Shuriken Monk Question

[Eddyjayman]

Sorry for the newb question. I have not seen any Shuriken builds updated or posted recently and I just started playing. I was wondering if Shuriken builds are still viable?

[Discpsycho]

Disclaimer: I've never actually played a thrower - I tend to TR rather than stick at cap and prefer melee

AFAIK, shuriken builds are the *only* viable thrower build at cap. They snowball similarly to shintao monks / tempests; all three have better attack speed and therefore increased benefit from sneak attack and other on-hit effects. I've seen several posts complaining that swashbuckling isn't working for various thrown weapons. Vistani has given throwing daggers a boost, but I rather doubt those measure up to Shuriken Expertise + Ninja Spy Core #2

One thing I can't tell you definitively is what level split would be best. My gut says something like Monk 14 / Fighter 6:
- 40-ish points in Ninja Spy for +2 crit range
- 8 points in Stalwart Defender for +25 PRR/MRR
- Remainder of points in Kensai for +1 crit multiplier and various special attacks / MP boosts, or wherever else you'd like
- 14 levels of Monk to maximize 10k Stars benefit. You lose out on 30% doubleshot by not going pure monk, but you'll already have an average of almost three attacks per animation (http://ddowiki.com/page/Dexterity#Theoretical_maximum) from Shuriken Expertise + Ninja Spy Core #2, so my hunch is that the % bonus from Kensai Core #3's crit multiplier scales better at the top end. Also, you get a few more feats and a defensive stance
- 6 levels of Fighter for 4 extra feats (effectively 3; you'll want Grandmaster of Forms) and the extra tree options

[DrawingGuy]

Shuriken builds are certainly still viable. Their hay-day of extreme power may be over due to various nerfs, but that is not why you don't see them played that often anymore. The meta has really settled into a dichotomy: Casters to CC/Instakill and melees to capitalize on that as they're the best DPS. Ranged is actually not in a bad position at all, but as Ravenloft has brought do-everything golden age to DC casters in a game scene where you get one-shot without them, you don't need the safety of ranged when a caster is already making it safe.

That said, don't let that stop you. Not everyone has to meta-game, and the safety of ranged can certainly help - especially if you're new. I have been thinking about playing a shuri build again, and I've been asking myself about the Falconry tree. You still want to main stat DEX - 100 DEX is still your goal to guarantee 3 shuris per throw + extra shuris from doubleshot. Giving WIS all you can after that is boosting your RP during 10k stars along with your WILL saves and AC a boost. Not to mention Falconry gives you a little extra CC and something to do other than auto attack and click 10k Stars.


Race - I'm not laying a build in stone, and most of the AP is taken by my split plan, so it would take racial PLs for it to really matter. Elf has the advantage of accuracy, Dex bonuses, and a Displacement clicky with dragonmark (currently broken until next patch). Halfling has SA bonuses and being smaller, has a big advantage with IPS attacks. Aasimar has self healing, heal amp, and the ability to vuln stack (assuming you can afford it). Human comes with a free feat, extra skill points, and heal amp in their tree. I personally favor Halfling for throwers.


Starting Stats (depending on race, these may be +/- 2)
Str - 8
Dex - 18 (plus all level-ups)
Con - 16
Int - 8
Wis - 16
Cha - 8

Subtract from CON and put into STR if you plan on Power Attack and don't have tomes. Subtract from CON if you don't have a 36 point build.


Feats

Level 1 : Point Blank Shot
Level 1(M):Shuriken Expertise
Level 2(M): Precision (or Power Attack)
Level 3 : Sneak of Shadows (Dragonmark if you're halfling or elf)
Level 6 : Precise Shot
Level 6(M):10K Stars
Level 9 : Rapid Shot
Level 12 : Improved Critical
Level 15 : Improved Precise Shot
Level 18 : Completionist (Sneak of Shadows if you didn't take it earlier, Deflect Arrows if you have no PLs)
Level 21 : Combat Archery
Level 24 : Overwhelming Critical
Level 26 : Epic Skill Focus Hide *or* Pierce Byeshk *or* Holy Strike (if you ever change gear to not have ghostly) *or* toughness
Level 27 : Blinding Speed
Level 28 : Doubleshot
Level 29 : Harbinger of Chaos
Level 30 : Improved Martial Arts
Level 30 : Scion of the Ethereal Plane


Enhancements

Ninja Spy: 41 AP
Basic Ninja Training
Advanced Ninja Training
Shadow Veil
Diversion
Ninja Master
Impending Doom
Stealthy 3/3
Sneak Attack Training 4/4
Acrobatic 3/3
Poison Exploit
Agility 3/3
Poisoned Soul
Sting of the Ninja
Dexterity 2/2
Wave of Despair
No Mercy 3/3
Deadly Striker

Falconry: 23 AP
Summon Avian Companion
Dexterity
Well Rounded I
Rugged 1/3
Out in Nature 3/3
Watch the Center 3/3
Diving Attack 1/3
Sprint Boost 3/3
Strike for the Eyes 1/3
Conditioning
Eyes of the Eagle
Deadly Instinct 3/3

Henshin: 11 AP
Riddle of Fire
Ki Bolt
Sounding Staff
Negotiator 3/3
Way of the Patient Tortoise
Contemplation 3/3

This does leave 5 AP left over. How this is spent will depend if you need to spend any on racials. You could also pull AP from Henshin and manually take the Quick Draw feat, though 8 AP is part of how you can afford to use 10k Stars and Veil without melee... and 3 AP more to get the feat (not to mention 6 more PRR) is well spent. If you mix in melee, then you could potentially dump the entire tree, though my feat layout is not accounting for hybrid builds. Assuming you are not spending any on racials, this is how I'd spend the remaining 5 AP:

Shintao: 1 AP
Bastion of Purity

Falconry: 4 AP (27 total)
Dexterity
Coordinated Strike
Expose Weakness


Gear

Goggles: Cannith Crafted - Seeker 15, Accuracy 23, Insightful Ins WIS 7
Helmet: Wind Howler Mask - Insightful DEX 9, Relentless Fury, Doubleshot 12, Tendon Slice 16%
Necklace: Fleetfoot Necklace (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Fleetfoot_Necklace)
Trinket: Echo of Ravenkind (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Echo_of_Ravenkind)
Cloak: Legendary Shadowhail Cloak (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Shadowhail_Cloak)
Belt: Braided Cutcord (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Braided_Cutcord)
Gloves: Molten Silver Gauntlets (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Molten_Silver_Gauntlets)
Boots: Slave Lords Crafted - Sheltering 45 (or False Life 68 if MRR is capped), Devotion 185 (or Resistance 14), Concentration 22, Quality WIS 4 (or Qual CON 4)
Bracers: Legendary Bracers of the Fallen Hero (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Bracers_of_the_Fallen_Hero)
Ring 1: Ring of the Silver Tongue (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Ring_of_the_Silver_Tongue)
Ring 2: Ring of Nightfall (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Ring_of_Nightfall)
Armor: Legendary Disciple of the Dawn (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Disciple_of_the_Dawn)

Weapon 1: Spite, the Fractured Shards (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Spite,_the_Fractured_Shards)
Weapon 2: Celestia, Brightest Star of Day (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Celestia,_Brightest_Star_of_Day)

(for heal amp) Weapon 2: LGS Triple Positive Heal Amp 30/50/70


Note that this setup is pretty raid gear heavy. Shadow's Footsteps, Crumbling Gloves, Executioner's Helm, Cannith Crafted trinket, and Band of Insightful Commands are good fill-ins while you farm the raid gear.

[mikarddo]

Posted 10 days ago :)

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/499825-Monk-Ranger-shuriken-build

[supps2]

@DrawingGuy - it looks like you need to be character level 28 to take Doubleshot or that's how it appears to be on the character planner.

[LOOON375]

They are very viable

[DrawingGuy]

@DrawingGuy - it looks like you need to be character level 28 to take Doubleshot or that's how it appears to be on the character planner.

That's what I get for not using a planner myself and not actually playing the build yet. That really makes what you take at 26 pretty meh. Updated my post and listed a few options.

[DevHead]

Sorry for the newb question. I have not seen any Shuriken builds updated or posted recently and I just started playing. I was wondering if Shuriken builds are still viable?

Any build is viable if you're brave enough. :)

But really, if you wanna chuck stars and do well in end game you certainly can. Mine is a pure monk and does well in high reaper stuff; she certainly can't tank but the DPS is really high. I have no issues soloing stuff on Elite, but Reaper gets a lot tricker; I prefer to have a meatshield.

[Emerge2012]

Shuriken builds are viable but still pretty meh at the same time. And I mean this for level 30 with high end gear. Below that they're actually quite weak.