Kind of a Big Deal cannot be completed if you fireball web.

[Tilomere]

There is a web blocking access to last area you cannot return from. The web is only supposed to break if you have killed everything outside, and doesn't break to melee until it is supposed to, but it breaks to AoE fire spells before it is supposed to.

If you fireball the web and go in the cave before you finish the required kill everything outside, you end up with a quest that cannot be completed.

[kain741]

If you fireball the web and go in the cave before you finish the required kill everything outside, you end up with a quest that cannot be completed.

I would suggest not fireballing the web then or if you do just don't go down until you've completed your objectives. It should be possible to fail a quest if you do it incorrectly.

[Cordovan]

We will have to get in a fix for this, sorry about that. In the meantime, yup, don't fireball it.

[redoubt]

I would suggest not fireballing the web then or if you do just don't go down until you've completed your objectives. It should be possible to fail a quest if you do it incorrectly.

Yes it should be possible to fail a quest by doing it wrong, but not because you destroyed a web with fire.

Fire destroys webs. If you can destroy the web and go, then you should be able to complete that way. There are far too many places in this game where "kill all, then..." exists.

Yes, I know the devs don't want it that way, but some of us who have been here longer than most, if not all the, devs remember when it wasn't so heavily leaned in the "kill all to proceed" way.

[HastyPudding]

What about the problem that, when you first transform into the huge version of yourself, you sometimes get stuck in the room behind the kobold statues? I've had that happen to me, twice, and needed to use the /stuck command to get free.

[Saekee]

We will have to get in a fix for this, sorry about that. In the meantime, yup, don't fireball it.
I hope the flaming sphere does not do this too...

[Yamani]

You can also fall out of the map when you become a giant.

[FlavoredSoul]

I would suggest not fireballing the web then or if you do just don't go down until you've completed your objectives. It should be possible to fail a quest if you do it incorrectly.

Well I agree there should be ways to fail quests if you really mess up it should always be very clear that there is a failure state in play.

This situation is a bug and makes no logical sense as to why it would fail the quest, therefore it is a problem that must be fixed.

[janave]

Global fix forever => Just stop adding `kill to progress` into your dungeon designs, seriously, it's an archaic element from pre 2000. There are graceful, modern and cool ways to set the pace and control the flow of a quest, "kill {x} gating to proceed" is just lame in an instance based game.

It is not different from the fetch 10 fox skins found in other MMOs.

[kain741]

Yes it should be possible to fail a quest by doing it wrong, but not because you destroyed a web with fire.

If I understood the OP correctly, breaking the web did not fail the quest. It was proceeding forward instead of pursuing the objective. You may have a fair argument that having a kill all is not appropriate, but it is the objective in this case so not a valid argument. If you hit a web with fire it should disappear...that does not mean you should go down the path. I think the issue is we are accustomed to having a control is place that doesn't let us fail; while we differ in opinion if that is required it does not mean that is must be.

[pjw]

We will have to get in a fix for this, sorry about that. In the meantime, yup, don't fireball it.

Please DON"T fix the quest; fix the design so that an appropriate solution to a problem is a valid way of advancing. I'm really REALLY tired of doors that only open after I kill the last foozle.

[glmfw1]

Please DON"T fix the quest; fix the design so that an appropriate solution to a problem is a valid way of advancing. I'm really REALLY tired of doors that only open after I kill the last foozle.

I used this as a real world security measure. Now when people come to my house, they need to kill 20 neighbourhood cats and 3 wandering pedestrians before the front door opens.

[Phototoxin]

I used this as a real world security measure. Now when people come to my house, they need to kill 20 neighbourhood cats and 3 wandering pedestrians before the front door opens.

But how many cat spleens do you need and what is the drop rate ?

[fmalfeas]

Please DON"T fix the quest; fix the design so that an appropriate solution to a problem is a valid way of advancing. I'm really REALLY tired of doors that only open after I kill the last foozle.

Sadly, I think the 'kill all to proceed' is a response to the server strain from tons of people zerging, training most of the dungeon behind them. So they started making more use of that kind of mechanic to put an end to that, rather than leashing everything.

[redoubt]

If I understood the OP correctly, breaking the web did not fail the quest. It was proceeding forward instead of pursuing the objective. You may have a fair argument that having a kill all is not appropriate, but it is the objective in this case so not a valid argument. If you hit a web with fire it should disappear...that does not mean you should go down the path. I think the issue is we are accustomed to having a control is place that doesn't let us fail; while we differ in opinion if that is required it does not mean that is must be.

I think you are correct that most are expecting the game to pigeon hole you and not let you bug it out. You are also correct that the devs designed it such that you have a "kill all to progress" objective. Thus you must...

At the same time, the goal of that quest is to recover an artifact. Now I don't care if you want to wantonly slaughter kobolds before proceeding, but what is the reason for forcing that? Even if you said giant kobolds are raiding the city, recovering the artifact would cause them to shrink back and also prevent them from raiding the city... My concern is less that there is a bug about the firewall and more about the repetition of this mechanic.

[redoubt]

Sadly, I think the 'kill all to proceed' is a response to the server strain from tons of people zerging, training most of the dungeon behind them. So they started making more use of that kind of mechanic to put an end to that, rather than leashing everything.

I think you are correct. But instead of making "kill all to progress" the default, fix it other ways. One way is used in Sealed in Amber. If you have too many mobs agro'd, doors which you could normally open, will not open. To go along with this, aggro spreading and DA thresholds would need to be looked at.

[rfachini]

I found another instance where it wouldn't break. Cleric with greatsword and falcon and the web seemed to break but then I popped back and the web popped up.This happened repeatedly. Used divine punishment and falcon area attacks on the spider. Could be related to these or maybe I left a kobold alive down there somewhere?

[AbyssalMage]

Global fix forever => Just stop adding `kill to progress` into your dungeon designs, seriously, it's an archaic element from pre 2000. There are graceful, modern and cool ways to set the pace and control the flow of a quest, "kill {x} gating to proceed" is just lame in an instance based game.

It is not different from the fetch 10 fox skins found in other MMOs.


I used this as a real world security measure. Now when people come to my house, they need to kill 20 neighbourhood cats and 3 wandering pedestrians before the front door opens.


But how many cat spleens do you need and what is the drop rate ?

This is what the developers need to see :)

Because you know they will invariably make the drop rate too small.

[AbyssalMage]

I think you are correct. But instead of making "kill all to progress" the default, fix it other ways. One way is used in Sealed in Amber. If you have too many mobs agro'd, doors which you could normally open, will not . To go along with this, aggro spreading and DA thresholds would need to be looked at.
No using logic. Kill everything like a Barbarian. Using sneak/tactics (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/497769-Question-for-the-Devs-Why-isn-t-Stealth-Supported-in-Reaper) in a quest is frowned upon. How else is SSG going to kill your character?

And yes, running faster than your enemy, or at least faster than the slowest person, is a viable real world strategy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwcQ8TXbYeA

[gustav2121]

There is a web blocking access to last area you cannot return from. The web is only supposed to break if you have killed everything outside, and doesn't break to melee until it is supposed to, but it breaks to AoE fire spells before it is supposed to.

If you fireball the web and go in the cave before you finish the required kill everything outside, you end up with a quest that cannot be completed.

I have had this problem too I was on an aura lock (acid based) I killed the spider where it spawned so nowhere near the cave entrance. Once I killed it I went up to the cave entrance and there was a web over the entrance you could batter it down but it re-
spawned again after a couple of seconds.

[Razor_Wit]

So I just looted my end chest and I'm missing an objective that says "Defeat the Kobold Patrols". I have killed everything in the place except an inactive kobold (was tossing the boulders from up high) who can't be killed. Perhaps I missed one and no way to return once I've been gigantized??

I know that the only mobs I did NOT kill before being enlarged were the kobold throwers who were in the dart trap area- I just ran through there. They were not present once enlarged. Putting in ticket now, we'll see.*sigh*

edit: waited 20 min for GM and just left without the xp.

[Cantor]

That objective is for the kobolds outside, I just make sure that the objective is met before I enter the cave. It's easy to miss a kobold or two in the entry area.

[Drecas]

I have had this problem too I was on an aura lock (acid based) I killed the spider where it spawned so nowhere near the cave entrance. Once I killed it I went up to the cave entrance and there was a web over the entrance you could batter it down but it re-
spawned again after a couple of seconds.

I had this same thing happen to me. Turns out I had missed a group of wolves hiding near the gate. Once they were dead, the web disappeared.

[SpartanKiller13]

I found another instance where it wouldn't break. Cleric with greatsword and falcon and the web seemed to break but then I popped back and the web popped up.This happened repeatedly. Used divine punishment and falcon area attacks on the spider. Could be related to these or maybe I left a kobold alive down there somewhere?


I had this same thing happen to me. Turns out I had missed a group of wolves hiding near the gate. Once they were dead, the web disappeared.

I also had this issue; the web would rubberband me back through it after I sliced it, until I searched the open area again and found a few wolves - I think you "have" to clear the first optional before progressing, which is causing an issue because fireball currently allows you to progress without finishing said first optional.

[Razor_Wit]

That objective is for the kobolds outside, I just make sure that the objective is met before I enter the cave. It's easy to miss a kobold or two in the entry area.

So once you enter the cave there is no way to return and kill the patrols (wolves) I most likely missed at the start? I was giant'ish and re-ran every foot of the map with no way to return outside cave that i could tell.

edit: I'm almost certain I did not burn the web before the spider was killed-but I am firing a repeater while using a runearm that does fire damage. Possibly the bolts triggered it?

[HAL]

It should be possible to fail a quest if you do it incorrectly.

I disagree. It should be possible to not complete, which is a different story. If you fail to kill all mobs in an area where you are supposed to kill all mobs, the quest doesn't progress. This is different than the quest becoming incompletable so that you have to start over.

[Xanthrawl]

If I understood the OP correctly, breaking the web did not fail the quest. It was proceeding forward instead of pursuing the objective. You may have a fair argument that having a kill all is not appropriate, but it is the objective in this case so not a valid argument. If you hit a web with fire it should disappear...that does not mean you should go down the path. I think the issue is we are accustomed to having a control is place that doesn't let us fail; while we differ in opinion if that is required it does not mean that is must be.

I would have agreed with you 10 years ago. Now? After they changed VoN2 so falling off is no longer a fail? After they have changed multiple escort quests to not fail on death of the escort? They are clearly sending the message to the player base that if your character is alive, you should have the opportunity to succeed.

If they want to bring back some failure elements, I am ok with that. IF that failure condition is clearly outlined (and if it's an escort, make sure they aren't useless.) To have a new failure condition that you have no real way of knowing exists is bad design. If it makes you feel more immersed, that's fantastic. It makes me feel like I wasted my time and money.

That's like making breakables give you bonus XP in every quest but 1, where it fails the quest. What's that? They did that too? Oh...

[Sunnie]

That's like making breakables give you bonus XP in every quest but 1, where it fails the quest. What's that? They did that too? Oh...
In that quest you're clearly told NOT to break the sarcophagi, and there's a note in the objective window thingy that says FAILURE. So pretty clear. It also teaches new players about glancing blows and that enemy attacks can break breakables.

[glmfw1]

But how many cat spleens do you need and what is the drop rate ?

You can trade 6 cat spleens for a burger or a hot dog from the guy at the BBQ in the back garden. He even has a chest with treasure (well, cold beer) next to him. Only problem is you need to kill about 100 cats to guarantee getting a spleen drop.

[nokowi]

To have a new failure condition that you have no real way of knowing exists is bad design. If it makes you feel more immersed, that's fantastic. It makes me feel like I wasted my time and money.

Now you all have a small taste of what the stealth/agro system is like (nothing but nonsensical failure conditions).

Formerly engaging (rewarding skilled play and optimization choices) and now ... making you feel like you wasted your time and money.

I hope this type of design has been as fun for you all as it has been for those using stealth.

Here's to you not having to wait 2 years for a fix...

[Gywiden]

I have had this problem too I was on an aura lock (acid based) I killed the spider where it spawned so nowhere near the cave entrance. Once I killed it I went up to the cave entrance and there was a web over the entrance you could batter it down but it re-
spawned again after a couple of seconds.

I had this happen and I didn't even to anything abnormal. I just walked up to the spider and had a melee fight. When went up to progress, I couldn't because the web was still there and it wouldn't let you through even if you destroyed it. It just respawned.