Tokens of the Twleve

[TerysDethswind]

None of the new content has epic chests with tokens of the twelve in them, even the newest quests that are taken in (and give favor for) the Twelve. I know it is not difficult to farm tokens of the twelve for a TR, but I do not understand why the avoidance of making some of the new quests have them as well. It seems more fun than farming.

[thedip]

I was thinking this as well - why no fragments and tokens?

[GeoffWatson]

The devs wanted to remove Tokens altogether, so players would have to buy hearts of wood from the store, but that got a strong player backlash.

So they settled on not adding them to any new quests.
At the time, all of the new quests were in FR, so they justified this by changing the Epic Tokens to Tokens of the Twelve, saying that they were an Eberron only thing.

[Revolted]

Yeah, no quest post-MotU drops tokens of the twelve. It is a shame, as the Devs used the excuse for them to not drop on FR quests that they were an Eberron drop, but most Eberron epics nowadays don't drop it...

[NoobCake]

Step 1) Transform the game into an endless string of reincarnations as if it was a Cookie Clicker Cnockoff.
Step 2) Try to get players to pay real money and/or grind the crud out of quests for favor on every single ascension.
Step 3) ???
Step 4) Profit!!!

This is clearly a winner's formula that must be making them boatloads of money instead of driving off noninsane players. They should keep at it.

[glmfw1]

I figure people will play more if there are more options to achieve the same goals.
People CAN buy hearts in the store, but I prefer paying my monthly VIP sub and using my points for items that help me play the game (augments etc and occasional gold seal hirelings when a Rogue is needed and noone is a Rogue). If I buy DDO points directly, it's because I want to get something specific that can't be obtained by other means (e.g. use points to buy AS to buy ship upgrades; cosmetics; spirit cake supplies).
Running the same quests over and over to get my tokens gets boring, so the lack of fragment/token drops in Eberron based quests makes me play less (I'll go off and watch TV before braving DA a second time) rather than more. At the price that hearts are, that's a lot of 100 favor rewards per heart assuming the points are saved up and not used for other things.
Adding tokens to other Eberron quests would improve the game for many, and increased playing is likely to result in increased spending on things within the game on other things.

[GramercyRiff]

Wow, I wasn't aware of this blatant dishonesty. I wasn't playing the game back then.

lol actually thinking that people would buy hearts of wood with every TR lol my sides.

How petty too...we'll show them tokens just won't drop in any new quest...

[SpartanKiller13]

Running the same quests over and over to get my tokens gets boring, so the lack of fragment/token drops in Eberron based quests makes me play less (I'll go off and watch TV before braving DA a second time) rather than more.

To be fair, you totally can watch TV while running DA. And with a full pike & pass you can farm out a heart in under an hour, which is IMO hilariously good return on investment if you don't feel like spending $$.


Wow, I wasn't aware of this blatant dishonesty. I wasn't playing the game back then.

lol actually thinking that people would buy hearts of wood with every TR lol my sides.

How petty too...we'll show them tokens just won't drop in any new quest...

*scrutinizes your 2006 join date*

I don't think it's blatant dishonesty, there are still plenty of options; like they added Heart Seeds etc. I think it's totally fair by them to not choose to add every old system to every new pack, and if you want the old stuff you totally can run older content :) I run DA at least a time or three per month lol.

[GramercyRiff]

To be fair, you totally can watch TV while running DA. And with a full pike & pass you can farm out a heart in under an hour, which is IMO hilariously good return on investment if you don't feel like spending $$.



*scrutinizes your 2006 join date*

I don't think it's blatant dishonesty, there are still plenty of options; like they added Heart Seeds etc. I think it's totally fair by them to not choose to add every old system to every new pack, and if you want the old stuff you totally can run older content :) I run DA at least a time or three per month lol.

I quit playing before reincarnation was even a thing because of blatant dishonesty from Turbine. Terrible dishonest customer service drove me away. I came back to give them another shot years later and found a completely different much better game with vastly improved customer service. So I'm still here.

oh and yeah the Heart Seeds was/is a great thing. These are the kinds of moves that encourage and strengthen customer loyalty.

[Amundir]

Given that there are some decent augments you can get for turning in the tokens of the twelve, I really wish it would be reconsidered that more eberron 20+ content gave out tokens.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Augment_Slot/Purchasable_Augments#Lahar.2C_Epic_Trader_.28selec t_augments_ML_4-20.29

Heavy Fort augment is nice to have at lv 8 and is better at level vs what you can craft.
The first 4 Topaz are nice for slotting gear so you don't have to swap so often.

I'm trying to make some gear sets, so I'm acutely aware that I'm going to be farming these a lot once I reach 20 again to get the augments I want.

[ValariusK]

Biggest issue as I see it is that tokens of the twelve increase the gravity for a set of quests that are already heavily overplayed as it is, that is, Dailies
Von3/Von4/Spies/Wiz King/OOB
What do these 5 quests all have in common? All are very common dailies with some of the best XP/Minute and they're all token quests (wiz king in particular is a good token/minute quest if you have a group that can do all towers simultaneously and even better if you get a pass or two from the others in group.
Adding tokens to some more quests would increase the diversity of what gets run in epics.

[Cantor]

Biggest issue as I see it is that tokens of the twelve increase the gravity for a set of quests that are already heavily overplayed as it is, that is, Dailies
Von3/Von4/Spies/Wiz King/OOB
What do these 5 quests all have in common? All are very common dailies with some of the best XP/Minute and they're all token quests (wiz king in particular is a good token/minute quest if you have a group that can do all towers simultaneously and even better if you get a pass or two from the others in group.
Adding tokens to some more quests would increase the diversity of what gets run in epics.

I've noted this before too.

[Yamani]

To be fair, you totally can watch TV while running DA. And with a full pike & pass you can farm out a heart in under an hour, which is IMO hilariously good return on investment if you don't feel like spending $$.



Or get a full group and run EE BoB, less then 3 min runs, and get a full heart in 10 minutes.

[CSQ]

None of the new content has epic chests with tokens of the twelve in them, even the newest quests that are taken in (and give favor for) the Twelve. I know it is not difficult to farm tokens of the twelve for a TR, but I do not understand why the avoidance of making some of the new quests have them as well. It seems more fun than farming.

This is a bit jarring and annoying. It's like the developers want people to just run the same quests at level 20 to get their tokens to TR with or something, which isn't really helpful for encouraging people to enjoy all the content and not just DA pikes and token farms for people who don't plan on playing epic lives at the moment. Oh well, at least, like you said, it's not hard to get tokens, it's just not fun anymore.

[SpartanKiller13]

Biggest issue as I see it is that tokens of the twelve increase the gravity for a set of quests that are already heavily overplayed as it is, that is, Dailies
Von3/Von4/Spies/Wiz King/OOB
What do these 5 quests all have in common? All are very common dailies with some of the best XP/Minute and they're all token quests (wiz king in particular is a good token/minute quest if you have a group that can do all towers simultaneously and even better if you get a pass or two from the others in group.
Adding tokens to some more quests would increase the diversity of what gets run in epics.

Pretty sure the only reason they're dailies is XP/minute. You'll also see stuff like Mirror/WGU on dailies and they're not token quests.

Adding tokens to a terrible XP/minute quest wouldn't make me add it to my dailies, and removing them from any of the current dailies wouldn't cause me to stop. YMMV.


Or get a full group and run EE BoB, less then 3 min runs, and get a full heart in 10 minutes.

Can't do that on my level 20 trash toon while watching TV at 3AM though XD. Either way, my point is made. (Although I could probably solo it in like 5 minutes on EE with a trash toon so there's that).

Also I don't have to wait for a group, it's easily available (Market vs Searing Heights), and it's a great way to chat while getting stuff done.

[Aelonwy]

Adding Tokens of the Twelve drops to newer epic Eberron content would also give that content added value making it more likely for players to advocate buying epic packs that have already been deprecated by the power creep.

I would also like for them to do this for the consistency.

[Gywiden]

I run Devil Assault on EN daily because you get 1-2 full tokens and great xp. It's also an opportunity to get a regular Shard of Power which can be disjuncted and made a BTC craftable trinket. I regularly see lots of people at the door to that quest. I never see this with other quests. It's sad really.

[Pyed-Pyper]

Adding Tokens of the Twelve drops to newer epic Eberron content would also give that content added value making it more likely for players to advocate buying epic packs that have already been deprecated by the power creep.

I would also like for them to do this for the consistency.

+1

[goldgolem]

I found a completely different much better game with vastly improved customer service.

What game is that? Id love to give it a go!

[Iriale]

Adding Tokens of the Twelve drops to newer epic Eberron content would also give that content added value making it more likely for players to advocate buying epic packs that have already been deprecated by the power creep.

I would also like for them to do this for the consistency.
+1. I agree with you, but I also believe that SSG will ignore this issue and we will not see more quests dropping tokens

[Aelonwy]

+1. I agree with you, but I also believe that SSG will ignore this issue and we will not see more quests dropping tokens

While I think Turbine would absolutely ignore this issue, from what I've seen so far (barring CS issues which are still a problem) it seems to me that SSG is a little more receptive to their players suggestions and concerns so IMHO there might be the barest possibility of them changing their mind on this topic.

Or maybe I'm being too optimistic?

[Qhualor]

its an obvious design decision. its not like SSG forgot to add tokens to these quests. I know what their stance on it was during Producer Glins reign, but curious what Sevs stance is on it now.

[PsychoBlonde]

The devs wanted to remove Tokens altogether, so players would have to buy hearts of wood from the store, but that got a strong player backlash.

This is not true.

They wanted to remove tokens and put all hearts on the COMMENDATIONS OF VALOR system, NOT force people to buy hearts in the DDO store. There WAS a backlash against that because it takes enough comms of valor to get a heart (4200) that you'd pretty much have to level to cap running quests to get enough of them (keep in mind you only get comms for the NON-ransacked runs on a quest, so you can't repeat-farm fast quests to get them). Plus, then, you'd also want an EPIC heart, so that's another 4200 comms you need to reincarnate. Also, comms of valor are bound to character--before the introduction of heart seeds it would then be impossible to earn a heart on one character and pass it to another.

So, yeah, most players were not happy with the idea at all, hence why we still have tokens for heroic hearts.

I suspect the reason they haven't added more quests with tokens is that the system for dropping fragments and tokens is actually pretty difficult to hook up, and quite a few of the newer epic Eberron quests have independent ingredients systems.

But, yeah, the four new quests are prime material for adding new sources for tokens of the twelve. They're even IN the twelve.

[Fedora1]

I think it's totally fair by them to not choose to add every old system to every new pack,

Heroic TR is still part of the CURRENT system, not old.

[Selvera]

It would be nice if they added tokens to more quests; even if they only drop the token in the chest and not the chance of a fragment to each party member every time a mob is killed. (If that is the complicated part that's making devs not want to add it to new quests).

I know that my dailies have to include a lot of the LoD/VoN/Sands quests because they drop tokens. Mirror and WGU do because they're fun and still give good xp.

Of course; I use the term "dailies" very loosely. I rarely run a set of quests on a daily basis; and usually don't run said quests when I'm above level 22 unless I realize that I need to farm more tokens.

[EllisDee37]

Heroic TR is still part of the CURRENT system, not old.Not just current, tokens of the twelve are the currency used for a new system: racial reincarnation.

[Nonesuch2008]

I don't think it's a matter of SSG trying to gouge players, it's more likely that the token system is viewed as being a mature process & therefore not in need of any work when compared to other needs.

Still, it would be nice from a lore standpoint to have more Twelve related quests drop tokens & fragments. From a personal standpoint, I would enjoy more choices of content for obtaining tokens. The sandbox that we have now isn't really all that big after you've gone through a few repetitions.

There was also a relatively recent thread on adding sources for Tokens in the Suggestions forum:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/496711-Please-consider-adding-Tokens-of-the-Twelve-to

[Yamani]

I don't think it's a matter of SSG trying to gouge players, it's more likely that the token system is viewed as being a mature process & therefore not in need of any work when compared to other needs.

Still, it would be nice from a lore standpoint to have more Twelve related quests drop tokens & fragments. From a personal standpoint, I would enjoy more choices of content for obtaining tokens. The sandbox that we have now isn't really all that big after you've gone through a few repetitions.

There was also a relatively recent thread on adding sources for Tokens in the Suggestions forum:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/496711-Please-consider-adding-Tokens-of-the-Twelve-to

Truthfully the only quests I care about dropping tokens that don't are the ones that are lore-breaking the lore they created. They changed them to tokens of the twelve so they didn't have to put them into Forgotten realms. But here we now have 7 quests in eberron that are in the twelve, give favor for the twelve, and even some within the level range of old epics. These are the ones that annoy me cause they don't drop tokens.

[Aelonwy]

Truthfully the only quests I care about dropping tokens that don't are the ones that are lore-breaking the lore they created. They changed them to tokens of the twelve so they didn't have to put them into Forgotten realms. But here we now have 7 quests in eberron that are in the twelve, give favor for the twelve, and even some within the level range of old epics. These are the ones that annoy me cause they don't drop tokens.

In an OCD sort of way this really bugs me too.

[Fedora1]

it's more likely that the token system is viewed as being a mature process & therefore not in need of any work when compared to other needs.

Except that this "mature process" is waaaaay more important in the current game than it was back when it was implemented. Since TR'ing is pretty much the de facto standard nowadays, they really should include tokens/fragments in all of the newer applicable (Eberron) content.

[mr420247]

Literally farming 100s of seeds daily now with nothing at all to spend them on

All they need to do is update the seed list for tr n racial hearts and other useful things

[Gywiden]

Literally farming 100s of seeds daily now with nothing at all to spend them on

All they need to do is update the seed list for tr n racial hearts and other useful things

This would be a fantastic solution. I'd rather spend heart seeds on all hearts of wood and reserve tokens for augment trade-in.

[droid327]

its an obvious design decision. its not like SSG forgot to add tokens to these quests. I know what their stance on it was during Producer Glins reign, but curious what Sevs stance is on it now.

Yes it seems completely antithetical to the current design philosophy of the game if they're still holding onto that "we want TRing to cost RWM" justification. TRing is a, if not *the*, core mechanic of the game. It simply wouldnt be F2P anymore if they moved away from earning TRs through regular gameplay.

And if they're not planning on eventually moving away from it, then there's no real reason not to continue to support it in new content. As soon as they introduced Racial TRs, they should've started adding in more Token drops.

[glmfw1]

I suspect the reason they haven't added more quests with tokens is that the system for dropping fragments and tokens is actually pretty difficult to hook up, and quite a few of the newer epic Eberron quests have independent ingredients systems.


This shouldn't be a barrier to adding tokens or fixed numbers of fragments into the loot list for the end chests of quests, even if they didn't drop with kills throughout.