New Shard/Seal/Scroll Type System Coming?

[Annex]

So, in one of the threads concerning Blackrazor, The Almost Great Sword, Darth Severlin wrote the following:


The plan is to have future content where the weapons can be upgraded. While we want these weapons to ultimately be really good, we don't want a normal quest to drop weapons that are too good out of the gate.

Sev~

Me thinks that comment opens the door to a lot of interesting possibilities.

If the developers spend time building a system to upgrade Blackrazor, Wave, and Welm, it seems logical to presume it could encompass other weapons as well. If so, is another Shard/Seal/Scroll type system in the works? Will it only work at L30? Will it invigorate L30 play? Will L20 Shard/Seal/Scroll stuff also get an overhaul? Does anyone care? Cheer? Panic? Is Sophie in the Catnip again?

[GramercyRiff]

Definitely intriguing, but hopefully the upgrades won't be solely tied to raids. I understand plenty of people like raiding. I'm ok with the best possible stuff coming from raids; just I'm ok with never acquiring those things. I'd hope you can upgrade something to a certain point without having to raid though.

[Grace_ana]

I dislike this plan. The game has enough grind as it is. It's really hard right now for those of us that like to play alts to have fun, and if items become a neverending grind too, it will kill the game for us. The devs should seriously reconsider this.

[AbyssalMage]

If the developers spend time building a system to upgrade Blackrazor, Wave, and Welm, it seems logical to presume it could encompass other weapons as well. If so, is another Shard/Seal/Scroll type system in the works?
I doubt it will be an S/S/S system (although I could be totally wrong). It will probably closer to Abbot, FoT, CitW, ect. style. The community is/was very much against S/S/S but have been fairly receptive to: Item + (generic collectable inside raid) = upgrade. Again I could be wrong but that is where I would place "My bet."


Will it only work at L30?
Of course! Well, more precisely, "Legendary" because it will be a raid that will be level 31+


Will it invigorate L30 play?
Hahahahahahaha


Will L20 Shard/Seal/Scroll stuff also get an overhaul? Does anyone care?
Considering they are doing Carnival for this update (U39). generally speaking, nerfing the heroic items by giving them an extra level and completely ignoring the Epic versions....probably not. Yes I do care. They should have focused their time on the Epic Carnival and left the Heroic stuff alone. Or more precisely, spent 90% of their time on the Epic stuff and 10% of their time on the Heroic stuff.


Cheer? Panic? Is Sophie in the Catnip again?
Meh. Sorry, that is my emotion about it.

[Aelonwy]

They keep adding new grinds and monetizing ways to ease, speed up or circumnavigate the grinds. I'm sick of grinds... and I just barely participate in them as-is. You do what you find fun... *shrugs* I'm going to continue to play for fun casually and glacially slowly developing my characters. Yes that was plural because I still play 13 characters. Good luck and best of loot to you.

[Cantor]

So, in one of the threads concerning Blackrazor, The Almost Great Sword, Darth Severlin wrote the following:



Me thinks that comment opens the door to a lot of interesting possibilities.

If the developers spend time building a system to upgrade Blackrazor, Wave, and Welm, it seems logical to presume it could encompass other weapons as well. If so, is another Shard/Seal/Scroll type system in the works? Will it only work at L30? Will it invigorate L30 play? Will L20 Shard/Seal/Scroll stuff also get an overhaul? Does anyone care? Cheer? Panic? Is Sophie in the Catnip again?

I like incremental upgrades like toee weapons, they just missed the drop rates there. Something with as many tiers as tf but not so many options with toee variance in ingredients would be what I'd like.

[glmfw1]

I doubt it will be an S/S/S system (although I could be totally wrong). It will probably closer to Abbot, FoT, CitW, ect. style. The community is/was very much against S/S/S but have been fairly receptive to: Item + (generic collectable inside raid) = upgrade. Again I could be wrong but that is where I would place "My bet."
I like the S/S/S mechanic more than the "run the raid X times" mechanic. While the S drop rates are pretty good though, and they can be traded, I do think S and S drop rates need to be improved a bit. As it is, you get a base item easily, the S drops in a quest (or a friend can give you it), then you run end quests and raids over and over with minimal S or S drops, let alone the ones you want. Keep the binding, but increase the drop rates a bit and people are more likely to run the quests (excessive grind is not fun when everything requires excessive grind.
Current S/S/S items can be upgraded to match (or just over-match) the current power curve and new S/S/S system can take things up to Legendary power. Then we can have fun collecting S/S/S/S/S/S to run all of our updates in one go. All we need now are 3 new S words for naming purposes!

[Chacka_DDO]

I like the S/S/S mechanic more than the "run the raid X times" mechanic. While the S drop rates are pretty good though, and they can be traded, I do think S and S drop rates need to be improved a bit. As it is, you get a base item easily, the S drops in a quest (or a friend can give you it), then you run end quests and raids over and over with minimal S or S drops, let alone the ones you want. Keep the binding, but increase the drop rates a bit and people are more likely to run the quests (excessive grind is not fun when everything requires excessive grind.
Current S/S/S items can be upgraded to match (or just over-match) the current power curve and new S/S/S system can take things up to Legendary power. Then we can have fun collecting S/S/S/S/S/S to run all of our updates in one go. All we need now are 3 new S words for naming purposes!

The old Shard/Seal/Scroll system is ok in my opinion but certainly not the best system, it would foremost need to have an exchange system for three to one so you can trade three shards, seals or scrolls for the one you need.
And the second is of course the epic items you get from shard seal and scrolls need and upgrade to bring them to the same power cannith crafting items provide (and not more).
I could live with a new shard/seal/scrol system if it includes an exchange system so you dont need too much luck to get exactly the items you want!

[TimtheGreat89]

So, in one of the threads concerning Blackrazor, The Almost Great Sword, Darth Severlin wrote the following:



Me thinks that comment opens the door to a lot of interesting possibilities.

If the developers spend time building a system to upgrade Blackrazor, Wave, and Welm, it seems logical to presume it could encompass other weapons as well. If so, is another Shard/Seal/Scroll type system in the works? Will it only work at L30? Will it invigorate L30 play? Will L20 Shard/Seal/Scroll stuff also get an overhaul? Does anyone care? Cheer? Panic? Is Sophie in the Catnip again?

I agree with what you're saying, if it would make easier drops for Seals/Scrolls/Shards on both raid and non-raid quests then I'm game. So, in all sense it's rather interesting.

[LightBear]

So, in one of the threads concerning Blackrazor, The Almost Great Sword, Darth Severlin wrote the following:


The plan is to have future content where the weapons can be upgraded. While we want these weapons to ultimately be really good, we don't want a normal quest to drop weapons that are too good out of the gate.

Sev~



That quote of Sev~ says nothing about a s/s/s system but points towards yet another crafting system because 17 just isn't enough. ;)

Who knows, maybe we finally are getting the much wanted take anything from a donor item and craft it onto any recipient item system.

[glmfw1]

The old Shard/Seal/Scroll system is ok in my opinion but certainly not the best system, it would foremost need to have an exchange system for three to one so you can trade three shards, seals or scrolls for the one you need.
And the second is of course the epic items you get from shard seal and scrolls need and upgrade to bring them to the same power cannith crafting items provide (and not more).
I could live with a new shard/seal/scrol system if it includes an exchange system so you dont need too much luck to get exactly the items you want!

I suspect that, at the time it was created, it was a system that made sense given the limited number of quests. It could definitely do with some tweaking to make it more viable in today's game. As Scrolls can be traded, a turn in of any 3 seals + the Scroll from the item you want to upgrade for the Seal of that item, and the same deal for Shards could work - making it easier to get the ones you need without making it too easy.

[janave]

S/S/S was a good system, exept for VoN (insane low drop rate) and Sands (insane low drop + too many items) gear. I could build items from all the other packs, including Chronoscope.

Hopefully the new system has no tie in for Reaper-anything.

[Cantor]

S/S/S was a good system, exept for VoN (insane low drop rate) and Sands (insane low drop + too many items) gear. I could build items from all the other packs, including Chronoscope.

Hopefully the new system has no tie in for Reaper-anything.

Totally agree. When people complain about S/S/S it's those two packs. Other packs are easy to build. I would love to see S/S/S at legendary.

I would make each S/S/S change one aspect of the item to build up the final item. This also means you don't have to have a full set to see something. As well as allowing low level upgrades. (S/S/S items replace the old item causing problems with rituals, mythic/reaper/ etc, this would be like the newer upgrade interface)

Examples with current stats:
EAGA:
the scroll makes it level 20 +6 with the 2(d20) die.
the seal upgrades the force and adds the colorless slot.
the shard adds righteous and the red slot.

The scroll which is tradable makes a good solid weapon. The seal is a minor upgrade. The shard adds DR breaking and a good slot. Or you could forgo the scroll and add DR breaking to the heroic version.

RoSS:
The scroll makes it ML 20 and upgrades to major mnemonic with one charge.
The seal adds a charge.
The shard adds a charge and augment.

You could have a 5 charge heroic version with the smaller clickie if you chose not to use the scroll. (the scroll alone would be a slight nerf for a capstoned arcanotech, but any 2 upgrades would be better even in that case)

[Alisonique]

I suspect that, at the time it was created, it was a system that made sense given the limited number of quests. It could definitely do with some tweaking to make it more viable in today's game. As Scrolls can be traded, a turn in of any 3 seals + the Scroll from the item you want to upgrade for the Seal of that item, and the same deal for Shards could work - making it easier to get the ones you need without making it too easy.
I like this idea.

[HungarianRhapsody]

I like the S/S/S mechanic more than the "run the raid X times" mechanic. While the S drop rates are pretty good though, and they can be traded, I do think S and S drop rates need to be improved a bit. As it is, you get a base item easily, the S drops in a quest (or a friend can give you it), then you run end quests and raids over and over with minimal S or S drops, let alone the ones you want. Keep the binding, but increase the drop rates a bit and people are more likely to run the quests (excessive grind is not fun when everything requires excessive grind.
Current S/S/S items can be upgraded to match (or just over-match) the current power curve and new S/S/S system can take things up to Legendary power. Then we can have fun collecting S/S/S/S/S/S to run all of our updates in one go. All we need now are 3 new S words for naming purposes!

I like the "run the raid X times" mechanic better because the S/S/S items that are actually worth having are pretty much universally insane to get your hands on for an item that you won't bother using for more than a couple of levels.

Having a significant grind for an end-game item makes sense. Having a significant grind for a level 20 item that you're going to replace at level 24 is just dumb.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Totally agree. When people complain about S/S/S it's those two packs. Other packs are easy to build. I would love to see S/S/S at legendary.

I would make each S/S/S change one aspect of the item to build up the final item. This also means you don't have to have a full set to see something. As well as allowing low level upgrades. (S/S/S items replace the old item causing problems with rituals, mythic/reaper/ etc, this would be like the newer upgrade interface)

Examples with current stats:
EAGA:
the scroll makes it level 20 +6 with the 2(d20) die.
the seal upgrades the force and adds the colorless slot.
the shard adds righteous and the red slot.

The scroll which is tradable makes a good solid weapon. The seal is a minor upgrade. The shard adds DR breaking and a good slot. Or you could forgo the scroll and add DR breaking to the heroic version.

RoSS:
The scroll makes it ML 20 and upgrades to major mnemonic with one charge.
The seal adds a charge.
The shard adds a charge and augment.

You could have a 5 charge heroic version with the smaller clickie if you chose not to use the scroll. (the scroll alone would be a slight nerf for a capstoned arcanotech, but any 2 upgrades would be better even in that case)

I like this idea, but it seems like a lot of work. Things that are a lot of work on old systems don't get done here.

Just having a system to trade any 3 seals for a different seal or any 3 shards for a different shard would fix the system with minimal work.

[Cantor]

I like this idea, but it seems like a lot of work. Things that are a lot of work on old systems don't get done here.

Just having a system to trade any 3 seals for a different seal or any 3 shards for a different shard would fix the system with minimal work.

I was looking at a new system for legendary level stuff building on the S/S/S model (I realize my example was old items though). I tried to model it on existing tech to limit the amount of work. This works like every upgrade system in the game other than the current S/S/S. I think it might be less work to do this than current S/S/S.

I agree for the level 20 stuff, they could just throw a trade system on it as a bandaid. But I think the main thing holding it back is those outliers like the RoSS. Most items would be no big deal to be easier to get, but that... They could tweak the numbers to the appropriate amount though. Like your regular junk item shards takes any 3, but the RoSS shard takes 25 or whatever. This has been discussed lots of times. And the easy way to ease the interface is to add an intermediate currency: any shard can be traded for a generic epic shard, then you just need XX epic shards for a shard of your choice. This means they don't have to code for each individual exchange possible and they could price according to the intended rarity.

[glmfw1]

I like the "run the raid X times" mechanic better because the S/S/S items that are actually worth having are pretty much universally insane to get your hands on for an item that you won't bother using for more than a couple of levels.
That's a problem with drop rate, rather than the mechanic itself.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

No, the tone the developers speak when talking about the shard, seal, scroll mechanic is not a romantic tone, but kind of a tone indicating a lack of satisfaction in the mechanic thus an indication that they've already abandoned any plans of ever using said mechanic ever again.

That being said, a mechanic comparable to the Caught In The Web raid item upgrades is much more realistic and likely what they will be doing, especially when considering Lynnabel's romanticism for her Mythic Pinion that she was able to upgrade!

It is likely that they will use said mechanic with a twist that includes an item in the equation that you can only get from the raid.

"Essence Of BlackRazor"+Commendations Of Heroism+Echo Of BlackRazor=Upgraded Blackrazor (Replacing attributes on the weapon rather than destroying weapon and making a new version with said attributes on it).

This fits in line perfectly with everything said and all that can be determined from reading inbetween the lines and so probability has it that this is most likely what they will be doing.

[HAL]

If the developers spend time building a system to upgrade Blackrazor, Wave, and Welm, it seems logical to presume it could encompass other weapons as well. If so, is another Shard/Seal/Scroll type system in the works? Will it only work at L30? Will it invigorate L30 play? Will L20 Shard/Seal/Scroll stuff also get an overhaul? Does anyone care? Cheer? Panic? Is Sophie in the Catnip again?

Oh gods, I hope not! But there are plenty of other weapon upgrading systems in the game without having to invoke the SSS system.

[Thrudh]

I like the "run the raid X times" mechanic better because the S/S/S items that are actually worth having are pretty much universally insane to get your hands on for an item that you won't bother using for more than a couple of levels.

Having a significant grind for an end-game item makes sense. Having a significant grind for a level 20 item that you're going to replace at level 24 is just dumb.

At the time, S/S/S items WERE end-game.

I liked that you didn't have to repeat the same quest over and over and over to get what you needed. In fact, they put in an 18 hour timer so you COULDN'T repeat the same quest over and over and over.

It was a decent system.

[janave]

At the time, S/S/S items WERE end-game.

I liked that you didn't have to repeat the same quest over and over and over to get what you needed. In fact, they put in an 18 hour timer so you COULDN'T repeat the same quest over and over and over.

It was a decent system.

Alts. Could have repeated with alts. BtA items.

[HungarianRhapsody]

That's a problem with drop rate, rather than the mechanic itself.

It's a problem with both.

They're level 20 items. Level 21 items drop 30+% of the time for each run of a quest on Elite as a single, complete item. Unless we're going to change the S/S/S drop rates so much that we can make a new item after an average of 3ish runs, then we're still in an inappropriate level of grind for leveling gear.

You shouldn't be spending months getting gear that you're going to wear for hours.

[HungarianRhapsody]

At the time, S/S/S items WERE end-game.

I liked that you didn't have to repeat the same quest over and over and over to get what you needed. In fact, they put in an 18 hour timer so you COULDN'T repeat the same quest over and over and over.

It was a decent system.

I'm aware of all that. I was playing the game for a while before the S/S/S items were even created. It WAS a decent system. It isn't now. It's a system that should have been changed back in 2015.

[Silverleafeon]

Given the disastrous Sands SSS system... /not signed for any new SSS system ever

[Renvar]

S/S/S was not a bad system, except, as others stated, that in two quest packs (VoN and Sands) the number of items was too large and they didn't limit the S/S/S to specific quests. That resulted in drop rates for the one you want that is too low.

If they had split it up a bit and given two chests in EDQ1 and EDQ2 that could each drop 1 of 15 shards (hence about a 1 in 15 chance of getting the one you want) and done two chests in Wiz King and one in OOB and Chains of Flame for 15 seals each chest, you would have had something where farming was more reasonable. Or, create Epic versions of Astrologer, Phsysican, Purge Fallen Shrine, Mines, Raid the Vukoorim and handed out seals in them + OOB for 6 chests each of 10 possibles and used DQ1, DB2, Wizking, and Chains for shards, you would be better off.

Same thing with VoN.

Or better yet, give us a barter vendor with a turn in ratio of 10 to 1. 10 seals of whatever for the 1 you want. 10 shards of whatever for the 1 you want. Heck make it 20 to 1. Just give us an end to the grind and a feeling of incremental progress.

[Silverleafeon]

Or better yet, give us a barter vendor with a turn in ratio of 10 to 1. 10 seals of whatever for the 1 you want. 10 shards of whatever for the 1 you want. Heck make it 20 to 1. Just give us an end to the grind and a feeling of incremental progress.

Even 100 to 1 would be an improvement....

[Silverleafeon]

In fact given the fairly accurate calculation of pulling a RoSS seal of .0006 (0.06%)

a 200 to 1 trade in would be a vast improvement.