Learned Something On Lammania That Does Not Add Up (BAB Inconsistency)

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

Okay so I was running the divine Crusader tree for the benefits of consecration, full BAB, and mild dps buffs..... well my survivability was decent as a Melee artificer, however I was then advised to test the build out using the Legendary Dreadnaught tree....... somehow enemies were hitting less hard and I was hitting harder in which did not make sense as I was not using Master's Blitz (I forgot to activate it) and I did not change my twists of fate, I only changed my epic destiny.

I feel this matter may center significantly around perhaps BAB being less important than otherwise thought or even something to do with benefits that do not scale with BAB. Any blunder based on BAB seems rather reasonable as it reads as a very complicated mechanic, that being said, here is the description from DDO wiki......


"Base Attack Bonus serves several roles in DDO:

It is added to all attack rolls with any weapon, including bare hands.
It determines the number of attacks in your attack sequence.
It determines player attack speed:
For melee weapons, attack speed increases at BAB 1, 3, 5, 10, 15, 20, and 25 (MrCow)
For bows and thrown, attack speed increases with each point of BAB, and it grows much faster than for melee. (MrCow)
Several combat-related feats require a minimum BAB to unlock.
The Physical Resistance Rating that you receive for wearing armor scales with BAB."

By this, should I have noticed a decrease in my attack speed?

By this should I have been hit harder by enemies?

It really does not quite add up and I'd like to get to the bottom of it.....

It's not simply that I was killing them faster than they could kill me as I let them attack me without defending myself for a bit and could take said attacks for a longer period of time than before in the same quest/fight in the quest/difficulty

It could be that I spent some points in the constitution enhancement but I highly doubt that, it could also be because of the extra hit points combined with my auto healing procs created a buffer able to increase my survivability...... then again suppose fortitude saves could have something to do with it.... highly doubt it though.

Here is the DDO wiki entry for Fortitude save (Constitution)

"Fortitude save
Your Fortitude Save is a Saving throw that details how well you are able to withstand attacks on your body. If you were poisoned or diseased then you would roll a Fortitude save against a specific DC or Difficulty Class to see if you are able to withstand the effect.

Other saving throws are Reflex save and Will save."

In short the increase of DPS makes sense, the gaining of defence does not...... unless there is something I am missing.

BTW, I did not change any gear between test runs, the quest was "Night Falls On Stormreach"

[Bacab]

Sources of PRR
Items
Physical Resistance Rating offered by armor type / docent body feat / shield type:
Armor type PRR Cloth armor 0 Light armor BAB * 1 Medium armor BAB * 1.5 Heavy armor BAB * 2 Docents PRR Mithral Body BAB * 1 Adamantine Body BAB * 2 Shield type PRR Bucklers/Orbs 0 Small shields 5 Large shields 10 Tower shields 15
Note: Stacks with the Sheltering enhancement
Note: PRR bonuses from armor only apply to armor with which you are proficient

http://ddowiki.com/page/PRR


PRR comes from BAB as well.

So abilities that increase your BAB (Tensor's for example) also increase your PRR.

The "heavier" the armor, the more benefit you get.

As as melee arty, I am guessing you are in either Addy body, medium or heavy armor.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

Sources of PRR
Items
Physical Resistance Rating offered by armor type / docent body feat / shield type:
Armor type PRR Cloth armor 0 Light armor BAB * 1 Medium armor BAB * 1.5 Heavy armor BAB * 2 Docents PRR Mithral Body BAB * 1 Adamantine Body BAB * 2 Shield type PRR Bucklers/Orbs 0 Small shields 5 Large shields 10 Tower shields 15
Note: Stacks with the Sheltering enhancement
Note: PRR bonuses from armor only apply to armor with which you are proficient

http://ddowiki.com/page/PRR


PRR comes from BAB as well.

So abilities that increase your BAB (Tensor's for example) also increase your PRR.

The "heavier" the armor, the more benefit you get.

As as melee arty, I am guessing you are in either Addy body, medium or heavy armor.

Medium armor, also I did not change any of my gear for this test......... the only difference was a change in the epic destiny trees...

[AbyssalMage]

Can you tell us in each destiny:

BAB
PRR
MRR
Saves
AC
HP's
Melee Power


My guess without further evidence:
DPS: BAB + Melee Power + AP's > Dreadnought
Defense: AC + PRR/MRR + AP's > Dreadnought

I'm actually surprised by the increase in Defense (without Blitz) during your test. With Blitz, I could see you having more defense/survivable chance but you stated that wasn't the case.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

Can you tell us in each destiny:

BAB
PRR
MRR
Saves
AC
HP's
Melee Power


My guess without further evidence:
DPS: BAB + Melee Power + AP's > Dreadnought
Defense: AC + PRR/MRR + AP's > Dreadnought

I'm actually surprised by the increase in Defense (without Blitz) during your test. With Blitz, I could see you having more defense/survivable chance but you stated that wasn't the case.

Well, there is one thing I can think of, the guy I brought along for the test may have buffed me........ but even for a buff that is too much of an effect if that is the case. Unfortunately, lamannia is close so i can't fetch the numbers at the moment.

[Hobgoblin]

no

[Morroiel]

Most likely due to quest scaling.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

Most likely due to quest scaling.

It was the same quest.......

Night Falls On Stormreach

One party member other than myself.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

Can you tell us in each destiny:

BAB
PRR
MRR
Saves
AC
HP's
Melee Power


My guess without further evidence:
DPS: BAB + Melee Power + AP's > Dreadnought
Defense: AC + PRR/MRR + AP's > Dreadnought

I'm actually surprised by the increase in Defense (without Blitz) during your test. With Blitz, I could see you having more defense/survivable chance but you stated that wasn't the case.

The guy I was running with may have used some sort of buff on me as he was wanting to state that the Legendary Dreadnaught tree was more survivable so I really don't know. Reading the attributes of the divine crusader and legendary Dreadnought tree, it would seem that the Divine Crusader tree offered more in defense. Perhaps there is a cap on what defences can be for a character that I was already quite close to before entering the divine crusader tree, then again perhaps there were a few lucky hits from the enemies on me in that quest....

[Morroiel]

It was the same quest.......

Night Falls On Stormreach

One party member other than myself.

You don't understand how quest scaling works. If that other person changed (which you yourself have said), your scaling changed.

Class Levels factor into how quest scaling works. It is very noticeable between high scaling classes (warlock, sorcerer) and low scaling classes (barbarian).

[AzureDragonas]

There is no denial that LD is all ways superior to crusader. So all what counts is how well you understand LD to begin with.

You can argue that Zeal of the Righteous gives you all damage you need and aura gives you healing, but there it comes to common sense and numbers which proves that anyone who picks crusader over LD literally don't understand how DPS classes in DDO works.

So gonna give some insights on this topic:
LD
* Combat Brute from LD during action boosts gives you 50% extra helpless damage, as long as monsters are helpless your damage will increase.
* LD gives you extra action boosts and DC so you can use more offten damage boosts and CC moves like dire charge more effectively
* LD gives you cleave which trips based on STR and applies helpless status and can reset while using other cleaves doubling number of AOE CC you got for DPS
* you get 60 hp + con
* you get extra W for damage moves
* In a bad situation you have Action Boost Thick Skinned which reduces all incoming damage by 25%
* you can get extra threat range and multipliers in this tree depending on weapon types
* with fully working blitz is 85 MP
* 30 extra prr to use

Crusader:
* AOE damage based on health
* Doulestrike up to +60
* 50 hp
* up to 66 MP
* 10 PRR
* extra threat range
* some extra damage cleave
* full BAB

So now we come to main issues why LD is in all sense superior:
* BAB from crusader in most cases is useless, it works only for those classes which don't get full BAB and yet you can use either holy power or tenser for same reason and more.
* MP from crusader is temporal meaning all the time it decreases and even on its fullest is way lower than LD have ALL THE TIME.
* In most cases well geared DPS will have 60-70 passive doublestrike meaning most of doublestrike you get from crusader is wasted cause of 100 cap
* AOE percentage damage needs to stack in EE well played LD will kill mobs in a seconds, even if crusader will try to DPS and add stacks damage will be way too low to have any meaning
* Crusader cleave compared to utility of LD is a poking one nothing more
* In these days any good DPs will have some sort of amp and there is coccon from avatar which allows you to move don't restrict you and even gives a temp hp shield while healing, its more than enough to heal up, also if you play DPS melee well you won't be hit that much to begin with as long as you use all CC LD gives.

In conclusion I personally don't get why to play crusader as melee cause there is no real advantage, but it's personal choice, i still find crusader effective for tanks who lack dps themselves and don't mind to pike in groups of monsters to take them down with aura, other than that can't see any reason.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

There is no denial that LD is all ways superior to crusader. So all what counts is how well you understand LD to begin with.

You can argue that Zeal of the Righteous gives you all damage you need and aura gives you healing, but there it comes to common sense and numbers which proves that anyone who picks crusader over LD literally don't understand how DPS classes in DDO works.

So gonna give some insights on this topic:
LD
* Combat Brute from LD during action boosts gives you 50% extra helpless damage, as long as monsters are helpless your damage will increase.
* LD gives you extra action boosts and DC so you can use more offten damage boosts and CC moves like dire charge more effectively
* LD gives you cleave which trips based on STR and applies helpless status and can reset while using other cleaves doubling number of AOE CC you got for DPS
* you get 60 hp + con
* you get extra W for damage moves
* In a bad situation you have Action Boost Thick Skinned which reduces all incoming damage by 25%
* you can get extra threat range and multipliers in this tree depending on weapon types
* with fully working blitz is 85 MP
* 30 extra prr to use

Crusader:
* AOE damage based on health
* Doulestrike up to +60
* 50 hp
* up to 66 MP
* 10 PRR
* extra threat range
* some extra damage cleave
* full BAB

So now we come to main issues why LD is in all sense superior:
* BAB from crusader in most cases is useless, it works only for those classes which don't get full BAB and yet you can use either holy power or tenser for same reason and more.
* MP from crusader is temporal meaning all the time it decreases and even on its fullest is way lower than LD have ALL THE TIME.
* In most cases well geared DPS will have 60-70 passive doublestrike meaning most of doublestrike you get from crusader is wasted cause of 100 cap
* AOE percentage damage needs to stack in EE well played LD will kill mobs in a seconds, even if crusader will try to DPS and add stacks damage will be way too low to have any meaning
* Crusader cleave compared to utility of LD is a poking one nothing more
* In these days any good DPs will have some sort of amp and there is coccon from avatar which allows you to move don't restrict you and even gives a temp hp shield while healing, its more than enough to heal up, also if you play DPS melee well you won't be hit that much to begin with as long as you use all CC LD gives.

In conclusion I personally don't get why to play crusader as melee cause there is no real advantage, but it's personal choice, i still find crusader effective for tanks who lack dps themselves and don't mind to pike in groups of monsters to take them down with aura, other than that can't see any reason.

I was playing a Divine crusader as a pure artificer..... for the defensive and healing advantages along side the full bab and minor melee improvement advantages (Stress defense).

I forgot to even so much as activate blitz through that dungeon test run and I still seemed to have a defense boost come from nowhere.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

You don't understand how quest scaling works. If that other person changed (which you yourself have said), your scaling changed.

Class Levels factor into how quest scaling works. It is very noticeable between high scaling classes (warlock, sorcerer) and low scaling classes (barbarian).

Uh, actually he was the same party member both runs.... no hirelings either.

[AzureDragonas]

I was playing a Divine crusader as a pure artificer..... for the defensive and healing advantages along side the full bab and minor melee improvement advantages (Stress defense).

I forgot to even so much as activate blitz through that dungeon test run and I still seemed to have a defense boost come from nowhere.

As other have told Crusader in all sense is inferior to LD, so there are 2 options left, that either you don't properly play DPS like don't have coccon or use LD abilities you get etc, or it was encounter based like number of champs/reaper you got. In no other circumstances crusader would have performed better than LD in same quest with same gear set.

[btolson]

Crusader:
* AOE damage based on health

* AOE percentage damage needs to stack in EE well played LD will kill mobs in a seconds, even if crusader will try to DPS and add stacks damage will be way too low to have any meaning

Crusader aura only affects one target per pulse; it is not an AOE. It has been this way for roughly a year.

[AzureDragonas]

Crusader aura only affects one target per pulse; it is not an AOE. It has been this way for roughly a year.

Well bummer, I count is one of worst tree to play next to fatesinger so might have missed while ignoring it

[vyvy3369]

As other have told Crusader in all sense is inferior to LD, so there are 2 options left, that either you don't properly play DPS like don't have coccon or use LD abilities you get etc, or it was encounter based like number of champs/reaper you got. In no other circumstances crusader would have performed better than LD in same quest with same gear set.
I find it to be useful for soloing reaper - the healing on kill is not reduced similar to the barbarian on kill healing, and it provides more DPS benefits than other trees that grant self healing.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

As other have told Crusader in all sense is inferior to LD, so there are 2 options left, that either you don't properly play DPS like don't have coccon or use LD abilities you get etc, or it was encounter based like number of champs/reaper you got. In no other circumstances crusader would have performed better than LD in same quest with same gear set.

I think he might have buffed me or that the benefits from the Filigree sets in my mainhand caused a discrepancy

I was using a full set of both One Against Many and The City's Beacon, also there was a champion present when I nearly died while using the Divine Crusader tree.

[Niminae]

The guy I was running with may have used some sort of buff on me [...]



You know that your buffs are visible to you, right? This should never be a 'may have' sort of thing for an intelligent player. A screen shot should capture this for you if you can't manage it yourself.

[Valerianus]

you are Learning something. nice!

[FuryFlash]

I was the party member accompanying Lokeal for these tests. The difference in survivability was because in the first run, we split up which monsters we were fighting to see how we could hold up individually against the enemies, whereas in the second run we fought together for the whole quest. My character was pulling almost all the aggro and because of that, Lokeal was getting hit less - therefore, an increase in "survivability." As he already said, he forgot to run Blitz and was therefore statistically weaker defensively on the second run, but it didn't matter because I had the majority of enemy aggro. I did mention to him at the time that these runs were not a good indicator of his character's changes in switching destinies.

[Grace_ana]

1. Exactly what do you have in each destiny tree?

2. Did you compare all of your stats (AC, ability scores, saves, dodge, PRR, MRR, fort, etc.) in each instance, or did you assume it was a BAB issue?

BAB scales PRR a little, but for the most part it affects your offense far more noticeably than your defenses. If you thought that it was a strong defensive stat, you misunderstood BAB. Either way, "it felt like I got hit harder" with no other stat info or screenshots is really not a measure of anything. DDO is a complex game.

Regarding your power output, LD does give slightly more melee power than DC in the cores. It also gives significant bonuses to crits. So yeah, you're going to hit way harder in LD. Full BAB isn't going to make up for the offensive bonuses in LD, even outside of Blitz.

[Algreg]

you are Learning something. nice!

don´t assume stuff yet.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

You know that your buffs are visible to you, right? This should never be a 'may have' sort of thing for an intelligent player. A screen shot should capture this for you if you can't manage it yourself.

Yeah, but I had it cluttered with guild buffs and item set effects and trusted him not to contaminate the test, also I need to uninstall and reinstall my video capture program before it will work again as the instal is somehow bugged and it has been ever since after I ran a bunch of tests for the healer's bounty proc and vampirism. Screenshots take effort I did not bother making unfortunately, I suspected nothing amiss from him as I trusted him. It could be that the protective procs from the City's beacon were not active at the moment thus causing me to be more susceptible to attack from that champion.

Surprisingly vampirism 4 is more effective than I had originally surmised as is healer's bounty if used right (Power of a non-amplified Vampirism 4 is a 12 while the power of a non-amplified legacy vampirism is 14.5, meanwhile healer's bounty can proc a ton if you are being mobbed by a hoard of Howlers and a Chain swinging Shadar-Kai to the tune of about 4-6 procs over an eight minute long battle).

[Grace_ana]

Yeah, but I had it cluttered with guild buffs and item set effects and trusted him not to contaminate the test, also I need to uninstall and reinstall my video capture program before it will work again as the instal is somehow bugged and it has been ever since after I ran a bunch of tests for the healer's bounty proc and vampirism. Screenshots take effort I did not bother making unfortunately, I suspected nothing amiss from him as I trusted him. It could be that the protective procs from the City's beacon were not active at the moment thus causing me to be more susceptible to attack from that champion.

Surprisingly vampirism 4 is more effective than I had originally surmised as is healer's bounty if used right (Power of a non-amplified Vampirism 4 is a 12 while the power of a non-amplified legacy vampirism is 14.5, meanwhile healer's bounty can proc a ton if you are being mobbed by a hoard of Howlers and a Chain swinging Shadar-Kai to the tune of about 4-6 procs over an eight minute long battle).

This is not how testing works. Don't surmise things based on how they "feel." Control the variables and get actual numerical data. I don't even understand the point of this thread except to say, "LD feels better than DC, and I've decided to randomly pick a reason because I don't understand how the game works."

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

1. Exactly what do you have in each destiny tree?

2. Did you compare all of your stats (AC, ability scores, saves, dodge, PRR, MRR, fort, etc.) in each instance, or did you assume it was a BAB issue?

BAB scales PRR a little, but for the most part it affects your offense far more noticeably than your defenses. If you thought that it was a strong defensive stat, you misunderstood BAB. Either way, "it felt like I got hit harder" with no other stat info or screenshots is really not a measure of anything. DDO is a complex game.

Regarding your power output, LD does give slightly more melee power than DC in the cores. It also gives significant bonuses to crits. So yeah, you're going to hit way harder in LD. Full BAB isn't going to make up for the offensive bonuses in LD, even outside of Blitz.

Well, Divine Crusader offers some benefits to defenses, but the only thing in the Legendary Dreadnaught that seems to offer a defensive buff is the Master's Blitz and thick skin neither of which I used....... the curious matter is that somehow my defenses had me be squishier while in the Divine Crusader Tree as if the defensive buffs in said tree may be bugged to give less equal to what it is supposed to give more of.

The test was regarding comparing not the DPS of each tree but the survivability...... I was so sleepy when running this test, but not using thick skin or master's blitz should have made me squishier but it somehow did not and being that i was fighting sleep my gaming suffered, but all the more reason as to why I should have been squishier.

[vryxnr]

I was the party member accompanying Lokeal for these tests. The difference in survivability was because in the first run, we split up which monsters we were fighting to see how we could hold up individually against the enemies, whereas in the second run we fought together for the whole quest. My character was pulling almost all the aggro and because of that, Lokeal was getting hit less - therefore, an increase in "survivability." As he already said, he forgot to run Blitz and was therefore statistically weaker defensively on the second run, but it didn't matter because I had the majority of enemy aggro. I did mention to him at the time that these runs were not a good indicator of his character's changes in switching destinies.

If this is true than this is a HUGE factor that needs to be addressed. This more than explains the dps and survivability shift, regardless of ED you're running in or how sleepy you are. Aggro on a different party member means both increased dps and increased survivability.

I would highly suggest doing these tests again with this variable under control. Either have your buddy with you drawing aggro the whole time in both tests, or have your buddy NOT there drawing aggro for both tests. Having him/her there for one but not the other really REALLY badly and significantly skews the results (for any form of testing).

[Grace_ana]

Well, Divine Crusader offers some benefits to defenses, but the only thing in the Legendary Dreadnaught that seems to offer a defensive buff is the Master's Blitz and thick skin neither of which I used....... the curious matter is that somehow my defenses had me be squishier while in the Divine Crusader Tree as if the defensive buffs in said tree may be bugged to give less equal to what it is supposed to give more of.

The test was regarding comparing not the DPS of each tree but the survivability...... I was so sleepy when running this test, but not using thick skin or master's blitz should have made me squishier but it somehow did not and being that i was fighting sleep my gaming suffered, but all the more reason as to why I should have been squishier.

It looks like your friend that accompanied you already explained to you why the two quests were different. You should have listened to him.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

This is not how testing works. Don't surmise things based on how they "feel." Control the variables and get actual numerical data. I don't even understand the point of this thread except to say, "LD feels better than DC, and I've decided to randomly pick a reason because I don't understand how the game works."

Uuuum, the 12 and 14.5 score is based on procs, not feels.

I paused the video recording at each point for the legacy vampirism and the vampirism 4 as the procs were floating up on the screen so that the most vampirism procs were on the screen at once.

For the Legacy Vampirism, it was a bit odd due to double strikes if I had to guess procing 4-5 times per cycle (moment where you can pause the video recording with all the floaty procs)

For vampirism 4 however, there never seemed to be anything more than 2 procs floating at once at most

However vampirism 4 is 4D2 while Legacy vampirism is 1D3

With legacy Vampirism you can have 4-5 procs per cycle where as the procs per cycle for Vampirism 4 are more akin to 2.5, however once again vampirism 4 is 4D2 as compared to the Legacy vampirism 1D3

Here's the system I used for rating them both

1X3=3, 3X5=15, 15+1=16, 16÷2=8, 8+5=13, .5X3=1.5, 13+1.5=14.5

4X2=8, 8X2=16,16+4=20, 20÷2=10, 10+2=12 (No doublestrike to influence score=final number)

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

If this is true than this is a HUGE factor that needs to be addressed. This more than explains the dps and survivability shift, regardless of ED you're running in or how sleepy you are. Aggro on a different party member means both increased dps and increased survivability.

I would highly suggest doing these tests again with this variable under control. Either have your buddy with you drawing aggro the whole time in both tests, or have your buddy NOT there drawing aggro for both tests. Having him/her there for one but not the other really REALLY badly and significantly skews the results (for any form of testing).

Yeah now that I think about it, perhaps I should have convinced him to die so I could pick up his soulstone and carry it. It was important to have him along but I obviously wasn't able to quite think it all through all too well. However........ my survivability remained increased when I got back on later and soloed a few quests, but then again I was actually using Master's Blitz, also dungeon scaling.......... so the question is, how should I run this test again later on? How many test variables should I make?

[vryxnr]

The key to good testing is to setup your test, clearly document all conditions, run it a few times, then change one and only one variable, then run it a few times with that one difference and note any changes... and then once satisfied with the results therin, alter a new variable to note incremental changes it brings, etc. The larger the sample size before each variable shift, the better (to minimize outlier events such as good/bad RNG).

The issue with your previous test was too many variable were altered at once in too few runs, and not all documented clearly (what all your partner did in each run, for example), such as the differences brought in from grouping vs splitting up, as well as personal fatigue, using vs not using certain aspects/new abilities of new EDs, etc. Each and every one of those and more (dungeon scaling vs not, subconscious playstyle changes, etc) add to the variables list and cause things could potentially change.

Also clearly communicating all of that so that others can run the same experiment and verify or falsify independently.

(now, I am aware that this is a lot of meticulousness that most are unwilling to actually go through with, but for best results, and in order to provide the best case for others to see, meticulousness is the way to go)

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

The key to good testing is to setup your test, clearly document all conditions, run it a few times, then change one and only one variable, then run it a few times with that one difference and note any changes... and then once satisfied with the results therin, alter a new variable to note incremental changes it brings, etc. The larger the sample size before each variable shift, the better (to minimize outlier events such as good/bad RNG).

The issue with your previous test was too many variable were altered at once in too few runs, and not all documented clearly (what all your partner did in each run, for example), such as the differences brought in from grouping vs splitting up, as well as personal fatigue, using vs not using certain aspects/new abilities of new EDs, etc. Each and every one of those and more (dungeon scaling vs not, subconscious playstyle changes, etc) add to the variables list and cause things could potentially change.

Also clearly communicating all of that so that others can run the same experiment and verify or falsify independently.

(now, I am aware that this is a lot of meticulousness that most are unwilling to actually go through with, but for best results, and in order to provide the best case for others to see, meticulousness is the way to go)


Yeah, I guess the best take away from this is to not try running tests while close to dozing off. There are so many things I should have done differently, many things I should have done multiple times..... but then again the survivability was comparatively insane, but either way there is so much more I could have gotten out of this if I were awake enough to plan everything accordingly and run it more times. The DDO wiki BAB entry should be updated with more data, in fact I'd go as far as to say that it should have enough information to teach people how to compensate for a lack of full bab through build technique and equipment effects. There is too much in the BAB entry that is simply kind of vague..... and therefore easy to overestimate or underestimate the importance of........

"It is added to all attack rolls with any weapon, including bare hands."

"It determines the number of attacks in your attack sequence."

By how much per BAB?

"It determines player attack speed:
For melee weapons, attack speed increases at BAB 1, 3, 5, 10, 15, 20, and 25 (MrCow)"

Is there any effect this does not stack with? Also to what extent?

"For bows and thrown, attack speed increases with each point of BAB, and it grows much faster than for melee. (MrCow)"

To what extent is this the case?

"Several combat-related feats require a minimum BAB to unlock."

"The Physical Resistance Rating that you receive for wearing armor scales with BAB."

What exactly is the math behind this?

[Bacab]

Uuuum, the 12 and 14.5 score is based on procs, not feels.

I paused the video recording at each point for the legacy vampirism and the vampirism 4 as the procs were floating up on the screen so that the most vampirism procs were on the screen at once.

For the Legacy Vampirism, it was a bit odd due to double strikes if I had to guess procing 4-5 times per cycle (moment where you can pause the video recording with all the floaty procs)

For vampirism 4 however, there never seemed to be anything more than 2 procs floating at once at most

However vampirism 4 is 4D2 while Legacy vampirism is 1D3

With legacy Vampirism you can have 4-5 procs per cycle where as the procs per cycle for Vampirism 4 are more akin to 2.5, however once again vampirism 4 is 4D2 as compared to the Legacy vampirism 1D3

Here's the system I used for rating them both

1X3=3, 3X5=15, 15+1=16, 16÷2=8, 8+5=13, .5X3=1.5, 13+1.5=14.5

4X2=8, 8X2=16,16+4=20, 20÷2=10, 10+2=12 (No doublestrike to influence score=final number)

Jeez dude. You have so much spam, you are struggling to post in your correct thread.

Think about that for a second.

Btw, rather than admit you meant this to be in your "why like auto healing" thread...you will say...

Boil it down, emotional hygiene, and this is only a suggestion.

[glmfw1]

"It determines the number of attacks in your attack sequence."

By how much per BAB?
Follow the link on the BAB page to the Attack Sequence page and all the information is there.


"It determines player attack speed:
For melee weapons, attack speed increases at BAB 1, 3, 5, 10, 15, 20, and 25 (MrCow)"

Is there any effect this does not stack with? Also to what extent?

"For bows and thrown, attack speed increases with each point of BAB, and it grows much faster than for melee. (MrCow)"

To what extent is this the case?

Follow the links to the forum posts by MrCow that are linked there. They have all of the relevant information for the calculations. If this was on the BAB page, the page would become very messy and confusing to a lot of people, to whom "faster" is a good enough answer.

The general rule for anything stacking is "if the name is the same it doesn't stack, if the name is different it does stack". You can generally assume anything that impacts attack speed stacks with anything else unless they have the same name, just as with anything else. Normally exceptions to this rule are given in the descriptions of effects.



"The Physical Resistance Rating that you receive for wearing armor scales with BAB."

What exactly is the math behind this?
Follow the link on the BAB page to the Physical Resistance Rating page and all the information is there.

[Grace_ana]

I think you need to learn more about game mechanics before you try to test any of them.

[AzureDragonas]

Uuuum, the 12 and 14.5 score is based on procs, not feels.

I paused the video recording at each point for the legacy vampirism and the vampirism 4 as the procs were floating up on the screen so that the most vampirism procs were on the screen at once.

For the Legacy Vampirism, it was a bit odd due to double strikes if I had to guess procing 4-5 times per cycle (moment where you can pause the video recording with all the floaty procs)

For vampirism 4 however, there never seemed to be anything more than 2 procs floating at once at most

However vampirism 4 is 4D2 while Legacy vampirism is 1D3

With legacy Vampirism you can have 4-5 procs per cycle where as the procs per cycle for Vampirism 4 are more akin to 2.5, however once again vampirism 4 is 4D2 as compared to the Legacy vampirism 1D3

Here's the system I used for rating them both

1X3=3, 3X5=15, 15+1=16, 16÷2=8, 8+5=13, .5X3=1.5, 13+1.5=14.5

4X2=8, 8X2=16,16+4=20, 20÷2=10, 10+2=12 (No doublestrike to influence score=final number)

So let me get this right... You are all way about automated self healing, using bad weapons/items instead of actually maxing your damage/survivability and healing same amount you heal in half a minute just in a second?

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

So let me get this right... You are all way about automated self healing, using bad weapons/items instead of actually maxing your damage/survivability and healing same amount you heal in half a minute just in a second?

No, contrary I only rely on automated healing enough to slightly increase the wait time required in between each healing spell or potion use.

Most people are not as tedious as I am when it comes to item effects, they don't fret over a non-stacking item effect in their equipment selections, I do and I build to avoid such using the combat log and a notepad where I write down all non-stacking effects. If a single item I have equipped has item effects that multiple other items also share, I take note and start research around those conflicts while keeping in mind the effect that I value from said item. If you are tedious enough, having all of the desired effects and auto-healing procs isn't always an impossible venture (Depending on the class, race, and available gear for said intentions).