Electrocution filigree damage scaling ?

[Elindel22]

Hi.

Does the electrical damage you get from the electrocution filigree
scale with electric spell power ?

Thanks

[SpartanKiller13]

Hi.

Does the electrical damage you get from the electrocution filigree
scale with electric spell power ?

Thanks

Please read the wiki before asking simple questions. (http://ddowiki.com/page/Sentient_Weapon/Filigrees#Electrocution)

The set gives 4d6+1d6 per epic level. No mention of scaling, and it would be hilariously broken if there was scaling. Does not scale. Average proc at 30 is 49. That's already fairly strong.

Imagine if it did scale, with 500 spellpower (pretty trivial to obtain on a non-caster) you'd average a 294 damage proc. Add to a shuricannon/repeater/multishot bow = gg. With 1000 spellpower, it would average 539 damage. In what world would that be balanced?

[edrein]

Please read the wiki before asking simple questions. (http://ddowiki.com/page/Sentient_Weapon/Filigrees#Electrocution)

The set gives 4d6+1d6 per epic level. No mention of scaling, and it would be hilariously broken if there was scaling. Does not scale. Average proc at 30 is 49. That's already fairly strong.

Imagine if it did scale, with 500 spellpower (pretty trivial to obtain on a non-caster) you'd average a 294 damage proc. Add to a shuricannon/repeater/multishot bow = gg. With 1000 spellpower, it would average 539 damage. In what world would that be balanced?

In the world where most folks actively using Sentient Weapons are running reaper difficulty where their damage output is reduced and thus scaling is important.

[Elindel22]

Please read the wiki before asking simple questions. (http://ddowiki.com/page/Sentient_Weapon/Filigrees#Electrocution)

The set gives 4d6+1d6 per epic level. No mention of scaling, and it would be hilariously broken if there was scaling. Does not scale. Average proc at 30 is 49. That's already fairly strong.

Imagine if it did scale, with 500 spellpower (pretty trivial to obtain on a non-caster) you'd average a 294 damage proc. Add to a shuricannon/repeater/multishot bow = gg. With 1000 spellpower, it would average 539 damage. In what world would that be balanced?

I read the wiki.

As usual, it did not give any clear cut answer to
my question.

[glmfw1]

Please read the wiki before asking simple questions. (http://ddowiki.com/page/Sentient_Weapon/Filigrees#Electrocution)

The set gives 4d6+1d6 per epic level. No mention of scaling, and it would be hilariously broken if there was scaling. Does not scale. Average proc at 30 is 49. That's already fairly strong.

Imagine if it did scale, with 500 spellpower (pretty trivial to obtain on a non-caster) you'd average a 294 damage proc. Add to a shuricannon/repeater/multishot bow = gg. With 1000 spellpower, it would average 539 damage. In what world would that be balanced?

I think it's a reasonable question to ask and one that the wiki doesn't actually answer.

I can't remember seeing anything written that says "extra damage added to weapons from crafting, augments, filigrees, enhancement trees etc. does not scale with spellpower". There are plenty of effects that do benefit from spellpower that assume you know it and don't state it outright, some that don't and make a point of saying so, and others that don't say but don't benefit. Something not being written does not mean it doesn't happen. Once you know what is affected, it's easy enough to work out what else will/won't be but, until you do, something not being stated does not prove it's not the case.

Your quick maths shows that it would be very unbalancing if the set did benefit from spellpower, but for a newer player it's not so obvious and could greatly impact build choices. Getting 500 spellpower is not a trivial task, unless you know trees and gear well, and the difference between {4d6+1d6 per epic level}x1 and {4d6+1d6 per epic level}x2.7 at 170 spellpower (lvl 20 cannith crafting + filigrees) is not obviously game-breaking at first glance.

[SpartanKiller13]

In the world where most folks actively using Sentient Weapons are running reaper difficulty where their damage output is reduced and thus scaling is important.

I can't find any hard numbers for the scaling, but I will say that most folks I see running reaper are in the low skulls range (and therefor less scaling). And ~300 damage/shot would be really strong even if it's 67% off. ~50 damage/shot it currently is gives enough that it's not being reduced to 0 anywhere I see, but maybe if you're a R10 dude you can say otherwise. You're probably using Otto's or Prowess though if you're in R10.


I read the wiki.

As usual, it did not give any clear cut answer to
my question.

? Wiki (and the filigree) have no mention of scaling. Why would you assume they have it? Seems pretty clear cut to me.

I mean it'd be really awkward to have to edit everything in DDO to say "does not scale with melee/ranged/spell power" (pick two) lol. Like Blade Barrier doesn't scale with MP, and Phase Hammer doesn't scale with Force Spellpower (which sorta make sense maybe) and things like mauls don't scale with RP (which doesn't make sense).

[glmfw1]

Wiki (and the filigree) have no mention of scaling. Why would you assume they have it? Seems pretty clear cut to me.


It's quite an easy to understand why people would think they were impacted by spellpower when you think about it:

Base Damage of weapons is impacted by Melee/Ranged Power
Base Damage of spells is impacted by Spellpower

Then you look at the source of the power:

Damage spells use magic to create an typed damage effect
The same typed damage effects (caused by magic) can be placed on weapons by a number of means (Crafting, Augments, Filigrees...)

It's not entirely illogical to say "if the base damage from my weapon is increased by my melee power, then the magical damage from my weapon should be increased by my spellpower, right?"

Just because those in the know already know this not to be the case (because it's a pre-cast magic effect, not a spell being actively cast at the time) doesn't mean this distinction is obvious to newer people or to people who have generally had low spellpower (where its a moot point anyway) or not had relevant effects on weapons that could be impacted.

It would help if the character sheet was redesigned and the Spellpower section clearly stated what it does and doesn't effect as default. Without this, it does take game knowledge to understand.

[SpartanKiller13]

It's quite an easy to understand why people would think they were impacted by spellpower when you think about it:

Base Damage of weapons is impacted by Melee/Ranged Power
Base Damage of spells is impacted by Spellpower

Then you look at the source of the power:

Damage spells use magic to create an typed damage effect
The same typed damage effects (caused by magic) can be placed on weapons by a number of means (Crafting, Augments, Filigrees...)

It's not entirely illogical to say "if the base damage from my weapon is increased by my melee power, then the magical damage from my weapon should be increased by my spellpower, right?"

Just because those in the know already know this not to be the case (because it's a pre-cast magic effect, not a spell being actively cast at the time) doesn't mean this distinction is obvious to newer people or to people who have generally had low spellpower (where its a moot point anyway) or not had relevant effects on weapons that could be impacted.

It would help if the character sheet was redesigned and the Spellpower section clearly stated what it does and doesn't effect as default. Without this, it does take game knowledge to understand.

Or you could look at (AFAIK) every existing weapon with damage procs that don't scale (a few that scale with level, like this or some Rubies), and assume that adding another proc won't scale as well. If there's one I'm missing that does scale I'd be interested to learn more, and I'd also assume that it says so in the description.

Spells scale, enhancements are pretty clear if they do or not (with SP or with MP/RP), melee/range damage scale with the appropriate, but extra procs do not.

I'm not saying that your argument is entirely illogical, just that there's a whole lot of precedent pointed in the other direction.

[glmfw1]

I'm not saying that your argument is entirely illogical, just that there's a whole lot of precedent pointed in the other direction.

Newer players don't know the precedents and the game doesn't state it outright.
Once you know it you know it and you have that "oh, that explains why my Radiance item doesn't effect my Coruscating Damage" moment. The combat log scrolls fast (with so many lines of unneeded text) and doesn't include calculations, just results, so unless you specifically plan to check into something, it may be a long time before you realise that something isn't happening.
It's very easy for the more experienced players to forget that those who are newer to the game might not have yet found out the things that "everybody already knows".

[SpartanKiller13]

Newer players don't know the precedents and the game doesn't state it outright.
Once you know it you know it and you have that "oh, that explains why my Radiance item doesn't effect my Coruscating Damage" moment. The combat log scrolls fast (with so many lines of unneeded text) and doesn't include calculations, just results, so unless you specifically plan to check into something, it may be a long time before you realise that something isn't happening.
It's very easy for the more experienced players to forget that those who are newer to the game might not have yet found out the things that "everybody already knows".

OP has 170 posts since they joined the forums in April. :rolleyes:

[glmfw1]

OP has 170 posts since they joined the forums in April. :rolleyes:

Hence my reply on one of those posts (and other peoples to the same effect) to say "check the wiki first" - as the answers to many queries were there. Generally a lot of Elindel's questions have been typical of someone enthusiastic but new to the game (we have had similar asked in Guild chat by newer players), and the wiki answers a lot, but even the wiki (being based on player knowledge/understanding) makes assumptions about what people already know, so has gaps that only someone who doesn't know will realise are there.

[SpartanKiller13]

Hence my reply on one of those posts (and other peoples to the same effect) to say "check the wiki first" - as the answers to many queries were there. Generally a lot of Elindel's questions have been typical of someone enthusiastic but new to the game (we have had similar asked in Guild chat by newer players), and the wiki answers a lot, but even the wiki (being based on player knowledge/understanding) makes assumptions about what people already know, so has gaps that only someone who doesn't know will realise are there.

Fair enough.

I guess my point is just that I don't think it's on the devs/wiki writers to include every case that doesn't apply? Maybe the New Player Guide (http://ddowiki.com/page/Newbie_guide) could use an update to include scaling? MP/RP/Spellpower etc? Then we could point most questions directly to it :)

If I remember I'll see if I can create an account later.

[glmfw1]

Fair enough.

I guess my point is just that I don't think it's on the devs/wiki writers to include every case that doesn't apply? Maybe the New Player Guide (http://ddowiki.com/page/Newbie_guide) could use an update to include scaling? MP/RP/Spellpower etc? Then we could point most questions directly to it :)

If I remember I'll see if I can create an account later.

If you know how you would word it, I can update it for you.