View Full Version : Suggestion: Add Legendary as a difficulty option for older content
Capricorpus
07-09-2018, 01:48 PM
We could use more content, especially raids, to run at level 30. There are a lot of raids that used to be part of the endgame that are now filled with outdated gear, can't be done on reaper by level 30 characters, and would not be remotely challenging even if they could be entered by level 30s on reaper. Some of these raids (LoB is an excellent example) contain loot with unique effects or bonuses that don't exist elsewhere that could easily be scaled up to level 29 loot.
Scaling up the difficulty of an extant raid and adding updated legendary ML29 versions of the loot would take time, but undoubtedly less time than creating a new raid from scratch.
Bullet points:
- Allow older raids and possibly quests to be run on higher difficulties to greatly expand the amount of challenging content available to level 30 players
- Scale up at least some of the more useful loot to legendary
I'm sure this is something you've considered, I'm sure that I'm not the first person to suggest this. Please strongly consider doing it.
Ew_vastano
07-09-2018, 03:13 PM
We could use more content, especially raids, to run at level 30. There are a lot of raids that used to be part of the endgame that are now filled with outdated gear, can't be done on reaper by level 30 characters, and would not be remotely challenging even if they could be entered by level 30s on reaper. Some of these raids (LoB is an excellent example) contain loot with unique effects or bonuses that don't exist elsewhere that could easily be scaled up to level 29 loot.
Scaling up the difficulty of an extant raid and adding updated legendary ML29 versions of the loot would take time, but undoubtedly less time than creating a new raid from scratch.
Bullet points:
- Allow older raids and possibly quests to be run on higher difficulties to greatly expand the amount of challenging content available to level 30 players
- Scale up at least some of the more useful loot to legendary
I'm sure this is something you've considered, I'm sure that I'm not the first person to suggest this. Please strongly consider doing it.
ooh ml30 t3 alchemical wraps now they could be fun
Fivetigers33
07-09-2018, 03:28 PM
/signed
Having more endgame raids is always a good thing.
Just make sure the legendary alchemical weapons accept sentience.
Capricorpus
07-09-2018, 03:56 PM
I imagine legendary alchemical weapons, if they were to exist, as having somewhat worse base weapon profiles than the Ravenloft raid weapons (because they wouldn't want to render Ravenloft obsolete even though alchemical would likely be more difficult and time consuming to get), but with scaled versions of their unique effects being useful enough to make them a legitimate option for endgame gear.
The idea isn't to add more power creep, the idea is to give us more endgame raids to run along with updated gear to make them worth running.
Retrodark
07-09-2018, 04:02 PM
We could use more content, especially raids, to run at level 30. There are a lot of raids that used to be part of the endgame that are now filled with outdated gear, can't be done on reaper by level 30 characters, and would not be remotely challenging even if they could be entered by level 30s on reaper. Some of these raids (LoB is an excellent example) contain loot with unique effects or bonuses that don't exist elsewhere that could easily be scaled up to level 29 loot.
Scaling up the difficulty of an extant raid and adding updated legendary ML29 versions of the loot would take time, but undoubtedly less time than creating a new raid from scratch.
Bullet points:
- Allow older raids and possibly quests to be run on higher difficulties to greatly expand the amount of challenging content available to level 30 players
- Scale up at least some of the more useful loot to legendary
I'm sure this is something you've considered, I'm sure that I'm not the first person to suggest this. Please strongly consider doing it.
This would be a great solution to help the game out.
Doing the same content on reaper all the time at 30 is boring and most of us keep going back to TR-ing. At this time there are only newer raids that are legendary and the rest are obsolete. The gear is useless and just takes up code at this point. There should be an entire revamp on old raids and gear. Just doing 1 block at a time (i.e. upgrade to Heroic Big Top gear in next update), makes me feel like the devs are pretending to be road construction workers. There is always word to be done and they work on one little stretch of highway for 5 years.
Pyed-Pyper
07-09-2018, 04:09 PM
We could use more content, especially raids, to run at level 30. There are a lot of raids that used to be part of the endgame that are now filled with outdated gear, can't be done on reaper by level 30 characters, and would not be remotely challenging even if they could be entered by level 30s on reaper. Some of these raids (LoB is an excellent example) contain loot with unique effects or bonuses that don't exist elsewhere that could easily be scaled up to level 29 loot.
Scaling up the difficulty of an extant raid and adding updated legendary ML29 versions of the loot would take time, but undoubtedly less time than creating a new raid from scratch.
Bullet points:
- Allow older raids and possibly quests to be run on higher difficulties to greatly expand the amount of challenging content available to level 30 players
- Scale up at least some of the more useful loot to legendary
I'm sure this is something you've considered, I'm sure that I'm not the first person to suggest this. Please strongly consider doing it.
Allegedly, revamping old content (for example, a higher level/difficulty) is more work than creating something from scratch, so that is why you are more likely to get something new instead of something revamped.
Yes, it would be nice to have more end-game raids. Yes it would be nice if some of the older packs were to get updated. Yes it would be nice if the Cannith raids weren't so close together, level-wise. Yes it would be nice if the Cannith raid gear was relevant beyond 1-2 levels.
AbyssalMage
07-09-2018, 04:31 PM
No thanks. Tired of copy/paste adventures.
Wouldn't mind the effects "show up" on newer loot though.
I understand the community would like to reminisce but you can accomplish that while leveling. Some/most things belong in the past. It's time for change and new things.
Selvera
07-09-2018, 05:02 PM
We actually have lots of legendary raids that can be run on reaper. There is; however; a problem where the loot of most of these are outdated and therefore we have perfectly good level 31+ raids that are almost not run anymore.
Like for example there's 2 raids with pretty close to shared loot lists where you can get an impressive +38 sheltering and 17% doublestrike at the same level as regular quest loot gives you 22% doublestrike and slavelords gives the option of +45 sheltering at a lower minimum level. So why would anyone run a raid for inferior loot? These days they're essentially only run for fun anymore.
Looking at equipment lists from various top players; forum builds and my own theorycrafting; there is very little outside of ravenloft (including raids); legendary shroud and slavelords (and any newer content released after ravenloft); which is powerful enough to slot into endgame gear sets.
So why run Tempest Spine, Mark of Death, Hound of Xoriat, Riding the Storm out, Defiler of the Just, Temple of the Deathwyvern or Fire on Thunder Peaks? (All of these are raids level 30+).
They don't give great xp; they don't give sought-after loot and they don't even drop items often enough to give good sentient xp. All they really give these days is variety/fun and the option for some weaker-legendary characters to maybe make the step up to better gear with mid-way decent gear if they don't have connections to people powerful enough to get (or work towards) best-in-slot gear. But even for that last point; most of the gear from these raids is so far behind the best-in-slot that they're not even 2nd or 3rd or 4th best in slot.
If the developers actually wanted an endgame with lots of different content being run often; they could juggle up the cap-level items a bit so that the older raids have 1 or 2 desirable items in them instead of some of the newer raids (which would retain 3-4 desirable items in them); So that each of the raids would have a purpose to run them. This idea; however has significant problems to implement it (people building runes in a raid for an item would be ticked off if it was moved to a different raid, or even if it's done perfectly; it could divide the at-cap player base to want different raids and make it harder to find a raid group in general, instead of everyone wanting to run the same 2 raids).
Capricorpus
07-09-2018, 06:02 PM
No thanks. Tired of copy/paste adventures.
Wouldn't mind the effects "show up" on newer loot though.
I understand the community would like to reminisce but you can accomplish that while leveling. Some/most things belong in the past. It's time for change and new things.
The assumption I'm making is that this would take less effort than making a dozen or so new raids, and would therefore be a way to give those of us who want challenging content at 30 more content to run in less development time.
Nostalgia has very little to do with it, except for the part where I fondly remember the days where we had more raids worth running at cap.
Capricorpus
07-09-2018, 06:08 PM
We actually have lots of legendary raids that can be run on reaper. There is; however; a problem where the loot of most of these are outdated and therefore we have perfectly good level 31+ raids that are almost not run anymore.
Like for example there's 2 raids with pretty close to shared loot lists where you can get an impressive +38 sheltering and 17% doublestrike at the same level as regular quest loot gives you 22% doublestrike and slavelords gives the option of +45 sheltering at a lower minimum level. So why would anyone run a raid for inferior loot? These days they're essentially only run for fun anymore.
Looking at equipment lists from various top players; forum builds and my own theorycrafting; there is very little outside of ravenloft (including raids); legendary shroud and slavelords (and any newer content released after ravenloft); which is powerful enough to slot into endgame gear sets.
So why run Tempest Spine, Mark of Death, Hound of Xoriat, Riding the Storm out, Defiler of the Just, Temple of the Deathwyvern or Fire on Thunder Peaks? (All of these are raids level 30+).
They don't give great xp; they don't give sought-after loot and they don't even drop items often enough to give good sentient xp. All they really give these days is variety/fun and the option for some weaker-legendary characters to maybe make the step up to better gear with mid-way decent gear if they don't have connections to people powerful enough to get (or work towards) best-in-slot gear. But even for that last point; most of the gear from these raids is so far behind the best-in-slot that they're not even 2nd or 3rd or 4th best in slot.
If the developers actually wanted an endgame with lots of different content being run often; they could juggle up the cap-level items a bit so that the older raids have 1 or 2 desirable items in them instead of some of the newer raids (which would retain 3-4 desirable items in them); So that each of the raids would have a purpose to run them. This idea; however has significant problems to implement it (people building runes in a raid for an item would be ticked off if it was moved to a different raid, or even if it's done perfectly; it could divide the at-cap player base to want different raids and make it harder to find a raid group in general, instead of everyone wanting to run the same 2 raids).
You make some very valid points. We don't have "lots" of legendary raids, but we do have more than people usually run. RtSO is in a good place difficulty wise and has at least a couple usable items, but some of the other level 30+ raids are relatively easy and have obsolete gear.
I still do think that adding legendary to some of the older raids could help, but in addition to that balancing some of the newer raids to have less useless gear would be a good idea.
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