2 builds: Openers for Necro 2 & Necro 3

[C-Dog]

Okay, I'll toss this one out for the build gurus, cuz I'm kinda boggling. Both 1) too many options, and b) I'm not familiar enough w/ Cleric-types to know if I want a dedicated undead-blasting Cleric, or something else would be better suited, and iii) don't want my own build prejudices to influence me, and (last) there are others are better at this than I am, generally speaking.


Long story short, I need 2 separate builds for 2 different openers on an alt account, specialized (separately) for Necro 2 and for Necro 3. Those are the quests that each will be dual-boxed to open for.


Because it is an alt account, it's basically F2P as far as char-gen goes - 28 point builds, no premium classes/races (other than Drow, natch). (Some day, 32 point builds and Favored Soul - but not yet, nor on any near horizon. Feel free to suggest how to LR the alt for when that day arrives.)


Each opener has to be able to deal w/ any traps in the quest chain, plus any "special" obstacles (ability runes, etc etc.), altho' doing that via a Hire and/or pet is legit afaic. Doesn't ~technically~ have to be able to "solo" it, as I can alt+tab back and forth w/ whatever alt(s) he's opening for and they can provide rescue/support, and I suppose he could die, release, re-enter - as he won't care about XP - but - basically, yeah.

(For Trapping, the only concern is for any traps that prevent progress in the quest, and, for those, all he'd really need is Search & Disable Device - the traps are static (enough) to not require Spot, and Open Locks is not a requirement as far as loot is concerned. Likewise Evasion. Any/all of those area always nice on any build, but, for this, none are goals in and of themselves.)


Would love to keep them both semi-Reaper-friendly (+1 level over base quest level for only a -10% penalty to RXP), but I could easily live w/ +2 levels for Bravery Bonus only (and suck up the -50% RXP if/when I want to go there). And, push come to shove, I'd rather have a build at +2 Levels over that can run the quest on Elite rather than a build at +1 Level over that only ~might~ be able to run on Reaper 1. :D


o Necro 2 (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Necropolis,_Part_2) (aka "Tombs of the Shadow Dudes") is level 8, so a level 10 opener would work, but Lvl 9 would be better.

o Necro 3 (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Necropolis,_Part_3#Quests_by_Favor) is level 11, so a level 13 opener would work, but Lvl 12 would be better.


(Note - As a starting point, EllisDee had suggested, elsewhere, as all-purpose openers, this Lvl 7 Mech/Pali repeater (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/466344-Dual-box-openers?p=5701828&viewfull=1#post5701828) for N2 and this Lvl 11 Pale Trapper (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/466344-Dual-box-openers?p=5701830&viewfull=1#post5701830) for N3. Both are slightly under-level for my purposes, but I have no idea if boosting them as-is would work, or something else would serve better. Since these will be slightly more specialized here as undead runners, wondering if I can get more out of those levels, one way or another.)

And, if it's a coin toss, a more general-purpose build over an over-specialized undead-blaster is always a good thing - gotta level them up, after all.*

Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions!


(* And, yeah, kicking myself for missing the recent Vet III weekend for this, but that is what it is.) :rolleyes:

[simo0208]

Okay, I'll toss this one out for the build gurus, cuz I'm kinda boggling. Both 1) too many options, and b) I'm not familiar enough w/ Cleric-types to know if I want a dedicated undead-blasting Cleric, or something else would be better suited, and iii) don't want my own build prejudices to influence me, and (last) there are others are better at this than I am, generally speaking.


Long story short, I need 2 separate builds for 2 different openers on an alt account, specialized (separately) for Necro 2 and for Necro 3. Those are the quests that each will be dual-boxed to open for.


Because it is an alt account, it's basically F2P as far as char-gen goes - 28 point builds, no premium classes/races (other than Drow, natch). (Some day, 32 point builds and Favored Soul - but not yet, nor on any near horizon. Feel free to suggest how to LR the alt for when that day arrives.)


Each opener has to be able to deal w/ any traps in the quest chain, plus any "special" obstacles (ability runes, etc etc.), altho' doing that via a Hire and/or pet is legit afaic. Doesn't ~technically~ have to be able to "solo" it, as I can alt+tab back and forth w/ whatever alt(s) he's opening for and they can provide rescue/support, and I suppose he could die, release, re-enter - as he won't care about XP - but - basically, yeah.

(For Trapping, the only concern is for any traps that prevent progress in the quest, and, for those, all he'd really need is Search & Disable Device - the traps are static (enough) to not require Spot, and Open Locks is not a requirement as far as loot is concerned. Likewise Evasion. Any/all of those area always nice on any build, but, for this, none are goals in and of themselves.)


Would love to keep them both semi-Reaper-friendly (+1 level over base quest level for only a -10% penalty to RXP), but I could easily live w/ +2 levels for Bravery Bonus only (and suck up the -50% RXP if/when I want to go there). And, push come to shove, I'd rather have a build at +2 Levels over that can run the quest on Elite rather than a build at +1 Level over that only ~might~ be able to run on Reaper 1. :D


o Necro 2 (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Necropolis,_Part_2) (aka "Tombs of the Shadow Dudes") is level 8, so a level 10 opener would work, but Lvl 9 would be better.

o Necro 3 (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Necropolis,_Part_3#Quests_by_Favor) is level 11, so a level 13 opener would work, but Lvl 12 would be better.


(Note - As a starting point, EllisDee had suggested, elsewhere, as all-purpose openers, this Lvl 7 Mech/Pali repeater (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/466344-Dual-box-openers?p=5701828&viewfull=1#post5701828) for N2 and this Lvl 11 Pale Trapper (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/466344-Dual-box-openers?p=5701830&viewfull=1#post5701830) for N3. Both are slightly under-level for my purposes, but I have no idea if boosting them as-is would work, or something else would serve better. Since these will be slightly more specialized here as undead runners, wondering if I can get more out of those levels, one way or another.)

And, if it's a coin toss, a more general-purpose build over an over-specialized undead-blaster is always a good thing - gotta level them up, after all.*

Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions!


(* And, yeah, kicking myself for missing the recent Vet III weekend for this, but that is what it is.) :rolleyes:


You know you don’t actuallyvhave to enter the quest as the opener right? You can have one account flagged on both. They can be 30th level or whatever.

[xveganrox]

>Doesn't ~technically~ have to be able to "solo" it, as I can alt+tab back and forth w/ whatever alt(s) he's opening for and they can provide rescue/support, and I suppose he could die, release, re-enter - as he won't care about XP - but - basically, yeah.

Why not just park them at the entrance of the quest and run through on your main? They aren't going to be getting xp, but they're just their for opening anyway? It would be a way quicker to finish the chain, and the build wouldn't matter at all.

[AbyssalMage]

First thought is to use a flagged level 30 to open. Pretty sure you can still open on R1+ (I can verify later if that is a concern).

Everything can be done without a Trapper in Necro III and IV. If you are wanting the trap bonus for the Necro II quest and disable the traps in Necro III so the dang rats don't die so easily...
8/3 (Necro III) and 5/3 (Necro II) Human Cleric/Rogue (5/3)

Human for bonus Feet and +1 Skills
16/18/14 Charisma, Intelligence, Con

Search/Disable are Int based.
High Chr for turning (which should be your focus when not doing traps)

It is a highly focused character though.

[C-Dog]

You know you don’t actuallyvhave to enter the quest as the opener right?
I've been playing this game since '11, so, yes, not unsurprisingly, I do know that, thanks for asking.


Why not just park them at the entrance of the quest and run through on your main?
B/c not every build can solo the quest at that level, nor is built to handle the traps, nor the special obstacles in the quest.


Everything can be done without a Trapper in Necro III and IV.
But I'm talking II and III.

But - really? I thought I remembered some being dealbreakers. But if I'm mis-remembering, that takes that out nicely.


For N2, I'd been thinking about something like a Rogue 6/Pali 3 (or so), for the extra light damage on top of a light repeater, but... just not sure that's the best there is.

[Bacab]

To get the Necropolis, you will either have to farm some Points or buy a few.

If you are open to it, I would suggest an Easy button Warforged Wizard/Rog. Standard first level ROG and then second level ROG later (probably after you get Wall of Fire)

Firewall overcomes basically all of Necro 1,2,3.

The Rogue levels get traps. Firewall kills everything.

Also, to be an opener, you don't have to do elite.

I have considered doing a similar thing as well btw.

[EllisDee37]

Your best bet is two pale trappers, level 9 and level 11, because firewall is the single greatest easy button for necro2 and 3.

The level 11 in my thread you linked is highly effective for dualboxing necro3, as well as VON5 if you have a group that's waiting for a trapper. I need to update the gear list for the cannith crafting pass; maybe I'll get to that this week. (I updated my actual character's gear, but forgot to post the changes.)

For a level 9 variant, 7/2 wizard/rogue gets you firewall, which is particularly useful for that necro2 torch snuffing quest. You also get a skeleton pet for dualboxing Xorian Cipher.

EDIT: Bacab's suggestion of warforged wizard/rogue using repair spells for the self-healing is almost certainly better than pale trappers.

[EllisDee37]

EDIT: Bacab's suggestion of warforged wizard/rogue using repair spells for the self-healing is almost certainly better than pale trappers.Actually, thinking more about this, I could go either way:

- Warforged means you have to buy warforged on the dualbox account. (Mine doesn't have it.)
- Reaper self-healing penalty hurts death aura, but can also burn through your mana tout suite if you have to self-heal with repair spells. For lower skulls I think death aura is more mana-efficient. But if you have someone else who can heal the wizard, at least warforged can be healed by others.
- Human Saves Boost is a key feature for VON5 to avoid failing saves on a 1 when you have to stand inside the blade trap to disable the box at the start, run through the lightning hall to get to the boxes, and stand on the fire jet to get blown up to the higher level.

I've run my level 11 dualbox through VON5 on R3, and while it worked pretty well, even with saves boost I did still fail some trap saves. Apparently reaper raises the save DCs. Even still, it was awesome to have since the group I was in waited for a trapper for a while and none ever showed.

[C-Dog]

PT - not my personal favorite, but whatever gets the job done. Will give it a swing, thx!


To get the Necropolis, you will either have to farm some Points or buy a few.
??? Um, yeah... :confused:


If you are open to it, I would suggest an Easy button Warforged Wizard/Rog...
I'm open to it, but the (as clearly stated) F2P account is not so much.

[zwiebelring]

Do you have access to cannith crafting?

If yes, a pure Paladin or Cleric with a relatively high starting CHA + adequate items and enhancements for Turn Undead will do the job. I am playing a Pal at the moment and use Turn Undead successfully on R1. PB 36 build, though, starting CHA 16, iirc. Tomes are present.

A Clr got another advantage. It can healburst the undead away, so you do not have to focus on turning specifically, maybe only on according spellpower and be a casting Clr.

Personally I favor melee anytime, so a Paladin might be just enough for that. My Paladin focuses on Sacred Defender and Knight of The Chalice trees, advancing its stance for stacking STR and PRR/MRR bonuses. It utilizes cannith crafted Sacred + Eternal Faith items. Most undead cower, only on Necro1 content some get destroyed but cowering is as useful as a mass hold (no helpless damage but I don't give a rat's rectum...) and with all bonuses to weapon damage vs. these mobs they get killed easily. I managed to implement even Stunning Blow for cc.ing caster mobs.

If I made a melee Clr with basically same item setup I am sure all undead cowering were destroyed instead. So, choose, whether you going to be melee or caster, then maximize CHA and turn features accordingly. If you are so inclined, you might even implement 1 or 2 Rog lvl.s but I guess that didn't work well with Paladin, since it brings him 4 lvl.s behind a Clr regarding turning lvl. With enhancements 3.

All that is bearing no past life feats in mind.

edit: Forgot that the toon also got tomes. So an inherent +2 to CHA should be considered.

[cru121]

It seems to me that it would be a shame not to use a cleric in undead-heavy content. Also, Fire domain grants Wall of Fire SLA. Also, why worry about evasion if you probably cannot get your saves up. Heavy armor and large/tower shield work nicely.

What about gear? I assume your alt account does not have access to Slaver's or Ravenloft. Those would work excellently on this level range...

[AbyssalMage]

But I'm talking II and III.

But - really? I thought I remembered some being dealbreakers. But if I'm mis-remembering, that takes that out nicely.
Sorry about that, thought when I did the "edit" I corrected that. I meant II and III (Think it was corrected at the end of the sentence).


Necro - 2
Guard - Lots of swimming

King - Has 2 Poison Traps but easily avoidable but AoE damage is essential. Not everything is Undead :(

Knight - This is the one with lots of traps. The optional chests will be off limits without a trapper. All 4 wings is just positioning and jumping to avoid the traps so you can finish.

Lord - Can be done with Hireling. Traps easily avoidable.

Necro - 3

Blighted - Lots of cures

Forbidden - Easily avoidable Traps

Tormented - Traps can be avoided but very useful to have trapper. Personally I have found "spell AoE" to be more beneficial than a trapper.

Unhallowed - Traps can easily be avoided.

Yeah, I am beginning to feel your struggle. I think Necro II is the biggest challenge from doing the very basic cliff notes of these 8. King and Knight from Necro II are your biggest headache on R1. Tormented is easily the one that will make you want to quit DDO.

[scipiojedi]

Necro - 3


Tormented - Traps can be avoided but very useful to have trapper. Personally I have found "spell AoE" to be more beneficial than a trapper.


As someone who enjoys tormented and has done the maze several times, yes you CAN complete without a trapper but it is very very difficult. One time I forgot to put on my disable item and I blew a trap. Took me forever to time the rat through the circular spinner blades.

[C-Dog]

It seems to me that it would be a shame not to use a cleric in undead-heavy content. Also, Fire domain grants Wall of Fire SLA...
That was my initial feeling. I mean - that's what they're designed to do, right?

Implosion, Turns, heavy armour + shield, smites - should get the job done?

And w/ WoF... :/


What about gear? I assume your alt account does not have access to Slaver's or Ravenloft. Those would work excellently on this level range...
Yeah, pretty SoL re named gear.

And Cannith Crafting is not high-level for this account, but up to Crafting Level 100 or so, yeah, so those.

[EllisDee37]

The problems with a turning cleric for the necro quests:

1) Trapping is very difficult to pull off since it requires so much base int for skills (4 points per level just for search & disable)
2) There are many non-undead enemies in the necro quests

I love turning clerics, but unless the quests are ONLY undead (like, say, Night Revels) a turning cleric may end up having problems. Especially if you have to jack up your starting int for trapping skills.

[zehnvhex]

Easy. Pure halfling sorcerer.

- Chain gun flame walls/acid rain with little/no SP concerns.

- The 1 feat/10 AP requirement to get 4xheal/day dragonmark is not that big of a deal on sorc. Great for emergency situations when your hireling is derping it up.

- Halfling/sorc both free.

- Fire Sorc SLA's are amazing.

- Sorc is pretty much superior to a wizard in every conceivable way. It's not even close in heroics.

- Rolling up a pale trapper gives you cancer. This is science fact.

People get really, -really- hung up on trapping in DDO for some reason but the simple fact of the matter is that 96% of (non-raid) traps in DDO can be easily avoided/mitigated. It takes about an extra 25 seconds to do the 3rd rat maze (provided you're still conscious) without trapping.

Gear wise it would be a good idea to eventually get Ravenloft (if you intend to level at all past 10) or at the very least Slavers but you can make do with random drops/AH scumming.

[C-Dog]

- Chain gun flame walls/acid rain with little/no SP concerns.
? - those aren't SLA's... I feel the love of those two spells, but I'm not following your "no SP concerns" comment... :confused:


- Rolling up a pale trapper gives you cancer. This is science fact.
My stomach always does feel odd while doing this, gotta admit. :p


Gear wise it would be a good idea to eventually get Ravenloft (if you intend to level at all past 10) or at the very least Slavers but you can make do with random drops/AH scumming.
No argument, but not going to happen on an alt account, not for me anyway. Droploot and Crafting it is!

[Deadlock]

You can flag an opener on normal. If all you want is an opener then forget about being Reaper capable, there's absolutely no need - just dual box and leave him at the entrance and let your main level him up to the level you want.

My Shadow Crypt opener is an old ranged weapon bank toon that I ran up to lvl 6 purely to flag as an opener. Seem to recall using a hire as lever puller for Shadow Lord.

https://imageshack.com/a/img921/7194/VJkSDa.png

Olg is who I still use today as my opener for SC - I can't be bothered dual boxing - I just pass the star to someone else in the party and swap to Olg when I want an opener.