Ranger overhaul

[Hadeze]

removed

[simo0208]

I think the ranger class or the one that uses longbows needs an overhaul. I have the past lifes, I have the gear, I have the skills but the class itself is failing in the newer adventure packs. Solo with a Hire I cannot complete any of the Ravenloft quests on any difficulty other than Normal. I don't want to run Normal because of the extremely low XP. It is not that I am too good for normal because I would rather run normal. But it is that normal does not offer the experience that my character needs to level in a reasonable amount of time played. This in itself is causing me to dislike the game and not want to play. Thank you.

Mind posting your build, stats, gear, etc? I think before a whole class overhaul, it might be worthwhile to look at your build and see what improvements you can make there. Are you talking epic ravenloft or heroic as well as that is a pretty big difference, especially when considering hirelings (epic hirelings are pointless).

[Kaboom2112]

Ranger as a class is fine.

Bows however do suck.

[Kaboom2112]

I have the past lifes, I have the gear,

Deets please. My main's a ranger and I don't face these issues.

[glmfw1]

Make sure you pick a bow with a good Critical profile.
Check your trees to make sure you have options that work together and benefit the overall build. Make sure you are using the abilities that you have effectively (e.g. don't forget to use Sniper Shot every 6 seconds to activate sneak attack, and don't swap between targets - kill one then move on).

With the Ravenloft quests, the wisps in Into the Mists can be a pain, but can be ranged, and everything else can be pulled near the shrine (so you can fight them and if you accidentally die, you can run to the shrine, resurrect and start again). Wisps and wolves (and even the end fight) in Fresh Baked Dreams can be done the same way. I struggle soloing the first room in Invitation to Dinner at level, no matter the class, so that one you may want to group up for, even if soloing is your preference. With the later quests, the right buffs and looking for safe spots can normally ensure you can do them solo if you want to.

[janave]

Ranger as a class is fine.

Bows however do suck.

I agree, Bows are really bad, there hasn't been a really good ( high relative power ) bow added since Pinion. Cannith Crafting for bows is tragic too.

[janave]

This helps (http://ddowiki.com/page/Precision) somewhat vs high fort stuff.

[Garthog77]

I played ranger a couple of lives ago, and it seemed fine to me, had no problem with bows, don't understand the bow hate, even into epics I was doing pretty decent damage, my paralyze arrows worked almost every time and with fury of the wild I was doing 14k+ damage with everything running, depending on what skull I was on. All my bows were cannith crafted and they worked great.

[Yamani]

Level 12 Human Arcane Archer
Stats
Str - 14
Dex - 34
Con - 28
Int - 16
Wis - 26
Cha - 13
Skills
Concenntration - 15
Heal - 28
Hide - 34
Jump - 22
Move Silently - 40
Perform - 7.5
Search - 24
Spellcraft - 11.5
Swim - 23
Tumble - 20.5
Use Magic Device - 10
Balance - 22
Bluff - 1
Diplomacy - 3
Disable Device - N/A
Haggle - 2
Intimidate - 1
Listen - 11
Open Lock - N/A
Spot -23
Feats
Past Lives - Heroic Completionist. - Epic-Doubleshot X3. Racial Human 1.
Special Feats - Inherit Charisma, Constitution, Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom, Strength. Inherit Ranged Power X2
Attack, Bow Strength, Defensive Fighting, Die hard, dismiss charm, dodge, evasion,
Favored Enemy- Elf, Human, Undead
Greater two weapon fighting, Heroic durability,
Improved Critical: Ranged weapons.
Improved Heroic durability, Improved Precise Shot, Improved two weapon fighting, Improved wild empathy, Magical Training, Manyshot, Mobility, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Proficiencies, Rapid Shot, Sneak, Sunder,Trip, two weapon fighting, Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons. Wild Empathy, Wilderness lore.
Spells
lvl 1- Rams Might, Jump
lvl 2- Heal, protection from elements
lvl 3 - Heal, remove disease.
Enhancement
active - Arrow of Slaying, conjure arrows, force arrows, metalline arrows, morphic arrows, paralyzing arrows, shock arrows, terror arrows
passive - Arcane Archer, Awareness, Dexterity, Dexterity, Elemental Damage, Elemental Damage, Elemental Damage, Energy of the Wild, Far Shot, Favored defense, Improved weapon Finesse, increased empathy, Reapers Offense 1, Reapers Shot, Sneak Attack, Soul Magic, Survivalist 1, Thrill of the Hunt, Versatile Empathy,
Enhancement trees
33ap spent in Arcane Archer
11ap spent in Deepwood Stalker.

GEAR
Head - executioners helm
Neck - Supreme Tyrant Green Steel necklace of smoke
Trinket - Incandescent blue ioun stone (upgraded)
Cloak - Cloak of Night lvl 12
Belt - False life 24 Doubleshot 6
Ring - Con 6 Dex 6
Gloves - Tendon Slice 6 Ranged Alacrity 6 ///Supreme tyrant green steel gloves used for raise the dead
Boots - Speed vi 30/6 feather fall
Ring - Seeker 6 Accuracy 6
Bracers - deathblock, fortification 100
Armor - Snakeskin Vest
Goggles - Deadley 6

WEAPONS:
Supreme Tyrant Green Steel Longbow Lit2 / Lightning 2 force damage per hit via stone of change.
Silver Longbow with force damage per hit via the stone of changed. Augmented with Ruby of the Vampire Slayer
Barovian Longbow
+5 Shock longbow of Ghostbane

Sapphire Sting (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Sapphire_Sting)-I use this bow till 14, and by the looks you don't have a spell power item so are you using paralyzing arrows or something else?
I'd also recommend this set for rangers:
Mist-Laden Vestment (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Mist-laden_Vestment)
Shadowhail Cloak (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Shadowhail_Cloak)
Braided Cutcord (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Braided_Cutcord)

[lLockehart]

As was pointed above, the problem isn't so much with the Ranger trees as it is with the inherent issues of our bow & arrow mechanics.

Not only do they fall behind Dps vs throwers and Xbows, they also don't offer an unique aspect to justify them. You once could use a furyshotter to burst in certain raids but even that's fallen from grace (and it was also nerfed) It's a shame because bow & arrow is one of the most iconic styles in most fantasy settings and roleplaying games.

In heroics you can level okay'ish with Elemental arrows and Force imbue (depending on your equipment) while on Epics, you can (or have to) rely on Furyshotting to clear waves.

An Aoe stance has been suggested and I'm personally a fan of the idea but ultimately, it's the mechanic that needs to be changed since the rate of fire is so bad compared to other ranged options, coupled with the low damage potential and having nothing unique that's really worth picking up outside paralysing arrows.

So yeah, if you're keen in playing a damage based bow & arrow Ranger and you already have the past lives (6 dmg from Ranger, 3 from Monk, 3 from Arcane epic past life for a total of +12 per shot and 10% doubleshot) and all the loot, the game simply doens't support the style any further and you'll never get stronger than what you're already doing, it's especially noticeable while soloing, on a party you can always be a damage bot and at least contribute something.

I would suggest relinquishing your love of bow & arrow for a while and try a thrower build, a mechanic or an Arty for a change of pace (and playability).

[Dragnipurake]

If you are using shock and/or force arrows, then your equipment is missing electric and/or force spell power.

[nolifer1]

...................

[Kaboom2112]

Level 12 Human Arcane Archer
. . .

I'm not sure what to tell you. Your toon should have no issue doing this.

[voxson5]

I have the gear

GEAR
Head - executioners helm
Neck - Supreme Tyrant Green Steel necklace of smoke
Trinket - Incandescent blue ioun stone (upgraded)
Cloak - Cloak of Night lvl 12
Belt - False life 24 Doubleshot 6
Ring - Con 6 Dex 6
Gloves - Tendon Slice 6 Ranged Alacrity 6 ///Supreme tyrant green steel gloves used for raise the dead
Boots - Speed vi 30/6 feather fall
Ring - Seeker 6 Accuracy 6
Bracers - deathblock, fortification 100
Armor - Snakeskin Vest
Goggles - Deadley 6

WEAPONS:
Supreme Tyrant Green Steel Longbow Lit2 / Lightning 2 force damage per hit via stone of change.
Silver Longbow with force damage per hit via the stone of changed. Augmented with Ruby of the Vampire Slayer
Barovian Longbow
+5 Shock longbow of Ghostbane

I am sorry, but you really dont.

[Emerge2012]

Not only do they fall behind Dps vs throwers and Xbows, they also don't offer an unique aspect to justify them.

You mean like no fail paralyze/terror arrows on legendary R10 content? Or one shotting the small scarecrows in Baba in mid reaper using the smiting arrows? What if instead of Fury you geared up and pulled 250% doubleshot running in Divine Crusader with crowd control and good party heals? What if your archer was useful for 100% of the quest? What if your archer could Mass Frog undead and totems like a champ?

The problem isn't bows, it's the players and their general lack of creativity. People got stuck on the idea of furyshotting years ago and never progressed past that. The game has changed, change with it. Don't be that guy rocking to 30 year old music like it just came out yesterday and wonder why you aren't getting the girls.

[lLockehart]

You mean like no fail paralyze/terror arrows on legendary R10 content? Or one shotting the small scarecrows in Baba in mid reaper using the smiting arrows? What if instead of Fury you geared up and pulled 250% doubleshot running in Divine Crusader with crowd control and good party heals? What if your archer was useful for 100% of the quest? What if your archer could Mass Frog undead and totems like a champ?

The problem isn't bows, it's the players and their general lack of creativity. People got stuck on the idea of furyshotting years ago and never progressed past that. The game has changed, change with it. Don't be that guy rocking to 30 year old music like it just came out yesterday and wonder why you aren't getting the girls.


Sure and what if bow & arrow was actually supported? like, yeah it's a good way of playing a Ranger but you're drastically overselling it, a support build is good but there's tons of better options for that, you get to see some usability out of bow & arrow but it's not intuitive, needs a truckload of support and exists solely out of imbues which like I said, are cool but that's it.

I've never seen a Ranger no fail paralyse in R10 on each shot so I can't really comment on that but I agree, the imbues are good. Fury is still more consistent than Zeal, sure you get more burst but how is it better overall? the real upside is an higher proc rate on your imbues while it lasts.
Mass frogging isn't exclusive to Ranger.

The problem -is- bows, people expect to dish damage with bow & arrow as that's what happens in 99% of other games, in most fantasy settings and even in Pnp while it's just something not found here since the beginning, you always have to pair Manyshot with either fury or zeal, no amount of creativity will pull you out of that box. You could make a Fvs 20 AA to double down on the support and it works but that's not what 90% of people look for on bow & arrow.

Music is an ageless art and if you're advocating for not resisting change, then we're on the same page! a change in bow & arrow playability damage wise by the way of a stance or whatever else would go a long way.

[Cantor]

You mean like no fail paralyze/terror arrows on legendary R10 content? Or one shotting the small scarecrows in Baba in mid reaper using the smiting arrows? What if instead of Fury you geared up and pulled 250% doubleshot running in Divine Crusader with crowd control and good party heals? What if your archer was useful for 100% of the quest? What if your archer could Mass Frog undead and totems like a champ?

The problem isn't bows, it's the players and their general lack of creativity. People got stuck on the idea of furyshotting years ago and never progressed past that. The game has changed, change with it. Don't be that guy rocking to 30 year old music like it just came out yesterday and wonder why you aren't getting the girls.

They didn't say DCs were bad, they said DPS is bad.

A para archer can do fine.

Is there a reason archer shouldn't have competitive DPS? b/c it's not in the same league as top ranged options.

[Kaboom2112]

You mean like no fail paralyze/terror arrows on legendary R10 content? Or one shotting the small scarecrows in Baba in mid reaper using the smiting arrows? What if instead of Fury you geared up and pulled 250% doubleshot running in Divine Crusader with crowd control and good party heals? What if your archer was useful for 100% of the quest? What if your archer could Mass Frog undead and totems like a champ?

The problem isn't bows, it's the players and their general lack of creativity. People got stuck on the idea of furyshotting years ago and never progressed past that. The game has changed, change with it. Don't be that guy rocking to 30 year old music like it just came out yesterday and wonder why you aren't getting the girls.

While you are right, you can dump DPS and make a toon that does all this, there are better options for CC in this game.

Our guild used to have a CC AA, it was as effective as you say but not as good as those other options. He made it work by being primarily druid so he could also raid heal.

Options are good and you should be able to build a bow user that's the best ranged DPS in the game. Right now for whatever reason the devs disagree and have given that role to shurikens.

[janave]

I just pointed out there hasnt been a remotely exciting named bow added since MoTU. (~2012)

Of course this is true to other top5 popularity weapons.

[Kaboom2112]

I just pointed out there hasnt been a remotely exciting named bow added since MoTU. (~2012)

Of course this is true to other top5 popularity weapons.

Yeah, give us a bow with the (Literally) broken dot that Spite has :)

[SirValentine]

I think the ranger class or the one that uses longbows needs an overhaul.

It already happened. See Update 28 (https://www.ddo.com/en/update-28-release-notes) & Update 28, Patch 1 (https://www.ddo.com/en/update-28-patch-1-release-notes).

There's still quite a few enhancement trees that have not had an update. Is Ranger really so bad that it needs two rounds of buffs when other classes are at zero?

[Soleran100]

It already happened. See Update 28 (https://www.ddo.com/en/update-28-release-notes) & Update 28, Patch 1 (https://www.ddo.com/en/update-28-patch-1-release-notes).

There's still quite a few enhancement trees that have not had an update. Is Ranger really so bad that it needs two rounds of buffs when other classes are at zero?


Probably not rangers in general but bows.

Also sapphire sting>pinion.

[Cantor]

It already happened. See Update 28 (https://www.ddo.com/en/update-28-release-notes) & Update 28, Patch 1 (https://www.ddo.com/en/update-28-patch-1-release-notes).

There's still quite a few enhancement trees that have not had an update. Is Ranger really so bad that it needs two rounds of buffs when other classes are at zero?

Good links, compare the changes to AA with the changes to the other trees. It really shows how bows got the short end of the stick. Elemental arrows at least works well in low heroics, so yeah!

[Soleran100]

Good links, compare the changes to AA with the changes to the other trees. It really shows how bows got the short end of the stick. Elemental arrows at least works well in low heroics, so yeah!

Yeah they def don't scale like sneak attack damage does, that is for sure:)

[SirValentine]

...you should be able to build a bow user that's the best ranged DPS in the game. Right now for whatever reason the devs disagree and have given that role to shurikens.

In p&p, a longbow has triple the base damage of a shuriken, and 20x the maximum range (1000' versus 50').

[Kaboom2112]

In p&p, a longbow has triple the base damage of a shuriken, and 20x the maximum range (1000' versus 50').

Same with reality :)

I didn't say it was a good decision, I just stated how things are.

[fmalfeas]

Lit2 bow? If memory serves, aren't Wisps immune to lightning? You'd be better off with a Fire3, or Dust2 if you want to use GS.

[Soleran100]

Lit2 bow? If memory serves, aren't Wisps immune to lightning? You'd be better off with a Fire3, or Dust2 if you want to use GS.

Probably better off taking a bow with a better crit profile, silver bow or heroic sapphire sting.

Save the ingredients to craft a radiance gs item for the offhand of a thrower build you'll make next life to keep up with ranged dps:P

[fmalfeas]

Probably even just better off taking a bow with a better crit profile, silver bow or heroic sapphire sting.

Save the ingredients to craft a radiance gs item for the offhand of a thrower build you'll make next life to keep up with ranged dps:P

Well, if we're just looking towards superior bows, level up to 14, and bring Bow of Sinew. Win.

[Renvar]

Gear is only going to help so much. Bows RoF is just terrible and the base damage is so low on all the heroic bows. Unless you have manyshot on, it is brutal You can do good (but not great) DPS for 20 seconds out of every 140 seconds. The rest of the time, your only option is Paralyzing/Terror arrows.

If you want to kill stuff with ranged DPS you are way better off with a shuriken thrower build or a great crossbow rogue build if you like slower RoF and massive damage or a repeater xbow with artificer endless fusilade(basically manyshot without the cooldown with a 12 second cool down instead of 120 seconds).

Soloing with a Bow ranger is a slow agonizing torture session. Now, if you run a bow ranger with an actual DPS partner (or partners) who can appreciate all that paralysis...you will have a lot of fun.

[Selvera]

The problem with bows really isn't heroics; in heroics the enhancements work just fine and the named bows work fine. The problem with bows mostly comes from enhancements which don't scale as well as others into epics (shuriken/gxbows) and the lack of any good named bows since ToEE. Problems which are most apperent in cap-level play.

That said; my cleric arcane archer is able to solo (heroic) R1 ravenloft with less pastlives then you have (and probably better gear; looking at your list), and I don't even have improved precise shot yet.

Let's try to remember a few of my stats:
Dex: 34 or 36 or so
Deadly: 4 (+6 from ranger pastlives)
Seeker: 5
Doubleshot: 15%?
Cold Spellpower: 170ish (I use ice imbue; it doesn't help much with ravenloft so I often swap to rather low damage force imbue).
Force Spellpower: 70ish??
Positive Spellpower: Healing spells use cold spellpower because water domain.

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Improved Critical

Enhancements: 20 AP in elf for Dex to damage and the expensive unlock of arcane archer tree; everything else in arcane archer focusing on cold and force imbues. (Got up to tier 4 improved elemental damage).

Gear: 5 piece slavelords set; doubleshot/hamp gloves; upgraded quiver of alacrity; cloak of invisibility; bracers of the wind; armor of cold spellpower.

Weapon: Sapphire Sting (Ravenloft longbow or vorpal longbow as swaps)

My build will become much stronger vs the living when I pull the cold-spellpower belt out of ravenloft; and would be much better vs undead if I slotted in force spellpower somewhere.

I've run 3 ranger pastlives as archers. They don't really have an issue in heroics doing damage (beyond the whole ranged characters AoE sort of suck before improved precise shot thing). A ranger could solo ravenloft on reaper easier than I could by just bringing along a cleric hireling.

[Whitering]

I agree with the OP, longbows have somehow fallen behind other damage when they used to be SUPER...I mean I dreamed of getting a few items together, grabbing my fully upped Pinion and soloing raids all over the place like I'd seen back in the xploiter/monkcher days. I recently played a first life (+6 tomes though) ranger based on the Acid bow build and was disappointed in the extreme and I have the best heroic bows in the game on that character and generally the best gear she could get. Now, she resurrected as one of Tilo's build despite having none of the gear, it's also a ranger build but it's a melee one.

Every quest she did was worse than any other ranged build I have tried, and worse than any other build I have tried who can either just ignore ranged enemies (up on ledges and such), or 1 or two shot them when getting to them. I very much regret pulling Pinion from the raider box on that character.

[xveganrox]

IMO Ranger is one of the classes in the least need of an overhaul... your gear looks mostly fine, too, although there are definitely some easy improvements you could make (2 deathblock items, trinket could (CC) +6 wisdom/+16 sheltering/+2, armor isn't doing anything for you) but they're not really necessary. And you don't seem to have a spellpower item...? 8 AP into Shock Arrows is pretty much a waste if you aren't doing any damage with them.

What exactly is the problem you're having in Mists? You don't seem to have any resistance/save boost item, so if it's an issue with casters that might help. Resist Energy/FoM/Death Ward are all pretty useful/essential by 12.

If it's just a general playstyle issue, though, you might consider trying a strength-based rgr20 mostly focused on Tempest, using Manyshot when you want to. It's probably one of the more solo-friendly builds out there, even without past lives or any specific gear (unlike AA, which basically requires you to use one of a handful of weapons).

[janave]

Probably not rangers in general but bows.

Also sapphire sting>pinion.

Once you see thru the fluff Ssting is just a 3% faster Pinion with slightly better independent base damage, until enough [W]s make up the difference. A relatively tiny small upgrade.

PBS+CA+any 3W attack
+5 d8 (vs) 2d6

It is very common to have 8-11[W] or more in ranged clicky rotation. Example: Ottos->Pin->Snipershot->Merciful shot. (+11W).

[Kaboom2112]

If it's just a general playstyle issue, though, you might consider trying a strength-based rgr20 mostly focused on Tempest, using Manyshot when you want to. It's probably one of the more solo-friendly builds out there, even without past lives or any specific gear (unlike AA, which basically requires you to use one of a handful of weapons).

Tempest is fine, almost as strong as monk. But the OP wants to play an archer.

[Renvar]

I know AA Bow users who carry Spite (the named shuriken from RL) on their capped toons. They are fully specced in bow usage and the AA tree, but switch to the throwing star when they want real, non manyshot, DPS.

[Sam1313]

You have to really really love playing and being a Archer to play a Bow Ranger these days in this game.

The class itself is not bad, but the longbows damage per hit and the longbows Rate Of Fire just super ultra sucks. Almost as bad as Threnal.

There is no speed item that I know of that can quicken the Longbow. Believe me I have tried using the fastest speed item at level combined with Haste and or quivers and it still fires as slow as molasses.

In a full party or even half of a party the Archer does fine.

Soloing though takes F O R E V E R.

You can only advance in a quest as fast as your weapon can deal damage and when your weapon is firing like a 90 year old man is pulling the bow string then you better have a good pair of compression socks, lots of water, a really really comfortable chair, some snacks and toothpicks to hold your eyes open.

To the OP your gear is fine. Just imbue Force Arrows and get some piece of gear that will boost the force spell power. I wouldn't waste my time on any other imbued arrow as it seems most monsters are immune to just about any elemental damage.
Paralyzing Arrows are ok in most of heroics and even OK in Epic Normal to Epic Hard. Sometimes now you will rarely occasionally paralyze in Epic Elite but forget about it in Reaper. FORCE Arrows is the way to go.

My Archer ranger can solo most all of the content except for An Invitation to Dinner. For some reason I have to drop down to Elite to complete that quest. There are a few others I cannot solo but that one comes to mind.

Just my opinion here--> Doubleshot blows. Give me back my 4 arrows during manyshot and my old Arrow of Slaying back. Also I would like to someday see Exploding Arrow tips that do Area Of Effect damage.

[Whitering]

You have to really really love playing and being a Archer to play a Bow Ranger these days in this game.

The class itself is not bad, but the longbows damage per hit and the longbows Rate Of Fire just super ultra sucks. Almost as bad as Threnal.

There is no speed item that I know of that can quicken the Longbow. Believe me I have tried using the fastest speed item at level combined with Haste and or quivers and it still fires as slow as molasses.

In a full party or even half of a party the Archer does fine.

Soloing though takes F O R E V E R.

You can only advance in a quest as fast as your weapon can deal damage and when your weapon is firing like a 90 year old man is pulling the bow string then you better have a good pair of compression socks, lots of water, a really really comfortable chair, some snacks and toothpicks to hold your eyes open.

To the OP your gear is fine. Just imbue Force Arrows and get some piece of gear that will boost the force spell power. I wouldn't waste my time on any other imbued arrow as it seems most monsters are immune to just about any elemental damage.
Paralyzing Arrows are ok in most of heroics and even OK in Epic Normal to Epic Hard. Sometimes now you will rarely occasionally paralyze in Epic Elite but forget about it in Reaper. FORCE Arrows is the way to go.

My Archer ranger can solo most all of the content except for An Invitation to Dinner. For some reason I have to drop down to Elite to complete that quest. There are a few others I cannot solo but that one comes to mind.

Just my opinion here--> Doubleshot blows. Give me back my 4 arrows during manyshot and my old Arrow of Slaying back. Also I would like to someday see Exploding Arrow tips that do Area Of Effect damage.

Did archers get nerfed because of Monkchers? That left monks super powerful but nerfed rangers into the ground?

[janave]

Did archers get nerfed because of Monkchers? That left monks super powerful but nerfed rangers into the ground?

Monkchers are artifacts, you meant Monkchukers?

[Whitering]

Monkchers are artifacts, you meant Monkchukers?

I know it's in history, that's what I am talking about, were rangers and bows nerfed because of Monkchers? Obviously chuckers are doing fine.

[Emerge2012]

Sure and what if bow & arrow was actually supported? like, yeah it's a good way of playing a Ranger but you're drastically overselling it, a support build is good but there's tons of better options for that, you get to see some usability out of bow & arrow but it's not intuitive, needs a truckload of support and exists solely out of imbues which like I said, are cool but that's it.

I've never seen a Ranger no fail paralyse in R10 on each shot so I can't really comment on that but I agree, the imbues are good. Fury is still more consistent than Zeal, sure you get more burst but how is it better overall? the real upside is an higher proc rate on your imbues while it lasts.
Mass frogging isn't exclusive to Ranger.

Bow and arrow are so massively supported that they get abilities nothing else gets. And while the word support is technically true the burst damage is still very high and consistent with Zeal and 10K. And I promise, a Wisdom of 90 with all the appropriate gear and enhancements (WITHOUT twisting dc's from destinies) is no fail on R10. On a side note FvS is the way to go, but not pure. Though the new enhancement tree means even rangers can get in on the action even though they'll be lesser if pure.


They didn't say DCs were bad, they said DPS is bad.

A para archer can do fine.

Is there a reason archer shouldn't have competitive DPS? b/c it's not in the same league as top ranged options.

It shouldn't be in the same league as the top options if you have no fail paralyze/terror. But it's still pretty **** close. Don't forget that paralyze makes things stand still and Pin after that makes them helpless. ****loads of damage to be had there.


While you are right, you can dump DPS and make a toon that does all this, there are better options for CC in this game.

Our guild used to have a CC AA, it was as effective as you say but not as good as those other options. He made it work by being primarily druid so he could also raid heal.

Options are good and you should be able to build a bow user that's the best ranged DPS in the game. Right now for whatever reason the devs disagree and have given that role to shurikens.

A druid based AA is terrible. FvS gets wis or cha to atk and damage even prior to the new tree. Mine can raid heal just fine with 12 fvs levels and pulling 90 ranged power from 10k stars while manyshot is on cooldown is huge. First damage number fully buffed is 500-600 with 248% doubleshot. This is why I said people don't really think about what's possible.

At the end of the day the best "ranger" isn't a Ranger, so OP has some arguments. But bows are just fine as they are if you put things together correctly.

This is almost identical to what I run with the exception of being in Fury rather than DC https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/494673-Poppy-s-Para

[janave]

But bows are just fine as they are if you put things together correctly.
(Words...)


Most of the things you mention are entirely remote from "Bows" as in the item itself... they are either stuff work independently from Bows, or use some very niche specific build / ability sets. There are other aspiring bow builds, and they are better off throwing shurikens or using an xbow, especially a repeating one.

[Bluenoser]

Going back to the OP's first post, I'm surprised you're having that much trouble at lvl 12 running even heroic hard. Don't mean to sound like a jerk, but with that gear, PLs, etc, etc it should be a cake-walk (not a shuriken-level cake-walk, but still very do-able). Did you make sure to toggle on IPS or Archer's Focus after getting them? (as auto-granted Ranger feats, they are the kind of thing one could forget to slap onto your toolbar and activate!)

You could improve your weapon a bit by using sapphire sting from TOEE, but I usually just needed the Silver Longbow to get it done. I was underwhelmed by my Lit II GS longbow--the fire rate is too slow to proc lightning strike regularly, and the Barovian bow is actually a better DR breaker (with comparable base damage). Getting good deadly and doubleshot items are a very big help, however.

The biggest improvement, though, would be to change up your enhancement layout--personally, I found AA was pretty poor dps in low and mid-heroic levels, especially if you're running with Paralyzing or Terror arrows (though there's nothing like fearing a fear reaper!). If you go with elemental damage arrows instead, go with just one element (I like electric, acid, or force), take 2d6 elemental damage at the 2nd and higher tiers, and max out your related spellpower gear--the cannith challenge turn-in loot is great for this (bracers that give blur and electric spellpower; boots for acid, stone guard, immunity to slippery surfaces). Elemental imbues can double your dps in the low and mid-heroic levels when done right.

Even better, though, would be to take more in the DWS tree. A lot more. You have only 11 points in DWS, which tells me you don't have Aimed Shot, Killer, Merciful Shot, Leg Shot, or Head Shot, all of which make levelling heroics a breeze. The consistent damage from elemental arrows might be nice, but it's hard to beat Manyshot + Sniper Shot and then Merciful shot while using IPS--almost everything you've lined up should disappear very quickly. And 20 points there opens up the 4th DWS core, which gives +1 critical threat range, 10% fort bypass, and another 1d6 sneak damage--that's massive, on top of the Improved Critical: Ranged feat you can take at lvl 12. With 48 AP to spend by lvl 12, there' no reason you can't spend 22 in AA to get paralyzing arrows, and the other 26 getting the 4th DWS core + killer x3 + Merciful Shot. Personally, I took the tier 5 stuff from DWS at lvl 12, and just used Terror Arrows for crowd control (or elemental imbues for dps) until I had enough AP to get Paralyzing Arrows.

Finally, I'll add that because you went for a max-dex rather than max-wis build, and didn't take any feats to up your Enchantment DCs, you might have some difficulty getting paralyzing (or the various insta-kill) arrows to land at the higher difficulties/levels, so it makes even more sense to emphasize DWS over AA.

Cheers and happy hunting!

[Ausdoerrt]

The biggest improvement, though, would be to change up your enhancement layout--personally, I found AA was pretty poor dps in low and mid-heroic levels, especially if you're running with Paralyzing or Terror arrows (though there's nothing like fearing a fear reaper!). If you go with elemental damage arrows instead, go with just one element (I like electric, acid, or force), take 2d6 elemental damage at the 2nd and higher tiers, and max out your related spellpower gear--the cannith challenge turn-in loot is great for this (bracers that give blur and electric spellpower; boots for acid, stone guard, immunity to slippery surfaces). Elemental imbues can double your dps in the low and mid-heroic levels when done right.

Let me disagree with you here. AA is just fine for low and mid heroics, as good or better than DWS, especially when soloing. I dunno what was the last time you ran one, but since U28 introduced spellpower scaling to AA abilities, the tree is stupidly good in heroics. By level 5, you can have 5d6 elemental damage + 59 spell power slotted + whatever implement bonus - that's a LOT, you'll be 1-2 shotting a majority of trash mobs. It gets a bit worse past lv15 or so, but still holds its own.

Don't get me wrong, DWS is great and probably better for epics, but in heroics, AA rules, plus it's easier to play than DWS.

And on a pure ranger, you'll want both eventually.

[janave]

I know it's in history, that's what I am talking about, were rangers and bows nerfed because of Monkchers? Obviously chuckers are doing fine.

Just guessing, but I dont think so. If i had to make further assumptions, FotW Adrenalin probably plays a part in the design of newer bows. I would prefer to play as DWS in Shadowdancer if all was well.

[Emerge2012]

Most of the things you mention are entirely remote from "Bows" as in the item itself... they are either stuff work independently from Bows, or use some very niche specific build / ability sets. There are other aspiring bow builds, and they are better off throwing shurikens or using an xbow, especially a repeating one.

The entire Arcane Archer tree is dedicated purely to bow use and works with nothing else. Also great xbow fusilade is superior to anything shuriken can produce, even though neither of them can heal worth a **** and bring nothing to the table besides ranged DPS.

[janave]

The entire Arcane Archer tree is dedicated purely to bow use and works with nothing else. Also great xbow fusilade is superior to anything shuriken can produce, even though neither of them can heal worth a **** and bring nothing to the table besides ranged DPS.

That's all good, but still disconnected from the theme "..Recent named Bow's are bad (rare exceptions*)". :)