Stream of Many Eyes

[macubrae]

While I was watching Wizards of the Coast's Stream of Many Eyes, I couldn't help but wonder why DDO wasn't involved? Was it because DDO isn't 5th Edition? Was DDO asked to participate but couldn't? I understand that DDO can't keep updating to be current with Dungeons & Dragons lore, but being that DDO has so many races, class combinations, access to campaign settings such as Ravenloft, ToEE in Greyhawk, Eberron and Eveningstar in Faerun along with a Monster Manual full of creatures and quests narrated by Gary Gygax, why can't we get any love from Seattle?

[Tyrande]

DDO isn't 5th edition. 5th edition is very different from 3.5:

5th edition; for example, nerfed warlocks pretty badly:

No more blast shapes like Eldritch Cone, Eldritch Chain or Eldritch Doom.
No more UMD skills. i.e. you cannot use a magic missiles, fireball (unless fiendish) or web wand from UMD; and no more using heal wands or scrolls with UMD.
No more pact damage
No more meta-magics feats,i.e., no Maximize, Empower, etc. for warlocks.
No more instant kills. Spells like finger of death only deal certain range of negative damage.
From levels 2 to 10, you only got 2 spell slots per short rest. (I mentioned two spell slots because wizards and sorcerers got like 15 spell slots at level 10, for example!!!) Once those are gone, you are back down to casting Eldritch Blast over and over, but without the pact damage or the blast shapes. Plus, EB needs to roll a dice to hit to cause damage, like regular weapons do.


Also, with 5th edition, there are no feats unless you are willing to give up two level up stat points...
and fighter do have second wind, which can heal themselves... and lucky feats to re-roll the dice if they don't like the current rolls.

There are divination wizards who can roll two dice for everyone in every day encounter and can change fate of a miss/non-critical to a critical or vice versa.

and monks: No evasion until level 7. i.e. people can't splash 2 levels of monk and get two free feats and evasion with 5.0.

There are also help actions, ready an action (triggers). I don't know how DDO can program that...if DDO ever move up to 5.0.

[simo0208]

DDO isn't 5th edition. 5th edition is very different from 3.5:

5th edition; for example, nerfed warlocks pretty badly:

No more blast shapes like Eldritch Cone, Eldritch Chain or Eldritch Doom.
No more UMD skills. i.e. you cannot use a magic missiles, fireball (unless fiendish) or web wand from UMD; and no more using heal wands or scrolls with UMD.
No more pact damage
No more meta-magics feats,i.e., no Maximize, Empower, etc. for warlocks.
No more instant kills. Spells like finger of death only deal certain range of negative damage.
From levels 2 to 10, you only got 2 spell slots per short rest. (I mentioned two spell slots because wizards and sorcerers got like 15 spell slots at level 10, for example!!!) Once those are gone, you are back down to casting Eldritch Blast over and over, but without the pact damage or the blast shapes. Plus, EB needs to roll a dice to hit to cause damage, like regular weapons do.


Also, with 5th edition, there are no feats unless you are willing to give up two level up stat points...
and fighter do have second wind, which can heal themselves... and lucky feats to re-roll the dice if they don't like the current rolls.

There are divination wizards who can roll two dice for everyone in every day encounter and can change fate of a miss/non-critical to a critical or vice versa.

and monks: No evasion until level 7. i.e. people can't splash 2 levels of monk and get two free feats and evasion with 5.0.

There are also help actions, ready an action (triggers). I don't know how DDO can program that...if DDO ever move up to 5.0.

The better answer is that DDO is a “licensed” product not affiliated with WotC in any meaningful way beyond use of their name, worlds, and the rough outline of the ruleset at the time.

[LeoLionxxx]

The better answer is that DDO is a “licensed” product not affiliated with WotC in any meaningful way beyond use of their name, worlds, and the rough outline of the ruleset at the time.

They are (kind of) advertised on their website though.

On this page, they're ... #12. Kind of hidden, but still there. Also, someone should probobly tell them that DDO is no longer owned by Turbine.
http://dnd.wizards.com/products/digital-games/pcmac

On the main "Digital games" page they're a little more prominent.
http://dnd.wizards.com/products/digital-games

The description is out of date though:



DDO Unlimited delivers free-to-play, heart-pounding MMORPG gameplay, state-of-the-art graphics, and a rich set of features that rivals premium subscription-based MMOs.

What is DDO?

Fight for power and glory in Dungeons and Dragons Online: Eberron Unlimited, the intense action MMO that’s completely Free to Play! Build your hero from classic D&D races and classes and battle through hundreds of hours of exciting adventure based game play. Explore killer dungeons and glorious landscapes bursting with ferocious monsters alone or with friends and become a powerful champion in the sun-drenched magical city of Stormreach.

Create a Unique Hero from 11 Classes, 8 Races and Billions of Combinations of Skills, Feats and Custom Appearances
Innovative Real-Time Combat provides Intense Action at Every Turn
Explore Deadly Dungeons filled with Fiendish Traps and Classic D&D Monsters
Play Your Way - Alone or with Friends
Shop for Weapons, Magic & more with the built-in Store



I will say, though, parts of that description are spot on :)
http://dnd.wizards.com/products/digital-games/pcmac/dungeons-dragons-online

[Ausdoerrt]

^ That "digital" page doesn't even have NWN2 or IWD2 or TOEE, which are some of the best adaptations of 3.0/3.5e...

[Garthog77]

I played 5th edition briefly, did not like it. Not as much as I disliked 4th edition, but still did not like it, I sincerely hope DDO never changes to 5th edition type rules. Personally I think 3rd/3.5 got it just about right, and pathfinder perfected it even more ... sadly my current situation does not allow me to play any edition, but if I could arrange it, I would prefer pathfinder to any other system ... only real bad part about pathfinder to me is their fiction (novels, short stories) are terrible and boring.

[simo0208]

I played 5th edition briefly, did not like it. Not as much as I disliked 4th edition, but still did not like it, I sincerely hope DDO never changes to 5th edition type rules. Personally I think 3rd/3.5 got it just about right, and pathfinder perfected it even more ... sadly my current situation does not allow me to play any edition, but if I could arrange it, I would prefer pathfinder to any other system ... only real bad part about pathfinder to me is their fiction (novels, short stories) are terrible and boring.



Have tried to play pathfinder online through roll20? Even when we play in person we use it now.

[AbyssalMage]

I played 5th edition briefly, did not like it. Not as much as I disliked 4th edition, but still did not like it, I sincerely hope DDO never changes to 5th edition type rules. Personally I think 3rd/3.5 got it just about right, and pathfinder perfected it even more ... sadly my current situation does not allow me to play any edition, but if I could arrange it, I would prefer pathfinder to any other system ... only real bad part about pathfinder to me is their fiction (novels, short stories) are terrible and boring.
Honestly I find 5th Edition to be more powerful (for certain classes) than others. Much the same way casters are stronger in 2nd/3rd editions. The pendulum just swung in the extreme opposite direction when they tried to achieve balance (which is always the first sign that you messed up).

Personally I have fallen out of favor with D20 systems. Even while playing DDO I am amazed at the number of times I have sub-10 rolls (before modifiers). So I doubt I would enjoy Pathfinder any more pleasing.

[cpw_acc]

D&D 3/3.5 rules were OK, but completely fell apart at higher levels. It required huge amounts of DM balancing (read: "fudging") to make the game playable for a diverse PC party if you actually tried to use the rules-as-written. (Otherwise spellcasters just rolled over every encounter while melee characters sulked in the corner).

DDO is roughly based on 3/3.5 on the surface but pretty much had to incorporate this fudging into the behind-the-scenes rules precisely because of these problems.

4th edition was, in my opinion, bad. It tried to fix the balance issues with its scaling system and the way it used class 'powers'. But the result was that every class took about 10 pages of power descriptions and all ended up 'feeling the same' anyway. It also stifled creativity by making it ridiculously time-consuming for a DM (or even Wizards) to come up with anything original.

5th edition went back to good old 3/3.5 rules but with enough tweaks to help with the balance issues thanks to its 'bounded accuracy' (which basically means 'don't let the numbers get too big') and with its use of spell-scaling and spell-slots. It also allowed creativity back to the table with a community capable of home-brewing again.

Personally, 5th edition is a success as far as I'm concerned.

Having said all that, DDO is what it is. It is different to D&D and I can't expect it to follow the rules exactly (which would never work as an MMO) but still uses enough of the basic themes to be recognisably "D&D".

[glmfw1]

D&D 3/3.5 rules were OK, but completely fell apart at higher levels. It required huge amounts of DM balancing (read: "fudging") to make the game playable for a diverse PC party if you actually tried to use the rules-as-written. (Otherwise spellcasters just rolled over every encounter while melee characters sulked in the corner).
DDO is roughly based on 3/3.5 on the surface but pretty much had to incorporate this fudging into the behind-the-scenes rules precisely because of these problems.
Fair analysis. In general I thought 3.5 was good. I think tweaking of high level magic could have been done for 3.75e had it happened (not sure what they did in Pathfinder)

... was...
I believe the gaming world introduced a new numbering system that goes, 1,2,3,3.5,5,6 etc

5th edition went back to good old 3/3.5 rules but with enough tweaks to help with the balance issues thanks to its 'bounded accuracy' (which basically means 'don't let the numbers get too big') and with its use of spell-scaling and spell-slots. It also allowed creativity back to the table with a community capable of home-brewing again.
Personally, 5th edition is a success as far as I'm concerned.
It seemed to me to be a bit too stripped back, losing a lot of the flavour that 3/3.5 had. Easy enough for experienced players/DMs to find a comfortable mid-point between the two, though, and 5 is straightforward enough for new people to jump into.

Having said all that, DDO is what it is. It is different to D&D and I can't expect it to follow the rules exactly (which would never work as an MMO) but still uses enough of the basic themes to be recognisably "D&D".
DDO definitely feels D&Dish. I think the 3.5 ruleset still makes for a good basis for a game, but computers have far more processing capability than a group of un-networked humans sitting around a table, so can go a lot further in the same direction with those rules. I think all the mechanics need to be under review on a continuous basis by the Devs to ensure that things are roughly balanced and the flavour of D&D is retained, rather than the flavour being lost due to overly strict adherence to 3.5 rules in some places, while completely bypassing them in others.

[Cantor]

I played second edition in my dnd heyday. I like one thing from third and that's getting rid of thac0 (it's just confusing), but that is also what kind of uncapped everything and caused the number inflation. I do like the advantage/disadvantage method of 5th ed as it vastly simplifies things, but I'd have to do some statistics to see how equivalent it is to the old bonuses.

[macubrae]

I just wanted to know if DDO could have been part of the Stream of Many Eyes. If there was opportunity to be included. Being that DDO reached out and got MageArcana to play in the assumption that some of the players watched their live stream, I watched a few episodes but I like lots of pen and paper banter. The name of the thread was 'Stream of Many Eyes' not what D&D edition is best. Thank you all for responding, but forget I asked.