Current melle build trends?

[Ausdoerrt]

Hi everyone! I've been away for some time, so my characters have been left dusting, and now I'm gradually dusting them off to bring 'em up to speed.

One of them is a human paladin, second life, build with a focus on Vanguard back when the tree was just released. In terms of gear, he's pretty well-stacked with bastard swords, shields and two-handers and heavy armor up until about level 20 (including some Eveningstar/CitW gear). Not much for 20-30. +2 tomes across the board with no plans to invest in store-bought tomes.

The idea is to HTR him one last time and "park" him in the epics to run the occasional raid and also to support other toons' needs in terms of loot and whatnot. So the focus is on epic viability (doesn't have to be high-skull Reaper, but should hold its own in EE).

What would be the recommended build / direction for the build? Should I stick with S+B or switch to THF? Ditch Vanguard for more Defender / KoTC? Splash some other classes like FvS / Cleric to take advantage of the upcoming WarSoul/Cleric updates? Or just switch to a melee FvS altogether? (I want a melee toon, but it doesn't have to be a paladin).

Looking forward to your suggestions!

[cru121]

there were a few threads about endgame DPS recently, on this forum and elsewhere.

TL;DR version:
* Silent Avenger set
* Scion of the Ethereal Plane
* rangers, monks, fighters, rogues (melee)
* sneak attack
* prowess filigree set
* LD mostly

did I miss anything?

[skorpeon]

I would suggest to try to get an epic past life under your belt, I guess you will end up in the divine sphere as a paladin. Try to get your 6 mil xp there and get one EPL. That will give you a bit more power in heroics straight off. Then do a heroic TR and think about an iconic PL. Maybe Purple dragon knight fighter? Would work with the gear you already have too.

I find Epics fairly quick to level by joining groups that are doing daily EN runs and doing some slayers (Orchard for example).

Doing reaper in Epic will be very tough without good gear and past lives I think.

[Ausdoerrt]

Thanks for the insight! I guess getting an EPL makes sense seeing as the toon is at lvl 25-ish and has 2/3 destinies maxxed.

I guess the main question for me is whether to change up the playstyle / weapon fighting style, as pure paladin S+B with a focus on DPS doesn't seem to be working too well for me right now.

[Morroiel]

Thanks for the insight! I guess getting an EPL makes sense seeing as the toon is at lvl 25-ish and has 2/3 destinies maxxed.

I guess the main question for me is whether to change up the playstyle / weapon fighting style, as pure paladin S+B with a focus on DPS doesn't seem to be working too well for me right now.

Pure paladins are underperforming significantly atm (even MCed ones have a hard time). I'd recommend switching to twf tempest, as pls represent less of total % maxed out dps.

That being said, I'd recommend you grind out displacement clickies from shroud (heroic). Getting even 4-5 of these, will make your life significantly easier as a melee while doing your various trs (or at endgame).

1. Grind out displacement clickies
2. Grab 3x doublestrike pls
3. Grab 1x sneak of shadows heroic rogue pl unlock (for synergy with scion of ethereal)
4. Go to cap as a dex based tempest
5. Stay at endgame or grind out some more epls for epic completionist (honestly I'd just stay at endgame if I were you)

Edit: If you are dead set on S&B or THF (i.e. you do not want to do twf) then I'd recommend either 8/6/6 thf maul druid or 18 fighter / 2 monk thf.

[scipiojedi]

1. Grind out displacement clickies



Well there goes a year of his life

[Cantor]

The first response is pretty much the meta if you wanna play at cap. Solo is going to be tough at higher levels with almost no PL. A lot of the meta DPS is flimsy and gets a lot of defense from past lives, so you are looking to always have cc.

There's pretty much no way you're going to stick with S+B, a shield is not good DPS and tanks 100% require past lives (blah blah blah, my first life tank can do whatever, but seriously the PRR and AC is too much).

I'd go something with evasion, since silent avenger is light armor anyway.

[Tyrande]

Hi everyone! [...]
Looking forward to your suggestions!

Hi there. I would say the current FOTM is Monk, Monk, Monk.

Why Monk? Monk got the best Raveloft gear drops and setup. Example: Duality, the moral compass.

Current EE and Reaper melee monks have PRR, AC, and also some form of crowd control, tactics mitigation, self healing and instant kills available.

PRR + AC: get the 9x divine EPL and 9x martial EPL and the 50 PRR or 52 PRR outfit and other PRR items. AC due to high wisdom and high dexterity combination.
Ninja Spy allows to use any Ki weapon with dexterity, so only needs to focus on dexterity to hit and damage. Concentration and wisdom for other things.

Crowd Control/Tactics: Jade Strike, Stunning Fists and some GMOF strikes. Soul of the Elements: Legendary Perfect Pinnacle.

Self Healing: Healing ki, Curse of Healing and Cocoon/Halfling dragonmarks

Instant Kills: EIN, single target erasure with void strikes, quivering palms, and potential mass frog if good mana item(s) are available.

Plus: monks can range very well with a shuriken and a focus item like the Celestia or TOEE crafted SS if some monsters are not reachable by melee. This is using Ten Thousand Stars as they are ki weapons.

[SpartanKiller13]

Well there goes a year of his life

My current life I dipped Warlock 5 just to get the T5 Displacement clicky lol. I don't have a year to grind XD Also it works pretty well with Pally 15, for Holy Sword + Zeal.

[Cantor]

My current life I dipped Warlock 5 just to get the T5 Displacement clicky lol. I don't have a year to grind XD Also it works pretty well with Pally 15, for Holy Sword + Zeal.

Granted you get some aura procs and temp hp, but you could just splash wiz and get displacement without giving up having a useful T5.

[Ausdoerrt]

So I guess the general consensus is to give up on the paladin and work on the monk (I have a first-life henshin in the stable as well).

And yea, I kind of do have a bit of flavor-based dislike for TWF builds.

While we're at it, how is melee FvS doing these days? Worth a try?

[Morroiel]

Well there goes a year of his life

It literally takes 1 hour per clicky on average (assuming you already have mats for blanks or buy blanks from people for plat) for me. It is even faster if you have a group that's willing to pass you shards.

Now a new player could probably expect slower completion times, so lets double that to 2 hours per clicky. 10 Hours of grinding for 5x clickies, which represents a significant survivability boost is worth it.

[Cantor]

So I guess the general consensus is to give up on the paladin and work on the monk (I have a first-life henshin in the stable as well).

And yea, I kind of do have a bit of flavor-based dislike for TWF builds.

While we're at it, how is melee FvS doing these days? Worth a try?

melee fvs is solid with healing, the choice of wis or cha to hit/dmg, and a big boost of hps. With casterstat to damage you'll have DCs for some cc (cometfall and greater command).

You just need access to good enhancements...

FVS are seeing some revamp next update, it remains to be seen if it will be worth going warsoul and not doing vistani. If really opposed to twf you are probably looking at a maul build here, if you don't mind running an iconic and either taking the splash or a +1 heart. For an eberron race falchions might be viable in warsoul after the changes. The iconic splash will get either evasion or heavy armor if you go that route.

I just did a pure fvs vistani and it was great. If you disallow twf, I'd go maul on a multiclass... maybe even a wolf maul. If you disallow multiclass and twf, you could do falchion and hope that the next update is kind to warsoul.

[Morroiel]

So I guess the general consensus is to give up on the paladin and work on the monk (I have a first-life henshin in the stable as well).

And yea, I kind of do have a bit of flavor-based dislike for TWF builds.

While we're at it, how is melee FvS doing these days? Worth a try?

What about 18 Fighter / 2 monk?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8qbhCvqWSg

Or if you want to keep heals and don't want to twitch fight, 8 druid / 6 cleric / 6 fighter silvanus thf maul build?

[Tyrande]

So I guess the general consensus is to give up on the paladin and work on the monk (I have a first-life henshin in the stable as well).

And yea, I kind of do have a bit of flavor-based dislike for TWF builds.

While we're at it, how is melee FvS doing these days? Worth a try?

Well, FvS is getting a new tree and existing tree revamps next update. I have a melee FvS splashing two levels of monk and I love it. This, of course, meaning that you need to pick up Wisdom instead of Charisma for level ups. Also, use Knowledge of Battle: Your faith allows you to use your Wisdom bonus for to-hit and damage purposes with your deities' Favored Weapon if it is higher than your Strength bonus. This benefit only applies if your Favored Soul level is equal to or greater than half of your total Heroic Character level.

Stout of Heart: You gain 10 Hit Points per Favored Soul or Epic level

if you're going melee.

The instant kills implosion, destruction and mass frogs are also awesome (if your use wisdom also for spell DC and mana) plus parties welcoming the FvS.

However, since you're going melee, I think you should pick up the bacon of hope tree instead, that gives you a constant healing wall.

[Renvar]

So I guess the general consensus is to give up on the paladin and work on the monk (I have a first-life henshin in the stable as well).

And yea, I kind of do have a bit of flavor-based dislike for TWF builds.

While we're at it, how is melee FvS doing these days? Worth a try?

Q,

A lot of the advice you are getting in this thread is meta gaming reaper DPS advice.

You came in talking about a heavy armor pally vanguard build. That is a more tanky DPS build. It was never top DPS, even when you were playing before. It is more of a moderate DPS, moderate CC, mid-high survivability build.

You will find that same build works in Elite/EE and R1. The soloing will be tougher in epics/legendary on the higher end, but in pugs or guild runs you will contribute and do fine. It would be mainly about getting some updated gear. You don't need a ton of PL's invested. If you do want PL's, I'd recommend Divine Sphere for PRR and Martial Sphere for AC.

If you want to go more of a full DPS character, then you need to leave behind the pally, the shield and the heavy armor. TWF 20 Ranger Tempest is probably top shelf. Using Calamity from Strahd raid (and the easily acquired Morninglord/Nightmother khopesh before that). 20 Monk handwraps is probably second place. SWF or TWF 18/2 Kensai/Monk is very strong using Khopesh. All of these are evasion builds using as much dodge as possible for defense along with displacement, ghostly, blurry gear. Anything that avoids getting hit. Most of the Epic PL's (besides the 3 martial EPL for doublestrike) are more defense oriented. Most of the Iconic PL (besides the 3 scourge PL for doublestrike) are defensive oriented. If you want to invest that kind of time, that's where your best DPS return is. If not, it's not costing that much DPS. Your doublestrike will be off by about 10% vs. someone who has those PL's. Your target content wasn't high skulls reaper, so I think you will perform just fine with a strong base build, strong gear, and a play style that matches the build. (Play style that matches the build is crucial. I see people playing full DPS dodge builds like they play their heavy armor tanks. It doesn't work. Know what your build does well and doesn't and play to the strengths and minimize the weaknesses)

EDIT:

Melee FvS - can be VERY FUN. It won't be top shelf melee, but it will be acceptable. I would recommend this:

20 FvS with Vol deity, wisdom to hit/damage, use the vistani tree and wield daggers. Acceptable DPS with full spell casting.

or

14 FvS/6 Fighter(or Ranger) with Vol as your deity. Using Daggers again. Combine the Vistani Knife Fighter Tree with Kensai or Tempest. Do it as a wisdom build again. Then you will have solid DPS, you will still have an usable DC in Elite and lower for Greater Command and Cometfall. You will have Heal and cure spells for self (and party) healing. Plenty of defensive buffs.

For both, choose the HP option at level 7 to give you a bump to your HP.

[Wipey]

I guess I am gonna have to be the one person telling you to play whatever you want to play.
If you wanna play s+b pally, go for it. Gear up, play smart. Blitz, fit tactics on gear, Direcharge, get some hjeal amp and devotion. Toss lohs or cures on others when needed. I'd second couple displace clickies suggestion, you can get 2 mins on staves on pure pally btw. Mistake is going too defensive on paladin.

Absolutes about "viability" on these forums are sometimes rather funny.

[Ausdoerrt]

Thanks, Asheras! The idea is to refresh the toon a bit and maybe try out some of the new "toys" in the process. I'm not really in favor of going full DPS, I rather enjoy having a support role on this toon as well. So it's kind of a chance to refresh the build a bit, since it could use the extra +2 ability points from another TR anyway.

But I'll think on what you said and maybe stick with S+B after all, just spice it up a bit with another race or weapon type.

EDIT: Those FvS ideas sound fun as well! How about splashing 6 monk (Ninja Spy) to go with Visani?


However, since you're going melee, I think you should pick up the bacon of hope tree instead, that gives you a constant healing wall.
I hope that was intentional and NOT a typo :D

[Tyrande]

I guess I am gonna have to be the one person telling you to play whatever you want to play.
[...] Mistake is going too defensive on paladin.

Absolutes about "viability" on these forums are sometimes rather funny.

S+B paladins are fine. Its just that during higher reaper dungeons, the monsters hit something between 1000 to 6000, or sometimes more; and of course SorJek was doing 10000 to 20000 damage a pot.

I was told there's no way to tank that unless you have 400 (?) PRR and 350AC(?)

Best way to avoid getting one-shot is to have good CC and good damage avoidance. i.e. dodge, elusive target, incorporal, etc; or using ranged attacks.
Monks can get 45% dodge easily, and 25% incorporal easily.

[walkin_dude]

It literally takes 1 hour per clicky on average (assuming you already have mats for blanks or buy blanks from people for plat) for me. It is even faster if you have a group that's willing to pass you shards.

Now a new player could probably expect slower completion times, so lets double that to 2 hours per clicky. 10 Hours of grinding for 5x clickies, which represents a significant survivability boost is worth it.

So you are going with ... 20 minutes per completion? If so, add two timer bypasses to the list of needed materials. When I was actually running Shrouds, three runs took six days.

If you do all of the runs at the same time, you'll need around 14 timer bypasses, total.

I do have an innate bias against timer bypasses. Hate those things. I tend to think they're responsible for a lot of the less-desirable things in DDO for the last several years.

[Kaboom2112]

Absolutes about "viability" on these forums are sometimes rather funny.

Exactly. Pretty much anything can domintate EE/R1.

If you want to contribute more than average in higher skulls it's a different story.

[Morroiel]

So you are going with ... 20 minutes per completion? If so, add two timer bypasses to the list of needed materials. When I was actually running Shrouds, three runs took six days.

If you do all of the runs at the same time, you'll need around 14 timer bypasses, total.

I do have an innate bias against timer bypasses. Hate those things. I tend to think they're responsible for a lot of the less-desirable things in DDO for the last several years.

You dont need to complete as you farm part 1, 2, and 3 chests. No timer bypasses needed.

[SpartanKiller13]

Granted you get some aura procs and temp hp, but you could just splash wiz and get displacement without giving up having a useful T5.

Well, as a off-tank what T5 am I giving up? Sacred Defender gives +25 PRR/MRR, +3 Lay on Hands, and... +6 Strength?

ES gives +19 PRR/MRR, +75% hate, permanent Shield, +3d4 onhit, +2 Con, Con x2 as temps in an aura, and of course the T5.

You can also splash Cleric 5 for Luck Domain SLA these days, but I started this life before Domains came out. And personally, having ~150 temp HP aura is very nice and Shining Through is great for burst self-"healing" in Reaper.

Wizzy 5 has the drawback of it costing more (30 SP/min with extend vs 6 SP/min), because you're casting (Archmage SLA requires Wizard 6 which you can't afford). Also, Int vs Cha as a casting stat means you don't get nearly as many spell points (I have high Cha as a Pally anyway). And yes, I do run out of blue bar reasonably often, thanks to Resurrection and Consecration twist.


It literally takes 1 hour per clicky on average (assuming you already have mats for blanks or buy blanks from people for plat) for me. It is even faster if you have a group that's willing to pass you shards.

Now a new player could probably expect slower completion times, so lets double that to 2 hours per clicky. 10 Hours of grinding for 5x clickies, which represents a significant survivability boost is worth it.


You dont need to complete as you farm part 1, 2, and 3 chests. No timer bypasses needed.

Wow, this would be great for me! I don't have a single Displacement clicky because they always look like a bunch of work. Large part of why I build how I do lol.

So just do the first three parts and reset? Are you soloing it or do you get a party?

Are there specific recipes that are cheaper, or like just go with whatever?

[Fivetigers33]

Wow, this would be great for me! I don't have a single Displacement clicky because they always look like a bunch of work. Large part of why I build how I do lol.

So just do the first three parts and reset? Are you soloing it or do you get a party?

Any level 30 toon should be able to solo it. Bring friends for more mats.

[SpartanKiller13]

Any level 30 toon should be able to solo it. Bring friends for more mats.

I shall have to do this then :)

[Fivetigers33]

I shall have to do this then :)

Let me add one caveat before you get too excited. The difficulty you run on will depend on your ranged dps to take down the crystal in phase 2. So your beast melee build that destroys portals in 3 hits might take longer than you would like to take down the crystal in phase 2. It's been awhile since I was in there solo, so I don't remember exactly how hard it is to take down the crystal if you aren't a ranged/caster toon.

If you are a ranged toon, or can get one decent ranged toon to come with you, elite is a breeze.

[GramercyRiff]

Q,

A lot of the advice you are getting in this thread is meta gaming reaper DPS advice.

You came in talking about a heavy armor pally vanguard build. That is a more tanky DPS build. It was never top DPS, even when you were playing before. It is more of a moderate DPS, moderate CC, mid-high survivability build.

You will find that same build works in Elite/EE and R1. The soloing will be tougher in epics/legendary on the higher end, but in pugs or guild runs you will contribute and do fine. It would be mainly about getting some updated gear. You don't need a ton of PL's invested. If you do want PL's, I'd recommend Divine Sphere for PRR and Martial Sphere for AC.

If you want to go more of a full DPS character, then you need to leave behind the pally, the shield and the heavy armor. TWF 20 Ranger Tempest is probably top shelf. Using Calamity from Strahd raid (and the easily acquired Morninglord/Nightmother khopesh before that). 20 Monk handwraps is probably second place. SWF or TWF 18/2 Kensai/Monk is very strong using Khopesh. All of these are evasion builds using as much dodge as possible for defense along with displacement, ghostly, blurry gear. Anything that avoids getting hit. Most of the Epic PL's (besides the 3 martial EPL for doublestrike) are more defense oriented. Most of the Iconic PL (besides the 3 scourge PL for doublestrike) are defensive oriented. If you want to invest that kind of time, that's where your best DPS return is. If not, it's not costing that much DPS. Your doublestrike will be off by about 10% vs. someone who has those PL's. Your target content wasn't high skulls reaper, so I think you will perform just fine with a strong base build, strong gear, and a play style that matches the build. (Play style that matches the build is crucial. I see people playing full DPS dodge builds like they play their heavy armor tanks. It doesn't work. Know what your build does well and doesn't and play to the strengths and minimize the weaknesses)

EDIT:

Melee FvS - can be VERY FUN. It won't be top shelf melee, but it will be acceptable. I would recommend this:

20 FvS with Vol deity, wisdom to hit/damage, use the vistani tree and wield daggers. Acceptable DPS with full spell casting.

or

14 FvS/6 Fighter(or Ranger) with Vol as your deity. Using Daggers again. Combine the Vistani Knife Fighter Tree with Kensai or Tempest. Do it as a wisdom build again. Then you will have solid DPS, you will still have an usable DC in Elite and lower for Greater Command and Cometfall. You will have Heal and cure spells for self (and party) healing. Plenty of defensive buffs.

For both, choose the HP option at level 7 to give you a bump to your HP.

What's a good low level epic dagger to use? I have an Envenomed Blade with +4 mythic bonus. Anything better than that?

edit: I still need to upgrade it though so any suggestions are appreciated.

edit2: lol it's also a short sword as I see now, so yeah...good actual dagger? Thanks

[Tyrande]

What's a good low level epic dagger to use? I have an Envenomed Blade with +4 mythic bonus. Anything better than that?

Yes, there are a lot of level 20ish daggers: Sacrificial Dagger (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Sacrificial_Dagger)
and Dagger of the High Priestess (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Blade_of_the_High_Priestess).
They both can come with mythic +4.

and both are from MOTU.

[Fivetigers33]

What's a good low level epic dagger to use? I have an Envenomed Blade with +4 mythic bonus. Anything better than that?

edit: I still need to upgrade it though so any suggestions are appreciated.

Envenomed Blade is a short sword. The Epic Envenomed Blade is quite nice, but it's also a short sword.

For daggers ML 21 Drow Dagger of the Weapon Master is probably your best bet for dps.

The next update is going to have a new ML 21 dagger too as well as a new Crystal Cover dagger that you can probably get for level 20.

[GramercyRiff]

Ok cool so there are some options. I think I had a Drow weapon master dagger but sold it. At any rate thanks for the suggestions. Looks like there are some good options here. Thanks folks.

[SpartanKiller13]

Let me add one caveat before you get too excited. The difficulty you run on will depend on your ranged dps to take down the crystal in phase 2. So your beast melee build that destroys portals in 3 hits might take longer than you would like to take down the crystal in phase 2. It's been awhile since I was in there solo, so I don't remember exactly how hard it is to take down the crystal if you aren't a ranged/caster toon.

If you are a ranged toon, or can get one decent ranged toon to come with you, elite is a breeze.

That's a fair point. I'm a melee with reasonable DPS (off-tank off-healer) so I'll ask around first. Or use a thrower lol, and bank on Blitz's Ranged Power + Haste boosts.

[Morroiel]

That's a fair point. I'm a melee with reasonable DPS (off-tank off-healer) so I'll ask around first. Or use a thrower lol, and bank on Blitz's Ranged Power + Haste boosts.

I literally have done it with a second life barbarian at cap before solo (with loot boxes). Crystal on elite in heroic has like 2k hp if that. If it really is that BIG of a problem, you can always go in GMoF for EiN.

At cap even in off destiny, you should be absolutely demolishing with your melee dps anyways relative to the heroic elite shroud content.

The hardest part imo is part 2 mostly because theres a few tricks to learn how to kill the shroud mini bosses. My personal suggestion is to try to use corners, etc. to pull them apart. On the other hand, you can always kill them one at a time removing their lifelink guard.

[FlavoredSoul]

Strongest meta melee builds right now are TWF Tempest, Kensai in general, and wraps monks, avoid Qstaff monks because they are extremely gimp even before their recent nerf.

[Selvera]

What's a good low level epic....

Drow weaponmaster. It's essentially the best low level epic for most weapons (some get upgrades from CitW, but that's 2 levels higher).

Thunderforge is decent alternative for many weapons if you don't want to invest in making your weapon sentient.

In terms of crystal in part 2 shroud; EiN works if you can live with making your build centered.

[Ausdoerrt]

Strongest meta melee builds right now are TWF Tempest, Kensai in general, and wraps monks, avoid Qstaff monks because they are extremely gimp even before their recent nerf.

This is actually pretty funny, because I also have a Henshin monk, but I'll be rerolling that to monk/rogue at some point. For now it's a glorified banking toon.

As for the original post, I think I'll be rerolling to a FvS/warlock (ES), weapon style TBD depending on how good the FvS update is.

[Ausdoerrt]

Melee FvS - can be VERY FUN. It won't be top shelf melee, but it will be acceptable. I would recommend this:

20 FvS with Vol deity, wisdom to hit/damage, use the vistani tree and wield daggers. Acceptable DPS with full spell casting.

or

14 FvS/6 Fighter(or Ranger) with Vol as your deity. Using Daggers again. Combine the Vistani Knife Fighter Tree with Kensai or Tempest. Do it as a wisdom build again. Then you will have solid DPS, you will still have an usable DC in Elite and lower for Greater Command and Cometfall. You will have Heal and cure spells for self (and party) healing. Plenty of defensive buffs.

For both, choose the HP option at level 7 to give you a bump to your HP.

Looking more closely at this now. Any reason for WIS over CHA? Wiki claims that FvS now uses the higher of WIS or CHA for spell DCs.

[mr420247]

I'm guessing wis for frog stomp

[Ausdoerrt]

So I've tried out some things on Lammania...

And I've decided that I'll go Aasimar, pure FvS, WIS based, with 41 in Vistani tree, with SWF focus (orb in offhand). Thanks a lot to everyone for chiming in!