Cleric 18/rogue 2 build advice?

[wolfy42]

Hello:)

Me and my friends are just about to start playing tonight. We are going to start fresh (as my friends have not played before), with no eq.

I don't think we will be using the auction house either, and only will party with other players who are willing to roleplay (and hopefully have not done the quests before). That means we will normally only be playing with the 3 of us.

I know we are going to need a rogue and a cleric...and I'm going to try and get rid of both of those requirements with my character.

The domains are new since I played last time, so I am thinking of going with a Strength domain.

I'd skip on dex mostly (will hurt my skills a bit), and focus instead on strength/con/int and maybe cha for divine might. (i have 32 point builds).

Strength is for the bonus 2 strength, reflexes based on strength etc. Was thinking of going with the q-staff god as well (believe it gives +6 to hit and +5 to damage.

Looking at cleric and rogue tier 5's, I think for this setup I'm best off with tier 5 thief acrobat. I only need 5 rogue levels for that, and it lets me spread them out to keep the important skills up (disarm traps/pick locks/search probably).

That leaves up to 15 levels left, pretty sure I want at least 12 of them to be cleric. I'm tempted to go 15 cleric/5 rogue to get level 8 spells.

The level 8 spells don't seem....that important though, and going only 12 levels leaves me 8 rogue, easier to keep skills up, and I get improved uncanny dodge.

The other thing I am looking at though is.......12 cleric/5 rogue/3 monk (not sure if light or dark...light seems nice for additional healing though).

3 monk would give me a monk stance (fire probably) for even more strength. more possible staff enhancements for hit/damage, +4% dodge, some ac, +2 to saves vs traps and +4 resist all. 5% movement speed boost, and either light healing or dark (think one makes things vulnerable to sneak attacks).

I'm leaning towards the 12/5/3 combo. Anyone played one or have any advice? Still have not decided on a race yet either. but Dragonborn seems like the obvious choice with +2 str and cha. H-orc might do more damage, and has more feats that boost staff damage, but I don't think I'll have the AP for them.

I'm also considering the new race Asimar, it would get +2 wis and +1 str....so not nearly as good as 2 str/cha but...the wis could let me spend less on wisdom in character creation (spending more on Cha instead). Think it would let me do something like 16 str (10), 08 dex (0), 14 con (06), 14 wis (04), 14 int (06), 14 cha (06).

Eventually I would get a +2 wisdom tome which would let me cast all my cleric spells without boosting wis. Cha isn't super high, but high enough to use divine might with, especially later. Int would give me the skill points I need to keep DD and Search maxed, with extra points in OL probably (could probably get it high enough for most content even with low dex)..might try to get/keep spot up just for convinence though since I have not actually played in awhile (might not remember where all the traps are hehe).

Focus on all strength of course for damage/to hit and reflex saves.

Don't like the only 14 con...but not much I can do about it without sacrificing something (like divine might all together, and turns etc).

What do you guys think, is the 12/5/3 build any good? Any advice?

[slarden]

looks solid, you get your crit range and multiplier from thief acrobat and go strength domain which lets you use str for reflex save, makes you immune to knockdowns and stuns. I would go 14 cleric / 6 rogue though to increase your heal a bit, give you 2 dodge cap increase from the level 6 thief acrobat core and get the stun immunity which requires level 14.

Another option is to go int build mechanic 15 cleric / 5 rogue with insightful reflexes and harper tree for int to hit/damage and kta. This maxes your trapping skills and reflex, if you go war domain you get +1 crit and +1 multiplier from holy sword. you get a max heal spell with 15 levels of cleric. Also mechanic is a great option if you've been away from the game for a while as it's a bit easier to play.

[EllisDee37]

unbongwah posted a fully realized 15/5 cleric/rogue staff build. If I were to critique that build, I don't love the enhancements he chose (dumping the acrobat tree on a stick build!) or the leveling order, but if you're not using the acrobat tier 5s you don't need to rush to your 5th rogue level. His focus is firmly on cleric first, including aura, with your stick fighting ability a distant second. I'm just not a fan of that approach, but if it appeals to you, his build concept looks rock solid. My feeling is that cleric levels all by themselves provide sufficient healing, with no need to spend any AP or feats on healing ability. DPS will be subpar at best, so I would put my focus squarely on improving dps. That means acrobat tier 5s, etc... (EDIT: That's not actually a stick build, which explains my confusion. See a couple posts down here in this thread for clarification.)

I posted a fully realized 9/6/5 Monk/Rogue/Cleric staff build a couple weeks ago, which is sort of similar to what you're looking for but not really since it's not much for healing.

For actual healing ability and decent dps with trapping skills, I'd go 14/6 cleric/rogue, int-based human mechanic with harper tree for know the angles, the int version of divine might. I prefer great crossbows to repeaters.


Trapper Cleric
14/6 Cleric/Rogue
True Neutral Human


Level Order

1. Rogue 6. Cleric 11. Cleric 16. Cleric
2. Cleric 7. Cleric 12. Rogue 17. Cleric
3. Cleric 8. Rogue 13. Cleric 18. Cleric
4. Cleric 9. Cleric 14. Cleric 19. Cleric
5. Rogue 10. Rogue 15. Cleric 20. Rogue


Stats
28pt 32pt 34pt 36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- ---- ---- ---- --------
Strength 10 8 8 10 4: INT
Dexterity 16 16 16 16 +5 8: INT
Constitution 14 16 14 14 12: INT
Intelligence 16 16 18 18 16: INT
Wisdom 8 10 10 10 20: INT
Charisma 8 8 8 8 24: INT
28: INT

Skills
R C C C R C C R C R C R C C C C C C C R
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Disable 4 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Search 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Spot 4 1 3 3 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
UMD 4 4 3 2 2 ½ ½ ½ ½ 6 23
Concent 2 2 2 1 1 2 1 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 21
Open Lo 4 5 4 2 5 20
Jump 4 2 3 1 10
Balance 1 4 5
Heal 2 1 1 4
Bluff 4 4
Diplo 4 4
Intim 4 4
Swim 3 3
Tumble 1 1
------------------------------------------------------------
48 6 6 6 12 6 6 13 7 13 7 13 7 7 7 8 8 8 8 14


Feats

1 : Insightful Reflexes
1 Human : Point Blank Shot
3 : Rapid Shot
6 : Rapid Reload
9 : Precision
12 : Improved Critical: Ranged
15 : Precise Shot
18 : Improved Precise Shot
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Pierce Damage Reduction: Cold Iron
27 Epic : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Embodiment of Law
30 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea

3 Cleric : War Domain OR Luck Domain

2 Deity : Follower of: Sovereign Host
9 Deity : Unyielding Sovereignty


Spells

Cleric Cure Light Wounds, Nightshield, Protection from Evil, Divine Favor, <Any>, <Any>
Cure Moderate Wounds, Find Traps, Resist Energy, <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
Cure Serious Wounds, Magic Circle Against Evil, Protection from Energy, <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
Cure Critical Wounds, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, <Any>, <Any>, <Any>
Mass Cure Light Wounds, Raise Dead, True Seeing, Spell Resistance, <Any>
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds, Heal, Blade Barrier, <Any>, <Any>
Mass Cure Serious Wounds, Greater Restoration, Mass Protection from Elements, Resurrection

Enhancements (80 AP)

Mechanic (39 AP) Arbalester Sharpshooter, Lacerating Shots III, Mechanics III, Awareness III
Sharpshooter
Sharpshooter, Wracking Shot III, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Fletching III, Leg Shot, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Rapid Fire III, Sniper, Mechanical Reloader
Radiant Servant (23 AP) Healing Domain, Pacifism, Positive Energy Burst, Improved Empower Healing Extra Turning III, Wand Mastery III
Improved Turning III
Intense Healing III, Unyielding Sovereignty
Endless Turning I
Harper Agent (12 AP) Agent of Good I Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Versatile Adept II, Know the Angles III
Strategic Combat
Human (6 AP) Damage Boost, Intelligence, Saves Boost Improved Recovery[/color]
Leveling Guide Mec0 Arbalester; Hrp0 Agent of Good I; Hrp1 Strategic Combat
Hrp1 Harper Enchantment; Hrp2 Versatile Adept I, II
Hrp2 Know the Angles I, II, III; Mec1 Lacerating Shots I
Hrp3 Strategic Combat; Mec1 Sharpshooter
Mec1 Lacerating Shots II, III; Mec2 Sharpshooter
Mec1 Mechanics I, II, III; Mec1 Awareness I
Mec1 Awareness II, III; Hum0 Damage Boost; (Bank 1 AP)
Mec3 Sharpshooter; Mec3 Wracking Shot I, II, III
Hum0 Intelligence; Mec3 Intelligence
Reset Human Mechanic (none)
(none)
(none)
Sharpshooter, Fletching III, Intelligence Mec4 Leg Shot; (Bank 2 AP)
Mec5 Mechanical Reloader; Mec5 Sniper; Mec5 Sharpshooter
Mec5 Rapid Fire I, II, III; Hum0 Damage Boost
Hum1 Improved Recovery; Hum0 Intelligence
Hum0 Saves Boost; Rad0 Healing Domain; Rad1 Wand Mastery I, II
Rad1 Wand Mastery III; Rad1 Extra Turning I, II, III
Rad0 Pacifism; Rad2 Improved Turning I, II; Rad0 Positive Energy Burst
Rad3 Unyielding Sovereignty; Rad3 Intense Healing I
Rad3 Intense Healing II, III
Rad2 Improved Turning III; Rad4 Endless Turning I; Rad0 Improved Empower Healing

The Combat Archery feat requires 21 dex, thus the +5 dex tome. If you drop that feat you can get by with a +3 dex tome, needed for Improved Precise Shot. Technically you don't need improved precise shot or even precise shot, so if you can't swing a tome or don't want to sink too many resources into a theorycraft build, take whatever other feats look appealing there.

For destiny, I don't have a firm recommendation. Maybe shadowdancer, twisting pin from shiradi?

EDIT: I forgot to include domains, which are now in there. I agree with slarden that War Domain is your best bet, but Luck Domain is worth considering on a trapper with evasion: Bonus to all saves, and you don't auto-fail saves on a 1. The build takes Human Saves Boost which is essentially "luck domain action boost" so I'd probably stick with War Domain. You could also switch the enhancements to take saves boost before damage boost.

[slarden]

I prefer great crossbows to repeaters.

I definitely agree especially once you have tier 5 in mechanic. At lower levels I would find a vorpal repeater and use that.

[Silverleafeon]

If you are looking for traps & healing, consider a pure artificer build.

They do heal well enough, though you might be pressed for plat at times assuming you are not using shared plat banking?

Most any build will feel the early pressures of not enough plat for stacks of every type of potion in the early heroics.

Recent changes to arty trees yield some new interesting builds, yet even long ago, arty toons healed well.

The Asimar race has healing hands which is very strong with most builds.
Highly recommended.

[unbongwah]

unbongwah posted a fully realized 15/5 cleric/rogue staff build. If I were to critique that build, I don't love the enhancements he chose (dumping the acrobat tree on a stick build!)
One correction: it's not a staff build. It's a 2H battlecleric which happens to use staves for the first few levels until it gets martial weapon profs from lvl 5 War domain feat, at which point it switches to regular 2H weapons. The extra rogue levels are just there for more skill pts, not tier-5 abilities. You can go cleric 18 / rog 2 instead, of course, but that means dropping a lot of skill pts.

[Selvera]

My first piece of advice is that (especially on elite+) trapping DC's can be hard to get on a first lifer who doesn't use the auction house. Having maxed skill ranks is only one part of the puzzle to hitting trap DC's, and if you can't hit trap DC's you feel pretty useless in that department. Having 3 people to pull/pass loot will help, as will having high int; but if RNG decides not to drop a trap skills item in a while, you can get into a situation where you're trying to trap at level 6 with a +3 search item or at level 15 with a +8 search item, and in both cases you'll be wanting something with a much better bonus. The auction house is another source of easy to get trapping gear which can sometimes fill those rng droughts and make your trapping skills happy again.

[EllisDee37]

One correction: it's not a staff build. It's a 2H battlecleric which happens to use staves for the first few levels until it gets martial weapon profs from lvl 5 War domain feat, at which point it switches to regular 2H weapons. The extra rogue levels are just there for more skill pts, not tier-5 abilities. You can go cleric 18 / rog 2 instead, of course, but that means dropping a lot of skill pts.Ah, that explains it. I remember now that that's what you were doing, and thought it was strange last night when I looked at it in my sleep-deprived state.

Now knowing what your goal was, yep, rock solid. I've edited in a quick note pointing this out.

[wolfy42]

Thanks guys for all the replies.

We started playing yesterday and played till around 3 am!! Was alot of fun.

I can't believe we actually did all the korthos quests and a few marketplace ones on elite (we even did one reaper) with nothing but found eq!!

I am thinking of ditching the monk levels. I would only get toughness/two handed fighting as free feats from monk, then 2 more strength from stance. I kinda wanted the light healing aura on enemies, but we have so much healing already, and I think getting the extra cleric levels (and getting to 5 earlier) is worth it.

So will probably go 15/5 or 14/6 instead.

I do want to use a staff, I just like them, and love the ability to use strength for my reflex save and damage.

If I ditch the monk, I can actually use light armor as well (medium if mithril) and still have evasion...which is very nice.

My friends went with a full healing domain cleric and a pure gnome Arcane Wizard (he may change to pale master later, but I realize now that he wouldn't get healed from us in that case...so it might not be a good idea...for now he's loving the SLA's).

I may need to focus on boosting my defenses alot since it looks like I may need to try and act as the tank for our group sometimes.

I do have a bit of a window that can let me "fix" things as I level since I have veteren 4 and 7 opened up. So at level 4 (we are 3 right now) and level 7, I could remake my character basically and still be at the same spot as my friends.

I think I will take my 4th level as cleric giving me level 2 spells, then my 5th as rogue getting evasion, then jump to 5 cleric for strength as evasion after that. I'll have a nice strength based evasion by level 7 when it starts to kinda be important that way.

I'll miss out on the monk bonuses (better saves vs traps, additional energy resistance, movement speed (really will miss that), and the healing curse on enemies (only will help 2 of us though and we have lots of healing). I will get spells faster though, get to use armor (at least some PRR that way and more options from random armor..though I wish they would freaking stop giving me plate etc for rewards!!).

We may join a guild but won't use guild buffs either, and we decided on no auction house. I may talk to them about making an exception for trap gear though, especially since I won't be using it all the time (just to disarm traps/open locks etc). I think I can pump my search skill (which I'll keep maxed as well) up with find traps spell...so that should be pretty safe. My wisdom is better then most rogues as well (Went Asimar), so spot shouldn't be too bad. Open locks was always one that seemed like you could get away with less points, but dex is actually a dump stat for me (no need for reflex)......so I may struggle there.

Oh well, thanks again everyone!! So glad to be back. I have to play a druid eventually as well and check out those changes, and it sounds like artificer changed as well!!

[EllisDee37]

Just a couple quick notes:

Your friend playing the healing domain cleric can heal your other friend in pale master form using inflict/harm spells. It's somewhat more annoying in that healing spells work on anyone in range, while inflict spells require touch distance and harm requires you to face your target. But it definitely works, especially in reaper when pale master aura may be helpful but insufficient by itself.

Even with dex as a dump stat, you can still skimp on open lock and get through most locks just fine. A couple/few isolated locks (demon sands, gianthold, etc...) require a high open lock but as far as I'm aware, none of those high dc locks protect anything important. Just chests with trash loot.

[unbongwah]

Plus with Open Lock you can try over & over until either you get it open or give up because the DC is too high. Search and Disable are much more important: if Search is too low, you can't find the control box at all (fortunately as a cleric you'll get the Find Traps skill to help); if DD is too low and you roll bad making the control box blow up...uhh, oops. :o

[wolfy42]

Yeah, playing with found loot has been a challenge for the trap sections on elite. I did finally get a +6 search item and a +4 disarm item.

I don't have any fox's cunning items though (guess I could buy potions or do quests for pharlan buffs or something). I thought it used to be a level 2 cleric spell......it would be really nice to have that (no +int items at all actually).

Only real trouble I had on traps so far was waterworks line though (on elite).

I do have level 2 cleric spells but....not enough cleric levels to make it add much yet.

Also, very strange, I made level 3 cleric, which it lists as when you get +2 to hit and damage for 2 handed diety favored weapons (mine is a Q-staff), but I did not get that bonus at all. I double and triple checked. One of the main reasons I went cleric/thief was the domain/diety combo bonus for Q-staff usage, while still getting plenty of yummy cleric buffs, backup healing, full rogue skills (at least spot/search/DD).

If I'm not gonna get the level 3 and level 12 bonuses to Q-staff (total of +5 to damage and hit), that is going to drastically reduce how effective the build is:(

I still have something like +23 damage with only found eq...so it's not horrid....but it should be +25!!

[EllisDee37]

I believe you're talking about the Child Of and Beloved Of feats, which are not auto-granted feats. Favored Souls get bonus feat slots at level 3 and 12 when they can (are forced to) take them manually. Clerics and Paladins do not get bonus feat slots to take them with, but they can take them as regular feats. I wouldn't recommend doing that, though.

[wolfy42]

Ahhh, that blows....yeah I'm not going to use feats on them. Sigh, that was a big reason I decided to go Q-staff cleric/rogue:(

[Vish]

Cleric rogues suck
If its not too late, I'd go artificer
You get dps trapping and decent heals
Since you already have a real healer in the party
You should reconsider
You can even do warlock,
They can scroll at level,
And you'd bring some dps
Which your party will sorely need