A better solution to mid epics, RE White Plume Mountain

[Odysseus2011]

So now that Cordovan has confirmed that White Plume Mountain will not have a raid, as well as not being endgame content this begs a few questions. First off why?

Well for awhile now epics below level 30 has mostly consisted of people just running Epic Normal chains until their eyes bleed. There are several perceived problems with this level range that I have heard from people over the years. The first is that there simply isn’t enough xp in this level range for people to run. The second is that items in this level range are just not good enough. It is for these two reasons that I believe the developers have decided to make WPM (White Plume Mountain) a mid epic chain.

However I believe that this is a flawed decision, first and foremost is because I do not believe that epics are as xp starved as some community members may believe. Below is a list of epic chains that I can list off the top of my head which could be run for xp.

Old Epics (6 chains of quests at level 20)
MOTU (17 quests 1 raid)
Druids (4 quests)
Gianthold (10 quests 1 raid)
Necropolis (4 quests 1 raid)
Three Barrel Cove (5 quests)
Archons (3 quests 1 raid)
Shroud (2 quests)
Devils (6 quests)
Stormhorns (5 quests)
Wheloon (5 quests)
High Road (5 quests)
Ravenloft (12 quests)
Dragonborn (2 quests)
Smattering of stand alones (5ish)

Not included in this list are slayers such as necro/TH/RL as well as ES challenges. If I missed any others let me know. In short I do not believe adding 5 or so quests to any particular level will have the desired impact that the developers believe it will. imo the reason that most players do not run these quests is because after doing an ETR or two they no longer have first time bonuses for xp, because when you ETR quests do not reset first time completions, this drives players towards EN trains for fast xp.

The second issue is that items are underpowered for epics, and this is true, many names epic items are simple better replaced by Cannith Crafted items.

So here is, in my opinion a better solution to the problem, first institute a weekly reset of first time bonuses. Once a week first time bonuses for all epic quests resets, so if you do an ETR one week then you can do another one and still receive a first time bonus. Second, buff these older epic items, just take a week, and buff them based upon Cannith Crafted items. That way they’ll be useful for players who still run that content, don’t just shove them underneath the rug and forget about them.

[acemonkey]

New packs generate revenue, revamping old gear doesn't.

I'm more worried that any new content in mid epic will be massively overscaled and thus worthless except for new tr gear farming at cap. Hope the devs make it as playable as older mid epic content.

[Lynnabel]

New packs generate revenue, revamping old gear doesn't.

U39 will contain a classic pack gear revamp - details to come soon!

[Morroiel]

Honestly ill be disappointed if this is the case regarding white plume mountain. However, if it is the case, they better make it worth to run. Reaper, sagas, bb etc. Is solid but at best you are at par with daily en/eh grinding on an xp/min basis. Id like to see base quest xp for the non usual suspects raised.

It is really hard to justify doing non saga bb in epics where the first time bonus does not apply.

Note i would be against first time bonus resetting on a time basis. Id much prefer that at level 20 only you can pay remnants, tokens, w/e to reset all ypur first time completions. We do not need to make reaper xp and power creep from trees easier to obtain.

[Qhualor]

U39 will contain a classic pack gear revamp - details to come soon!

Phiarlin Carnival named loot.

[Yamani]

Phiarlin Carnival named loot.

I'm always hopeful for the ToD gear revamp. xD

[QuantumFX]

U39 will contain a classic pack gear revamp - details to come soon!

https://media.giphy.com/media/l4JyXxZuYlt6BUUaA/giphy.gif

[btolson]

I'm more worried that any new content in mid epic will be massively overscaled and thus worthless except for new tr gear farming at cap. Hope the devs make it as playable as older mid epic content.

And the XP will no doubt be terrible

[kaelis]

So now that Cordovan has confirmed that White Plume Mountain will not have a raid, as well as not being endgame content this begs a few questions. First off why?



Pardon my ignorance, but where did he state this because it's news to me!

[Yamani]

Pardon my ignorance, but where did he state this because it's news to me!

Cordovan mentioned the possibility of the content being lower epic level in the live stream. Don't think its been confirmed to be the actual level though. As for the raid, he said there wasn't one this update.

[QuantumFX]

Pardon my ignorance, but where did he state this because it's news to me!

Weekly Wednesday livestream.

[Niminae]

Cordovan mentioned the possibility of the content being lower epic level in the live stream. Don't think its been confirmed to be the actual level though. As for the raid, he said there wasn't one this update.

I thought that what Cordovan said was that the content other than WPM was targeted for low epic levels. Not that WPM itself was going to be a low epic level adventure. But it's not like I took a transcript or anything...


U39 will contain a classic pack gear revamp - details to come soon!

Hurray! The work done on Sharn Syndicate and Red Fens was excellent, so more of the same, please.

[noobodyfool]

U39 will contain a classic pack gear revamp - details to come soon!

Awesome this is my favorite kind of update I hope you guys start revamping the older raid gear soon would be so cool to have folks wanting to run more raids.

Think about some flavor revamp or adding different abilities revamp to gear not just stats but yes stats too :D

[Vooduspyce]

U39 will contain a classic pack gear revamp - details to come soon!

Very cool!! can't wait to see :)

[Odysseus2011]

Pardon my ignorance, but where did he state this because it's news to me!


I thought that what Cordovan said was that the content other than WPM was targeted for low epic levels. Not that WPM itself was going to be a low epic level adventure. But it's not like I took a transcript or anything...

Yea it was mentioned in a stream; I was told second hand about it and the OP is my opinion on the matter.

If the intention of making WPM or other content mid epic is to encourage people to run stuff other than the multitude of daily EN trains that are posted I do not believe that this will fix it. The issue isn't volume of quests; it's the first time completion bonuses; or the lack thereof after doing a few ETRs.

[Annex]

Wait, wait, wait a minute! Cordovan said they are adding new low and mid level Epic quests?

YES!!!

FINALLY!!!

Thank you for giving those of us who play in low Epics a little love! Wow. Quest packs I will actually want to buy! This feels really strange. Like...joy or something.


U39 will contain a classic pack gear revamp - details to come soon!

THANK YOU!!!

[glmfw1]

U39 will contain a classic pack gear revamp - details to come soon!

Hooray!!!

[HungarianRhapsody]

U39 will contain a classic pack gear revamp - details to come soon!

I may end up liking you even more than MajMal. :)

[noinfo]

So now that Cordovan has confirmed that White Plume Mountain will not have a raid, as well as not being endgame content this begs a few questions. First off why?

...

So here is, in my opinion a better solution to the problem, first institute a weekly reset of first time bonuses. Once a week first time bonuses for all epic quests resets, so if you do an ETR one week then you can do another one and still receive a first time bonus. Second, buff these older epic items, just take a week, and buff them based upon Cannith Crafted items. That way they’ll be useful for players who still run that content, don’t just shove them underneath the rug and forget about them.

New mid level epic content is dead content. You may play it once on the way up and if its good xp per min it may become worthwhile for level up otherwise it will be ignored in favour of other. As far as items go, except from some weapons the gear you can craft will likely be better and many wont care unless it has a unique look and for cosmetics.

I won't say I wont run the content being vip I might as well, but I do have 3 premium accounts so I guess this is the update that saves me money on that. Its a shame I had hoped for black razor being an end game weapon.

[noinfo]

U39 will contain a classic pack gear revamp - details to come soon!

Its these little things that add up.

I think probably the most positive dev/player interaction was when epic loot packs were revisited years ago the Hose P ones in particular.

Thank you very much for this.

[Hakushi]

U39 will contain a classic pack gear revamp - details to come soon!

Very good news, I can't wait to see the details.

[Elfishski]

New mid level epic content is dead content. You may play it once on the way up and if its good xp per min it may become worthwhile for level up otherwise it will be ignored in favour of other. As far as items go, except from some weapons the gear you can craft will likely be better and many wont care unless it has a unique look and for cosmetics.

I won't say I wont run the content being vip I might as well, but I do have 3 premium accounts so I guess this is the update that saves me money on that. Its a shame I had hoped for black razor being an end game weapon.

1. I have basically zero interest in the "end game" the way it is at the moment, and for people who like to go level 1-30 and play reaper at level rather than just "get xp" in epics (which I realise is the meta game, get the past life quick then farm R10 amber temple or whatever at 30 as that's way more efficient than playing challenging quests at current level), there really isn't much in the middle of the epic levels, so it would be really nice to have new content there.

2. my impression from what they said was lower epic + legendary rather than epic + heroic, and then everyone is happy, but I could have been mistaken.

[AbyssalMage]

U39 will contain a classic pack gear revamp - details to come soon!
This statement is making me so apprehensive. I must be the only one worried about this because everyone else is "excited" but me :(

I only make one request Lynnabel. Please keep us informed to the best of your ability. I realize you may have already said too much.

Then you can read my signature for the reason behind my apprehension.

[Robbenklopper]

U39 will contain a classic pack gear revamp - details to come soon!

Please tell more sooner than soon. It's emotional crude to put a steak in our mouth without being allowed to chew on it.

[mikarddo]

I agree that adding a weekly reset of first time bonusses would be a good idea.

I doubt though that it will change much in low or mid epics - but it will be a step in the right direction.
Running EN/EH dailies without first time bonusses still beats running EE/R1 with first time bonusses in terms of ease and xp for most people though in my experience.

Basically, in epic the difference in base xp probably needs to be higher as well to make it truly matter. Say, EE base xp for epics is upped by 30% from the current numbers to make running EE/Reaper for xp more appealing.

[Krell]

So now that Cordovan has confirmed that White Plume Mountain will not have a raid, as well as not being endgame content this begs a few questions. First off why?

Well for awhile now epics below level 30 has mostly consisted of people just running Epic Normal chains until their eyes bleed. There are several perceived problems with this level range that I have heard from people over the years. The first is that there simply isn’t enough xp in this level range for people to run. The second is that items in this level range are just not good enough. It is for these two reasons that I believe the developers have decided to make WPM (White Plume Mountain) a mid epic chain.

However I believe that this is a flawed decision, first and foremost is because I do not believe that epics are as xp starved as some community members may believe. Below is a list of epic chains that I can list off the top of my head which could be run for xp.

Old Epics (6 chains of quests at level 20)
MOTU (17 quests 1 raid)
Druids (4 quests)
Gianthold (10 quests 1 raid)
Necropolis (4 quests 1 raid)
Three Barrel Cove (5 quests)
Archons (3 quests 1 raid)
Shroud (2 quests)
Devils (6 quests)
Stormhorns (5 quests)
Wheloon (5 quests)
High Road (5 quests)
Ravenloft (12 quests)
Dragonborn (2 quests)
Smattering of stand alones (5ish)

Not included in this list are slayers such as necro/TH/RL as well as ES challenges. If I missed any others let me know. In short I do not believe adding 5 or so quests to any particular level will have the desired impact that the developers believe it will. imo the reason that most players do not run these quests is because after doing an ETR or two they no longer have first time bonuses for xp, because when you ETR quests do not reset first time completions, this drives players towards EN trains for fast xp.

The second issue is that items are underpowered for epics, and this is true, many names epic items are simple better replaced by Cannith Crafted items.

So here is, in my opinion a better solution to the problem, first institute a weekly reset of first time bonuses. Once a week first time bonuses for all epic quests resets, so if you do an ETR one week then you can do another one and still receive a first time bonus. Second, buff these older epic items, just take a week, and buff them based upon Cannith Crafted items. That way they’ll be useful for players who still run that content, don’t just shove them underneath the rug and forget about them.

I do think they should be end game levels, mainly because end game activity mostly consists of running max level content. I'd be fine with Epic and Legendary versions. Something like level 23 epic and 32 legendary.

[cru121]

So this is what I heard in the live stream.
* White Plume Mountain quests will be heroic and legendary
* the adventure pack also includes additional quests, let's call them side quests. devs are considering making those side quests low epic.

Anyway, happy panicking.

[Recared]

A simple, efficient solution to old epics/items revitalisation could be the one I proposed long time ago:

* Create new augment from old named item that keeps 1 property of said item (like torc's chance of spell points generator at being hit), which then you can include in certain slots of epic/legendary items, or in a new type of augment slot. To create the augment you would need something else besides the item, maybe something that would have a chance to drop only at a certain minimum difficulty level, or so.

I ignore wheter to implement this requires a gigantic technical work.

EDIT: Also a side benefit which is along the goal of the game is that it gives an immense amount of extra customisation of your character.

[Ew_vastano]

well this is one pack i will not be buying why simple i only play end game so mid level epic or heroic mah
again loot upgrades for mid level epic gear when i only play end game so?

only thing might get me interested is if the devs finally upgraded the augments
they are way out of date and badly need a refresh to match gear

[Feagor]

U39 will contain a classic pack gear revamp - details to come soon!

Any hints?
You're killing people out of curiosity here!!

[HuneyMunster]

Not included in this list are slayers such as necro/TH/RL as well as ES challenges. If I missed any others let me know. In short I do not believe adding 5 or so quests to any particular level will have the desired impact that the developers believe it will. imo the reason that most players do not run these quests is because after doing an ETR or two they no longer have first time bonuses for xp, because when you ETR quests do not reset first time completions, this drives players towards EN trains for fast xp.

The second issue is that items are underpowered for epics, and this is true, many names epic items are simple better replaced by Cannith Crafted items.

So here is, in my opinion a better solution to the problem, first institute a weekly reset of first time bonuses. Once a week first time bonuses for all epic quests resets, so if you do an ETR one week then you can do another one and still receive a first time bonus. Second, buff these older epic items, just take a week, and buff them based upon Cannith Crafted items. That way they’ll be useful for players who still run that content, don’t just shove them underneath the rug and forget about them.

A weekly restart to get 1st time bonus would be nice, but I doubt they would do that. This is something that could be done for when you Epic Reincarnate as thats when the XP becomes more scarce due to loss of first time bonus and bravery bonus etc.




As for White Plume Im ok with seeing it as a mid epic level quest, but only as long as there is also a legendary version. There most probably will already be two versions with heroic and epic. I cant see it taking too much more time if there was also a legendary version even if it costs a few extra DDOP to account for the extra work.

[Xanthrawl]

U39 will contain a classic pack gear revamp - details to come soon!

I sincerely hope it is the Desert Shard / Seal system, but I am 99% certain it is not.

[Lynnabel]

Any hints?
You're killing people out of curiosity here!!

It's Phiarlan Carnival, the heroic items. The numbers will be up when Lamannia notes are posted (before you ask, no ETA on those - don't kill the messenger!)

[SpartanKiller13]

It's Phiarlan Carnival, the heroic items. The numbers will be up when Lamannia notes are posted (before you ask, no ETA on those - don't kill the messenger!)

Thanks for passing on the message :)

[Thar]

It's Phiarlan Carnival, the heroic items. The numbers will be up when Lamannia notes are posted (before you ask, no ETA on those - don't kill the messenger!)

booo, we need Titan upgrades! lol retroactive of course...

[Lynnabel]

retroactive of course...

As with all old loot revamps, you'll need to reacquire these items to get the updated versions.

[R1ncewind]

As with all old loot revamps, you'll need to reacquire these items to get the updated versions.

only heroic items? hopefully the epic versions too, but it will be better if we get the full item instead of the scroll shard system... a boy can dream

[Knockback]

To help clear things up for folks:


Update 39 will have five different quests.
One of those quests will be White Plume Mountain.
White Plume Mountain will be a cap level quest (CR 9 Heroic/CR 32 Legendary.) So yes, our version of Blackrazor will be a cap level item.
The other four quests will be a variety of levels. The current plans (subject to change, as always) are: two at 6/21, one at 6/23, and one at 6/25.



We've never done a pack like this before in the free-to-play era, and we understand that the setup is a little unusual. But we hope the people who have been waiting patiently for something different to play at level 6 or new loot in the low epics will appreciate it.

[cave_diver]

U39 will contain a classic pack gear revamp - details to come soon!


Awesome

[cave_diver]

It's Phiarlan Carnival, the heroic items. The numbers will be up when Lamannia notes are posted (before you ask, no ETA on those - don't kill the messenger!)

Any chance to upgrade epic lvl 20's to make it useful?

[Feagor]

It's Phiarlan Carnival, the heroic items. The numbers will be up when Lamannia notes are posted (before you ask, no ETA on those - don't kill the messenger!)

Thanks for the response!!

Are the epic items targeted for a future revamp??

[HuneyMunster]

To help clear things up for folks:


Update 39 will have five different quests.
One of those quests will be White Plume Mountain.
White Plume Mountain will be a cap level quest (CR 9 Heroic/CR 32 Legendary.) So yes, our version of Blackrazor will be a cap level item.
The other four quests will be a variety of levels. The current plans (subject to change, as always) are: two at 6/21, one at 6/23, and one at 6/25.



We've never done a pack like this before in the free-to-play era, and we understand that the setup is a little unusual. But we hope the people who have been waiting patiently for something different to play at level 6 or new loot in the low epics will appreciate it.

Level 6 is a kind of a dull spot since Tangleroot is not available on reaper difficulty (any reason why?). Other than House J 6s everything else is a mix of 5-10s such as Delera 5-8, Sorrowdusk 6-10, House K f2p 5-8 and 3BC is 5-7

[Sam-u-r-eye]

To help clear things up for folks:


Update 39 will have five different quests.
One of those quests will be White Plume Mountain.
White Plume Mountain will be a cap level quest (CR 9 Heroic/CR 32 Legendary.) So yes, our version of Blackrazor will be a cap level item.
The other four quests will be a variety of levels. The current plans (subject to change, as always) are: two at 6/21, one at 6/23, and one at 6/25.



We've never done a pack like this before in the free-to-play era, and we understand that the setup is a little unusual. But we hope the people who have been waiting patiently for something different to play at level 6 or new loot in the low epics will appreciate it.

I loved this pack in PnP. Riddle me!

I also agree with OP though. Would you guys put a version at CR 32 Legendary of the other 4 quests? If not I understand but I don't TR very often so unfortunately I won't be able to experience them except at a difficulty that is way to easy. It's like Lord of Blades.

My silly hope is that we'll get the ability to step into lower level quests on our level 30 characters. Say for every level our character is over the quest level they take a negative level debuff as well as a debuff to DCs. This way I could join my friends doing Epic TRs on my level 30 that I am uncomfortable with TRing. I just can't stand the TR process anymore after finishing most of em', and I know many other people who feel the same.

Cheers! Am super hyped for the new pack!~ Can't wait

[scipiojedi]

MY best guess is that they are doing a multi-stage approach to revamping items. Right now we are in Stage 1

Stage 1 - Revamp loot of older packs, focusing on loot that is in the S/S/S system
Stage 2 - Revamp the S/S/S system

Since the S/S/S system relies on the heroic item, you wouldn't revamp the shard system before you redid the original heroic items. Or people would complain bigtime. But since they did Red Fens and now are doing Phiarlan, then I would guess that VoN, Demon Sands, and LoD are on the horizon. Once they finish all of stage 1 they can then do a massive overhaul of S/S/S.

Personally I'm excited to see what new abilities the top hat will have! :D

[Qhualor]

U39 will contain a classic pack gear revamp - details to come soon!


Phiarlin Carnival named loot.


It's Phiarlan Carnival, the heroic items. The numbers will be up when Lamannia notes are posted (before you ask, no ETA on those - don't kill the messenger!)

No gold star?

[Sam-u-r-eye]

No gold star?

you get a mobos stamp of approval

^^

Here's to hoping we get spell absorb on the cloak...


Plsssssssssssssssssssssss

[mikarddo]

To help clear things up for folks:


Update 39 will have five different quests.
One of those quests will be White Plume Mountain.
White Plume Mountain will be a cap level quest (CR 9 Heroic/CR 32 Legendary.) So yes, our version of Blackrazor will be a cap level item.
The other four quests will be a variety of levels. The current plans (subject to change, as always) are: two at 6/21, one at 6/23, and one at 6/25.



We've never done a pack like this before in the free-to-play era, and we understand that the setup is a little unusual. But we hope the people who have been waiting patiently for something different to play at level 6 or new loot in the low epics will appreciate it.

Level 6 is firmly in competition with 3bc. Level 9 is firmly in competition with Von3 and Shadow Crypt. You just placed these quests into levels where some of the very best heroic xp quests in the game are found. They need to offer something really special (or excellent xp) to be run more than a few times before people revert to the older quest with excellent xp.

If that is the rough level range you want the new stuff in for heroics I would like to suggest moving them to level 7 and 8 instead as those levels are slightly less crowded for good xp stuff in my opinion :)

[Qhualor]

To help clear things up for folks:


Update 39 will have five different quests.
One of those quests will be White Plume Mountain.
White Plume Mountain will be a cap level quest (CR 9 Heroic/CR 32 Legendary.) So yes, our version of Blackrazor will be a cap level item.
The other four quests will be a variety of levels. The current plans (subject to change, as always) are: two at 6/21, one at 6/23, and one at 6/25.



We've never done a pack like this before in the free-to-play era, and we understand that the setup is a little unusual. But we hope the people who have been waiting patiently for something different to play at level 6 or new loot in the low epics will appreciate it.

Level 6 quests I am level 8 running them on elite. There are 15 quests I run at that level and by the time I am done with those I am around half a rank or less from level 10 because I am banking level 9. Depending on the quest xp, which I'm sure it will, it could mean having more options and skipping quests like Dead Predators and Caged Trolls that are just about 4k or so in max quest xp. Although usually see MM xp in those quests too, so actually can be comparable to like Valak's and Bounty Hunter.

Honestly we don't need more heroic content for xp. I'm fine with the intention being something new and different to run. I know you are saying F2P, but I see plenty incentive to spend on the game and subscribe to VIP. With as powerful as CC is, we really don't need more named loot for heroics either unless it actually rivals CC. Not suggesting to power creep it up, but with how fast players level between 6 and 8, I just don't see much reason. For quite awhile now we have had, I think, every new content have named loot. Whatever happened to random content with connecting storylines that had reasonable xp, but no named loot like the old quests?

[Yamani]

Level 6 is a kind of a dull spot since Tangleroot is not available on reaper difficulty (any reason why?). Other than House J 6s everything else is a mix of 5-10s such as Delera 5-8, Sorrowdusk 6-10, House K f2p 5-8 and 3BC is 5-7

Something to do with reapers not spawning correctly in Tangleroot iirc, think its the same reason as the level 16 quest not being reaper able.

[Zretch]

If resetting 1st time bonus also means losing flagging, then resetting each week wouldn't be a great thing. The reason 1st time bonuses reset when you TR is that the game wipes out its knowledge that you've done those quests before, which wipes out your flagging. Having to re-flag for raids every week would suck for people who park capped toons for raiding only and level of different characters.

I think the real issue with epic leveling is that Epic Elite is such a huge difficulty jump over epic hard, that running for xp on elite makes no sense. At that point, the concept of bravery bonuses and 1st time bonuses get tossed out the window. Epic elite quests take so much longer to finish that even with the bravery bonus, the exp per minute isn't worthwhile. Dial epic elite back a bit on quest levels 20-29 and you'll find more people running all of the epic quests rather than just the handful of dailies as they'll be looking for those bravery bonus runs.

I know, i know, it makes the game easier! Well, elite isn't the highest difficulty anymore, so maybe it's time to give the scaling between normal, hard, and elite in 20+ content a revisit? As an example: In Through a Mirror Darkly, which is a pretty easy quest as far as scaling between normal, hard, and elite goes as mob packs are fairly small, the shadow beholder red named on hard has ~35,000 hitpoints. On elite...~132,000. That type of scaling tells me you're missing a difficulty level or two between hard and elite.

[Odysseus2011]

To help clear things up for folks:


Update 39 will have five different quests.
One of those quests will be White Plume Mountain.
White Plume Mountain will be a cap level quest (CR 9 Heroic/CR 32 Legendary.) So yes, our version of Blackrazor will be a cap level item.
The other four quests will be a variety of levels. The current plans (subject to change, as always) are: two at 6/21, one at 6/23, and one at 6/25.



We've never done a pack like this before in the free-to-play era, and we understand that the setup is a little unusual. But we hope the people who have been waiting patiently for something different to play at level 6 or new loot in the low epics will appreciate it.

I’m assuming the purpose of adding these quests at lower epics is to give players new content while leveling, as well as new items. However, unlike heroics this strategy will not work for several reasons. Currently in epics it is debatable that running a full static R1 group is easier/faster xp than simply running through a bunch of EN trains, and that’s if the group has a BB to their xp, after an ETR or two those BBs are spent. And therein lies the problem, levels 20-27ish are fly over levels; players will just run the easiest xp/min they can. Unless these quests can be run expeditiously on EN within a month or two they will be roadkill to EN trains. Unless the developers address this issue any quests introduced at these will only be regularly ran if they can be done quickly on EN.

[Morroiel]

I’m assuming the purpose of adding these quests at lower epics is to give players new content while leveling, as well as new items. However, unlike heroics this strategy will not work for several reasons. Currently in epics it is debatable that running a full static R1 group is easier/faster xp than simply running through a bunch of EN trains, and that’s if the group has a BB to their xp, after an ETR or two those BBs are spent. And therein lies the problem, levels 20-27ish are fly over levels; players will just run the easiest xp/min they can. Unless these quests can be run expeditiously on EN within a month or two they will be roadkill to EN trains. Unless the developers address this issue any quests introduced at these will only be regularly ran if they can be done quickly on EN.

Pretty much. Note to devs: this isn't us asking for you to nerf the xp on the EN trains. This is us telling you to buff the xp on the non EN trains, especially for newer content.

[Odysseus2011]

If resetting 1st time bonus also means losing flagging, then resetting each week wouldn't be a great thing. The reason 1st time bonuses reset when you TR is that the game wipes out its knowledge that you've done those quests before, which wipes out your flagging. Having to re-flag for raids every week would suck for people who park capped toons for raiding only and level of different characters.

The idea of resetting the bonuses is not to reset flagging, just to allow players to receive a similar xp boost to running a quest first time through with First time/Bravery bonus. This issue is what is fueling EN trains, because after an ETR or two you loose the massive bonus to xp that you would otherwise receive for running the content on say R1 or EE. After getting a first time bonus there is no reason to run epic content on EE/R1.

Even before loosing a first time bonus it is probably easier to level by doing an EN train. Afterwards it’s ludicrously inefficient, a weekly first time bonus would go a long ways to addressing this issue.

[bracelet]

U39 will contain a classic pack gear revamp - details to come soon!

Devs don't get enough credit for the good work they do, so let me just say that I love what you did with the Red Fens gear in heroics. I use the Raven's Eye set from 7 through 14 -and I loathe taking it off even at 15. If the next updated gear set is as useful, it will result in some actual tough choices.

[Annex]

To help clear things up for folks:


Update 39 will have five different quests.
One of those quests will be White Plume Mountain.
White Plume Mountain will be a cap level quest (CR 9 Heroic/CR 32 Legendary.) So yes, our version of Blackrazor will be a cap level item.
The other four quests will be a variety of levels. The current plans (subject to change, as always) are: two at 6/21, one at 6/23, and one at 6/25.



We've never done a pack like this before in the free-to-play era, and we understand that the setup is a little unusual. But we hope the people who have been waiting patiently for something different to play at level 6 or new loot in the low epics will appreciate it.

Thank you for the clarification! If they are easy to get to, new quests at levels 21, 23, and 25 is _great_ news! New quests at level 6 is fine with me. :D

Please consider putting one of those quick travel guide guys in Epic Demon Sands, too. The ones in Epic Three Barrel Cove and Epic Upper Necropolis are super helpful.

[Thar]

To help clear things up for folks:


Update 39 will have five different quests.
One of those quests will be White Plume Mountain.
White Plume Mountain will be a cap level quest (CR 9 Heroic/CR 32 Legendary.) So yes, our version of Blackrazor will be a cap level item.
The other four quests will be a variety of levels. The current plans (subject to change, as always) are: two at 6/21, one at 6/23, and one at 6/25.



We've never done a pack like this before in the free-to-play era, and we understand that the setup is a little unusual. But we hope the people who have been waiting patiently for something different to play at level 6 or new loot in the low epics will appreciate it.

This is Thar and I approve this message.

[Ballrus]

...our version of Blackrazor will be a cap level.

And Blackrazor will be a bastard swd right?

[Aelonwy]

Pretty much. Note to devs: this isn't us asking for you to nerf the xp on the EN trains. This is us telling you to buff the xp on the non EN trains, especially for newer content.

Agreed, many newer quests have terrible XP. Not that I run XP trains. I get bored too easily to repeat quests back to back. For me the full TR from 30 back to 1 or 15, completely altering my character and how they face the quests is the only way I can repeat the quests without loosing the fun. This is also why I still keep my alts. If I need to repeat a quest looking for some particular item, I run it on all the alts that can because it feels different each time. Obviously its not the most efficient way to play but efficiency is too mind-numbing for me.

[Odysseus2011]

Agreed, many newer quests have terrible XP. Not that I run XP trains. I get bored too easily to repeat quests back to back. For me the full TR from 30 back to 1 or 15, completely altering my character and how they face the quests is the only way I can repeat the quests without loosing the fun. This is also why I still keep my alts. If I need to repeat a quest looking for some particular item, I run it on all the alts that can because it feels different each time. Obviously its not the most efficient way to play but efficiency is too mind-numbing for me.

It’s not necessarily that the the xp is terrible, with a BB and a first time R1 completion it’s fairly good actually. The issue is that people who ETR don’t get this bonus, and without it the xp is truly terrible. Simply adding more quests to this level range will not fix the problem.

Although it probably is still easier to do EN than go for a BB completion. First time through these quests isn’t to bad; second time is terrible.

[Gremmlynn]

So now that Cordovan has confirmed that White Plume Mountain will not have a raid, as well as not being endgame content this begs a few questions. First off why?

Well for awhile now epics below level 30 has mostly consisted of people just running Epic Normal chains until their eyes bleed. There are several perceived problems with this level range that I have heard from people over the years. The first is that there simply isn’t enough xp in this level range for people to run. The second is that items in this level range are just not good enough. It is for these two reasons that I believe the developers have decided to make WPM (White Plume Mountain) a mid epic chain.

However I believe that this is a flawed decision, first and foremost is because I do not believe that epics are as xp starved as some community members may believe. Below is a list of epic chains that I can list off the top of my head which could be run for xp.

Old Epics (6 chains of quests at level 20)
MOTU (17 quests 1 raid)
Druids (4 quests)
Gianthold (10 quests 1 raid)
Necropolis (4 quests 1 raid)
Three Barrel Cove (5 quests)
Archons (3 quests 1 raid)
Shroud (2 quests)
Devils (6 quests)
Stormhorns (5 quests)
Wheloon (5 quests)
High Road (5 quests)
Ravenloft (12 quests)
Dragonborn (2 quests)
Smattering of stand alones (5ish)

Not included in this list are slayers such as necro/TH/RL as well as ES challenges. If I missed any others let me know. In short I do not believe adding 5 or so quests to any particular level will have the desired impact that the developers believe it will. imo the reason that most players do not run these quests is because after doing an ETR or two they no longer have first time bonuses for xp, because when you ETR quests do not reset first time completions, this drives players towards EN trains for fast xp.

The second issue is that items are underpowered for epics, and this is true, many names epic items are simple better replaced by Cannith Crafted items.

So here is, in my opinion a better solution to the problem, first institute a weekly reset of first time bonuses. Once a week first time bonuses for all epic quests resets, so if you do an ETR one week then you can do another one and still receive a first time bonus. Second, buff these older epic items, just take a week, and buff them based upon Cannith Crafted items. That way they’ll be useful for players who still run that content, don’t just shove them underneath the rug and forget about them.Wouldn't simply resetting on ER make more sense than a static timer that may or may not, likely wouldn't more often then not, synch with everyone's ER timing?

[bracelet]

Level 6 is firmly in competition with 3bc. Level 9 is firmly in competition with Von3 and Shadow Crypt. You just placed these quests into levels where some of the very best heroic xp quests in the game are found. They need to offer something really special (or excellent xp) to be run more than a few times before people revert to the older quest with excellent xp.

If that is the rough level range you want the new stuff in for heroics I would like to suggest moving them to level 7 and 8 instead as those levels are slightly less crowded for good xp stuff in my opinion :)

I mostly agree with this. Level 7 however is not terrible. Even if you don't like The Pit, you can do all right with some extremely high XP quests at that level -Tear, Gwylans, Old Grey Garl, The Missing Party. There are also some lesser quests at that level that serve to fill out the ranks.

Level 8 on the other hand is a disaster. I could address each one at that level and explain why they are bad -but honestly it boils down to XP per minute. Here are the ones I actually run: Spies, The Prisoner, Tharask Arena, and two of the Sorrowdusk quests. In order to run the Sorrowdusk 8s I have to go back and run the 6's and 7's . Those 6 Sorrowdusk quests are enough to get me through 8.

I would love to have some alternatives at 8. Reaper has taught me to run at level, so good job there devs. But 8 doesn't have good leveling content, I am having to drop back and run 6's and 7's to get through it.

There are massive holes at 15 and 17 as well. But one thing at a time...

[QuantumFX]

I would love to have some alternatives at 8. Reaper has taught me to run at level, so good job there devs. But 8 doesn't have good leveling content, I am having to drop back and run 6's and 7's to get through it.

Since you appear to be doing Delara's 2 and 3, why not do Thrall of the Necromancer? If you give up on the idea of conquest bonus, it’s surprisingly fast. Also, Haunted Library is quick if you skip the distractions.

[Qhualor]

I mostly agree with this. Level 7 however is not terrible. Even if you don't like The Pit, you can do all right with some extremely high XP quests at that level -Tear, Gwylans, Old Grey Garl, The Missing Party. There are also some lesser quests at that level that serve to fill out the ranks.

Level 8 on the other hand is a disaster. I could address each one at that level and explain why they are bad -but honestly it boils down to XP per minute. Here are the ones I actually run: Spies, The Prisoner, Tharask Arena, and two of the Sorrowdusk quests. In order to run the Sorrowdusk 8s I have to go back and run the 6's and 7's . Those 6 Sorrowdusk quests are enough to get me through 8.

I would love to have some alternatives at 8. Reaper has taught me to run at level, so good job there devs. But 8 doesn't have good leveling content, I am having to drop back and run 6's and 7's to get through it.

There are massive holes at 15 and 17 as well. But one thing at a time...

this isn't a content problem if you are playing xp/min. you miss out on a lot of xp with quest bonuses and skipping over other quests because they don't fit the xp/min requirement. I'm running those quests +2 above base on elite and with a level banked trying to maximize xp in every single quest, which requires more xp to level than running them at base and less xp than what Reaper gives for first time bonus and takes longer to complete, and I'm always skipping over content.

levels 15-17, that means I am levels 17-18 with level 19 banked, I run 19 quests to cap. 9 of those quests are on hard. xp bonus weekend and it drops to 16 quests to cap with 6 quests on hard. usually I get to about half a rank from cap and farm spiders for 15-30 minutes, depending if I want to use a slayer pot I won from a DD roll, but one more quest of something would pretty much do it too.

I have been saying it for years. xp/min you can earn xp at a faster pace but it means farming and/or finding yourself in a stuck spot making the later levels when content starts to thin out tougher. when I recorded my last life I ran 201 quests to cap on elite mostly, but that was also during an xp bonus weekend. without it, its more like 206 or so. this includes waiting until level 18 to turn in 3BC and GH sagas that puts me something like 1 to 1.5 ranks into 19.

[boredGamer]

I have been saying it for years. xp/min you can earn xp at a faster pace but it means farming and/or finding yourself in a stuck spot making the later levels when content starts to thin out tougher. when I recorded my last life I ran 201 quests to cap on elite mostly, but that was also during an xp bonus weekend. without it, its more like 206 or so. this includes waiting until level 18 to turn in 3BC and GH sagas that puts me something like 1 to 1.5 ranks into 19.

This has nothing to do with xp/min - it has to do with running quests that are too high when you are too low. This can be true of a zerger, a casual player, whomever. Mostly people do it when they join the low side of a 12-14 group, a 14-16 group, whatever. Seems like good XP at the time and then suddenly you don't have much to run at 18.

But nope, you're the smartest! XP/min people always get stuck without your master run everything on elite plan, they are such dummies. /sarcasm

I repeat only a few quests in heroic (fire caves, von3, cruci) and skip a ton of quests (I forgot shadow crypt this life!), but everyone *should* pay attention to what they run from 12-18, and when.

[Rauven]

this isn't a content problem if you are playing xp/min. you miss out on a lot of xp with quest bonuses and skipping over other quests because they don't fit the xp/min requirement. I'm running those quests +2 above base on elite and with a level banked trying to maximize xp in every single quest, which requires more xp to level than running them at base and less xp than what Reaper gives for first time bonus and takes longer to complete, and I'm always skipping over content.

levels 15-17, that means I am levels 17-18 with level 19 banked, I run 19 quests to cap. 9 of those quests are on hard. xp bonus weekend and it drops to 16 quests to cap with 6 quests on hard. usually I get to about half a rank from cap and farm spiders for 15-30 minutes, depending if I want to use a slayer pot I won from a DD roll, but one more quest of something would pretty much do it too.

I have been saying it for years. xp/min you can earn xp at a faster pace but it means farming and/or finding yourself in a stuck spot making the later levels when content starts to thin out tougher. when I recorded my last life I ran 201 quests to cap on elite mostly, but that was also during an xp bonus weekend. without it, its more like 206 or so. this includes waiting until level 18 to turn in 3BC and GH sagas that puts me something like 1 to 1.5 ranks into 19.

^^ This. I'm on a 3+ TR life right now. In the past I've done those XP/min, farm this to death, then move to the next quest, lather, rinse, and repeat methods, and I have experienced gaps like others have been talking about. This life I decided to take a different tack. From the start I've been running quests at base level +2 on elite with my next level banked with a once and done philosophy. So far, I've only repeated a handful of quests. Two of those were because I was hoping to get lucky with a drop, one was because I was testing something, and one was because I decided to rerun a quest rather than run a quest I don't like. You only experience gaps if you get stuck in that mentality that a quest is only worth running if it meets an XP/min requirement.

[Odysseus2011]

Wouldn't simply resetting on ER make more sense than a static timer that may or may not, likely wouldn't more often then not, synch with everyone's ER timing?

Personally I would prefer some sort of reset after a specific period of time, this would be beneficial to players who remain at cap and never have a first time bonus because they simply prefer to stay at level 30 versus reincarnate all the time.

It also allows the developers somewhat more control, if everything reset after an ETR I could see some form of abuse; where players would ETR before running to 30 for the first time reaper bonus on all the quests and then repeating the process.

The point however is that it’s not a lack of content which is making these levels destitute of any sort of questing bar EN trains, it’s the lack of bravery bonuses; and this needs to be addressed.

[Selvera]

And Blackrazor will be a bastard swd right?

I'm going to take a guess here. No.


Blackrazor, also known as the Sword of Souls, is a greatsword that appears to be forged from an unknown alloy of steel. It is sheathed in a black scabbard decorated with pieces of cut obsidian. When held, it shines like the night sky filled with stars. The wielder of the sword hears faint whispers whenever it delivers the killing stroke to a living creature. The sword has a sentient being of another plane of existence forced into it. This creature was once a powerful undead creature similar to an atropal.

It's likely going to be a greatsword.

[bracelet]

this isn't a content problem if you are playing xp/min. you miss out on a lot of xp with quest bonuses and skipping over other quests because they don't fit the xp/min requirement. I'm running those quests +2 above base on elite and with a level banked trying to maximize xp in every single quest, which requires more xp to level than running them at base and less xp than what Reaper gives for first time bonus and takes longer to complete, and I'm always skipping over content.

levels 15-17, that means I am levels 17-18 with level 19 banked, I run 19 quests to cap. 9 of those quests are on hard. xp bonus weekend and it drops to 16 quests to cap with 6 quests on hard. usually I get to about half a rank from cap and farm spiders for 15-30 minutes, depending if I want to use a slayer pot I won from a DD roll, but one more quest of something would pretty much do it too.

I have been saying it for years. xp/min you can earn xp at a faster pace but it means farming and/or finding yourself in a stuck spot making the later levels when content starts to thin out tougher. when I recorded my last life I ran 201 quests to cap on elite mostly, but that was also during an xp bonus weekend. without it, its more like 206 or so. this includes waiting until level 18 to turn in 3BC and GH sagas that puts me something like 1 to 1.5 ranks into 19.

This sounds like it would all work at 2 over. But if you look at it based on the content available at a given level 8, 15 and 17 are the worst three by far. Many of the quests at these levels are waaaay over-scaled difficulty wise, and to add insult to injury have some of the worst XP in the game -optionals or not. Creeping Death / To Curse The Sky? Slavers? Tethyamar? Just terrible. Slavers is good for many things, but leveling is not one of them.

Also, I have heard it said many times in these forums that 18 is difficult to level. I just find that unfathomable. If you are doing old school 2 over you have all of Vale and Wheloon. Those are amazingly good XP -especially Wheloon. But if you are running at level reaper, you have a world of opportunity in Storm Horns, Amrath, High Road, even Cannith. Getting 5 ranks using those is an evening's work and full of variety and fun. I really don't think 18 is a problem.

[Qhualor]

This sounds like it would all work at 2 over. But if you look at it based on the content available at a given level 8, 15 and 17 are the worst three by far. Many of the quests at these levels are waaaay over-scaled difficulty wise, and to add insult to injury have some of the worst XP in the game -optionals or not. Creeping Death / To Curse The Sky? Slavers? Tethyamar? Just terrible. Slavers is good for many things, but leveling is not one of them.

Also, I have heard it said many times in these forums that 18 is difficult to level. I just find that unfathomable. If you are doing old school 2 over you have all of Vale and Wheloon. Those are amazingly good XP -especially Wheloon. But if you are running at level reaper, you have a world of opportunity in Storm Horns, Amrath, High Road, even Cannith. Getting 5 ranks using those is an evening's work and full of variety and fun. I really don't think 18 is a problem.

With all of the quests I run, by the time I am level 10 (level 8 content), the very first quest I run levels me. The rest of the quests are just banked xp and I stop about a half rank or less from that next level. It's like this until I cap. Level 5 content (character is level 7) I start skipping content like most Phiarlan Carnival chain. I start banking next level by most of the way through level 6 (level 4 content).

If I am earning less first time bonus xp by running most content on elite, banking an entire level half of my heroic leveling and skipping a lot of content, than I have a hard time seeing how you can have trouble leveling. I know 1 good reason why, but maybe there is more to it like not enough content owned, no MM xp, not running saga quests or maybe running the low level chains all in 1 go instead of making the run out at each level range.

Level 8 content I run 12 quests. Necro 2, Haunted Library, Stormcleave Outpost are high xp quests.

Level 15 content I run 13 quests with 7 on hard. Missing, To Curse the Sky and Litany are good xp quests. I run Tethyamar chain on hard and do it for filler xp. To Curse the Sky I get a lot of MM xp running it on hard, but still good xp.

I don't touch level 17 content because I just run elite Rainbow, Coal, LOD, Servants and Rift. On hard its RWTD and Spinner. Cap after half a rank of spider farming.

For Reaper players running at level, I see ETK, Monastery, Prey, Acute Delirium chain and Shroud. Running 16's, should be flagged and it is good xp. Druids chain is only good for saga. I would think it wouldn't be a problem here, but its not like I see many lfms for this level range.

[CaptainSpacePony]

U39 will contain a classic pack gear revamp - details to come soon!

I'm hoping for Threnal. It seriously needs a 3bc treatment, or, the original house C stuff, including challenges. I would love to see them expanded to lvl 30.

Loot only? Sands would be a good choice. Sentinels is pretty meh too.

[DeltaBravo]

To help clear things up for folks:


Update 39 will have five different quests.
One of those quests will be White Plume Mountain.
White Plume Mountain will be a cap level quest (CR 9 Heroic/CR 32 Legendary.) So yes, our version of Blackrazor will be a cap level item.
The other four quests will be a variety of levels. The current plans (subject to change, as always) are: two at 6/21, one at 6/23, and one at 6/25.



We've never done a pack like this before in the free-to-play era, and we understand that the setup is a little unusual. But we hope the people who have been waiting patiently for something different to play at level 6 or new loot in the low epics will appreciate it.

As for Heroic quests i think there is so much XP out there that i dont really care much what lvl range they are in.,
Epic lvl i think its proberly a good idea to have more quests and specially items for mid epic lvls. However makeing theese quest not also playable on Legendary 30+, is a BIG mistake. people still want something to grind for at cap. and you are exlcudeing theese quests from reaper mode at cap. when you lower the difficulty. is it not posible to do all 3 ??? So heroic for lvl 6ish, Epic for lvl20-28 ish. And last lvl 30+ for atleast the reaper difficulty for cap players. ( you dont even need to make the items that drop in the quests lvl 30. they can stay as they are allready designed. but not being able to play em on reaper as a capped toon stinks.


cheers DB

[Niminae]

If the intention of making WPM or other content mid epic is to encourage people to run stuff other than the multitude of daily EN trains that are posted I do not believe that this will fix it. The issue isn't volume of quests; it's the first time completion bonuses; or the lack thereof after doing a few ETRs.

I believe that the issue being discussed is the lack of content in some level ranges. And while no amount of content might persuade people to abandon their "daily EN trains," what is absolutely certain is that no new content will do so either.

[Ballrus]

I'm going to take a guess here. No.



It's likely going to be a greatsword.

Yep, i read this...

And this:

This bastard sword is forged of an unknown metal, a deep black that seems to absorb light. When grasped, the blade becomes an image of the night sky, shimmering with points of light. It is slightly cool when sheathed, but warms as battle is joined.

And this:

Blackrazor is a longsword with powerful enchantments but an evil nature...

Anyway, i can dream...

[Odysseus2011]

I believe that the issue being discussed is the lack of content in some level ranges. And while no amount of content might persuade people to abandon their "daily EN trains," what is absolutely certain is that no new content will do so either.

This is what I hope that any developers reading will understand. The issue with Mid Epic levels is not the same issue Heroic levels had. Simply adding more content will not fix this issue; and while I'm not against adding more content to those levels, doing so will not solve the broader issue plaguing this level range.

Adding a few side quests will do next to nothing; unless they can be readily farmed on EN they'll be roadkill within a month.

[kmoustakas]

It's Phiarlan Carnival, the heroic items. The numbers will be up when Lamannia notes are posted (before you ask, no ETA on those - don't kill the messenger!)

Always nice to hear about packs getting things updated. Glad to hear

[Niminae]

It's Phiarlan Carnival, the heroic items. The numbers will be up when Lamannia notes are posted (before you ask, no ETA on those - don't kill the messenger!)

Stab stab stabbity stab stab! :p:p:p:p:p:p:p

Ok, 9 items is better than zero items. And there seems to be someone on the staff who likes rune arms (cold arms getting tracking with U38, and the list of 9 includes one arm with cold) so this makes a bit of sense. So bang on, but don't break anything in the process!

[Niminae]

White Plume Mountain will be a cap level quest (CR 9 Heroic/CR 32 Legendary.) So yes, our version of Blackrazor will be a cap level item.

And also, I guess, a ML9 item. Which is completely antithetical to the lore and the mechanics of a sentient weapon. But whatever.

I'm not kicking the tires too hard over this. I mean I'm not going to claim any credit on the implementation but I did suggest a few times on the forums that WPM be a low epic + legendary pack because of the two very valid reasons that lore plus sentience means that WPM should be a low epic + legendary pack to begin with. On top of the game design facts that low level epics had been ignored for a really long time meaning that there was a large gap in itemization, no heroic item can be a sentient weapon in any event. So a L20 Blackrazor and a L29 Blackrazor make a lot more sense than a L9 Blackrazor and a L29 Blackrazor.


We've never done a pack like this before in the free-to-play era, and we understand that the setup is a little unusual. But we hope the people who have been waiting patiently for something different to play at level 6 or new loot in the low epics will appreciate it.

I think it will be a huge success.

[Captain_Wizbang]

U39 will contain a classic pack gear revamp - details to come soon!

Reaver Refuge, SoS gear is the most logical choice.

[Aelonwy]

And also, I guess, a ML9 item. Which is completely antithetical to the lore and the mechanics of a sentient weapon. But whatever.


I seriously doubt we will see anything under level 20 that can be made sentient intentionally. (Bugged Bonecrusher? aside)

[silinteresting]

To help clear things up for folks:


Update 39 will have five different quests.
One of those quests will be White Plume Mountain.
White Plume Mountain will be a cap level quest (CR 9 Heroic/CR 32 Legendary.) So yes, our version of Blackrazor will be a cap level item.
The other four quests will be a variety of levels. The current plans (subject to change, as always) are: two at 6/21, one at 6/23, and one at 6/25.



We've never done a pack like this before in the free-to-play era, and we understand that the setup is a little unusual. But we hope the people who have been waiting patiently for something different to play at level 6 or new loot in the low epics will appreciate it.

please let there be a level 21 or lvl 23 caster stick in there somewhere that is worth putting a jewel in.

your friend sil :)

[caberonia]

Stab stab stabbity stab stab! :p:p:p:p:p:p:p

Ok, 9 items is better than zero items. And there seems to be someone on the staff who likes rune arms (cold arms getting tracking with U38, and the list of 9 includes one arm with cold) so this makes a bit of sense. So bang on, but don't break anything in the process!
Phiarlan Carnival
There's 9 chain reward items..
11 items that drop inside the specific quests.
20 items total updated. (hopefully)
I'm always thankful to see them update named loot considering how useless so much of the old stuff is in the current game and any reason you can give people to purchase the older packs and run them more than once for favor is a good thing.

[Gremmlynn]

It also allows the developers somewhat more control, if everything reset after an ETR I could see some form of abuse; where players would ETR before running to 30 for the first time reaper bonus on all the quests and then repeating the process.Huh? How would one ER before 30, as being level 30 is a requirement to ER.

[acemonkey]

Huh? How would one ER before 30, as being level 30 is a requirement to ER.

He was talking about the leveling after the ETR, not the leveling that got you there.

[Niminae]

I seriously doubt we will see anything under level 20 that can be made sentient intentionally. (Bugged Bonecrusher? aside)

I completely agree. Which means that the three sentient weapons the wizard asks you to recover for him aren't going to be sentient in the heroic version of the quest. I wonder if they will even change the NPC text to reflect the difference, or if the lack of sentience on the L9 version of Blackrazor (and Wave and Whelm) will just be something we're supposed to ignore.

[Cantor]

I have to agree that level 6 is a miss for heroic placement. I mean it's easy to go through heroics now, but 5-7 is already overflowing with 3bc and ftp.

[Grace_ana]

I would much rather have more content in the lvl 17-19 range. We did the math in another thread, and those are the levels where the xp stagnates. Low levels don't need help.

[silinteresting]

I would much rather have more content in the lvl 17-19 range. We did the math in another thread, and those are the levels where the xp stagnates. Low levels don't need help.

i dont believe that its being placed there for xp. i think its being placed there
for something different to run at those levels. after all everything gets boring
so it adds to the spice so to speak.

your friend sil :)

[Gremmlynn]

He was talking about the leveling after the ETR, not the leveling that got you there.Which I thought was the point of the reset. If not, what would the point of resetting at all be?

[Grace_ana]

i dont believe that its being placed there for xp. i think its being placed there
for something different to run at those levels. after all everything gets boring
so it adds to the spice so to speak.

your friend sil :)

I get that, but if there is an actual need that should come first. The xp in quests at late heroics is awful.

[Gremmlynn]

I would much rather have more content in the lvl 17-19 range. We did the math in another thread, and those are the levels where the xp stagnates. Low levels don't need help.Level 19 is tied with level 11 for the most quests in the 11-20 range, with 21 quests and tied for forth most across all heroic levels. Level 13 actually has fewer quests than 17 and 18.

[Qhualor]

Level 19 is tied with level 11 for the most quests in the 11-20 range, with 21 quests and tied for forth most across all heroic levels. Level 13 actually has fewer quests than 17 and 18.

I think the complaints really aren't about lack of quests. I think its about the lack of good xp or good xp/min quests and grouping. it used to be that a lot of players would bank level 19 for different reasons like there were a lot of level 16 quests with good xp. I don't know if those that play Reaper do the same thing, but I think you still get full xp if you are level 18 running level 19 content. the only quests in the level 17-19 range I do see as poor xp quests are IQ and Druids chain, but they are mostly short quests. still, there are at least 52 quests in that range including raids and I question more the way players level as more the issue with them.

[Odysseus2011]

Huh? How would one ER before 30, as being level 30 is a requirement to ER.

Maybe I could've used slightly better verbage; what I meant is that if first time bonuses reset with an ETR there could be possible abuse by some players; who use this fact to quickly reset first time bonuses before quickly leveling back up and then running level 30 quests for maximum reaper xp. By setting a specific time limit the developers could control how quickly the first time bonuses reset and therefore how quickly players can take advantage of it.


Which I thought was the point of the reset. If not, what would the point of resetting at all be?

The point of resetting first time bonuses is so that players who run epics can rerun quests on reaper after having performed an ETR and still receive a good amount of xp; right now players are unable to do so and rerunning a quest on reaper is a huge loss of xp. So much so that you're simply just better off jumping on an EN xp train; and that's the main reason these are so popular.

[Gremmlynn]

Maybe I could've used slightly better verbage; what I meant is that if first time bonuses reset with an ETR there could be possible abuse by some players; who use this fact to quickly reset first time bonuses before quickly leveling back up and then running level 30 quests for maximum reaper xp. By setting a specific time limit the developers could control how quickly the first time bonuses reset and therefore how quickly players can take advantage of it.I am operating under the assumption that first time bonuses would be reset for just normal xp, not reaper xp.

Though bringing it up actually makes me wonder if this is a backdoor attempt to get weekly reaper bonuses reset. Because, frankly, I can't see how leveling back to 30 to reset those bonuses could be more efficient than simply using the time it would take to do so running reaper without them.


The point of resetting first time bonuses is so that players who run epics can rerun quests on reaper after having performed an ETR and still receive a good amount of xp; right now players are unable to do so and rerunning a quest on reaper is a huge loss of xp. So much so that you're simply just better off jumping on an EN xp train; and that's the main reason these are so popular.Which resetting first time bonuses on ER would do. Resetting weekly would only do that for those who ER weekly, anyone faster would outstrip the reset and anyone slower would be encouraged to rerun higher base xp quests rather than other content for bonus.

[Gratch]

As for Heroic quests i think there is so much XP out there that i dont really care much what lvl range they are in.,
Epic lvl i think its proberly a good idea to have more quests and specially items for mid epic lvls. However makeing theese quest not also playable on Legendary 30+, is a BIG mistake. people still want something to grind for at cap. and you are exlcudeing theese quests from reaper mode at cap. when you lower the difficulty. is it not posible to do all 3 ??? So heroic for lvl 6ish, Epic for lvl20-28 ish. And last lvl 30+ for atleast the reaper difficulty for cap players. ( you dont even need to make the items that drop in the quests lvl 30. they can stay as they are allready designed. but not being able to play em on reaper as a capped toon stinks.


cheers DB

There has been 0 gear since two stat-inflation passes released for level 20 to level 27. I fully applaud some quests and moreso epic gear at those levels. Right now all non-weapon gear for most is Cannith Crafted in that range.
I'd also guess the largest set of questing/xp/gearing is coming from WPM at cap so they're not abandoning cap for this pack and are in fact giving it the spotlight quest. The other quests are probably all shorter quests similar to Mines/House J recent quests sets.

Also I don't think they really have a coded recipe to make a quest heroic & epic & legendary. The Delera's Event tech and challenges scale across levels... but no normal BB or reaper bonuses from that tech.

[Grace_ana]

Level 19 is tied with level 11 for the most quests in the 11-20 range, with 21 quests and tied for forth most across all heroic levels. Level 13 actually has fewer quests than 17 and 18.

But the xp doesn't keep up with the requirements. It's all in another thread: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/496214-Moar-low-level-quests-please?p=6095132&viewfull=1#post6095132

[Odysseus2011]

I am operating under the assumption that first time bonuses would be reset for just normal xp, not reaper xp.

Though bringing it up actually makes me wonder if this is a backdoor attempt to get weekly reaper bonuses reset. Because, frankly, I can't see how leveling back to 30 to reset those bonuses could be more efficient than simply using the time it would take to do so running reaper without them.

If it straight reset the first time bonuses after an ETR then I could very easily see static reaper groups do an ETR to maximize endgame reaper experience, a solid group can run from 20 to 30 in about 6-8hours; at which point if all the reaper bonuses had been reset they would get a first time bonus. I believe that doing so would actually be a very big increase, those first time bonuses give a ton of xp; and once they're gone your xp drops off dramatically. And that's the main issue with those mid level epic ranges; if you have a first time bonus the xp actually is pretty good and with a good group is probably preferable to running EN trains; but since those bonuses do not reset after an ETR people just run EN trains because the xp hit is massive, and if they've done 3 or more Epic Reincarnations almost all of their first time bonuses will be gone.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

I have all my ETRs done so tying a first time bonus reset to ETRing would be lame.

^^

I want first time bonuses on Reaper since I've been capped for over a year.

[Gremmlynn]

If it straight reset the first time bonuses after an ETR then I could very easily see static reaper groups do an ETR to maximize endgame reaper experience, a solid group can run from 20 to 30 in about 6-8hours; at which point if all the reaper bonuses had been reset they would get a first time bonus. I believe that doing so would actually be a very big increase, those first time bonuses give a ton of xp; and once they're gone your xp drops off dramatically. And that's the main issue with those mid level epic ranges; if you have a first time bonus the xp actually is pretty good and with a good group is probably preferable to running EN trains; but since those bonuses do not reset after an ETR people just run EN trains because the xp hit is massive, and if they've done 3 or more Epic Reincarnations almost all of their first time bonuses will be gone.So you believe the bonus is worth more than what one would get in those 6-8 hours just running the quests.

If so, IMO, more power to the people doing it. Personally I doubt enough players would be doing that to matter.

Also, as I said, nobody has suggested resetting reaper bonuses anyway. The suggestion was for standard xp bonuses as far as I can tell.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Also, as I said, nobody has suggested resetting reaper bonuses anyway. The suggestion was for standard xp bonuses as far as I can tell.

They're the same thing. Modifiers to quest XP affect reaper.

[Captain_Pengie]

We've never done a pack like this before in the free-to-play era, and we understand that the setup is a little unusual. But we hope the people who have been waiting patiently for something different to play at level 6 or new loot in the low epics will appreciate it.

Thank you so much for taking this approach. I (and I know I'm not alone) am tired of new content coming out all at level cap and having nothing new to do while passing through the levels (both heroic and epic). Please continue in this manner with at least some of the future updates and expansions by offering us new content at a variety of levels rather than slapping it all in at level cap when, quite frankly, many of us are already maxed out and looking to TR. Doing new things and having new gear options as you level is much more welcome to many of us than a bunch of stuff at cap which isn't going to get used because you are already about to cycle through again.

[Cantor]

I think the complaints really aren't about lack of quests. I think its about the lack of good xp or good xp/min quests and grouping. it used to be that a lot of players would bank level 19 for different reasons like there were a lot of level 16 quests with good xp. I don't know if those that play Reaper do the same thing, but I think you still get full xp if you are level 18 running level 19 content. the only quests in the level 17-19 range I do see as poor xp quests are IQ and Druids chain, but they are mostly short quests. still, there are at least 52 quests in that range including raids and I question more the way players level as more the issue with them.

When running reaper, I usually go for the sagas to cap out. There is some limited good exp at 17, there is no good xp at 18 and that pushes you to running 19s early. If you eat the terrible exp highroad offers you can make it up on the sagas and make cap. Even in low skulls some stormhorns quests can turn tough at 18.

[Cantor]

So you believe the bonus is worth more than what one would get in those 6-8 hours just running the quests.

If so, IMO, more power to the people doing it. Personally I doubt enough players would be doing that to matter.

Also, as I said, nobody has suggested resetting reaper bonuses anyway. The suggestion was for standard xp bonuses as far as I can tell.

uncomparably more, first time bonuses are huge. 120% 80% 25% for first time reaper, BB, greater tome.

how effectively are you going to spend those 6-8 hours making rxp at cap when rerunning reduces your gains? If reset you would be making extra gains on every quest run.

[Gremmlynn]

uncomparably more, first time bonuses are huge. 120% 80% 25% for first time reaper, BB, greater tome.

how effectively are you going to spend those 6-8 hours making rxp at cap when rerunning reduces your gains? If reset you would be making extra gains on every quest run.That assumes BB reset, which isn't a given considering running a quest heroic will allow first time difficulty bonus for epic, but not BB.

[Gremmlynn]

I think the complaints really aren't about lack of quests. I think its about the lack of good xp or good xp/min quests and grouping. it used to be that a lot of players would bank level 19 for different reasons like there were a lot of level 16 quests with good xp. I don't know if those that play Reaper do the same thing, but I think you still get full xp if you are level 18 running level 19 content. the only quests in the level 17-19 range I do see as poor xp quests are IQ and Druids chain, but they are mostly short quests. still, there are at least 52 quests in that range including raids and I question more the way players level as more the issue with them.Personally I hold all levels until I either finish the at level quests or get to close to hard cap to fit the xp in. While I expect most to be somewhere in between, especially if they find there isn't enough xp at the higher levels to one and done them.

[Selvera]

I nearly always take levels as soon as possible. When I'm a higher level I do more damage and can therefore get xp faster. Especially in epics.

The very rare exceptions is if the level gives me next to nothing (no new feats, no key enhancements, no powerful new class abilities, no new gear waiting), or if I really want to finish up some very high xp/min quests that I haven't done before I level (VoN 3 in heroics for example). Or if I'm in the middle of a quest chain with a group and want to finish the quest chain/group before I level.

Now that I own nearly all content; running out of xp at a level simply doesn't exist. Running out of good xp at any level pretty much doesn't exist either, unless you've ran all the good xp quests at a level while you were underleveled.

[Kilgrave]

Been reading up on White Plume Mountain can't wait hope the aquarium makes it in ;)

[Robbenklopper]

As with all old loot revamps, you'll need to reacquire these items to get the updated versions.

Stone of change? We know it's possible.

[Cantor]

Stone of change? We know it's possible.

I think we've all heard before that the bulk of work on updating items is in the retroactive update side. I'm fine with it not being retroactive it means we get more updates.

[Captain_Wizbang]

It's Phiarlan Carnival, the heroic items. The numbers will be up when Lamannia notes are posted (before you ask, no ETA on those - don't kill the messenger!)


Wow, thanks for the info.

I'm sure SSG has their reasons for this gear set.

Totally disappointed (for myself) Carnival items would have been WAY down on my list. So I hope what you're making is something worth farming for, (unlike the current items)

So much for ToD & Dragontouched items. Glad there's mimics to chase around today.