Pls make reapers spawn where the ddoor point is on r8 and higher

[Sam-u-r-eye]

ty, like one reaper every 2minutes would be very comedic

<3

[boredGamer]

This is a great idea on every reaper difficulty

[Morroiel]

Honestly, I've been saying ever since the first lamm preview for reaper that dimensional anchor should be implemented on all reaper content. At the bare minimum, it should be implemented for r10.

[AbyssalMage]

Honestly, I've been saying ever since the first lamm preview for reaper that dimensional anchor should be implemented on all reaper content. At the bare minimum, it should be implemented for r10.
Other than you vocally admitting you want to grief players...

What is the point of placing a Reaper at the DD point in a dungeon?

[slarden]

Awful idea that would result only in making it more difficult to let people join in-progress lfms.

Listening to these ideas like this has been very harmful to the game.

[Morroiel]

Other than you vocally admitting you want to grief players...

What is the point of placing a Reaper at the DD point in a dungeon?

How is dimensional anchor griefing players?

For reference: http://ddowiki.com/page/Dimensional_Anchor

[Yamani]

Awful idea that would result only in making it more difficult to let people join in-progress lfms.

Listening to these ideas like this has been very harmful to the game.

You're joining PUG's for R8 and higher??? I mean R10 sealed in amber maybe but others is very unlikely you'll see an lfm above R5 for pugging.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Awful idea that would result only in making it more difficult to let people join in-progress lfms.

Listening to these ideas like this has been very harmful to the game.

Would it make joining difficult? Ya! The party might have to come back and get you.
Would it be harmful to the game? No! Reaper is about teamwork not stupid rXP.

<3

The amount of ddoor cheese in this game is rediculous.
It needs to be penalized. DDOOR is OP already.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

How is dimensional anchor griefing players?

For reference: http://ddowiki.com/page/Dimensional_Anchor

<3

[slarden]

Would it make joining difficult? Ya! The party might have to come back and get you.
Would it be harmful to the game? No! Reaper is about teamwork not stupid rXP.

<3

The amount of ddoor cheese in this game is rediculous.
It needs to be penalized. DDOOR is OP already.

There are already spots in the game where ddoor is disabled. Disabling ddoor in spots where it's being abused makes sense - your suggestion does not make any sense to me. The reality is populations are low and people start with a core group and let others join while the quest is in process. That key social benefit is much more important than any perceived "Sam problem". 90%+ of the time I use ddoor it's to help a new party member that doesn't know the way or likely can't handle respawns solo -in both cases resulting in a slower completion time.

If people are ddooring in R8+ in all quests and all spots it has to be slowing down their completion time compared to groups that don't need to do that. That is their penalty and they can probably earn rxp more quickly by lowering skull level to something closer to their power level. If it's mainly in specific spots in specific quests the devs already have a mechanism to fix that.

There are too many negative social problems created with your proposal. This is the exact same type of post that got the stealth playstyle ruined over some perceived problem that was never really a problem to begin with.


You're joining PUG's for R8 and higher??? I mean R10 sealed in amber maybe but others is very unlikely you'll see an lfm above R5 for pugging.

I am on Sarlona and the best player in the game is on our server - he does post R6+ lfms and starts solo and takes the first 5 people to hit the lfm. Not all the time, but I've seen it quite a bit. The Chinese guilds used to post a lot of "in process" high skull lfms early USA hours, but I haven't seen those recently. The population has declined significantly on Sarlona since the introduction of reaper and racial tr.

I've solo'd quite a few R5s and while it's a little borderlin'ish for me to solo on my alts in the 30-50 reaper point range, I don't understand why you would think 3-4 people can't start an R6 with an "in process" lfm. Especially with so many people running around with 90+ reaper points. I am fairly certain I can solo some R6 if I can solo R5 and I am far behind the top players on the server because I play multiple alts and missed nearly 9 months entirely due to car accident injuries.

[Morroiel]

snip

Then drastically increase the casting time of ddoor in reaper (say an extra 5 seconds casting time per skull). This would not impact the use case you are detailing - if you plan to ddoor back to the start of the quest to help a newbie navigate r10 (id kind of question the odds that a newbie is going to go in on r10 but thats besides the point), immediately start casting the spell and by the time the new party member enters the quest, your cast will have completed.

Suggesting they go about fixing every spot where ddoor is useful to skip large parts of content / challenging fights, is a LOT more work.

[slarden]

Then drastically increase the casting time of ddoor in reaper (say an extra 5 seconds casting time per skull). This would not impact the use case you are detailing - if you plan to ddoor back to the start of the quest to help a newbie navigate r10 (id kind of question the odds that a newbie is going to go in on r10 but thats besides the point), immediately start casting the spell and by the time the new party member enters the quest, your cast will have completed.

Suggesting they go about fixing every spot where ddoor is useful to skip large parts of content / challenging fights, is a LOT more work.

You would need to provide proof there is actually a problem. Increasing ddoor cast time is fine with me - but again why waste developer time on it for a perceived problem. If people are ddooring frequently they must be completing extremely slowly already. It doesn't bother me in the least that people complete something slowly that is a higher difficulty. This reminds me of the "nerf warlock" threads because someone completed a 10 minute level cap quest in 90 minutes on a level 20 warlock.

I've seen no proof, just more crying a river because people are upset OTHER people are completing high skull quests using totally different cheese than they use.

If anything I would say enlarge should be disabled in high skull reaper. Charms should face the same damage penalty players face.

[draven1]

Better way is giving every reaper anti-magic field.
And immune to spell.

[Morroiel]

You would need to provide proof there is actually a problem. Increasing ddoor cast time is fine with me - but again why waste developer time on it for a perceived problem. If people are ddooring frequently they must be completing extremely slowly already. It doesn't bother me in the least that people complete something slowly that is a higher difficulty. This reminds me of the "nerf warlock" threads because someone completed a 10 minute level cap quest in 90 minutes on a level 20 warlock.

I've seen no proof, just more crying a river because people are upset OTHER people are completing high skull quests using totally different cheese than they use.

If anything I would say enlarge should be disabled in high skull reaper. Charms should face the same damage penalty players face.

ToEE Pt 1, ddoor is used frequently to bypass ooze (water key) and air key. On r10, it SO MUCH faster to ddoor in these spots than it is to fight. Ddoor can also be used in the endfight to autocomplete it (takes a lot of trial and error, and a few probably non WAI things).

ToEE pt 2, ddoor can be used to bypass the difficult parts of the fight (with a non wai charm combo - charming through the barrier).

And thats just toee - there's use cases for most quests. Some are more auto win than others.

Additionally, it completely negates any chance of wipes in quests without mechanics that prevent it. Jibbers + reborn in light + ddoor means that the risk of failure is either 100% or 0% in most cases.

[slarden]

ToEE Pt 1, ddoor is used frequently to bypass ooze (water key) and air key. On r10, it SO MUCH faster to ddoor in these spots than it is to fight. Ddoor can also be used in the endfight to autocomplete it (takes a lot of trial and error, and a few probably non WAI things).

ToEE pt 2, ddoor can be used to bypass the difficult parts of the fight (with a non wai charm combo - charming through the barrier).

And thats just toee - there's use cases for most quests. Some are more auto win than others.

Additionally, it completely negates any chance of wipes in quests without mechanics that prevent it. Jibbers + reborn in light + ddoor means that the risk of failure is either 100% or 0% in most cases.

I don't view that as some major problem that requires disabling ddoor for all legitimate uses- and in my opinion bypassing optional fights is a legitimate use.

I am ok if they add longer timer to ddoor as long as they also disable enlarge and give charms the same penalty that players face. Why fix only one abused thing?

[Morroiel]

I don't view that as some major problem that requires disabling ddoor for all legitimate uses- and in my opinion bypassing optional fights is a legitimate use.

I am ok if they add longer timer to ddoor as long as they also disable enlarge and give charms the same penalty that players face. Why fix only one abused thing?

Im fine with charms being nerfed. I also dont care if enlarge gets nerfed in reaper either.

Also those fight arent optional. If you dont have ddoor, you have to fight.

Without going into details those are just two examples from older content, theres use cases that i cant talk about on these forums which fundamnetally break difficult parts of certain raids.

Ddoor holds way more power than a single spell should much less a 3rd/4th level spell.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

You would need to provide proof there is actually a problem. Increasing ddoor cast time is fine with me - but again why waste developer time on it for a perceived problem. If people are ddooring frequently they must be completing extremely slowly already. It doesn't bother me in the least that people complete something slowly that is a higher difficulty. This reminds me of the "nerf warlock" threads because someone completed a 10 minute level cap quest in 90 minutes on a level 20 warlock.

I've seen no proof, just more crying a river because people are upset OTHER people are completing high skull quests using totally different cheese than they use.

If anything I would say enlarge should be disabled in high skull reaper. Charms should face the same damage penalty players face.

Had to +1 you on this even though I use Enlarge playing R3 and lower most the time solo. However, Charms become nearly 100% useless in epics with the short duration and frequent saves before the 6 secs run out.

In heroic Charms are great CC but not the be all end all to get quest completion. IF anything I would like nothing changed with Charm. Charm sucks in Epics and I don't use them so doing nothing keeps Charm nerfed for EPIC.

My opinion is very subjective as I don't use cheese tactics, run quests within the power level of my character and use tactical smart game play.

Using ddoor or any other cheese tactics to complete quests = weak-sauce in those that do but nerfing ddoor in some way also penalizes those of us that play the game STRAIGHT UP WITH NO CHEESE.

To the OP: If people want to cultivate their own weakness I say let them and find your own people who play DDO with the spirit of D&D.

[AbyssalMage]

How is dimensional anchor griefing players?

For reference: http://ddowiki.com/page/Dimensional_Anchor
Your asking for an unnecessary mechanic to be placed in an adventure because it is "Reaper" for no logical purpose or game balance.

Hence, I asked the question on why you feel such a drastic change is needed. Instead, you are upset that I called your proposal "purposeful griefing."

[AbyssalMage]

Would it make joining difficult? Ya! The party might have to come back and get you.
Would it be harmful to the game? No! Reaper is about teamwork not stupid rXP.

<3

The amount of ddoor cheese in this game is rediculous.
It needs to be penalized. DDOOR is OP already.
So you are advocating that they grief players. Did you also want the developers to greif players in the other DD thread (from a year'ish ago?)

Reaper is about rXP. Teamwork is just necessary dependent on Reaper Points and Build. R10 has been solo'd on day 1 (or maybe day 3). It was a way for SSG/Turbine to shut down the perpetual forumites who "wanted more challenge" and simply got more "Power Creep" in disguise. But whatever. I'm beginning to wonder if people will scream just to hear their voices lately. I know I am in the minority about Reaper (or most of the updates in the last ~6 years) so I'll keep vocally watching as players ruin the game because they can never be satisfied.

[AbyssalMage]

ToEE Pt 1, ddoor is used frequently to bypass ooze (water key) and air key. On r10, it SO MUCH faster to ddoor in these spots than it is to fight. Ddoor can also be used in the endfight to autocomplete it (takes a lot of trial and error, and a few probably non WAI things).
Water and Air key is WAI
End fight is probably an exploit. And I can look it up if I need to.


ToEE pt 2, ddoor can be used to bypass the difficult parts of the fight (with a non wai charm combo - charming through the barrier).
Again, your talking about an exploit.


And thats just toee - there's use cases for most quests. Some are more auto win than others.
Well, talking about exploits is developer frowned upon.
Talking about intentional game design that you dislike is well, "tough cookie." You sound like all the DM's on the forums who house rule everything into oblivion and make PnP games unfun.


Additionally, it completely negates any chance of wipes in quests without mechanics that prevent it. Jibbers + reborn in light + ddoor means that the risk of failure is either 100% or 0% in most cases.
Reborn by itself has been a thorn in the developers side for awhile. It's a thorn that should encourage them to step up their game, not nerf everything.
Jibber's is a "get out of jail free card" th.at was well implemented (but exceptionally tedious to farm).

Combining the two is a trade off of losing productivity (individual player power) as Reborn isn't in a great ED.
Don't punish the DD spell for players exploiting.

[Morroiel]

Water and Air key is WAI
End fight is probably an exploit. And I can look it up if I need to.


Again, your talking about an exploit.


Well, talking about exploits is developer frowned upon.
Talking about intentional game design that you dislike is well, "tough cookie." You sound like all the DM's on the forums who house rule everything into oblivion and make PnP games unfun.


Reborn by itself has been a thorn in the developers side for awhile. It's a thorn that should encourage them to step up their game, not nerf everything.
Jibber's is a "get out of jail free card" th.at was well implemented (but exceptionally tedious to farm).

Combining the two is a trade off of losing productivity (individual player power) as Reborn isn't in a great ED.
Don't punish the DD spell for players exploiting.

Ddo isnt pnp. Restrictions that you wouldnt normally place on pnp games is needed for ddo. Because MMORPGs have different design heuristics than a tabletop.

Exalted angel is a bad destiny?!?!? In fact it is the de facto destiny for dc casting because its so strong. Even non cha/wis based dc casters use this destiny. Almost 100% of 6 man groups in r10 will have someone in that destiny.

The fact that you don't know this leads me to believe that you dont play r10s and thus would be entirely unimpacted by locking away or nerfing ddoor in this difficulty.

Ddoor allowing you to skip fights might be wai BUT it makes certain quests multiple magnitudes of order easier. Reaper but more specifically reaper 10skull is/was supposed to be a challenging difficulty. I dont see whats sk awful about players asking for that difficulty bar being raised especially in a way the doesnt impact other difficulties.

[Clerize]

I think we as a community need to spend less time worrying about how others play the game and more time worrying about how we play the game. Don't like "cheesing" with DD, then don't use it in your parties.

IMO the devs should spend more time fixing the broken parts of the agro system which can lag wipe entire parties in reaper. Until that is done I can't get behind taking away a tool for recovering from these cases.

[Kylstrem]

I think we as a community need to spend less time worrying about how others play the game and more time worrying about how we play the game. Don't like "cheesing" with DD, then don't use it in your parties.

IMO the devs should spend more time fixing the broken parts of the agro system which can lag wipe entire parties in reaper. Until that is done I can't get behind taking away a tool for recovering from these cases.

This X1000000000000

Just tired of the sad souls on this forum constantly trying to make sure someone doesn't play the game in a manner that they can't/don't play.

[Wizza]

ToEE Pt 1, ddoor is used frequently to bypass ooze (water key) and air key. On r10, it SO MUCH faster to ddoor in these spots than it is to fight. Ddoor can also be used in the endfight to autocomplete it (takes a lot of trial and error, and a few probably non WAI things).

Both those keys have 1 thing in common: red nameds, with billion hit points, that are boring af.

And the cube is in a 1x1x1 locked room. Do you actually want to fight that?

Note: I don't care what they actually do to DDoor.

[Renvar]

I think dimensional anchor in raids like Baba and Strahd would be fine. They solved this problem in some older raids by putting a lockout door in, like Shroud or VoD.

[Shadow_Jumper]

Then drastically increase the casting time of ddoor in reaper (say an extra 5 seconds casting time per skull).

Only 5? I’d say 15-20 per skull at least

[FuryFlash]

You're joining PUG's for R8 and higher??? I mean R10 sealed in amber maybe but others is very unlikely you'll see an lfm above R5 for pugging.

We run R5+ PUGs almost every night on Thelanis - typically R7. It's definitely not unheard of.

[Pyed-Pyper]

oh boy where to begin ..

how about " CALLED IT! "

The "I burned through my sugar rush and need something new" crowd should definitely be ignored when it comes to general game design.


"challenge" does not always equal "fun"
example - doing 0-1 hp/swing vs 10^10 hp monster


+1 to pretty much everything Slarden and AbyssalMage posted in this thread.

[slarden]

Fancy that from a non-teamplayer in daily reaper on Ghallanda - you charm everything, don't give melees chance to build and sustain blitz. You moan about party and now ex-guild members :

1. not letting you be who you want to be / "I'll do what I want"
2. not play how you want to play "Don't tell me what to do"

yet in this self-proclaimed forum post you make a statement about being a "teamplayer" while in reaper content.

As a result of your selfish decision to "play how you want" and "do what you want" in reaper content with party members, you :

1. cause dungeon alert and randomness, creating more havoc
2. cause necessary deaths and griefing
3. leave a unsuspecting trail of un-charmed mobs around the dungeon

What kind of "teamplayer" is that ?

Hypocrite. Interesting but not surprising

[boredGamer]

I originally assumed this whole idea was for killing hirelings / bots that were hanging out at the entrance so you at least had to somewhat bring them along. Which I'm all for.

I don't *really* care about the new player entering the dungeon thing but, whatever. If a player can't kill *1* reaper in a quest, I'm not sure what they are doing there, and even if they are piking, which is fine, dying once shouldn't be a big deal. And if slarden *mostly uses ddoor to pick up new players*, then slarden shouldn't have any problem killing the reaper at the beginning of the quest.

If it's for *stopping ddoor abuse* - clearly it won't work, as any group zerging any reaper level will? should? be able to kill 1 reaper. (or maybe a couple reapers, if it's a new reaper ever <x> minutes)

[slarden]

I don't *really* care about the new player entering the dungeon thing but, whatever. If a player can't kill *1* reaper in a quest, I'm not sure what they are doing there, and even if they are piking, which is fine, dying once shouldn't be a big deal. And if slarden *mostly uses ddoor to pick up new players*, then slarden shouldn't have any problem killing the reaper at the beginning of the quest.


I shouldn't have to kill the reaper because the idea is so awful it should never be implemented. Besides read the op he said "reapers" and every so often you get a little lag when entering the front door or from the ddoor and it's a wipe. As other said, it's nothing more than a griefing mechanism. There's been no proof that ddoor is causing any problems other than suggestions that in a few specific places it might be - those can be addressed at the quest level.

As for the part in bold - your position makes sense for someone that doesn't care. I do care and want anyone joining my group to have a good and fun experience. reapers spawning at the quest entrance is a griefing mechanism plain and simple. We don't need to give people reasons to stop playing and stop grouping.

[Silverleafeon]

Why would one want Fear Reapers to spawn continuously at the entrance to a dungeon?

[boredGamer]

I shouldn't have to kill the reaper because the idea is so awful it should never be implemented. Besides read the op he said "reapers" and every so often you get a little lag when entering the front door or from the ddoor and it's a wipe. As other said, it's nothing more than a griefing mechanism. There's been no proof that ddoor is causing any problems other than suggestions that in a few specific places it might be - those can be addressed at the quest level.

As for the part in bold - your position makes sense for someone that doesn't care. I do care and want anyone joining my group to have a good and fun experience. reapers spawning at the quest entrance is a griefing mechanism plain and simple. We don't need to give people reasons to stop playing and stop grouping.

Nor do you care about even addressing the whole part of my post you quoted, instead attacking me for some reason when I wasn't even attacking you.

The scenario you suggest happens so rarely it's laughable, and is so easily dealt with even at those times it is ludicrous. For leaders that care, such as yourself, as you so selfishly pointed out, they could easily, easily deal with this.

I totally agree there isn't a *real reason* to implement this, but your reasons for not are just as bizarre.

[slarden]

Nor do you care about even addressing the whole part of my post you quoted, instead attacking me for some reason when I wasn't even attacking you.

The scenario you suggest happens so rarely it's laughable, and is so easily dealt with even at those times it is ludicrous. For leaders that care, such as yourself, as you so selfishly pointed out, they could easily, easily deal with this.

I totally agree there isn't a *real reason* to implement this, but your reasons for not are just as bizarre.

I am not sure what you considered an attack but that wasn't my intent. I merely restated exactly what you said that you don't care.

My point is that this post is about a person that has their underwear all tied up in knots about something I rarely even see happen in game. Sure I've seen ddoor used as a get out of jail free card a few times, but retracing back to where you were is time-consuming so I don't find it to be abusive.

As for specific abuses of ddoor- report those to the devs so they can put in a dimensional anchor where needed to fix specific problems, but I don't see a reason to implement this globally because the problem described isn't a real problem in all quests. Still, charms and enlarge are much bigger issues so why focus on ddoor.



Why would one want Fear Reapers to spawn continuously at the entrance to a dungeon?

It's a case of be careful what you ask for - you just might get it.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

I think we as a community need to spend less time worrying about how others play the game and more time worrying about how we play the game. Don't like "cheesing" with DD, then don't use it in your parties.

IMO the devs should spend more time fixing the broken parts of the agro system which can lag wipe entire parties in reaper. Until that is done I can't get behind taking away a tool for recovering from these cases.

I agree I am being impractical and silly.

[noobodyfool]

ty, like one reaper every 2minutes would be very comedic

<3

this should happen only to you

[Wipey]

ty, like one reaper every 2minutes would be very comedic

<3

Pfft, six or seven at once is comedic.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1760/42459580552_ba5b320edb_h.jpg

<3

[noobodyfool]

Pfft, six or seven at once is comedic.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1760/42459580552_ba5b320edb_h.jpg

<3

Got to love that cheese hold them big bad reapers

[Tahlee]

noobodyfool Got to love that cheese hold them big bad reapers

It sounds to me , from what I've read of your posts, that any spell successfully implemented is something you regard as cheese . As for DDoor the spell as implemented in our game has far less utility the the Pen and Paper version it is derived from. I agree with a teleport lock at higher levels of reaper if it adds to an enjoyable level of challenge.

Yours Truly

Tahlee

[noobodyfool]

noobodyfool Got to love that cheese hold them big bad reapers

It sounds to me , from what I've read of your posts, that any spell successfully implemented is something you regard as cheese . As for DDoor the spell as implemented in our game has far less utility the the Pen and Paper version it is derived from. I agree with a teleport lock at higher levels of reaper if it adds to an enjoyable level of challenge.

Yours Truly

Tahlee

If it sounds that way to you, you may need to see a ear nose and throat specialist because that's not at all what I'm saying

[Wipey]

Got to love that cheese hold them big bad reapers
It's like cheese factory indeed. Cheesy tanking, cheesy attentive hjealers that *gasp* hjeal and cast, cheesy crowd control from quick wizard. Melee monk and pally is the biggest cheese !

Teamwork doesn't align with your superhero crappy melee agenda ?

[noobodyfool]

It's like cheese factory indeed. Cheesy tanking, cheesy attentive hjealers that *gasp* hjeal and cast, cheesy crowd control from quick wizard. Melee monk and pally is the biggest cheese !

It's hard to understand what your saying it seems to run together. What is hjeal?
If you have cc's you don't need a tank, cheese control is much better.


Teamwork doesn't align with your superhero crappy melee agenda ? You are hilarious.
Actually it does if you have 2 healers they can both heal what happens if they are trying to heal the same character?
Or how about 2 tanks could the party be better suited with 6 healers or 6 tanks how would that work out?
If you were not playing in reaper would you need 2 attentive healer?
The question is what parts make up the team and what characters will play those parts?

For instance
LeBron James 1st. game of the nba finals just scored 51 points, 8 rebounds, 8 assists,1 block,1 steal.
The final score was 114 to 124 Labron's team scored 114 points 10 other players for Labron's team play that night yet he scored almost half the points, stuffed every other stat making him a modern day SUPERMAN.

His ability to do it all is what makes him so special not just lead the kill count.

Contrast Kevin Love He could be liken to a quasi-tank in ddo.
He plays power forward down low in the paint banging for rebounds and will stretch the defense to pop 3's and that's not normal for a 7ft guy.
He scored 21 points, 13 rebs, 1 ast, 0 blks, 0 stls very nice work making him a modern day BATMAN

So Batman is cool SUPERMAN is just Hilariously OVERPOWERED

PS Stay META