Be nice to your trapper

[Grace_ana]

A rogue assassin was my first toon in DDO, and I still have her. She's my main and the one with the most investment. So I am often the default trapper in our group of friends when we encounter stuff that needs it.

Enter The Curse of Strahd.

Now, I've noticed over the years that people have an inexplicable compulsion to stand literally right on top of the trapper while she is trapping. Why? I have no idea. But this rose to great new heights of annoyance in Strahd. For those who are unfamiliar, there is a winding staircase with traps, mobs, and occasional large patches of spikes. The traps can kill some of the party, and so it's actually important to disable them. To get to most of them, the trapper has to maneuver around the spikes, which is doable if you can see them, because they do a lot of damage regardless of reflex save.

Here's where all these come together.

I am happily trapping my way up the staircase, except everyone wants to stand RIGHT ON FREAKIN TOP OF ME. Every time I move, they are there too. Then we get to the spikes. I can't see where I am in relation to the spikes, because I'm a tiny halfling and everyone else is a Tall Person. I try to get to traps, but hit the spikes instead - repeatedly - and I die. Now, I've died before. It's not the worst thing in the world. But when I die because people can't find it within themselves to stand just a few feet back, it's wicked irritating.

Just communicate that to people, you say? Oh, we have tried. We have asked people a hundred times: "Don't stand on the trapper. Back off from the trapper. Hey, You Specific Person, knock it off and get off the trapper." Nothing works. They will still do it. I even heard ridiculous reasons, like "We are protecting you from the arrows, if we shield block you won't get hit by them." (Totally false.) It's gotten to the point that I refuse to trap in that raid anymore, but then I have to watch people do it to the other trapper, which is just as enraging, it turns out.

So PSA, folks. Don't use your trapper as a stepstool. I promise you'll get there quicker if you just hang back a few paces.

[MichaelKindrhead]

+1..

on behalf of my favorite rogue alts, thank you, thank you, thank you

[blerkington]

A second good reason not to stand right on the trapper in there is because the aggro you have may be causing them to get hit by missile fire, AoE spells and swinging monsters.

Thanks.

[Ravenwolf1]

Yes Yes Yes, 100 %!!!! I knew you had to be from Mass when I read Wicked, lol. It is totally Wicked Irritating!!

[MistaMagic]

I never have that problem probably because I do not show as a trapper and if I did enough people know me to do as I "ask politely" Cough!

[CaptainPurge]

People who do that probably have never played a trapper. Or, highly probable +

[Thrudh]

I even heard ridiculous reasons, like "We are protecting you from the arrows, if we shield block you won't get hit by them." (Totally false.)

FYI, Shield blocking is indeed a thing.

It's one of the best things about combat in this game. Real-time physics detection. An arrow that hits the guy in front of you does not hit you. My favorite moment in the first week of DDO years ago was side-stepping an arrow, and it hit the guy standing BEHIND me. That was awesome and hooked me forever.

But I'm not saying that's a good reason to stand on top of the trapper (if nothing else, they should be in FRONT of the trapper, closer to the archers).

[silinteresting]

pfff you think youve got problems lol, try being a rogue who does not
do traps then and only then will you understand the pain.

your friend sil :)

[Grace_ana]

FYI, Shield blocking is indeed a thing.

It's one of the best things about combat in this game. Real-time physics detection. An arrow that hits the guy in front of you does not hit you. My favorite moment in the first week of DDO years ago was side-stepping an arrow, and it hit the guy standing BEHIND me. That was awesome and hooked me forever.

But I'm not saying that's a good reason to stand on top of the trapper (if nothing else, they should be in FRONT of the trapper, closer to the archers).

It only works if the mobs do not have precise shot or IPS. Which, in the new epics, they usually do. So in Strahd, it's not a thing.

EDIT: And, given that the mobs are above the group on the staircase, you aren't going to block them anyway. They have line of sight to everyone in the group.

[Thrudh]

It only works if the mobs do not have precise shot or IPS. Which, in the new epics, they usually do. So in Strahd, it's not a thing.

Ah my apologies... I learned something new! Thanks for the clarification.

[Scrapco]

I'm just trying to pick up some tips, so I figured if I watched over your shoulder, it'd help. :p

[J1NG]

My big annoyance is with the stacking movement on top as well. If you're helping disable traps (another trapper), fine. But others please stay away. As even if the mobs don't attack "us" the trappers, being near us means when the AOE attacks happen, they hit us then too. And because we're further away from the healer who knows not to be around us, we often die from heals not hitting us in time.

If you have to, in order to grab aggro away from the front trappers, come up then go back down so they see and attack you. Don't stick around the trappers. Trappers in stealth, invis, etc won't be targetted under most circumstances.

J1NG

[DYWYPI]

Alas it seems likely some of the people in your Raid groups have cloth ears or are rather impatient. Or possibly ignorant; assuming you've successfully communicated in a polite manner they are obstructing your "Trapping" progress, etc. I've never had the problem of people deliberately parking on top of my Assassins within PUG raids whilst I'm disabling Trap Control Panels. I exclusively play Assassins [when I'm] within Raids and most weeks I'll be within one or more Epic PUG Raids.

A wise Rogue adapts themself to circumstances, as water shapes itself to the vessel that contains it.

[Mornyngstar]

The other annoyance for me in the Strahd Raid was the wizard trapper that ran ahead of me and 1 out of every 3 boxes he disabled blew up. To be straight I was a first lifer while they were multi Tred but I had let the group know that I was purely geared as a trapper.

[SpartanKiller13]

I can't speak for Raids, but I've recently discovered that you can buy Epic Rogue Hirelings for plat. As such, if I'm following you I'm probably trying to figure out trap locations - however this really only applies to lower difficulty stuff like Dailies - I just want to learn so I can get the easy XP bonus in the future (given that I don't really play trappers myself) :)

Otherwise I tend to stand behind the trapper and spam them with heals+temps whenever they drop below full HP, or if I'm confident in my survival of said traps I will rush ahead to aggro stuff so they don't get bothered.

Sorry about your issues! Hope that people pick up on helping you out/getting out of the way in the future. Trappers are to be respected for making the world a safer place while giving the rest of us more of that sweet sweet XP and sometimes even loot :cool:

[Grace_ana]

I can't speak for Raids, but I've recently discovered that you can buy Epic Rogue Hirelings for plat. As such, if I'm following you I'm probably trying to figure out trap locations - however this really only applies to lower difficulty stuff like Dailies - I just want to learn so I can get the easy XP bonus in the future (given that I don't really play trappers myself) :)

Otherwise I tend to stand behind the trapper and spam them with heals+temps whenever they drop below full HP, or if I'm confident in my survival of said traps I will rush ahead to aggro stuff so they don't get bothered.

Sorry about your issues! Hope that people pick up on helping you out/getting out of the way in the future. Trappers are to be respected for making the world a safer place while giving the rest of us more of that sweet sweet XP and sometimes even loot :cool:

Trying to learn locations is fine - but you can easily see them from several feet away. I promise you don't need a shoulder ride to get them :)

[Enoach]

I've had two reasons to "stand over the trapper"

1. To provide a shield wall while they disable since it can be disrupted and archers can be a pain.
2. Because the safest place to stand is where the rogue is :)

On a more serious note, do be aware that your summoned Hezarus do make selecting trap boxes a challenge :)

I'm always grateful when I don't have to take damage from a trap. Tips hat to all those that take the time to disable them for other's benefit.

[SpartanKiller13]

Trying to learn locations is fine - but you can easily see them from several feet away. I promise you don't need a shoulder ride to get them :)

I don't, just explaining why I might be near :)

While bodyblocking for arrows is a thing, I've never really bothered because in DDO arrows from NPC's are hilariously ineffective (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnnoyingArrows) compared to everything else. Just throw a heal every now and then lol. VS melee enemies sure I'll get in the way, but it's rare that those are at the same time as traps.

[Grace_ana]

I don't, just explaining why I might be near :)

While bodyblocking for arrows is a thing, I've never really bothered because in DDO arrows from NPC's are hilariously ineffective (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnnoyingArrows) compared to everything else. Just throw a heal every now and then lol. VS melee enemies sure I'll get in the way, but it's rare that those are at the same time as traps.

I'm willing to bet that you can't bodyblock arrows coming from above...

[Enoach]

I'm willing to bet that you can't bodyblock arrows coming from above...

It is harder as a dwarf, halfing and gnome but that is what the Jump skill is for :)

[Grace_ana]

It is harder as a dwarf, halfing and gnome but that is what the Jump skill is for :)

Doesn't matter what race you are. If they are above you, they have the angle to hit you.

I gotta be honest, I've gotten hit plenty from arrows as a trapper on the Strahd staircase, but I've only died to the stupid spikes from people standing on me. So maybe forget about the bodyblocking, because it's stupid and ineffective and is worse than the alternative.

Please. I'm begging you guys.

[Fallout47]

News Flash to anyone running that staircase with a cleric by the name of Feelgooddr, if you ain't trapping you ain't at the top of my list to heal. Our trapper is spammed with renewal/cocoon/any level of heal needed to insure surviving to disarm those 17 traps. Anyone ahead of our trapper is on their own. I want off that staircase ASAP. Thank you to all rogues, you are greatly appreciated, at least by your fellow players.

[Saekee]

under no conditions should rogues do traps. Rogues can evade them fine. Let the others die.

This is the art of roguedom. Oh, and setting traps. A true professional admires a dungeon’s traps so deeply that he or she would sooner disable a work of art.

[boredGamer]

Your theory here is the people that don't listen to you speak, or write, in GROUP - are going to come to the forums, read this thread, take it to heart, and learn something from it ?

[Scrapco]

under no conditions should rogues do traps. Rogues can evade them fine. Let the others die.

This is the art of roguedom. Oh, and setting traps. A true professional admires a dungeon’s traps so deeply that he or she would sooner disable a work of art.

I love it. Should get bonus 10% xp for being a rogue of proper alignment and *not* doing traps. :D

[FuzzyDuck81]

under no conditions should rogues do traps. Rogues can evade them fine. Let the others die.

This is the art of roguedom. Oh, and setting traps. A true professional admires a dungeon’s traps so deeply that he or she would sooner disable a work of art.

An artificer with that attitude can't help themselves & end up tinkering with it to make it better: "hmm.. spinning blades, good, very nice coverage of the passageway there... but there's a couple of holes in the defense where they can be avoided - I think it could be more efficient for purpose if I cast grease on it, that'll sort that problem out."

[DYWYPI]

I haven't entered 'The Curse of Strahd' Raid, albeit I have been in groups where eager Multi-class Trappers have got to a Control box before me, and blown boxes. I don't fail traps in quests I enter; even though I'm not a 'Trapper build' or 'Build enthusiast' with powerful gear.


The other annoyance for me in the Strahd Raid was the wizard trapper that ran ahead of me and 1 out of every 3 boxes he disabled blew up. ...

That sounds like the Wizard's Search DC was adequate to find the Control Panels, I suspect perhaps a Search DC in the low nineties for Elite... Trap DC as a rule of thumb is loosely ~ +10 DC higher than Search DC. Though for "Critical Failure" to occur the Disable Roll, was at least 5 DC, below the trap's Disable DC.

Suggesting their active Disable Device DC was much lower than their Search DC and by a long way... Because if your Search DC is equal to your Disable skills before adding: +4 or +5 Thieves' tools, you're very unlikely to fail a Disable DC Roll, assuming the Search DC uncovered the Control Panel.


[...] On a more serious note, do be aware that your summoned Hezarus do make selecting trap boxes a challenge ...

Yes, in the past I've had to work with other people's summoned Hezrous standing in front of my face while targeting Locks. Summon Succubus, might be more pleasing on the eyes but still it slows the "trapping" process slightly when they are in front of your nose.


[...] Oh, and setting traps. A true professional admires a dungeon's traps so deeply that he or she would sooner disable a work of art. ...

Although it is true most Rogues can pass through the majority of active traps they still need "someone else" to be fed to the large group of monsters on the other side of the trap. If we are attacked by zombies I don't have to run fast. I just have to run faster than you. ;-)

[Grace_ana]

That sounds like the Wizard's Search DC was adequate to find the Control Panels, I suspect perhaps a Search DC in the low nineties for Elite... Trap DC as a rule of thumb is loosely ~ +10 DC higher than Search DC. Though for "Critical Failure" to occur the Disable Roll, was at least 5 DC, below the trap's Disable DC.

Suggesting their active Disable Device DC was much lower than their Search DC and by a long way... Because if your Search DC is equal to your Disable skills before adding: +4 or +5 Thieves' tools, you're very unlikely to fail a Disable DC Roll, assuming the Search DC uncovered the Control Panel.

I understood it to mean that he searched the panel, and then the wizard ran to it and blew it. I’ve had people do that to me. It’s pretty irritating.

[Kipling]

pfff you think youve got problems lol, try being a rogue who does not
do traps then and only then will you understand the pain.

your friend sil :)

What do you do with all the skill points? Is this like playing a cleric that does not heal, or playing a barbarian that does not kill? :confused:

[Scrapco]

What do you do with all the skill points? Is this like playing a cleric that does not heal, or playing a barbarian that does not kill? :confused:

My barb does traps. :D

[Kipling]

My barb does traps. :D

My barb is skilled at trap finding. Disabling? Not so much. :cool:

[AbyssalMage]

under no conditions should rogues do traps. Rogues can evade them fine. Let the others die.

This is the art of roguedom. Oh, and setting traps. A true professional admires a dungeon’s traps so deeply that he or she would sooner disable a work of art.


An artificer with that attitude can't help themselves & end up tinkering with it to make it better: "hmm.. spinning blades, good, very nice coverage of the passageway there... but there's a couple of holes in the defense where they can be avoided - I think it could be more efficient for purpose if I cast grease on it, that'll sort that problem out."
These have to be the best quotes of this thread (for giggles).

[Grace_ana]

An artificer with that attitude can't help themselves & end up tinkering with it to make it better: "hmm.. spinning blades, good, very nice coverage of the passageway there... but there's a couple of holes in the defense where they can be avoided - I think it could be more efficient for purpose if I cast grease on it, that'll sort that problem out."

It's too bad everyone has FOM in that raid. Grease scrolls would be really useful to slide everyone back several steps.

[DYWYPI]

I've also been in groups where the other pure Rogues have been unable to find Control Panels or sometimes they 'Critically Failed' to disarm Trap boxes. Whereas I likely wouldn't have failed the Trap's Disable DC roll, even on a Roll of 1. So long as when politely asked; the player that is floundering and repeatedly Failing Traps; lets the more competent person deal with the Traps it's not too bad. :-)


I understood it to mean that he searched the panel, and then the wizard ran to it and blew it. ...

Since Mornyngstar mentioned [Post #14] the other Player "ran ahead" it could mean either: the "Wizard Trapper" successfully found the Control Box; or leapfrogged to an already uncovered Control Panel. It's mostly irrelevant, except regarding final outcome: KABOOM! ;-)

In either case the [Wizard Trapper] Critically Failed several Traps. Presumably not due to them absentmindedly forgetting to wear their Disable Device items; the "Critically Failed" Trap remains active and NOT disarmed. :-/

It should have plainly occurred to group and the [Wizard Trapper]; the Rogue played by Mornyngstar possibly might have been more proficient at meeting the Disable DC. Since [Mornyngstar] mentioned they were focused on "disabling traps" it would have been easy enough to compare each of their Disable Device skill, values.

Anyone with an ounce of common sense; that kept repeatedly "Failing Traps" would have asked the other Rogue if they had a higher Disable Device skill... instead of mindlessly and stupidly continuing to fail traps after the first, or second trap they'd Critically Failed.

[PermaBanned]

under no conditions should rogues do traps. Rogues can evade them fine. Let the others die.

This is the art of roguedom. Oh, and setting traps. A true professional admires a dungeon’s traps so deeply that he or she would sooner disable a work of art.
So to be clear...

What you're actually saying is...

That I should start adding my top level Grease, Sleet Storm & Glitterdust traps to the staircase?

Gotcha, on it ^^


It's too bad everyone has FOM in that raid. Grease scrolls would be really useful to slide everyone back several steps.
Test that theory (with friends, ofc), you migh be surprised at the amount of cursing ;)

[slarden]

Thanks for the idea

[bls904c2]

not to go off topic but are not the spikes in strude raid a will save.

but does not matter im the jerk sprinting up the stairs setting the traps off.