Use new Sealed In Amber tech to improve stealth options

[redoubt]

In Sealed in Amber you lock doors if too many mobs are active.

Why not use this in all the dungeons? Make most doors unlocked to start. When the DA hits a specified level, the doors lock until the DA goes back down.

[Saekee]

/signed

[Joinaxx]

Seems like a good compromise. /signed

[AbyssalMage]

In Sealed in Amber you lock doors if too many mobs are active.

Why not use this in all the dungeons? Make most doors unlocked to start. When the DA hits a specified level, the doors lock until the DA goes back down.
Wait, what???

Who was the developer who thought of such a reasonable solution?

[korgzz_bloodaxe]

Not signed as this makes no sense at all. The only reason the doors in Sealed in Amber do that is because the doors are partially sentient i.e. driven by passwords. Having a normal door lock because there are monsters in a room or active is a stupid design that already features in quests like Slavers.

A vastly better design is to have keys held by monsters or hidden in furniture/chests that can be looted while in stealth.

[Baylen76]

This auto-lock mechanic is brilliant! Finally a way to stop mob-training without killing stealth playstyle in the process.

Man. If we ever find out who came up with this I am so going to send them some chocolate into the office.

[Joinaxx]

A vastly better design is to have keys held by monsters or hidden in furniture/chests that can be looted while in stealth.

I like this idea also.

A keyholder mob could have an icon above his head like a champion's. Since we don't have a pickpocket skill, any status effect that can make the "keyholder" helpless will make him drop the key. Of course, killing the keyholder will also make them drop the key.

If something like this can be put into the game, I'll be interested in a stealthy playstyle again. I miss Mr. Cow's walkthrough videos where he uses stealth for fast completion of some quests.

[PermaBanned]

I like this idea also.

A keyholder mob could have an icon above his head like a champion's. Since we don't have a pickpocket skill, any status effect that can make the "keyholder" helpless will make him drop the key. Of course, killing the keyholder will also make them drop the key.Not being fond of the over head Champ markers, I'd prefer something a bit more subtle - like adding keys to the mob's look (dangling from a string around the neck, whatever). But over all, nice DDOish sub for Pick Pockets :)

[slarden]

Not signed as this makes no sense at all. The only reason the doors in Sealed in Amber do that is because the doors are partially sentient i.e. driven by passwords. Having a normal door lock because there are monsters in a room or active is a stupid design that already features in quests like Slavers.

A vastly better design is to have keys held by monsters or hidden in furniture/chests that can be looted while in stealth.

What he is talking about is that if you run away from fights in sealed in amber you are unable to open doors even with the password. You get a message indicating you must clear more enemies before proceeding.

Obviously going back and changing old content would be very time-consuming, but I agree with OP sentiment that the current stealth playstyle destruction is bad for the game.

[redoubt]

What he is talking about is that if you run away from fights in sealed in amber you are unable to open doors even with the password. You get a message indicating you must clear more enemies before proceeding.



Correct. Thanks for helping clarify.

[GeoffWatson]

Making this a general game rule would totally suck.

Some quests the monsters get activated on the other side of doors or walls, or even on other levels of the dungeon. Having doors lock when you have no way of reaching the monsters to kill them is totally stupid.

How does this improve stealth?
It would just make things slower as more doors would be locked.
Or do you mean that we don't have to track down keys in distant parts of the dungeon if the alert level is low?

[redoubt]

Some quests the monsters get activated on the other side of doors or walls, or even on other levels of the dungeon. Having doors lock when you have no way of reaching the monsters to kill them is totally stupid.

Well that does happen, but it is broken. And no, that is not what I mean. Its also a good point, with the multitude of problems with DA, it might be the wrong thing to tie the doors to. See below for another way to do it.



How does this improve stealth?
It would just make things slower as more doors would be locked.
Or do you mean that we don't have to track down keys in distant parts of the dungeon if the alert level is low?

No, you still have to go find keys if those are objectives.

What I am talking about is rooms and hallways with groups of mobs in front of a locked door. The door magically unlocks when all those mobs die. Every other mob in the dungeon can be alerted under the current system, but the door still unlocks when that specific group of mobs dies.

The door locking mechanism I'm talking about would still trigger of that same set off of mobs as it does today. For example, there are 6 mobs guarding an area with a door behind them. That door is unlocked. If one or more of those mobs becomes aggro'd on a character, the door locks and stays locked until the mob(s) are dead or they drop agro and return to their resting state.

This would allow a good stealth character to sneak past, open the door and continue on without a fight. Everyone else still has the option to kill on 6 and continue on. (This is required today anyway, so no change for non-stealth characters.)


Again, great point about how the DA and alerting can spread in unintended ways. Thanks for participating in the discussion!

[korgzz_bloodaxe]

What he is talking about is that if you run away from fights in sealed in amber you are unable to open doors even with the password. You get a message indicating you must clear more enemies before proceeding.


I understood exactly what he meant. The big difference is those doors have a reason they can do that. A REGULAR door locking and unlocking by itself makes absolutely no sense.

[redoubt]

I understood exactly what he meant. The big difference is those doors have a reason they can do that. A REGULAR door locking and unlocking by itself makes absolutely no sense.

How does a door unlock with the mobs in front of it die??? That makes not sense either, but that is exactly what happens with a huge number of doors today. You must kill all the mobs to open the door. How does the door know when all the mobs are dead an unlock itself?

So, why? Well, the logical leap is to say that after we kill all the mobs, we search the bodies and find a key (but they don't make us look for it.)

In the same manner, just say that when the mobs are alerted, one of them locks the door, then unlocks it if the alert goes away. This is no greater of a leap that the current set up.

[slarden]

I understood exactly what he meant. The big difference is those doors have a reason they can do that. A REGULAR door locking and unlocking by itself makes absolutely no sense.

Dragons, Orcs, Wizards and dying and getting reincarnated doesn't make sense either - it D&D.

[korgzz_bloodaxe]

Dragons, Orcs, Wizards and dying and getting reincarnated doesn't make sense either - it D&D.

That is exactly my point... Doors do not lock and unlock in D&D because there is too many active monsters....I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make. My point is there should be a D&D plausible explanation for the mechanism like I provided before. Make the key drop off one of monsters or let a rogue pick the lock or pickpocket the mob or stealth/loot the key from a container.



How does a door unlock with the mobs in front of it die??? That makes not sense either, but that is exactly what happens with a huge number of doors today. You must kill all the mobs to open the door. How does the door know when all the mobs are dead an unlock itself?

So, why? Well, the logical leap is to say that after we kill all the mobs, we search the bodies and find a key (but they don't make us look for it.)

In the same manner, just say that when the mobs are alerted, one of them locks the door, then unlocks it if the alert goes away. This is no greater of a leap that the current set up.

That is exactly what I said. The mechanism in Slavers (doors unlock when mobs die) is a weak design. I'm not sure if you actually read what I wrote. I would much prefer if a mob actually dropped a key and then the player looted it or better yet allow for stealth/alternative ways to open the doors.

Dungeon alert is better solved using things that actually make sense. Sealed in Amber makes sense! Applying the same approach to NORMAL doors does not!

[Enoach]

I like the lock doors and prevent forward progress more then "super slow all the party members" especially since that doesn't prevent completing the quest as the slowed people are usually the ones that had little to do with the alert.

[zehnvhex]

Not signed.

I enjoy charm builds. I also enjoy speed builds. Not sure why you guys want to kill those for apparently no reason at all. Not sure how this would 'fix' stealth when it's an engine issue, not a gameplay one.

[Aelonwy]

How does a door unlock with the mobs in front of it die??? That makes not sense either, but that is exactly what happens with a huge number of doors today. You must kill all the mobs to open the door. How does the door know when all the mobs are dead an unlock itself?


There was a discussion on the Suggestions forum not too long ago calling this phenomenon Life Sealed Doors the door is sealed closed until the lives of the mobs meant to guard it are ended. It was also discussed that this could be varied such that it could be an entire room of mobs, it could be a specific mob that may not even be in the room with the door (a named monster for instance) or it could be handled such that reducing the percentage of mobs linked to the magical seal on the door would allow other ways to open it.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/494889-Lifesealed-Doors

[redoubt]

Not signed.

I enjoy charm builds. I also enjoy speed builds. Not sure why you guys want to kill those for apparently no reason at all. Not sure how this would 'fix' stealth when it's an engine issue, not a gameplay one.

Nothing in this suggestion would affect either of those.

Charms don't count as aggro'd so you could open the door. (Under current rules, you'd have to dismiss the charm and kill it to get the door open. So, I guess it does affect this, but you are better off.)

Speed builds today run into "life force locked" doors and must kill all the mobs to progress. This would work exactly the same with my suggestion.

The real difference is that characters who did you alert / agro the mobs could open the doors without killing the mobs.

[redoubt]

Not signed.

.

I was hoping to hear from you again. See if I was able to change your mind?

[FlimsyFirewood]

This auto-lock mechanic is brilliant! Finally a way to stop mob-training without killing stealth playstyle in the process.

Man. If we ever find out who came up with this I am so going to send them some chocolate into the office.

I made the dungeon, but please don't send chocolate, I dislike it.

[Baylen76]

Now I'm doubly amazed - wish I had that type of will save against chocolate!

Just my thanks then for the making that dungeon, it's one of my favourites not only for its mechanics, but also for humor and atmosphere. Greatly appreciated.

[Talzor]

I made the dungeon, but please don't send chocolate, I dislike it.
With the risk of sounding like an insufferable suck-up, can I just say that this is an incredibly well made quest and has joined Party Crashers, The Pit, Rushmore and the Delirium quests as the very best in DDO. Want more quests like these! :)

[janave]

I made the dungeon, but please don't send chocolate, I dislike it.

Well done, it is one of the most enjoyable from the expansion.