review of toxic treatment

[Hobgoblin]

some spoilers - done on he as a level 30

ugh


thats it.

ok the elders with the hulks is ok. actually want to learn more about the cave and explore it, since i saw areas that i couldnt get to

the one with the puzzles - i like the floor puzzle from monastery. it was interesting

simon says kinda sucks, but i can live with that

now the opt with the mushrooms. that sucks that sucks more then a black hole. grumble grumble rage rage.

really hard to see where you are going as the camera over the shoulder is blocked by foliage. traps were not ttoo bad, but did you have to put that many of them? that noise was annoying running through.

again with the camera, was hard to spot the mushrooms that you were looking for. also was inaccurate with backspacing to see mushrooms - would like it one way or another to see if they show up. some would show, others would not even if you were right in front

finally the map was much lighter and hard to see where you were going and had been.

ok the boss fight.

!E$%$%$#%^&^%$&%^%^*$^&^%&^%^$%^%$^^$%$%^

thats my review of the boss fight.

now that i got that out of the way - if i ever try it again, i think i will kill the eyes first and then the boss. got overwhelmed by them and got nibbled to death. shouldnt happen to a level 30 in a level 14 quest, but i kinda like that you need strategy. will grab my fom boots next time and that should help

so while i am annoyed by the endfight i can take that.

finally as a general note, drops are way too low. ran whole chain one elite twice with the exception of toxic, and no named items.

so tl;dr mushrooms suck because of camera angles, loot drops are low, boss fight sucks

[cru121]

stuff would be more palatable if ddoor took you to the village center

jungle paths are a pita

why is the lever that opens the gate to temple in such an obscure location? I missed in during my first run. frustrating...

end fight is a pita

I hate it when we're not moving northward in a quest, that makes the map be worse than it is.

positives: the few map notes help

[Hobgoblin]

stuff would be more palatable if ddoor took you to the village center

jungle paths are a pita

why is the lever that opens the gate to temple in such an obscure location? I missed in during my first run. frustrating...

end fight is a pita

I hate it when we're not moving northward in a quest, that makes the map be worse than it is.

positives: the few map notes help

also i may have missed it, but shouldnt all the drow have noticed the diciples coming in and attacking there temple? just seems like a hole in the plot

[axel15810]

Solo'ed it on legendary norm last night, first time running it. I really liked the quest, but 2 gripes.

1) They need to make the cave trial require you to pull the temple lever in order for the NPC to tell you that trial is completed. While doing the cave trial, I pulled the underwater lever as was required to advance through the trial, but missed the temple lever and there was no indication of it. So I ran around the end temple entrance looking for a lever for 20 minutes thinking I was crazy or blind. I didn't read all the dialogue, so perhaps it told you there that the temple lever was in the cave. Still, it should require that cave lever to be pulled before you can advance to the next trial in my opinion. If it doesn't and you happen to miss the temple lever, you're going to get to the end of the quest and have no idea how to find the lever to get into the temple.

2) The folliage in the forest section constantly gets in the way of the camera. Minor gripe, but it's really annoying. I had to go nearly 1st person in several areas just so I could see. Would like to see them do something about toning it down.

The end fight was really hard for normal, but that's a good thing. The final fight of the pack should be big and difficult - looking forward to trying it on a higher difficulty with a party. I found it's really important to keep the trash mobs down. If you just go for the beholder the trash will nickle and dime you to death.

Overall very good quest, I really enjoyed it. Nice and diverse which was a nice switch up from the several very linear hack n slashers in the pack.

[Algreg]

Come on now. I cannot imagine what went that horribly wrong in the end fight, but this is a completely distorted review. A level 30 character would have access on elite at most. I just did that on a lvl 16 usual cookie cutter barbarian with only slight issues. And I am a mediocre player.

[zehnvhex]

You don't say, one of the most powerful elite classes at heroic levels didn't have trouble. Color me shocked.

I should post about how my character with access to an SLA blind had no issues on R2 as well.

Anyways.

The quest is awful. "Different" is fine Axel but only if "different" is done well and this quest does not do it well.

As others have noted the whole "There's only one way into the temple!" thing and then oh hey look nevermind guess there was a back door. But whatever, Xoriat amirite guys?

-Thematically- I like the concept. I like quests where you split up. I like the -concept- behind the final fight. It was just all done so poorly. It felt really, really rushed. We offered several suggestions on how to fix it but in typical SSG fashion they pushed it out the door with the umbilical cord still attached.

Some suggestions:

1 - DDoor at end of each path that takes you back to village.

2 - Being able to tab-target the mushrooms through walls so that if you miss one in the jungle you're not as boned spending far too long trying to find it.

3 - The caves having a little more visual appeal to them. It's just one endless grey slog for 90% of it.

4 - I -strongly- recommend changing Simon Says puzzles so that if you fail them, you still 'pass' but get a debuff or mobs spawn or something. There are people who can't do these thanks to cognitive disability.

5 - End fight should have been a multi-phase fight through two rooms with a rest/rez shrine between.

6 - There should have been a 'blackout' event as you run to the last temple where your madness consumes you for a bit only to be rescued by one of the drow who tells you that you were followed, the village is holding them off as best they can but you need to get to the temple quick.

7 - The harpies in the jungle path...why?

8 - The hidden ladder things in the cave system are neat to simulate wall climbing. I hope we see more of that. But we need a consistent, better visual that you can do that.

All of that would have made for a much better dungeon experience.

[axel15810]

You don't say, one of the most powerful elite classes at heroic levels didn't have trouble. Color me shocked.

I should post about how my character with access to an SLA blind had no issues on R2 as well.

Anyways.

The quest is awful. "Different" is fine Axel but only if "different" is done well and this quest does not do it well.

As others have noted the whole "There's only one way into the temple!" thing and then oh hey look nevermind guess there was a back door. But whatever, Xoriat amirite guys?

-Thematically- I like the concept. I like quests where you split up. I like the -concept- behind the final fight. It was just all done so poorly. It felt really, really rushed. We offered several suggestions on how to fix it but in typical SSG fashion they pushed it out the door with the umbilical cord still attached.

Some suggestions:

1 - DDoor at end of each path that takes you back to village.

2 - Being able to tab-target the mushrooms through walls so that if you miss one in the jungle you're not as boned spending far too long trying to find it.

3 - The caves having a little more visual appeal to them. It's just one endless grey slog for 90% of it.

4 - I -strongly- recommend changing Simon Says puzzles so that if you fail them, you still 'pass' but get a debuff or mobs spawn or something. There are people who can't do these thanks to cognitive disability.

5 - End fight should have been a multi-phase fight through two rooms with a rest/rez shrine between.

6 - There should have been a 'blackout' event as you run to the last temple where your madness consumes you for a bit only to be rescued by one of the drow who tells you that you were followed, the village is holding them off as best they can but you need to get to the temple quick.

7 - The harpies in the jungle path...why?

8 - The hidden ladder things in the cave system are neat to simulate wall climbing. I hope we see more of that. But we need a consistent, better visual that you can do that.

All of that would have made for a much better dungeon experience.


1 - This thought came to me as well as I was playing it. Would be nice, but the trial paths are pretty short, so not a big deal.
2 - Eh, don't agree. I personally didn't have trouble finding them first time through. It would be pretty cheesy if you could do that.
3 - Would be nice but not essential.
4 - On casual, sure. But on other difficulties, no. These are very easy simon style puzzles. I think even most with disabilities should be alright. Easier than most puzzles in DDO. I would actually prefer them to be a bit more challenging.
5 - Na, don't agree at all. That would just make it easier, I don't see how that is an improvement.
6 - Sounds neat
7 - Yeah, I agree. This was weird. Seemed very out of place.

[brian14]

How exactly do "Simon says" puzzles work? Three button light up in succession; I have no clue what I am supposed to do with them.

[blerkington]

How exactly do "Simon says" puzzles work? Three button light up in succession; I have no clue what I am supposed to do with them.

You repeat back the sequence the puzzle plays. If you have a good ear you can do it by sound, and if you don't (like me) you watch the positions of the lit runes. I give them numbers from 1-9 and remember it that way. There are three, four and five bit sequences, so not too long for most people to handle.

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My main issue with this quest was visibility in the mushroom area.

In general, I think the DDO devs have a huge blind spot for recognising usability issues with their game. There are plenty of quests where visibility is really bad due to overuse of hanging clutter that the camera can't handle, the horrid shadowfell effect, stupidly loud sounds for some effects, a crafting system with an absurd amount of clicking required (better now but still not great) are all examples, and there are many more too.

It's like no-one is asking the question 'What is this new thing like to use repeatedly or over extended periods of time?' Maybe they can't afford to have someone who's actually trained in identifying these problems, but an intelligent person who is thinking about what they are doing can usually prevent the worst of it.

Thanks.

[Whitering]

How exactly do "Simon says" puzzles work? Three button light up in succession; I have no clue what I am supposed to do with them.

You are supposed to hit the same three buttons right after, then there will be 4, then 5.

As advised by the Highlords Gingerspyce, just type in chat, using your num pad buttons, the buttons that light up, if your memory sucks as bad as mine does.

[vryxnr]

I actually use a different mental method for the Simon says puzzle... I use lines/shapes. As they light up, I imagine they are dots being connected by lines to create a shape... I then recreate that line-path/shape. Everyone is different, and this is simply easier FOR ME than numbering them... one path/shape vs 5 numbers (and I know this is not the case for most people, hence the all caps "for me"). But perhaps I'm not the only one who prefers geometric shapes to numbers? *shrugs*

As for the quest itself, I didn't mind it at all. Yes, the end fight is a difficulty spike compared to the rest of the quest, but I'm ok with that. The foliage in the maze is a lot, but didn't make it unplayable for me. Most of it was overhanging and not all the way to the ground, which imo is manageable. It's areas where it's bushes taller than you or foliage than goes all the way from ground to ceiling and from wall to wall and is also thick that bug me (where even if zoomed all the way in you can only see foliage).

For me, the worst parts of this quest are the Mythral Lock not existing, and the barrier that pops up to seal off the end fight is buggy (despawning after fight then respawning after the fight shortly after, often without the portal on the outside to let people in).

[Odysseus2011]

I actually mess up the simon says puzzles quite often, but that’s because the game lags and ends up skipping a light.

[GramercyRiff]

You can tab the shrooms you just have to be facing in their direction. The visibility on larger characters is why I can't stand it. It's much less annoying a dwarf, so I assume it wouldn't be bad on a gnome or halfling.

I'm not defending this quest though. It's not very good. I've come off the ledge of it being one of the worst quests in the game but I still don't like it. It's not Newcomers or Black and Blue so it's got that going for it.


I actually use a different mental method for the Simon says puzzle... I use lines/shapes. As they light up, I imagine they are dots being connected by lines to create a shape... I then recreate that line-path/shape.

I do this exact same thing.

[Enoach]

I like the end fight for the reason that it is actually an anti-"High DPS the boss" mechanic. Control vs speed is the key.

Similar to the Dreaming Dark where the Nightmare horrors spawn at pre-defined Boss Health points. The Chaos traps keep you from "perching" some place.

However, as you point out in your thought, if you clear the spawns when they happen (At least on Epic R1) it appears they spawn in 6 counts (2 eyes and 4 mobs that become eyes when the die). It gets rather rough when you have packs of 3 roaming around each pillar.

[Hobgoblin]

Come on now. I cannot imagine what went that horribly wrong in the end fight, but this is a completely distorted review. A level 30 character would have access on elite at most. I just did that on a lvl 16 usual cookie cutter barbarian with only slight issues. And I am a mediocre player.



The issue was that I kept getting danced with irrisitable dance and I simply tried to brute force it. So I had him down to 5% or so and had all the spawns on me. I so I was dancing while getting nailed by the force damage and dot from boss

I was more irritated by the paths tbh

[Powerhungry]

heroic at level r1 full party- after several cakes we managed to kill the boss and get the relic to complete at which point the barrier drops. We ran down the tunnel to raise and rebuff to deal with the trash- THANKS DEVS - the barrier pops back up with no portal to get in....so no loot. Why would you have the barrier pop back up? Ultra lame fail Devs