Hirelings

[luste]

What I would like to know as a person which uses Hirelings/Mercs when are they gonna update the levels as quests are 33 and a Rogue is 24 level Hire. These can no longer be any use they cant disable traps or find hidden doors and Healers are a joke max 27 cleric and 25 FVS even if the developers was to boost these mercs would be a great help as I spend a lot of TP from store and now they are a waste, so please can you not just up the Quests think of people who love to play solo. I await answers from DEVS to respond or peoples thoughts and please don't say get a group as some players just Zerg or don't play the way I love to play.

[zehnvhex]

Hirelings have been a touchy subject for awhile now in DDO.

I absolutely loved the companion system in SW:TOR personally (or at least the small sampling of it I got up through level ~30 or so at release). I liked how they grew with you, you could equip them, etc...

And I always thought it'd be nice to have a similar system in DDO. Artificers/Druids already kinda have it with their doggo's but I'd love to have seen it taken one step further. Even if it was a paid feature I'd be okay with it. Platinum seal hirelings that level up with you, have equipment slots, etc... You can assign them a personality or whatever.

However.

We face 3 problems.

1 - There are some rather...zealous individuals...that believe hirelings are the reason nobody groups anymore. They will shout down and be vehemently anti-anything that allows for a better solo play experience.

2 - The AI is...touched to say the least. I think it was around u16 or something (there's been a lot of alcohol between then and now) when they tried to fix AI and made it worse. AI has been left in the horrid state it's been in since. I believe Torc or Steel promised to look into it one day, or maybe that was stealth. Dunno, hard to keep track of things they've broken and have promised to one day fix ^_^.

3 - Development time. SSG is pretty obviously stretched thin and they are never short on things they could be working on. Remember the One Thing Thread? (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/479185-The-One-Thing-Results-Thread) Since the 'big patch' that was released after it they've fixed like...2 more things on that list. Fixing hirelings ranks pretty low unfortunately.

[glmfw1]

However.

We face 3 problems.

1 - There are some rather...zealous individuals...that believe hirelings are the reason nobody groups anymore. They will shout down and be vehemently anti-anything that allows for a better solo play experience.

2 - The AI is...touched to say the least. I think it was around u16 or something (there's been a lot of alcohol between then and now) when they tried to fix AI and made it worse. AI has been left in the horrid state it's been in since. I believe Torc or Steel promised to look into it one day, or maybe that was stealth. Dunno, hard to keep track of things they've broken and have promised to one day fix ^_^.

3 - Development time. SSG is pretty obviously stretched thin and they are never short on things they could be working on. Remember the One Thing Thread? (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/479185-The-One-Thing-Results-Thread) Since the 'big patch' that was released after it they've fixed like...2 more things on that list. Fixing hirelings ranks pretty low unfortunately.

Albus and Garret are essentially the same hireling, just at different levels.
Wyoh and Erytheia are also essentially the same hireling at different levels, only Ery has more practical armour, and has TRed into an elf.
It shouldn't be too much of a stretch to update these hirelings with better Stats for top level gameplay.
Same AI, same visual can be used, just swap out armour... fairly low on the development time relative to creating a new hireling entirely, especially as it has already been done once before, but makes things slightly more viable for soloing and small grouping at the highest levels. Because they are essentially the same hirelings as before, there shouldn't be a huge fuss from people who are anti-hireling, as the people who want them are currently hiring the existing ones i.e. no real impact on grouping beyond the existing impact of hirelings.

Rogues are another matter... until epic levels, rogues are AS/DDO point purchases only. I suspect most people who use hirelings don't think of hiring rogues before epic and just live with the loss of Optional XP or loot from locked chests. There's then a period where all these possibilities become viable, then they disappear again. Many people I know didn't realise that Epic rogue hirelings for platinum existed, because they hadn't thought to look, due to an expectation from heroics of not finding them. Adding higher level Rogue hires with better stats, with the attendant publicity that comes with new releases, would probably raise more issues with the anti-hireling crowd, as it could have more of an impact on grouping - people who put up LFMs purely in the hopes of a rogue may stop putting up LFMs, therefore less grouping. It probably wouldn't be difficult for the Devs to give us a lvl 29 or 30 Iessin lookalike in some Ravenloft armour, just with upped stats, but there would likely be a lot more resistance to this than to the Cleric/FvS hires.

[caberonia]

Hirelings have been a touchy subject for awhile now in DDO.

I absolutely loved the companion system in SW:TOR personally (or at least the small sampling of it I got up through level ~30 or so at release). I liked how they grew with you, you could equip them, etc...

And I always thought it'd be nice to have a similar system in DDO. Artificers/Druids already kinda have it with their doggo's but I'd love to have seen it taken one step further. Even if it was a paid feature I'd be okay with it. Platinum seal hirelings that level up with you, have equipment slots, etc... You can assign them a personality or whatever
-Snip-


A permenant hireling system in which your able to level/equip etc your hire would be solid gold and worth a good chunk of TP to me and i'm sure many others. There is some precendent for it considering classes gain followers in DnD. So lore wise it would work and i would even suggesting naming them Followers to prevent any confusion with hires.

To add to your Hireling issues
- They haven't been updated in many years and are sub par due to changes in mechanics such as PRR, MRR etc.

[Plantasiax]

What I would like to know as a person which uses Hirelings/Mercs when are they gonna update the levels ...

I love to know this too.


... as quests are 33 and a Rogue is 24 level Hire. These can no longer be any use they cant disable traps or find hidden doors and Healers are a joke max 27 cleric and 25 FVS even if the developers was to boost these mercs would be a great help as I spend a lot of TP from store and now they are a waste, ...

With my rogue-toon lvl 29, the cleric lvl27 (at the marketplace) and the rest lvl25 or lower, it is possible to play the Ravenloft quests at Casual-lvl, but playing the first castle-quest at normal (= lvl 31), it seems to be a very hard job to survive it, without re-entering.

I miss the hirelings between level 25 and max.

I know some hirelings don't differ except their levels, I know some hirelings have trouble with attacking, staying-put, defending, or even coming immeditately, but when their levels don't rise with the player-levels, high-lvl quests will be unable to play, when playing solo.


... so please can you not just up the Quests think of people who love to play solo. I await answers from DEVS to respond or peoples thoughts and please don't say get a group as some players just Zerg or don't play the way I love to play.

Please please please please please ...

[PermaBanned]

Over in the Arti & Druid update threads the Devs have mentioned (w/usual caveats) that there's potentially some Arti/Druid Pet work in the forseeable future. Obviously wont help the Hireling level issues mentioned, but any Pet AI work would I suspect bleed over to Hireling AI; so maybe some reliefe there.

[EvadEvad]

I would stand by everything the OP said on this. That is my final word and I will not be swayed. Ever.

[Andu_Indorin]

I am presently planning to suspend my subscription until they improve melee performance vis casters. And every time my FvS CC/healer fails to shrine while questing, in frustration I wonder whether I should add the "fix the ****** hirelings" as a precondition to renew my subscription at some future date.

[Algreg]

Build for not having need of hirelings. Seriously, yes, that is somewhat of a "l2p" post, but I don´t really mean it as a stab. Hirelings hold you back. You will realize that soon enough when you try and you will enjoy the game a lot more. I am glad people told me how much I sucked for having to rely on hirelings when I started out. They are not worth the whole AI BS, you will be relieved.

[luste]

Build for not having need of hirelings. Seriously, yes, that is somewhat of a "l2p" post, but I don´t really mean it as a stab. Hirelings hold you back. You will realize that soon enough when you try and you will enjoy the game a lot more. I am glad people told me how much I sucked for having to rely on hirelings when I started out. They are not worth the whole AI BS, you will be relieved.

Well I had to reply to this my fighter is a very strong Build 112 ac and prr and mrr over 100 but does not have the skills to disable traps or find hidden doors. What I am saying I wasted tp getting the highest rogue level 24 and they cant find ziltch, to heal self I use cacoon and Silver Heal potions, my beef is I like to play alone and I can handle hard quests level 32 but I don't like to waste good tp on a Hire that is not up for the level quest. I am only a first lifer and never gonna TR unlike people I just don't want to go on the long road to get to 30 again I play for fun.

[Qhualor]

Build for not having need of hirelings. Seriously, yes, that is somewhat of a "l2p" post, but I don´t really mean it as a stab. Hirelings hold you back. You will realize that soon enough when you try and you will enjoy the game a lot more. I am glad people told me how much I sucked for having to rely on hirelings when I started out. They are not worth the whole AI BS, you will be relieved.

I don't use hires like some kind of crutch. I use them for levers, trap xp and so I don't waste so many heal pots in quests. I use hires all the time and when they die in quests I don't suddenly panic thinking I'm not going to make it through the fight. instead I just pick up their soulstone and the next shrine I come across I raise them. I wont even waste a res scroll on them.

I agree with the OP. we do need some higher level hires.

[Dalris_Thane]

A permenant hireling system in which your able to level/equip etc your hire would be solid gold and worth a good chunk of TP to me and i'm sure many others. There is some precendent for it considering classes gain followers in DnD. So lore wise it would work and i would even suggesting naming them Followers to prevent any confusion with hires.

I would pay money for permanent Followers like you describe. Not DDO points. Direct money.

Oh, and, speaking personally, content that needs groups of RL people... like, say, raids... is content that I cross off. I'll never do them.

I only joined DDO as a VIP because I heard that poor players like me could do (most of) the content on Casual with my character and hirelings.

I bought some expansions purely for Permanent Hirelings, and I'm just waiting and hoping that the Ultimate Ravenloft Bundle gets a 75% off this/next Christmas like past expansions just for those 2 permanent hirelings.

[AbyssalMage]

Hirelings have been a touchy subject for awhile now in DDO.
You could say that again :)


I absolutely loved the companion system in SW:TOR personally (or at least the small sampling of it I got up through level ~30 or so at release). I liked how they grew with you, you could equip them, etc...

And I always thought it'd be nice to have a similar system in DDO. Artificers/Druids already kinda have it with their doggo's but I'd love to have seen it taken one step further. Even if it was a paid feature I'd be okay with it. Platinum seal hirelings that level up with you, have equipment slots, etc... You can assign them a personality or whatever.
I've actually wondered why they haven't implemented such a system in DDO (even though I come from a different MMO). The programming is already there. They are about to do some work on the Artificer Pet and Wolf Companion, and were pretty successful with the Wizard Skeleton Enhancement line.

I do like that you call it "Platinum" line.


However.

We face 3 problems.
Man, just had to include the reasons why we can't have one :( (:))


1 - There are some rather...zealous individuals...that believe hirelings are the reason nobody groups anymore. They will shout down and be vehemently anti-anything that allows for a better solo play experience.
Haha, "Zealous."


2 - The AI is...touched to say the least. I think it was around u16 or something (there's been a lot of alcohol between then and now) when they tried to fix AI and made it worse. AI has been left in the horrid state it's been in since. I believe Torc or Steel promised to look into it one day, or maybe that was stealth. Dunno, hard to keep track of things they've broken and have promised to one day fix ^_^.

3 - Development time. SSG is pretty obviously stretched thin and they are never short on things they could be working on. Remember the One Thing Thread? (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/479185-The-One-Thing-Results-Thread) Since the 'big patch' that was released after it they've fixed like...2 more things on that list. Fixing hirelings ranks pretty low unfortunately.
I think it could work if they actually placed it in the Marketplace (so no using TP points). This would provide them with the funding to implement and produce material that a section of the community wants. If they do a good job, they will have lots of sales. They do a poor job, and it will languish in obscurity. Each "Platinum" hireling would be individually sold to boost revenue. The safest would be to produce a "Tank" and "Healer" for purchase. Gauge the community reaction, "Did we do a good enough job?" and then do future releases based on that.

In the end I could see them doing many great things with such a system. They could make it interesting (to increase sells, of course :) /wink) by using non-humanoid NPC's. We already have a Scarecrow, Lioness, and Puma "Tanks". Memphit, Abishi, Medusa "Sorcerers", anyone? Monkey (using Madmen model), Crow/Parrot, Werewolf "Tricksters"? There are just so many possibilities. Which is a DDO hallmark.

Finally, because they would be "better" than a standard Hireling (because they would (a) level with you, (b) enhancement customization, like Wolf and Dog-dog, and (c) gear slots available) there would need to be some other limiter (other than using real $$$ in the Marketplace) and I would argue a platinum upkeep in-game (i.e. something to soak up PP). Currently contracts operate every hour/use. Because these are permanent, have them have a reoccurring charge every 15 minutes, on summon. If you can't pay the "Upkeep" they simply return to the tavern, forest, cave, ect... until you have the funds to pay them again.

(Can you tell, I am not one of those "Zealots?" :)

[CaptainPurge]

Have you considered data-driven behavior change to solve the problem?

[glmfw1]

Build for not having need of hirelings. Seriously, yes, that is somewhat of a "l2p" post, but I don´t really mean it as a stab. Hirelings hold you back. You will realize that soon enough when you try and you will enjoy the game a lot more. I am glad people told me how much I sucked for having to rely on hirelings when I started out. They are not worth the whole AI BS, you will be relieved.

Running solo+hire doesn't mean you are incapable of being a meaningful part of a group when you don't have a hire. Hirelings only hold you back if you depend on them throughout the whole quest.
If you want Death Ward, Restoration and Resurrection capabilities, you can summon a hireling, get them to cast on you, then park them by the door, calling them if needed.
If you can chug potions, but go through a lot, a hire can be a cheaper option, so park them and call them to you when needed for the tough fights.
If you aren't a rogue or arti, but want to get the optionals behind locked doors or want to make corridors safe (sometimes you need to backtrack to get to a shrine), you can park the hire, then call it when needed.
If you are soloing, due to timing issues or real-world distractions (sometimes you want to complete yourself, so you get enjoyment out of it, rather than entering and piking, because everyone else finished while you were on the phone), the hireling(s) can allow you to pull levers, stand on multiple spots etc, making unfinishable quests to be completed - you can call them when needed, then park them in safety for the rest of the time.

In all these scenarios, you want the hirelings to be competent at their function and not get accidentally killed due to having an AC/PRR/MRR far too low for survivability. The player is the one doing the bulk of the work, and most solo+hire-ists are built for not needing hirelings... except in the scenarios where someone else or someone specialised in something that's not part of the player's build is required.

[Niminae]

What I would like to know as a person which uses Hirelings/Mercs when are they gonna update the levels as quests are 33 and a Rogue is 24 level Hire. These can no longer be any use they cant disable traps or find hidden doors and Healers are a joke max 27 cleric and 25 FVS even if the developers was to boost these mercs would be a great help as I spend a lot of TP from store and now they are a waste, so please can you not just up the Quests think of people who love to play solo. I await answers from DEVS to respond or peoples thoughts and please don't say get a group as some players just Zerg or don't play the way I love to play.

Hirelings are useful for a few situations. Healers are probably the most popular use for them. But they can be used for trapping if you buy a gold seal hire. I'm not completely sure on this as I haven't done this in years, but I think that you can spend a few store points and pick up a trapper. I'd opine that a trapper hireling is less important than a healing hire, since a trapper only gets you some bonus XP and a healer hire can keep you alive. And the healing hires don't cost store points.

Healer hires can also apply Deathward and other handy buffs.

The 3rd level Cleric that you get with the $10 Starter Pack is very handy. She can restore mana as well as HP, and you can summon her anywhere in a quest since she is a gold seal hire.

Even if you don't care to use hirelings as an assistant for your questing they can be very helpful. If you summon and park a hireling at the start of a quest it can be used as an emergency button if things go pear shaped. You can call the hire to you for a resurrection and that might save an otherwise failed run.



I would pay money for permanent Followers like you describe. Not DDO points. Direct money.

DDO Points are direct money. Yeah you can earn Store Points by running content... But perhaps you're referring to things like the first two expansions which are only able to be bought with cash.



The programming is already there. They are about to do some work on the Artificer Pet and Wolf Companion, and were pretty successful with the Wizard Skeleton Enhancement line.

There are no planned changes for the Artificer Pet and Wolf Companion. These are only things the devs have said that they would like to do, but then they would like to do a lot of things. If there is no release date for some mechanic it isn't worth planning for. The change to Arti and Druid pets that eliminates the HP and mana penalties when they die is a good and very needed change.

[Spadedragon]

I find epic hirelings to be extremely sub par.It's not uncommon to see epic hirelings one shotted.Epics hirelings need to be increased 2 to 3 times stronger to keep up with current meta.The lack of higher level skilled hirelings makes it harder for new and solo players.The worst part is that devs don't want to improve hirelings because they suck and hirelings will continue to suck because devs don't want to work on them-catch 22.

[luste]

[QUOTE=Niminae;6083765]Hirelings are useful for a few situations. Healers are probably the most popular use for them. But they can be used for trapping if you buy a gold seal hire. I'm not completely sure on this as I haven't done this in years, but I think that you can spend a few store points and pick up a trapper. I'd opine that a trapper hireling is less important than a healing hire, since a trapper only gets you some bonus XP and a healer hire can keep you alive. And the healing hires don't cost store points.

Healer hires can also apply Deathward and other handy buffs.

The 3rd level Cleric that you get with the $10 Starter Pack is very handy. She can restore mana as well as HP, and you can summon her anywhere in a quest since she is a gold seal hire.

Even if you don't care to use hirelings as an assistant for your questing they can be very helpful. If you summon and park a hireling at the start of a quest it can be used as an emergency button if things go pear shaped. You can call the hire to you for a resurrection and that might save an otherwise failed run.


If you had read my previous posts your see Gold Seal Rogue top level is 24 and not able to remove a trap or find a hidden doors , all im asking is to up the potential for them to do this nothing worse than running back to a shrine or need to back track by getting killed or damaged by a trap. I do have Jibbers to rezz my self for 30 secs but this is not always a option. As for cleric they do need a help up on with standing to stay alive due to the change of targetting 1 mob and find nearly half the dungeon comes with them unlike few years ago ranger or arti could pick 1 off at a time i did think they was gonna put this back to the way it was but alas this will never be.

[Saekee]

look what you provoked! (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/495251-Well-at-last-you-did-it-Hirelings-went-on-strike)

[caberonia]

I would pay money for permanent Followers like you describe. Not DDO points. Direct money.



Money, TP.. whatever. Store or market it would be on my must have list as long as they didn't get stupid greedy like they did with the top tier RL package.. not paying a crazy amount for it but definately would buy it if it was reasonable. actually if THAT would have been included in the top tier RL package i coulda convinced myself to buy it. But I digress.

[Chacka_DDO]

I also wish hirelings would be way more useful than they are currently.
I see that it would be a lot of work to improve the AI but it would be already helpful if you could make the hirelings much more durable.
If you can not make them smarter you could make them stronger so they don't die as often because of there stupidity.

Even better would be of course an overhaul of the hireling system.
My preferred scenario would be if it would be possible to use one or even several of your own characters as your hirelings/henchman.
In this scenario, they would use their full equipment and maybe you could customize the ability they would use.
I see it is unlikely that this ever happens but maybe it is possible to have hireling similar to the druid/pale master/artificer pets with the possibility to equip them and maybe also level them.
To level your henchman you could share the experience gain from your main character or maybe even transfer your experience points to them.

In any case, I see hirelings as an enrichment for DDO and I don't understand why players fear that they will be replaced by hirelings if they are useful.
Everyone who fears this should also consider that hireling give them the option too, to form a working group.
The question is of course how to encourage players to group with real players even if we have useful and strong hirelings/henchman.
But way too often this is not really a question because of the small DDO player base.

[Saekee]

I think the idea of a ‘henchman’ or ‘henchperson’ that grows with you would be cool, like the arti dog—you would gear them too & do enhancements

[Dalris_Thane]

DDO Points are direct money. Yeah you can earn Store Points by running content... But perhaps you're referring to things like the first two expansions which are only able to be bought with cash.

Sorry. That's what I meant. Something like this:

https://store.standingstonegames.com/store/ssg/en_US/pd/ThemeID.4823088000/productID.274988800/categoryID.60256800/parentCategoryID.58516100

where you get a permanent L3 Cleric (good for TRs), but, to my knowledge, the package can't be bought with Store Points. It's money only.

I could be wrong.

[Niminae]

Sorry. That's what I meant. Something like this:

https://store.standingstonegames.com/store/ssg/en_US/pd/ThemeID.4823088000/productID.274988800/categoryID.60256800/parentCategoryID.58516100

where you get a permanent L3 Cleric (good for TRs), but, to my knowledge, the package can't be bought with Store Points. It's money only.

I could be wrong.

You're not wrong. And as I said:


The 3rd level Cleric that you get with the $10 Starter Pack is very handy. She can restore mana as well as HP, and you can summon her anywhere in a quest since she is a gold seal hire.

They once put the Starter Pack on a 75% sale, and that's when I bought it for $2.50. But after using the hireling I would have gladly paid the full $10 for the Starter Pack to have been using it much earlier. It's that good, and $10 is $10.

[SpartanKiller13]

Rogues are another matter... until epic levels, rogues are AS/DDO point purchases only... Many people I know didn't realise that Epic rogue hirelings for platinum existed, because they hadn't thought to look, due to an expectation from heroics of not finding them.

Me! What I learned from this thread is that I can get free XP on dailies whenever there isn't a Rogue joining my LFM. Because I'm pretty sure a level 24 hireling can trap EN Spies/Von3 etc, and easy XP is easy.

Otherwise, I use Hirelings as like a recharge point - leave them out of combat, and bring them in afterwards to fill HP bars/remove debuffs/rez/cast buffs and even fill bluebars if you take the right hire and use spells a lot. I don't need a ML30 hire for that, but I'm sure it would be better than a ML20 one if only for a larger bluebar.

[glmfw1]

Me! What I learned from this thread is that I can get free XP on dailies whenever there isn't a Rogue joining my LFM. Because I'm pretty sure a level 24 hireling can trap EN Spies/Von3 etc, and easy XP is easy.

Iessin can do EH on Spies and VON3. He may even be able to manage EE (Some times he can't find the traps but still has a good shot at disabling, if you know where they are to point him).
If you are running Haunted Halls, he can't manage EE at all, but can disable on EH (can't remember if it's 100% of the time or if he misses fails on some, but still worth taking him for XP, if you have time to clear the pressure plates).

[SpartanKiller13]

Iessin can do EH on Spies and VON3. He may even be able to manage EE (Some times he can't find the traps but still has a good shot at disabling, if you know where they are to point him).
If you are running Haunted Halls, he can't manage EE at all, but can disable on EH (can't remember if it's 100% of the time or if he misses fails on some, but still worth taking him for XP, if you have time to clear the pressure plates).

Sweet! Low-hanging fruit :D I guess I'll need to figure out the Spies traps.

I don't really do HHalls, but I wonder about EH on 2TT? There's only like two traps, but 10% XP is 10% XP.

[luste]

Sweet! Low-hanging fruit :D I guess I'll need to figure out the Spies traps.

I don't really do HHalls, but I wonder about EH on 2TT? There's only like two traps, but 10% XP is 10% XP.

Have you tried any of the Quests in the new pack level 31 to 33 go buy a Gold seal Rogue and your see what I mean I am a fighter and don't have rogue skills and yes leave them at the entrance parked until you need and call and a waste of TP not getting your moneys worth and you cant get money back like a product in real life is faulty by returning it to the store ie (faulty Car ) under consumers rights.

[SpartanKiller13]

Have you tried any of the Quests in the new pack level 31 to 33 go buy a Gold seal Rogue and your see what I mean I am a fighter and don't have rogue skills and yes leave them at the entrance parked until you need and call and a waste of TP not getting your moneys worth and you cant get money back like a product in real life is faulty by returning it to the store ie (faulty Car ) under consumers rights.

Did you know you can buy the epic rogue hirelings for plat? I have exactly zero interest in buying a Gold Seal hireling, but plat appeals to me.

I wonder why a level 24 Rogue has issues in a level 31/33 quest? A Legendary quest, since they're past epic? That's like grabbing a level 14 Rogue hireling and wondering why they don't work in a level 23 quest.

While I think they should consider higher level hirelings, if they don't I'm fine with that. By the time you hit a level 31 quest you should have an idea about traps and methods around them... Especially given how level friendly XP is in epics (no huge overlevel penalties) it's not like heroics where it's much harder to hit 20 if you avoid a few levels worth of quests.

If you want to compare to real life, you're renting (not buying) a car that's too small to carry your stuff, and then complaining that you don't get a refund for your rental despite 1) it's a rental, you pay up front for a period of time and 2) you didn't consider that an improper tool might not meet your needs. Would you have complained if a level 5 gold seal hireling couldn't trap in that level 31/33 quest? No, because that's ridiculous to expect that out of a level 5 hireling. Same thing.

"Consumer rights and consumer protection law provides a way for individuals to fight back against abusive business practices. These laws are designed to hold sellers of goods and services accountable when they seek to profit by taking advantage of a consumer’s lack of information or bargaining power. Some conduct addressed by consumer rights laws is simply unfair, while other conduct can be described as outright fraud." (https://www.hg.org/consume.html)

What part of level 24 did you miss? The part where it has a number? The part where you should probably have a level-appropriate hireling for a given level? Especially when it's a skill check that scales by level? Iessin, a level 24 rogue hireling. (http://ddowiki.com/page/Iessin)

Bargaining power? This isn't like clean water or something, this is hirelings in a computer game.

Asking a level 24 hireling to trap a level 31/33 quest is the unfair part about this, not the spot where you chose to rent said hireling. Nothing fraudulent about a hireling whose level is written next to their name.

-----

Final point, the quote from me that you're responding to? I'm happy because I learned that the exact hireling you're complaining about is 1) available for plat and 2) capable of trapping for LEVEL-APPROPRIATE quests like Spies or VoN3 which means easy XP. Also, I was replying to glmfw1's comment that Iessin can even do EH and sometimes EE, which is far more than I was expecting from a hireling. Player characters are supposed to be better than hirelings, after all. If they could trap EE for everything, Rogue/Artificers being able to trap would have a lot less value.

[Algreg]

Running solo+hire doesn't mean you are incapable of being a meaningful part of a group when you don't have a hire. Hirelings only hold you back if you depend on them throughout the whole quest.
If you want Death Ward, Restoration and Resurrection capabilities, you can summon a hireling, get them to cast on you, then park them by the door, calling them if needed.
If you can chug potions, but go through a lot, a hire can be a cheaper option, so park them and call them to you when needed for the tough fights.
If you aren't a rogue or arti, but want to get the optionals behind locked doors or want to make corridors safe (sometimes you need to backtrack to get to a shrine), you can park the hire, then call it when needed.
If you are soloing, due to timing issues or real-world distractions (sometimes you want to complete yourself, so you get enjoyment out of it, rather than entering and piking, because everyone else finished while you were on the phone), the hireling(s) can allow you to pull levers, stand on multiple spots etc, making unfinishable quests to be completed - you can call them when needed, then park them in safety for the rest of the time.

In all these scenarios, you want the hirelings to be competent at their function and not get accidentally killed due to having an AC/PRR/MRR far too low for survivability. The player is the one doing the bulk of the work, and most solo+hire-ists are built for not needing hirelings... except in the scenarios where someone else or someone specialised in something that's not part of the player's build is required.

Of cause, everyone knows that. That is hardly what people mean when running with a hireling. I disagree on the heals though, if you need a hireling to heal you in a reasonably fast way between encounters, then you also lack that ability during encounters and in groups that have you dismiss your beloved pocket healer (side note: what happened to asking party leader if it´s ok to summon hirelings?), hence a bad build/player (not talking about non-divines and such in early levels naturally).

As for the rogues, guess that is a design decision. You either want to invalidate trapping skills in player characters to some degree or not. SSG has always treated rogue hirelings half-heartedly, probably they themselves are not so sure about their approach. Works fine for me either way.

[archest]

How about using one of your alts as a hire? access to set up the tool bar and such..........gl

[luste]

Final point, the quote from me that you're responding to? I'm happy because I learned that the exact hireling you're complaining about is 1) available for plat and 2) capable of trapping for LEVEL-APPROPRIATE quests like Spies or VoN3 which means easy XP. Also, I was replying to glmfw1's comment that Iessin can even do EH and sometimes EE, which is far more than I was expecting from a hireling. Player characters are supposed to be better than hirelings, after all. If they could trap EE for everything, Rogue/Artificers being able to trap would have a lot less value.

Reply to spartankiller

OK I know what your saying but I am trying to make a point, I am not talking about Von 3 or spies at my level I can just run pass the traps ,but in mist pack a lot of chests and short cuts are via a secret door also the plus side is a Gold Hire you can call at will and dismiss and recall if the 5 min timer is up,

Have you tried to solo on hard epic any of the mist quests if so how did you find the doors and traps try Amber Temple and your see what I mean, this is not a dig at you what I am asking for the capability of this Hireling to do a job as I said in my original post I love to solo and take my time and have fun as there is no higher level Mercs I find frustrating and a waste of tp also healers I been told cant cope with the level quests even the 27 cleric and Garrett 25 just stands there don't heal or dies so fast all I am requesting for developers to up the anti of the existing ones we have.

[Bjond]

I absolutely loved the companion system in SW:TOR personally (or at least the small sampling of it I got up through level ~30 or so at release). I liked how they grew with you, you could equip them, etc...

SWTOR "hire" system was pure genius. You could have them out all the time (even in groups) and they actually functioned well enough to be useful without displacing real players. The true genius, though, was skin sales. Instead of the classic one skin per character, SWTOR needed something like 8 skins per character: player and each and every hire (and they were all unique to each class).

Combine that with a nice account-wide unlock system for the skins (once unlocked, can take out as many copies as you like for free) and they've got a fantastic system for generating nice piles of fluffy cash without any need to ever try and monetize power, progress, or necessities. Didn't even need to make 100% nice skins. As long as one item in a skin set was unique, you'd still want the rest of an ugly set just to use the nice piece.

I honestly have no idea if they did that bit of interlocking design of gameplay with business deliberately or just lucked into it, but it sure worked.

Back on the subject of DDO hires, they're a nice idea that needs serious work to be useful -- especially as the population dwindles and players are forced to either solo or leave.

[Anuulified]

FYI. The last big update hirelings thread resulted in breaking the VERY few working hirelings left at the time and it never being reverted. Good luck.

[mutantspacegoat]

Hirelings are not only useless, they're actually a liability. This is the single biggest fun-killer in the game. Hirelings emphatically should not:
1. teleport in on top of you while you're jumping
2. refuse to stand their ground when ordered to do so
3. stand in lava, acid streams, etc.
4. stand directly in front of or behind you, preventing you from targeting things
5. run off and attack mobs who haven't noticed you yet, then turn around and lead them straight back to you
6. refuse to heal you or themselves spontaneously

I've harbored a suspicion that the devs believed they were "encouraging" grouping by making hirelings deliberately frustrating but honestly, just removing them from the game would be more humane. The cooldowns on potions and scrolls make them totally inadequate for self-healing in solo play, and only playing classes that can self-heal is too limiting to be fun. So if you can't make them useful, please just ditch them and those of us who prefer solo play can take our business elsewhere. Otherwise, please prioritize fixing this.

As an aside, I've often seen comments on these forums about people who use hirelings "not being able to contribute" meaningfully in a group. The obvious implication being that if you're not a "good" player with as much "game knowledge" as they have, your opinions don't matter; that a new player's responsibility is to "catch up" or be dismissed as a "whiner" who's "unable" to compete. I'm gonna take a wild stab here and propose that this attitude is the main reason for the much-lamented dearth of LFGs of late. Nobody wants to play with someone who looks down on them. Competitive, ego-driven players are the prime suspect for what killed grouping imo. I suppose that catering to such folks is ultimately more lucrative than sustainability. More's the pity.

[archest]

Permanent hirelings are limited to Levels.
I have a BTC level 8 rogue that I dont use because its on my crafter (1st toon created)
when I did use it it was limited once the level was past.

I really like the idea of being able to level them up as the artificer pet can be.
not sure since the new update how that works for the pet since its different now.
all the auto buffs and abilities and such.

I use them as a portable shrine for sp myself when I solo .
started using fighters and stuff for my cleric but still the need for a portable shrine hired for div vitality while solo helps me.

[krimsonrane]

A permenant hireling system in which your able to level/equip etc your hire would be solid gold and worth a good chunk of TP to me and i'm sure many others. There is some precendent for it considering classes gain followers in DnD. So lore wise it would work and i would even suggesting naming them Followers to prevent any confusion with hires.

To add to your Hireling issues
- They haven't been updated in many years and are sub par due to changes in mechanics such as PRR, MRR etc.

I'd rather just use my alts and rotate them so they all level up alongside my main life after life. It's a dream indeed. I know. But it would be awesome and solve a lot of the problems with alts falling behind.