Vistani Knife Builds

[Thrudh]

So, I'd love to play around with the Vistani enhancement tree.

My guy is a Dex-based evasion halfling.

My initial plan was to just go 20 ranger, and try different combinations of Tempest, Vistani, and Deepwood Sniper. This way if trying to use only daggers and throwing daggers really stinks, I can always just go with standard ranger stuff.

Any thoughts on Vistani? Possible good multi-class options?

Would a fighter/ranger blend be better? Maybe 12/6/2 fighter/ranger/rogue?

[ShifterThePirate]

I'm on leveling a fun build atm with 14/6 Cleric/Ranger
Ranger for Tempest and free feats
Cleric for War Domain with Holy Sword and Blood of Vol Religion that gives some nice dagger bonuses.

[FuzzyDuck81]

I went with a shadar-kai 13rogue/5fighter/2cleric...bit unusual but is pretty solid. I wanted a divine class so i could have access to empower healing & quicken for cocoon plus some other destiny stuff so 2 cleric with knowledge domain for +2 to all skills was a good option. I guess a 3rd cleric level for a couple of potentially useful level 2 spells instead of the 5th fighter level could have been a good idea too, or maybe 14th level of rogue but the build is what it is :)

feats, mainly in the order i'm reading them in character screen:
epic spellpower: positive, scion of the ethereal plane, dire charge, 2wf, i2wf, g2wf perfect 2wf, blinding speed, improved sneak attack, overwhelming critical, watchful eye, dodge, empower healing spell, IC: piercing, improved evasion, improved feint, opportunist, precision, quicken spell, sap

enhancements:
- racial cores plus both guile - 11AP (had 1 racial from the free tome)
- vistani 42AP, majority of the stuff tho didn't bother with ranged variants of stuff & didn't take vendetta, too short duration to be practical with the other action boosts etc. IMO would be much better if that was just a 1min duration every 5mins or something, would be a great boss-killer then.
- assassin 13AP; 1st 3 cores plus shiv, stealthy & 2 tiers in sneak attack training
- stalwart defender 9AP; durable defense, stalwart defensive mastery, 1st 2 cores & 1 in item defence
- thief-acrobat 6AP; sly flourish & fast movement

It has surprisingly decent prr & mrr (117/72 on mine running in divine crusader & i'm hardly super-optimised with great gear) as well as pretty solid 23% dodge, a few decent immunities & mobility and using improved feint, shiv, bluff & improved deception item can have a fairly reliable 50% or more uptime on sneak attack damage being applied even when soloing plus dire charge for helpless damage boost too, so it shreds things rather nicely.

[Thrudh]

What daggers do you guys use?

[PsychoBlonde]

So, I'd love to play around with the Vistani enhancement tree.

My guy is a Dex-based evasion halfling.

My initial plan was to just go 20 ranger, and try different combinations of Tempest, Vistani, and Deepwood Sniper. This way if trying to use only daggers and throwing daggers really stinks, I can always just go with standard ranger stuff.

Any thoughts on Vistani? Possible good multi-class options?

Would a fighter/ranger blend be better? Maybe 12/6/2 fighter/ranger/rogue?

Try out a Blood of Vol Favored Soul. It's quite effective.

I found a charisma-based 16 FVS/4 paladin to be quite good.

[Saekee]

I dislike Tier 5 vistani stuff. It is all for brief durations and just not enjoyable to micromanage. I am sure the numbers are decent but I have a lot to keep track of when playing.

I have a 3 monk/16 rogue/1 fighter assassin but she is level 15 now and still using vorpal handwraps--it takes 12 AP to be centered with daggers and that is a lot of AP after Assassin, henshin monk etc. The monk gets fists of light, dex hit and damage with wraps, faster sneaking, 5 movement speed and two free feats. Lots of fun for a fast sneaking bruiser.

[Thrudh]

I dislike Tier 5 vistani stuff. It is all for brief durations and just not enjoyable to micromanage. I am sure the numbers are decent but I have a lot to keep track of when playing.

That's a good point...

However, 3 of them have a 60 second cool-down. One could set up some macros to activate all 3 with one push of a button...

That's some pretty sweet goodness to hit as you enter a fight.

100 doubleshot for 15 seconds starting with a 5(W) attack
+1 crit range and +1 crit multiplier for 15 seconds
20% Dodge/Max Dodge and 30 PRR and 30 MMR for 20 seconds

That's a ton of burst power right there.

[unbongwah]

We've had a number of threads for Vistani builds, though I still say rogue 18-19 / monk 1-2 is the obvious choice if you just want pure melee DPS.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/490639-Assasin-Vistani-Knife-Fighter
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/490650-Vistani-FvS
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/490693-Blood-of-Vol-Vistani
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/492815-Vistanni-EDK-viable

[Thrudh]

We've had a number of threads for Vistani builds, though I still say rogue 18-19 / monk 1-2 is the obvious choice if you just want pure melee DPS.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/490639-Assasin-Vistani-Knife-Fighter
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/490650-Vistani-FvS
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/490693-Blood-of-Vol-Vistani
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/492815-Vistanni-EDK-viable

Thanks, interesting ideas there...

18 levels of rogue for Assassin (Lethality) and Tier 5 Vistani (Vendetta+Capstone) sounds really good. Incredible burst DPS. But man, it's expensive in AP costs (31 in Assassin and 41 in Vistani)

That only leaves 8 AP left, and it looks like neither Assassin or Vistani allows one to use Dex for damage with Throwing daggers. Halfling Skillful Thrower costs 12 AP to get, so I'd have to get 4 racial APs (right now I have 0).

Plus, if I was going 18 levels of rogue, I'd really want to spend 3 AP on Fast Movement in Thief Acrobat.

And there's the problem of limited feats for ranged combat, so basically, a rogue Vistani is melee only.

So I'm back to thinking ranger, with DWS (Improved Weapon Finesse) providing Dex to damage with daggers and throwing daggers. Plus ranger has a ton of feats, plus self-healing.

Still tight on AP, if I want 31 in Tempest for the level 18 core ability.

Or maybe I take advantage of the fact that I want to go all in on Vistani, and do some deeper splashes.

Maybe only 6 levels of ranger.

How about 12/6/2 fighter/ranger/rogue?
41 AP in Vistani
11 AP in DWS (to get Improved Weapon Finesse and Called Shot)
21 AP in Kensai (to get Power Surge)
7 AP in Harper for Know the Angles (1 minute version)

Or maybe 14/6 rogue/ranger

Keep a ton of sneak attack, and most of the Assassin stuff, but give up on Lethality (18th level core). Frees up AP for some ranger stuff (included Dex to damage with throwing daggers), and the free feats from ranger helps.


Or go 15/5 ranger/rogue to get the extra Favored Enemies (meshes well with Vistani FE), plus Freedom of Movement and Cure Serious Wounds.

Give up Tempest 18th level core, make things a little easier on the AP side. Maybe splash some fighter or FvS too instead of just 5 levels of rogue.

Thoughts?

[SpartanKiller13]

We've had a number of threads for Vistani builds, though I still say rogue 18-19 / monk 1-2 is the obvious choice if you just want pure melee DPS.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/490639-Assasin-Vistani-Knife-Fighter
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/490650-Vistani-FvS
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/490693-Blood-of-Vol-Vistani
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/492815-Vistanni-EDK-viable

Another one if you want a bit more utility/defense - SWF Bard/Rogue/Fighter. (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/490239-Theory-Crafting-Vistani-SWF) Presents a bit of a different direction - SWF vs TWF, and spellcasting + Defender Stance to boot.

Although Unbongwah is basically the authority on building, so generally he's right :p

[Saekee]

That's a good point...

However, 3 of them have a 60 second cool-down. One could set up some macros to activate all 3 with one push of a button...

That's some pretty sweet goodness to hit as you enter a fight.

100 doubleshot for 15 seconds starting with a 5(W) attack
+1 crit range and +1 crit multiplier for 15 seconds
20% Dodge/Max Dodge and 30 PRR and 30 MMR for 20 seconds

That's a ton of burst power right there.
yes--if you have the macro, then I would do it. I do not and am on a MAC too. They would work very well in conjunction with haste boost from the tree.