You are better off buying the packs than having a VIP account.

[krimsonrane]

After a dozen years I let my sub slip and it slapped me in the face that I have absolutely nothing.
I now have the same thing a new player on FTP has. A chance to spend money.

All that cash wasted for years with no benifits worth talking about. I should have been buying packs instead.
If I ever come back I'll remember that.

[Kaboom2112]

10% XP in a game with is pretty much nothing but XP farming is nothing to sneeze at.

[Kylstrem]

After a dozen years I let my sub slip and it slapped me in the face that I have absolutely nothing.
I now have the same thing a new player on FTP has. A chance to spend money.

All that cash wasted for years with no benifits worth talking about. I should have been buying packs instead.
If I ever come back I'll remember that.

Hmmmm... Do you take the same stance when you pay $10 to see a movie, and maybe you see a movie once a month, and then at the end of the year, you don't have any of those movies???

You seem like you don't understand basic principles of how subscription-based services work and maybe you shouldn't be allowed to make your own financial decisions.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Hmmmm... Do you take the same stance when you pay $10 to see a movie, and maybe you see a movie once a month, and then at the end of the year, you don't have any of those movies???

You seem like you don't understand basic principles of how subscription-based services work and maybe you shouldn't be allowed to make your own financial decisions.

You seem like you don't understand that different people can have different values and that purchasing items can have significantly better value than renting for the right person.

[Cantor]

It depends on what you do. What did you do with your 500 points a month for those years and the 1000s of free points from favor? that should easily be enough to buy everything. (but really, I don't hoard my points either, I buy a box or something when I notice I'm over 10k)
Still, you might have more than nothing. Several things came with expansions or had to be bought or unlocked even as VIP. If you preordered MotU you got 6 or 8 packs (carnival, attack on stormreach, sentinels, IQ, etc) Other things too such as artificer, druid, harper, many iconics.

I think they should have an all access VIP option that includes expansions and things that currently need to be unlocked as a vip.

As mentioned 10% xp and a free skip in every saga is nice.

[bracelet]

I subbed for almost a year, then dropped it right before November 2011. With point sales and store sales, I think I ended up owning all classes, most races and all packs for around $200. The only real money I have spent after that is for expansions. But VIP has to buy those as well, so that's a wash. The sales are much stingier now than they used to be, and there is a lot more content to buy. It could cost quite a bit more than $200. But the break-even point is certainly going to be far far less than 10 years.

[unbongwah]

If you canceled your Amazon Prime subscription tomorrow, would you be super-mad that you lost access to all of Amazon Prime's content? Would you be like, "Oh, why did I bother paying for Amazon Prime when I could've been buying the streaming rights for shows instead!"?

Because that's...kinda how subscriptions work, ya know? It just seems like a weird thing to get upset about, like someone didn't explain to you what being a subscriber actually meant.

[Scrapco]

But you have such lovely hair!

[Vish]

Hey, I'm renting the Internet too
10 bucks a month for dnd, 50 bucks a month for Internet
10 is a small price to pay in comparison
And it supports the game
And has benefits
Shared bank anyone?
Access to all content anyone?
Extra xp, ddo points
I don't ever plan on being free to play,
When 10 dollars a month is piddlance
But whatever, to each their own

[Qhualor]

I could have bought the Red Sox players and watched them play in my backyard for free instead of buying tickets to watch the games...

[caberonia]

Yes, depending on your subscription length, Catching sales etc.. the price to Own most if not all content can be less. Really depends on a persons situaiton.. length of playing etc. I took the leap years ago saved up my VIP points.. Cancelled the sub and bought what i didn't have from expansion purchases etc. Haven't looked back since. If/When i want to drop some $$ for points i can but it's not required to keep playing. Usually by the time they release content I have points saved from favor from TRing. That being said I pretty much NEVER buy convenience items, Cakes, ottos boxes etc. If i did i would never have the points to get the newest packs. (actually missing a few but I wait a few months to see if people still run them before i bother.. if they disappear from LFMs almost completely after the next pack drops then i don't bother wasting the TP)

All that being said.. the ablity to take long breaks without paying a sub is the real benefit for me. If i'm paying a sub i feel i HAVE to log on or its money wasted.

As someone pointed out 12 years worth of points should have been enough free TP to buy everything.. what in the world someone spent all those points on when you can't buy packs etc as VIP boggles my mind.

[SpartanKiller13]

I mean for me I bought a whole bunch of packs before going VIP, and I'm super ****ed that I didn't go VIP sooner - I would have saved a bunch of money both short-term and long-term. I've thrown a couple hundred at this game $35 at a time, and going VIP gets me more content, cool perks like 10% XP, and a bunch of points to throw around to buy stuff like Ravenloft (which I just did).

$10/month is less than I spend eating out at anywhere nicer than fast food, so I'm not going to complain about the price.

Besides, if I get tired of DDO for a while I can just drop my subscription and then re-up it if I come back.

[Eelpout]

There are many opinions on the subject. The best I can offer is do what works for you.

I pay the $99 yearly subscription. For me, that is a great value. I get free silver daily die rolls and a weekly gold roll. Opening quests on Elite, the extra XP, and the occasional extra 5% for weekend VIP bonus, 6000 DDO points per year. For $8.25/month, I won't (and haven't) done it differently for 12 years. Everyone has the right to make the choice that best suits there needs.

[Memnir]

I don't need most of the perks of doing so - I pay for VIP mostly because I want to support SSG for making a game I've enjoyed for over ten years. Would I be "better off" if I didn't? Maybe. I feel it's a gesture of appreciation in return for the continued entertainment value I receive, and am happy to do so.


Y'all's mileage may vary.

[archlyte]

I don't need most of the perks of doing so - I pay for VIP mostly because I want to support SSG for making a game I've enjoyed for over ten years. Would I be "better off" if I didn't? Maybe. I feel it's a gesture of appreciation in return for the continued entertainment value I receive, and am happy to do so.


Y'all's mileage may vary.

Yeah I have to agree with this. I feel like if you love a game you should support it. As someone from the age of the 1st gen MMOs to me it seems like there are fewer options each year rather than more because the genre has been subverted by action game marketing instead of being alternatives to TTRPGs. SSG deserves the support for this haven imo.

[mr420247]

There are plenty of ways that ddo premium players can support the game but of course

It requires actual ddo store dev work not big things just more things

1 Let players buy guest passes for quests before owning the quests maybe i'd like to test a pack before i buy it and bring sum friends along

2 LGS ship altars who would not want these

3 Racial hearts for alts and horrible forged lives still throwing that out there

Lots and lots more they could sell in ddo store like elite unlocks for iconics on a server i'd probly def buy that for myself n a friend

[PermaBanned]

After a dozen years I let my sub slip and it slapped me in the face that I have absolutely nothing.
I now have the same thing a new player on FTP has. A chance to spend money.

All that cash wasted for years with no benifits worth talking about. I should have been buying packs instead.
If I ever come back I'll remember that.
Lol, that's the root reason DDO was my first MMO. I could never make myself financially comfortable with the notion of first buying a game, then renting permission to play it. When they came up with the financial choice of buy once, play forever or rent-to-play... the value option was obvious.

[caberonia]

Lol, that's the root reason DDO was my first MMO. I could never make myself financially comfortable with the notion of first buying a game, then renting permission to play it. When they came up with the financial choice of buy once, play forever or rent-to-play... the value option was obvious.

I made that jump a few times.. UO, FFXI were my two sub based MMOs prior to ddo.. the model of eventually owning everything and not having a sub was definitely a plus when i started looking into DDO. By then i had did the math on how much i spent on subscription based games and told myself i would never do another one.

However I did go VIP in DDO for awhile.. but that was part of the master plan of owning everything. Saving my TP i got from VIP and getting to know each pack to know which ones i would want to buy and which to skip.. as well as getting some loot from those i would ultimately not waste TP to buy.

My suggestion to anyone STARTING DDO is to go VIP for awhile to get to the know the game.. and SAVE your TP... because if you decide it's a game you will spend years playing at some point its better to cancel the VIP and use those banked TP to own stuff unless you're one of those people who plays with tons of purchasable items such as cakes etc.. then STAY VIP. That being said.. I salute those who pay VIP purely to support the game. It's guys like you that keep the lights on.. not people like me who buy points on rare occasions.

[Chai]

The owners vs renters debate is a farce. Its all pay per time unit. You either pay each content update or you pay per month VIP (yeah Im aware they give a discount for lump sum payment)

[mikarddo]

I am VIP mostly for convinience. When I want to play I dont want to worry about purchasing packs, races, iconics etc. and the USD100/year is cheap.
But I am happy the option for others to go Premium exists should they prefer that.

[SirValentine]

Hmmmm... Do you take the same stance when you pay $10 to see a movie, and maybe you see a movie once a month, and then at the end of the year, you don't have any of those movies???


I won't speak for the OP, but for me, yes I would take that stance. I'd rather buy Blu-Ray discs I can re-watch whenever I want for no additional charge than watch movies in the theater.


Lol, that's the root reason DDO was my first MMO. I could never make myself financially comfortable with the notion of first buying a game, then renting permission to play it. When they came up with the financial choice of buy once, play forever or rent-to-play... the value option was obvious.

Likewise. I only started playing DDO because 1) it was (moreso then) D&D, and 2) no subscription was required.

[HAL]

After a dozen years I let my sub slip and it slapped me in the face that I have absolutely nothing.
I now have the same thing a new player on FTP has. A chance to spend money.

All that cash wasted for years with no benifits worth talking about. I should have been buying packs instead.
If I ever come back I'll remember that.

While you can definitely just buy the packs, and I did that at the beginning, there are a lot of other perks to VIP besides content.

[Vulkoorex]

VIP perks are meh.

Opening elite is pointless when you're already on your 3rd life on your main. If you're running an alt, chances are if you join a LFM, someone can open elite anyways.

Skipping one quest in a saga is OK but not essential.

Weekly Gold rolls is OK but not earth shattering.

10% xp is meh. Make it 25% and you'll see an increase in subscriptions.



V.

[Chacka_DDO]

If you want to save money the right choice is quite obvious the Premium model on the long run.
And if you want to save even more money you buy the adventure packs etc. if possible when they are on sale.
Subscription is in my opinion foremost financially interesting if you just try DDO and you don't plan to play DDO for years.
If you pay a 12-month subscription it is already at this point the question if you should rather spend the money for DDO Points and rater buy the content you want.

And the thought from the OP is therefore not wrong that he sees that he "owns" nothing after 12 years subscription while he would have everything as premium, plus a good bunch of saved money.
Of course, the subscription includes some extras you don't get as a premium but it is questionable if this is worth the additional money.

And another aspect is of course that the game is already old.
A player who doesn't know DDO yet has the choice to buy a new up to date game for 50$ or DDO.
If he buys a new game he has access to the whole content in this game for this 50$
In contrast, SSG expects such a new player to either pay 99$ per year or buy all content for like 400$
And this doesnt even includes things like additional bank space or character space etc, just only adventure packs, races, and classes.
and this price doesn't include any expansion pack of course.

Therefore for a new player, SSG offers not really a good deal in my opinion for a 12 years old game.
I made already a suggestion to lower this boarding hurdle for new players.
This by making content that is older than 5 years free to play.
The initial idea of a free to play game was good but it is not working if this model is not dynamic.
You can, of course, hope thousands of players joining DDO with these bad requirements but it is unlikely in my opinion.

And this leads at the end to fewer players.

[Kylstrem]

You seem like you don't understand that different people can have different values and that purchasing items can have significantly better value than renting for the right person.

Oh I understand it perfectly. However, it seems the OP is complaining because he didn't research what was valuable to him before signing on for VIP.

VIP is the classic subscription service for an online game. You stop paying for subscription and then you have nothing that the subscription service provided you. There's nothing new here. OP shouldn't be surprised, and if OP is surprised, then it is OP's fault for not researching properly.

I have no sympathy for whiners who are whining about something they did to themselves.

[Kza]

For me its the +xp as vip that is the biggest seller.
But i was vip Before that anyway. Im lazy and want it all.
And i have to say that if i was cancelling my sub i wouldnt Think all was "wasted".

Each month i pay the subscription fee to have fun in a fantasy setting/World that i really like.
Ok, spending Money on my Lovely wife is no1. But those few dollars each month to play and have a good time in ddo... I Think its cheap.

:-)

[Adurna]

If you canceled your Amazon Prime subscription tomorrow, would you be super-mad that you lost access to all of Amazon Prime's content? Would you be like, "Oh, why did I bother paying for Amazon Prime when I could've been buying the streaming rights for shows instead!"?

Because that's...kinda how subscriptions work, ya know? It just seems like a weird thing to get upset about, like someone didn't explain to you what being a subscriber actually meant.

I'm not sure the comparison is accurate at all.

After all, if I cancel my Amazon Prime subscription I wouldn't find Amazon employees coming to my home and taking away everything I bought with it, would I?

[unbongwah]

After all, if I cancel my Amazon Prime subscription I wouldn't find Amazon employees coming to my home and taking away everything I bought with it, would I?
Except you don't lose anything you bought when you cancel VIP. You don't lose access to any expansions you bought. You don't lose access to account options like Epic Destinies you bought. If you bought a bunch of tomes for your toons while you were a VIP, you keep those bonuses too. Etc.

When you cancel VIP, you lose access to those things you were only "renting" in the first place (adventure packs, shared bank, etc.), which is how MMO subs have always worked. It sounds like the OP is suffering from buyer's remorse, insofar as they think buying packs as a Premium player would've been a more cost-effective long-term plan than subscribing for a dozen years. Which is fine, except that's not really SSG's fault. So far as I know, nobody tricked the OP into subscribing for so long. This isn't one of those threads where someone complains, "I signed up for a sub because I thought it included everything only to find out I need to buy the expansions too what is this BS?!"

I'm not trying to troll, I'm just curious if the OP or others get mad when they cancel other fee-for-service plans like Amazon Prime or cable TV or whatever.

[SpartanKiller13]

I won't speak for the OP, but for me, yes I would take that stance. I'd rather buy Blu-Ray discs I can re-watch whenever I want for no additional charge than watch movies in the theater.

I find this interesting. To me the experience of watching a movie in a theater is significantly better than watching it in my room at 2AM. Like it's a lot more visceral, and the sounds is nicer, and you can see 3D if you want which is super cool.

Certainly there's much to be said for owning a movie, but to me the theater experience is pretty awesome.

[Xanthrawl]

Oh I understand it perfectly. However, it seems the OP is complaining because he didn't research what was valuable to him before signing on for VIP.

VIP is the classic subscription service for an online game. You stop paying for subscription and then you have nothing that the subscription service provided you. There's nothing new here. OP shouldn't be surprised, and if OP is surprised, then it is OP's fault for not researching properly.

I have no sympathy for whiners who are whining about something they did to themselves.

While I agree with your thought process, I disagree with how you stated it. I, too, have no sympathy for the OP, or anyone else who knew their were multiple models available and did not do any research to determine which model is best for them individually.

However, name calling is unnecessary. These forums are FULL of posts created by people to vent frustrations, give their input on what would provide a better gaming experience, etc all of which can be classified as "whining." If you truly have the mentality that no one should post unless they are happy and agree with SSG, then perhaps YOU should not post, as I am fairly certain that name calling is still against the TOS, and I think you'll find you are much happier to avoid such distractions.

I went Premium when the model was first introduced, and I have zero regrets. I knew what I was spending on my sub, and it didn't take long to do some math and see where the break even point would be. Of course having played since 2006, I already knew I loved the game and would be here for the long haul, so I had no qualms about dropping some cash on the TP to make my purchases. I bought several of the 11k TP packs that was offered with the old expansions, as it was a great value. I "own" all of the content: adventure packs, classes, races, iconics, shared bank, MM, etc. I bought when things were on sale if I could, but many things I just paid for because I wanted it. I don't mind paying for the game, I just didn't want a subscription. I felt that I HAD to play and get the most out of my money. Now I play when time permits, if I feel like it, typically about 3 times a week, in the evenings after work and maybe a day on the weekend.

I have been VIP periodically over the years as well, typically for one promotion/event or another, most recently the VIP that came with Ravenloft collectors pack. I do enjoy the saga skip, but other than that, I see very little reason to be VIP personally. 10% XP is not a lot in the grand scheme of things, elite unlock is a non-issue unless you solo, and the run speed isn't noticeable IMO. Gold rolls are ok, but I'm a bit disenchanted with Daily Dice anyway. Probably because I only play one character and have already bought all the best skill and ability tomes available. There's not much I would want to get from them.

That being said, I know several folks that have been VIPs for years and haven't even considered going Premium. That works for them, and Premium works for me. To each their own.

[grandeibra]

people can have different values and that purchasing items can have significantly better value than renting for the right person.Exactly. That's why it's great that each person can choose either to rent or to buy. But to first choose rent for a long time and then throw a hissy when you don't own anything at the end of your rental period. THAT is what the poster you responded to commented on. Have no idea why you made it into a "don't understand that different people..." - everyone in this thread of course understands that part.

[Xanthrawl]

I find this interesting. To me the experience of watching a movie in a theater is significantly better than watching it in my room at 2AM. Like it's a lot more visceral, and the sounds is nicer, and you can see 3D if you want which is super cool.

Certainly there's much to be said for owning a movie, but to me the theater experience is pretty awesome.

I downsized my DVD/Blu Ray collection a few years back, as I just never re-watched them. I usually just loaned them to friends or family. I kept my favorites that I actually do re-watch, but the rest had to free up space.

I like to go to the movies occasionally, but I HATE crowds. It's a good experience if it's not too crowded, but I hate when it's so full you can't sit with your friends/family you went with. Or you'd have to get there super early in order to do so. If I do go to the movies, it's never on opening weekend. It's usually right before they stop showing the movie in theaters.

[Adurna]

Except you don't lose anything you bought when you cancel VIP.


Amazon Prime allows you to get stuff faster and without paying shipment costs, but you still get to keep your stuff forever. If you cancel it you still get to use your toaster. If you cancel VIP it's very likely you'll lose access to your toon, until you pay again.

THat's why I feel that comparison doesn't fit at all. It would be best to compare VIP to idk, Netflix? You get to see your shows for as long as you pay for it. When you don't it stops.

[Xanthrawl]

Amazon Prime allows you to get stuff faster and without paying shipment costs, but you still get to keep your stuff forever. If you cancel it you still get to use your toaster. If you cancel VIP it's very likely you'll lose access to your toon, until you pay again.

THat's why I feel that comparison doesn't fit at all. It would be best to compare VIP to idk, Netflix? You get to see your shows for as long as you pay for it. When you don't it stops.

They were referring to Amazon's Streaming services available to Prime members. Similar to Netflix, yes.

[Adurna]

They were referring to Amazon's Streaming services available to Prime members. Similar to Netflix, yes.

Ah then I stand corrected, I thought it was referring only to the shipping bit.

[amylee4000]

After a dozen years I let my sub slip and it slapped me in the face that I have absolutely nothing.
I now have the same thing a new player on FTP has. A chance to spend money.

All that cash wasted for years with no benifits worth talking about. I should have been buying packs instead.
If I ever come back I'll remember that.

Wow, you are in my situation too,.. dont know why but SSG dont accept my card no more,... Dont ask me why?,.. and after 12 years of play and pay religiously every three months now I have nothing at all..
Now like a Premium player I must buy all the things I played during all these years,.. thinking in act?*vate again the VIP status for one year and save the point to buy packs, but I think, dont gonna do it, Everytime I play less, and for the only build i play with the guild or grinding I need a few packs only,...so I think gonna follow the Premium way after all of this years and buy what I want,..
In the first momento when the situation slapped me too in the face looks like I waste all the money but later I was thinking in all the entertaiment give me the game during all of this years and I dont have the impression of waste money,..

[ccd1977]

I know a VIP sub has been nice. Honestly, I purchased a few packs after I started then went full VIP in a month. I wanted access to all content BUT now comes iconic and Ravenloft where I dont get access to this content. So I am in a catch 22. Do I drop mad cash on packs and missout on VIP perks? Go VIP and miss out on packs? or both? If I was a baller I would go both but thats not happening.

I have been VIP for a few years now. Come and gone and come back again and I still go back to VIP because it is what I can afford. SO it looks like I will miss out on Ravenloft for a few more months and not have Vistani perks. Then more content is added and slowly I fall behind. I feel so bad for the F2P people. Trying to get in this game now is a HUGE hurdle.

[Whitering]

VIP on an annual basis is 10 per month, and you get points, let's say they are worth about 4 bucks per month. You also get gold dice, which is a lot of exp, let's say an average of 6k exp per week, plus other boosts and bonuses. Now, whether that's worth it, plus the non annoyance of being able to open reaper/elite first go, I am not sure VIP is not worth 10, yes we don't have the packs, and what sucks is we can't actually buy them when there are sales, but it's not like we get nothing.

[shores11]

After a dozen years I let my sub slip and it slapped me in the face that I have absolutely nothing.
I now have the same thing a new player on FTP has. A chance to spend money.

All that cash wasted for years with no benifits worth talking about. I should have been buying packs instead.
If I ever come back I'll remember that.

I disagree as the value of playing each month for $8.99 is money well spent for entertainment.

[slarden]

It partially depends how much you play. If you play 12 hours per week the vip 10% xp bonus alone is worth 10 sovereign Elxirs during the year. Since 2010 you received almost 50k points with vip which is enough to buy all content, races, classes.

Mark on your calendar to check sales in July as you can get good discounts at that time.

[Singular]

I could have bought the Red Sox players and watched them play in my backyard for free instead of buying tickets to watch the games...

hahaha!!

[krimsonrane]

not sure i should offer any kind of time to some of these ridiculous and even insulting childish comments.

If you're going to be here a while buy the packs. If you ever lose your sub for any reason you lose access to everything and go back to zero packs.
I should have been doing it all that time but I'd never let my sub slip before. When I did, this was my conclusion.

DDO is not "the internet". it's not "A cable company" It's an online MMO with a dozen years under its belt.

[slarden]

not sure i should offer any kind of time to some of these ridiculous and even insulting childish comments.

If you're going to be here a while buy the packs. If you ever lose your sub for any reason you lose access to everything and go back to zero packs.
I should have been doing it all that time but I'd never let my sub slip before. When I did, this was my conclusion.

DDO is not "the internet". it's not "A cable company" It's an online MMO with a dozen years under its belt.

You have the same exact option now you always had which is renew, buy, grind for tp or do something else. You should still have access to all free-to-play quests and the first two expansion packs. If you purchased either the standard or collectors edition of motu you would have received 4 (standard) or 8 (collectors edition) adventure packs with that purchase. Those are good packs too.

If you never ran for favor on other servers you can get an easy 125 tp per server by running to 100 favor on each server. If you have "bank" toons you can easily run those to 100 favor each for coin lord + house k first tier favor giving you extra slots on your bank toons and a little tp. Check all your characters that aren't locked due to race/class and run them to the nearest 100 favor. Use that tp to buy a race or class to unlock any key characters.

Compared to ftp, you have quite a bit more than you realize. Any non-consumable you purchased is something extra you have including character slots.

With your knowledge of the game and existing characters it will be easier and faster to get favor to buy some other key packs, classes, races.

You presumably also have motu + shadowfell and shadowfell quests have heroic versions at the perfect level to compliment ftp quests. My suggestion would be to run 1-20 heroic lifes. Compared to 2010 it's much easier - there were no ftp quests above 15 then. With Shadowfell you have plenty of content to get to 20 as shadowfell has numerous quests from level 16-19. You may not get to 20 without having to repeat, but now you have bonuses for first time reaper, elite, hard and normal plus daily bonuses and quest xp ransack isn't permanent as it used to be. It's so much easier than ftp in 2010. Keep one character at 20+ to run dailys to farm for tokens of the twelve.

Some pack goes on sale just about every month and in July/Nov/Dec you typically find 50-75% discounts on some packs, classes and races. So accumulate tp and lifes now and buy critical things first and then only buy things when they are on sale.

It is not as bad as you think it is - it just looks that way from the perspective of having everything with VIP and now having much less. If you want to switch to non-vip mode it's entirely possible to do it without ever spending another penny, but only if you play and earn TP and are patient enough to develop a plan, stick with it, and acquire new things patiently. Of course if you drop some $ for TP it's much faster and easier, but not necessary.

Since the name of the game is heroic tr for racials + reaper xp it's actually the perfect time to make this switch.

[Kylstrem]

However, name calling is unnecessary. These forums are FULL of posts created by people to vent frustrations, give their input on what would provide a better gaming experience, etc all of which can be classified as "whining." If you truly have the mentality that no one should post unless they are happy and agree with SSG, then perhaps YOU should not post, as I am fairly certain that name calling is still against the TOS, and I think you'll find you are much happier to avoid such distractions.

.

I never said or implied "no one should post unless they are happy". Where did that come from?

OP could have addresses his concern about this with a statement like:
"Hey all, I made a mistake and want to make sure others who feel like I do, do not make this same mistake. Read about the differences between VIP and Premium and make an informed choice so you don't end up with the regret I have now".

Instead, it sounded more like the OP felt he was "owed" something more for being a faithful VIP customer over the years. Maybe I'm misreading that, but that's been a common thread topic over the years on these forums.

If you were VIP, you got what you paid for over the years. If you stop being a VIP then you end up with what you agreed to when you signed up for VIP. Nobody's fault but your own if you did this.

I'm not sure what else someone is except a whiner when they make a post like the OP did. Describing someone for what they are is not "name-calling". It's accurately describing the situation. If the poster had posted his thoughts as I described at the beginning of this post I would have "named-called" him as an "surprisingly honest and forthright".

[Knobull]

... maybe you shouldn't be allowed to make your own financial decisions.

..

handsontable.com/blog/articles/5-successful-business-models-for-web-based-open-source-projects (https://handsontable.com/blog/articles/5-successful-business-models-for-web-based-open-source-projects)


1. The Professional Services Model

This model has the software still completely open-source, and freely available to all customers, but services such as consulting, installation, support (basic and/or priority), and training are only available at a fee. Consulting services usually cover the management and implementation of the software within specific industries. Red Hat is a prime example of this model being used successfully.

That is all. Carry on with... whatever this is.

[Uska]

You buy nothing no matter how you do it

[Xanthrawl]

I never said or implied "no one should post unless they are happy". Where did that come from?

OP could have addresses his concern about this with a statement like:
"Hey all, I made a mistake and want to make sure others who feel like I do, do not make this same mistake. Read about the differences between VIP and Premium and make an informed choice so you don't end up with the regret I have now".

Instead, it sounded more like the OP felt he was "owed" something more for being a faithful VIP customer over the years. Maybe I'm misreading that, but that's been a common thread topic over the years on these forums.

If you were VIP, you got what you paid for over the years. If you stop being a VIP then you end up with what you agreed to when you signed up for VIP. Nobody's fault but your own if you did this.

I'm not sure what else someone is except a whiner when they make a post like the OP did. Describing someone for what they are is not "name-calling". It's accurately describing the situation. If the poster had posted his thoughts as I described at the beginning of this post I would have "named-called" him as an "surprisingly honest and forthright".

That is a slippery slope you're going down. One could then make comments such as, "you're a jerk." And be protected because they are "accurately describing the situation." Again, if you feel it's ok to call people names like whiners, then you are part of the problem. I see no other purpose to your post than to put someone down, and potentially lure someone like myself to defend their position (trolling.)

The sad part is, I agree with your points until you get to the name calling bit.

[PsychoBlonde]

If you canceled your Amazon Prime subscription tomorrow, would you be super-mad that you lost access to all of Amazon Prime's content? Would you be like, "Oh, why did I bother paying for Amazon Prime when I could've been buying the streaming rights for shows instead!"?

Because that's...kinda how subscriptions work, ya know? It just seems like a weird thing to get upset about, like someone didn't explain to you what being a subscriber actually meant.

Indeed. And not everyone's goal in life is to be the biggest cheapass that they can possibly manage to be.

There are a range of options to suit a great many goals and playstyles. Assuming that people are stupid because of their choice is simply hateful.

[Chai]

not sure i should offer any kind of time to some of these ridiculous and even insulting childish comments.

If you're going to be here a while buy the packs. If you ever lose your sub for any reason you lose access to everything and go back to zero packs.
I should have been doing it all that time but I'd never let my sub slip before. When I did, this was my conclusion.

DDO is not "the internet". it's not "A cable company" It's an online MMO with a dozen years under its belt.

There is far more than this to consider.

1. The inherent risk that the game will be there for long enough to justify dropping a lump sum. You can only (relatively) really regret not having gone lump sum after a longer period of time has passed, as this whole analysis that its the better deal doesnt hold up if someone drops a lump sum and the company closes up shop after a few months, or they do something to make you want to quit. Someone who went VIP and spent 30 USD before that happened wouldnt see it through the same lens as someone who dropped 200 USD on packs and such.

2. Subscription revenue creates demand to actually keep headcount. There are plenty of people who are no longer satisfied, but due to TRing alot and having bought content lump sum, can easily keep up with buying all packs on earned points alone. The company makes zero off these folks, but each month that goes by where a subscriber is not satisfied they lose money. When the subscribers leave the company doesnt market to get them to return. They up the grind to get those who buy everything item by item to pay more to get through it quicker.

3. The "owners vs renters" debate. When the game finally turns off, whenever that happens, both leave with nothing tangible. Subs pay per relegated time unit. Those buying packs and xpacs pay on a time unit dictated by the company's ability to put out content at whatever rate they can. Both are renters.

[Knobull]

OK. So maybe that was not all...

Remember subscription magazines? Anyone here old enough? You got to keep the magazines when your subscription expired. Newspapers worked like that too.

What if VIP worked like that? New packs are added to those you own as they are released, if you are subscribed when the pack is released.

I feel so old, but still think I'm 18 sometimes. Columbia House record/CD club anyone?

What's that sonny, you mean it's not the 80's anymore?

[HAL]

I'm not sure the comparison is accurate at all.

After all, if I cancel my Amazon Prime subscription I wouldn't find Amazon employees coming to my home and taking away everything I bought with it, would I?

As I understand it (not being an Amazon subscriber), Prime allows you to get perks like free shipping, watch content, etc. It doesn't get you anything physical that someone could come and take away. Same with DDO.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Instead of prattling about which metaphor sucks worse than which other metaphor, why not just look at the most important words in the original post:

"You are better off buying the packs than having a VIP account." (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/495165-You-are-better-off-buying-the-packs-than-having-a-VIP-account)
"I should have been buying packs instead. "

[Xgya]

As someone that has been Premium for about 10 years, I sure am glad I never went VIP.

I spent a bit over 400$ on DDO yet (plus buying expansions for other secondary accounts, but that's for a second account, so I won't count it here)

By comparison, 10 years would have cost me 1000$.

The 10% XP bonus doesn't look very good at the price I'd be paying for it.
I'm a miser with my points, only buying permanent stuff and shunning things like XP pots.
I also have bought tomes on only three characters in my whole roster, and have a few thousand astral shards left to spare.

As much as I am glad of my own purchase, I won't look down on people that go the VIP route either, both because they give a steady income stream to the devs and because it can be awesome for people that want to test the game out a bit. Two of my friends that started playing recently went VIP, and we're having tons of fun in all the content.
When a third member joined up while being only premium, I gladly forked out a few points to help her get into adventure packs she didn't own so she could tag along.

[vms4ever]

I am amazed. Three pages of response and no math?

12 years of VIP subscription = 144 months x 500 points/month = 72,000 points.

Rather nice little benefit of VIP. How many packs can you buy with 72,000 points?
If the OP didn't have all those points after dropping VIP, they were spent on something. If you're going to compare buying the packs vs VIP you should be including the monthly points in the calculation.

I don't think that there is a wrong choice between buying the packs or subscribing but I am happy with my subscription.

[Pyed-Pyper]

... How many packs can you buy with 72,000 points? ...

zero

(as long as you're VIP)

[Xanthrawl]

I am amazed. Three pages of response and no math?

12 years of VIP subscription = 144 months x 500 points/month = 72,000 points.

Rather nice little benefit of VIP. How many packs can you buy with 72,000 points?
If the OP didn't have all those points after dropping VIP, they were spent on something. If you're going to compare buying the packs vs VIP you should be including the monthly points in the calculation.

I don't think that there is a wrong choice between buying the packs or subscribing but I am happy with my subscription.


Your math is off by a significant margin. Vip did not get 500 points per month for 12 years. F2P and the DDO store was released in 2009, I believe. And if memory serves, the 500 points per month perk was added later, though as a Premium player I may be incorrect about this.

Your point is still valid. He got something for his subscription, and probably enough points through VIP and favor to unlock most of the game, unless he was buying pots/boxes/etc.

[PermaBanned]

OK. So maybe that was not all...

Remember subscription magazines? Anyone here old enough? You got to keep the magazines when your subscription expired. Newspapers worked like that too.

What if VIP worked like that? New packs are added to those you own as they are released, if you are subscribed when the pack is released.

I feel so old, but still think I'm 18 sometimes. Columbia House record/CD club anyone?

What's that sonny, you mean it's not the 80's anymore?
On a completely unrelated note, your passing mention of the '80s combined with my waning interest in DDO has led me to an epiphany: we need Car Wars Online. Dear Uncle Schmalbert: please make it so?!

[Torkzed]

On a completely unrelated note, your passing mention of the '80s combined with my waning interest in DDO has led me to an epiphany: we need Car Wars Online. Dear Uncle Smalbert: please make it so?!

I had to login to the forums to second this idea! I would love to play Car Wars Online!

[slarden]

On a completely unrelated note, your passing mention of the '80s combined with my waning interest in DDO has led me to an epiphany: we need Car Wars Online. Dear Uncle Schmalbert: please make it so?!

Wasn't that called Carmageddon?

[vms4ever]

Your math is off by a significant margin. Vip did not get 500 points per month for 12 years. F2P and the DDO store was released in 2009, I believe. And if memory serves, the 500 points per month perk was added later, though as a Premium player I may be incorrect about this.

Your point is still valid. He got something for his subscription, and probably enough points through VIP and favor to unlock most of the game, unless he was buying pots/boxes/etc.

According to DDO wiki when Module 9 was released points were distributed including
"Retroactive DDO Points if you were a previous subscriber (now known as a VIP). Amount was based on length of membership."

I did assume that was based on the 500/month, which may be an incorrect assumption.

[PsychoBlonde]

If you have time to play and don't want to spend money, you can actually get all the packs for free just by playing. Make characters on all the servers, play every free quest on elite, use those points to buy packs and the first 2 monster manuals (since those give Turbine points). You can actually get enough points to buy literally everything just by making one character per server and farming out all available favor--you don't even have to do the expansions. I mathed it.

Is it grindy? Yes. But it's also free.

[DYWYPI]

Not counting the Expansions or Challenge Packs; it's around: 21300 DDO Points to get all the standard Quest Packs at normal retail price.

A Free to Play Player can get around: 1300 DDO Points via F2P quests. So loosely around: 16-17 Lives give or take... Without considering: first time tier bonuses, server bonuses and Adventure Pack purchases, etc.

[grausherra]

After a dozen years I let my sub slip and it slapped me in the face that I have absolutely nothing.
I now have the same thing a new player on FTP has. A chance to spend money.

All that cash wasted for years with no benifits worth talking about. I should have been buying packs instead.
If I ever come back I'll remember that.

Do you understand the difference between renting or owning a home? Or the difference between buying or leasing a vehicle?

[krimsonrane]

Do you understand the difference between renting or owning a home? Or the difference between buying or leasing a vehicle?

no wonder people are leaving.

[Silverleafeon]

Vip benefits not many people talk about:

+10% vip bonus xp
+X% vip bonus weekends
+y run speed in public areas
+45 minutes extra before auto afk dc
+DDO points each month
+quicker attention for any customer service issues
+1 free Eveningstar Ice Skating ticket each day

[Silverleafeon]

If you have time to play and don't want to spend money, you can actually get all the packs for free just by playing. Make characters on all the servers, play every free quest on elite, use those points to buy packs and the first 2 monster manuals (since those give Turbine points). You can actually get enough points to buy literally everything just by making one character per server and farming out all available favor--you don't even have to do the expansions. I mathed it.

Is it grindy? Yes. But it's also free.
+1

This is true, how many games allow the free to play to actually be competetive with the paying players?

Seen it posted, and Cordovan actually complimented the player on his efforts.

More players helps everyone.

[Niminae]

[...] I'm just curious if the OP or others get mad when they [...]


I have no sympathy for whiners who are whining about something they did to themselves.


[...] super-mad [...] It just seems like a weird thing to get upset about [...]


[...] throw a hissy [...]


Errm imho the most childish post in this whole thread was your own OP. [...] whine about it, blaming others for your own choices. [...]

I read the OP. And then I read the rest of the thread. The responses I quoted above seemed to be a bit off to me, as in they didn't seem to be rational responses to the OP. So I read the OP again. And then again.

I don't see a single word in the OP which can even remotely be qualified as a whine, a hissy, childish, or in any way indicates that the OP is either upset or mad or blaming anyone for anything. To me it reads as a simple PSA, detailing the OPs experience in a rather neutral manner and with no hyperbole or hysteria or anything even approaching any of the characterizations made about the OP in many of the responses.

The OP also has the large advantage of being factually accurate. If you're going to play for more than about 1 year it is more financially sound to purchase the content rather than to rent it.

[grandeibra]

I read the OP. And then I read the rest of the thread. The responses I quoted above seemed to be a bit off to me, as in they didn't seem to be rational responses to the OP. So I read the OP again. And then again.

I don't see a single word in the OP which can even remotely be qualified as a whine, a hissy, childish, or in any way indicates that the OP is either upset or mad or blaming anyone for anything.

To me it reads as a simple PSA, detailing the OPs experience in a rather neutral manner and with no hyperbole In very first sentence of OP: "and it slapped me in the face". Third sentence: "All that cash wasted for years with no benefit worth talking about". IMHO that is clearly whining, hyperbole, and NOT factual. The bit about a slap clearly states that he feels wronged by some third party that did the slapping. Fact is: He did not get slapped in face (the pros and cons were clear from start) and yes the cash he used yielded tons of benefits worth talking about (so he used clear hyperbole in OP). Now, whether it was worth it or not is completely up to each individual's preferences. But both renting and buying have benefits and shortcomings. And both are quite clear so no retroactive slap in face.


The OP also has the large advantage of being factually accurate. If you're going to play for more than about 1 year it is more financially sound to purchase the content rather than to rent it.That is NOT factually accurate. That is a (IMHO quite reasonable) subjective opinion. Even if it had been a fact the point is that the OP had all the info and made a conscious personal subjective choice that for him rental was the way to go. Now he is mad that he did and blames others (slap in face, hyperbole about having had no benefits to speak of) - the very definition of not being an adult, not taking own responsibility for choices made.

Again if the OP has the same opinion as you he should simply have decided that early and not rented. But he CHOSE rental. Possibly bc of some of these clear factual advantages that Silver and others mentioned:
+10% vip bonus xp
+X% vip bonus weekends
+y run speed in public areas
+45 minutes extra before auto afk dc
+DDO points each month
+quicker attention for any customer service issues
+1 free Eveningstar Ice Skating ticket each day

So again - NO the OP does NOT have a large advantage in being factually accurate. Instead the OP personally early on decided that rental was best for him personally (reasonable) and now deems that buying is better for him personally (reasonable) and that he had "no benefits worth talking about" (clear whiny factually incorrect hyperbole).

Btw - I personally very early on made the decision that for me buying had the advantage - mainly since I stay at cap so the 10% xp (and extra vip xp weekends) while supernice for TR training isn't worth as much for me as for many others. If my decision overall cost me more money or gave me less benefits I sure won't retroactively feel I got slapped in the face. I stand by my own free decisions, be em right or wrong when using 20-20 hindsight.

[Niminae]

In very first sentence of OP: "and it slapped me in the face". Third sentence: "All that cash wasted for years with no benefit worth talking about". IMHO that is clearly whining, hyperbole, and NOT factual.

Read "it slapped me in the face" as "I suddenly realized" or "it was a wake up call." That's the meaning of that phrase, unless you are looking to make something different or more sinister out of it. You can forgive a bit of poetic license, can't you?

Read "All that cash wasted for years with no benefit worth talking about" as a simple statement of fact. Renting is not buying. When a rental is over you walk away with nothing. The sole benefit, which I'll agree the OP is ignoring, is the access he obtained throughout his rental period. But he didn't entitle his post "VIP is a scam and a rip off and I was duped by Turbine/SSG," instead he entitled it "You are better off buying the packs than having a VIP account." You might say this is a matter of opinion, but unless you assign a very large dollar value to the list of minor benefits that come with a VIP subscription you cannot deny that the cost of buying all the content is far, far less than the cost of 12 years of a VIP subscription.

You state "the cash he used yielded tons of benefits," but the OP isn't denying this (and the value of those benefits are entirely subjective, which to your credit you agree with. But that's another discussion). All he is stating is that those benefits he obtained through his VIP subscription ended when it ended. That isn't whining, and it isn't hyperbole. It is a simple statement of fact. You don't have to like or appreciate the fact that someone is coming to the forums to share this news with others, but you cannot deny the truth of the words or the message.

[grandeibra]

The way you say the facts and opinions the OP mentioned I got no probs with at all, and that goes both for the parts I personally agree and the ones I don't. You seem levelheaded, even though (like many of us, myself included) you tend to view your opinion as facts instead of opinions :)

Btw - have you ever heard someone using the phrase "slap in the face" or "cash wasted with no benefit" when done renting an apartment and comparing his situation to someone who had opted to buy his nearby apartment years earlier? I haven't. That is what the OP did and why I and (I assume) the other posters interpreted his post the way we did.

As for your interpretation of slap in the face, sure. But do a quick google and you'll see the more "sinister" meaning being more common. "an affront" "an insult" "an unexpected rejection or affront" being the first three I get hehe. The key is it puts blame externally, not on yourself., which in this case was not very adult of the OP. imo

[HAL]

Read "All that cash wasted for years with no benefit worth talking about" as a simple statement of fact. Renting is not buying. When a rental is over you walk away with nothing. The sole benefit, which I'll agree the OP is ignoring, is the access he obtained throughout his rental period. But he didn't entitle his post "VIP is a scam and a rip off and I was duped by Turbine/SSG," instead he entitled it "You are better off buying the packs than having a VIP account." You might say this is a matter of opinion, but unless you assign a very large dollar value to the list of minor benefits that come with a VIP subscription you cannot deny that the cost of buying all the content is far, far less than the cost of 12 years of a VIP subscription.

As you say, the OP's statement is a matter of opinion. It also highly depends on your situation. As a brand new player, it is cheaper to buy a subscription for a month or a few months to get complete access to the game and then decide if you will stay than to purchase all the content you will want to use during those months.

However, if you knew for certain that you would be playing for years, and you didn't want the other benefits of being a VIP or were content to purchase them separately (where possible), then perhaps it is true that purchasing content is cheaper.

[slarden]

The way you say the facts and opinions the OP mentioned I got no probs with at all, and that goes both for the parts I personally agree and the ones I don't. You seem levelheaded, even though (like many of us, myself included) you tend to view your opinion as facts instead of opinions :)

Btw - have you ever heard someone using the phrase "slap in the face" or "cash wasted with no benefit" when done renting an apartment and comparing his situation to someone who had opted to buy his nearby apartment years earlier? I haven't. That is what the OP did and why I and (I assume) the other posters interpreted his post the way we did.

As for your interpretation of slap in the face, sure. But do a quick google and you'll see the more "sinister" meaning being more common. "an affront" "an insult" "an unexpected rejection or affront" being the first three I get hehe. The key is it puts blame externally, not on yourself., which in this case was not very adult of the OP. imo

When most people quit or take a break they don't have an exit strategy - they simply let their vip lapse and then lose access to all p2p content, classes, races, etc.

If you want to drop vip the optimal thing to do before letting your sub lapse is tr any key characters to races/classes you will own when your sub expires. Run for favor on all servers to bank points. Run all your playing characters to the nearest 100 favor. Get coin lord and house k favor on your bank toons before you lose the p2p packs and acquire some tp along with bank spots.

Once your sub expires focus entirely on heroic/racial tr and you have enough content with just f2p, motu and shadowfell to run a 1-20 life - I am assuming most people in the game own those already. Buy things on sale as much as possible. The f2p harbor quests give you tokens for tr - maybe keep on character at epic levels for farming tokens.

Simply running 1-20 lifes will earn you tp faster than ssg can publish new content so you will eventually have everything - especially if you are patient and wait for deep discounts. I think VIP is great and supports the game, but truth is if someone wants to downgrade from VIP to premium now is the time to do it with reaper and racial tr having the best roi in the game.

[Xanthrawl]

Btw - have you ever heard someone using the phrase "slap in the face" or "cash wasted with no benefit" when done renting an apartment and comparing his situation to someone who had opted to buy his nearby apartment years earlier? I haven't. That is what the OP did and why I and (I assume) the other posters interpreted his post the way we did.



Yes, actually. All the time, in fact. I live in Northern Virginia, where rental prices can be pretty similar to a mortgage. Many people feel that renting, while necessary in certain situations, is not a great way to go because at the end of the term you've essentially paid the landlords mortgage for him and have nothing to show for yourself. Sure you didn't have to sleep on the street, and you're not the one responsible when something breaks (although you are the one that is inconvenienced still.) But if you had found a place with a similar mortgage to the rent you were paying, you'd have had that same perk and owned something at the end of the day.

And as far as comparing to others, are you kidding me? That's pretty much all we do as a society. That's arguably the entire purpose of things like Facebook and Instagram - to compare your life with those around you under the guise of "sharing" or "staying in contact." The art of the "humblebrag" is much more common now, but I digress.

Again, the decision is up to the individual. No one made the OP be VIP for 12 years, and he has no one to blame but himself.

[PsychoBlonde]

Not counting the Expansions or Challenge Packs; it's around: 21300 DDO Points to get all the standard Quest Packs at normal retail price.

A Free to Play Player can get around: 1300 DDO Points via F2P quests. So loosely around: 16-17 Lives give or take... Without considering: first time tier bonuses, server bonuses and Adventure Pack purchases, etc.

Actually, it expands rapidly as you buy packs and the monster manuals so that each toon can net you about 5k on a single life assuming you do everything--the MM's alone, if you do them on each server, can get you around 5k points, and they cost about 1200, so it's a pretty good gain.

So, yeah, you can get all the packs and monster manuals and have points left over to pick your most wanted toon and get things like tomes.

[Chai]

The OP also has the large advantage of being factually accurate. If you're going to play for more than about 1 year it is more financially sound to purchase the content rather than to rent it.

Everyone's renting it.

Some pay lump sum up front for their lease, and some pay per time period.

Thats what makes the "owners versus renters" statements inaccurate. People compare it to renting a house, which is a poor analogy as when the bank can no longer profit, they cant just flip a switch and turn the house off. At some point when the game is gone, those who declared themselves "owners" will have zero tangible product for their purchase - same as those they declared "renters".

People are also sneezing at the 10% XP benefit of VIP, in a game where earning character power is directly tethered to gaining XP. 10 dollars a month for an always on XP bonus which stacks with other XP bonus, in and of itself is a good deal for those who play through TRs often. 33 Cents per day. Thats multiplicitively less than buying XP pots, which have a time limit. This is before we discuss having access to all content needed to rack up TR XP, and the points enough to buy the desired expansion content.

[Niminae]

As you say, the OP's statement is a matter of opinion.

That's the exact opposite of what I said. The OPs statement is a simple fact, and can be backed up by impartial numbers which are in no way subjective.


It also highly depends on your situation. As a brand new player, it is cheaper to buy a subscription for a month or a few months to get complete access to the game and then decide if you will stay than to purchase all the content you will want to use during those months.

Cheaper is the wrong word to use here. It is probably better as a trial of a new game. But it still isn't cheaper. It's the route I went, in fact. I have played a number of FTP games over the years, and I don't have any problems supporting the ones I have enjoyed and played for more than the time it took for me to figure out if they were games I'd keep playing. I'd pay ~$60 for any console or computer game I might purchase, so supporting a FTP game has never seemed to me to be a bad thing. So with DDO I played for a while, and then I bought a small amount of store points. And then I bought a 3 month VIP subscription. And while that was active I bought the seemingly-never-to-be-repeated-15-months-for-the-price-of-12 VIP subscription. And after that I went premium, because simple math told me that paying for another year's subscription was more expensive than just buying the content I wanted.

The OP tells a cautionary tale. If I were to rephrase if for my experience I'd say:


After a year and a half I let my sub slip because I realized that I'd have absolutely nothing when it expired.
I'd have the same thing a new FTP player has. A chance to spend money.

Rather than waste my cash for years with no benefits worth talking about, I bought packs instead.


This is only a very minor rephrasing of the OP, but I'd hope that I wouldn't be characterized as he was. Mad, upset, childish, throwing a hissy fit, blaming others for my own actions, etc. This is a simple statement of fact. Those posts were unkind and unwarranted.

[ivstuntman]

If you're fine with dropping like 700 dollars upfront sure. Otherwise VIP is the ideal way of unlocking content.

[HAL]

Yes, actually. All the time, in fact. I live in Northern Virginia, where rental prices can be pretty similar to a mortgage. Many people feel that renting, while necessary in certain situations, is not a great way to go because at the end of the term you've essentially paid the landlords mortgage for him and have nothing to show for yourself.

But why would renting / leasing be "a slap in the face"? Is the renter so stupid that they didn't realize that by renting they end up not owning anything? Some people may feel that renting isn't worth it, but when they are done renting it shouldn't be a surprise to them that they ended up with nothing to show for their money. It being a surprise is the problem with the OP.

[HAL]

That's the exact opposite of what I said. The OPs statement is a simple fact, and can be backed up by impartial numbers which are in no way subjective.

Whether it is "a slap in the face" or not is subjective.


Cheaper is the wrong word to use here.

It is cheaper if you end up leaving.


The OP tells a cautionary tale.

No, the OP admits that the obvious never occurred to him: if you rent, you end up with nothing to show for your money.

[brian14]

I started playing DDO in 2009. I bought most packs. I went VIP a little over a year ago. I am absolutely not going back.

First, there is the option of playing a pack on which I would never normally spend money, when for some reason it becomes useful -- like Restless Isles during Mimic event. Second, extra 6000 DDO points per year is nothing to sneeze at. But weekly gold rolls are the biggest benefit of all, as far as I am concerned.

[krimsonrane]

Whether it is "a slap in the face" or not is subjective.



It is cheaper if you end up leaving.



No, the OP admits that the obvious never occurred to him: if you rent, you end up with nothing to show for your money.

Even renters walk away with their furniture and possessions accumulated while renting.

[grandeibra]

Even renters walk away with their furniture and possessions accumulated while renting.errm if u rented the furniture then no u don't. hence rent. not buy. you opted to rent and reaped the benefits for years. doesn't mean you should now also reap the benefits that the people who opted to buy got instead.

and if you BOUGHT packs, items or whatever while renting your sub then you get to keep em, just like if you buy furniture while living in a rented space. Uberfail on your attempt there dude.

[boredGamer]

If you think you're walking away from this game with anything other than experiences, memories and friends, you're delusional.

[slarden]

Even renters walk away with their furniture and possessions accumulated while renting.

As far as I know you get to keep all the items acquired and even favor from packs you previously had access to.

[HAL]

Even renters walk away with their furniture and possessions accumulated while renting.

Renters didn't gain their furniture and possessions from their landlord. They went out to a different business and purchased them.

[Impaqt]

I've been a subscriber since 2006. I subscribe because I love the game and want to support it.. I've always found it to be a very good investment for what I got out of my $99 a year. I'm sure I paid a bit more than that early on as well.

I logged in a couple weeks ago to find my sub had lapsed. I had to pick characters I wanted to play. there were quite a few unselectable... Probably didnt buy the race or class I suppose.

I logged out an went to my account to figure out what happened..... Turns out I just failed to update my cards expiration date... Re-entered my card. Resubbed. logged back in. Everything back to normal.

I dont even play that much anymore. there are weeks that go by that all I logged in for was dice rolls. between my Full Time Job, Business I own with my wife and volunteer work I do, I just dont have the time anymore. but even if I just get to log in and play a few hours a month, its still worth it. Where else can you get this kind of entertainment for a few bucks an hour??? this is literally less than going to see a single movie in a theater.

I dont see letting my sub go ever. at least not until 2020 when my card expires next... because I'll probably forget to update it again.

[Niminae]

I've been a subscriber since 2006. I subscribe because I love the game and want to support it.. I've always found it to be a very good investment for what I got out of my $99 a year. I'm sure I paid a bit more than that early on as well.

I logged in a couple weeks ago to find my sub had lapsed. I had to pick characters I wanted to play. there were quite a few unselectable... Probably didnt buy the race or class I suppose.

I logged out an went to my account to figure out what happened..... Turns out I just failed to update my cards expiration date... Re-entered my card. Resubbed. logged back in. Everything back to normal.

I dont even play that much anymore. there are weeks that go by that all I logged in for was dice rolls. between my Full Time Job, Business I own with my wife and volunteer work I do, I just dont have the time anymore. but even if I just get to log in and play a few hours a month, its still worth it. Where else can you get this kind of entertainment for a few bucks an hour??? this is literally less than going to see a single movie in a theater.

I dont see letting my sub go ever. at least not until 2020 when my card expires next... because I'll probably forget to update it again.


This is actually the best story for why going Premium is the better course of action. Not only is it cheaper in the long term, but if you decide to take a break from the game for any period of time there's nothing counting down or renewing a charge while you're not playing. There's no pressure to play because you've got a subscription expiring. You can just take your break and relax in the knowledge that when you come back you can just pick up where you left off with no change at all.

[slarden]

This is actually the best story for why going Premium is the better course of action. Not only is it cheaper in the long term, but if you decide to take a break from the game for any period of time there's nothing counting down or renewing a charge while you're not playing. There's no pressure to play because you've got a subscription expiring. You can just take your break and relax in the knowledge that when you come back you can just pick up where you left off with no change at all.

It's not a big secret that premium is a lower overall cost of ownership. There have been many discussions on that since the beginning which is why SSG went to lengths to try and make VIP more valuable at various points. In the case of the OP it's obvious he once enjoyed the game more than he does now and let his vip lapse - now has buyer's remorse. Many people in this game will regret spending money and time on this game when it eventually closes down.

VIP is $100 and it comes with 6,000 points which has an approximate value of $50 on it's own. The 10% VIP bonus is worth 1/5 the value of a sovereign exlir so if you play 12 hours per week that is the equivalent of 20 sovereign II elixirs which would go for 11,000 points which is close to $100 value. VIP isn't an awful deal, but if your goal is to minimize spending there obviously better alternatives.

In the case of the op he has 3 clear choices if he wants access to the game - renew vip, buy product for tp or grind for tp which is the same exact choice he always had. He made it clear he is not playing the game so renewing doesn't make sense. Buying also doesn't make sense if he doesn't plan to play the game. Grinding for tp also doesn't make sense if he doesn't want to play the game. My guess is the op wanted to check on something and realized he didn't have access to his character because either the class or race is p2p so the character is locked. Aside from that there is no real difference if you are not playing the game but just dabbling.

If the op has no points to unlock content, races and classes it means he used the points he's earned with VIP and thus took advantage of other parts of VIP besides just the access to content.

There have been other posts on this subject- downgrading from VIP is tough because you can't purchase things while vip. Still when taking a break it's the perfect time to downgrade and buy the content while on sale. Additionally now is the perfect time to downgrade because the game over-rewards heroic tr for racials/reaper which requires less content.

I give this subject 2 violins on a scale of 1 to 10 violins. There was no secret or mystery to how this worked, op simply stopped playing and changed his priorities and hindsight is 20/20. If someone is going to stop playing when vip lapses they should do a little planning first, but truth is most people simply stop playing and don't give any thought to it.