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redoubt
03-22-2018, 05:32 PM
I've used Shiv all along, but I've seen increased comments about using Imp Feint. What do you see as the advantages of one over the other?

Shiv is a +3W where Imp Feint is +2W.
Feint has a shorter cooldown.
***Feint affects all mobs in an arc*** does this work??? Does it provide an AOE attack at +2W???

With assassin's trick I've just used it for fort reduction and sneak damage on hard to sneak mobs. Shiv has usually been enough to get sneak, so I rarely use assassin's trick.

Thoughts?


Wiki Descripions below:



Shiv: Melee Attack: +1/+2/+3[W] damage. On hit: Makes a Bluff check, using your Bluff skill, for one second + .25 seconds per Rogue level. On Sneak Attack: Target also gains a -2 Fortitude Save against Poisons for 20 seconds. (Stacks 5 times.) (Cooldown: 12 seconds) Passive: Reduces the threat of all your attacks by 5/10/15%

Improved Feint:
Cooldown: 8 seconds
Usage: Active
Prerequisite: One of Sneak Attack (Rogue level 1) or Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Description
Official: "A melee attack which also Bluffs the enemy, enabling Sneak attacks for a short period of time."
As of Update 34 Patch 2 (Release Notes) Improved Feint no longer requires Combat Expertise. The feat now adds +2[W] damage, and has had its cooldown reduced to six seconds. Threat reduction has been increased to 40%.
Observed behavior:
The use of this feat has inconsistent results. A moment after triggering Improved Feint, a bluff roll is made. The roll is modified by the character's bluff skill. If the roll is successful, combat messages will say your threat is reduced by 25%, and an effect icon will usually, but not always, appear. (The 25% threat reduction is a normal part of the bluff skill, but is independent of sneak attack damage.) The effect icon text is "Mostly Harmless: You have successfully used the bluff skill, and gain a 25% reduction to the threat generated by your melee attacks, missile attacks, and spells, making monsters less likely to attack you for a short time." The effect icon counts down for 6 seconds then disappears.
If a character performs any action immediately after using Improved Feint, the attempt to "bluff" does not proc and there's no effect.
With handwraps, there is no delay before the feat roll.
Sometimes the combat log shows sneak attack damage, but it is a replacement for normal damage. That is, you never hit with normal damage and sneak attack damage from one swing.
Recommendation: Until the bugs are fixed, only take this feat if you will be using handwraps and want to be able to trigger a 6 second 25% threat reduction. (It is unverified that this is working.) You would probably also want invest in your bluff skill.
Notes
For the official version of this feat (which is not working, as described above):
Affects multiple enemies in a frontal arc.
Behaves exactly like the Bluff feat, except for the cooldown, and it is on a separate timer than Bluff.
Does not have a bonus to the Bluff roll like Improved Trip's and Improved Sunder's +4.
A Fighter may select this feat as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Assassin's Trick: Activate: Target opponent loses 25% of their fortification and 25% of their immunity to sneak attacks for 15 seconds. (Cooldown: 6 seconds)

RD2play
03-22-2018, 08:25 PM
I'dd use all 3

Saekee
03-23-2018, 06:38 AM
Improved feint is a feat and only available to characters that have sneak die. It is hence a buff to all rogues and rogue splashes.

Improved feint has a short cooldown and bluffs everyone in an arc in front. That is huge. They all turn around, giving you self-defense. If you drop on quickly your next attack gets the next one that is bluffed for more sneak damage.

It also seems to add an attack to the chain on the main hand, like a quick doublestrike. That too is just awesome.

Unlike shiv, the bluff is shorter in duration and has a lower DC, so you need to have a good bluff skill.

I use it as the first attack on my toon due to the short cooldown and use shiv as a backup.


Assassin's trick costs a melee attack sequence--it sadly works better for ranged toons since they lose nothing during their attacks--but it makes things like skellies, oozes, etc. suddenly susceptible to sneak damage. Then using shiv/improved feint drops those guys quickly even if you main weapon is doing little damage, e.g. a dagger on a skelly is blech but the sneak damage will drop them.

You can also use assassin's trick to assassinate some mobs that are not normally susceptible to assassinate. For example, you can Trick the Woades and vine creatures and then assassinate them. If you are solo you will need to coordinate a precise sequence of Trick--bluff--assassinate. Needs timing but is thrilling to drop a big champ Woade in one shot.

Memnir
03-23-2018, 08:56 AM
Is Imp. Feint working now?
I recall it broke some time in the "ago", it stopped actually bluffing things, and it seemed to be taking forever to fix. I loved that feat until it broke, and have never heard definitively that it got better. Granted, I stopped looking out for it to be fixed, so the fault is largely mine. But if it is fixed... time to get a-rouge'n!

Saekee
03-23-2018, 11:22 AM
Is Imp. Feint working now?
I recall it broke some time in the "ago", it stopped actually bluffing things, and it seemed to be taking forever to fix. I loved that feat until it broke, and have never heard definitively that it got better. Granted, I stopped looking out for it to be fixed, so the fault is largely mine. But if it is fixed... time to get a-rouge'n!
recently (update 34 patch 2 (http://ddowiki.com/page/Improved_Feint)) it no longer requires combat expertise. It also reduces threat to 40% reduction although I can never figure out what is going on with aggro.

It does require a high bluff skill. So by mid heroics I wear bluff gear--or I recommend for rogue builds to use the Fens Raven Eye set from 7-19 (+10 search, spot, bluff and +3 hit and damage artifact, and +5 wisdom/Dex, reflex save)

HuneyMunster
04-11-2018, 09:25 AM
recently (update 34 patch 2 (http://ddowiki.com/page/Improved_Feint)) it no longer requires combat expertise. It also reduces threat to 40% reduction although I can never figure out what is going on with aggro.

It does require a high bluff skill. So by mid heroics I wear bluff gear--or I recommend for rogue builds to use the Fens Raven Eye set from 7-19 (+10 search, spot, bluff and +3 hit and damage artifact, and +5 wisdom/Dex, reflex save)


Have you tried Imp Feint in Legendary Content?


Bluff DC changes might have made it hard to reach the DC on a rogue due to lower charisma mod.

Curious to known how much bluff skill is needed now as the formula that was given seem fairly random, though might be due to monsters getting a d20. Or it is a DC of bluff +d20 with required based on formula: (creature level (CR) + quest level) multiplied by 1.5 and no d20 added?