Ranged Filigree options

[C-Dog]

Could someone ballpark the numbers (roughly is fine) for the filigree sets that give +4d6 +d6/Level damage vs. the ones that give +10-20 (+++) Ranged power? (The extra +'s being from the filigrees themselves, separate of the set bonus.)

I'm thinking that the simple +dice are better, esp at higher levels (since the RP doesn't scale), and/or if your ranged power is already fairly high (since +20 becomes proportionally less increase) - but that's just a gut guess, and I've been wrong before with these things. :rolleyes:

[Ultinoob]

English is my second language so i am not 100% sure what ballparking the numbers mean. But i assumed you meant do some calculations on this. So i did them:

At level 30 we get 4d6+10d6 totalling 14d6. This is 7*7=49 damage on average. So now we need to do 49 more damage from ranged power.
Since we don’t know the base damage or the crits i have to make some assumptions. Let’s assume we crit on 16-20x3. So for crits we multiply by 1.5. 49/1.5=32.67. So you need to get around 33 damage from the ranged power. If we assume the amount of ranged power you can get from filigrees is 20 and on level 30 you have 10*epic power=30. +3 shot on the run. +2 weapon focus. +20 scion of abora. +6*4 shiradi. This totals: 30+3+2+20+24=79. So you ranged power before filigrees is 79 and 99 after. 1.99/1.79=1.11. So the increase in percent is 11%. 33/0.11*1=300. So if your average damage after ranged power and before crits is more than 300 you are better of getting ranged power. But what is this if we look at the inventory.
300/(1.79(RP))=167.6.

So if your inventory tap says you do 167.6 damage before crits and ranged power you are at break even. If you do more damage 20 ranged power is better.

The thing is with these things is that you need to crit. Let’s look at something you can’t crit on. Then the numbers change: 300*1.5/1.79=251.4. Then you need to do 251 base damage.

Let me know if you need me to do the calculations for another example.

[Niminae]

Could someone ballpark the numbers (roughly is fine) for the filigree sets that give +4d6 +d6/Level damage vs. the ones that give +10-20 (+++) Ranged power? (The extra +'s being from the filigrees themselves, separate of the set bonus.)

I'm thinking that the simple +dice are better, esp at higher levels (since the RP doesn't scale), and/or if your ranged power is already fairly high (since +20 becomes proportionally less increase) - but that's just a gut guess, and I've been wrong before with these things. :rolleyes:

I've been looking at this also. And I haven't done any maths work yet. But it takes a 5 piece set to get the +20 ranged power on an action boost, and only a 3 piece set bonus to get the 4d6 +1d6 per character epic level damage per shot. And after 3 filigree in Deadly Rain you're out of things that contribute to your ranged damage unless you're a Dex based build. So the last 2 filigree are only getting you to the 5 piece set bonus.

With the 'spare' 2 filigree slots you could pick up 5 always on RP and +1 hit/+3 damage in Spines.

So just eyeballing it it seems to me that the always on effects are probably better in general, while the +20 RP (+15 effective) on action boost is probably better during boss fights where you'll be chaining those action boosts.

I think you'd need to lay out the filigree you'd be using for the 5 piece set and then the alternate filigree set w/o that 5 piece set, and also your weapon of choice, in order to get specific with your maths.

[Dunklerlindwurm]

If you do sneak attack damage you have to count that in too, since Sneak attack damage scales with 150% melee or ranged power.

[Brandall]

I am considering going with 3 pieces of the long shadow for 10rp and 50d6 in acid.
With that I can fit in the 4 piece of spines of the manticore for another 15rp

[C-Dog]

English is my second language so i am not 100% sure what ballparking the numbers mean.
Actually, it means to approximate. To be "in the ballpark" means "you're close enough" (since a ballpark is a BIG area).

Your response was more than I had hoped for - thanks!


I am considering going with 3 pieces of the long shadow for 10rp and 50d6 in acid.
With that I can fit in the 4 piece of spines of the manticore for another 15rp
I'm planning on 5 slots open - that's 20,000 xp. Each of 6 & 7 is another 20k, so... not this week, no.

[Enerdhil]

If we speak about ranged i think it also matters what ed are you planning to use.

Atm i'm in the same situation as you - thinking about filgrees for my ranged life. And just like you i wasnt sure whats better - extra elemental dmg or ranged power. I'm not really into advanced calculations, but there's one more thought i came up with. If you're going to use fury ED ranged power can be better. If i'm correct it's improving base dmg, so even 20rp can make a bigger difference if you're using adrenaline. Just a random thought, don't take is at 100% sure statement.

[Ultinoob]

Actually, it means to approximate. To be "in the ballpark" means "you're close enough" (since a ballpark is a BIG area).

Your response was more than I had hoped for - thanks!


I'm planning on 5 slots open - that's 20,000 xp. Each of 6 & 7 is another 20k, so... not this week, no.

Your very welcome. See my signature for a tool to roughly guestimate the DPS of a build. Maybe you can use this, but you are also very welcome to send me PM or post another question about math. My math skills are decent.

[Ultinoob]

If we speak about ranged i think it also matters what ed are you planning to use.

Atm i'm in the same situation as you - thinking about filgrees for my ranged life. And just like you i wasnt sure whats better - extra elemental dmg or ranged power. I'm not really into advanced calculations, but there's one more thought i came up with. If you're going to use fury ED ranged power can be better. If i'm correct it's improving base dmg, so even 20rp can make a bigger difference if you're using adrenaline. Just a random thought, don't take is at 100% sure statement.

Was this a math challenge?

[Ulfo]

You can have 35 constant RP with +2 to DEX ( usual main stat for ranged build ) or +1 to INT ( different main stat for INT builds like Arty or Mech ). 2 parts Deadly Rain and 2 part Long Shadow with both rare RP is obligate, other 3 any rare RP from any other set.

You can have 20 constant RP and max to 40 burst RP with same main stats with only 2 sets: 5 rare parts Deadly Rain and 2 rare parts Long Shadow.

As long as I have less than 7 filigree slot I use 1st variant with 3 Long Shadow parts.

[Cantor]

You can have 35 constant RP with +2 to DEX ( usual main stat for ranged build ) or +1 to INT ( different main stat for INT builds like Arty or Mech ). 2 parts Deadly Rain and 2 part Long Shadow with both rare RP is obligate, other 3 any rare RP from any other set.

You can have 20 constant RP and max to 40 burst RP with same main stats with only 2 sets: 5 rare parts Deadly Rain and 2 rare parts Long Shadow.

As long as I have less than 7 filigree slot I use 1st variant with 3 Long Shadow parts.

This is pretty close to the breakdown of my top choices.

The poor man option: you can do 3 long shadow 4 manticore for 25 rp and the acid damage. When you stack up a lot of rare RP filigree you can change to another layout.

[Niminae]

This is what I was considering for an Int based Artificer. I only specify Rare for the RP filigree, of course the other filigree would be welcome as rares also. They just wouldn't be doing anything for the ranged damage of the character.

Spines of the Manticore: Attack and Damage (+1 to hit and damage with all weapons)
Spines of the Manticore: Ranged Power (+3 Ranged Power RARE: +2 Ranged Power)
- Spines of the Manticore Set Bonus – 2 Pieces: +2 Damage

The Long Shadow: Attack and Damage (+1 to hit and damage)
The Long Shadow: Intelligence (+1 Intelligence)
The Long Shadow: Ranged Power (+3 Ranged Power RARE +2 Ranged Power)
- The Long Shadow Set Bonus - 2 Pieces: +5 Melee and Ranged Power
- The Long Shadow Set Bonus - 3 Pieces: Melee and Missile attacks deal an additional 4d6 +1d6 per character epic level in acid damage.

Deadly Rain: Ranged Power (+3 Ranged Power RARE +2 Ranged Power)
Deadly Rain: Attack and Damage (+1 to hit and damage)
Deadly Rain: Critical Confirmation and Damage (+2 to critical confirmation rolls and damage)
- Deadly Rain Set Bonus - 2 Pieces: +5 Ranged Power
- Deadly Rain Set Bonus – 3 Pieces: +2 Damage

[Ulfo]

You can remove Spines of the Manticore: Attack and Damage (+1 to hit and damage with all weapons) and change it to rare The Beast's Mantle: Ranged Power +5, then do same with Deadly Rain: Attack and Damage (+1 to hit and damage) and change it to rare The Wreath of Flame: Ranged Power +5.

Of course, then you not have free slot for elemental damage from Long Shadow set, but instead you have exactly, as I say before, permanent 35 RP and +1 to Int. 8)

[Yamani]

Could someone ballpark the numbers (roughly is fine) for the filigree sets that give +4d6 +d6/Level damage vs. the ones that give +10-20 (+++) Ranged power? (The extra +'s being from the filigrees themselves, separate of the set bonus.)

I'm thinking that the simple +dice are better, esp at higher levels (since the RP doesn't scale), and/or if your ranged power is already fairly high (since +20 becomes proportionally less increase) - but that's just a gut guess, and I've been wrong before with these things. :rolleyes:

Someone made this post awhile back, slight changes can be made for whatever build you are doing:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/492331-Filigree-sets-for-a-repeater