Pettition

[Ballrus]

Can you remove the 1 sec cooldown on shield bash?
Thanks in advance.

[Kriogen]

Which one? Active shield bash(goto block mode, bash with a shield) or "auto offhand proc" or vanguard clickie?

[Ballrus]

Which one? Active shield bash(goto block mode, bash with a shield) or "auto offhand proc" or vanguard clickie?
Auto off-hand.

By "vanguard Clikies" u mean shield smash and stunning shield?
I think these two and active shield bash scales with melle attack speed (no cooldown).

[C-Dog]

Response.

[Kriogen]

Auto off-hand.

Dont know if theres a cooldown in the others.
OK.

You can have it.

Can my off-hand pointy stick get AC, PRR, MRR bonus?

[guzzlr]

Did not know this was happening. I was going to be making a Vanguard coming up (haven't played one since the Pally nerf); I better make a tester and see how annoying the 1 sec cooldown is. But, I'm all for getting rid of it! ;)

[Ballrus]

OK.

You can have it.

Can my off-hand pointy stick get AC, PRR, MRR bonus?
Dont gonna hurt anyone. This dont gonna make s&b toons OP i think.
By the way, melees (non monks) need a bit help. With this new shield from RL, no cooldown will make a good difference in damage.

Swap your point sticky for a shield. You can use Fanion.

[Ballrus]

Or change the core 4 from vanguard:

Shield Combat II: additional +10% (total 30%) chance to make a secondary shield bash. While shield equipped, additional +5% (total 10%) Combat style bonus to Melee Attack Speed. Your shield gains +1(W) AND now u get NO cooldown in auto off-hand shield bash!!!

[Kriogen]

..
By the way, melees (non monks) need a bit help. ...
I agree.

I just want something for not-shield melee users. So that S&B doesnt become the only melee option.

[Ballrus]

I agree.

I just want something for not-shield melee users. So that S&B doesnt become the only melee option.

Agree with this.
This game need a melee revamp.

I just think that removing these cooldowns is a simplier way to improve melee fight. (for shield user's).

[noobodyfool]

Agree with this.
This game need a melee revamp.

I just think that removing these cooldowns is a simplier way to improve melee fight. (for shield user's).



I would like to sign this Petition MELEE NEEDS LOVE TOO especially fighters we cant heal like the rest of the classes and we are tired of chasing after mobs just to have a front row seat to watch OVERPOWERED THROWERS and CASTERS KILL them just before we die

[Elfishski]

Can you remove the 1 sec cooldown on shield bash?
Thanks in advance.

Disagree, I don't like this trend of just adding alacrity to everything to make all styles of play feel the same. I'd like shield bashes to stay 1/second, bears and trees to swing ponderously, and great crossbows to take an age to reload. That isn't to say I want them to be rubbish. By all means keep amping up the bonuses on those things with extra melee/ranged power or damage dice or critical profile or whatever.

It's fun playing some kind of rapid hitting melee with endlessly scrolling numbers, but it's nice for a different type of melee to feel different where you hit less often but every time you do you can see a huge chunk of the HP disappear. It makes the game experience feel more varied too - as the slow hard hitting build you love fighting a red named boss but it's bothersome to chase after the many weaker enemies. The high alacrity option has a different experience. More temptation to TR and change things up, more enjoyment in groups where different characters can shine at different times in a quest rather than everyone being reduced to a single "DPS" stat and a single "number of hits until death" stat is a good thing for the game.

[FuzzyDuck81]

iirc the reason for the fixed cooldown on shield bashes was to prevent issues with the animations

[Ballrus]

Disagree, I don't like this trend of just adding alacrity to everything to make all styles of play feel the same. I'd like shield bashes to stay 1/second, bears and trees to swing ponderously, and great crossbows to take an age to reload. That isn't to say I want them to be rubbish. By all means keep amping up the bonuses on those things with extra melee/ranged power or damage dice or critical profile or whatever.

It's fun playing some kind of rapid hitting melee with endlessly scrolling numbers, but it's nice for a different type of melee to feel different where you hit less often but every time you do you can see a huge chunk of the HP disappear. It makes the game experience feel more varied too - as the slow hard hitting build you love fighting a red named boss but it's bothersome to chase after the many weaker enemies. The high alacrity option has a different experience. More temptation to TR and change things up, more enjoyment in groups where different characters can shine at different times in a quest rather than everyone being reduced to a single "DPS" stat and a single "number of hits until death" stat is a good thing for the game.

Thats the problem. Shields hit slow AND soft.
Whats the point in have 91-96% shiled bash if i only can hit 1/sec?

[Ballrus]

iirc the reason for the fixed cooldown on shield bashes was to prevent issues with the animations
Allow doublestrikes on shield bashes.
Problem solved.

[Elfishski]

Thats the problem. Shields hit slow AND soft.
Whats the point in have 91-96% shiled bash if i only can hit 1/sec?

Well, they're not that soft... in heroics maybe, but at cap with e.g. The Best Defense shield shield bash crits with the expanded crit profile can be comfortably into 5 digits in reaper - it might not compare to what shintao monks can do 20 times per second, but still, it's not awful. I very much agree there are serious concerns about play balance on DPS melees in a group with chasing around looking for that one enemy that has deathblock (so someone didn't instakill it), and that an OP thrower didn't tear to shreds already from a safe distance, and that a less-OP ranged isn't kiting around too fast to catch (though you can intim this one at least), and that isn't something that will kill you in one hit because you focused on DPS. But I don't think those balance concerns would be best fixed by more DPS on the vanguard.

High skulls content is too binary already - you hit monster first it dies, it hits you first you die - at its best it's great tactical play on a knife-edge between cruising flawless success and a party wipe, but throw a less than perfect connection in there where you can't judge timing exactly it's just a frustrating mess. I'd rather less number escalation all round with more champion/reaper abilities that require working around for all classes including ranged and casters, leaving the melee with something to do. Melees don't need to get another pass like Armor Up where they become invulnerable through a huge pile of PRR/MRR before getting patched back down, nor do they need another 50 or 500 melee power tacked on "just because", it really won't help the current issues.

Hopefully the alleged solutions to melee play before the players council are more nuanced.

[Ballrus]

Well, they're not that soft... in heroics maybe, but at cap with e.g. The Best Defense shield shield bash crits with the expanded crit profile can be comfortably into 5 digits in reaper - it might not compare to what shintao monks can do 20 times per second, but still, it's not awful. I very much agree there are serious concerns about play balance on DPS melees in a group with chasing around looking for that one enemy that has deathblock (so someone didn't instakill it), and that an OP thrower didn't tear to shreds already from a safe distance, and that a less-OP ranged isn't kiting around too fast to catch (though you can intim this one at least), and that isn't something that will kill you in one hit because you focused on DPS. But I don't think those balance concerns would be best fixed by more DPS on the vanguard.

High skulls content is too binary already - you hit monster first it dies, it hits you first you die - at its best it's great tactical play on a knife-edge between cruising flawless success and a party wipe, but throw a less than perfect connection in there where you can't judge timing exactly it's just a frustrating mess. I'd rather less number escalation all round with more champion/reaper abilities that require working around for all classes including ranged and casters, leaving the melee with something to do. Melees don't need to get another pass like Armor Up where they become invulnerable through a huge pile of PRR/MRR before getting patched back down, nor do they need another 50 or 500 melee power tacked on "just because", it really won't help the current issues.

Hopefully the alleged solutions to melee play before the players council are more nuanced.

Five digits? Whats the secret? At lvl 30 i can hit for 1300~1400 on crits (non helpless) with 220mp with leg b defense and RL+CC gear.

[Elfishski]

Five digits? Whats the secret? At lvl 30 i can hit for 1300~1400 on crits (non helpless) with 220mp with leg b defense and RL+CC gear.

Well, my 10-20k hits would be on helpless targets (with so many stunning options, everything that isn't rednamed mostly is helpless) so I'm sure I'm overstating DPS, but my fighter vanguard isn't particularly optimized - see a recent thread https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/494496-Strimtom-s-Vanguide-An-Endgame-guide-to-playing-Fighter-Vanguard for what looks like a higher DPS pure vanguard build at the sacrifice of toughness. If you're a paladin rather than a fighter it would be more of a struggle.

If they are way behind on boss kobold beatdowns against all the other melee options then sure, add some more DPS into the relatively lacklustre T5 abilities (e.g. double the stacking of vulnerability which is pretty hard to keep up, add another +[W] to the shield bash increase option given the diminishing returns there anyway). Or give back 50% stunning on shield bashes as WAI instead of bugged which is/was great utility and more helpless damage.

[Ballrus]

Well, my 10-20k hits would be on helpless targets (with so many stunning options, everything that isn't rednamed mostly is helpless) so I'm sure I'm overstating DPS, but my fighter vanguard isn't particularly optimized - see a recent thread https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/494496-Strimtom-s-Vanguide-An-Endgame-guide-to-playing-Fighter-Vanguard for what looks like a higher DPS pure vanguard build at the sacrifice of toughness. If you're a paladin rather than a fighter it would be more of a struggle.

If they are way behind on boss kobold beatdowns against all the other melee options then sure, add some more DPS into the relatively lacklustre T5 abilities (e.g. double the stacking of vulnerability which is pretty hard to keep up, add another +[W] to the shield bash increase option given the diminishing returns there anyway). Or give back 50% stunning on shield bashes as WAI instead of bugged which is/was great utility and more helpless damage.

Thanks. I'll check

[redoubt]

Something should be done to help the shields. Several good ideas in the thread.

1. If the speed cap is because it breaks the animation, then make the auto stun proc percentage higher than 10%. Shields are "the" thing for vanguards. I like having the different melees be different. Not everything should be super fast all the time. Using a shield to be a CC melee could be a great way to have things play different.

2. Where are the new tower shields?

3. Dwarven throw your weight around. Could it apply to shields and tactical feat DCs as well?

4. What about using CHA as a DC stat for paladins?

[Spadedragon]

Can you remove the 1 sec cooldown on shield bash?
Thanks in advance.


Agreed.Increasing your chance of shield bash with this cool down in place seems kinda of pointless

[Selvera]

OK.

You can have it.

Can my off-hand pointy stick get AC, PRR, MRR bonus?

Mine (http://ddowiki.com/page/Two_Weapon_Defense) does (http://ddowiki.com/page/Tempest_enhancements).

[Ballrus]

Agreed.Increasing your chance of shield bash with this cool down in place seems kinda of pointless
Or, if theres a problem with animation, keep the cooldown and allow doublestrikes on shield bashes.
We have off hand dstrike, why not shield bash ds?