Renegade Mastermaker Early Preview v2

[Steelstar]

Hey, folks. Here's where Renegade Mastermaker's at after feedback, initial implementation, and an initial balance pass. A lot's stayed the same, a few things are new, and a few things were removed for technical and/or balance purposes. The below is a full list of the planned changes as of now. The tree looks essentially as it did before, with the two former slots of Power of Creation replaced with Kinetic Charge and Kinetic Discharge.

General Arti Changes/Other


Improved Construct Essence now functions like Construct Exemplar does presently on Live, granting full Construct species typing. It's available with 12 Artificer levels, and as an Artificer class feat.
Construct Exemplar is no longer part of the line with the other two. It now adds +20 Repair Amp and +10 MRR. It is available to any character level 20+.
Added Combat Expertise to the Arti feat list, because despite being an INT feat, and the fact that Fighters and Monks get it, they don't.
Added Empower Healing as an available Artificer metamagic
You no longer lose HP or SP when your Iron Defender dies. (Yes, this is coming to Druid as well).


Arcanotechnician:


(UPDATED): Uncaring Master gets replaced with Arcane Skills: +1/2/3 Spellcraft and UMD
(UPDATED): Palliative Admixture now scales at (20 temp hp + 1 per arti level, 10 temp sp + 1 for every 2 arti levels)
(UPDATED): Critical Admixture goes away (to Mastermaker), gets replaced with Runic Efficacy: Passive: +1 Evocation dc, +2 to Caster Level and Max Caster Level of Electric Spells, +2 to Rune Arm DCs.


Curative Admixtures:


Curative Admixture: Cure Critical Wounds is now a 5th level Artificer spell in the general Artificer spell table.
Scrolls of Curative Admixture: Cure Critical Wounds now occasionally drop in treasure wherever 5th level scrolls drop.
Curative Admixture spells have had their Spell Point costs adjusted.
Curative Admixture spells have had their Maximum Caster Levels raised to match their Cure (non-Mass) analogues, and added to their tooltips.
Curative Admixture spells have had their tooltips corrected with accurate damage values.
Curative Admixture spells are now properly considered Conjuration spells for the purpose of DCs and Caster Levels.


Artificer: Renegade Mastermaker Tree
Renegade Mastermaker is the third tree for Artificers. It focuses on improving your Repair spells, your Curative Admixture spells, personal Defense, and building things to buff you and your allies.

Cores:
Core 1: Each core ability in this tree grants you +10 Maximum Hit Points, +5 Positive Spell Power and +5 Repair Spell Power.
Core 2: (UPDATED): While in Medium Armor, Heavy Armor, or Adamantine Body, your equipped armor grants you a +4 Alchemical bonus to AC and immunity to Magic Missiles.
Core 3: Curative Admixture: CSW SLA. 4 Spell Points. 8 second cooldown.
Core 4: (UPDATED): +30 Repair Amplification. +50 Maximum Hit Points. +2 Max Dex Bonus while in Medium Armor, Heavy Armor, or Adamantine Body
Core 5: Radiant Forcefield SLA. 30 Spell Points. 3 minute cooldown.
Core 6: (UPDATED): +2 CON, +2 INT. +10 PRR, +10 MRR, +3 to Max Dex Bonus while in Medium Armor, Heavy Armor, or Adamantine Body. Active: Unbreakable Forcefield SLA: For 6 seconds, you take -95% damage from all sources (except Untyped damage). 3 minute cooldown.

Tier 1:


Curative Admixture: CLW SLA. 4/3/2 Spell Points. 12/8/6 second cooldown.
Repair Light Damage SLA 6/4/2 Spell Points. 4/3/2 second cooldown.
Supporting Construction: While in Medium or Heavy Armor (or Adamantine Body), +2/4/6 PRR.
Skills: Repair/Heal/Balance
Toughness: +5/10/15 max hp


Tier 2:


Kinetic Discharge: (NEW): Active Melee Cleave Attack: On hit, +1/2/3[w] and 2d6 Force damage. This damage scales with 200% Melee Power. 10 second cooldown.
Converter: You create a small device that floats near an ally. Target player, hireling, or Druid Wolf pet at touch range takes 100% base healing from Repair spells for the next 3 minutes (or until target dies). This overrides their innate base healing from Repair spells for the duration. 3 minute cooldown.
Armor Mastery: +1/2/3 Armor Class and Armor Max Dex Bonus
Stronger Admixtures: Your Admixture spells gain +3/6/10 to their maximum caster level.
Action Boost: (UPDATED): Action Boost: Defense OR Action Boost: Saving Throws


Tier 3:


Conjure Component: 10 Spell Points:You conjure a large number of components that stand in for the Potion requirements in all of your Admixture spells. These expire on logout.
Repair Moderate Damage SLA 8/6/4 Spell Points. 6/5/4 second cooldown.
Reinforced Armor: The Armor Class bonus you gain from armor or docents is increased by [15/30/50]%.
Warding Construct: 5 Spell Points: You create a drone set to counter magical spells. Every 10 seconds for 1 minute, you and nearby allies gain a +3 Alchemical bonus to Saving Throws vs. Magic and +3 Alchemical bonus to Saving Throws vs. Traps that lasts for 10 seconds. 3 minute cooldown.
CON/INT


Tier 4:


Kinetic Charge: (NEW): Passive: Any time you hit an opponent in Melee, you have a chance of gaining a stack of Kinetic Charge. Each stack grants a +1 Shield Bonus to AC for every 3 Artificer Levels you have. This stacks up to five times (for a potential total of +30). Stacks decrement by 1 every 15 seconds, and gaining a new stack resets the duration. Toggle: When this ability is toggled on, using Kinetic Discharge will clear all stacks of Kinetic Charge and slow (both movement and attack speed) all affected (non-boss) enemies by 10% per stack cleared for 10 seconds.
Reconstruct SLA 35/30/25 Spell Points. 30/15/6 second cooldown. Shares a cooldown with other Reconstruct SLAs.
Embed Component: (UPDATED): Construct Essence or Warforged Required. +5/10/15 MRR and +2/4/6 Constitution. You can no longer use Evasion, Druid Wild Shape feats, or Primal Avatar's Tree form.
Bolstering Construct: (NEW): 5 Spell Points. You create a drone set to disperse protective potions. Every 10 seconds for 60 seconds, you and nearby allies gain a +5 Determination bonus to PRR and MRR. 3 minute cooldown.
CON/INT


Tier 5:


Curative Admixture: Cure Critical Wounds SLA. 5 Spell Points. 12 second cooldown.
Instant Fix: You perform nearly-instantaneous repairs, dispelling most forms of Crowd Control and taking the effects of a Greater Restoration spell. May be used while helpless. 3 minute cooldown.
Paragon Body: (UPDATED): You no longer suffer Arcane Spell Failure from armor. You gain +4 to Fortitude Saves and +20% Racial bonus to maximum hit points.
Regeneration Construct: You are surrounded by arcane energy capable of repairing damage and breaking down constructed materials. Allies (equal to your Artificer level) are Repaired for 1 hit point per 3 Artificer levels as long as they are near you. Enemies vulnerable to Rust damage take the same amount in Rust damage. This lasts for 3 minutes + 3 seconds per Caster Level. 50 Spell Points. (This is a Repair analogue to Positive Energy Aura, expect it to work almost identically.)
Mastermaker: Your Repair Wounds spells have no maximum caster level.

[Hephaestas]

Bolstering Construct: (NEW): 5 Spell Points. You create a drone set to disperse protective potions. Every 10 seconds for 60 seconds, you and nearby allies gain a +5 Determination bonus to PRR and MRR. 3 minute cooldown..
[/LIST]

Incredible..Instead of finding a workaround set of numbers you just changed it to something I and many people won't even take now? +5 sheltering in comparison seems like hardly a consolation prize. Not even a scaling effect. Man. This is what we get when people cry for a class to stay unexciting.

[Steelstar]

Incredible..Instead of finding a workaround set of numbers you just changed it to something I and many people won't even take now? +5 sheltering in comparison seems like hardly a consolation prize. Not even a scaling effect. Man. This is what we get when people cry for a class to stay unexciting.

Player feedback was a factor in how we approached this ability, but at least as large a factor was internal playtesting showing that the tree was holding up very well across all difficulties on its own even without that ability. We're not even to Lamannia yet, still a good chance it could change.

[HastyPudding]

Player feedback was a factor in how we approached this ability, but at least as large a factor was internal playtesting showing that the tree was holding up very well across all difficulties on its own even without that ability. We're not even to Lamannia yet, still a good chance it could change.

Sorry, but 5 PRR/MRR aura for 60 seconds on a 3 minute cooldown is rather silly, especially compared to other supportive aura classes. Paladins can give comparable benefits with a few standard enhancements and it's permanent so long as the paladin is nearby. Protection domain clerics can give a whopping +40 PRR/MRR for 20 seconds and on an extended duration if they have a lot of turn undead uses. Spirit warlocks can give a hefty amount of temporary HP every few seconds, as well as a near permanent +3 PRR/MRR/AC boost.

Counter proposal: lower the PRR/MRR bonus to +1, but decrease the tick counter to every 2 seconds instead of 10, and allow the PRR/MRR bonus to stack (each stack lasting 5 seconds or so, each new stack refreshing the duration), granting an ever-increasing defensive bonus that gives up to 30 PRR/MRR at maximum duration. The balance is that if you move away from the artificer, the stacks don't refresh and you lose that ever-increasing bonus. This also encourages people to stay near the artificer, making it easier for you to heal, use buffs, protect others, etc.

[ForgettableNPC]

I'm going to also have to say nay on the Bolstering Construct
Especially if it's Determination bonus that doesn't stack with an Enlightened Spirit Warlock's Eldritch Aura buff.

[GramercyRiff]

Wow Bolstering Construct went from amazing to garbage. Huge knee jerk.

At least make it do something. It is a tier 4 ability.

[Hephaestas]

holding up very well across all difficulties on its own even without that ability.

Ah, well cool. Glad it's been changed to a completely extra buff that in your words, should never need be cast. Excellent. *sarcasm* Heaven knows +5 PRR won't do anything in R5+ lol. Or Legendary.... anything. In Heroic Normal difficulties if youre playing without any Sheltering items at all.... I guess it could be useful to such a player. Especially if playing melee as the tree is now suggesting.

EDIT: Seriously, if it's even worth putting something in that slot of the tree at this point - change it ENTIRELY because +5 Sheltering for 1minute is NOT going to save an Artificer running into Traps. It is NOT going to save party members from dying. It is NOT worth the AP when Battle Engineer is *Battle Engineer* and IF someone does go the suggested way of playing in this tree, while solo, +5 PRR will at best be what? -3% damage? Come on now...

[TMTrainer]

Ah, well cool. Glad it's been changed to a completely extra buff that in your words, should never need be cast. Excellent. *sarcasm* Heaven knows +5 PRR won't do anything in R5+ lol. Or Legendary.... anything. In Heroic Normal difficulties if youre playing without any Sheltering items at all.... I guess it could be useful to such a player. Especially if playing melee as the tree is now suggesting.

EDIT: Seriously, if it's even worth putting something in that slot of the tree at this point - change it ENTIRELY because +5 Sheltering for 1minute is NOT going to save an Artificer running into Traps. It is NOT going to save party members from dying. It is NOT worth the AP when Battle Engineer is *Battle Engineer* and IF someone does go the suggested way of playing in this tree, while solo, +5 PRR will at best be what? -3% damage? Come on now...

5 PRR barely does anything in heroic elite, let alone R1. Same with +3 saves against magic + traps.

Please don't make drones into worse generic warlock auras.

[ForgettableNPC]

Maybe it'd be more desirable if the constructs did something like

Warding Construct: Bonus to AC, MRR/PRR, Saves.
Bolstering Construct: Bonus to Attack speed and Melee/Ranged/Spell Power

Also not sure how I feel about the melee active.
It's nice to have SOME offensive option, yes, but I feel like the Mastermaker is more of a backline support caster instead of support melee.
Especially if none of the other enhancements give any melee power to boost it properly.

I'd still prefer something like ability to deal rust damage to non-construct units at a penalty.
Would get good use out of the repair spellpower.

[cru121]

Okay, both construct things are bad.

Kinetic Discharge is fairly similar to Eldritch Strike. Maybe ditch the +1/2/3 [W] and force damage; instead deal rune arm blast damage as if charged to tier 1/2/3 to all targets?

[cru121]

Curative Admixture: Cure Critical Wounds is now a 5th level Artificer spell in the general Artificer spell table.

Is this going to require CCW potions? Which don't exist (or maybe exist in the store only).

[Hephaestas]

Also, why was the Immunity to Knockdown taken out of the Tier 5? Are we trying to make this quasi-healer/defense playing Arty more likely to die and more reason to just go Tier 5's in Battle Engineer? If it's the latter it sure makes my decision making way easier. +20 MP/RP and +10% Movement Speed ANY day tyvm

[jakeelala]

Player feedback was a factor in how we approached this ability, but at least as large a factor was internal playtesting showing that the tree was holding up very well across all difficulties on its own even without that ability. We're not even to Lamannia yet, still a good chance it could change.

broken record here but maybe instead of worrying about how big this effect is, just make it something interesting and unique.

How about FoM and Mass Shield? Or Resists that scale (+1 per Arty level of caster)?

Just make it interesting and unique, it doesn't have to be OP.

[Wh070aa]

The tree is absolute trash. Sure you now have radiant servant for warforged. Woopty do, everyone is playing bladforged and can heal themselves anyway. Having 4 more healing SLA's does nothing worth the point investment.

Like it's still better to splash rogue and get mechanic trees trap enchantment instead of anything from this tree.

Like sure it be really powerful for all warforged guilds I guess.

[Edit]Wait, I understand now. This is meant to be Radiant servant for Bladforged paladin. Now I get it. You do the 15/5 Paladin/artificer, and use all that repair amp and paladin stuff.

[Seikojin]

Player feedback was a factor in how we approached this ability, but at least as large a factor was internal playtesting showing that the tree was holding up very well across all difficulties on its own even without that ability. We're not even to Lamannia yet, still a good chance it could change.

All the more reason to have more Lamannia builds running... :D

[edrein]

[B]General Arti Changes/Other...


1. Still no rune arm use for Half Elf Artificer Dilettante eh?
2. What about allowing druids to not break their oath with certain runearms that meet either material or thematic prerequisites? (I'm looking at you Corruption of Nature.)
3. I'd still love to see a certain spot that allows Renegade Mastermaker's to splash Swashbuckler in medium armor (as they give up the option to evade in the first place), as frankly other than the small snippet in Swashbuckler you've yet to really make that splash work or be attractive.

Overall, I'm a fan of the changes save the elephant in the room that everyone's a bit miffed about.

[Tilomere]

This looks much better.

There are going to be actual tanks with utility after this patch.

[Unsinful]

I see some interesting stuff developing in this tree regarding arty actually being a useful class to have in a party for reaper. Clearly everyone else is missing this. LoL

[Lonnbeimnech]

Is this going to require CCW potions? Which don't exist (or maybe exist in the store only).

Tier 3:

Conjure Component: 10 Spell Points:You conjure a large number of components that stand in for the Potion requirements in all of your Admixture spells. These expire on logout.

[Krelar]

Tier 3:

Conjure Component: 10 Spell Points:You conjure a large number of components that stand in for the Potion requirements in all of your Admixture spells. These expire on logout.

Being required to take a tier 3 enhancement in order to cast a 5th level spell doesn't seem much better.

[Steelstar]

Is this going to require CCW potions? Which don't exist (or maybe exist in the store only).

It has no material component cost, but a relatively expensive Spell Point cost compared to other Admixtures.

[PsychoBlonde]

Is this going to require CCW potions? Which don't exist (or maybe exist in the store only).

Good question.

[mikarddo]

Cores:
Core 1: Each core ability in this tree grants you +10 Maximum Hit Points, +5 Positive Spell Power and +5 Repair Spell Power.
Core 2: (UPDATED): While in Medium Armor, Heavy Armor, or Adamantine Body, your equipped armor grants you a +4 Alchemical bonus to AC and immunity to Magic Missil
Core 3: Curative Admixture: CSW SLA. 4 Spell Points. 8 second cooldown.
Core 4: (UPDATED): +30 Repair Amplification. +50 Maximum Hit Points. +2 Max Dex Bonus while in Medium Armor, Heavy Armor, or Adamantine Body
Core 5: Radiant Forcefield SLA. 30 Spell Points. 3 minute cooldown.
Core 6: (UPDATED): +2 CON, +2 INT. +10 PRR, +10 MRR, +3 to Max Dex Bonus while in Medium Armor, Heavy Armor, or Adamantine Body. Active: Unbreakable Forcefield SLA: For 6 seconds, you take -95% damage from all sources (except Untyped damage). 3 minute cooldown.


Please consider changing the 2nd core so the +4 AC is only in med/hvy/ada armor, but the immunity to magic missiles is in any armor.
Wrt the 4th core. Are all of the effects restricted to med/hvy/ada armor or is it just the +2 Max dex bonus thats restricted?
Same question wrt the 6th core.

[LeoLionxxx]

Tier 2:


Kinetic Discharge: (NEW): Active Melee Cleave Attack: On hit, +1/2/3[w] and 2d6 Force damage. This damage scales with 200% Melee Power. 10 second cooldown.


Tier 4:

[LIST]
Kinetic Charge: (NEW): Passive: Any time you hit an opponent in Melee, you have a chance of gaining a stack of Kinetic Charge. Each stack grants a +1 Shield Bonus to AC for every 3 Artificer Levels you have. This stacks up to five times (for a potential total of +30). Stacks decrement by 1 every 15 seconds, and gaining a new stack resets the duration. Toggle: When this ability is toggled on, using Kinetic Discharge will clear all stacks of Kinetic Charge and slow (both movement and attack speed) all affected (non-boss) enemies by 10% per stack cleared for 10 seconds.



This is an interesting boost to melee artificers. +30 AC does sound like a good number, larger than what a lv 30 tower shield will normally give, thus making up for not wearing one. If it's felt this isn't powerful or "worthwhile" enough, perhaps throw some PRR in there as well.

Adding CC to the discharge effect sounds interesting. Could the effect be made to look similar to the explosion from arcane blast, centered on yourself?

Slow seems like a good choice, since it will work on virtually all enemies. I also really like that this is a toggle, allowing players to turn the CC effect on and off, depending whether they want to focus survivability for themselves, or for the group.

Potential issue: Players may feel they need to restrict their use of the cleave/discharge so they can get the full CC benefit. At the same time, there may be frustration over the Charge stacks being gained in a random fashion, making the ability "unreliable".

Some ideas, for alternate implementation:

Remove 3 stacks (iff there are currently at least 3) and inflict 25% slow and lower PRR and/or MRR by X. This allows players to save the CC effect for when they need it, without eliminating their whole stack. I threw the PRR/MRR reduction in so that this does something against bosses; might be good to experiment with.
Remove 1 stack and inflict a stack of slow on nearby enemies. The first stack reduces speed by 20%, and 10% for every additional stack, up to 4 stacks. Perhaps more useful for prolonged fights, maybe

[hit_fido]

Incredible..Instead of finding a workaround set of numbers you just changed it to something I and many people won't even take now? +5 sheltering in comparison seems like hardly a consolation prize. Not even a scaling effect. Man. This is what we get when people cry for a class to stay unexciting.

Sad trombone. Tier 4 enhancement that costs spell points, is active only 1 minute out of every 3, and offers less prr/mrr than the two tier 1 enhancements from enlightened spirit, which are permanently active. I guess it's supposed to be impressive that allies nearby get the buff too, but then it's really not even as good as the tier 2/3 enlightened spirit enhancements that are once again permanent ally buffs.

That's an absolutely awful tier 4.

[Hilltrot]

Player feedback was a factor in how we approached this ability, but at least as large a factor was internal playtesting showing that the tree was holding up very well across all difficulties on its own even without that ability. We're not even to Lamannia yet, still a good chance it could change.

I didn't want to say it, but the first one was bad IMO. I'm glad you got rid of it. I was just imagining parties of artificers timing the ability to keep that shield up. And every artificer being expected to have it. The second one, however, is no better. Replace it with an AoE attack? I don't know. I just know that I'm not likely to be spending AP on an activate ability which gives +5 MRR and PRR 1/3 of the time. Especially, when it will be done better by a Warlock of which there are plenty.

I guess some min/max players will see the difference between 100 and 105 PRR for 60 seconds, but most won't even know it happened.

Honestly, I think you're right that it is a powerful enough ability. It just won't feel or look like it to most players.

[DrawingGuy]

Bolstering Construct: (NEW): 5 Spell Points. You create a drone set to disperse protective potions. Every 10 seconds for 60 seconds, you and nearby allies gain a +5 Determination bonus to PRR and MRR. 3 minute cooldown.


As many have already complained about, this ability went from brokenly OP to brokenly weak. How about make the buff last 60 seconds and stack with each pulse for a max of 6 stacks? 30 PRR/MRR would be worthwhile but not game breaking, and while it's true that 2 Arties could potentially rotate the buff, I see no problem with allowing that teamwork for something that is respectable but not overpowered. Obviously the duration of the buff could be played with - such as lasting 30s so that the buff would be 50% uptime instead of 66%... but by allowing it to stack pulses in some manner you can solve it from being too weak.

[Des0xyn]

Tend to agree with what the others have already mentioned about the tier 4s.


Kinetic Charge: (NEW): Passive: Any time you hit an opponent in Melee, you have a chance of gaining a stack of Kinetic Charge. Each stack grants a +1 Shield Bonus to AC for every 3 Artificer Levels you have. This stacks up to five times (for a potential total of +30). Stacks decrement by 1 every 15 seconds, and gaining a new stack resets the duration. Toggle: When this ability is toggled on, using Kinetic Discharge will clear all stacks of Kinetic Charge and slow (both movement and attack speed) all affected (non-boss) enemies by 10% per stack cleared for 10 seconds.

This is an interesting mechanic. Although yeah, the all or nothing aspect is not as attractive as the times you would use the slow proc is when the mobs are going to overwhelm you in melee, and that is when you wouldn't want to lose your AC too. Also, I'm assuming the slow proc only works if the mobs hit in melee? As such, if the attack bugs out, or mobs suddenly move just out of range, the AC is lost for nothing. Kinetic discharge already has a 10 second cooldown too, so I guess the alternative is to forgo/not expect AC all the time, and just spam it every 10 seconds?

I feel an alternative way to implement it would be similar to how deparvity is used in tainted scholar. Abilities that use it have a fixed cost for it (ie activate for 7 deparvity). That could be worked in for kinetic charge too I guess, maybe using 5/6 stacks of kinetic charge for each slow attack (as compared to all stacks). That would allow you to still have some AC boost up while still actively using the slow mechanics.


Embed Component: (UPDATED): Construct Essence or Warforged Required. +5/10/15 MRR and +2/4/6 Constitution. You can no longer use Evasion, Druid Wild Shape feats, or Primal Avatar's Tree form.

Would this +6 constitution be a competence/sacred/racial/feat bonus? Wondering what it would/would not stack with.


Bolstering Construct: (NEW): 5 Spell Points. You create a drone set to disperse protective potions. Every 10 seconds for 60 seconds, you and nearby allies gain a +5 Determination bonus to PRR and MRR. 3 minute cooldown.
CON/INT

Agree with the rest that 1min uptime with 3 min cooldown is too much of a hassle for the +5 determination bonus. When would you actively click for it? Save it for only just before a boss fight?

A direct comparison would be the tier 2/3 enhancements from enlightened spirit (spiritual ward/bastion). That has a 100% uptime, is also +3 determination bonus to PRR/MRR, and although it costs 6ap total, it gives the user +10 PRR and +10MRR.

Bolstering construct is a tier 4, and probably only 2AP at best, so maybe +5 PRR / +5 MRR to the user and a stacking +5 PRR/ +5 MRR to allies around (maybe not determination bonus?), and let it have a 100% uptime, so we would cast at the beginning of quest/ after rest and forget. Feels more user friendly and usable in that sense.

[mikarddo]

I am having a hard time seeing using this tree on a ranged, light armor artificer with some rogue for evasion.
Maybe for the self-healing though getting to tier 4 (reconstruct) without much else to show for it is pretty expensive.
If the tree is not intented for such builds I guess its ok, but it seems lackluster. Maybe someone with more experience with artificers can point me to possible worthwhile uses for a range, light armor artificer.

[HastyPudding]

I am having a hard time seeing using this tree on a ranged, light armor artificer with some rogue for evasion.
Maybe for the self-healing though getting to tier 4 (reconstruct) without much else to show for it is pretty expensive.
If the tree is not intented for such builds I guess its ok, but it seems lackluster. Maybe someone with more experience with artificers can point me to possible worthwhile uses for a range, light armor artificer.

It's not really meant for 'light/evasion' artificers. It's okay for a few low-hanging boosts to survivability for ranged or spellcaster artificers, but it's meant more as a boost that melee artificers need and as a supportive/tanky build option.

[edrein]

I am having a hard time seeing using this tree on a ranged, light armor artificer with some rogue for evasion.
Maybe for the self-healing though getting to tier 4 (reconstruct) without much else to show for it is pretty expensive.
If the tree is not intented for such builds I guess its ok, but it seems lackluster. Maybe someone with more experience with artificers can point me to possible worthwhile uses for a range, light armor artificer.

Mostly the SLAs and actives are for those sort of builds. This tree is mostly to be a support platform and more importantly give melee battle engineers the defensive buffs they needed. AKA: Why everything is favoring medium and heavy armor. The devs expect that for those who are splashing will pick up goodies supporting that in other trees.

Essentially the devs rightfully believe that any pure or high-focused Artificer is going to run medium or heavy and are innately making a choice to forgo evasion tactics (as pure Artificers do not have access to evasion).

[Iriale]

Mostly the SLAs and actives are for those sort of builds. This tree is mostly to be a support platform and more importantly give melee battle engineers the defensive buffs they needed. AKA: Why everything is favoring medium and heavy armor. The devs expect that for those who are splashing will pick up goodies supporting that in other trees.

Essentially the devs rightfully believe that any pure or high-focused Artificer is going to run medium or heavy and are innately making a choice to forgo evasion tactics (as pure Artificers do not have access to evasion).
pure artis have access to evasion through the Shadowdancer ED.

What the devs forget is that trapping is an important and fundamental role for this class, and for it evasion is very desirable. Artificers should not be tanks; it is not a class designed for it. But they should be good trappers.

More support for light armor and even an evasion working only against traps would have been better than many of the proposed changes. I understand to give more resistance to melee artificers, but designers should not confuse an archetype of the class with the standard expected of the class. It is much more common for a group to expect from an artificer trapping skills than a superlative ability in melee.

In conclusion: support for melees artificers, great. But that designers do not expect medium or heavy armor to become the standard of the class.

[Hephaestas]

pure artis have access to evasion through the Shadowdancer ED.

What the devs forget is that trapping is an important and fundamental role for this class, and for it evasion is very desirable. Artificers should not be tanks; it is not a class designed for it. But they should be good trappers.

More support for light armor and even an evasion working only against traps would have been better than many of the proposed changes. I understand to give more resistance to melee artificers, but designers should not confuse an archetype of the class with the standard expected of the class. It is much more common for a group to expect from an artificer trapping skills than a superlative ability in melee.

In conclusion: support for melees artificers, great. But that designers do not expect medium or heavy armor to become the standard of the class.

Ugh, see, Ok a little History or perspective needs to be considered here now:

This is the problem I have with "DDO" Arties when you compare them back to their origin. Traditionally, Artificers are basically wizards who chose to channel their magic into items, and are therefore VERY into their items and defenses items can give them while bolstering their defenses with Infusions and Alchemical means. DDO Artificers use weird things called "Rune Arms" which are solely a DDO creation, and was only made because of the I guess inability or lack of a desire to create a 'real' 'Thunder Cannon' or 'Alchemist satchel.'

The PROBLEM IS is that in DDO, you can't acquire 'trapping' skills any other way than rogue or artificer, and since the devs back when Artificers were introduced gave Artificers (and understandably so) Trapping skills, they couldn't give them evasion - so what did the populace do? They splashed rogue, or even monk, or heck even ranger perhaps. Players build their pure Artificers as light armor users and by epics hung out in Shadow Dancer.

Now, i LOVEE playing a light armor evasion Artificer - its wayyy more fun than a point-and-shoot rogue, but unfortunately there just really isn't any classic support for Light Armor Artificers and so the dev's hands are tied in that sense. Obviously we can play our characters however we want and that's fine. I agree that Artificers who choose to wear Light should get *just a tad more, even if its less than heavy armor counterparts* - but we're in a real bind now because Artificers in DDO do NOT really do the "infusion" thing like in P&P, they do NOT have the choice to change their homunculi to anything other than an Iron Defender, they are very pidgeonholed for a class that is meant to dabble in a little bit of everything. Artificers classically don't do the "evasive" type, they do the "lemme pop this brew and gain resistance to X and don my heavy armor of fireproofing while casting Shield of Faith on myself" tough, armor champion type and it's gonna be as hard for me to change how I play this class in DDO as anyone else if I want to make the most of this new tree.

*shrug* It's just an unintentional consequence of having a class available that was incomplete from the start, for almost 7 years... :/

EDIT: I see I got my editions a bit muddled. The Alchemist Satchel and Thunder Cannon coming from 5e (heh, just played a thunder cannon Arty fairly recently). That said, my point still stands that DDO Artificers are a strange amalgamation class, since - and I failed to mention this in the original posting, Artificers really are enchanters - they are the REASON eberron has cool magic whiz. I wish our DDO Artys would get a bit of that original 3.5 inspiration and I could have my main make items - even if it was just like... temporary. Alas.

[Iriale]

Ugh, see, Ok a little History or perspective needs to be considered here now:

This is the problem I have with "DDO" Arties when you compare them back to their origin. Traditionally, Artificers are basically wizards who chose to channel their magic into items, and are therefore VERY into their items and defenses items can give them while bolstering their defenses with Infusions and Alchemical means. DDO Artificers use weird things called "Rune Arms" which are solely a DDO creation, and was only made because of the I guess inability or lack of a desire to create a 'real' 'Thunder Cannon' or 'Alchemist satchel.'

The PROBLEM IS is that in DDO, you can't acquire 'trapping' skills any other way than rogue or artificer, and since the devs back when Artificers were introduced gave Artificers (and understandably so) Trapping skills, they couldn't give them evasion - so what did the populace do? They splashed rogue, or even monk, or heck even ranger perhaps. Players build their pure Artificers as light armor users and by epics hung out in Shadow Dancer.

Now, i LOVEE playing a light armor evasion Artificer - its wayyy more fun than a point-and-shoot rogue, but unfortunately there just really isn't any classic support for Light Armor Artificers and so the dev's hands are tied in that sense. Obviously we can play our characters however we want and that's fine. I agree that Artificers who choose to wear Light should get *just a tad more, even if its less than heavy armor counterparts* - but we're in a real bind now because Artificers in DDO do NOT really do the "infusion" thing like in P&P, they do NOT have the choice to change their homunculi to anything other than an Iron Defender, they are very pidgeonholed for a class that is meant to dabble in a little bit of everything. Artificers classically don't do the "evasive" type, they do the "lemme pop this brew and gain resistance to X and don my heavy armor of fireproofing while casting Shield of Faith on myself" tough, armor champion type and it's gonna be as hard for me to change how I play this class in DDO as anyone else if I want to make the most of this new tree.

*shrug* It's just an unintentional consequence of having a class available that was incomplete from the start, for almost 7 years... :/
Well, in D&D artificers also have trapping skills and they can replace a rogue in this role. The difference is that in D&D evasion is much less necessary for a trapper than in DDO, and when is necessary it can be replaced by magic that gives a reduction in damage or better mobility (as levitate/fly magic). In DDO, many control traps are in a situation that favors trappers with evasion and the magic usually doesn't make up the lack of evasion.

[Hephaestas]

Well, in D&D artificers also have trapping skills and they can replace a rogue in this role. The difference is that in D&D evasion is much less necessary for a trapper than in DDO, and when is necessary it can be replaced by magic that gives a reduction in damage or better mobility (as levitate/fly magic). In DDO, many control traps are in a situation that favors trappers with evasion and the magic usually doesn't make up the lack of evasion.

Yeah... was gonna mention this... too true, too true.

[edrein]

pure artis have access to evasion through the Shadowdancer ED.

What the devs forget is that trapping is an important and fundamental role for this class, and for it evasion is very desirable. Artificers should not be tanks; it is not a class designed for it. But they should be good trappers.

More support for light armor and even an evasion working only against traps would have been better than many of the proposed changes. I understand to give more resistance to melee artificers, but designers should not confuse an archetype of the class with the standard expected of the class. It is much more common for a group to expect from an artificer trapping skills than a superlative ability in melee.

In conclusion: support for melees artificers, great. But that designers do not expect medium or heavy armor to become the standard of the class.

Artificers are more often than not melee based in tabletop. (When they aren't actually casting spells.) The devs have even admitted on livestream that the crossbow use was really a DDO invention.

[hit_fido]

You could make an argument that artificers could have a limited form of evasion available that only applies to trap damage - based on a renegade mastermaker's exceptional understanding of complicated/magical contraptions. It isn't speed and quickness that matters, it's understanding the nature of the trap device and being able to plan for mitigating the damage. That would have been a cool and exciting tier 5 in this tree. I can also see reasonable arguments against it.

That tier 4 should have just been tweaked instead of blown out. Or I would have liked to see something based on a supercharged ablative armor SLA. That's dispellable unlike temp hp. The warding construct could have applied an ablative armor effect either slower for longer (like 5 x artificer level of ablative armor every 20 seconds for two minutes) or fast and short (5 x level every 2 seconds for 10 seconds).

Some of the restrictions on medium/heavy armor might have been less bothersome and more thematic if the restriction was like druid - you have to be wearing some kind of metal (not leather, not wood) for them to work. That makes thematic sense to me rather than arbitrary exclusion of light armor. There's also too many schizo enhancements. Tier 1 Supporting Construction requires medium or heavy armor and it's only for a little prr. But tier 3 Reinforced Armor has no such restriction to medium/heavy and offers up to a 50% bonus to AC? What is the logic here for when medium/heavy is or isn't required?

Tier 3 warding construct is still absurdly weak. Why are you limiting abilities that cost spell points to 1 minute out of 3 when they don't offer any more benefit than comparable tier enhancements for other classes that are permanent and cost no spell points? The cooldown is silly for such a marginal benefit.

Kinetic Charge seems like an exciting and fun enhancement. From the description it's basically a cleaving no-fail 50% slow spell every 10 seconds. That seems worthy of a tier 4 enhancement.

[Hephaestas]

That tier 4 should have just been tweaked instead of blown out. Or I would have liked to see something based on a supercharged ablative armor SLA. That's dispellable unlike temp hp. The warding construct could have applied an ablative armor effect either slower for longer (like 5 x artificer level of ablative armor every 20 seconds for two minutes) or fast and short (5 x level every 2 seconds for 10 seconds).



That's a very interesting and neat idea. I like that. Like a Ablative Admixture that applies to everyone around them - it isn't temp HP like you said, it could be refreshed less often, makes thematic sense. +1

[zehnvhex]

Honestly, I feel that they're trying too hard to make Renegade Mastermaker into a healer arch-type when that is not at all what Renegade Mastermaker is about. RM is all about becomming this awesome steampunk cyborg.

The current state of healing in DDO is such that we already don't need the three healing classes we've got so why are they trying so hard to create a fourth when the gameplay doesn't support it?

I feel this is a big swing and a miss by Steel and they should really go back to the drawing board on it. I look at this tree and it's like 50% reconstruct SLA's and abilities trying to make cure spells not suck. All of that could have been boiled down to maybe 2 enhancements instead of the what...10 it currently consumes?

That would have left far more room for awesome cyborg abilities like:

- "Adaptive Reflexes" 3/5/7 shot action boost that grants improved evasion for 10 seconds.

- "Focusing Sights" grants ghost touch and true seeing, also auto-detects traps in range if spot check is made. Lasts 15 minutes, 100sp cost.

- "Engage Battlefist" Slams ground, stunning nearby enemies and grants +8 alchemical bonus to melee damage for 2 minutes. 90 second cooldown. Can be upgraded to "Engage Superior Battlefist" which lasts for 2 minutes and has the bonus of all of the artificer infusions (DR bypass, deadly weapons, etc...)

- "Hyper Agility" Raises jump cap by 10. Grants +3 reflex saves vs. traps. Grants immunity to slippery surfaces.

etc...

Things like that.

An enhancement that lets me cast repair spells on other people is extremely boring and lame considering that at level cap we're sporting like 200+ heal amp. I mean, "Summon curative admixture components." Seriously?

Your Christmas parties must be awesome. "Oh man, paper bags from the grocery store and instructions on how to make book covers from grocery bags. How rad!"

You can do better Steel. Please. Do better. Don't screw up steampunk cyborgs.

[Silverleafeon]

It has no material component cost, but a relatively expensive Spell Point cost compared to other Admixtures.

Would be nice (although going against D&D lore on potion creations) to have Cure Critical Wounds potions...


Still would like to see Converter improved, although I can understand that it probably considered too powerful to be able to convert the whole party...

[Iriale]

Artificers are more often than not melee based in tabletop. (When they aren't actually casting spells.) The devs have even admitted on livestream that the crossbow use was really a DDO invention.
Crossbows were crappy weapons in 3ed. Nobody used them except wizards in the first two levels. At least DDO made them viable.

But you misunderstand me. I do not say that DDO should not give support to melee artificers or that a melee artificer is a wrong concept (it's right and good support melee artis), but trapping is a very important role of the artificer and in DDO trapping favors the light armor and the evasion, unlike in pnp where the artifices use magic to replace the lack of evasion, and do not find missing evasion is a problem.

I am happy to change things to bring them closer to pnp, but that is not going to happen, so I point out an obvious fact to Steelstar. That people complained about the need to multiclass artificers not because they feel they need to wear heavy armor, but because trapping forces the need for evasion (and devs are not giving anything to cover this need in any tree, which is why many people will continue considering mandatory the multiclass)

[Iriale]

Would be nice (although going against D&D lore on potion creations) to have Cure Critical Wounds potions...


Still would like to see Converter improved, although I can understand that it probably considered too powerful to be able to convert the whole party...
There are Cure Critical Wounds potions in D&D, but not in common market. Only people with certain prestige classes could do them, so it was not a common market item. But that does not mean that can not there be a alchemist in Stormreach capable of doing them ...

[edrein]

Crossbows were crappy weapons in 3ed. Nobody used them except wizards in the first two levels. At least DDO made them viable.

But you misunderstand me. I do not say that DDO should not give support to melee artificers or that a melee artificer is a wrong concept (it's right and good support melee artis), but trapping is a very important role of the artificer and in DDO trapping favors the light armor and the evasion, unlike in pnp where the artifices use magic to replace the lack of evasion, and do not find missing evasion is a problem.

I am happy to change things to bring them closer to pnp, but that is not going to happen, so I point out an obvious fact to Steelstar. That people complained about the need to multiclass artificers not because they feel they need to wear heavy armor, but because trapping forces the need for evasion (and devs are not giving anything to cover this need in any tree, which is why many people will continue considering mandatory the multiclass)

Arguably speaking back in the day you'd be correct. The advent of MRR/PRR which is heavily tied into armor type helps negate this issue. I agree that successful evasion is no damage at all. But atleast now they can survive some traps with PRR/MRR.

I'd love to see as someone else suggested an ability that allows an artificer evasion solely against traps. They'd most likely have to lock it to some equipment based requirement: IE, a stance that sees you have a runearm equipped so that it works (it's the best way to prevent your flavor of the month medium/heavy armor splashes just for trap evasion.)

[Singular]

Player feedback was a factor in how we approached this ability, but at least as large a factor was internal playtesting showing that the tree was holding up very well across all difficulties on its own even without that ability. We're not even to Lamannia yet, still a good chance it could change.

Yeah, the other one was silly, glad you got rid of it. This version seems useless. I can't imagine why anyone would take it as is. If the goal is for a defensive buff, maybe double the numbers. If it's a construct buff, considering adding other qualities, like +1 saves and so on.

[SerPounce]

I'm sure this has been brought up in one the the threads, but what's the status of quickening the curative amixtures? Without quicken I have a hard time seeing them be of much use. They're too slow casting for a healing spell and in epic/legendary damage outpaces concentration by a considerable margin making interruption a major problem for unquickened spells.

I tried using them as a fleshy arty once and eventually ditched it in favor of drinking the potions and using wands/scrolls for healing. It wasn't so much the potency that was the problem, it was the casting speed and lack of quicken.

[zehnvhex]

Here's my suggestion for Renegade Mastermaker tree. Nobody wants another healing tree while the current game meta does not support healers. Better to make it an awesome steampunk cyborg melee tree with some support tossed in for funsies.

Apologies for the format. Can only do so much with tables.



Battlefist T5: +1 competance bonus to melee threat range. +3 damage. 15% more fort bypass. Requires Battlefist T1 is active.
Pulse Strike: Launches a series of powerful blows at your opponent. Deals [4w] damage 4 times. Each blow has a 50% chance to knock your opponent down for 4 seconds. No save. 16 second cooldown. Requires Battlefist T1 is active. Shares cooldown with other strikes.
This Radiant Aura thing that Steelstar says will be totally cool like that Cleric ability nobody uses because you have to go t5 healing cleric to get.

Focusing Sights: Grants ghost touch, true seeing, immunity to blindness and Watchful Eye feat.


Battlefist T4: Active ability Imbue Battlefist. Grants all 'weapons' artificer transmutations (Adamantine, align, deadly, cold iron, etc...). Lasts 15 minutes. Passive additional 1 damage, 5% fort bypass. Requires Battlefist T1 is active.
Suppressing Strike: Launches a weak blow that deals [2w] damage and reduces targets damage by 30% for 4 seconds. 8 second cooldown. Requires Battlefist T1 is active. Shares cooldown with other strikes.
Reconstitute: Heals target for 10x artificer level + repair skill and grants stacking buff on target that increases amount healed by this ability by 20% (max 100% bonus). Ignores other healing modifiers (So works on fleshies, undead, ignores heal amp penalties (reaper lol) etc...) 10 Second cooldown.
Dispensing Arm: Can cast Curative Admixture: Cure Critical Wounds. SLA, does not require material component.
+1 str or int


Battlefiest T3: Active ability Chokehold. Strangles target creature silencing and rendering them helpless for 3 seconds (DC strength check). Deals 2[w] damage each second for 5 seconds regardless of save. Single target. 10 second cooldown. Passive additional 1 damage, 5% fort bypass. Requires Battlefist T1 is active.
Stealth Strike: Launches a quick, stealthy strike against your opponent. Deals [4w] damage and renders target vulnerable to sneak attacks for 4 seconds. Grants sneak attack dice equal to 1/4th artificer level for duration. 8 second cooldown. Requires Battlefist T1 is active. Shares cooldown with other strikes.
Support Construct: Creates a drone that grants 1x artificer level DR/- (2x arficier level DR/- in epic) for 30 seconds. 3 minute cooldown.
Dispensing arm: Can cast lightning grenade (as per trapmaking grenade) without material cost.
+1 str or int


Battlefiest T2: Active ability Slam. Pounds ground dealing 4[W] AE damage and stuns targets for 1 second (DC balance check). Targets that resist stun are instead slowed for 20% for 3 seconds. 8 Second cooldown. Passive additional 1 damage, 5% fort bypass. Requires Battlefist T1 is active.
Sonic Strike: Launches a powerful, sundering blow against your opponent. Deals [4w] AE damage and reduces AC of all targets by 10% for 5 seconds. 8 second cooldown. Requires Battlefist T1 is active. Shares cooldown with other strikes.
Combat Construct: Creates a drone that grants you and your allies 15% alchemical bonus to hit and fort bypass. Lasts 60 seconds, 3 minute cooldown.
Dispencing Arm: Can cast web trap (as per trapmaking web trap) as SLA. No material cost.
Adaptive Reflexes: Actionboost that grants Improved evasion against traps for 10 seconds. 3/5/7 charges.


Battlefist T1: Active ability: Grants +4 damage and 20% fort bypass when using melee weapons. Exclusive with power attack/precision.

Warding Construct: Creates a drone that grants you and your allies +15 alchemical bonus to PRR, MRR and +5 saves vs. spells. Lasts 60 seconds, 3 minute cooldown.

+1/2/3 to disarm, spot and search. +1 reflex vs straps at cap.




Embed Component T0: Grants 4/- DR, 10 melee power. Attacks grant stacking +1 ac (max +10).

-5% heal amp, +5% repair amp
Embed Component T1: 5 prr/5mrr, 10 HP, 10 melee power. Attacks grant stacking +2 AC (max +20).

-10% total heal amp, +10% total repair amp.
Embed Component T2: Melee attacks now can use int to determine damage and hit. Attacks grant stacking +3 AC (max +30 AC).

-20% total heal amp, +20% total repair amp.
Embed Component T3: +100 unconscious range, grants die hard feat. +10 melee power.

-40% total heal amp, +40% total repair amp.
Embed Component T4: +20 to jump, increases jump cap by 20. +20 to swim. 10% bonus runspeed. 10% melee alacrity. +1 crit multiplier.

-75% total heal amp, +75% total repair amp.
Emed Component T5:
Permanantly under effect of radiant forcefield. +10 melee power, +20% doublestrike.

-100% total heal amp, +100% total repair amp.

[edrein]

Here's my suggestion for Renegade Mastermaker tree. Nobody wants another healing tree while the current game meta does not support healers. Better to make it an awesome steampunk cyborg melee tree with some support tossed in for funsies.

Apologies for the format. Can only do so much with tables.

-snip hard to follow table-

I actually like some of these ideas. A lot of them need to be properly balanced though. 4W attack is ridiculous for non T5 abilities. Creating a penalty to positive amp probably wouldn't fly either. I like the Focusing Sight. Not a fan of the heal, atleast in the sense that it completely ignores reaper penalty as that's a can of worms waiting to be opened.

But overall, I do like your direction and idea with it. I'll admit I'm not a fan of another healing class and I truly hope that the third FVS tree isn't going to be healer based as well.

[Hephaestas]

Here's my suggestion for Renegade Mastermaker tree. Nobody wants another healing tree while the current game meta does not support healers. Better to make it an awesome steampunk cyborg melee tree with some support tossed in for funsies.

Apologies for the format. Can only do so much with tables.



Battlefist T5: +1 competance bonus to melee threat range. +3 damage. 15% more fort bypass. Requires Battlefist T1 is active.
Pulse Strike: Launches a series of powerful blows at your opponent. Deals [4w] damage 4 times. Each blow has a 50% chance to knock your opponent down for 4 seconds. No save. 16 second cooldown. Requires Battlefist T1 is active. Shares cooldown with other strikes.
This Radiant Aura thing that Steelstar says will be totally cool like that Cleric ability nobody uses because you have to go t5 healing cleric to get.

Focusing Sights: Grants ghost touch, true seeing, immunity to blindness and Watchful Eye feat.


Battlefist T4: Active ability Imbue Battlefist. Grants all 'weapons' artificer transmutations (Adamantine, align, deadly, cold iron, etc...). Lasts 15 minutes. Passive additional 1 damage, 5% fort bypass. Requires Battlefist T1 is active.
Suppressing Strike: Launches a weak blow that deals [2w] damage and reduces targets damage by 30% for 4 seconds. 8 second cooldown. Requires Battlefist T1 is active. Shares cooldown with other strikes.
Reconstitute: Heals target for 10x artificer level + repair skill and grants stacking buff on target that increases amount healed by this ability by 20% (max 100% bonus). Ignores other healing modifiers (So works on fleshies, undead, ignores heal amp penalties (reaper lol) etc...) 10 Second cooldown.
Dispensing Arm: Can cast Curative Admixture: Cure Critical Wounds. SLA, does not require material component.
+1 str or int


Battlefiest T3: Active ability Chokehold. Strangles target creature silencing and rendering them helpless for 3 seconds (DC strength check). Deals 2[w] damage each second for 5 seconds regardless of save. Single target. 10 second cooldown. Passive additional 1 damage, 5% fort bypass. Requires Battlefist T1 is active.
Stealth Strike: Launches a quick, stealthy strike against your opponent. Deals [4w] damage and renders target vulnerable to sneak attacks for 4 seconds. Grants sneak attack dice equal to 1/4th artificer level for duration. 8 second cooldown. Requires Battlefist T1 is active. Shares cooldown with other strikes.
Support Construct: Creates a drone that grants 1x artificer level DR/- (2x arficier level DR/- in epic) for 30 seconds. 3 minute cooldown.
Dispensing arm: Can cast lightning grenade (as per trapmaking grenade) without material cost.
+1 str or int


Battlefiest T2: Active ability Slam. Pounds ground dealing 4[W] AE damage and stuns targets for 1 second (DC balance check). Targets that resist stun are instead slowed for 20% for 3 seconds. 8 Second cooldown. Passive additional 1 damage, 5% fort bypass. Requires Battlefist T1 is active.
Sonic Strike: Launches a powerful, sundering blow against your opponent. Deals [4w] AE damage and reduces AC of all targets by 10% for 5 seconds. 8 second cooldown. Requires Battlefist T1 is active. Shares cooldown with other strikes.
Combat Construct: Creates a drone that grants you and your allies 15% alchemical bonus to hit and fort bypass. Lasts 60 seconds, 3 minute cooldown.
Dispencing Arm: Can cast web trap (as per trapmaking web trap) as SLA. No material cost.
Adaptive Reflexes: Actionboost that grants Improved evasion against traps for 10 seconds. 3/5/7 charges.


Battlefist T1: Active ability: Grants +4 damage and 20% fort bypass when using melee weapons. Exclusive with power attack/precision.

Warding Construct: Creates a drone that grants you and your allies +15 alchemical bonus to PRR, MRR and +5 saves vs. spells. Lasts 60 seconds, 3 minute cooldown.

+1/2/3 to disarm, spot and search. +1 reflex vs straps at cap.




Embed Component T0: Grants 4/- DR, 10 melee power. Attacks grant stacking +1 ac (max +10).

-5% heal amp, +5% repair amp
Embed Component T1: 5 prr/5mrr, 10 HP, 10 melee power. Attacks grant stacking +2 AC (max +20).

-10% total heal amp, +10% total repair amp.
Embed Component T2: Melee attacks now can use int to determine damage and hit. Attacks grant stacking +3 AC (max +30 AC).

-20% total heal amp, +20% total repair amp.
Embed Component T3: +100 unconscious range, grants die hard feat. +10 melee power.

-40% total heal amp, +40% total repair amp.
Embed Component T4: +20 to jump, increases jump cap by 20. +20 to swim. 10% bonus runspeed. 10% melee alacrity. +1 crit multiplier.

-75% total heal amp, +75% total repair amp.
Emed Component T5:
Permanantly under effect of radiant forcefield. +10 melee power, +20% doublestrike.

-100% total heal amp, +100% total repair amp.



*long whistle*

Now THAT's a Renegade Mastermaker. What a tree. Not without it's downsides, but still looks HELLA fun and thematic. Makes Melee Artificer 1000% better than it currently is, and all around looks fun to play.
I would ask for maybe that Conjure components SLA in if not here, in Arcaneo (makes more sense there anyway) - just because for convenience sake that would certainly be nice. Steel, PLEASE consider some of this, Zehn's outdone himself this time. +1 friend

[zehnvhex]

Not a fan of the heal, atleast in the sense that it completely ignores reaper penalty as that's a can of worms waiting to be opened.

I agree that getting into a reaper healing debate is a four hundred page sideshow we don't need right now so for the sake of brevity let's just leave the reaper aspect out of it and focus on it being able to hit warforged, fleshies and undead with equal force.

Numbers can always be tweaked. The idea was to create a control based melee which we sorely lack. Monk kinda fills that void with jade tomb but the longish cooldown on that makes it kinda iffy. So I tried to find a good balance between kicking butt and being able to manhandle your opponents.

I had this idea of some half-cyborg dude running into the middle of a bunch of kobolds, crushing ones head in a massive battlefist, then slamming it into the ground splattering blood everywhere and stunning the rest of the kobolds. He then launches a grenade into the rest of them sending body parts flying eveywhere and I'm like, "okay...this is the Eberron I know and love"

By contrast I look at the dev tree and all I really see is some dude who has to spend 8+ enhancement points for his curative admixtures he'll never use to heal for 50 more. Yay? Cue super-nerd voice, "Guys...hey guys! Group up so I can give you all +5 prr! GUUUUUYS??"

[SerPounce]

Regeneration Construct: You are surrounded by arcane energy capable of repairing damage and breaking down constructed materials. Allies (equal to your Artificer level) are Repaired for 1 hit point per 3 Artificer levels as long as they are near you. Enemies vulnerable to Rust damage take the same amount in Rust damage. This lasts for 3 minutes + 3 seconds per Caster Level. 50 Spell Points. (This is a Repair analogue to Positive Energy Aura, expect it to work almost identically.)
[/LIST]

Back in the day radiant aura was the bomb. You had much lower incoming damage, few other "free" healing options, and the possibility of very high healing amp with the old multiplying system.

These days a radiant aura feels at best OK-ish. Damage as vastly outpaced the increases to the aura and there are lots of other ways to get cheap healing (cocoon, consecration, renewal, SLAs, etc).

I would really consider giving both the radiant aura and this repair version a boost if they're going to be defining abilities of trees. As it is I'm a lot more excited about the t4 reconstruct SLA than the t5 aura. Repair amp is even lower than healing amp, repair spellpower is going to be lower than RS devotion in most cases, and even with the drone not as many people will benefit from repair.

It just adds to my sense that this is a good tree with a t5 that isn't very attractive compared to battle engineer or multiclassing. 6 levels of fighter could get you +20% HP from t4 SD, +1 crit range and muliplier from kensai, and a bunch of melee/ranged power. And you miss out on a dinky another anti-cc ability in addition to the harper pin and the one from dreadnought?

[edrein]

I agree that getting into a reaper healing debate is a four hundred page sideshow we don't need right now so for the sake of brevity let's just leave the reaper aspect out of it and focus on it being able to hit warforged, fleshies and undead with equal force.

Numbers can always be tweaked. The idea was to create a control based melee which we sorely lack. Monk kinda fills that void with jade tomb but the longish cooldown on that makes it kinda iffy. So I tried to find a good balance between kicking butt and being able to manhandle your opponents.

I had this idea of some half-cyborg dude running into the middle of a bunch of kobolds, crushing ones head in a massive battlefist, then slamming it into the ground splattering blood everywhere and stunning the rest of the kobolds. He then launches a grenade into the rest of them sending body parts flying eveywhere and I'm like, "okay...this is the Eberron I know and love"

By contrast I look at the dev tree and all I really see is some dude who has to spend 8+ enhancement points for his curative admixtures he'll never use to heal for 50 more. Yay? Cue super-nerd voice, "Guys...hey guys! Group up so I can give you all +5 prr! GUUUUUYS??"

I mean generally, yeah? I like the idea. Bonus points if it makes a Warforged look more like a titan with the massive arm cannon. But I feel like it's too late in the process for such a massive overhaul of the tree to go out. That and Steel tends to be a bit personally attached to his proposals for things.

[Tilomere]

I see some interesting stuff developing in this tree regarding arty actually being a useful class to have in a party for reaper. Clearly everyone else is missing this. LoL

An AT arti has always been useful. It has trapping, AoE healing, and AoE nuking. Plus since it's damage spells generally cap at level 10, you can monk evasion and ES warlock splash it by higher heroics as a permanent temp hp dispenser, which also makes it fairly tanky and provides even more group utility.

[zehnvhex]

But I feel like it's too late in the process for such a massive overhaul of the tree to go out. That and Steel tends to be a bit personally attached to his proposals for things.

Players: "Hey, we want a higher difficulty tier to add some new challenge!"

Devs: "okay here's Reaper, what do you think?"

Players: "Well we don't really need the reaper xp and the 10 tiers is a bit much. How about we keep it just one tier, keep the special mobs, remove the reaper xp tree and call it a day?"

Devs: "Haha nope! Also we're gonna change the long time standard of base level + 2 for max xp because reasons."

Players: "Gee....thanks. Hey uh, the player base is now more divided then ever, new players get introduced straight into a difficulty they can't even begin to contribute in, there's like tons of bugs involved in this, the balancing of the reaper tree is awful and the new meta has pretty much made melee feel gimped compared to DC casters outside of a few freak cases..."

Devs: "We hear you. Divide the player base. Got it! Here's racial PL's! Enjoy!"

[janave]

Crossbows were crappy weapons in 3ed. Nobody used them except wizards in the first two levels. At least DDO made them viable.

But you misunderstand me. I do not say that DDO should not give support to melee artificers or that a melee artificer is a wrong concept (it's right and good support melee artis), but trapping is a very important role of the artificer and in DDO trapping favors the light armor and the evasion, unlike in pnp where the artifices use magic to replace the lack of evasion, and do not find missing evasion is a problem.

I am happy to change things to bring them closer to pnp, but that is not going to happen, so I point out an obvious fact to Steelstar. That people complained about the need to multiclass artificers not because they feel they need to wear heavy armor, but because trapping forces the need for evasion (and devs are not giving anything to cover this need in any tree, which is why many people will continue considering mandatory the multiclass)

This is very insightful.

My suggestion would be to give Arties an evasion action boost higher up somewhere, so it is not too easy reach for fruit picking but for as long as ART is a main class, not an issue to get it. T4-T5 perhaps.

I also agree that a melee tree would be better, a tank tree will be 95% just like SD for FTR and PAL, people get 20aps of survivability for the DPS builds to easify high end content.

[Hephaestas]

This is very insightful.

My suggestion would be to give Arties an evasion action boost higher up somewhere, so it is not too easy reach for fruit picking but for as long as ART is a main class, not an issue to get it. T4-T5 perhaps.

I also agree that a melee tree would be better, a tank tree will be 95% just like SD for FTR and PAL, people get 20aps of survivability for the DPS builds to easify high end content.

Yeah... I mean I saw the initially proposed "Renewal Construct" as an 'Artificial' way of creating some some of protection from the trap that makes a ton of thematic sense - in addition to the group benefits it would add in other scenarios too, of course. Its a shame the numbers couldn't have just been adjusted... I'd still take 5 Temp HP per lvl (meaning a cap of 100 at 20) that refreshes every 5 seconds than a lousy +5 sheltering that is only gonna be (maybe) useful the moment you can take it in low levels and a laughable joke if someone pops it in epics.

[tpbtoc]

Players: "Hey, we want a higher difficulty tier to add some new challenge!"

Devs: "okay here's Reaper, what do you think?"

Players: "Well we don't really need the reaper xp and the 10 tiers is a bit much. How about we keep it just one tier, keep the special mobs, remove the reaper xp tree and call it a day?"

Devs: "Haha nope! Also we're gonna change the long time standard of base level + 2 for max xp because reasons."

Players: "Gee....thanks. Hey uh, the player base is now more divided then ever, new players get introduced straight into a difficulty they can't even begin to contribute in, there's like tons of bugs involved in this, the balancing of the reaper tree is awful and the new meta has pretty much made melee feel gimped compared to DC casters outside of a few freak cases..."

Devs: "We hear you. Divide the player base. Got it! Here's racial PL's! Enjoy!"

Pretty much that

[Nubom70]

Pretty bad. Half of the skills won't even be used if they change, minimal support for non-WF, and the admixtures for some reason STILL require a potion, even though in actual DnD they don't. Tier-3 to FIX something that should never exist.

[Arch-Necromancer]

Why not, instead of:


Tier 5:

Paragon Body: (UPDATED): You no longer suffer Arcane Spell Failure from armor. You gain +4 to Fortitude Saves and +20% Racial bonus to maximum hit points.


This:



Tier 3:

Reinforced Armor: (UPDATE) The Armor Class bonus you gain from armor or docents is increased by [15/30/50]%. (Rank 3) You no longer suffer Arcane Spell Failure from light armor.

Tier 4:

Embed Component: (UPDATE): Construct Essence or Warforged Required. You gain +5/10/15 MRR and +2/4/6 Constitution. You can no longer use Evasion, Druid Wild Shape feats, or Primal Avatar's Tree form. (Rank 3) You no longer suffer Arcane Spell Failure from medium armor.

Tier 5:

Paragon Body: (UPDATE): You no longer suffer Arcane Spell Failure from heavy armor. You gain +4 to Fortitude Saves and +20% Racial bonus to maximum hit points.

[valkrei]

In most MMO RPG's certain classes are desirable for certain boss fights and situations. Are some of the changes going that direction?

[SamaelBael]

Artificer: Renegade Mastermaker Tree
Renegade Mastermaker is the third tree for Artificers. It focuses on improving your Repair spells, your Curative Admixture spells, personal Defense, and building things to buff you and your allies.

Tier 3:


Warding Construct: 5 Spell Points: You create a drone set to counter magical spells. Every 10 seconds for 1 minute, you and nearby allies gain a +3 Alchemical bonus to Saving Throws vs. Magic and +3 Alchemical bonus to Saving Throws vs. Traps that lasts for 10 seconds. 3 minute cooldown.


Tier 4:


Bolstering Construct: (NEW): 5 Spell Points. You create a drone set to disperse protective potions. Every 10 seconds for 60 seconds, you and nearby allies gain a +5 Determination bonus to PRR and MRR. 3 minute cooldown.




Why do these drone enhancements need to be auras?
Why implement something that is likely never used?

For Warding Construct and Bolstering Construct I suggest changing the style from aura to song. Drones should be able to operate without their creator close-by.
Thematically I think a limited supply of drones would translate to charges/rest instead of long cooldowns. A picture of an artificer tinkering with used drones near a campfire comes to mind.

How about a small amount of temporary hp and temporary sp instead of possibly non-stacking boni? Similar to Sustaining Song from the Spellsinger, small values of temporary points in short intervals.
Imagine drones stapling/welding together the cuts on party-members regardless of race until a Heal/ Reconstruct/ Harm arrives to really fix the damage.





Tier 4:


Reconstruct SLA 35/30/25 Spell Points. 30/15/6 second cooldown. Shares a cooldown with other Reconstruct SLAs.


Is it really ok to get the Reconstruct SLA 10 character levels before it becomes available for the spellbook?

[Cantor]

Sorry, but 5 PRR/MRR aura for 60 seconds on a 3 minute cooldown is rather silly, especially compared to other supportive aura classes. Paladins can give comparable benefits with a few standard enhancements and it's permanent so long as the paladin is nearby. Protection domain clerics can give a whopping +40 PRR/MRR for 20 seconds and on an extended duration if they have a lot of turn undead uses. Spirit warlocks can give a hefty amount of temporary HP every few seconds, as well as a near permanent +3 PRR/MRR/AC boost.

Counter proposal: lower the PRR/MRR bonus to +1, but decrease the tick counter to every 2 seconds instead of 10, and allow the PRR/MRR bonus to stack (each stack lasting 5 seconds or so, each new stack refreshing the duration), granting an ever-increasing defensive bonus that gives up to 30 PRR/MRR at maximum duration. The balance is that if you move away from the artificer, the stacks don't refresh and you lose that ever-increasing bonus. This also encourages people to stay near the artificer, making it easier for you to heal, use buffs, protect others, etc.

I agree that 5 sheltering aura with 1/3 uptime is total **** for a T4 ability. But your proposal sounds like a how to of making lag. I'd propose an aoe sla buff that gives the 5 sheltering, 5-10 absorb to all elements, and 10+level temp hps with a haste/displacement duration.

[cru121]

Tier 5 could use some offensive ability.
Maybe make the make CCW SLA a multiselector with one of the repair abilities, and add something interesting to the free slot.

I would also like somewhere an ability that grants rune arms the defensive properties of a large shield - most notably the doubling of PRR/MRR vs magical attacks that allow Reflex saving throw.

[Hephaestas]

Tier 5 could use some offensive ability.
Maybe make the make CCW SLA a multiselector with one of the repair abilities, and add something interesting to the free slot.

I would also like somewhere an ability that grants rune arms the defensive properties of a large shield - most notably the doubling of PRR/MRR vs magical attacks that allow Reflex saving throw.

Excellent suggestion. Yeah the other two trees grant a Tier 5 that gives bonuses to you while wielding a rune arm. One's MP/RP, ones Spellpower - this one should be +20 Sheltering, or something like the above you stated. That would be really cool.

[Selvera]

Just a couple ideas to throw out there:

Converter: This is a great idea! It helps cut down on the "so you're a repair-healer, but no one's warforged so who are you healing?" problems that this tree would face otherwise, but... Having a 3 minute cooldown makes this ability super punishing to a group that's having a hard time. Being removed on death and not being able to re-apply until the full 3 minute cooldown is gone means that if the target happens to die, when they're raised they now can't be healed by the healer (if that's the role of this arti tree) and thus have to fight the thing that killed them likely without full health and certainly without healing... Which gets into the kick them while their down mentality for an ability.

Strong players who don't die can be healed whenever, no problem, weak players who die a lot can't get healed and die more. Widening the gap.

Bolstering Construct: Reading the comments this ability is... unpopular. And it's not hard to see why, it's a short duration small buff that people are likely to forget about. But on the other hand, if the tree is strong enough without it it can't be replaced by something much bigger and more impactful can it? Well maybe... how does this sound for a counter proposal?

Bolstering Converter: (New) You may now have converter effecting two allies at the same time. Additionally, the repair amplification granted by converter is increased to 150%.

That should be powerful enough to be picked up by (some) artificers in the tree, and feel like something strong enough to be in tier-4, while not overpowering the artificer character. If this needs to be even stronger, I would suggest adding back the sheltering, but making it effect those under the effect of converter.

[karatemack]

Bolstering Construct: (NEW): 5 Spell Points. You create a drone set to disperse protective potions. Every 10 seconds for 60 seconds, you and nearby allies gain a +5 Determination bonus to PRR and MRR. 3 minute cooldown.


This is worded oddly. Why would it tick off every 10 seconds if it were only +5 total? In case you weren't close enough to get it the first time it ticked?

Or... are these stacking +5s? So... if you're nearby as they go off you wind up with +30? How long do they last after they tick off?

[karatemack]

Nevermind... it's just 5. No stacking. Just tested it. When the pendulum swings... it swings hard and fast.