20 Monk: Shintao (reaper-optimized)

[Symbiont]

There have been a numerous amount of statements regarding the disadvantages of melee in high-skull reaper; after exponential mob and difficulty scaling, the base hits taken from generic mobs are colossal enough to absolutely annihilate a traditionalist character. Having to stand toe-to-toe with these mobs, while penetrating a plethora of damage-mitigating factors (AC, DR, etc) to physically inflict damage, is overwhelming. The sheer amount of reaper-related (and champion) abilities are numerous enough to vaporize anyone at a second's notice; the slightest deviation of attention, the slightest inconsistency in your optimization, the unluckiest (and most common) pulls of enemies all frequently result in your becoming of a soul stone. With the meta supposedly favoring those in the back-lines, and the stereotype for melee nearly desolate because of this; how could a melee possibly not only survive - but effectively perform - versus adversaries of this caliber? The solution is as effective as it is momentous: overpower your opponents with a build that is as devastatingly destructive as it is invulnerable.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fQfGzMspdfFV8pA0n_MWyp9gu1uJbyjcLQsOkq7-l1U/edit#gid=0

General Overview:

• HP (in Reaper): 2,500+
• Sustainable Dire Charge DC: 115
• Sustainable Jade/Shintao DC: 112
• Sustainable Stunning Fist DC: 108
• Physical Resistance Rating (PRR): 241; 70.67% damage mitigation
• Magical Resistance Rating (MRR): 50; 33.33% damage mitigation (monk cap)
• Dodge: 49%
• Incorporeal Miss Chance: 25%
• Armor Class: 226 (81% defense chance at level)
• +30% Passive Movement Speed and Abundant Steps
• Fortitude Save: 110
• Reflex Save: 110
• Will Save: 87
• Standing Doublestrike: 66.91%
• Fully-buffed Doublestrike: 103.91%
• Melee Power: 326
• Healing Amplification: 191

In this spreadsheet, every single item, everything taken during level progression, the DCs of every ability, and every aspect of performance is listed and elaborated upon in meticulous detail; this class, with the allocation of abilities and enhancements showcased in the file above, incorporates a maelstrom of abilities to debilitate and dismember anything unfortunate enough to stand in your hitbox, with an arsenal of primary and emergency CC (crowd-control) utilities to ensure that whatever you are attacking is too overcome to fight back. This build specializes in raw damage, with a truly scary amount of helpless amplification - while honing its ability to bring mobs to a helpless state. Numerous videos of the monk's performance in reaper are shown, and any questions/concerns are welcome!

[Tilomere]

The solution is as effective as it is momentous: overpower your opponents with a build that is as devastatingly destructive as it is invulnerable.

General Overview:

• HP (in Reaper): 2,500+
• Sustainable Dire Charge DC: 115
• Sustainable Jade/Shintao DC: 112
• Sustainable Stunning Fist DC: 108
• Physical Resistance Rating (PRR): 241; 70.67% damage mitigation
• Magical Resistance Rating (MRR): 50; 33.33% damage mitigation (monk cap)
• Dodge: 49%
• Incorporeal Miss Chance: 25%
• Armor Class: 226 (81% defense chance at level)
• +30% Passive Movement Speed and Abundant Steps
• Fortitude Save: 110
• Reflex Save: 110
• Will Save: 87
• Standing Doublestrike: 66.91%
• Fully-buffed Doublestrike: 103.91%
• Melee Power: 326
• Healing Amplification: 191



Does it have all of that at once?

What does this allow you to solo without the use of a hireling or consumables?

[Symbiont]

Does it have all of that at once?

What does this allow you to solo without the use of a hireling or consumables?

Yep, the screenshot of stats is in ocean; you can get all of this at once except the "fully-buffed doublestrike", which is in wind. Soloing mid-skulls is actually relatively easy; Dire Charge + Whirlwind absolutely disintegrates mobs, with the boss dps to shred most red-names extremely quickly. The only major problem is recovering from damage taken, but lengthy pauses for multiple cocoons between fights is more than sufficient. You can solo old baba's hut too (as aasimar, if you run back to the shrine every 15 minutes) :D

[blerkington]

Well done. It's a great write-up and a nice service to the community for people interested in running harder content on a melee.

I'd also like to extend a big LOL to SSG and their pretence of concern with class balance and maintaining challenge overall in the game. Keep up the good work guys!

Thanks.

[DrawingGuy]

A very nice setup. This does bring a question for me to feel stupid for never trying: Quick Strike, a "Melee Quarterstaff Attack", does not require a Quarterstaff? If not, going to punch myself and take it from now on.

I do have a suggestion if you are willing to kick your LGS HP to the side - change the following items:
Trinket: Echo of Ravenkind
Boots: Cannith Crafted - Dodge 15, Strength 15, Ins DEX 7
Goggles: Cannith Crafted - Concentration 22, Melee Alacrity, Ins WIS 7
Quiver: Quiver of Alacrity

Swap Slavers CON 17 with False Life 68
Swap Good augment with Deconstructor

You do give up the HP, Unconcious Range, 11 Accuracy, and 61 (41 after set bonus) HAMP... but gain:
+ Destruction on hit which builds up to 15% bypass and -15 AC (which translates to 30 Accuracy for everyone)
+ Adherent Set Bonus: 20 PRR, 20 HAMP, 10 MP
+ Allows you to drop Blinding Speed giving room for feats like Epic Reflexes for no-fail reflex, Precision for a accuracy and bypass (though is a survival hit), Vorpal Strikes for slashing bypass, Completionist, etc.
+ 3 more CON, 7 more DEX, 7 more WIS
+ Imp Deception for passive SA application
+ True Seeing that can't be dispelled


As for self healing, you can carry some swaps. Silverthread belt and/or Hands of the Dawn give you POS spell power that stack long with crit - Sadly Null uncenters you (though gives 104 more POS over Hands). Add in a LGS or GS hamp weapon, and you'll give yourself a pretty mean cocoon heal. For real efforts to counter Reaper penalties, you could also swap on a Mysterious Cloak.

For max self healing, you could temporarily uncenter yourself and use LGS main + Null offhand + Silverthread Belt + Mysterious Cloak. That would give 543 POS power and 30% crit chance along with 220 HAMP just from items. Monk and PLs add to both those numbers. Outside of Reaper it's possible to see Cocoon ticks for over 1k, and of course FOL would full heal you easily.

Personally I plan on running Aasimar for the LOHs and the 10% HP bonus. I'll be building other things a bit differently than what you have, but hoping I can be rolling with 2k+ HP in Reaper, same or higher defense stats, with QP in the 90s and DPS not far off from what you have. We'll see - still grinding those racials.

[Symbiont]

A very nice setup. This does bring a question for me to feel stupid for never trying: Quick Strike, a "Melee Quarterstaff Attack", does not require a Quarterstaff? If not, going to punch myself and take it from now on.

I do have a suggestion if you are willing to kick your LGS HP to the side - change the following items:
Trinket: Echo of Ravenkind
Boots: Cannith Crafted - Dodge 15, Strength 15, Ins DEX 7
Goggles: Cannith Crafted - Concentration 22, Melee Alacrity, Ins WIS 7
Quiver: Quiver of Alacrity

Swap Slavers CON 17 with False Life 68
Swap Good augment with Deconstructor

You do give up the HP, Unconcious Range, 11 Accuracy, and 61 (41 after set bonus) HAMP... but gain:
+ Destruction on hit which builds up to 15% bypass and -15 AC (which translates to 30 Accuracy for everyone)
+ Adherent Set Bonus: 20 PRR, 20 HAMP, 10 MP
+ Allows you to drop Blinding Speed giving room for feats like Epic Reflexes for no-fail reflex, Precision for a accuracy and bypass (though is a survival hit), Vorpal Strikes for slashing bypass, Completionist, etc.
+ 3 more CON, 7 more DEX, 7 more WIS
+ Imp Deception for passive SA application
+ True Seeing that can't be dispelled


As for self healing, you can carry some swaps. Silverthread belt and/or Hands of the Dawn give you POS spell power that stack long with crit - Sadly Null uncenters you (though gives 104 more POS over Hands). Add in a LGS or GS hamp weapon, and you'll give yourself a pretty mean cocoon heal. For real efforts to counter Reaper penalties, you could also swap on a Mysterious Cloak.

For max self healing, you could temporarily uncenter yourself and use LGS main + Null offhand + Silverthread Belt + Mysterious Cloak. That would give 543 POS power and 30% crit chance along with 220 HAMP just from items. Monk and PLs add to both those numbers. Outside of Reaper it's possible to see Cocoon ticks for over 1k, and of course FOL would full heal you easily.

Personally I plan on running Aasimar for the LOHs and the 10% HP bonus. I'll be building other things a bit differently than what you have, but hoping I can be rolling with 2k+ HP in Reaper, same or higher defense stats, with QP in the 90s and DPS not far off from what you have. We'll see - still grinding those racials.

Interestingly enough, some of these recommendations are what I'm currently doing. This is a spreadsheet I made two months ago; I'm actually currently running an Aasimar monk with Protectior Bond. Gave up the LGS set since Protector bond would offset this to a point; traded LGS boots for Legendary Flightfoot Greaves, and replaced Tier 2/3 of unconscious health with +11 insightful/+6 quality hide. I sat down and thought about +7 Dex versus +11 Accuracy pretty hard at the time, but at level cap, I find myself grazing much more than I'd reasonably want to be - and that's the #1 thing interfering with my ability to land my CCs, not so much the DCs. I'm also running Precision over Improved Combat Expertise to reinforce this (with more fortification bypass), and the amount of hits I'm able to consistently land on red-named/trash is very noticeable. On top of this, I have an inexhaustible supply of Insightful +2 Potions, so the difference is a bit more narrow in that sense.

As an Aasimar, I'm also running 26 APs into Ninja Spy, for +30% helpless (to offset losing Half-Orc +20%), and only 1 AP in Henshin; with an additional +10 MP from Adherent set, it's a 10 MP loss for a +10% helpless gain, which is a good trade imo. Morninglord's Handwraps deal slashing damage, and I just swap to it for an ooze-beater/DR breaker when it's relevant. If I had to swap the trinket for something, I'd put Insightful Combat Mastery +6 on a separate CC trinket - as that's the one super-important DC effect I couldn't fit. For 100% maxed self healing, I have a LGS kama + shuriken swap, but swapping multiple items for heal-amp after the induced 1 second cooldown is extremely taxing and a bit irrelevant when there's a dedicated healer in the group, which is generally the case in my static.

There are quite a few interesting things that can be done without the LGS Opposition set that I might look into; I've just ultimately decided that retaining accuracy with more hide from an LGS item (and the unconscious HP) would outweigh pretty much any other gear-combination that could be set, though I could be wrong there :D Quick Strike is Quarterstaff exclusive - I put a note in the spreadsheet directly over the enhancements table; swap to it to proc the doublestrike, then swap back to handwraps to gain +25% for the remainder of the duration. Though after SSG lets us buy the +1 racial tome with DDO points, I'll end up going back to Half-Orc for both Brutality and No Mercy x3, since I can't get both of these maxed with only 11 racial points. This has opened my eyes to shuffling gear around without the required LGS crutch though, we'll see what happens :)

[DrawingGuy]

Not a bad LGS item, as that dex skill is 1 point of hide away from giving a full 6 SA damage, which translates to 38 damage with 326 MP.

One thing you can do to help with accuracy is to be applying destruction - full destruction stacks equates to 30 Accuracy for everyone in party. Eagle Claw attack is a good way to apply it. If you can't afford the skill, then there's the Deconstructor augment. There's multiple ways you can give yourself Good bypass: flipping Cannith Crafted to boots (they too can have Ins CM, but not hamp sadly) and wearing Ravenloft trinket. Crafting LGS bypass clickies. Simply just using Scraps or another duality swap with good when that bypass is needed.

Precision is a pretty strong skill for the factor of avoiding grazing hits. The way that the formula works, it essentially means you need 10% less accuracy to avoid grazing hits, which means it is more powerful against high AC targets.

Really my hard decision comes with DCs. It doesn't matter how much Reaper kicks your DPS in the teeth if you can instakill, so giving up 10 DEX for 10 WIS is a no brainer to me - level ups into WIS is simply better once you have effective DCs. Also that means that I would take Insightful WIS over Insightful Combat Mastery in a second if you're not fitting Ins WIS elsewhere. That essentially translates to +3 to all your tactics including Quivering palm, which needs it the most. I should be able to have my QP in the 90s while only losing a tiny amount of DPS (we're talking double digit tops off a 4 digit number).

Another thing to debate is Completionist feat vs Sneak of Shadows vs Precision. SoS feat is indeed a strong burst, but only lasts 3 minutes per rest. Completionist gives +2 to all skills and abilities, which is +1 damage and +3 to hide (which is +1 SA) permanently, along with +1 to DCs (+2 if that is enough Int on KtA), +3 UMD, +1 to all saves, 30 HP, etc. To me, Completionist wins over SoS. SoS vs Precision is a bit tougher. I like CE as the 20 PRR and 20+ AC bonuses is strong, but the accuracy struggle is real for Reaper bosses. But being able to plip a button for 100+ SA damage on said bosses is also strong, especially considering you still get SA on grazing. What are your thoughts?

I also find going hard into helpless damage interesting. I'm still a little peeved they kept Ninja Spy's No Mercy at 2 AP a pop. I find that a bit tough to chew, though you do get more SA die along the way. Also Henshin was giving more than just 30 MP from the 3 cores -- Quick Draw halves the time it takes from using an Action Boost to being able to attack, 6 PRR, 20 HP, a Ki Strike... and more points into Henshin could mean 3 more dodge cap or 25% neg absorption from Vistani. But I may play around with that to see how I like it.

Side Note - The concept of weapon swapping for a 10s buff is ambitious, especially considering the 1s nerf they put on swapping. While the 25% ds buff is strong, not sure if it is practical.

[ifumoveudie]

So after reading this post, it clicked that I had seen your name before. 2 man Strahd. I was wondering what the chances were that I would ever see the build for that Monk, and here it is. I have always been a Barbarian, for over 9 years now actually. This though, is the turning point for me, as the game has become largely solo driven. I applaud your effort in making this build, and will most definitely be giving it a shot. One question tough, why make it Dex based, and not Wis??

[Kaboom2112]

I'd also like to extend a big LOL to SSG and their pretence of concern with class balance and maintaining challenge overall in the game. Keep up the good work guys!

Thanks.

Pendulums swing.

[Tilomere]

One question tough, why make it Dex based, and not Wis??

When handwraps became weapons, the dex to hit/damage from ninja spy applied to them. You can't get wisdom to damage with handwraps.





What are your thoughts?

Quick Draw halves the time it takes from using an Action Boost to being able to attack.



Precision + Elf wins boss dps, but as Gimli says, that still only counts as one!

They removed action boost delaying melee attack this last update (https://www.ddo.com/en/update-37-patch-4-release-notes).

[RS-Makk]

I may just use my +20 heart of wood on my capped ranger (that has most of the gear listed already and is sitting in 1250 Strahd runes I can turn in for the wraps) to switch to this. Lots of pugs have dried out lately and I want to solo some, and this would help.

Question - he’s a human so has an extra feat. Recommendation for that feat?

And real dumb question given I’ve never done a pure monk.. spell points just come from SP items?

[Arkat]

And real dumb question given I’ve never done a pure monk.. spell points just come from SP items?

Mostly, yes. 25 SP comes from a certain ship buff if your ship has it.

[DrawingGuy]

When handwraps became weapons, the dex to hit/damage from ninja spy applied to them. You can't get wisdom to damage with handwraps.

Precision + Elf wins boss dps, but as Gimli says, that still only counts as one!

They removed action boost delaying melee attack this last update (https://www.ddo.com/en/update-37-patch-4-release-notes).

Point for my not reading the release notes... so essentially between them removing the weapon swap purpose and now activation recovery being universal, Quick Draw is essentially 100% useless outside of throwing builds and melee casters. That definitely lowers the importance of the 3rd capstone beyond the 10MP/3PRR.

As for DEX vs WIS, there is an important reason for WIS: DCs. My opinion is it's all about Quivering Palm. With 34 tactics available in gear alone, you can reach extremely effective DCs on a secondary or tertiary stat. However QP does not benefit from gear, so it takes main-stat WIS, KtA/DW/CKT, and past lives to reach extremely effective DCs. Kick it to the curb, and there is no real reason to lose the small amount of DPS from mainstatting DEX.

Symbiont, however, has the past lives. He could main stat WIS, put Ins WIS on his trinket, possibly put WIS on his Slavers, and be rolling 80/90s on his QP. Why spend 5 seconds killing a wisp when it can be done instantly? The same efforts will also help make your Unbalancing Strike more effective as you're lacking a Vertigo item (or Eagle Claw's shattering if you roll that). And, of course, help push your other DCs to "no-fail" on more targets.

I personally am going WIS.

@RS-Makk: There are multiple sources for SP
Ship 25
Past Life - 120 available here
Enhancements - a pure Monk can get up to 120 from Harper, though going for just SP is a waste
Epic Destiny trees - though Legendary Dreadnaught is the heavily suggested tree, which comes with no SP
Items - There is over 700 SP available in items, which can be expanded with LGS bonuses. However with only caring about cocoon and KtA for SP spending, no reason to put any off gear to fit it. 250 augment is all I use.
Reaper Trees - The caster tree gives nice chunks of SP, and as most of it comes from cores, you don't even need to be in Reaper mode for it. This would be one of the last trees to spend points in... though you'll still want to eventually for the WIS, extra activations, and the SP. 12 AP into the caster tree would net you 4 WIS, 100 SP, another reaper activation, and 10 spellpower for FOL/Cocoon, which I consider the "sweet spot".

Symbiot has 415 from the following:
120 past life
25 ship
250 augment
20 Harper Enchantment (Harper Agent enhancement taken for the +1 weapon enhancement bonus, but comes with 20 SP as well)

[Symbiont]

Not a bad LGS item, as that dex skill is 1 point of hide away from giving a full 6 SA damage, which translates to 38 damage with 326 MP.

One thing you can do to help with accuracy is to be applying destruction - full destruction stacks equates to 30 Accuracy for everyone in party. Eagle Claw attack is a good way to apply it. If you can't afford the skill, then there's the Deconstructor augment. There's multiple ways you can give yourself Good bypass: flipping Cannith Crafted to boots (they too can have Ins CM, but not hamp sadly) and wearing Ravenloft trinket. Crafting LGS bypass clickies. Simply just using Scraps or another duality swap with good when that bypass is needed. As for the Deconstructor augment, I might try that right when I log in to see how well this performs versus bosses.

Another good point is Completionist feat vs Sneak of Shadows vs Precision. SoS feat is indeed a strong burst, but only lasts 3 minutes per rest. Completionist gives +2 to all skills and abilities, which is +1 damage and +3 to hide (which is +1 SA) permanently, along with +1 to DCs (+2 if that is enough Int on KtA), +3 UMD, +1 to all saves, 30 HP, etc. To me, Completionist wins over SoS. SoS vs Precision is a bit tougher. I like CE as the 20 PRR and 20+ AC bonuses is strong, but the accuracy struggle is real for Reaper bosses. But being able to plip a button for 100+ SA damage on said bosses is also strong, especially considering you still get SA on grazing. What are your thoughts?

I also find going hard into helpless damage interesting. I'm still a little peeved they kept Ninja Spy's No Mercy at 2 AP a pop. I find that a bit tough to chew, though you do get more SA die along the way. Also Henshin was giving more than just 30 MP from the 3 cores -- Quick Draw halves the time it takes from using an Action Boost to being able to attack, 6 PRR, 20 HP, a Ki Strike... and more points into Henshin could mean 3 more dodge cap or 25% neg absorption from Vistani. But I may play around with that to see how I like it.

Side Note - The concept of weapon swapping for a 10s buff is ambitious, especially considering the 1s nerf they put on swapping. While the 25% ds buff is strong, not sure if it is practical.

These are all actually excellent points. Armor Destruction was something I took a look at, but the way I currently have my APs allocated won't allow me to acquire this - as much as I'd like to utilize it. It'd be something mainly for bosses, and most trash wouldn't live long enough to stack enough of this - but your point was most likely regarding bosses, and I might do a little something with this on a different split. Precision vs Sneak of Shadows vs Completionist was probably the most difficult choice I've had to make on this split; burst DPS for bosses versus much less grazing on all mobs, versus more DCs/hide/stats universally. On my current aasimar though, I disregarded SoS and Comp and ended up grabbing Precision.

In terms of Combat Expertise versus Precision: this was an especially difficult choice since Combat Expertise is a prerequisite and an absolute required pick, and Precision would take up a valuable feat slot. Due to how accuracy and % to hit works though, started running this, and I haven't been disappointed. Quick Strike became absolutely frustrating after the 1 second cooldown, you can probably imagine how much swapping/reswapping between weapons and items aggravated me (considering how I actually used to swap two items for intelligence; I had both the Legendary Phasecloak and a Sentient Weapon with +7 intelligence in filigrees to get the most out of it) :D

I maxed helpless damage since trash clearing is so stupidly instantaneous when everything is CC'd. I've seen base hits of 700 versus helpless mobs in R10, and base hits of almost 8,000 outside of reaper (with almost 50k crits ;)); and that's without synergizing No Mercy in tandem with Brutality. Even though an instakiller can take care of a lot of the mobs, with helpless amplification to this extent - with this much power behind every strike - you vaporize quite a few mobs between cooldowns. I've played with both max MP and max Helpless setups, and I personally find the performance to favor maxed helpless. Obviously boss DPS is considerably lower, but the difference in helpless hits is colossal.



As for DEX vs WIS, there is an important reason for WIS: DCs. My opinion is it's all about Quivering Palm. With 34 tactics available in gear alone, you can reach extremely effective DCs on a secondary or tertiary stat. However QP does not benefit from gear, so it takes main-stat WIS, KtA/DW/CKT, and past lives to reach extremely effective DCs. Kick it to the curb, and there is no real reason to lose the small amount of DPS from mainstatting DEX.

Symbiont, however, has the past lives. He could main stat WIS, put Ins WIS on his trinket, possibly put WIS on his Slavers, and be rolling 80/90s on his QP. Why spend 5 seconds killing a wisp when it can be done instantly? The same efforts will also help make your Unbalancing Strike more effective as you're lacking a Vertigo item (or Eagle Claw's shattering if you roll that). And, of course, help push your other DCs to "no-fail" on more targets.

Now, I'm actually considering doing something completely different; the potency of a truly high Quivering Palm is truly devastating (which you're obviously aware of), and I'm debating on taking a step in a different direction with this monk. A Wis dump monk is definitely much more viable than a Dex dump - I specialized this build for the ravenloft raids and quests, mainly - where lots of stuff was not prone to be affected by your stuns or QP, and to where you didn't need a tremendously high Jade DC at all to CC anything. However, since I have all the ravenloft gear, here's what I'm thinking:

Instead of going 20 Monk, despite its potential and current over-performance compared to other melees, a build specced heavier for maxed QP seems very attractive; 18 Monk 1 Fighter 1 FvS (or something along these lines) might be a better way to go about this. Maxing wisdom (with the new FvS Divine Might that adds Wisdom to your DCs/damage instead of its intelligence like its counterpart) grants way more DCs. This minimizes the amount of gear swapping, scales the bonus to damage higher (since wisdom would be much higher than intelligence), and gives you additional feats to offset the lack of freedom after the essentials are taken. Since the Shintao capstone can't be acquired, you don't need to dump 41 points into it; on top of this, you'd only need to reasonably dump 3 points into Warpriest to grab Divine Might, versus the 7 for KTA. You lose 25 MP/+2[W], though you have more free APs to dump into henshin. You'd ultimately net less DPS, but as you indicated, it's two digits (maybe 100+ish) off of a four digit number. Speaking of which, I'd honestly expect standing QP DC to enter the three digits in Dreadnought - and if you can instakill a mob every 6 seconds with a DC that large, this could be more worth it overall. I'd have to play with the AP setup quite a bit.

As for incorporating a lot of these features into 20 Monk (without a class split change), it's something I'm heavily considering. I'll probably burn an ETR and see how maxing DCs on an Aasimar turns out, and if it's noticeable enough in R10s outside of ravenloft, it's something I might stick with. I've been running nearly the same build for quite a while now, and this could be a very nice change of pace :)


So after reading this post, it clicked that I had seen your name before. 2 man Strahd. I was wondering what the chances were that I would ever see the build for that Monk, and here it is. I have always been a Barbarian, for over 9 years now actually. This though, is the turning point for me, as the game has become largely solo driven. I applaud your effort in making this build, and will most definitely be giving it a shot. One question tough, why make it Dex based, and not Wis??

Thanks! Drawing answered this before I did, though it's mainly my greed for DPS. I'll probably end up doing wisdom to increase DCs higher, but on my current Aasimar monk, I actually maxed Con to reinforce my ability to take hits in R10.

[DrawingGuy]

18 Monk / 1 FvS / 1 x is a split I like very much, though the capstone loss is more noticeable than a DEX vs WIS mainstat. There are options I like more than Fighter:

1 Rogue or Arti gives you trapping. Arti gives you a dog and a +1 enh spell, but prefer Rogue as it comes with a SA die and more skill points (with Hide as a class stat)
1 Wizard for the 10% AC with Imp Mage armor + Quicken (speed up cocoon) or Mental (sp and 1% crit chance for heals) + Shield spell

Fighter is still very nice for the extra feat and 3 ABs, but I'd rather take trapping or survival over those.

As for AP spends, I consider 35 AP to be the "minimum" AP spend within Shintao so you can get Empty Hand Mastery, Rise, and Void. That gives 45 AP to spend.
4-5 into Aasimar to get the 10% HP depending (11 racial PLs + 1 tome lets you spend only 4, but you'll need 5 as you didn't pay the silly special edition price)
3 into War Soul. I'd only go 3 as a 1 minute timer slots nicely with your Veil and Tenser durations for a consistent buff cycle, but 1 more would net you 2 minute duration

That leaves 37-38 AP to spend as your build dictates.

Rogue Examples
4 AP (+12 bonus racial) aasimar, 23 Henshin, 12 Ninja, 35 Shintao, 3 War Soul, 3 Vistani (3 Vistani nets 25% neg absorption + 3 PRR/MRR, though this AP can be spread if you can't afford due to racial)
Alternative No Mercy spend: 4 AP Aasimar, 12 Henshin (or 11 if you need the 1 point for Aasimar), 26 Ninja, 35 Shintao, 3 War Soul.

Wizard Examples:
4 AP Aasimar, 4 Eldritch, 21 Henshin, 12 Ninja, 35 Shintao, 3 War Soul - 1 AP leftover, in your case likely Aasimar
No Mercy spend: 4 AP Aasimar, 4 Eldritch, 6 Henshin, 26 Ninja, 35 Shintao, 3 War Soul. 2 AP can go wherever you want - SA die, Ki Strike in Henshin, 1 Aasimar + Warsoul, etc.

Fighter Examples:
4 AP Aasimar, 7 Kensai, 12 Henshin, 12 Ninja, 35 Shintao, 3 Warsoul, 6 Vistani - 1 AP leftover
No Mercy spend: 4 AP Aasimar, 7 Kensai, 1 Henshin, 26 Ninja, 35 Shintao, 3 Warsoul, 3 Vistani - 1 AP leftover

Warlock Examples: (Soul Eater's Taint the Blood means your Dire > WWA preps everything for QPs)
4 AP Aasimar, 2 Soul Eater, 21 Henshin, 12 Ninja, 35 Shintao, 3 War Soul, 3 Vistani
No Mercy spend: 4 AP Aasimar, 2 Eldritch, 6 Henshin, 26 Ninja, 35 Shintao, 3 War Soul, 3 Vistani - 1 AP leftover


Most of my racial PLs have been 1 Rogue, 1 FvS splash as the Rogue splash means trapping bonus. My final life, though, is almost guaranteed to be pure. Not counting PL efforts, she has been stubbornly pure Monk through all the ups and downs of Monk. We'll see if the FvS new tree has anything that I can't pass up from a 1 or 2 level splash.

[Kodwraith]

Wow that's a lot of gear.

Why NightfallRing? Just the +Int? You've already got Insightful Deadly from KTA, Deadly from the gloves and +reflex from the avenger set unless i'm missing something.

So DrawingGuy's proposed layout would be this:

Silver Set:
Armor: Disciple of Dawn (PRR / Parrying / Fort / Profane)
Cloak: Shadowhail Cloak (Ghostly / Deception / Hide / MS)
Belt: Cutcord (Dex / Qual Dex / Qual Dodge / Blurry)

Adherent Set:
Trinket: Echo of Ravenkind (CON / Ins Deception / Holy Strike)
Bracers: Lore Fueled PackBanner (Ins Con / Ins Doublestrike / PRR)
Neck: Fleetfoot Necklace (NaturalArmor / WIS)
Gloves: Molten Silver (DoubleStrike / AP / Deadly)
RingA: Nightfall (Ins Int / Ins Deadly / PRR / Deadly)

Other:
Boots: CC: Dodge / Str / Ins Dex
RingB: Slaver's False Life / Accuracy / Stunning / Qual Con
Goggles: Concentration / Melee Alacrity / Ins Wis
Helm: Executioner's (Seeker / Ins Deception / +5% dmg buff)


So the basic idea is you get one degree of freedom to choose the last Adherent set piece (a ring or boots) and you need 1 CC item for dodge and it pretty much has to be boots or a ring. I came up with this:

Avenger:
Armor: Strahd Cloth: PRR / Ghostly / Profane / Deathblock
Cloak: Strahd Cloak: MRR / Deception
Belt: Cutcord: DEX / Qual DEX / Blurry / Qual Dodge
Adherent:
Gloves: Molten Silver (DS / AP / Deadly)
Necklace: Fleetfoot (WIS / stuff)
Trinket: Echo of Raven (CON / true Seeing / holy)
Boots: FleetFoot Greaves: (Speed / FoM / Nat armor)
Wrist: Lore Fueled PackBanner (Ind Doublestrike / Ins Con / PRR)
Other:
Helm: Executioner’s (Seeker / Ins Deception)
Ring: Prowess
Ring: Slavers: Fort / Resistance / Stunning / Qual WIS
Goggles: Concentration / xxx / Ins Wis

Basically missing Ins Dex for +8 mp. Note that the Strahd armor is not all that useful since MRR is not all that useful, so wearing the regular named armor in the set and getting the first slaver's slot back gets rid of Fort frees up for False Life.

[zurnad]

You can check my "Faceless Assassin" built for max quivering palm DC with easy debuff synergy.
And comments welcome.

[DrawingGuy]

I never tested, so didn't realize that Ins Deadly and KtA damage did not stack. I just assumed that since Ins Tactics from KtA stacked with Ins Tactics items, the damage would as well. Looking through the forums saw a post from you, so assuming you actually tested this.

I figured the Ins Deadly, Ins INT, and the Ref 16 is why Symbiont ran the ring (he didn't have the boots previously that also gave Ref). Even without the ins deadly, the Ins INT is still a good reason, though Perfect Pinnacle would be actively better. Perfect Pinnacle would allow you to slot Vertigo on your slavers for much more reliable Unbalancing Strike application along with auto-trip procs that can help in high reapers. The only real question is that worth needing to swap two items for KtA usage instead of one? Pre-swap nerf that would have been no issue... now? Though if you're willing to, there is the very good option of the second swap being a named main-hand with 7 INT filigrees and a LGS offhand with +7 Ins INT and +2 Exc INT. That would make the effort much more worthwhile as you would have 6 higher INT than the single swap option while gaining the use of Perfect Pinnacle. Or a "healery" option could be deathwarden ring for 29% pos crit chance -- give up Accuracy 28 on the Slavers and you could load 185 POS power. And as you can always clicky or pot haste, you could put the Accuracy on your goggles instead of melee alacrity. Though that is still giving up some DPS losing the LGS goggles. More food for thought.

As for gear flexibility for Adherent Set, it is Boots or Trinket. Ring does not have a dodge option, so to give it up for Prowess or something else while still going for the set bonus will cost you dodge... and that matters in Reaper. One of your rings needs to be Adherent if you want an effective set bonus as they have much better options than goggles for melee Monks.


As for gear options, this is what I am suggesting for a max DPS/DC option and is what I'll likely be going for:
Goggles: LGS Unconcious 128/Ins Hide 11/Ins Hide 6 - Good Weapons active augment
Helm: Legendary Executioner's Helm
Necklace: Fleetfoot Necklace
Trinket: CC - Dodge 15, Heal Amp 61, Ins WIS 7
Cloak: Legendary Shadowhail Cloak (Legendary Phasecloak swap for KtA)
Belt: Legendary Cutcord
Gloves: Molten Silver Gauntlets
Boots: Legendary Flightfoot Greaves
Bracers: Legendary Lore-Fueled Packbanner
Ring 1: Legendary Ring of Nightfall
Ring 2: Slavers - CON 17, Accuracy 28, Stunning 20, Qual WIS 4
Armor: Legendary Disciple of the Dawn
Main Weapon: Duality (Deconstructor and Endless Night slotted)

A "tank mode" setup could be achieved by swapping to:
Goggles: CC - Concentration 22, Ins Concentration 11, Ins WIS 7
Trinket: CC - Dodge 15, Heal Amp 61, Ins PRR 18 (or DEX 7 for 3 AC, Reflex, accuracy, and damage)


Non-LGS setup:
Goggles: Cannith Crafted - Concentration 22, Accuracy 23, Ins WIS 7
Helm: Legendary Executioner's Helm
Necklace: Fleetfoot Necklace
Trinket: Echo of Ravenkind
Cloak: Legendary Shadowhail Cloak (Legendary Phasecloak swap for KtA)
Belt: Legendary Cutcord
Gloves: Molten Silver Gauntlets
Boots: CC - Dodge 15, STR 15, Ins DEX 7 *or* Boots of Blessed Travels (covers Haste and FOM at the cost of DEX and STR)
Bracers: Legendary Lore-Fueled Packbanner
Ring 1: Legendary Ring of Nightfall
Ring 2: Slavers - False Life 68, Devotion 185, Stunning 20, Qual WIS 4
Armor: Legendary Disciple of the Dawn
Main Weapon: Duality (Deconstructor and Endless Night slotted)

This setup loses 128 unconscious range making 1-shot death riskier, ~30 SA damage on a properly buffed toon, and 61 Heal Amp. It gains more powerful healing (which helps counter the hamp loss for self healing, and if you flip on a LGS, the 70 doesn't stack with the 61 anyways), more HP, passive good bypass, more Ki Shout without swapping, and DEX. The LGS option is stronger IMO, but those that don't have the LGS gear farmed or don't want to can use this to cover it. To me, Accuracy clearly wins over Melee Alacrity as alacrity can easily be covered by a buff whereas the Accuracy is not.


I do see two main points of contention with these gear setups:
- Nightfall Ring vs Perfect Pinnacle. Nightfall can save you a swap, which is important as the 1s nerf makes it clunky, but also costs you 1-2 KtA tactics, auto-trip, 2 stunning DCs (on top of the KtA tactics loss), and 20 Vertigo DCs. ** Edit. Swapped my gear lists back to Nightfall as Symbiont's testing confirms the Ins Deadly and KtA stack, so while a double swap would yield superior DCs, and pinnacle with vertigo on slavers would lead towards much better Unbalancing Strikes, double swapping is currently too clunky.
- 4 Quality WIS vs 4 Quality CON. This is 2 DCs + 2 WILL + 2 AC vs 60 HP + 2 FORT. I would choose the WIS, but both are important, so up to you. A soul stone can't CC/QP.

[Symbiont]

Why NightfallRing? Just the +Int? You've already got Insightful Deadly from KTA, Deadly from the gloves and +reflex from the avenger set unless i'm missing something.

Insightful Deadly from Legendary Ring of Nightfall stacks with KTA; I tested this a month or so ago. Static target, no vulnerability stacks, and deliberately scaled down the amount of total Melee Power I had to pinpoint a difference. Both tests with and without the Insightful Deadly had the same amount of Intelligence from KTA. The damage does indeed stack with each other; this, with the Intelligence boost, makes it an extremely strong ring slot.


I never tested, so didn't realize that Ins Deadly and KtA damage did not stack. I just assumed that since Ins Tactics from KtA stacked with Ins Tactics items, the damage would as well. Looking through the forums saw a post from you, so assuming you actually tested this.

I figured the Ins Deadly, Ins INT, and the Ref 16 is why Symbiont ran the ring (he didn't have the boots previously that also gave Ref). Even without the ins deadly, the Ins INT is still a good reason, though Perfect Pinnacle would be actively better. Perfect Pinnacle would allow you to slot Vertigo on your slavers for much more reliable Unbalancing Strike application along with auto-trip procs that can help in high reapers. The only real question is that worth needing to swap two items for KtA usage instead of one? Pre-swap nerf that would have been no issue... now? Though if you're willing to, there is the very good option of the second swap being a named main-hand with 7 INT filigrees and a LGS offhand with +7 Ins INT and +2 Exc INT. That would make the effort much more worthwhile as you would have 6 higher INT than the single swap option while gaining the use of Perfect Pinnacle. Or a "healery" option could be deathwarden ring for 29% pos crit chance -- give up Accuracy 28 on the Slavers and you could load 185 POS power. And as you can always clicky or pot haste, you could put the Accuracy on your goggles instead of melee alacrity. Though that is still giving up some DPS losing the LGS goggles. More food for thought.

As for gear flexibility for Adherent Set, it is Boots or Trinket. Ring does not have a dodge option, so to give it up for Prowess or something else while still going for the set bonus will cost you dodge... and that matters in Reaper. One of your rings needs to be Adherent if you want an effective set bonus as they have much better options than goggles for melee Monks.


As for gear options, this is what I am suggesting for a max DPS/DC option and is what I'll likely be going for:
Goggles: LGS Unconcious 128/Ins Hide 11/Ins Hide 6 - Good Weapons active augment
Helm: Legendary Executioner's Helm
Necklace: Fleetfoot Necklace
Trinket: CC - Dodge 15, Heal Amp 61, Ins WIS 7
Cloak: Legendary Shadowhail Cloak (Legendary Phasecloak swap for KtA)
Belt: Legendary Cutcord
Gloves: Molten Silver Gauntlets
Boots: Legendary Flightfoot Greaves
Bracers: Legendary Lore-Fueled Packbanner
Ring 1: Legendary Perfect Pinnacle
Ring 2: Slavers - CON 17, Accuracy 28, Vertigo 20, Qual WIS 4
Armor: Legendary Disciple of the Dawn
Main Weapon: Duality (Deconstructor and Endless Night slotted)
KtA swap: Whatever (haven't decided - dream would be if a proper INT/Qual INT mainhand was made so Phasecloak would be unneeded) with +7 INT Filigrees / LGS Int 15, Ins INT 7, Exc INT 2

A "tank mode" setup could be achieved by swapping to:
Goggles: CC - Concentration 22, Ins Concentration 11, Ins WIS 7
Trinket: CC - Dodge 15, Heal Amp 61, Ins PRR 18 (or DEX 7 for 3 AC, Reflex, accuracy, and damage)


Non-LGS setup:
Goggles: Cannith Crafted - Concentration 22, Accuracy 23, Ins WIS 7
Helm: Legendary Executioner's Helm
Necklace: Fleetfoot Necklace
Trinket: Echo of Ravenkind
Cloak: Legendary Shadowhail Cloak (Legendary Phasecloak swap for KtA)
Belt: Legendary Cutcord
Gloves: Molten Silver Gauntlets
Boots: CC - Dodge 15, STR 15, Ins DEX 7 (or Ins Combat Mastery if you're still struggling on tactics)
Bracers: Legendary Lore-Fueled Packbanner
Ring 1: Legendary Perfect Pinnacle
Ring 2: Slavers - False Life 68, Devotion 185, Vertigo 20, Qual WIS 4
Armor: Legendary Disciple of the Dawn
Main Weapon: Duality (Deconstructor and Endless Night slotted)
KtA swap: Whatever with +7 INT Filigrees / LGS Int 15, Ins INT 7, Exc INT 2

This setup loses 128 unconscious range making 1-shot death riskier, ~30 SA damage on a properly buffed toon, and 61 Heal Amp. It gains more powerful healing (which helps counter the hamp loss for self healing, and if you flip on a LGS, the 70 doesn't stack with the 61 anyways), more HP, passive good bypass, more Ki Shout without swapping, and DEX. The LGS option is stronger IMO, but those that don't have the LGS gear farmed or don't want to can use this to cover it. To me, Accuracy clearly wins over Melee Alacrity as alacrity can easily be covered by a buff whereas the Accuracy is not.


I do see two main points of contention with these gear setups:
- Nightfall Ring vs Perfect Pinnacle. Nightfall can save you a swap, which is important as the 1s nerf makes it clunky, but also costs you 1-2 KtA tactics, auto-trip, 2 stunning DCs (on top of the KtA tactics loss), and 20 Vertigo DCs.
- 4 Quality WIS vs 4 Quality CON. This is 2 DCs + 2 WILL + 2 AC vs 60 HP + 2 FORT. I would choose the WIS, but both are important, so up to you. A soul stone can't CC/QP.

Yeah, I agree that the LGS setup is stronger; though I should also mention that I didn't include all of the gear that I periodically swap to in the spreadsheet. I usually swap to Legendary Mantle of the Dwarven Commander prior to beating on bosses if they save my initial Unbalancing Strike. I might find a +20/+22 item to swap to instead, as I'm swapping an item anyway. Deconstructor is something I'm definitely going to look into. Whenever I get more larges, going to craft Good Weapons as an active and replace Ruby of Good with Deconstructor. Good call on this one :D If the 1-second delay gets removed, I had plans on running Nystul's Mystical Defense instead of Prowess - and swapping to Prowess only prior to action-boosting. Most of my deaths are from magical damage, and mitigating as much of it as possible is essential. To meet this MRR cap, and to squeeze in a little more DPS, I was also planning on removing the Unconcious Range +128 entirely and replacing it with Hide +22. From there, can swap Legendary Shadowhail Cloak for The Invisible Cloak of Strahd; and then Legendary Disciple of the Dawn for Patience Through Peril, for slightly more sneak dps.

If I were to do this, I'd be taking dangerous steps away from physical survivability to lean towards magical absorption. I figure I can stomach -9 saves, as I'm already not failing anything unless it's a 1 (my saves are even higher on Aasimar than Half-Orc), though the -9 AC and so forth will hurt. I can simply augment a Heavy Fortification sapphire to offset the loss of Legendary Disciple of the Dawn. I'd be more prone to die from physical damage, though MRR and absorption from the filigrees themselves provide a much-needed barrier versus magical. I'd get +100 HP from using this 5-Piece set anyway; all of which make the drawbacks seem worthwhile for the benefits. All of this depends on the 1-second cooldown being eliminated, though, as I'd lose too much time off of the 10-second Prowess window due to weapon-swapping.

[DrawingGuy]

I've thought long and hard about fitting Nystul's Mystical Defense - 100 HP and 40 MRR is no small thing, but then I thought about what I died to the most:
- Horrid Wilting from Fear Reapers is untyped, and would get no benefit from more MRR. Only bags of HP can save you from this, which the 100 HP would help on... but is that worth 100 MP?
- Necro Damage spells -- this is why I'm keen on the 3 AP spend into Vistani as that is 25% neg absorb to counter this rather than Nystul's.
- Force burst and other non-Shield blocked force spells -- though sadly another thing not helped by MRR
- Rays. Many of these spells have no save, so are guaranteed to shoot your face. However it is very rare to have these on bosses, so I find CC/QP to be an acceptable option to handle these.

There is no question it would help, but if one were to be picked, I think Prowess wins. However there is always the option of both. Though eating into your Fort I think is a mistake - you're going to get crit quite a lot with only 100ish fort, and I think that will lead to more deaths than spells do currently. Instead of changing armor to get Ghostly, drop your Endless Night augment and slot a Ghostbane. 202% fort and 9 saves is better imo than an augment that only randomly helps with trash killing (which is not something you struggle with really anyways).

Another option for getting MRR is to go with the Echo of Ravenkind trinket and slot 45 sheltering on the Slavers, then using some dodge boots. If you truly want to avoid the usage of Haste pots/clickies, there is always Boots of Blessed Travels. Those would give you speed and FOM at the cost of the 7 DEX or Ins Combat. The only real loss of that setup would be the 61 HAMP and 7 WIS, but feel those would be smaller losses overall than the cloak/LGS switchup.

[Symbiont]

I've thought long and hard about fitting Nystul's Mystical Defense - 100 HP and 40 MRR is no small thing, but then I thought about what I died to the most:
- Horrid Wilting from Fear Reapers is untyped, and would get no benefit from more MRR. Only bags of HP can save you from this, which the 100 HP would help on... but is that worth 100 MP?
- Necro Damage spells -- this is why I'm keen on the 3 AP spend into Vistani as that is 25% neg absorb to counter this rather than Nystul's.
- Force burst and other non-Shield blocked force spells -- though sadly another thing not helped by MRR
- Rays. Many of these spells have no save, so are guaranteed to shoot your face. However it is very rare to have these on bosses, so I find CC/QP to be an acceptable option to handle these.

There is no question it would help, but if one were to be picked, I think Prowess wins. However there is always the option of both. Though eating into your Fort I think is a mistake - you're going to get crit quite a lot with only 100ish fort, and I think that will lead to more deaths than spells do currently. Instead of changing armor to get Ghostly, drop your Endless Night augment and slot a Ghostbane. 202% fort and 9 saves is better imo than an augment that only randomly helps with trash killing (which is not something you struggle with really anyways).

Another option for getting MRR is to go with the Echo of Ravenkind trinket and slot 45 sheltering on the Slavers, then using some dodge boots. If you truly want to avoid the usage of Haste pots/clickies, there is always Boots of Blessed Travels. Those would give you speed and FOM at the cost of the 7 DEX or Ins Combat. The only real loss of that setup would be the 61 HAMP and 7 WIS, but feel those would be smaller losses overall than the cloak/LGS switchup.

My plan was to swap to Prowess every time before I used an action boost, and then back to Nystul's; since Prowess is sustained outside of the sentient weapon, it'd be almost identical, but with the increased MRR cap. If I find that I'm getting crit at all by mobs that are not Beast Mark/Infernal Pact/etc, I'll just go back to Legendary Disciple of the Dawn with a Ghostbane augment; no harm no foul there. I'd lose 5 Hide and Endless Night doing this, but that's negligible compared to an otherwise loss of practicality. Echo of Ravenkind is something I may very well eventually incorporate, though it appears to be bugged in several ways atm. I currently run Legendary Flightfoot Greaves on my aasimar (saves me blinding speed and grants FoM), but that wouldn't solve the dodge problem if some other gear were shuffled. I'm in too much of a farming mindset to think too heavily about gear atm - amber temple is life :D I'll reply back with my thoughts whenever I eventually decide to throw things around again. Going to take a lot of these things into account and see how they ultimately fair versus the setup I've been currently running.

As a side note, I'm relatively certain that I'll have reaper wings in at least 4-5 days, gonna keep endlessly grinding :cool:

[Kodwraith]

Insightful Deadly from Legendary Ring of Nightfall stacks with KTA; I tested this a month or so ago. Static target, no vulnerability stacks, and deliberately scaled down the amount of total Melee Power I had to pinpoint a difference. Both tests with and without the Insightful Deadly had the same amount of Intelligence from KTA. The damage does indeed stack with each other; this, with the Intelligence boost, makes it an extremely strong ring slot.


Oh wow, you just blew my mind. I had not tested, I had been going off forum posts where the universal consensus seemed to be dmg did not stack but tactics did. That ring suddenly looks way way better.

Looks like I'll be farming ravenloft more.

[Ew_vastano]

Hi i love my monk (Aobhiel is a halfling monkcher) however i am in the process of building a aasimar pure monk
how well would this build work as aasimar?
cheers
vast

[DrawingGuy]

The build and gearing is not dependent on race, though note that his AP splits is with 11 free Racials from past lives as are mine. You would need to make adjustments if you don't have that.

Half-Orc: Symbiont takes this for the 20% helpless damage. It is about going all-in on trash DPS.

Aasimar: This race gives DCs from being WIS based, Heal Amp, self healing with racial LOH, and either survival with 10% HP or DPS with free vuln stacking.

Human: Humans get the same DCs as any WIS race due to 1 core + 3 Action Boost to WIS, Heal Amp, extra feat, extra skill points.

Elf: Percentage based Accuracy and DEX for damage. Add in the dragonmark for +5 Hide which has synergy with Ethereal and a displacement SLA, and it makes a nice DPS boost along with a survival boost for those that are not loaded with displacement clickies. Elf would be more accurate in CE stance than someone in Precision stance allowing for defenses without the DPS loss to grazing hits. Lastly if you do a 1 Rogue / 1 FVS splash type build, the auto-find traps is awesome.

Half-Elf: If you don't need the displacement or the trap finding, half-elf is even better than elf as it gives HAMP, the +3 WIS from ABs, and some interesting Dilettante options (Rogue will give up to 3d6 SA, Ranger can give you 10% offhand to bring you to 100% outside of Wind, Cleric can let you use Heal scrolls and Raise/Res with little to no UMD along with another +1 WIS option, Fighter can give +2 tactics)


Human used to be heads and shoulders above other races for Monks - between the feat, getting +4 WIS cheaply, and the old 20% damage stacking with Haste action boosts due to racial ABs being unique, Humans gave you full DCs and superior DPS with little AP spending and a feat cherry on top. Now that racial Action Boost uniqueness has shared timers and even counters for similar types, that superior power was lost. Then there is the fact that you can earn free racial APs, meaning that what a race tree can give you actually matters rather than just base race features which was Human's shining point.

Any race will have its pros and cons. No matter what you pick, you can get something useful out of the tree, so it's more of a question of "what do you want?" rather than "what is best?". I personally favor Aasimar, but I also have racial PLs to let me snag all cores and get the Ascendant bond cheaply. For those that have no free racial APs, it does start to go back to what has the strongest base racial bonuses with not being able to afford going into the tree deeply. Human still has that cake with the feat and skill points with 6 AP giving +4 wis and an action boost (which can keep your Prowess boost rolling in longer quests), though the Aasimar self healing and WIS only costs 7 AP.

[Razor_Wit]

This looks very appealing, thanks for posting it. Would you suggest someone attempt it who has 0/11 racial ap's? If so, please mention where you would make cuts in AP's. I've seen some Monks recently doing disgusting damage. What's changed recently? Monk dps dominance seems to have gained some REAL traction all of a sudden.

[Symbiont]

This looks very appealing, thanks for posting it. Would you suggest someone attempt it who has 0/11 racial ap's? If so, please mention where you would make cuts in AP's. I've seen some Monks recently doing disgusting damage. What's changed recently? Monk dps dominance seems to have gained some REAL traction all of a sudden.

If you have 0 rAPs, go human for the extra feat. Allocate your enhancements exactly the same, but don't invest anything into racial. You will have 5 extra points to spend, dump these into Henshin for +10 Melee Power from the second core. My character was just deleted, so I won't be able to log in to update anything substantial in the spreadsheet. However, I'll still reply in here and so forth.

[Razor_Wit]

If you have 0 rAPs, go human for the extra feat. Allocate your enhancements exactly the same, but don't invest anything into racial. You will have 5 extra points to spend, dump these into Henshin for +10 Melee Power from the second core. My character was just deleted, so I won't be able to log in to update anything substantial in the spreadsheet. However, I'll still reply in here and so forth.

So sorry to hear that. Thanks, i'll be watching the thread and perhaps comment on progress.

[RS-Makk]

If you have 0 rAPs, go human for the extra feat. Allocate your enhancements exactly the same, but don't invest anything into racial. You will have 5 extra points to spend, dump these into Henshin for +10 Melee Power from the second core. My character was just deleted, so I won't be able to log in to update anything substantial in the spreadsheet. However, I'll still reply in here and so forth.

For the extra feat (if human) - Precision?

[Ellihor]

Capped my monk recently, missing the raid gear, but I could fill some roles with crafted. But even considering if I had the gear you are using, and racial completionist + the racial PLs I am missing, there is no way I am getting even close to your values in the screenshot. I mean, 68 INT, seriously? I get it that is with swap item on, but I myself am on 60. And 79 CON? Don't know what I miss. I assume you are heavly buffed for that ss, and using some instances/items that are not the normal. 155 hide... guess that is counting the rogue pl active.

Can you post a screenshot of when you just logged in, turned combat expertise on and take the print? Just to know how off I am in my character.

Edit: nevermind, just read above you got deleted. Anyways, can someone do this? I am pretty sure you have some friends who weren't deleted and that are 100% optimized and can post.

[Symbiont]

Capped my monk recently, missing the raid gear, but I could fill some roles with crafted. But even considering if I had the gear you are using, and racial completionist + the racial PLs I am missing, there is no way I am getting even close to your values in the screenshot. I mean, 68 INT, seriously? I get it that is with swap item on, but I myself am on 60. And 79 CON? Don't know what I miss. I assume you are heavly buffed for that ss, and using some instances/items that are not the normal. 155 hide... guess that is counting the rogue pl active.

Can you post a screenshot of when you just logged in, turned combat expertise on and take the print? Just to know how off I am in my character.

Edit: nevermind, just read above you got deleted. Anyways, can someone do this? I am pretty sure you have some friends who weren't deleted and that are 100% optimized and can post.

I took the screenshot in reaper, and I had Grim Barricade (no other trees at that time) just about maxed out. +4 con in reaper, with the according PRR and so forth (but no reaper mementos active). 155 Hide was with the Rogue PL active, and I used every reasonable buff (no cookies or Yugo pots) that I'd throw on myself prior to an endfight, which includes Tenser's, Touch the Void Dragon, etc. As I'm currently aasimar (or, was aasimar) with a different general allocation, there's not much I can accurately say for the stats, apart from the gear indicated in the spreadsheet; +2 Long Lasting Supreme Ability Elixirs (store-bought), +2 Potions of Insightful Ability, +7 tomes, and racial completionist were the only miscellaneous bonuses. Unfortunately, everyone I know who has optimized this build (or is almost there) also had their characters deleted. The few that are left are not racial completionist nor fully geared.

[Vish]

My character was just deleted, so...

well,
Kinda sorry to hear of your loss
I mean you come on here posting outrageous numbers
Then you and your buddies get deleted
I would say that's suspicious
Like, not to be believed suspicious

I just got done running a duality monk
And I saw awesomeness, but not super op,
Like numbers you've posted
So I guess it's too late to call shenanigans
Del.
If you others want to see some real numbers,
Check out theory crafting the celestial monk
I still got my toon

[Ellihor]

I took the screenshot in reaper, and I had Grim Barricade (no other trees at that time) just about maxed out. +4 con in reaper, with the according PRR and so forth (but no reaper mementos active). 155 Hide was with the Rogue PL active, and I used every reasonable buff (no cookies or Yugo pots) that I'd throw on myself prior to an endfight, which includes Tenser's, Touch the Void Dragon, etc. As I'm currently aasimar (or, was aasimar) with a different general allocation, there's not much I can accurately say for the stats, apart from the gear indicated in the spreadsheet; +2 Long Lasting Supreme Ability Elixirs (store-bought), +2 Potions of Insightful Ability, +7 tomes, and racial completionist were the only miscellaneous bonuses. Unfortunately, everyone I know who has optimized this build (or is almost there) also had their characters deleted. The few that are left are not racial completionist nor fully geared.

Ok thanks. Don't have a duality yet. Can I except damage to like double with it?

[Iriale]

Awesome dps and awesome build. Certainly an end game build that needs a lot of equipment and many past lives, but also impressive.

Thank you so much for sharing it.

In my language I would use a single word to describe your character: "animalico" :-) I've been thinking lately about making a monk's life. I will try your build with my character, although it will not be the same because I have fewer lives and less equipment. But surely it will be fun as well, although less effective than yours

[Iriale]

If you have 0 rAPs, go human for the extra feat. Allocate your enhancements exactly the same, but don't invest anything into racial. You will have 5 extra points to spend, dump these into Henshin for +10 Melee Power from the second core. My character was just deleted, so I won't be able to log in to update anything substantial in the spreadsheet. However, I'll still reply in here and so forth.
oh I had not read this. I am sorry. So many past lives, so much time spent on the character!

[DrawingGuy]

Take this with a grain of salt as I don't know the story behind his toon, but I suspect that the deletion has something to do with a recent post from Cordo and not anything to do with the damage numbers seen in his SS and videos. If true, I think it deserved, but doesn't devalue the effort that went into gearing his toon.

I still have 12 lives left to do on my own toon (9 racial, 3 iconic) and gearing to do -- though that's not that tough with most of it being from Ravenloft. I always planned on doing a "final build" post here, but my playtime is limited and I take breaks from the game to keep it fresh for me, so the addition of PLs has paced my playtime for the last few years. I'll be done someday... :p

@PMEllihor - Yes, Duality can easily double your damage. Between the base die getting a flat +6 bonus more than doubling the base damage die roll, as well as +2 die from Impact V, it is an amazing weapon. The DPS increase that came with Ravenloft was uneven, but the "winners" would be Monks with Duality + Spite and casters being given near max DCs and Spell pen to every school in a single easily obtained one-handed item. Went from struggling to balance DCs and DPS on my warlock to having everything, and feel that as a bigger power jump than even the huge jump Duality gave monks. But that's digressing the conversation here.

@Razor_Wit - I would still spend AP into the Human tree:
- 1 AP lets you get an Action boost, which considering the cheapness, is an absolute must. Back in the day of stacking racial/ED (or class) boosts, damage was the only way to go. Now I would suggest Skills during Heroic and Saves during Epic. Skills will help you with UMD while leveling, and is a good thing to have in your pocket until your UMD is up to snuff. Saves in Epics (beyond as a backup set of boosts to keep Prowess and LD bonuses going, which any boost could do) can save you from mechanics like Miior in Haunted Halls or any of the big lightning/fire hits that happen in certain raids.
- 3 more AP (4 total) will net you +3 WIS while under an Action Boost. You should always be under the benefit of an Action Boost in combat with this build, which means you get points of WIS for single AP spends rather than the 2 per that is normal. You could always go CON or DEX if your priorities are different than DCs.
- More can net you an additional +1 to stat, additional +3 stat boosts under an AB, and Heal Amp.

I'd definitely drop 4 AP into the Human tree for the Action Boost and +3 stat. Beyond that I would really only do if I had Racial PLs to fluff it up.

As for the feat, Precision is a very good option for that. I would suggest reading our gear discussions as changes could be made to easily drop Blinding Speed. There's a core 12 Monk feats for a Handwrap build that have been shared dozens of times. The remaining 2 (or 3 if Human/PDK) is where it is up to you. There are plenty of options, especially if you have past lives to add Completionist and Rogue SoS to the list, but can't really go wrong. Personally with a Human that is Scion of Ethereal, I'd go Completionist/Sneak of Shadows/Precision.

[Ellihor]

That's good news, but I think comparing to not morninglord it's not double, because it already is d6+4 if I'm not wrong. By the way, did I miss something, because the heat listed in the sheet seems to be missing met but he has 50

@drawing I'm almost sure can't use precision with ce stance. I have both atm because I miss the gloves with armor piercing so I turn on precision for boss when others have aggro (Wich is a problem I think I'll buy aggro reduction in ninja)

[DrawingGuy]

No, you cannot use CE and Precision at the same time - you would switch between depending on the situation. High AC target that you're getting grazing hits on? Use Precision. High Fort target preventing SA damage? Use Precision (after Destruction procs from either Eagle Claw or Deconstructor augment, you'll have 97% fort bypass with Precision). All other situations you roll CE. Pay attention to those grazing hits - people often underestimate how much damage is being lost to it.

However, as useful as Precision is, you are giving up 10% AC and 20 PRR when dropping CE and costing yourself a feat to take Precision. Because of this, I don't consider Precision a "core" Monk feat. So if you are dying due to the survival loss or would prefer to spend that feat differently, then there's no problem dropping it.

As for claims Duality essentially "doubling" damage, that was based on pre-ravenloft gear. Morninglord/Nightmother is inbetween.

Note: As tedious as the coffees from the Anniversary event are, they do give you a + or - 75% hate clicky. Just carry one of each and you can have a way to help keep or avoid gaining aggro without item or enhancement investment.

[Ellihor]

There is something really wrong with those screenshots. Even with the same gear, same feats, same enhancement, same PLs I would not reach those values.

I still want to see a breakdown of that INT, and with the rogue PL active I can't reach 150 hide like the ss. The only stat I can reach is DEX, because I am running an elf, but using crumblings atm and the gear you said you are using do not include insightful dexterity, so that's 7.

I understand you take separated pictures for each thing to make it more organized in the spreadsheet, but it makes wonder what's actually going to get those numbers. Specially when you don't want to make a breakdown for anything in the OP.

By the way, how are you getting 20 points from AC from armor? I use the same armor, same feats, same enh, and I get a bunch less (have to log in to see exactly, but I'm 100% sure it's not 20). Someone might think that value is exactly the same you get from epic mage armor... one might think things.

49% dodge huh?

How are you getting 20.8[W] on your wrap?

241 PRR without quality PRR and insightful PRR. Even counting maxxed grim barricade, I don't think I could get that (counting mists, max past lives. Breakdown please.

How are you getting 50 MRR without MRR item not even augment?

You show you have +150 to hit in the picture of the Duality in your inv, but in your videos you are with +150 on sneak attack, what means you actual to-hit is about 130. Confirmed by, one of your screenshots in the sheet wich is also showing +130 and your videos.

There are so many weird things going on, can you just give breakdown of everything useful? Start with the stats you listed in the OP. This is why I don't post screenshots when I post a build, they're useless for metagamers. Breakdown in the other hand is what we look for.

(if someone else is getting the same values and could do that the community will apreciate, because I think Symb isn't doing anything related to DDO anymore).

[Thoden]

There is something really wrong with those screenshots. Even with the same gear, same feats, same enhancement, same PLs I would not reach those values.

I still want to see a breakdown of that INT, and with the rogue PL active I can't reach 150 hide like the ss. The only stat I can reach is DEX, because I am running an elf, but using crumblings atm and the gear you said you are using do not include insightful dexterity, so that's 7.

I understand you take separated pictures for each thing to make it more organized in the spreadsheet, but it makes wonder what's actually going to get those numbers. Specially when you don't want to make a breakdown for anything in the OP.

By the way, how are you getting 20 points from AC from armor? I use the same armor, same feats, same enh, and I get a bunch less (have to log in to see exactly, but I'm 100% sure it's not 20). Someone might think that value is exactly the same you get from epic mage armor... one might think things.

49% dodge huh?

How are you getting 20.8[W] on your wrap?

241 PRR without quality PRR and insightful PRR. Even counting maxxed grim barricade, I don't think I could get that (counting mists, max past lives. Breakdown please.

How are you getting 50 MRR without MRR item not even augment?

You show you have +150 to hit in the picture of the Duality in your inv, but in your videos you are with +150 on sneak attack, what means you actual to-hit is about 130. Confirmed by, one of your screenshots in the sheet wich is also showing +130 and your videos.

There are so many weird things going on, can you just give breakdown of everything useful? Start with the stats you listed in the OP. This is why I don't post screenshots when I post a build, they're useless for metagamers. Breakdown in the other hand is what we look for.

(if someone else is getting the same values and could do that the community will apreciate, because I think Symb isn't doing anything related to DDO anymore).

Some of those things have been nerfed since he made the spreadsheet, but I assure you those numbers are real.

[Ellihor]

Some of those things have been nerfed since he made the spreadsheet, but I assure you those numbers are real.

I'm not doubting them, he made a ss after all. But he is not being clear about what he used to get them, buffs etc. It seems those pictures were not done with the build posted in OP. Why can't you explain something so simple like getting 20 ac points from armor?

[Vish]

Because he got deleted.
That's permanent death.
Don't show your face around here kinDa thing.

Ask those guys at omni how they build their monks

[Symbiont]

There is something really wrong with those screenshots. Even with the same gear, same feats, same enhancement, same PLs I would not reach those values.

I still want to see a breakdown of that INT, and with the rogue PL active I can't reach 150 hide like the ss. The only stat I can reach is DEX, because I am running an elf, but using crumblings atm and the gear you said you are using do not include insightful dexterity, so that's 7.

Intelligence Breakdown:
12 (Creation)
+7 (Tome)
+4 (Racial Completionist and Drow/Gnome intelligence racial PLs)
+2 (Profane Well-Rounded)
+2 (Ship Buff)
+19 (Intelligence)
+2 (Festive Intelligence)
+9 (Insightful Intelligence)
+4 (Quality Intelligence)
+5 (Touch the Void Dragon)
+2 (Long Lasting Elixir of Supreme Ability)
= 68 Intelligence

+7 (Sentient Weapon; seven different intelligence filigrees slotted as a weapon swap prior to KTA)
+2 (Reaper Helm)
+5 (Dire Thaumaturge)
+2 (Yugoloth Potions)
= 84 Potential Intelligence

As for the hide bonus, I don't remember the exact bonuses I had going, but there was an influx of self-buffs I used; most of which that raised skills. Assuming you have identical gear, Greater Heroism clickies/potions, Elite Spider Cult Mask (cosmetic clickie, +1 to all skills), Sneak of Shadows, the Shadowdancer Twist of Fate (Stealthy, +6 Hide) and so forth, your hide should be pretty close to this amount. Even if it hovers around 130-140, the difference in damage is almost negligible.


By the way, how are you getting 20 points from AC from armor? I use the same armor, same feats, same enh, and I get a bunch less (have to log in to see exactly, but I'm 100% sure it's not 20). Someone might think that value is exactly the same you get from epic mage armor... one might think things.

I genuinely can't pinpoint the source of the +20 Armor Bonus. Rest assured that I do not run Epic Mage Armor, though Tenser's Transformation may have something to do with this, as the armor specifies +14 Armor Bonus standing, and Tenser's provides a +6 Alchemical bonus. Whether or not this is incorporated directly into the Armor Bonus is what I'm unsure of, but this isn't an attempt to bloat numbers to inconsistent values for eye-candy.


49% dodge huh?

This is actually a mistake through my negligence; this should be 46%. Prior to taking a screenshot of enhancements, I was experimenting with a plethora of allocations. The screenshot of dodge was during a setup where I had Embrace the Void x3 (Henshin Mystic, +3 dodge cap) instead of Quick Strike. As I had already reincarnated out of the life by the time I realized that this was slightly off, I just disregarded it, as I didn't want to TR back to it to fix a 3% graphical error. You should normally be running 43% outside of reaper; the extra 3% is coming from Capstone + Tier 5s in Grim Barricade.


How are you getting 20.8[W] on your wrap? You show you have +150 to hit in the picture of the Duality in your inv, but in your videos you are with +150 on sneak attack, what means you actual to-hit is about 130. Confirmed by, one of your screenshots in the sheet wich is also showing +130 and your videos.

There was a bug that allowed glamored weapons and items to retain set bonuses. Pain and Suffering set added +2[W]; it reasonably stands at 17.75[W], as I also had Combat Brute active. The screenshot of the handwrap damage statistics was during combat, without any extra-rare super-short cookies or buffs active. With all Advancing Blow stacks accumulated, all relative and consistent buffs active simultaneously, and while beating a boss, that is the + to-hit you can expect the weapon to achieve.

The videos show inconsistent values, as the attack bonus fluctuates in two-digit amounts while fighting; so I decided to screenshot the weapon's potential profile versus bosses - where everything and anything incorporated into landing strikes versus high-value targets was at its pinnacle. It may have been more reasonable to screenshot the standing profile of the weapon (I might put standing and fully-buffed side-by-side in the next spreadsheet), but I don't believe in showing a standing value when it can be buffed to something much higher during combat, as you aren't "just standing" during an end fight.


241 PRR without quality PRR and insightful PRR. Even counting maxxed grim barricade, I don't think I could get that (counting mists, max past lives. Breakdown please.

PRR Breakdown:
36 (Past Lives)
+50 (Physical Sheltering)
+20 (Iron Skin)
+20 (Improved Combat Expertise)
+20 (Adherent of the Mists*)
+9 (Henshin Mystic cores)
+30 (Master's Blitz Resistance)
+7 (Mythic and Reaper gear bonuses)
+2 (Champion Hunter Chrisms)
+21 (Grim Barricade) <- at this time, Tier 4 of Reaper's Bulwark gave +3 PRR instead of +6
+2 (Prowess: Dexterity [Rare])
+2 (Prowess: Critical Confirmation [Rare])
+3 (Prowess: PRR [Rare])
+2 (Prowess: Attack and Damage [Rare])
+5 (Prowess: 2-Piece Set)
+2 (Sucker Punch: Attack and Damage [Rare])
+10 (Long Lasting Elixir of PRR +10) <- unethical bonus
= 241 Physical Resistance Rating

*Adherent of the Mists and the PRR +10 potion are the only inconsistent values on this breakdown. At the time, you could occupy a cosmetic slot to fill the last item required to benefit from the bonus; while literally everyone was doing this at this time, it is still an inconsistent value. The aasimar version I currently run can sustain overall higher stats in Improved Combat Expertise - PRR in particular (at 256) - than this half-orc version, but it lacks helpless amplification.


How are you getting 50 MRR without MRR item not even augment?

This is both another mistake through my negligence and one severe flaw in the build I absolutely disliked; I forgot to list the +16 augment, but even so, the sustainable MRR does not meet the cap (although the deficit is not extremely major, assuming you have all the PLs), and this was offset only by using Long Lasting Elixirs of MRR +10 (store-bought).

MRR Breakdown:
9 (Deep Gnome PLs)
9 (Warlock PLs)
7 (Reaper and Mythic gear bonuses)
16 (Augment)
2 (Champion Hunter Chrism)
2 (Prowess: PRR [Rare])
= 45 Magical Resistance Rating
+10 (Long Lasting Elixir of MRR)
= 50 Magical Resistance Rating (monk-cap)

A lot of these inconsistencies are why I ultimately switched to Aasimar with Protector Bond - a lot of these flaws were offset. I also received a massive DC boost, much more HP (to replace Opposition for slotting Adherent), and a wealth of self-sustainability. In future spreadsheets, I'll include breakdowns alongside the statistics in the form of notes, with the exclusion of temporary values.



I mean you come on here posting outrageous numbers
Then you and your buddies get deleted
I would say that's suspicious
Like, not to be believed suspicious

The only "not-to-be-believed-suspicious" accounts for +20 PRR and +2[W]. This is an almost negligible difference, and the revised version of this build (which is superior to this half-orc, but not on spreadsheet) outperforms this build without those values. Gearing and optimizing to this extent allows you to output numbers that almost everyone believes to be unattainable.


Because he got deleted.
That's permanent death.
Don't show your face around here kinDa thing.

My character was restored. Since the exploit that got a numerous amount of characters "deleted" is well-known now, I'll make a few points about it. While this in no way excuses the fact that I took advantage of it, I did precisely 4 lives (3 gnome/1 EPL) with saga XP. This is nowhere as malicious as what many others have done; and the characters were transferred to a subsidiary server to have the according lives rolled-back, followed by restoration.

[Ellihor]

Thank you for response and sincerity about bugs. That's great news that you're back btw

[airbornerangers]

any chance you would post new and better build currently in use with and ap spread also? please please pretty please?

[Symbiont]

any chance you would post new and better build currently in use with and ap spread also? please please pretty please?

Most likely. If I post it at all, it'll be in around a month.

[Amideus]

How would a 16/3/1 Monk, Fighter, Favored Soul feel?

You would get the +4 from Aasamir via bonus wisdom and Fallen Bond.
You would get +3 from Fighter Tactics, and you could also get 15 PRR/MRR and +3 saves from Stalwart Stance instead of the 10 PRR/MRR and +3% health from Meditation at War.
And you would get the Wisdom to damage and DCs from Divine Will.

You would have to use a feat slot to get Grandmaster of Forms, but you're also getting an extra feat from Fighter levels to balance that out potentially. So you're losing Touch of the Void Dragon which is a temporary 2-5 wisdom which could be 1-4 DC and 1W for the more reliable +3 DC at all times and potential for more saves and PRR/MRR.

Just a thought. Aasamir definitely seems like the winner for DCs now, giving +5 overall with FvS instead of the +3 dwarves gave from their tactics.

[noobodyfool]

Wow Just Wow

[adrian69]

There have been a numerous amount of statements regarding the disadvantages of melee in high-skull reaper; after exponential mob and difficulty scaling, the base hits taken from generic mobs are colossal enough to absolutely annihilate a traditionalist character. Having to stand toe-to-toe with these mobs, while penetrating a plethora of damage-mitigating factors (AC, DR, etc) to physically inflict damage, is overwhelming. The sheer amount of reaper-related (and champion) abilities are numerous enough to vaporize anyone at a second's notice; the slightest deviation of attention, the slightest inconsistency in your optimization, the unluckiest (and most common) pulls of enemies all frequently result in your becoming of a soul stone. With the meta supposedly favoring those in the back-lines, and the stereotype for melee nearly desolate because of this; how could a melee possibly not only survive - but effectively perform - versus adversaries of this caliber? The solution is as effective as it is momentous: overpower your opponents with a build that is as devastatingly destructive as it is invulnerable.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fQfGzMspdfFV8pA0n_MWyp9gu1uJbyjcLQsOkq7-l1U/edit#gid=0

General Overview:

• HP (in Reaper): 2,500+
• Sustainable Dire Charge DC: 115
• Sustainable Jade/Shintao DC: 112
• Sustainable Stunning Fist DC: 108
• Physical Resistance Rating (PRR): 241; 70.67% damage mitigation
• Magical Resistance Rating (MRR): 50; 33.33% damage mitigation (monk cap)
• Dodge: 49%
• Incorporeal Miss Chance: 25%
• Armor Class: 226 (81% defense chance at level)
• +30% Passive Movement Speed and Abundant Steps
• Fortitude Save: 110
• Reflex Save: 110
• Will Save: 87
• Standing Doublestrike: 66.91%
• Fully-buffed Doublestrike: 103.91%
• Melee Power: 326
• Healing Amplification: 191

In this spreadsheet, every single item, everything taken during level progression, the DCs of every ability, and every aspect of performance is listed and elaborated upon in meticulous detail; this class, with the allocation of abilities and enhancements showcased in the file above, incorporates a maelstrom of abilities to debilitate and dismember anything unfortunate enough to stand in your hitbox, with an arsenal of primary and emergency CC (crowd-control) utilities to ensure that whatever you are attacking is too overcome to fight back. This build specializes in raw damage, with a truly scary amount of helpless amplification - while honing its ability to bring mobs to a helpless state. Numerous videos of the monk's performance in reaper are shown, and any questions/concerns are welcome!

The only thing the recent monk nerf did was reduced Henshin melee power, killed the bug, and lowered the di on the Duality, right? Am I missing anything? This build wasn't affected much, right?

[Kodwraith]

The only thing the recent monk nerf did was reduced Henshin melee power, killed the bug, and lowered the di on the Duality, right? Am I missing anything? This build wasn't affected much, right?

Correct. I run something similar but with a lot less gear and the changes were not that noticeable. I kill things marginally less quickly but it's pretty marginal. Of course, If I'm standing next to Astrican, everything is already dead before I get there.

The other change, was it also dumped a bunch of melee power in GMoF (+50 vs +15 (iirc) previously), so if for some reason you were running in GMoF previously, you saw a huge boost. For some quests where it's hard to maintain a blitz, GMoF might be more competitive now. You'd get less crit profile, but better saves, and melee power equivalent to a 2/3rds charged blitz. The GMoF AoE trip might make it worthwhile.

[Alled78]

How would a 16/3/1 Monk, Fighter, Favored Soul feel?

You would get the +4 from Aasamir via bonus wisdom and Fallen Bond.
You would get +3 from Fighter Tactics, and you could also get 15 PRR/MRR and +3 saves from Stalwart Stance instead of the 10 PRR/MRR and +3% health from Meditation at War.
And you would get the Wisdom to damage and DCs from Divine Will.

You would have to use a feat slot to get Grandmaster of Forms, but you're also getting an extra feat from Fighter levels to balance that out potentially. So you're losing Touch of the Void Dragon which is a temporary 2-5 wisdom which could be 1-4 DC and 1W for the more reliable +3 DC at all times and potential for more saves and PRR/MRR.

Just a thought. Aasamir definitely seems like the winner for DCs now, giving +5 overall with FvS instead of the +3 dwarves gave from their tactics.

Main problem i n reaper is dps mobs immune to instantkill, so better focus the build for dps, leave instantkill to caster. I think 20 monk is far superior to any split.
With 16 monks u lose too much.

[adrian69]

Main problem i n reaper is dps mobs immune to instantkill, so better focus the build for dps, leave instantkill to caster. I think 20 monk is far superior to any split.
With 16 monks u lose too much.

I'll second that pure is better, especially if you're planning on using a DC build (exceptions to SF and Dire Charge of course). By not going pure you'll be down a DC every level or 2 depending on the ability. So basically by the time you pick Aasimar DCs up it's a wash. The only monk splash I'd consider would be 18/1 FvS/1 X. But then you're losing 25 melee power. You need to make sure you are getting at least than +9 to +12 Damage from DM:Wisdom to wash it out.

[slarden]

I'll second that pure is better, especially if you're planning on using a DC build (exceptions to SF and Dire Charge of course). By not going pure you'll be down a DC every level or 2 depending on the ability. So basically by the time you pick Aasimar DCs up it's a wash. The only monk splash I'd consider would be 18/1 FvS/1 X. But then you're losing 25 melee power. You need to make sure you are getting at least than +9 to +12 Damage from DM:Wisdom to wash it out.
I’ve been looking at either an 18/1 fvs/1 wizard or pure 20 Shintao. It seems the [2] W from the Shintao capstone is a huge reason to go pure, but does it stack with the [1]W from the 18 core or is it only a [1]W improvement?

[adrian69]

I’ve been looking at either an 18/1 fvs/1 wizard or pure 20 Shintao. It seems the [2] W from the Shintao capstone is a huge reason to go pure, but does it stack with the [1]W from the 18 core or is it only a [1]W improvement?

TBH, I have never checked to see which way it added. I always figured it was +3 total since SSG was trying to move away the confusing descriptions like this Turbine was good for.

20.8 seems to be what Symmbiot is getting with Duality if you can back engineer that.

I'm only 12 atm, but I can check at 20 in a couple of days and report back if I remember.

[Opensezame]

There have been a numerous amount of statements regarding the disadvantages of melee in high-skull reaper; after exponential mob and difficulty scaling, the base hits taken from generic mobs are colossal enough to absolutely annihilate a traditionalist character. Having to stand toe-to-toe with these mobs, while penetrating a plethora of damage-mitigating factors (AC, DR, etc) to physically inflict damage, is overwhelming. The sheer amount of reaper-related (and champion) abilities are numerous enough to vaporize anyone at a second's notice; the slightest deviation of attention, the slightest inconsistency in your optimization, the unluckiest (and most common) pulls of enemies all frequently result in your becoming of a soul stone. With the meta supposedly favoring those in the back-lines, and the stereotype for melee nearly desolate because of this; how could a melee possibly not only survive - but effectively perform - versus adversaries of this caliber? The solution is as effective as it is momentous: overpower your opponents with a build that is as devastatingly destructive as it is invulnerable.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fQfGzMspdfFV8pA0n_MWyp9gu1uJbyjcLQsOkq7-l1U/edit#gid=0

General Overview:

• HP (in Reaper): 2,500+
• Sustainable Dire Charge DC: 115
• Sustainable Jade/Shintao DC: 112
• Sustainable Stunning Fist DC: 108
• Physical Resistance Rating (PRR): 241; 70.67% damage mitigation
• Magical Resistance Rating (MRR): 50; 33.33% damage mitigation (monk cap)
• Dodge: 49%
• Incorporeal Miss Chance: 25%
• Armor Class: 226 (81% defense chance at level)
• +30% Passive Movement Speed and Abundant Steps
• Fortitude Save: 110
• Reflex Save: 110
• Will Save: 87
• Standing Doublestrike: 66.91%
• Fully-buffed Doublestrike: 103.91%
• Melee Power: 326
• Healing Amplification: 191

In this spreadsheet, every single item, everything taken during level progression, the DCs of every ability, and every aspect of performance is listed and elaborated upon in meticulous detail; this class, with the allocation of abilities and enhancements showcased in the file above, incorporates a maelstrom of abilities to debilitate and dismember anything unfortunate enough to stand in your hitbox, with an arsenal of primary and emergency CC (crowd-control) utilities to ensure that whatever you are attacking is too overcome to fight back. This build specializes in raw damage, with a truly scary amount of helpless amplification - while honing its ability to bring mobs to a helpless state. Numerous videos of the monk's performance in reaper are shown, and any questions/concerns are welcome!


Have you created a falconry version of this build yet?

[DrawingGuy]

Falconry is indeed the way to go for Monks now - especially for a DC build like I am. Unfortunately much of what you need is deep in the tree, forcing heavy investment. Though with the nerf to Henshin, and Ninja Spy not gaining too much advantage beyond a 12 AP dip (especially as No Mercy is overlapped anyways), this can be afforded.

As a pure Monk handwrap user, you want the 41 AP spend in Shintao. To get the DC advantage along with the WIS to attack/damage, you need a minimum of 21 into Falconry. This means 62 AP is locked, with 18 to play with.

This 18 is where decisions get tough:

I find two Ki Strikes to be very important. Knock on the Sky is 10% damage reduction, and Unbalancing Strike gives you Sneak Attack damage when you have aggro. Both are very important if you are the Monk tank as they are components of survival and DPS. Investing 11-12 AP into Ninja Spy will net me that along with dodge cap bonus for more survival and Shadow Veil for 15% more incorporeal (or 25% if you don't have a Ghostly item on). However, beyond survival boosts, Ninja Spy lost its second main reason for investment: we no longer need the DEX to hit/damage. With half the reason gone, I find myself leaning towards dumping Ninja Spy and debating between Unbalancing for SA damage and Knock for 10% damage reduction. If you run Ethereal, Unbalancing is clearly better, but Falconry provides some more reasons to go Astral Plane.

Going even deeper into Falconry provides several advantages. First is that Deadly Instinct (your DC move) is limited use, so you really want that at 2 or 3. No Mercy is a large DPS increase for trash killing, especially on a class that is quite good at CC. The cores, while nothing to write home about, are still great AP spends as they give +3 MP, PRR, and MRR for only 1 AP. Bird attacks are needed for Deadly Instinct maintenance, and have the potential to be additional CC. In short, you can quite easily spend your extra points in it.

There are, of course, still other spends I like:

- Aasimar cores and T5 bond -- 4+ AP depending on amount of racial PLs
- Vistani offers a cheap 25% neg resist along with PRR and MRR. Undead Favored Enemy stacks with Animal Favored Enemy for +4 to both. A little more can net you Haste Boost, Deflect Arrows, and Double Strike (including one of the few ways to increase offhand Doublestrike) -- 3-11 AP
- Henshin first core for 3 MP and PRR is still a good deal for 1AP, and Animal Stance is also worth the 2 AP -- 1-3 AP


Personally, this is how I plan on spending my AP:

41 Shintao
31 Falconry
4 Aasimar
3 Vistani
1 Henshin


The other debate that I mentioned is Ethereal or Astral Scion. Ethereal is by far the biggest DPS increase, but by going Astral you are not only boosting your Quivering Palm that needs every boost it can get, but your Falconry moves as well as assassination sources are harder to fit and rarer. Two more Helpless CCs is respectable, though albeit currently clunky due to bird attack delay. Really I think this will boil down to personal choice/situation: Is CC generally handled by casters in your party anyways? Ethereal will serve you better. Do you tend to just auto-attack anyways? Ethereal serves you better. You find yourself as the main form of CC in the party? That extra CC as well as more reliable QP can be more important, making Astral more worthwhile.

I currently don't have static parties, and often solo/pug, so I'll probably be taking Astral. Also not needing to invest in Hide is nice, though I'll just be wanting to fit Assassinate in its place if I can. We'll see if that lasts, or if the near double damage advantage of Ethereal over Astral (the math varies hugely depending on gear) calls me too hard. But I do like QP spam a lot, and it's fun when it is basically no-fail... wah

[unbongwah]

41 Shintao
31 Falconry
4 Aasimar
3 Vistani
1 Henshin
I haven't unlocked Falconry yet, but I was thinking 41 Shintao / 28 Falconry / 11 Ninja. Racial APs can go towards whatever. Shadow Veil is too good to pass up IMO and you also pick up Melee Power Boost along the way. Deadly Instinct + No Mercy + Expose Weakness + Coordinated Strike is 28 APs; if the latter proves less than useful due to the long CD, you can always shift that AP into Henshin.

[DrawingGuy]

In short, I can boil the decision of that 11 AP down to this:

Ignoring Ninja Spy, the 11 AP gains:
+ 1 WIS
+ 6 MP
+ 9 PRR
+ 6 MRR
+ 25% Neg Absorb
+ Ascendant Bond for either 10 MP + Vuln stacking + Fear Immunity or 10% HP + 3 saves + 10 PRR + 10 MRR
+ Divine Purpose or 40 Heal amp (or some mix thereof)

Getting Ninja Spy, you gain:
+ Short Sword useage
+ Extra shuri throw chance based on DEX
+ 1d6 SA
+ Shadow Veil for 15% more Incorporeal (or 25% if you don't slot ghostly)
+ Ki Strike (which I discuss earlier)
+ 2 dodge cap + 2 concentration + 2 Reflex or 20 MP action boost

For those that are not Aasimar, I'd certainly go the Ninja Spy route. For those that are Aasimar and have enough past lives for the cores but not enough for a cheap Ascendant Bond, again Ninja Spy. For those that are Aasimar, but not enough past lives for cores, I'd invest in the cores. A zero racial PL toon could do my split and either drop 3 AP off Falconry if the WIS isn't needed to be made even, or off Vistani. Or for players that do have all the past lives, which is the premise of this thread and is what the OP has, which again I favor my split. But, again, that can be seen as opinion. I've always been an advocate of Shadow Veil and the 11/12 Ninja Spy spend - I've been locked onto it for years, and wouldn't consider anyone wrong to continue to do so.


The 1 AP for a cleave/aoe blind/aoe 50% fort drop is indeed on a poor timer, though still nice as one of the opening moves. I'd definitely keep it on a 31 AP spend, but in a Ninja Spy spend, that goes against another tier of MP boost or dodge cap or Henshin core... though I'd probably drop one point off Deadly Instinct before I'd drop Coordinated Strike. I wouldn't go down to 1 point on DI as you can definitely get screwed by RNG with resets on a 30s timer, but should be pretty safe on a 1m timer. Though I will note that either the tool tip is wrong, or the move currently has lower than what it should DC, as it currently does not show Assassination bonuses in the tool tip DC. Haven't tested for real world DC though.

[Paisheng]

I haven't unlocked Falconry yet, but I was thinking 41 Shintao / 28 Falconry / 11 Ninja. Racial APs can go towards whatever. Shadow Veil is too good to pass up IMO and you also pick up Melee Power Boost along the way. Deadly Instinct + No Mercy + Expose Weakness + Coordinated Strike is 28 APs; if the latter proves less than useful due to the long CD, you can always shift that AP into Henshin.

I am enjoying this thread and picking up some good pointers on the different builds -- so thanks to all contributing.

However with the falconry tree, while there is still excellent viability doing a dex monk and utilizing much of the ninja tree, I think the strongest build for handwraps now lies in a wisdom based monk along with the falcronry tree. Here we achieve more DPS while clearly being able to max dcs for all the CC and QP -- especially with Deadly Instincts which not only boosts dc but can greatly increase damage.

Yes the investment in Falcronry is huge, as it should be I believe. I think the devs did right by making attainment more difficult than the dex monk.

Some notes from my experience in the tree.

Levels 1-4 are weaker as I invest 20 into wisdom with Aasimar and 15 dex and rest in Constitution. So I am a "weak" strength monk for these 4 levels. This is not too much of a problem (I can solo r4 through these levels) with my maxed out monk toon. I still prefer to get the haste boost out of vistani at level 2 and find this better dps than going to early with Falconry. I could get wisdom damage by level 3 but found not as effective as the haste. This all pays off then at level 5.

Level 5 and forward I build pretty much exclusively in falconry with the exception at 6 I will put 4 points to Aasimar to attain Ascendant Bond.

At level 12 I surprised myself by not switching over to Shintao tree and getting tier 5 enhancements. I found the tier 5 falconry a worthwhile trade off and quite fun. You get a 5xdmg that also heals you well with good heal amp, 10 melee power, a reliable instant death (yes on a slow timer) and of course maintain the tier 4 deadly instincts, coordinated strikes etc. I do not use the tier 2 and 3 bird strikes as these are too clunky and slow, and coordinated strikes is sufficient to reset Deadly Instincts if used properly at the beginning of most fights.

Finally at level 18 will I switch to a Shintao monk -- still maintaining my deadly instincts in falconry and haste in vistani.

At level 20 I can reclaim the 8 points in vistani as the LD destiny provides haste boost. I tried once to pull points for ninja core 3 incorporeality but felt I was losing some of the power and flavor of coordinated strikes, etc. in the falconry tree. So while I tr'd and did not do too many quests yet in Epics with falconry I am nonetheless leaning to dropping it altogether and investing 42 Shintao 4 in Aasimar (possibly 6 for the extra heal amp) and 31 in falconry -- leaving me a few points (3) to randomly play with such as henshin or aasimar like noted for the extra heal amp).

Overall I am pleased that falconry gives some new flavor to monks and making them one of the best hand wrap builds and especially for making Quivering Palm much more viable in high reaper with the Deadly Instincts boost (with a high wisdom -- say around 86 or so -- one is talking about a +20 to the dc. No longer one has to invest points into intel and intel gear to achieve probably 1/2 that bonus on the know the angles enhancment. So approximating a +10 better dc than what was achievable before.

This will lead us to talking about all the new gear opportunities available as one does not have to stretch it to cover dexterity and intelligence like we once did. Breath of relief.

Cheers to the devs along with my fellow monk lovers.

[DrawingGuy]

The Ninja Spy investment is not for the DEX to attack/damage as WIS would be main stat and you would be taking the WIS options from the Falconry tree. If you look at my breakdown, you can see plenty of reason to put points into Ninja Spy beyond the DEX. However losing that reason is indeed a big part of why I forgo it in my suggested splits.

I do question the dropping of tier 2 and 3 bird attacks. Yes, they are indeed too clunky - the bird should attack at the start of your attack rather than after, and I hope they change that - but they are CC and resets. I'll need to have some playtime before I know if they're too clunky in active play (after all, that is why I don't bother with Kukan-Do), but I find it interesting you find a 1 minute timer skill as sufficient, as it could quite easily have an unlucky run that runs your charges out. Though it's true you should be generally fine. The other concern is the maintenance of Expose Weakness. If you can maintain both Expose Weakness and Deadly Instincts with just Coordinated Strikes, it definitely puts a capper on the other two until they are made less clunky.

For now, I'll reserve my suggestions to what I provided until I have some real testing under my belt.

[Paisheng]

Drawing Guy - your insights are always stellar and I think we are mainly in agreement -- or will be -- once you experience the clunkiness of the early bird attacks (including have to select a target for it to go off vs just being in proximity and firing off the clickie like on Coordinated Strikes.

Yes I agree ninja tree has other viable options besides dex attack/dmg particularly core 3. However it does mean sacrificing some benefits of tier four from Falconry and/or the Aasimar final buff on hp or melee power, etc.

I am not a huge proponent of Exposed Weakness as it is just 10 secs -- so it is true that you cannot maintain that with coordinated strikes (10 secs of every minute). However you can maintain Deadly Strikes as I believe from experience the Coordinated strikes resets some where between 20%-33% of the time. Thus pretty guaranteed by odds every 3-5 clicks (minutes) you can reset Deadly on average. This has always carried me at least to the next shrine. Even on the conservative side that gives you about 14 minutes of deadly strike between shrines. Of course if it is already off and you are not fighting you can save time to not click it til the next fight starts.

But if you want to maintain almost 30 secs of that minute or so with the fort reduction then the other bird attacks are handy to have available. Of course as you know all bird timers go off for 4 1/2 seconds so there will be actually be like 30 secs of 70 seconds. I like leading with the coordinated strikes which sets of the blindess, tearing effect and 10 secs of fort -- hold for the bird -- and then whirlwind the mob. Holding for the 2 secs or so for the bird to go off is the most difficult part. I tend to whirlwind to quickly .....but that is clearly a personal issue :).

On whole the Devs have made us make hard choices -- even Henshin tree had some good lower fruit -- but I am liking the expression of flavor in falconry and finding the give/take from other trees an equitable compensation in terms of effects both defensibly and offensively.

[DrawingGuy]

Since you are Aasimar with the past lives, we are in complete agreement that dropping Ninja Spy is worth it as Tier 4 Falconry abilities are strong as is Aasimar Ascendant Bond, which simply does not leave room for proper Ninja spy investment. I do try to break the pros/cons of both out, but no reason to just repeat agreements. The 3 points you have extra I would personally spend on Vistani. 25% negative absorb - especially as most neg spells are fort saves so you don't get Evasion reduction - along with 3 PRR and MRR is well worth the 3 AP spend imo. Henshin core 1 and animal form is also a good spend, but I lean toward the defensive boost, especially with how hard Reaper spells hit.


A -50% fort debuff is the strongest in the game, only matched by Wrack, which is construct limited. Strike for the Eyes (t3 bird strike) is on a 10s CD, so would have the potential of maintaining it on a boss target. This also would go far for Tear stacking. So even if the skills currently underperform, it would still be a good idea to still load at least Strike for the Eyes for bosses as well as Deadly Instinct resets if it will be longer between shrines. It sucks to hear they are currently too clunky for regular use, but the last thing I need to know/determine is if Coordinated Strike's aoe blind is a helpless effect or not. If it is, Assassination would be a worthwhile investment as that would be an important AOE boost. If it is not, and the other bird attacks are too clunky, then Assassination can be dropped and really Ethereal being the only way to go unless you truly want to all-in on QP.

As for holding off on WWA, I would say that would depend if you have Dire Charge or not. Dire Charge > WWA > Coordinated Strike would be the better combo. Doing WWA first would serve two purposes: First, and most important, is so that you can try to squeeze two WWAs into a single Dire Charge stun. Second as Coordinated Strike (calling it CS from now on) has a delayed effect anyways, your second WWA should be mostly off CD before it triggers, and you can fit two WWAs within the fort debuff even if you have to wait longer for WWA. If CS is indeed a Helpless trigger, that would cause you to want to delay CS possibly even longer so that you can have it fill in the gap between Dire Charge CDs (unless the trash killing is fast enough to not need a second Dire).

As Dire Charge is on a short enough CD that it should always be ready to start a fight, it would only be lower levels I'd start the fight with Coordinated. And even then I'd question holding off on WWA until the bird triggers. As the window is 10s, you're still only going to fit 2 WWAs within the debuff whether you do CS > WWA > bird triggers > WWA ~3s into debuff > WWA ~8s into debuff or if you CS > wait 2s for bird > WWA after bird > WWA ~5s into debuff. If anything, you're losing DPS by waiting. This also poses the possibility of starting with a WWA first, especially if you need to gather mobs a bit to ensure the debuff hits everyone.

[Paisheng]

Yup yup. good point on using the 3 points vistani. I think I will switch those over from Henshin. I just got to 20 the second time with Falcon and haven't contemplated til now the epics and end game. But I like your theory on Dire--WW--CS -- WW. I suppose that would work with the timer as well in heroics WW-CS-WW, but the problem is that most of the trash is killed in heroics by the time bird goes off (at least up to around R3-4) in that format. But in higher reaper all three would be a good call.

You have probably noticed but the bird does quite a wide aoe more than I anticipated....so it is often hitting targets others are working on. Not sure how to pin down the exact distance but it is impressive. So in heroics its been nice to lead with the CS to help out others fighting the other trash.

Regarding QP --with Deadly Strikes I was reaching around 56 DC around level 16 (if memory serves). Bottom line -- never a problem hitting with QP from Levels 15 to 20 (pretty sure the only fails were on a 1) though I didn't usually go higher than r5. But it was very nice to have strong confidence in QP finally even with champs. Soon to test out the Epics and see how it performs there. I also prefer a DC build and see Astral as the likely choice at 30 for this reason. I used to want the best DPS, but the trade off of a reliable instant death equals in essence more dps. Bosses maybe slower, but thanks to the wisdom damage now, perhaps not so much.

[MaeveTuohy]

I am running in GMoF to try it in preference to the typical LD I use.

One thing I have noticied is how well Drifiting Lotus now works. The tactical bonus from Deadly Instinct seems to add to Drifting Lotus making it work for me all the time in EE when in Water Stance. The tooltip for DL doesn't chance its DC as it does for Stunning Fist.

It could be that I am imagining the improved effectiveness and that it is not adding the Deadly Instinct bonus. Not even sure if this would be WAI or not, always hard to tell with DDO.

The short cooldown (15 secs) means I can enter the mob circle, Drift, then Whirl with everything appearing to take extra damage due to them being knocked down, though this isn't in the wiki list of things which do or do not grant helpless .

How much of this am I imagining?

[Jetrule]

I am not sure if you are imagining extra effectiveness of the GMOF attacks. But you are imagining that GMOF is a divine sphere epic destiny.

[MaeveTuohy]

I am not sure if you are imagining extra effectiveness of the GMOF attacks. But you are imagining that GMOF is a divine sphere epic destiny.


Thanks, I will edit my post.

[Robbenklopper]

I am running in GMoF to try it in preference to the typical LD I use.

One thing I have noticied is how well Drifiting Lotus now works. The tactical bonus from Deadly Instinct seems to add to Drifting Lotus making it work for me all the time in EE when in Water Stance. The tooltip for DL doesn't chance its DC as it does for Stunning Fist.

It could be that I am imagining the improved effectiveness and that it is not adding the Deadly Instinct bonus. Not even sure if this would be WAI or not, always hard to tell with DDO.

The short cooldown (15 secs) means I can enter the mob circle, Drift, then Whirl with everything appearing to take extra damage due to them being knocked down, though this isn't in the wiki list of things which do or do not grant helpless .

How much of this am I imagining?

I can´t say how much.

After Falconer was released I spend my AP, i also checked for alternatives to LD and went GmoF. Deadly instincs seems to (expected) leave Lotus in terms of DC and knock-downs untouched (also EIN). No kind of combat-mastery is added too.
Is it better by something than before? Can´t say.
Well, it anyway depends on your WIS, which is "now" probably better by SLC or RL gear (by higher stats) ? Do you wear the same staff like before Falconry?
When i checked out GmoF with lotus, "my" DC for "their" reflex was about 80 (?). That was close to a no-fail for any casters etc. but a mostly-fail for grunts or the like. Not sure that i also saw helpless-boni. So i switched back to LD.

If you can figure out or confirm some "change", i would love to read about and probably give GmoF another try.

[supps2]

Couple questions -

Does this build still work today or was it nerfed into extinction?

Does it have to be H-Orc or would Human also work or Aasimar?

Thanks in advance.

[Hamagawi]

Couple questions -

Does this build still work today or was it nerfed into extinction?

Does it have to be H-Orc or would Human also work or Aasimar?

Thanks in advance.

Depends on how closely you want to copy paste the build, the core of the build with WWA, SF and GTWF is pretty standard stuff that has remained unchanged for a long time. The Henshin enhancements got nerfed to the ground and falconry got added as an option making it more appealing to go for a full wisdom investment. If you are looking at that list of fairly impressive stats and saying I want those stats, the henshin/shintao nerfs mean your MP won't end up quite as high but most of what is there is due to the gear setup you use and the past lives you have rather than the exact enhancement split so in that sense the build still works just fine.

Edit: also no Horc is not required, Human and Aasimar are both solid monk race options.

[DrawingGuy]

I admit that it has been a while since I've ran GMoF, but I'm 90% sure that Lotus does not give helpless. Between base 50% + No Mercy 30% + Sense Weakness 30%, it should be extremely obvious if you are. Even without Helpless damage, Lotus is definitely worth the investment as any AOE CC is useful. However it doesn't really carry in Reaper very well as even with extreme WIS investments, you're still looking at a DC in the 80s, which would only really work on low-reflex targets... which there are few of to balance against casters that can roll 100+ DCs. Legendary Dreadnought is better in every single way (you have to twist from LD for GMoF to beat it in DC boosting), but the game is about fun. GMoF gives you actual moves which indeed are more fun than the more passive nature of LD, so nothing wrong with running it if you enjoy it. I meta-game a little too much to suffer running it, and really hope some day it gets a serious pass.


@supps2 - Most of this build would be fine following. The core of an unarmed monk, whirlwind attack, sets 10 feats in stone. That leaves no heroic feat flexibility unless you're Human or PDK, so no matter whom you look at, they will be pretty much the same. Epic feats is where you are flexible. Good feat choices:

DPS Feats:
- Precision: Note that this will come at the cost of Combat Expertise's survival boost, but gives a large accuracy boost and fort bypass.
- Improved Martial Arts: Passive DPS boost by giving +1[W] if unarmed
- Overwhelming Critical: Passive DPS boost by boosting 19-20 crits
- Disciple of the Fist: Passive DPS boost by giving +0.5[W] if unarmed
- Sneak of Shadows: Clicky that boosts SA damage, though only really worth it if you run Scion of Ethereal

Utility Feats:
- Completionist: +2 to all abilities and skills means a small boost to everything, and if you are building for QP, this becomes especially useful.
- Vorpal Strikes: Only way to get Slashing Bypass while unarmed as they nerfed Morninglord wraps.
- Blinding Speed: The OP takes this, though I consider it only a "convenience" feat. I personally never take it, preferring to fit speed/alacrity on my gear or using haste pots/clickies if a caster isn't available.

Defensive Feats:
- Epic Damage Reduction: 10 PRR is 10 PRR
- Epic Reflexes: Not failing Reflex saves on a 1 makes a difference, though not really enough to outweigh a DPS feat IMO. And for mechanics where rapid reflex saves make this a big deal (such as Moiir), you can always just run GMoF.
- Toughness/Epic Toughness: Every little bit of HP helps
- Deflect Arrows: I do feel that this feat gets underestimated, but this is also available as a 6 AP spend in Vistani.

Essentially pick 4 feats (or 5 if human/pdk, though you'll be limited to heroic feats for that extra) from that list of feats. What you pick is up to you, and is really the only piece that will vary between unarmed Monk build feats. I'd also suggest that defensive feats be bottom priority. My opinion is to always build for the minimum amount of defenses required -- anything more, and you're just giving up DPS/utility for nothing.


For Enhancements: This can be freely changed with just a little plat. Experiment to see what fits your playstyle! I have discussion in this thread regarding how to split AP, and I'm still messing around with the Falconry tree myself. I've already changed how I spent my AP in the tree 4 times and have come to conclusions that paper crafting would not give me. I may post something at some time with final layouts, but still suggest people to experiment themselves. I will note, however, that I would not strictly follow the OPs original AP spread anymore. The 1s CD added to weapon/item swapping makes Quick Strike far too clunky to bother with for the Doublestrike buff, Henshin has been nerfed heavily, and there is now Falconry to consider.


For Gear: I go back and forth on this thread as well for gear; U38 and U39 really have not changed it other than making Nightfall ring less useful. Here is a proposed setup:

Goggles: LGS Unconcious 128/Ins Hide 11/Ins Hide 6 - Good Weapons active augment
Helm: Legendary Executioner's Helm
Necklace: Fleetfoot Necklace
Trinket: CC - Dodge 15, Heal Amp 61, Ins WIS 7
Cloak: Legendary Shadowhail Cloak (Legendary Phasecloak swap for KtA)
Belt: Legendary Cutcord
Gloves: Molten Silver Gauntlets
Boots: Legendary Flightfoot Greaves
Bracers: Legendary Lore-Fueled Packbanner
Ring 1: Legendary Perfect Pinnacle
Ring 2: Slavers - CON 17, Accuracy 28, Vertigo 20, Qual WIS 4
Armor: Legendary Disciple of the Dawn
Main Weapon: Duality (Deconstructor and Endless Night slotted)

If you are not running in Scion of Ethereal, I'd suggest using "The Masque" for your goggles. As you don't need the hide, that will still let you grab the unconscious range while also snagging +7 Ins Deadly and Soundproof. You could also get +7 Ins Deadly by using Nightfall Ring instead of Perfect Pinnacle, but I personally see getting stance bonuses (such as auto-trip in Water) and Stunning 22 as outweighing getting only the +7 Ins Deadly from Nightfall as the Ins INT is no longer needed.


Lastly Race: This is also debated in the thread, and I break it down here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/494282-20-Monk-Shintao-(reaper-optimized)?p=6071805&viewfull=1#post6071805


Hopefully that answers all your questions!

[Robbenklopper]

No doubt this is by far the best dps build, so i´m working on at least getting all the gear for.

@DrawingGuy
For my main, i´m still puzzeling on a gear-setup that includes insightful-combat-mastery, but i despair about finding a solution. In Terms of DC-boni, RL-gears appears inferior(?)
Cowl of the Giant Warriors breaks cloak, pendant Focus breaks neck, many hooked greaves break boots. Rings and helm- anyway no. Probabably boots (or trinket?) remain exchangable for RL-sets. They don´t seem to support DC-builds, coz the "some better" stats on RL don´t make up a +7 from cowl.
Can you imagine any Setup with quality+insight CM while covering everything neccessary while adherents or avenger set?

[DrawingGuy]

No doubt this is by far the best dps build, so i´m working on at least getting all the gear for.

@DrawingGuy
For my main, i´m still puzzeling on a gear-setup that includes insightful-combat-mastery, but i despair about finding a solution. In Terms of DC-boni, RL-gears appears inferior(?)
Cowl of the Giant Warriors breaks cloak, pendant Focus breaks neck, many hooked greaves break boots. Rings and helm- anyway no. Probabably boots (or trinket?) remain exchangable for RL-sets. They don´t seem to support DC-builds, coz the "some better" stats on RL don´t make up a +7 from cowl.
Can you imagine any Setup with quality+insight CM while covering everything neccessary while adherents or avenger set?

You won't get the numbers this build did. They've nerfed the MP Monks get in both Henshin and Shintao cores, and nerfed the wraps by ~30% damage. He also uses some other buffs that either no longer work (such as still getting RL set bonuses without the gear, which was exploiting anyways), are too tedious to use due to nerfs (such as staff doublestrike bonus), or are questionable (such as carrying bonuses over from feats/destinies from previous lives). This coupled with the fact that he has every possible past life and millions of RXP are what people on the forums are using as the baseline of what Monks are and are calling the OP. It's just dumb, but whatever.

Whether it is the best DPS build or not, I haven't really sat down to compare to recent changes with Falconry and post-nerf options. I'd venture that serious enhancement changes would be needed, as well as gear changes to get set bonuses, and some minor feat changes as well. He talks about it in the thread, and hasn't been back since Falconry. Though he certainly helps show the value of Helplessness damage, and why I suggest going pretty heavy into Falconry (28 or 31) as you can get that from the tree. It is possible to do the Half-Orc 19 (11 racial PL + 1 tome + 7 ap spend), 41 Shintao, 31 Falconry, 1 Henshin (drop the 1 Henshin if you don't have the tome), and would be the highest possible trash DPS. Though I still question if that is worth giving up the gains Aasimar gives you.

As for fitting Insightful Combat Mastery, you can actually fit it in without losing any set bonuses, though I don't think it is needed. Items do NOT affect Quivering Palm, and the efforts to get QP DCs in line should have all of your other tactics sitting pretty. If you still would like to fit it in, you can simply change to Cannith Crafted goggles. That lets you put Ins WIS onto the goggles and then put Ins CM onto your trinket extra slot. This would also allow for you to put Accuracy on the goggles and free up Accuracy from the Slavers ring so you could either slot 14 Resistance (for +6 saves to Fort and Will over a +8 augment) or 185 Positive Spell Power to boost your FOL finisher and Rejuvination Cocoon. The latter I feel would do more for you than the Resistance. Note, however, that this will come at the cost of DPS, either from the loss of Hide value to your Ethereal stance or from the loss of Ins Deadly. The Masque or LGS goggles also essentially give you +128 HP as someone can heal you from down-state. Even forgoing all that, I'd go for Ins PRR or Ins Accuracy on the trinket before I'd go Ins CM. Now if items actually affected QP, that would be a different story.

[Paisheng]

If you are not running in Scion of Ethereal, I'd suggest using "The Masque" for your goggles. As you don't need the hide, that will still let you grab the unconscious range while also snagging +7 Ins Deadly and Soundproof. You could also get +7 Ins Deadly by using Nightfall Ring instead of Perfect Pinnacle, but I personally see getting stance bonuses (such as auto-trip in Water) and Stunning 22 as outweighing getting only the +7 Ins Deadly from Nightfall as the Ins INT is no longer needed.

Hopefully that answers all your questions!
Isn't Insight Deadly on equipment meaningless if you are running with Falconry Deadly Instincts (or Know the Angles for the matter)? Is this equipment stacking with Deadly Instincts although they are both deadly Insight bonuses? Is it stacking with some equipment but not others (bug)? Has anybody tested it yet (my toon is too low currently for tha equipment test). Thanks for any info on this.

[DrawingGuy]

Isn't Insight Deadly on equipment meaningless if you are running with Falconry Deadly Instincts (or Know the Angles for the matter)? Is this equipment stacking with Deadly Instincts although they are both deadly Insight bonuses? Is it stacking with some equipment but not others (bug)? Has anybody tested it yet (my toon is too low currently for tha equipment test). Thanks for any info on this.

Yes, it has been tested. The Insightful damage and tactics bonuses of abilities (KtA, Divine Will, Divine Presence, Deadly Instincts) stack with the Insightful Damage and Insightful Tactics of equipment. This coding difference not only allows for the stacking, but allows for something extremely important: It allows for the Tactics bonus of abilities to work for Quivering Palm where all equipment bonuses do not. If they were coded as the same, QP would either accept or reject them equally.

Divine Might is the only "trance" ability that does not stack with equipment as both sources of Insightful Strength are coded the same. While STR still has the highest stat potential so still easily competes for Tactics DCs, I do think that this should be changed to stack. I do think STR should continue to be the best DPS potential as STR does not have the advantage alternative stats do.

[Robbenklopper]

You won't get the numbers this build did. They've nerfed the MP Monks get in both Henshin and Shintao cores, and nerfed the wraps by ~30% damage. He also uses some other buffs that either no longer work (such as still getting RL set bonuses without the gear, which was exploiting anyways), are too tedious to use due to nerfs (such as staff doublestrike bonus), or are questionable (such as carrying bonuses over from feats/destinies from previous lives). This coupled with the fact that he has every possible past life and millions of RXP are what people on the forums are using as the baseline of what Monks are and are calling the OP. It's just dumb, but whatever.

Whether it is the best DPS build or not, I haven't really sat down to compare to recent changes with Falconry and post-nerf options. I'd venture that serious enhancement changes would be needed, as well as gear changes to get set bonuses, and some minor feat changes as well. He talks about it in the thread, and hasn't been back since Falconry. Though he certainly helps show the value of Helplessness damage, and why I suggest going pretty heavy into Falconry (28 or 31) as you can get that from the tree. It is possible to do the Half-Orc 19 (11 racial PL + 1 tome + 7 ap spend), 41 Shintao, 31 Falconry, 1 Henshin (drop the 1 Henshin if you don't have the tome), and would be the highest possible trash DPS. Though I still question if that is worth giving up the gains Aasimar gives you.

As for fitting Insightful Combat Mastery, you can actually fit it in without losing any set bonuses, though I don't think it is needed. Items do NOT affect Quivering Palm, and the efforts to get QP DCs in line should have all of your other tactics sitting pretty. If you still would like to fit it in, you can simply change to Cannith Crafted goggles. That lets you put Ins WIS onto the goggles and then put Ins CM onto your trinket extra slot. This would also allow for you to put Accuracy on the goggles and free up Accuracy from the Slavers ring so you could either slot 14 Resistance (for +6 saves to Fort and Will over a +8 augment) or 185 Positive Spell Power to boost your FOL finisher and Rejuvination Cocoon. The latter I feel would do more for you than the Resistance. Note, however, that this will come at the cost of DPS, either from the loss of Hide value to your Ethereal stance or from the loss of Ins Deadly. The Masque or LGS goggles also essentially give you +128 HP as someone can heal you from down-state. Even forgoing all that, I'd go for Ins PRR or Ins Accuracy on the trinket before I'd go Ins CM. Now if items actually affected QP, that would be a different story.

Thank you for your Reply and offered solutions!
Symbionts´s build serves for the Basics, never on earth i can aquire all that power he gathered, and certainly need to adapt thing to fit with falconry on my toon. I´m not sure to invest more than 26AP in it atm.
The costs for going INS-CM appear to be not worthy like you explained. Neither to the loss of dps nor to the time to now start CCrafting up from Zero ;)
Ok, dropping that idea and sticking to cowl and SLC gear on this toon.

[Paisheng]

Yes, it has been tested. The Insightful damage and tactics bonuses of abilities (KtA, Divine Will, Divine Presence, Deadly Instincts) stack with the Insightful Damage and Insightful Tactics of equipment. This coding difference not only allows for the stacking, but allows for something extremely important: It allows for the Tactics bonus of abilities to work for Quivering Palm where all equipment bonuses do not. If they were coded as the same, QP would either accept or reject them equally.

Divine Might is the only "trance" ability that does not stack with equipment as both sources of Insightful Strength are coded the same. While STR still has the highest stat potential so still easily competes for Tactics DCs, I do think that this should be changed to stack. I do think STR should continue to be the best DPS potential as STR does not have the advantage alternative stats do.

This is good news indeed. Thanks for the info; now back to the fun of optimizing equipment....

[DrawingGuy]

Thank you for your Reply and offered solutions!
Symbionts´s build serves for the Basics, never on earth i can aquire all that power he gathered, and certainly need to adapt thing to fit with falconry on my toon. I´m not sure to invest more than 26AP in it atm.
The costs for going INS-CM appear to be not worthy like you explained. Neither to the loss of dps nor to the time to now start CCrafting up from Zero ;)
Ok, dropping that idea and sticking to cowl and SLC gear on this toon.

The thing is, all of the T4 abilities of Falconry are very strong -- other than Shared Vision, which is trash. I wouldn't take that at 1 AP, let alone 2 AP. That should be combined with Eyes of the Eagle and replaced with something new, or have something added to it. Possibly combining it with Nothing is Hidden, or a new version that can find secret doors using a Spot check instead of a Search check, but can't find traps. But I'm digressing here... back to why I suggest a 28+ point spend:

20 points to unlock Tier 4, the best spending of which I'm still experimenting with.

3 points into Deadly Instinct. I tried running this at 2 points - something I always did with KtA - but the rate at which the usages recover is too low to maintain a 1 minute DI. I was constantly running out, which is a huge hit to DCs. Your mileage may vary depending on how quick you're reaching shrines and how lucky you are getting on recovery procs, but I consider the 3 points into DI to be important.

3 points into No Mercy. The OP shows you the value of helpless damage. Where I find it debatable in the Ninja Spy tree at 2 AP a pop (that should be changed imo), at 1 AP a pop, I'd take it over pretty much any other 3 AP that you would possibly spend elsewhere.

1 point into Coordinated Strike. While the long CD takes it off the "you would be stupid to not take this" list, it is still definitely worth it. A 2[W] cleave for a single AP is strong on its own, and it can apply blind and Expose Weakness in a large AOE. It also seems to have the highest chance to give a DI counter, though I have not done any serious testing of this.

1 point into Expose Weakness. It may only have a 10s duration, but it is also the strongest fort debuff in the game having no qualifier (other than having to physically hit the target with the bird attack first) and no build up. When coupled with Coordinated Strike, it can easily increase party DPS against high fort trash like undead/constructs/champs as it will apply to everything, or help against boss targets when coupled with Strike for the Eyes as it can be maintained with that move. Unless you are almost always running with someone that has this ability (as they don't stack with each other), this is well worth the 1 AP.


So while I'm sure it is the latter two that you are giving up for a 26 point spread, I do think you are likely gaining more with the 28. Though don't let my arguments detract you from trying whatever it is that you are looking to do. You may have a spread I didn't think of, or you can have your own playstyle that would work better for you. Enhancements I don't consider as what defines a build as they can be changed at any time to fit a specific quest or need or just for fun.

As for gear, I do admit the Drow Sage's Cowl is drool worthy, especially as it would let me make some useful gear shifting, but the Executioner's Helm is a serious DPS item to have. Seeker is something you want and isn't part of any of the RL sets used; Insightful Deception is +11 SA damage before 1.5x MP scaling, can't be crafted so is tough to fit elsewhere; So while I said there are better options than squeezing in Insightful CM, Quality CM is still useful; Relentless Fury is a 5% DPS boost for trash killing, and this helm is the only end-game item that has it. In short, Legendary Executioner's helm is one of the best DPS helm for any non-caster in the game, and I'd only drop it if you have serious gear deficiencies you need to cover instead.

[Paisheng]

Yes, it has been tested. The Insightful damage and tactics bonuses of abilities (KtA, Divine Will, Divine Presence, Deadly Instincts) stack with the Insightful Damage and Insightful Tactics of equipment. This coding difference not only allows for the stacking, but allows for something extremely important: It allows for the Tactics bonus of abilities to work for Quivering Palm where all equipment bonuses do not. If they were coded as the same, QP would either accept or reject them equally.

Divine Might is the only "trance" ability that does not stack with equipment as both sources of Insightful Strength are coded the same. While STR still has the highest stat potential so still easily competes for Tactics DCs, I do think that this should be changed to stack. I do think STR should continue to be the best DPS potential as STR does not have the advantage alternative stats do.

Wait, experiencing confusion....i just crafted (cc) some insightful combat mastery to some boots but it did not reflect any change in my QP dc value. What equipment are you referring to that gives insightful tactics that will stack onto my QP values?

[DrawingGuy]

You didn't read it right:


It allows for the Tactics bonus of abilities to work for Quivering Palm where all equipment bonuses do not.

No tactics equipment of any type affects QP.

[Paisheng]

You didn't read it right:



No tactics equipment of any type affects QP.

I think I did read it right. You earlier wrote: The Insightful damage and tactics bonuses of abilities (KtA, Divine Will, Divine Presence, Deadly Instincts) stack with the Insightful Damage and Insightful Tactics of equipment.

:D.

But at this point I am understanding that Deadly Instincts insightful tactic bonuses do not stack with any Insightful tactic bonuses from equipment. However Insightful Damage from KTA, Deadly Instincts, etc. do stack with insightful damage from equipment.

[Vish]

I think I did read it right. You earlier wrote: The Insightful damage and tactics bonuses of abilities (KtA, Divine Will, Divine Presence, Deadly Instincts) stack with the Insightful Damage and Insightful Tactics of equipment.

:D.

But at this point I am understanding that Deadly Instincts insightful tactic bonuses do not stack with any Insightful tactic bonuses from equipment. However Insightful Damage from KTA, Deadly Instincts, etc. do stack with insightful damage from equipment.

They stack, but not for qp
It will stack for your dire charge tho, and stunning fist

[Robbenklopper]

...
So while I'm sure it is the latter two that you are giving up for a 26 point spread, I do think you are likely gaining more with the 28. Though don't let my arguments detract you from trying whatever it is that you are looking to do. You may have a spread I didn't think of, or you can have your own playstyle that would work better for you. Enhancements I don't consider as what defines a build as they can be changed at any time to fit a specific quest or need or just for fun. ...

I´m seriously willing to spend 26+ AP in falconry, it´s just ... i can´t spare 2 AP. Human Split is 26 AP Falconry, 41 AP shintao, 1 AP Human (DMG boost) and the last 12 AP (corrected) go into Ninja for SV. I feel i just can´t miss SV, although i have lesser displacement and ghostly. 28 AP would be possible by dropping human and SV ... Hard choice for me.

[Paisheng]

They stack, but not for qp
It will stack for your dire charge tho, and stunning fist

Thank you for confirming; however I use insightful stunning instead of insightful combat because it is higher and impacts both these dcs better. I would have switched to insightful combat if it did indeed stack with QP (which I initially marveled at having apparently misinterpreted Drawing Guy's post).

[DrawingGuy]

I´m seriously willing to spend 26+ AP in falconry, it´s just ... i can´t spare 2 AP. Human Split is 26 AP Falconry, 41 AP shintao, 1 AP Human (DMG boost) and the last 11 AP go into Ninja for SV. I feel i just can´t miss SV, although i have lesser displacement and ghostly. 28 AP would be possible by dropping human and SV ... Hard choice for me.

Not having any Racial past lives definitely makes the choices harder, as you would be able to afford the important Human abilities (AB, up to +4 WIS, Heal Amp) without giving up on the other options. A 41 shintao / 11 Ninja Spy / 28 Falconry I consider to be a very good AP split. But if you can't afford that, it becomes a matter of comparison:

Shadow Veil is indeed an extremely useful move. The 25% Incorporeal is 15% higher than gear, and every chance of not getting hit matters. The easy access to Invisibility can also help you save a quest/raid as you can Phoenix > go invis > raise the healer. Though you can use scrolls/pots/clickies (I always carry a Cloak of Invisibility for this reason) for when an invis is required, leaving the 15% incorp as the only real point of balance. It matters, though if you've built your defenses properly, is the smallest part of them. Also note it doesn't help against Reapers or certain champs. I notice the difference, but the difference is small enough to not affect my play-style or what content I could handle with or without it. So it is not a "must have".

Giving up on SV really does free up some AP. Though in my playing around with AP, I've been seriously questioning if I can afford to give up Knock on the Sky. Where SV doesn't really change what aggro I can handle, Knock most definitely does change what bosses I can handle. And as Unbalancing Strike is needed to give myself 100+ SA damage (as I usually have aggro for bosses, though I still want to help tank aggro DPS too if it is not me) among other small benefits, it too is really needed. So this is what my final AP split is currently looking to be:

4 AP Aasimar / 41 AP Shintao / 28 AP Falconry / 7 AP Ninja Spy

Those that never have aggro, or run only lower Reapers or below could dump Ninja Spy and go to the splits I suggested earlier in this thread, or follow the 41/28/11 if they don't need to put points into racial.


@Paisheng - I thought about adding that clarification in my last post, and guess I should have. Yes, Insightful CM stacks so it will help everything that uses tactics equipment, but as QP does not get equipment bonuses, it doesn't help QP. Insightful CM does not stack with individual Insightful tactics, but you are right that the individual stats go higher. Though the difference is only two. Also boosting Vertigo helps with two important moves: Unbalancing Strike. This qualifies everyone for SA damage, and unless it is a caster that is tanking, that is a metric that matters - I've discussed the importance of Unbalancing strike here and in many other places in the Monk forums. The second move is Trip. Even with low STR, the efforts that take QP into usefulness also take Trip into usefulness. It is a last priority CC, but it's good that if you have some crown or unstunnable target that you need to quickly take out of commission. Though I consider Unbalancing Strike alone to be worth the efforts of fitting in Vertigo bonuses (as evidenced by my gear setup).

[Paisheng]

Not having any Racial past lives definitely makes the choices harder, as you would be able to afford the important Human abilities (AB, up to +4 WIS, Heal Amp) without giving up on the other options. A 41 shintao / 11 Ninja Spy / 28 Falconry I consider to be a very good AP split. But if you can't afford that, it becomes a matter of comparison:

Shadow Veil is indeed an extremely useful move. The 25% Incorporeal is 15% higher than gear, and every chance of not getting hit matters. The easy access to Invisibility can also help you save a quest/raid as you can Phoenix > go invis > raise the healer. Though you can use scrolls/pots/clickies (I always carry a Cloak of Invisibility for this reason) for when an invis is required, leaving the 15% incorp as the only real point of balance. It matters, though if you've built your defenses properly, is the smallest part of them. Also note it doesn't help against Reapers or certain champs. I notice the difference, but the difference is small enough to not affect my play-style or what content I could handle with or without it. So it is not a "must have".

Giving up on SV really does free up some AP. Though in my playing around with AP, I've been seriously questioning if I can afford to give up Knock on the Sky. Where SV doesn't really change what aggro I can handle, Knock most definitely does change what bosses I can handle. And as Unbalancing Strike is needed to give myself 100+ SA damage (as I usually have aggro for bosses, though I still want to help tank aggro DPS too if it is not me) among other small benefits, it too is really needed. So this is what my final AP split is currently looking to be:

4 AP Aasimar / 41 AP Shintao / 28 AP Falconry / 7 AP Ninja Spy

Those that never have aggro, or run only lower Reapers or below could dump Ninja Spy and go to the splits I suggested earlier in this thread, or follow the 41/28/11 if they don't need to put points into racial.


@Paisheng - I thought about adding that clarification in my last post, and guess I should have. Yes, Insightful CM stacks so it will help everything that uses tactics equipment, but as QP does not get equipment bonuses, it doesn't help QP. Insightful CM does not stack with individual Insightful tactics, but you are right that the individual stats go higher. Though the difference is only two. Also boosting Vertigo helps with two important moves: Unbalancing Strike. This qualifies everyone for SA damage, and unless it is a caster that is tanking, that is a metric that matters - I've discussed the importance of Unbalancing strike here and in many other places in the Monk forums. The second move is Trip. Even with low STR, the efforts that take QP into usefulness also take Trip into usefulness. It is a last priority CC, but it's good that if you have some crown or unstunnable target that you need to quickly take out of commission. Though I consider Unbalancing Strike alone to be worth the efforts of fitting in Vertigo bonuses (as evidenced by my gear setup).

Drawing Guy, I have not toyed with unbalancing strike in my 80+ monk lives and I know I definitively should. With the new falconry cc bird attacks everything uses stun bonuses so I think I will for the time stick with the insightful stun over ins. combat. After level 16 or so I pretty much hide my trip from use (low dc without str now anyway) and still of course have Jade strike, tomb of jade, the falconry tier 4 attack and of course stunning fist).

Though I am curious that you take 7 ninja tree, presumably to take Unbalancing Strike -- but which elemental monk attack do you prefer take in the Shintao tree then (or vice versa)? I am struggling between nice Fist of Iron DPS strke of and debilitating bosses with the Wind Knock on the Sky.

In any case I am with you on the power of the tier 4 Falconry - I usually do a 27 point build there avoiding the Expose Weakness -- I am not convinced that 10 secs is long enough debuff -- but maybe for 1 point it is. How long is the cool down on that though to reuse? And does it put all your other bird attacks on cool down? I need to weigh that info before fully committing.

My general breakdown is 42 Shintao (I take all 5 tier 5's -- don't you?) 4 Aasimar (Ascendant Bond --either fallen or celestial well worth it) 27 into Falconry leaving me 7 points to play with --usually 2 more for 20 more heal amp from Aasimar and then a mixed bag of trees to flesh out melee power, dodge, etc as my current build may need).

Just as a side note -- this weekend I am going to take capstone and tier 5s in Falconry to see how that plays, though I will likely go back to Shintao for the hand wrap power, crits, etc. offered there. Still I anticipate fun from the variety.

[DrawingGuy]

Drawing Guy, I have not toyed with unbalancing strike in my 80+ monk lives and I know I definitively should. With the new falconry cc bird attacks everything uses stun bonuses so I think I will for the time stick with the insightful stun over ins. combat. After level 16 or so I pretty much hide my trip from use (low dc without str now anyway) and still of course have Jade strike, tomb of jade, the falconry tier 4 attack and of course stunning fist).

Though I am curious that you take 7 ninja tree, presumably to take Unbalancing Strike -- but which elemental monk attack do you prefer take in the Shintao tree then (or vice versa)? I am struggling between nice Fist of Iron DPS strke of and debilitating bosses with the Wind Knock on the Sky.

In any case I am with you on the power of the tier 4 Falconry - I usually do a 27 point build there avoiding the Expose Weakness -- I am not convinced that 10 secs is long enough debuff -- but maybe for 1 point it is. How long is the cool down on that though to reuse? And does it put all your other bird attacks on cool down? I need to weigh that info before fully committing.

My general breakdown is 42 Shintao (I take all 5 tier 5's -- don't you?) 4 Aasimar (Ascendant Bond --either fallen or celestial well worth it) 27 into Falconry leaving me 7 points to play with --usually 2 more for 20 more heal amp from Aasimar and then a mixed bag of trees to flesh out melee power, dodge, etc as my current build may need).

Just as a side note -- this weekend I am going to take capstone and tier 5s in Falconry to see how that plays, though I will likely go back to Shintao for the hand wrap power, crits, etc. offered there. Still I anticipate fun from the variety.


Fists of Iron is indeed a great DPS move, but that is all it is. I consider Unbalancing Strike to be a superior move for DPS. It also is a +3[W] attack, but rather than doing the multiplier, it qualifies for Sneak Attack damage. Even if all you have is the SA from using my suggested gear, that is still 35 SA damage * MP * 1.5. Assuming you are running ~250 Melee Power, that can translate to 180+ damage (though, of course, this gets scaled down by Reaper, but so would Iron). On every single hit, doublestrike, offhand strike. There's a reason that Scion of Ethereal is the best DPS of the Scion feats, especially on TWF. So unless you are fighting a SA immune target like an undead, Unbalancing Strike is the best move you can take for DPS. It also has smaller benefits such as reducing AC by 2 (which is the same as giving the entire party +4 accuracy to increase DPS with fewer grazings), and if you need to trip a target it helps ensure they stay down for the full duration.

Knock on the Sky is -20% damage. This can be the difference of a boss being able to one-shot you or not. This can be the difference between a healer (or self-healing on mid reapers) being able to keep you up or not. Or even if you are not tanking, the same benefit can apply to them. It is a huge debuff that only becomes more important the higher the Reaper you run, or in raids with stupidly hard hitting mechanics like Legendary TS.

Eagle Claw attack is a fast way to stack Destruction, an important debuff that is too often ignored. Though Deconstructor augment is a worthy substitute for this move.

I'd only ever take Fists of Iron if I was getting the Ki Strike from all three trees. Until then, Unbalancing Strike is far too important of a move, and Knock too strong of a debuff to give up for it imo. And between those two, I'd take Unbalancing if I locked myself to a single move.


Yes, Expose Weakness is indeed a high maintenance move with a duration of only 10s. However in most cases of trash killing, that is all you need anyways. And for bosses, it can be maintained by Strike for the Eyes, which also is on a 10s CD. Add in the fact that this is supporting the whole party, it is well worth the effort and 1 AP. Unless you are consistently running content with few fortified mobs, or you regularly run with someone else that has it loaded, I wouldn't drop it.


Lastly, Shintao. I currently do not take all of the T5 abilities. I've always found Kokan-Do very clunky as you have to stop everything for a second or two to cast it - I'd much rather take that time to DPS down the target I just used Stunning Fist on, QPing, Jading, etc. I also already stretch the limits of a +3 Ki item in Ki usage, and Kokan-Do only makes it worse unless I'm in a bad party/solo. I may be unique in that sentiment, but you can still get this if you forgo another of the T5 abilities: Violence Begets Violence. This ability is either very weak or very strong. In a party with good CC or quests with sparse mobs, this move will not trigger often and rarely beyond +1, making it a 3 AP spend (Instinct Defenses is junk) rather steep for a partial up-time single crit range boost. However if you are rolling lower reapers where you can run without being just pocket DPS to a caster and grab aggro of groups, this becomes quite strong. Pay attention to how often you see it trigger to help judge if it is worth it to you or not. If you're looking for a high-reaper build (as this is what this thread covers), generally the only way to run it is with a 0 DPS tank, following a caster, or cheesing it -- all of which would make VBV rather useless. I hope the melee/reaper pass will change that requirement.


Whatever the case is, Falconry has definitely put some decisions on our plates. All but one of the T4 abilities in the tree are extremely strong, and there are other abilities that are needed as well.

[Dalsheel]

Fists of Iron is indeed a great DPS move, but that is all it is. I consider Unbalancing Strike to be a superior move for DPS. It also is a +3[W] attack, but rather than doing the multiplier, it qualifies for Sneak Attack damage. Even if all you have is the SA from using my suggested gear, that is still 35 SA damage * MP * 1.5. Assuming you are running ~250 Melee Power, that can translate to 180+ damage (though, of course, this gets scaled down by Reaper, but so would Iron). On every single hit, doublestrike, offhand strike. There's a reason that Scion of Ethereal is the best DPS of the Scion feats, especially on TWF. So unless you are fighting a SA immune target like an undead, Unbalancing Strike is the best move you can take for DPS. It also has smaller benefits such as reducing AC by 2 (which is the same as giving the entire party +4 accuracy to increase DPS with fewer grazings), and if you need to trip a target it helps ensure they stay down for the full duration.

Unbalancing Strike does very little DPS wise if you have Improved Deception item (Echo of Ravenkind (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Echo_of_Ravenkind) most probably). I still use it for other reasons (see below), but its DPS value as a Sneak Attack enabler is not what you think.


Yes, Expose Weakness is indeed a high maintenance move with a duration of only 10s. However in most cases of trash killing, that is all you need anyways. And for bosses, it can be maintained by Strike for the Eyes, which also is on a 10s CD. Add in the fact that this is supporting the whole party, it is well worth the effort and 1 AP. Unless you are consistently running content with few fortified mobs, or you regularly run with someone else that has it loaded, I wouldn't drop it.

Strike for the Eyes doesn't proc Expose Weakness. Probably bugged, but that's how it is right now. Also, Strike for the Eyes is very clunky and slow and disrupts your attack sequence. You're better off using Diving Attack. It's faster, it procs Expose Weakness and synergizes with Unbalancing Strike for the knockdown part.


Lastly, Shintao. I currently do not take all of the T5 abilities. I've always found Kokan-Do very clunky as you have to stop everything for a second or two to cast it - I'd much rather take that time to DPS down the target I just used Stunning Fist on, QPing, Jading, etc. I also already stretch the limits of a +3 Ki item in Ki usage, and Kokan-Do only makes it worse unless I'm in a bad party/solo. I may be unique in that sentiment, but you can still get this if you forgo another of the T5 abilities: Violence Begets Violence. This ability is either very weak or very strong. In a party with good CC or quests with sparse mobs, this move will not trigger often and rarely beyond +1, making it a 3 AP spend (Instinct Defenses is junk) rather steep for a partial up-time single crit range boost. However if you are rolling lower reapers where you can run without being just pocket DPS to a caster and grab aggro of groups, this becomes quite strong. Pay attention to how often you see it trigger to help judge if it is worth it to you or not. If you're looking for a high-reaper build (as this is what this thread covers), generally the only way to run it is with a 0 DPS tank, following a caster, or cheesing it -- all of which would make VBV rather useless. I hope the melee/reaper pass will change that requirement.

Ku-Kan-Do is absolutely a must-have. It works on any distance, it doesn't lock you in place, you can move and cast it and it's a great tool for stunning reapers who are on top of your teammates... like when a reaper spawns behind the party and aggros on the cleric for example. I can't imagine playing a Shintao without this signature Shintao move. Also VbV procs out of every layer of defense your character has, AC, Dodge, Incorporiality, Deflect Arrows, Elusive Target. I don't know what your experience with it has been, but it works great for me. Unless you're running with triple CC party compositions and absolutely everything is CCed 100% of the time, this enhancement is sure to give you value.

[DrawingGuy]

Unbalancing Strike does very little DPS wise if you have Improved Deception item (Echo of Ravenkind (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Echo_of_Ravenkind) most probably). I still use it for other reasons (see below), but its DPS value as a Sneak Attack enabler is not what you think.

Indeed, if there are other sources that are providing the SA qualifier, Unbalancing Strike loses some of its importance... however my gear setup does NOT have that. Unbalancing Strike is also a reliable source to have SA qualify 100% of the time and on demand without any risk of cold cycles due to bad RNG with Imp Deception. Though if you do run with Imp Deception and have room for only a single Ki Strike, then that would place Knock higher on the list.


Strike for the Eyes doesn't proc Expose Weakness. Probably bugged, but that's how it is right now. Also, Strike for the Eyes is very clunky and slow and disrupts your attack sequence. You're better off using Diving Attack. It's faster, it procs Expose Weakness and synergizes with Unbalancing Strike for the knockdown part.

Both Strike for the Eyes and Diving Attack have the same animation and both interrupt your attack sequence. Expose Weakness does indeed work for Strike for the Eyes - I've watched the examine bar, and and start getting crits on fort targets while having no other source of fort bypass. Strike for the Eyes is the only attack that can maintain Expose Weakness on a boss targets, as well as being the fastest way to stack Tear Flesh.

Diving Attack is the superior CC, but that clunkiness (2s delay for melee) puts a serious crimp on it. If it is a serious threat, I want a CC that is more immediate. Add in that they are indeed DPS losses unless they can survive long enough for Tear Flesh stacking and/or Fort Bypass DPS to outweigh the attack sequence delay, I typically only use Coordinated Strike on trash unless I need to regain some DI uses.

So I see the real question as do you take only Strike for the Eyes, or both?


Ku-Kan-Do is absolutely a must-have. It works on any distance, it doesn't lock you in place, you can move and cast it and it's a great tool for stunning reapers who are on top of your teammates... like when a reaper spawns behind the party and aggros on the cleric for example. I can't imagine playing a Shintao without this signature Shintao move. Also VbV procs out of every layer of defense your character has, AC, Dodge, Incorporiality, Deflect Arrows, Elusive Target. I don't know what your experience with it has been, but it works great for me. Unless you're running with triple CC party compositions and absolutely everything is CCed 100% of the time, this enhancement is sure to give you value.

This I feel stupid for not testing - I didn't realize Kukan-Do worked on Reapers. Losing the second or two casting it in combat breaks up what I already would have been able to handle and I've found it to generally hurt rather than help me outside of using it running up. However it working on Reapers is a needed layer of control that Jades do not fully cover, so it definitely is a must have.

Also VBV isn't valueless, it is a matter of the range of that value and whether it is worth 3 AP. When I'm running R10s, I could count the number of times it would proc on one hand for the entire run. When you're a 1-shot, you can't rely on miss-chances. As you run easier difficulties, and/or are able to have more things swing at you, VBV increases in value. The OP didn't take it - I generally do. Though taking Kukan-Do places a decision as I either cannot have both, or I need to give up a point somewhere else.

[jskinner937]

Insightful Deadly from Legendary Ring of Nightfall stacks with KTA; I tested this a month or so ago. Static target, no vulnerability stacks, and deliberately scaled down the amount of total Melee Power I had to pinpoint a difference. Both tests with and without the Insightful Deadly had the same amount of Intelligence from KTA. The damage does indeed stack with each other; this, with the Intelligence boost, makes it an extremely strong ring slot.



Yeah, I agree that the LGS setup is stronger; though I should also mention that I didn't include all of the gear that I periodically swap to in the spreadsheet. I usually swap to Legendary Mantle of the Dwarven Commander prior to beating on bosses if they save my initial Unbalancing Strike. I might find a +20/+22 item to swap to instead, as I'm swapping an item anyway. Deconstructor is something I'm definitely going to look into. Whenever I get more larges, going to craft Good Weapons as an active and replace Ruby of Good with Deconstructor. Good call on this one :D If the 1-second delay gets removed, I had plans on running Nystul's Mystical Defense instead of Prowess - and swapping to Prowess only prior to action-boosting. Most of my deaths are from magical damage, and mitigating as much of it as possible is essential. To meet this MRR cap, and to squeeze in a little more DPS, I was also planning on removing the Unconcious Range +128 entirely and replacing it with Hide +22. From there, can swap Legendary Shadowhail Cloak for The Invisible Cloak of Strahd; and then Legendary Disciple of the Dawn for Patience Through Peril, for slightly more sneak dps.

If I were to do this, I'd be taking dangerous steps away from physical survivability to lean towards magical absorption. I figure I can stomach -9 saves, as I'm already not failing anything unless it's a 1 (my saves are even higher on Aasimar than Half-Orc), though the -9 AC and so forth will hurt. I can simply augment a Heavy Fortification sapphire to offset the loss of Legendary Disciple of the Dawn. I'd be more prone to die from physical damage, though MRR and absorption from the filigrees themselves provide a much-needed barrier versus magical. I'd get +100 HP from using this 5-Piece set anyway; all of which make the drawbacks seem worthwhile for the benefits. All of this depends on the 1-second cooldown being eliminated, though, as I'd lose too much time off of the 10-second Prowess window due to weapon-swapping.


I am curious to see if you have ever looked at shintao monk using falconer tree. I was planning to do one but I have no access yet as I am penalized since I am a routine contributor to the game and still pay for VIP.

All joking aside, falconer gives + to hit/dmg for wisdom and some other decent stuff such as +10/20/30% damage to helpless. Doubt The pet would be much helpful outside of trip in epics but it could eliminate points spent in ninja spy tree. I also planned on looking. At Aasimar as the complimentary race in lieu of H-Orc.

[Tipunch]

Hello,
can someone please, explain me how Symbiiont can have on his stat DEX 76, Con 79, int 68, WIS 70 ?
So many stat so high ?

Im lvl 30, no raid gear, but still some stuff, and i have DEX 58, Con 56, int 28, Wis 77...………….

I have 77 on Wisdom, because i spent all my point in WIS.

Im completionis, racial completionist, tome +8, but still, looks like impossible to have more than 70 in any other ability than wisdom.
He has 20 more in DEX and CON ?? 40 points ?
The raid gear give you that 40 ability point ??

Thanks for any enlightment you can give to me :))

[Selvera]

Check out the gear that he uses. Pay close attention to the augments. Also reaper points.

I made this build; and while I was missing completionist/racial completionist/tomes (mine are +5 average) and reaper points; I was within 5-6 points of him in all stats, the missing stat points easily accounted for by seeing what bonuses I would get with more reaper points, better tomes or more pastlives.

[Tipunch]

Check out the gear that he uses. Pay close attention to the augments. Also reaper points.

I made this build; and while I was missing completionist/racial completionist/tomes (mine are +5 average) and reaper points; I was within 5-6 points of him in all stats, the missing stat points easily accounted for by seeing what bonuses I would get with more reaper points, better tomes or more pastlives.

Thanks :)

[Asteny]

Would you be kind enough to show the progression on the enhancement trees. Would you prioritize the Shintao tree first for instance? Following this build with an Aasimar and putting it in Wisdom with one point in dex to get to 17 but my starting stats were 8/16/14/14/18/8 . So my wisdom is higher and dex will need one point for the whirlwind attack. I read the whole thread and came to the conclusion that based on the nerfs to the trees it is better to go wisdom. I guess I can restart if I need to redistribute my stats. Just started yesterday. I will try the distribution as suggested further in the thread but keep the feats as it was in the original build.

This suggestion
'Falconry is indeed the way to go for Monks now - especially for a DC build like I am. Unfortunately much of what you need is deep in the tree, forcing heavy investment. Though with the nerf to Henshin, and Ninja Spy not gaining too much advantage beyond a 12 AP dip (especially as No Mercy is overlapped anyways), this can be afforded.

As a pure Monk handwrap user, you want the 41 AP spend in Shintao. To get the DC advantage along with the WIS to attack/damage, you need a minimum of 21 into Falconry. This means 62 AP is locked, with 18 to play with.

This 18 is where decisions get tough:

I find two Ki Strikes to be very important. Knock on the Sky is 10% damage reduction, and Unbalancing Strike gives you Sneak Attack damage when you have aggro. Both are very important if you are the Monk tank as they are components of survival and DPS. Investing 11-12 AP into Ninja Spy will net me that along with dodge cap bonus for more survival and Shadow Veil for 15% more incorporeal (or 25% if you don't have a Ghostly item on). However, beyond survival boosts, Ninja Spy lost its second main reason for investment: we no longer need the DEX to hit/damage. With half the reason gone, I find myself leaning towards dumping Ninja Spy and debating between Unbalancing for SA damage and Knock for 10% damage reduction. If you run Ethereal, Unbalancing is clearly better, but Falconry provides some more reasons to go Astral Plane.

Going even deeper into Falconry provides several advantages. First is that Deadly Instinct (your DC move) is limited use, so you really want that at 2 or 3. No Mercy is a large DPS increase for trash killing, especially on a class that is quite good at CC. The cores, while nothing to write home about, are still great AP spends as they give +3 MP, PRR, and MRR for only 1 AP. Bird attacks are needed for Deadly Instinct maintenance, and have the potential to be additional CC. In short, you can quite easily spend your extra points in it.

There are, of course, still other spends I like:

- Aasimar cores and T5 bond -- 4+ AP depending on amount of racial PLs
- Vistani offers a cheap 25% neg resist along with PRR and MRR. Undead Favored Enemy stacks with Animal Favored Enemy for +4 to both. A little more can net you Haste Boost, Deflect Arrows, and Double Strike (including one of the few ways to increase offhand Doublestrike) -- 3-11 AP
- Henshin first core for 3 MP and PRR is still a good deal for 1AP, and Animal Stance is also worth the 2 AP -- 1-3 AP


Personally, this is how I plan on spending my AP:

41 Shintao
31 Falconry
4 Aasimar
3 Vistani
1 Henshin


The other debate that I mentioned is Ethereal or Astral Scion. Ethereal is by far the biggest DPS increase, but by going Astral you are not only boosting your Quivering Palm that needs every boost it can get, but your Falconry moves as well as assassination sources are harder to fit and rarer. Two more Helpless CCs is respectable, though albeit currently clunky due to bird attack delay. Really I think this will boil down to personal choice/situation: Is CC generally handled by casters in your party anyways? Ethereal will serve you better. Do you tend to just auto-attack anyways? Ethereal serves you better. You find yourself as the main form of CC in the party? That extra CC as well as more reliable QP can be more important, making Astral more worthwhile.

I currently don't have static parties, and often solo/pug, so I'll probably be taking Astral. Also not needing to invest in Hide is nice, though I'll just be wanting to fit Assassinate in its place if I can. We'll see if that lasts, or if the near double damage advantage of Ethereal over Astral (the math varies hugely depending on gear) calls me too hard. But I do like QP spam a lot, and it's fun when it is basically no-fail... wah'

[Arkat]

Would you be kind enough to show the progression on the enhancement trees. Would you prioritize the Shintao tree first for instance? Following this build with an Aasimar and putting it in Wisdom with one point in dex to get to 17 but my starting stats were 8/16/14/14/18/8 . So my wisdom is higher and dex will need one point for the whirlwind attack. I read the whole thread and came to the conclusion that based on the nerfs to the trees it is better to go wisdom. I guess I can restart if I need to redistribute my stats. Just started yesterday. I will try the distribution as suggested further in the thread but keep the feats as it was in the original build.

This suggestion
'Falconry is indeed the way to go for Monks now - especially for a DC build like I am. Unfortunately much of what you need is deep in the tree, forcing heavy investment. Though with the nerf to Henshin, and Ninja Spy not gaining too much advantage beyond a 12 AP dip (especially as No Mercy is overlapped anyways), this can be afforded.

As a pure Monk handwrap user, you want the 41 AP spend in Shintao. To get the DC advantage along with the WIS to attack/damage, you need a minimum of 21 into Falconry. This means 62 AP is locked, with 18 to play with.

This 18 is where decisions get tough:

I find two Ki Strikes to be very important. Knock on the Sky is 10% damage reduction, and Unbalancing Strike gives you Sneak Attack damage when you have aggro. Both are very important if you are the Monk tank as they are components of survival and DPS. Investing 11-12 AP into Ninja Spy will net me that along with dodge cap bonus for more survival and Shadow Veil for 15% more incorporeal (or 25% if you don't have a Ghostly item on). However, beyond survival boosts, Ninja Spy lost its second main reason for investment: we no longer need the DEX to hit/damage. With half the reason gone, I find myself leaning towards dumping Ninja Spy and debating between Unbalancing for SA damage and Knock for 10% damage reduction. If you run Ethereal, Unbalancing is clearly better, but Falconry provides some more reasons to go Astral Plane.

Going even deeper into Falconry provides several advantages. First is that Deadly Instinct (your DC move) is limited use, so you really want that at 2 or 3. No Mercy is a large DPS increase for trash killing, especially on a class that is quite good at CC. The cores, while nothing to write home about, are still great AP spends as they give +3 MP, PRR, and MRR for only 1 AP. Bird attacks are needed for Deadly Instinct maintenance, and have the potential to be additional CC. In short, you can quite easily spend your extra points in it.

There are, of course, still other spends I like:

- Aasimar cores and T5 bond -- 4+ AP depending on amount of racial PLs
- Vistani offers a cheap 25% neg resist along with PRR and MRR. Undead Favored Enemy stacks with Animal Favored Enemy for +4 to both. A little more can net you Haste Boost, Deflect Arrows, and Double Strike (including one of the few ways to increase offhand Doublestrike) -- 3-11 AP
- Henshin first core for 3 MP and PRR is still a good deal for 1AP, and Animal Stance is also worth the 2 AP -- 1-3 AP


Personally, this is how I plan on spending my AP:

41 Shintao
31 Falconry
4 Aasimar
3 Vistani
1 Henshin


The other debate that I mentioned is Ethereal or Astral Scion. Ethereal is by far the biggest DPS increase, but by going Astral you are not only boosting your Quivering Palm that needs every boost it can get, but your Falconry moves as well as assassination sources are harder to fit and rarer. Two more Helpless CCs is respectable, though albeit currently clunky due to bird attack delay. Really I think this will boil down to personal choice/situation: Is CC generally handled by casters in your party anyways? Ethereal will serve you better. Do you tend to just auto-attack anyways? Ethereal serves you better. You find yourself as the main form of CC in the party? That extra CC as well as more reliable QP can be more important, making Astral more worthwhile.

I currently don't have static parties, and often solo/pug, so I'll probably be taking Astral. Also not needing to invest in Hide is nice, though I'll just be wanting to fit Assassinate in its place if I can. We'll see if that lasts, or if the near double damage advantage of Ethereal over Astral (the math varies hugely depending on gear) calls me too hard. But I do like QP spam a lot, and it's fun when it is basically no-fail... wah'

FYI, Symbiont posted this build two years ago. Some of it is no longer up-to-date. Also, Symbiont hasn't posted anything here in the DDO Forums since last December. You might not get an answer from him if he's left the game.

[Asteny]

I guess I will have to muddle through then thanks for the reply.

[DrawingGuy]

More than Symbiont plays Monk. He dropped monk long ago anyways.


Would you be kind enough to show the progression on the enhancement trees. Would you prioritize the Shintao tree first for instance? Following this build with an Aasimar and putting it in Wisdom with one point in dex to get to 17 but my starting stats were 8/16/14/14/18/8 . So my wisdom is higher and dex will need one point for the whirlwind attack. I read the whole thread and came to the conclusion that based on the nerfs to the trees it is better to go wisdom. I guess I can restart if I need to redistribute my stats. Just started yesterday. I will try the distribution as suggested further in the thread but keep the feats as it was in the original build.

Things have indeed changed. Ethereal is now a static feat (6d6 SA and 5 MP/RP) meaning that Hide is no longer needed for DPS and Sneak of Shadows past life loses a lot of its power. This also removes DEX as being a double dip for DPS (giving both damage and SA damage). Unless you don't have Falconry, WIS is the way to go. The game balance has also put Monk a bit on the back foot for survival and DPS with unevadable spell damage in Sharn and major THF buffs. This means if you are not leaning into the amazing support that Monk can provide, then you are just turning yourself into a less effective melee. I now strongly favor Scion of the Astral Plan as it boosts QP and all of your CC.

As for starting stats, it depends what tomes you have and what you need to even out your end-game stats (as tomes, Reaper trees, racial PLs, and gear would dictate that). I like maxing out WIS, especially if you care about Quivering Palm. Also helps if you go Mass Frog over Tactician (strongly suggested as Mass Frog is good for undead and constructs, which RL and Sharn are heavy on). Do you not have any tomes?


This suggestion
'Falconry is indeed the way to go for Monks now - especially for a DC build like I am. Unfortunately much of what you need is deep in the tree, forcing heavy investment. Though with the nerf to Henshin, and Ninja Spy not gaining too much advantage beyond a 12 AP dip (especially as No Mercy is overlapped anyways), this can be afforded.

As a pure Monk handwrap user, you want the 41 AP spend in Shintao. To get the DC advantage along with the WIS to attack/damage, you need a minimum of 21 into Falconry. This means 62 AP is locked, with 18 to play with.

This 18 is where decisions get tough:

I find two Ki Strikes to be very important. Knock on the Sky is 10% damage reduction, and Unbalancing Strike gives you Sneak Attack damage when you have aggro. Both are very important if you are the Monk tank as they are components of survival and DPS. Investing 11-12 AP into Ninja Spy will net me that along with dodge cap bonus for more survival and Shadow Veil for 15% more incorporeal (or 25% if you don't have a Ghostly item on). However, beyond survival boosts, Ninja Spy lost its second main reason for investment: we no longer need the DEX to hit/damage. With half the reason gone, I find myself leaning towards dumping Ninja Spy and debating between Unbalancing for SA damage and Knock for 10% damage reduction. If you run Ethereal, Unbalancing is clearly better, but Falconry provides some more reasons to go Astral Plane.

Going even deeper into Falconry provides several advantages. First is that Deadly Instinct (your DC move) is limited use, so you really want that at 2 or 3. No Mercy is a large DPS increase for trash killing, especially on a class that is quite good at CC. The cores, while nothing to write home about, are still great AP spends as they give +3 MP, PRR, and MRR for only 1 AP. Bird attacks are needed for Deadly Instinct maintenance, and have the potential to be additional CC. In short, you can quite easily spend your extra points in it.

There are, of course, still other spends I like:

- Aasimar cores and T5 bond -- 4+ AP depending on amount of racial PLs
- Vistani offers a cheap 25% neg resist along with PRR and MRR. Undead Favored Enemy stacks with Animal Favored Enemy for +4 to both. A little more can net you Haste Boost, Deflect Arrows, and Double Strike (including one of the few ways to increase offhand Doublestrike) -- 3-11 AP
- Henshin first core for 3 MP and PRR is still a good deal for 1AP, and Animal Stance is also worth the 2 AP -- 1-3 AP


Personally, this is how I plan on spending my AP:

41 Shintao
31 Falconry
4 Aasimar
3 Vistani
1 Henshin

AP spends is affected by how many Racial PLs you have. 42 Shintao is actually the best spend as all of the T5s matter. Not only does Deadly Instincts provide the key to usable QP DCs, but Expose Weakness is a massive debuff that is silly to give up. Add in the ability to mass apply that debuff (coordinated), and the DPS No Mercy provides, you're at 26. 27 for a more usable Deadly Instincts as 30s is difficult to keep going even with 3 bird attacks, but 1 min is fine. This puts it at 69 AP locked. You can give up a Shintao T5 or a Falconry T4 if you're desperate, but I consider it a loss in most cases. Leaves only 11 to play with - 12 if you have a Universal tree tome. You can use this to get another Ki Strike and in Aasimar. If you have ALL racial PLs and a +2 Racial PL tome, you could potentially give up VBV in Shintao or a point in Falconry to afford a 16 Aasimar, 41/42 Shintao, 26/27 Falconry, 11 Ninja Spy. When they release Shifter, you wouldn't even need to give up that point.

I do think it is important to try to get at least two Ki Strikes as they're so good.

- Unbalancing Strikes: SA damage on demand and -2 AC to the target. If you don't have a typical way to qualify for SA (you normally have aggro and/or do not have an Imp Deception item) this is a huge DPS increase. In short, if you have Imp Deception or run with a tank often enough, you can drop it; Otherwise take it.
- Knock on the Sky: This is a pretty major debuff and used to be the key to my "monk tank". The game has killed Monk tanks between Ki Shout being broken and the MRR cap hurting so much in newer content, but you may still find yourself filling that role or with a tank that needs the support. If you static run with a tank that doesn't need the support (or with another monk that uses it), you can drop it; Otherwise take it.
- Fists of Iron: This is the move you WANT. If you can afford to drop the utility of Unbalancing Strikes or Knock, you NEED to take this one. Fists of Iron is not only your strongest single DPS move, but it fits in the DPS combo that you want to be spamming every second that you are not doing something else: Earth > Earth > Earth. There's a reason a +3 Ki item is a game changer for how monks play. Ki Strikes and Elemental Moves do not interrupt your attack cycle, they are flat increases to DPS. Use them!

Eagle Claw attack is a non-choice as the other three are MUCH better and you can just use a Deconstructor augment.

I also think people underestimate Bird attacks. Yes, it is delayed, but you can also use it at any range and do not interrupt any monk combo cycles (though do interrupt your attack cycle). Something perched where you can't reach? Knock it down or blind it and give the ranged/casters helpless damage + 50% fort bypass. Want to pull something? Bird it. Tomb of Jade on cooldown and can't stun the mob? Bird it to still get your helpless damage. Coordinated Strike mass applies the fort bypass and blinds, which really helps against ranged enemies. In short bird attacks help give monks more supplemental CC and helpless triggers as well as more ways to apply it at range. If your caster is good enough to no-fail everything, then that need falls flat, but that pretty most of monks abilities. I personally found myself needing to do it often enough to be more than worth it, but I also often pug. Bird attacks even without Assassinate investment still are providing your party 50% fort bypass, so Coordinated for mob groups and Strike for the Eyes to maintain it on a boss is still strong.



The other debate that I mentioned is Ethereal or Astral Scion. Ethereal is by far the biggest DPS increase, but by going Astral you are not only boosting your Quivering Palm that needs every boost it can get, but your Falconry moves as well as assassination sources are harder to fit and rarer. Two more Helpless CCs is respectable, though albeit currently clunky due to bird attack delay. Really I think this will boil down to personal choice/situation: Is CC generally handled by casters in your party anyways? Ethereal will serve you better. Do you tend to just auto-attack anyways? Ethereal serves you better. You find yourself as the main form of CC in the party? That extra CC as well as more reliable QP can be more important, making Astral more worthwhile.

I currently don't have static parties, and often solo/pug, so I'll probably be taking Astral. Also not needing to invest in Hide is nice, though I'll just be wanting to fit Assassinate in its place if I can. We'll see if that lasts, or if the near double damage advantage of Ethereal over Astral (the math varies hugely depending on gear) calls me too hard. But I do like QP spam a lot, and it's fun when it is basically no-fail... wah'

Already discussed this, but the main point is Ethereal has changed since this thread was made. You don't need to worry about hide in any case (unless you want a sneaky monk). Ethereal and Arborea are indeed better DPS options, but the utility gain for QP and bird attacks makes Astral worth it in my book.

Your situational question of "Do you tend to just auto-attack anyways?" I would counter with, if so, Monk is not really for you. Monk is a class with a ton of abilities and combos. You may have to pick and choose while leveling due to Ki restraints (sadly making them less fun in heroics), but at end game you should always be doing something. If you are not doing that you are leaving DPS and utility on the table and there are classes that are MUCH better auto-attackers. Their complexity is what makes them so fun to me, though I know that isn't for everyone.

[Asteny]

More than Symbiont plays Monk. He dropped monk long ago anyways.



Things have indeed changed. Ethereal is now a static feat (6d6 SA and 5 MP/RP) meaning that Hide is no longer needed for DPS and Sneak of Shadows past life loses a lot of its power. This also removes DEX as being a double dip for DPS (giving both damage and SA damage). Unless you don't have Falconry, WIS is the way to go. The game balance has also put Monk a bit on the back foot for survival and DPS with unevadable spell damage in Sharn and major THF buffs. This means if you are not leaning into the amazing support that Monk can provide, then you are just turning yourself into a less effective melee. I now strongly favor Scion of the Astral Plan as it boosts QP and all of your CC.

As for starting stats, it depends what tomes you have and what you need to even out your end-game stats (as tomes, Reaper trees, racial PLs, and gear would dictate that). I like maxing out WIS, especially if you care about Quivering Palm. Also helps if you go Mass Frog over Tactician (strongly suggested as Mass Frog is good for undead and constructs, which RL and Sharn are heavy on). Do you not have any tomes?



AP spends is affected by how many Racial PLs you have. 42 Shintao is actually the best spend as all of the T5s matter. Not only does Deadly Instincts provide the key to usable QP DCs, but Expose Weakness is a massive debuff that is silly to give up. Add in the ability to mass apply that debuff (coordinated), and the DPS No Mercy provides, you're at 26. 27 for a more usable Deadly Instincts as 30s is difficult to keep going even with 3 bird attacks, but 1 min is fine. This puts it at 69 AP locked. You can give up a Shintao T5 or a Falconry T4 if you're desperate, but I consider it a loss in most cases. Leaves only 11 to play with - 12 if you have a Universal tree tome. You can use this to get another Ki Strike and in Aasimar. If you have ALL racial PLs and a +2 Racial PL tome, you could potentially give up VBV in Shintao or a point in Falconry to afford a 16 Aasimar, 41/42 Shintao, 26/27 Falconry, 11 Ninja Spy. When they release Shifter, you wouldn't even need to give up that point.

I do think it is important to try to get at least two Ki Strikes as they're so good.

- Unbalancing Strikes: SA damage on demand and -2 AC to the target. If you don't have a typical way to qualify for SA (you normally have aggro and/or do not have an Imp Deception item) this is a huge DPS increase. In short, if you have Imp Deception or run with a tank often enough, you can drop it; Otherwise take it.
- Knock on the Sky: This is a pretty major debuff and used to be the key to my "monk tank". The game has killed Monk tanks between Ki Shout being broken and the MRR cap hurting so much in newer content, but you may still find yourself filling that role or with a tank that needs the support. If you static run with a tank that doesn't need the support (or with another monk that uses it), you can drop it; Otherwise take it.
- Fists of Iron: This is the move you WANT. If you can afford to drop the utility of Unbalancing Strikes or Knock, you NEED to take this one. Fists of Iron is not only your strongest single DPS move, but it fits in the DPS combo that you want to be spamming every second that you are not doing something else: Earth > Earth > Earth. There's a reason a +3 Ki item is a game changer for how monks play. Ki Strikes and Elemental Moves do not interrupt your attack cycle, they are flat increases to DPS. Use them!

Eagle Claw attack is a non-choice as the other three are MUCH better and you can just use a Deconstructor augment.

I also think people underestimate Bird attacks. Yes, it is delayed, but you can also use it at any range and do not interrupt any monk combo cycles (though do interrupt your attack cycle). Something perched where you can't reach? Knock it down or blind it and give the ranged/casters helpless damage + 50% fort bypass. Want to pull something? Bird it. Tomb of Jade on cooldown and can't stun the mob? Bird it to still get your helpless damage. Coordinated Strike mass applies the fort bypass and blinds, which really helps against ranged enemies. In short bird attacks help give monks more supplemental CC and helpless triggers as well as more ways to apply it at range. If your caster is good enough to no-fail everything, then that need falls flat, but that pretty most of monks abilities. I personally found myself needing to do it often enough to be more than worth it, but I also often pug. Bird attacks even without Assassinate investment still are providing your party 50% fort bypass, so Coordinated for mob groups and Strike for the Eyes to maintain it on a boss is still strong.




Already discussed this, but the main point is Ethereal has changed since this thread was made. You don't need to worry about hide in any case (unless you want a sneaky monk). Ethereal and Arborea are indeed better DPS options, but the utility gain for QP and bird attacks makes Astral worth it in my book.

Your situational question of "Do you tend to just auto-attack anyways?" I would counter with, if so, Monk is not really for you. Monk is a class with a ton of abilities and combos. You may have to pick and choose while leveling due to Ki restraints (sadly making them less fun in heroics), but at end game you should always be doing something. If you are not doing that you are leaving DPS and utility on the table and there are classes that are MUCH better auto-attackers. Their complexity is what makes them so fun to me, though I know that isn't for everyone.

Grateful for the detailed reply and I have no issue with using many attacks since I have a 21 button mouse fully programmable. I am buying Falconry and I don't have any tomes or past lives. So I will max out wisdom at creation then thanks. So may be after reading what you wrote since I am just starting this may not be a good class for me to play after all. Thanks again for the response and your explanation made me realise I might be soloing a lot and this may not be that enjoyable .

[DrawingGuy]

Grateful for the detailed reply and I have no issue with using many attacks since I have a 21 button mouse fully programmable. I am buying Falconry and I don't have any tomes or past lives. So I will max out wisdom at creation then thanks. So may be after reading what you wrote since I am just starting this may not be a good class for me to play after all. Thanks again for the response and your explanation made me realise I might be soloing a lot and this may not be that enjoyable .

I solo on my Monk all the time, and Drifting Lotus + Dire Charge + EIN gives you some AOE to go with all your spot CC. Solo isn't where they shine, because where all your debuffs and spot CC makes you great in a party, when there's no one to take advantage of that, the sacrifices made to do that becomes less worthwhile. That shouldn't stop you, though. The important thing is to play what you find fun, and you shouldn't care about is "meta" (unless that is what you find fun). I find monk fun, but if complexity isn't for you, there are a billion options in DDO. Building is half the fun, and often you can make a build to do whatever you want to do. And if there is some idea you're not sure will work or not, you can just ask the forums. :D

[Asteny]

I solo on my Monk all the time, and Drifting Lotus + Dire Charge + EIN gives you some AOE to go with all your spot CC. Solo isn't where they shine, because where all your debuffs and spot CC makes you great in a party, when there's no one to take advantage of that, the sacrifices made to do that becomes less worthwhile. That shouldn't stop you, though. The important thing is to play what you find fun, and you shouldn't care about is "meta" (unless that is what you find fun). I find monk fun, but if complexity isn't for you, there are a billion options in DDO. Building is half the fun, and often you can make a build to do whatever you want to do. And if there is some idea you're not sure will work or not, you can just ask the forums. :D

I am not into the meta at all. I just want to play and have fun. I'll play it I guess because I cannot seem to not want to and I had kind of set my heart on it. I will try out what you suggested and also some other nice notes I got in a PM. Good community here willing to help out.

[Nickodeamous]

Well, for starters, I feel foolish for not knowing this, since I constantly bring up how WWA sucks for speed. I will gladly invest 8 points in Vistani for a 30% haste boost. Ah, I feel like I have more options now!

Thank you for posting this!
Nico

[beholdapalehorse]

If i were to do this as an Aasimar race vs orc what would or should the starting stats be? 10 str/16 dex/16c on/12 int/18 wis/8 cha ??

[Logicman69]

If i were to do this as an Aasimar race vs orc what would or should the starting stats be? 10 str/16 dex/16c on/12 int/18 wis/8 cha ??

On my Assimar monk, I start at 8 str/13 dex/18 con/12 int/18 wis/8 cha.. That being said, I do have a +8 Supreme tome on this character, so I delay taking TWF till level 2 when that kicks in. If I didn't have those stats, then I would say 8 str/15 dex/16c on/12 int/18 wis/8 cha for a 32 point build. If you have extra points then I would put them into cha for the UMD (no fail raise scrolls).

[Quordrell]

There have been a numerous amount of statements regarding the disadvantages of melee in high-skull reaper; after exponential mob and difficulty scaling, the base hits taken from generic mobs are colossal enough to absolutely annihilate a traditionalist character. Having to stand toe-to-toe with these mobs, while penetrating a plethora of damage-mitigating factors (AC, DR, etc) to physically inflict damage, is overwhelming. The sheer amount of reaper-related (and champion) abilities are numerous enough to vaporize anyone at a second's notice; the slightest deviation of attention, the slightest inconsistency in your optimization, the unluckiest (and most common) pulls of enemies all frequently result in your becoming of a soul stone. With the meta supposedly favoring those in the back-lines, and the stereotype for melee nearly desolate because of this; how could a melee possibly not only survive - but effectively perform - versus adversaries of this caliber? The solution is as effective as it is momentous: overpower your opponents with a build that is as devastatingly destructive as it is invulnerable.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fQfGzMspdfFV8pA0n_MWyp9gu1uJbyjcLQsOkq7-l1U/edit#gid=0

General Overview:

• HP (in Reaper): 2,500+
• Sustainable Dire Charge DC: 115
• Sustainable Jade/Shintao DC: 112
• Sustainable Stunning Fist DC: 108
• Physical Resistance Rating (PRR): 241; 70.67% damage mitigation
• Magical Resistance Rating (MRR): 50; 33.33% damage mitigation (monk cap)
• Dodge: 49%
• Incorporeal Miss Chance: 25%
• Armor Class: 226 (81% defense chance at level)
• +30% Passive Movement Speed and Abundant Steps
• Fortitude Save: 110
• Reflex Save: 110
• Will Save: 87
• Standing Doublestrike: 66.91%
• Fully-buffed Doublestrike: 103.91%
• Melee Power: 326
• Healing Amplification: 191

In this spreadsheet, every single item, everything taken during level progression, the DCs of every ability, and every aspect of performance is listed and elaborated upon in meticulous detail; this class, with the allocation of abilities and enhancements showcased in the file above, incorporates a maelstrom of abilities to debilitate and dismember anything unfortunate enough to stand in your hitbox, with an arsenal of primary and emergency CC (crowd-control) utilities to ensure that whatever you are attacking is too overcome to fight back. This build specializes in raw damage, with a truly scary amount of helpless amplification - while honing its ability to bring mobs to a helpless state. Numerous videos of the monk's performance in reaper are shown, and any questions/concerns are welcome!


I have a question on your Molten Silver Gauntlets and the Fleetfoot necklace where did you do it and what do I need to get them to the stats that are in that google Doc? I have them both bound and attuned but do not know where to go from there. Any direction would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[Arkat]

I have a question on your Molten Silver Gauntlets and the Fleetfoot necklace where did you do it and what do I need to get them to the stats that are in that google Doc? I have them both bound and attuned but do not know where to go from there. Any direction would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Sym hasn't posted since 2019.

You might be waiting for a LONG time for an answer.

Miracles are possible, though.