New Low Level Weaponry - Icy Bursted

[dogsoldier]

Here are some low level weapons that I added Icy Burst to, for TR or an alt usage. Mostly going for keen stuff since Improved Crit would not be available early on.

https://i.imgur.com/z8z27iZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/HV2VQJH.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BorGBaZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/NREH66E.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fwLxkm9.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/z818YI4.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ihlBE3y.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3jttEoZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Ssv3Jmy.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/D8S7SFx.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/dWlbx2Z.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/J2AqV9N.jpg

[kmoustakas]

That repeater looks awesome

[Saekee]

I have a repeater like yours but put the eldritch on it—maybe I would do better with Icy. I guess none of these changed ML?

Outside the repeater in reaper, I am not sure I would do a melee weapon with keen and vorpal.

[Ulfo]

I guess none of these changed ML?
No, ML not changed.

Outside the repeater in reaper, I am not sure I would do a melee weapon with keen and vorpal.
I have adamantine redslotted vorpal/feeding khopesh... think it need be iced as soon as I take another 5/20. 8)

[EllisDee37]

I have adamantine redslotted vorpal/feeding khopesh... think it need be iced as soon as I take another 5/20. 8)I have tons of 5s. PM me an in-game name to send it to and I'll mail one to ya.

[Matuse]

I have a repeater like yours but put the eldritch on it—maybe I would do better with Icy.

Nothing stopping you from putting both a stone of change and festival recipe on the same item.

[Saekee]

Nothing stopping you from putting both a stone of change and festival recipe on the same item.
I thought they were exclusive! thanks, good to know!

Edit: DONE! Whoot!

[dogsoldier]

None of these changed ML. I guess that was a thing of the past.

I was thinking Vorpal would be nice on low level, considering the increased weapon die; there may be something better. Technically I would rather have keen + critical slashing or something, on a good crit threat weapon (15-20 with two on-crit effects). I could not find any weapons like that though.

[EllisDee37]

I was thinking Vorpal would be nice on low level, considering the increased weapon dieI think vorpal is attractive at low levels for the insta-kill fishing. At low levels, you don't have to worry about "mobs over 1000 hp take 100 damage instead"; every 20 they go poof. And if you're playing mid/high reaper skulls, your actual damage has to be ridiculously low during low levels.

So figure you attack a 200 HP monster doing 2-3 damage per swing, but every time you roll a 20 they go bye bye. Combine that with a high RoF weapon like a repeater and you're the lord-god-king of reaper.

[C-Dog]

Technically I would rather have keen + critical slashing or something, on a good crit threat weapon (15-20 with two on-crit effects). I could not find any weapons like that though.
And you won't - they're both suffixes, you get one or the other, never both.

But that's why Icy Burst is a win on Keen - double the crit range, and +d10 on those crits.


(EDIT - the math below is an assumption of how the game engine deals w/ fractional damage. See EllisDee's post not far below this one for a different but perfectly reasonable alternative assumption. But the numbers would be close, either way, just not ~quite~ as large (by a small fraction) if his math is (closer to) how the game works.)

Outside the repeater in reaper, I am not sure I would do a melee weapon with keen and vorpal.
Vorpal also adds .5[W] to damage, so anything with a high [W] is always a win.

Great Sword especially, as .5 of 2d6 is the same as a +1d6, as much as any other lowbie damage type, an average of +3.5 extra damage. But a d12 Graxe (+3.25), or d10 Bastard Sword, Dwaxe or Maul (+2.75), are all nice boosts as well (as is Great Cross Bow, also a +2.75 addition). Admittedly, as you get down into d8 weapons (+2.25) and below, it becomes progressively less attractive, def a ymmv thing.

(The Repeater/Vorpal interaction was mentioned above, and is a diff kind of win.)

At low level heroics, this is a great equalizer, and icy burst on top of that adds +d6 on every hit (to make up for the lack of an elemental damage). When added to one of the weapons with a wide crit range - money. Falchion, Kukri, Rapier, Scimitar, and GXB, all bursting for an additional d10 on 30% of their hits? Yes, please.

(For reference, the +.5[W] for those others is Falchion (+2.5), Rapier and Scimi (+2.25), and Kukri (+1.25)).



(* Warning: Math!... (simple math, but still...)

Formula is based off average damage, so {(low+high)/2}, then .5 of that for the vorpal addition of .5[W].

So if the average damage of a shuriken (d2) is high+low/2 = (1+2)/2 = 1.5 average, then a mighty Vorpal version would add .5 of that, or +.75 average. Or (depending on how the in-game math works), vorpal would add +1 to 3/4 of the hits, and 0 to 1/4 of them.)

/math

[Saekee]

great points cdog

I added icy burst on my keen vorpal light repeater along with the eldritch force so at ML 4 it is awesome!

[EllisDee37]

(* Warning: Math!... (simple math, but still...)

Formula is based off average damage, so {(low+high)/2}, then .5 of that for the vorpal addition of .5[W].

So if the average damage of a shuriken (d2) is high+low/2 = (1+2)/2 = 1.5 average, then a mighty Vorpal version would add .5 of that, or +.75 average. Or (depending on how the in-game math works), vorpal would add +1 to 3/4 of the hits, and 0 to 1/4 of them.)

/mathIs that confirmed how it works? Because my assumption is that fractional damage is rounded down.

For example, consider a 1d6 weapon with +0.5[W] from vorpal and 0 melee power:

1 becomes 1
2 becomes 3
3 becomes 4
4 becomes 6
5 becomes 7
6 becomes 9

Then if you add up the six new numbers 1 + 3 + 4 + 6 + 7 + 9 = 30 / 6 = 5 damage per hit, which is +1.5, not the +1.75 you get from just multiplying 3.5 by 0.5.

Of course melee power complicates this, as I assume melee power multiplies at the same time, which will reduce the rounding down effect.

[Sam1313]

https://imgur.com/aRyrQmc
https://imgur.com/mUBdwP7
https://imgur.com/k5LMCAk
https://imgur.com/kgixtP0
I wish they still made lacerating. I really liked them and have had these bows for a really really really long time now.

[C-Dog]

Is that confirmed how it works? Because my assumption is that fractional damage is rounded down...
Not confirmed at all, just a diff assumption on my part (and maybe over-optimistic).

I acknowledge this in my example, but perhaps should have qualified the entire post re that same assumption at the start:


(...Or (depending on how the in-game math works), vorpal would add +1 to 3/4 of the hits, and 0 to 1/4 of them.)

Your assumption would streamline and reduce the load on the engine, and make coding in general that much easier. Probably a better bet than mine, now that I think about it.

[kmoustakas]

https://imgur.com/aRyrQmc
https://imgur.com/mUBdwP7
https://imgur.com/k5LMCAk
https://imgur.com/kgixtP0
I wish they still made lacerating. I really liked them and have had these bows for a really really really long time now.

Someone in sarlona used to have a riptide of lacerating repeater with icy kit... Talk about pimped out

[C-Dog]

I just wanted to add that, altho' a weapon with Keen (or Impact, for bludgeon) is the best numerical value for an icy burst effect (since the "burst" works off of criticals), that doesn't mean those are the only weapons you should put the effect on. If you have a favorite droploot weapon, by all means, add Icy Burst to make it even better! A wider crit range is a plus, but not an absolute requirement.

(But, I have to add, especially (but not limited to) weapons that already have an 18-20 crit range, followed by 19-20. If you don't have anything better to add it to, and aren't going to sell it, add it to what you got.)

Have fun!

[LightBear]

Try a "keen" great crossbow and watch things drop with a single shot on low levels.

[dogsoldier]

Try a "keen" great crossbow and watch things drop with a single shot on low levels.

Something like this:
https://i.imgur.com/F2SuBkw.jpg

[dogsoldier]

Also making some Mid-Level Heroic weapons, but it is harder to find anything worth upgrading.

https://i.imgur.com/qGqCWZd.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/56XDdSJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/uqwZ41L.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/pUhDZJa.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ieDX330.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/guzaHPJ.jpg

[Fedora1]

Also making some Mid-Level Heroic weapons, but it is harder to find anything worth upgrading.

If you still have, or can find, some of the older random loot (L11-19 should say "Paragon") in "most" cases will have their ML reduced by 3 when you icy burst them. Some won't, as we had about a year where they "fixed" it on the random loot so they didn't have their ML reduced, but I had two older pieces of random loot that had the ML drop by 3 the other day. Both were older "everbright" weapons I never got around to applying icy burst on. They had been sitting on a mule and I totally forgot about them.

[dogsoldier]

... older random loot (L11-19 should say "Paragon")

The Paragon property still exists, note the ML12 repeater, it is Vorpal which adds 0.5w, and Paragon for another 0.5w(though there is no indication of that anymore), for a total of +1 extra dice. Generally speaking, new loot of around level 10+ can have paragon, though the rules for it are not exactly consistent.

[EllisDee37]

The Paragon property still exists, note the ML12 repeater, it is Vorpal which adds 0.5w, and Paragon for another 0.5w(though there is no indication of that anymore), for a total of +1 extra dice. Generally speaking, new loot of around level 10+ can have paragon, though the rules for it are not exactly consistent.Right, but he's saying the older lootgen that still shows "Paragon" in the detail description.

[dogsoldier]

Right, but he's saying the older lootgen that still shows "Paragon" in the detail description.

I am not sure why, unless it is paragon/lacerating. New loot paragon, would be better most of the time. I assumed he thought Paragon had gone away, which is what I was clarifying in response.

[Fedora1]

I am not sure why, unless it is paragon/lacerating. New loot paragon, would be better most of the time. I assumed he thought Paragon had gone away, which is what I was clarifying in response.

You seem to be totally missing the point. It has nothing to do with lacerating.

EllisDee is correct. New loot still has the 1.5d, but the older loot is identifiable by the word "Paragon" in the description. It is this older loot that can still have it's minimum level reduced with the festival frost and icy burst, the newer loot cannot.

[dogsoldier]

My understanding was that the ML changing was no longer the case, happened in recent years. It would make sense if they fixed it for new loot, but it still may apply in older loot. If that is the case, Caveat Emptor, ML changed both directions in the past.

[dogsoldier]

I happen to have a Paragon weapon in my inventory, it was one I considered "not good enough to add Icy Burst", because it was just paragon/vorpal, would have liked a damage kicker. And since it is BtA, it wont take damage.

Here it is initially, not bad, but sort of meh at ML10 without additional damage.
https://i.imgur.com/uLEcNzh.jpg

And with Icy Burst, it ML6, ha.
https://i.imgur.com/cuXvi5u.jpg

[EllisDee37]

And with Icy Burst, it ML6, ha.That is one sexy repeater.

[dogsoldier]

And here is the other side of the equasion, found this on the Auction House, and thought to test it out. ML stayed the same, but the weapon was actually downgraded. I just went to frost, not willing to waste a burst recipe on this one.

Before (with Paragon):
https://i.imgur.com/clKOwkx.jpg

After (Lost Paragon Property):
https://i.imgur.com/nuvr2Ky.png

And it may be possible that the ML goes up in some scenarios.

[dogsoldier]

Another test, with something from the great ghostbaning found on the AH, reduced the ML by 2 (from 10 to 8), and kept the Paragon property this time.
Results seem pretty random when Legacy Paragon is involved.

https://i.imgur.com/m8kJODy.png
https://i.imgur.com/EeKHZqV.jpg

[EllisDee37]

Pretty sure the issue is that you overwrote Frost with Festival Frost; you can't have both. For this reason, avoid adding risia effects to old-style weapons with Cold Touch, Frost or Icy Burst.

Similarly, your second example would likely have run into the same issue had you applied Festival Solar from Night Revels.

[dogsoldier]

I think it is partially based upon the potential of the weapon. Overwriting frost is a bad idea, that I know, but I was waning to see what happens with Legacy Paragon. Overwriting regular frost reduced the potential of the weapon from 6 to 5. The other two kept the same potential. Paragon is "supposed" to apply only to potential 6+, so that is why it went away (I think). Something else is going on where the ML changes. So there is a Paragon rule, and another Total Effects rule that can combine for interesting results.

[Fedora1]

Something else is going on where the ML changes. So there is a Paragon rule, and another Total Effects rule that can combine for interesting results.

This is why I explained in my first post that there was a year (or maybe two) where the same random generated loot weapons were "fixed" or worse yet, "broken". So the more recent "old" loot doesn't have the ML lowered, or if it did, it lost it's extra damage dice (as you noted). You said it best with "caveat emptor". Anyway, it's always nice to take an old and piece of loot and add some dps while lowering the ML. Nice tweak stuff. :)


If you still have, or can find, some of the older random loot (L11-19 should say "Paragon") in "most" cases will have their ML reduced by 3 when you icy burst them. Some won't, as we had about a year where they "fixed" it on the random loot so they didn't have their ML reduced,

[Lanadazia]

i have a pretty awesome greataxe with festival icy burst for low levels. it has some of the best old lootgen properties. i'll post a picture after my next log in

EDIT: here we go:
https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/34799034/greataxe.png (https://www.pic-upload.de)

[Lanadazia]

also i just found this little gem again:

https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/34799052/xbow.png (https://www.pic-upload.de)

obviously it has no ML ?! wow. at first glance i would've almost destroyed it, since i couldn't remember why i would store a great crossbow. but with ML 1 this is neat.

any clue if festival icy burst will remove the chilling enhancement or raise the ML ?

the recipe card says it only works, if there is no cold effect.

https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/34799070/recipecard.png (https://www.pic-upload.de)

but i got chilling, not chilling touch or frost

[dogsoldier]

That is a nice looking ML1 Great Xbow.

I did upgrade a chilled weapon, and it worked fine.
https://i.imgur.com/GhJ69B7.jpg

I also upgraded this Great Xbow, ML1:
https://i.imgur.com/5rfYLg4.jpg

[Lanadazia]

thanks for the reply. i just upgraded a chilling weapon too to test this. found one in the pawn shop in eveningstar

Edit:

ok.. this is really messed up:

https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/34799116/xbow.png (https://www.pic-upload.de)


not only went my insane ML1 crossbow from ML1 to ML14 by putting it into the bank, its also not eligable for the risia treatment for some reason (?)

[Elfishski]

thanks for the reply. i just upgraded a chilling weapon too to test this. found one in the pawn shop in eveningstar

Edit:

ok.. this is really messed up:

https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/34799116/xbow.png (https://www.pic-upload.de)


not only went my insane ML1 crossbow from ML1 to ML14 by putting it into the bank, its also not eligable for the risia treatment for some reason (?)

The wondrous items from Wheloon/Storm Horns that were very low ML were corrected by a patch (many would say over-corrected) back to a higher level, but it didn't update things that were sitting in a shared bank/guild chest etc at the time, so the fact that it got changed to ML14 after you started moving it around is, sadly, intentional - no point complaining.

They also count as "Named" items rather than "Random" items wherever that matters, so no adding icy burst or deconstructing for Cannith crafting say (but I think you can feed it to a sentient weapon if you're sick of the sight of it now).

[Lanadazia]

oh i see. yeah i remember i picked it up as quest reward somewhere and was amazed by the ML requirement. i even found another weapon just like this one next to it. it got it ML corrected on moving it out of the bank too.
When i picked them up i wasn't sure if this ML was WAI and thought of a bug, then completely forgot about these weapons until today.
also thanks for the clarification, that these are treated as named weapons, i was just right now seriously questioning my sanity, as i put in the 2nd weapon and it too didn't show up a recipe for it. lol :D

i'll try out some more stuff i have laying around here, will post again if i find something special
Edit:
found some paragon weapons (handwraps/collars) too, they went down 4 ML in the process to get icy burst on them.

[charliecharlie]

While this is not exactly a low level weapon, it is a favorite of mine, back in the days of Arties and Repeaters:



https://i.imgur.com/qNWttom.jpg

[Borkor]

And here is the other side of the equasion, found this on the Auction House, and thought to test it out. ML stayed the same, but the weapon was actually downgraded. I just went to frost, not willing to waste a burst recipe on this one.

Before (with Paragon):
https://i.imgur.com/clKOwkx.jpg

After (Lost Paragon Property):
https://i.imgur.com/nuvr2Ky.png

And it may be possible that the ML goes up in some scenarios.

You applied festival frost to a weapon with frost already on it - when you do that it removes the frost - which dropped it from a +6 to a +5 rated weapon (look in the upper right corner). That took the paragon off. I also think the min level reduction won't happen until the bust is applied - just festival frost won't do it.

In any event your mistake here was applying festival frost to a weapon that already had standard frost on it.

Edit: EliisDee17 beat me to the explanation. I agree with his analysis.

[Lanadazia]

You applied festival frost to a weapon with frost already on it - when you do that it removes the frost - which dropped it from a +6 to a +5 rated weapon (look in the upper right corner). That took the paragon off. I also think the min level reduction won't happen until the bust is applied - just festival frost won't do it.

In any event your mistake here was applying festival frost to a weapon that already had standard frost on it.

i get, that paragon is removed in the process, hence that paragon ML reduction on festivult'ing it won't happen (considering its one of these paragon weapons, that do reduce their ML during the process)
so far i picked up 8 old lootgen paragon weapons from my mules and they all had the ML reduced by 2, when frost was applied and by another 2 when icy burst was applied. no change in ML happened, when cold touch was applied.

whether Borkor had a newer lootgen paragon weapon, or the ML reduction won't happen if you first un-paragon it due to adding festival frost, what is taking away effective enhancement level from the weapon

[Lanadazia]

While this is not exactly a low level weapon, it is a favorite of mine, back in the days of Arties and Repeaters:



https://i.imgur.com/qNWttom.jpg

4x bursts is insane. wow!

[Lanadazia]

here 2 other small projects, no ML changes, but still pretty nice

https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/34811397/weapon2.png (https://www.pic-upload.de) https://www2.pic-upload.de/img/34811396/voidloredagger.png (https://www.pic-upload.de)