Rouge / Ranger / Fighter Vistani Tempest (Advice needed !!!!)

[Elor_OnceDark]

I have been theorycrafting with a vistani build (mainly because i wanna try it), but as I am normally playing either monkchers or casters, I'm quite sceptical wether this might work.

The basic idea of this build is to use dance of death as main damage source while stacking it with rapid slash and everything else, i can find to get the doublestike up, (I was considering monk levels, but then i thought , lets play something else for once ...) while trying to get to a decent PRR / dodge rating in light armor.
For further defense I'm planning on utilising Shadow Dragonmark (Displacement) and Meld into Darkness

Since I have no experience with the damage profile of daggers (the base damage looks a bit low, so I'm wondering wether this will deal any damage in EE)

I'm not even sure about the LD, I was considering Shadowdancer instead.

At the current stage my planning for my next life is the following :

10/6/4 Rogue/Ranger/Fighter
Lawful Neutral Elf


Level Order

1. Rogue 6. Ranger 11. Fighter 16. Rogue
2. Ranger 7. Ranger 12. Fighter 17. Fighter
3. Ranger 8. Rogue 13. Rogue 18. Fighter
4. Ranger 9. Rogue 14. Rogue 19. Rogue
5. Ranger 10. Rogue 15. Rogue 20. Rogue


Stats
36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 8 +7 4: DEX
Dexterity 19 +7 8: DEX
Constitution 16 +7 12: DEX
Intelligence 14 +7 16: DEX
Wisdom 9 +7 20: DEX
Charisma 8 +7 24: DEX
28: DEX

Skills
Rg Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rg Rg Rg Fi Fi Rg Rg Rg Rg Fi Fi Rg Rg
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Disable 4 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 23
Open Lo 4 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 23
Search 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 1 1 2 2 23
Spot 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 1 1 3 1 23
Bluff 4 3 3 3 1 1 2 2 2 2 23
UMD 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Jump 2 1 2 3 3 4 4 19
Move Si 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 17
Balance 4 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 1 2 11
Heal 2 2 2 2 1 1 10
Swim 4 4
Tumble 2 2
------------------------------------------------------------
40 8 8 8 8 8 9 11 11 11 5 5 11 11 12 12 6 6 12 12


Feats

1 : Dodge
3 : Completionist
6 : Toughness
9 : Least Dragonmark: Shadow
11 Fighter: Mobility
12 : Spring Attack
12 Fighter: Precision
15 : Extend Spell
18 : Improved Critical: Piercing
18 Fighter: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Epic Toughness
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic : Epic Reflexes
28 Destiny: Holy Strike
29 Destiny: Deific Warding
30 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea

20 Rogue : Improved Evasion

2 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Human
6 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Construct


Spells

Ranger
1. Ram's Might, Jump

Enhancements (80+2 AP)

Tempest (33 AP)
• Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death
1. Item Defense III, Improved Defense III, Whirling Blades
2. Improved Parry III, Whirling Blades
3. Storm Dancer, Dexterity
4. Storm Tempest, Elaborate Parry III, The Growing Storm III, Dexterity
5. Dance of Death III

Vistani Knife Fighter (26 AP)
• Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades
1. Vistani Knife Training, Undead Hunter, Mist Stalker, Rapid Attack
2. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Weapon Versatility
3. Fan of Knives, Mist Stalker, Deadly Blades
4. Celerity, Mist Stalker, Double Daggers

Elf (12 AP)
• Elven Accuracy, Elven Dexterity, Elven Accuracy II, Elven Dexterity II
1. Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus II
2. Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
3. Greater Dragonmark of Shadow

Deepwood Stalker (11 AP)
• Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Exposing Strike
1. Favored Defense III, Stealthy III
2. Survivalist


Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought
1. Extra Action Boost II, Constitution
2. Damage Boost III, Constitution
3. Haste Boost III, Constitution
4. Volcano's Edge, Constitution
5. Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
6. Master's Blitz

Twists of Fate (27 fate points)
1. Meld into Darkness (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
2. Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
3. Dragonhide (Tier 1 Draconic)
4. Impregnable Mind (Tier 1 Magister)
5. Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)

Some help / advice regarding the build or the "to be expected" pitfalls / problems would be highly appreciated.

[unbongwah]

You're running into the same issue I have with Tempest / Vistani hybrids, namely not enough APs to grab everything. :( You've left out the Vistani capstone which is a pretty nice DPS boost; as well as two of the most important Tempest bonuses (Dual Perfection + Thousand Cuts).

I think the least bad combo for let's say a DEX-based rgr 6 Vistani build is 41 VKF / 38 Tempest / 1 human (Dmg Boost). But since this leaves zero APs to spare, it means your second (or third) classes need to be chosen based on their inherent class abilities, not their trees. And I haven't figured out what to do there...

[Selvera]

I'm having trouble seeing the advantages of such a build over just going 20 ranger and picking up the tempest capstone. You don't even spend AP in the fighter/rogue trees for the easy/good damage enhancements they can provide (I assume due to tight AP split). 3 feats + improved evasion just doesn't seem to be worth it IMO. Or even an 18/1/1 split if you want to be able to do traps (18 ranger).

Your build seems to have a lot of QoL improvements instead of min/max improvements in it. (For example item defense isn't needed if you repair often enough, while you could have spent that AP on haste boost which has amazing dps potential).

Dance of death is amazing yes; but so is haste boost, "a thousand cuts" and "dual perfection". If at all possible, I'd pick those up as well.

[adrian69]

I have been theorycrafting with a vistani build (mainly because i wanna try it), but as I am normally playing either monkchers or casters, I'm quite sceptical wether this might work.

The basic idea of this build is to use dance of death as main damage source while stacking it with rapid slash and everything else, i can find to get the doublestike up, (I was considering monk levels, but then i thought , lets play something else for once ...) while trying to get to a decent PRR / dodge rating in light armor.
For further defense I'm planning on utilising Shadow Dragonmark (Displacement) and Meld into Darkness

Since I have no experience with the damage profile of daggers (the base damage looks a bit low, so I'm wondering wether this will deal any damage in EE)

I'm not even sure about the LD, I was considering Shadowdancer instead.

At the current stage my planning for my next life is the following :

.

Only great VF builds I've that are great are some form of Wolf+monk, Monk, Pure rogue, or Horc+Kensei. Everything else just needs to be tried to see if it's as good as well.