Light damage help

[goldgolem]

I need help to pick a good light damage build

So far it looks like Aasimer cleric in Sun

Does you have athought on one of these four options?
pure 20 cleric - hard to go wrong
clr18/fvs2 - gets nice extra sp and 4% crit chance - the sp never running out is very handy
clr17/pali3 - a lot of extra defense
clr17/ftr3 - is a possibility but i dont think i need the extra feats. Not sure if i could get defense out of it than pali lvls
or a monk splash

THis would be my preferred option, but im afraid i may lose too much damage - clr15/pali3/fvs2

HOW much difference in defense is there on a pure cleric vs a clr/pali?

seems like the lights spells work of spell level which i understand caps out at 17 on a cleric, so i dont think i lose much by going to just 17

feats i need max, emp, heighten, quicken, at least 1 evoc. Nice to have would be 2nd evoc, shield prof if i went pali, maybe a spell pen for implosion

[donweel]

I went Sun Elf, cleric 17, 3 Favoured Soul. That give a few extra light criticals and scourge, which is stacking spellpower bonus. You could go two levels more on fvs for extra light crits. At 18 I was hitting over 1k with crits.


I need help to pick a good light damage build

So far it looks like Aasimer cleric in Sun

Does you have athought on one of these four options?
pure 20 cleric - hard to go wrong
clr18/fvs2 - gets nice extra sp and 4% crit chance - the sp never running out is very handy
clr17/pali3 - a lot of extra defense
clr17/ftr3 - is a possibility but i dont think i need the extra feats. Not sure if i could get defense out of it than pali lvls
or a monk splash

THis would be my preferred option, but im afraid i may lose too much damage - clr15/pali3/fvs2

HOW much difference in defense is there on a pure cleric vs a clr/pali?

seems like the lights spells work of spell level which i understand caps out at 17 on a cleric, so i dont think i lose much by going to just 17

feats i need max, emp, heighten, quicken, at least 1 evoc. Nice to have would be 2nd evoc, shield prof if i went pali, maybe a spell pen for implosion

[goldgolem]

Im level 6 on the cleric now and its clear ill have to go at least 2 levels of fvs for the sp regen. When the cleric runs out of sp its just a lump

Unfortunately the Divine Disciple core abilities of sunbeam, sunbolt and sunburst will all be useless, as they get added as spells not SLAs - so you cant afford to put max empower etc on them

IM worried about what spells i will actually have to cast at the end of it!

[Arkat]

My Light-based Cleric is an Aasimar Sun domain Cleric 20.

He's got the following SLAs:

Nimbus of Light - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 2
Avenging Light - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 3
Searing Light - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 4
Sun Beam - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 8
Sun Bolt - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 12
Sun Burst - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 20
Holy Smite - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 7
Flame Strike - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 20

Perhaps the only Light-based spell he casts that's not an SLA is Divine Punishment and that costs 76 Spell Points with all metamagics on.

His Light spellpower is sitting at 708 without counting metamagics and effectively 1008 counting metamagics (empower, maximize, and intensify).

I have about 3400 Spell Points which is plenty enough to power all my SLAs.

[goldgolem]

My Light-based Cleric is an Aasimar Sun domain Cleric 20.

He's got the following SLAs:

Nimbus of Light - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 2
Avenging Light - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 3
Searing Light - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 4
Sun Beam - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 8
Sun Bolt - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 12
Sun Burst - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 20
Holy Smite - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 7
Flame Strike - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 20

Perhaps the only Light-based spell he casts that's not an SLA is Divine Punishment and that costs 76 Spell Points with all metamagics on.

His Light spellpower is sitting at 708 without counting metamagics and effectively 1008 counting metamagics (empower, maximize, and intensify).

I have about 3400 Spell Points which is plenty enough to power all my SLAs.

Thanks, Ill wait a bit longer I guess. Did you have any thoughts as to wether multiclassing would lower you light spower?

[Ralmeth]

Im level 6 on the cleric now and its clear ill have to go at least 2 levels of fvs for the sp regen. When the cleric runs out of sp its just a lump

Unfortunately the Divine Disciple core abilities of sunbeam, sunbolt and sunburst will all be useless, as they get added as spells not SLAs - so you cant afford to put max empower etc on them

IM worried about what spells i will actually have to cast at the end of it!

If it's not a SLA, then don't turn Metas on, unless you know you're at the end, or there is a shrine around the corner and you can afford the extra SP cost. Instead rotate through your SLAs and non-Metad offensive spells. I've found that helps stretch your SP quite a bit further.

[Arkat]

Thanks, Ill wait a bit longer I guess. Did you have any thoughts as to wether multiclassing would lower you light spower?

Maybe by a point or two.

I stayed pure for the Divine Disciple capstone. It's not impressive at all. I just wanted the extra Wisdom and saving throws really.

Multiclassing by getting 2 levels of FvS is definitely a solid option.

[Wipey]

He's got the following SLAs:

Nimbus of Light - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 2
Avenging Light - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 3
Searing Light - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 4
Sun Beam - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 8
Sun Bolt - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 12
Sun Burst - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 20
Holy Smite - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 7
Flame Strike - Spell Point cost with all metamagics on: 20



These do negligible damage, even with godly spellpower.

It was bad before reaper, all the SLAs suck except Sun Elf and EA Sunbolt. Even then, if you pumped your spellpower and feats and twists, your spells would too often get saved.

Now even the paltry damage gets reduced by reaper, with additional saves with skulls.
Considering the huge boost to spell DCs available, it's just dead end to even try "light caster".
Proper high DC Implo, Destructions, Stunning Symbol or Sunburst rock Ravenloft.

Played fvs for few years, now back on cleric, the SLAs look even more pathetic than ever. I get carried by warlock friend, tossing Cures, Soundburst, Command and turning. And breaking boxes.

Turning works very well in heroics up to r3 still. That's the only offence till instakills.
I would strongly advise against "light caster".

[Arkat]

These do negligible damage, even with godly spellpower.

Not quite true but even so, it beats just being a healbot.

The occasional 10,000+ point critical Sun Bolt is satisfying.

[goldgolem]

Thanks for postign the numbers Arkat, it gives me something to test a build against. I think i will try adding 2 fvs and 3 pali levels and see how high I can push my light spell power at 30. If i can get near that 1000 points with the extra sp regen and defenses I would be very happy

However, I am at lvl 10 and couldnt be more despondent about light damage. I just want to throw my laptop at the wall, getting 3 kills out of 100. I cant believe whoever built the didi tree ever played the game as one.

I know this build will be a different kettle of fish at lvl 30, but its sad for anyone else who would even think to try it

[Wipey]

The occasional 10,000+ point critical Sun Bolt is satisfying.
Yep that's Sunbolt crit on helpless.
Now cut the non crit in half even in 2 skulls, cut it again due to mobs almost always saving on such build.
Other SLAs do fraction of Sunbolts ( as I mentioned earlier, Sun Elf and EA Sunbolts only worthwile spells ).
In essence, you are spamming million keys to do low damage. Even one middle skull pack of epic trash will occupy you for tens of seconds. Such build was so-so in elites or epic elites with the combo of some DC spells but it's just really weak in any reaper and forget difficult content.
But everyone can always try on their own heh.

[Arkat]

Yep that's Sunbolt crit on helpless.
Now cut the non crit in half even in 2 skulls, cut it again due to mobs almost always saving on such build.
Other SLAs do fraction of Sunbolts ( as I mentioned earlier, Sun Elf and EA Sunbolts only worthwile spells ).
In essence, you are spamming million keys to do low damage. Even one middle skull pack of epic trash will occupy you for tens of seconds. Such build was so-so in elites or epic elites with the combo of some DC spells but it's just really weak in any reaper and forget difficult content.
But everyone can always try on their own heh.

The OP didn't say anything about wanting a build for Reaper difficulty.

[goldgolem]

The OP didn't say anything about wanting a build for Reaper difficulty.

Ah sorry, I thought that was just a given ^^ thats why I am looking at FVS for endless sp and pali for some defense and trying to judge the best trade offs

I played him for years on EE and then reaper as a wis based FVS doing light damage and it was fine at lvl 30. But with the change to be able to use CHA I decided I could make him better by tring into a pure cha fvs or trying a wis cleric build. This is my attempt to find a usable wis cleric build that can sit at cap

Lvl 30 provides such a big step up in damage its hard for me to judge at any lower level what the final build will be like

[Arkat]

Ah sorry, I thought that was just a given ^^ thats why I am looking at FVS for endless sp and pali for some defense and trying to judge the best trade offs

I played him for years on EE and then reaper as a wis based FVS doing light damage and it was fine at lvl 30. But with the change to be able to use CHA I decided I could make him better by tring into a pure cha fvs or trying a wis cleric build. This is my attempt to find a usable wis cleric build that can sit at cap

Lvl 30 provides such a big step up in damage its hard for me to judge at any lower level what the final build will be like

Wipey is right about a Light-based Cleric in Reaper. If you're planning to do a ton of Reaper content, I wouldn't bother.

[goldgolem]

At lvl 13, my sunbolt SLA crit does 1200 on elite and 250 on R2. Its an instakill on elite vs about 6 crits to kill a mob on r2 - quite ugly.

Getting to 13 playing a light cleric has been super frustrating and i caved in and used blade barrier. Lvls 12 and 13 I added the FVS levels and they help quite a bit with extending the spell pool

Basically im ok with it being suboptimal compared to the warlocks im running with, im just trying to build the best light nuker evoker I can for level 30

[goldgolem]

I realise i have made a huge mistake in multi classing with only 15 cleric levels. I am going to miss implosion at 18 (lvl 9 spell)

in retrospect 18/2 cleric monk would have been a better decision (and would have made levelling less hellish)

[goldgolem]

I ate a +5 heart at lvl 17 and trd into clr/monk so i can take implosion.

My light damage is a little bit weaker as im using a staff to stay centered. This will also mean ill have to give up the new axe in the baba raid that I wanted to use for light damage, which is a pain

I did a little bit of damage testing in Lords of Dust, casting the sunbeam sla at lvl 16.

Elite
2000 rare crit
950 crit
450 norm
225 save

r1
660 crit
330 norm
160 save


r2
500 crit
250 norm
125 save

r3
360 crit
180 norm
90 save

R1 35% less damage
R2 45% less damage
R3 60% less damage

[goldgolem]

Im lvl 29 now and still frustrated. I cant make light damage really work, you have to be second best at everything and nothing clicks


CLR
The cleric feels a lot weaker than the FVS in damage numbers and I dont feel the extra slas make up for it

the CL18/MNK2 is fun, but doesnt do much damage and you will be uncentered if you want to use the new axe, which is a big step up in damage

Pure Cleric and heavy armour - I just cant see getting enough defense to make it work. PRR/MRR/AC/Dodge just dont stack up for me in any way I can tell will make a difference. You need to splash but you need 17 CLR levels for implosion and the other 3 levels need to add some WIS themselves or add FVS sp regen - but then still no defense


FVS
I just cant get any combo of race, deity, SLAs or defence to click at all

You need forgotten realms to get the SLA, but then you lose on racial CHA and no 20 CHA race. Weirdly PDK would probably be best FR race.

Pure 20 FVS would be good, go drow and you could use the new raid axe - but you would have no defenses at all and just get smushed on reaper AND you have few SLAs


Any out of the box thoughts are welcome!

[HungarianRhapsody]

I saw "Light damage help" and was ready to jump in with my suggestions on how to help our poor Pale Master brothers and sisters survive those naughty Drow Priestesses who want to DP us.

I'm sad that it turned out to be a post advocating the other side...

[unbongwah]

You need to splash but you need 17 CLR levels for implosion and the other 3 levels need to add some WIS themselves or add FVS sp regen - but then still no defense
If you ask nicely, maybe slarden will post his cleric 17 / FvS 3 Sun build he mentioned here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/493275-help-request-an-electric-cleric-build?p=6062197&highlight=#post6062197). :)

You need forgotten realms to get the SLA, but then you lose on racial CHA and no 20 CHA race. Weirdly PDK would probably be best FR race.
My inclination would be PDK FvS 20 Amaunator running in Exalted Angel for dual Sunbolt SLAs (AoV capstone + EA tier-6) plus Divine Wrath; don't forget Master of Light feat for +10 MCL to Sunbolt and Divine Punishment. CHA-based so you can also twist Energy Burst (Fire when it's viable for AoV+Empyrean Magic synergy).

Pure 20 FVS would be good, go drow and you could use the new raid axe
Are you talking about this one (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Torn,_That_Which_Renders_Despair)? Why would you want it for a caster build? :confused:

This probably goes without saying, but: a LOT of your toon's power & defenses are gonna come from gear, past lives, etc. E.g., you can gain a permanent +36 PRR (http://ddowiki.com/page/PRR) from maxing out PDK ITRs + Divine EPLs. So depending on (A) what content you're trying to run and (B) where you are on your TR Train journey, you may have a long way to go, regardless of which build you're using.

[Arkat]

Are you talking about this one (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Torn,_That_Which_Renders_Despair)? Why would you want it for a caster build? :confused:



Wrong axe. This one (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Dusk,_the_Light_Descends).

[goldgolem]

My inclination would be PDK FvS 20 Amaunator running in Exalted Angel for dual Sunbolt SLAs (AoV capstone + EA tier-6) plus Divine Wrath; don't forget Master of Light feat for +10 MCL to Sunbolt and Divine Punishment. CHA-based so you can also twist Energy Burst (Fire when it's viable for AoV+Empyrean Magic synergy).




Thats pretty much what he was before - I tr'd out of that to test the new cleric Sun domain and to compare a few CLR builds to that type of FVS build. (I was a WIS based FVS and I was going got TR to CHA anyway, so thought I would try a few alternative on the way)

The things I was hoping to improve was adding survivability somehow and getting more SLAs so I wasnt waiting on cooldowns. I dont think the build I want exists at the moment - i will probably go back to 20 CHA FVS and just live with getting mashed on reaper

[unbongwah]

Wrong axe. This one (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Dusk,_the_Light_Descends).
Okay, that one makes more sense. :DSeems weird to make an 1H caster weapon that's not a scepter or dagger per usual, but whatever.

[Arkat]

Okay, that one makes more sense. :DSeems weird to make an 1H caster weapon that's not a scepter or dagger per usual, but whatever.

A really cool stylized Sun-shaped morningstar would have been the perfect weapon and model to use for Dusk.

[goldgolem]

I realise I was misunderstanding being uncentered. I thought I would lose evasion if I was uncentered, but apparently not! And it means I can move up to Light Armour over Robes http://ddowiki.com/page/Centered

Im getting a little used to the survivability of the monk levels...

So this opens a possibility of CLR17/MNK2/FVS1

CLR 17 to keep implosion and give me the 2 lvl 9 spells I want (raise and implosion)
MNK uncentered loses 3 WIS and some other nice things, but retains evasion and decent saves + might free up the feats I was spending!
FVS 1 means I dont get the juicy sp regen at lvl 2 but I do get scourge for extra damage and +2% crit chance, which seems better than the 18th lvl of CLR


Possible light armours?
Celestial Sage http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Leathers_of_the_Celestial_Sage If I dont get ISFM or a dodge bonus on other gear, I prefer this over +2 profane
Mist Laden Vestments http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Mist-laden_Vestment

What do you think?

[Arkat]

Possible light armours?
Celestial Sage http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Leathers_of_the_Celestial_Sage If I dont get ISFM or a dodge bonus on other gear, I prefer this over +2 profane
Mist Laden Vestments http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Mist-laden_Vestment

What do you think?

If you're not going to commit to re-doing all your equipment to take advantage of the Ravenloft equipment set bonuses, I'd definitely stick with the Leathers of the Celestial Sage.

[goldgolem]

So light armour might be out. I lose a small AC bonus by being uncentered, and if I use the light armour I lose the AC bonus from Wisdom

"The Monk's Wisdom-based Armor Class bonus does not fully rely on the Centered state. This bonus has the same armor, shield, and encumbrance requirements as centered, but the Monk's weapons don't matter. A Monk still gets this bonus if he is uncentered only because of his weapons. This is intentional"

Damage mitigation

At 30 Im at 100 AC. If I lose the monk bonus by adding light armour I go down to about 70 AC, which is useless (but maybe the armour will add some back)

Even if I keep the 100 AC, my improved evasion saves are at about 70. The AC and the saves doesnt seem worth it for reaper

Dodge is ok at 30%, it could be higher but I have lowered it to pump the light damage

So maybe there is no viable saves/damage mitigation build available for light damage build in reaper

----

So If I ignore damage mitigation completely and go full out light damage, CLR17/FVS2/1DRD might work out best. Then the idea would be to wear heavy armour, but Im not sure if I can cast any spells. I dont know if the wiki means metal armour on a druid stops you from casting any spells, or any druid spells

1 drd would give summer +5 light SP and +2% critical chance for 6ap
2 fvs would give Scourge ¬+15 light SP, +2% critical chance and the temp SP buffs for 10ap
Swapping out monk feats would mean 2x mental toughness for +2% critical chance
Axe gives +30% crit chance
Scion gives +30% crit chance

That would be a lot of aggro with very little defense or CC...

[Tilomere]

I saw "Light damage help" and was ready to jump in with my suggestions on how to help our poor Pale Master brothers and sisters survive those naughty Drow Priestesses who want to DP us.


Hehehe, no one needs help dealing light damage on a cleric, it's heavy damage that is tricksy. Of did you mean to suggest wearing a helmet?


Im lvl 29 now and still frustrated. I cant make light damage really work, you have to be second best at everything and nothing clicks



You have to wombo>combo.

First you have to make them helpless, which means sound burst, BoGW, and dire charge.
Second, you have to have a ton of helpless damage.
Third, you have to rotate AoE spells using light spell power (or another spell power that substitutes for light).


Building landing soundburst and BoGW and dire charge means mostly pure cleric for spell pen. Since we also want dire charge at cap powered by wisdomx1.5 DC, we need 1 level of FVS for divine presence (http://ddowiki.com/page/War_Soul_enhancements) (tactics bonus equal to half wisdom bonus). This leads to a 17/2/1 cleric/fvs/barb (duh for run speed), since we will also take just rewards to proc off a lantern ring.

There are only 2 domains that boost BoGW and Sound Burst, magic and air. Magic domain will combine with a LGS vacuum negative stick for alignment spells due to DD core 1. This also adds vulnerability for 20% more damage.

With sense weakness/evo/evo/tactics twisted in EA, you get 85% bonus damage on helpless mobs. This sets up our Wombo.

Then use your negative spell power to fuel master of alignment AoE spells on a true neutral cleric. These are the only set of AoE spells a cleric has that are fueled by a Master of X feat for epic scaling. Need to be true neutral to get all the spells of Master of Alignment. This is your combo part of the Wombo>combo.

You don't want to splash more than 3 levels, because it cuts into your spell pen, and you lose implosion.

Heroic feats are Evox2, Quicken, PL Wiz, Completionist, spell penx2,


Epic feats: Spellpen#3, Master of Alignment, negative Spell power, BoGW, mass frog, dire charge, scion of air, maximize

Wear plate and a shield.

Go dragonborn for 3 more Evo dc and spell pen. (AP in dragonborn, AoV, DD)
Take just rewards to fuel maximize use full time at cap with a meridian fragment and maximize reduction from DD.

Between helpless or rebuke foe 1.25-1.85x damage, double max caster level 2x damage, vulnerability 1.2x damage, and higher spell power from LGS negative vacuum stick/free maximize 1.4x damage, maybe even weak aoe cleric spells will do something?

[goldgolem]

Thanks Tilo, thats a very different way to look at it.

Could also go pure FVS possibly (using CHA for the tactics bonus)? It would also power the EA Soundburst SLA. I could hit 100 sustainable CHA on the FVS.


Destiny
I would have to give up sunbolt, searing light, divine punishment boosts by not going master of light, and give up divine wrath, a sunbolt and a searing light spells by not running in EA. Also I would miss Transcendental Magic: Passive Bonus:+3 to the DC of all your spells and quite a bit of damage boosting light effects

Is running in LD just for Combat Brute helpless bonus?

A weird damage measure I have across these build is: On Normal Strahd, can one round of my SLAs take out a flaming skull?
On my pure FVS with fewer SLAs, it could easily take out a skull with with 2x sunbolt and a searing light. I do the same now on my cleric with more SLAs, each doing slightly less damage. The cleric has better gear than the FVS had, so I would say the FVS is still stronger than my current CLR/MNK build

Either way, It looks like LGS vacuum is probably my best choice for offhand

Feat
Currently I run Scion of Celestia for
+20 Positive, Light, & Alignment Spell Power, +20 Universal Spell Power
+30% Crit Damage with Positive, Light, & Alignment spells

So I would have to weigh the 30% drop in crit damage vs the +4 Evoc DC from Plane of Air

Feat
Master of alignment gives: Your Holy Smite, Deific Vengeance, Unholy Blight, Chaos Hammer, and Order's Wrath spells get +10 to their maximum caster level.Grants +140 Maximum Spell Points.

*I never really got any decent damage out of those alignment spells (not that I tried very hard)

My Sunbolts and Divine Wrath hit for 5kish at cap now. DW occasionally getting near the 10k I used to get on my pure FVS


--
Separately, I like the concept of building for helpless damage on a caster. It seem sorc/fvs might work here too?

ps wiki says: Heighten Spell does not affect Spell Penetration calculations.

pps I hate the movement animation of Dragonborne, it seems so slow! :D

[Quikster]

Thanks Tilo, thats a very different way to look at it.

Could also go pure FVS possibly (using CHA for the tactics bonus)? It would also power the EA Soundburst SLA. I could hit 100 sustainable CHA on the FVS.


Destiny
I would have to give up sunbolt, searing light, divine punishment boosts by not going master of light, and give up divine wrath, a sunbolt and a searing light spells by not running in EA. Also I would miss Transcendental Magic: Passive Bonus:+3 to the DC of all your spells and quite a bit of damage boosting light effects

Is running in LD just for Combat Brute helpless bonus?

A weird damage measure I have across these build is: On Normal Strahd, can one round of my SLAs take out a flaming skull?
On my pure FVS with fewer SLAs, it could easily take out a skull with with 2x sunbolt and a searing light. I do the same now on my cleric with more SLAs, each doing slightly less damage. The cleric has better gear than the FVS had, so I would say the FVS is still stronger than my current CLR/MNK build

Either way, It looks like LGS vacuum is probably my best choice for offhand

Feat
Currently I run Scion of Celestia for
+20 Positive, Light, & Alignment Spell Power, +20 Universal Spell Power
+30% Crit Damage with Positive, Light, & Alignment spells

So I would have to weigh the 30% drop in crit damage vs the +4 Evoc DC from Plane of Air

Feat
Master of alignment gives: Your Holy Smite, Deific Vengeance, Unholy Blight, Chaos Hammer, and Order's Wrath spells get +10 to their maximum caster level.Grants +140 Maximum Spell Points.

*I never really got any decent damage out of those alignment spells (not that I tried very hard)

My Sunbolts and Divine Wrath hit for 5kish at cap now. DW occasionally getting near the 10k I used to get on my pure FVS


--
Separately, I like the concept of building for helpless damage on a caster. It seem sorc/fvs might work here too?

ps wiki says: Heighten Spell does not affect Spell Penetration calculations.

pps I hate the movement animation of Dragonborne, it seems so slow! :D


Been running a FVS evoker this life, light spec’d Sun Elf. It’s been ok, and might be better with gear, but helpless damage definitely helps. Do not have the axe, or lgs. Will try it again on my last sun elf life. Most definitely fun to play, but still lacking a bit. When in trouble I still fall back on B.B. kiting with wings.