Butcher - the master of Knives

[Dream_Marauder]

I'm curious to get some takes on this VKF Tempest build. It will play mainly as a 2-knife melee build, but with decent damage output with throwing knives when going to ranged combat. Thanks in advance!

Butcher
13/6/1 Rogue/Ranger/Barbarian
True Neutral Human


Level Order

1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Rogue. . . . . 11. Ranger. . . . .16. Rogue
2. Barbarian . . . 7. Ranger . . . . 12. Ranger. . . . .17. Rogue
3. Ranger. . . . . 8. Rogue . . . . .13. Rogue . . . . .18. Rogue
4. Rogue. . . . . .9. Ranger. . . . .14. Rogue . . . . .19. Rogue
5. Ranger. . . . .10. Rogue . . . . .15. Rogue . . . . .20. Rogue


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 10. . . .+6. . . .4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 18. . . .+6. . . .8: DEX
Constitution. . 14. . . .+6. . . 12: DEX
Intelligence. . 16. . . .+6. . . 16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . .+6. . . 20: DEX
Charisma. . . . 10. . . .+6. . . 24: DEX
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: DEX

Skills
. . . . .Rg Bn Rn Rg Rn Rg Rn Rg Rn Rg Rn Rn Rg Rg Rg Rg Rg Rg Rg Rg
. . . . . 1. 2 .3. 4. 5 .6 .7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Disable . 4. 1 .1. 1. 1 .1 .1. 1. 1 .1 .1. . .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .2 .1 .23
Open Lo . 4. . . . 1. . .2 . . 2. . .2 .½. ½ .1 .2 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .2 .23
Search. . 4. . .1. 1. 1 .1 .1. 1. 1 .1 .1. 1 .1 .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Spot. . . 4. . .1. 1. 1 .1 .1. 1. 1 .1 .1. 1 .1 .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Bluff . . 4. ½ . . 2. . .1 .½. 1. . .2 . . . .3 .2 .1 .1 .1 .2 .1 .1 .23
Balance . 4. 1 . . 2. . .1 . . 1. ½ .2 . . ½ .1 .2 .1 .2 .2 .1 .1 .1 .23
Jump. . . 4. 1 .1. 1. 1 .1 .1. 1. 1 .1 .1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Hide. . . 4. . .1. 1. 1 .1 .1. 1. 1 .1 .1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Move Si . 4. . .1. 1. 1 .1 .1. 1. 1 .1 .1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
UMD . . . 4. 1 . . 1. . .1 .½. 2. ½ .1 .½. 1½ 2. 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Heal. . . 2. . .3. . .3. . .2. . .2. . .2. 1 . . . . . ½. 1½ 1½ 1½ 1 .21
Tumble. . 4. . . . . . . 1. . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1. .7
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .48. 8 10 12 10 12 11 13 11 13 11 11 13 13 14 14 14 14 14 14


Feats

.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.1 Human. : Improved Feint
.3. . . . : Precision
.6. . . . : Dodge
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Piercing
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Thrown
15. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Doubleshot
30 Epic . : Improved Sneak Attack
30 Legend : Scion of: Ethereal Plane

17 Rogue. : Opportunist
20 Rogue. : Improved Evasion

.3 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant
11 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Spells

Ranger Ram's Might, Merfolk's Blessing

Enhancements (80 AP)

Vistani Knife Fighter (41 AP) Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades, Vistani Fortune, Knife Master Vistani Knife Training, Undead Hunter, Mist Stalker, Acrobatic II, Rapid Attack
Vistani Knife Training, Bleeding Cuts, Mist Stalker, Weapon Versatility, Haste Boost
Vistani Knife Training, Fan of Knives, Mist Stalker, Deadly Blades, Dexterity
Vistani Knife Training, Celerity, Mist Stalker, Double Daggers, Dexterity
Tempest (38 AP) Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death Improved Reaction III, Improved Defense III, Whirling Blades
Improved Parry III, Bleed Them Out III, Whirling Blades
Storm Dancer, Whirling Blades
Storm Tempest, The Growing Storm III, Whirling Blades
Dual Perfection, Cuts: A Thousand Cuts III, Dance of Death III
Deepwood Stalker (1 AP) Far Shot

Destiny (24 AP)

Fury of the Wild Primal Scream III, Fast Healing III, Constitution
Damage Reduction III, Constitution
(none)
Gird Against Demons II, Overwhelming Force III
Fury Eternal
Unbridled Fury
Twists of Fate (22 fate points) Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
Whirling Wrists (Tier 3 Shiradi)
Unearthly Reactions (Tier 1 Magister)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)

[unbongwah]

Last time I tested, WWA is still pretty bad with weapons especially TWF (since you don't get glancing blows, doublestrikes, nor offhand procs). It's not something I bother with outside of unarmed monks and tree builds; I'd definitely skip it on a build with Dance of Death, which saves a few feats.

In which case, I would consider rog 13 / rgr 6 / barb 1 for the extra runspeed (since you don't even have the APs to spare for Acrobat Fast Movement) and to add Opportunist. Or a monk splash instead for +10 MP from Henshin would be a perfect use for that 1 spare AP.

[Dream_Marauder]

Last time I tested, WWA is still pretty bad with weapons especially TWF (since you don't get glancing blows, doublestrikes, nor offhand procs). It's not something I bother with outside of unarmed monks and tree builds; I'd definitely skip it on a build with Dance of Death, which saves a few feats.

In which case, I would consider rog 13 / rgr 6 / barb 1 for the extra runspeed (since you don't even have the APs to spare for Acrobat Fast Movement) and to add Opportunist. Or a monk splash instead for +10 MP from Henshin would be a perfect use for that 1 spare AP.

Not relevant for this build, but out of curiosity, does WWA not work for handwraps, since they converted those into a weapon?

I like your suggestions though - WWA was basically in there because I found myself with more feats than I knew what to do with. I like the barb suggestion. I would really have liked a bunch more AP to spend in Assassin, but it wasn't worth dropping my aspirations of having capstone / tier 5. Thanks!

[Saekee]

I suggest the feat ‘improved feint.’

I feel like butcher knives are small slashing weapons and might be better characterized as kukris...

[Dream_Marauder]

Updated the build with suggestions incorporated. Thanks!

[Saekee]

since you are taking rogue at level 1, you can take improved feint at that level. It is a fantastically good feat if you buff your bluff skill.

[Dream_Marauder]

since you are taking rogue at level 1, you can take improved feint at that level. It is a fantastically good feat if you buff your bluff skill.

I just made a lvl 10 test character with improved feint. I would have to agree that this feat is a lot of fun... It's nice getting that bluff off without breaking your attack sequence. Updated the build again, thanks

[Saekee]

I just made a lvl 10 test character with improved feint. I would have to agree that this feat is a lot of fun... It's nice getting that bluff off without breaking your attack sequence. Updated the build again, thanks

it even seems to add an attack into the chain!

[Nordenfeldt]

it even seems to add an attack into the chain!

If you went Ranger 12, Rogue 8, you would get for free two of the feats you are purchasing...

[unbongwah]

If you went Ranger 12, Rogue 8, you would get for free two of the feats you are purchasing...
Rog 12 is pre-req for Improved Sneak Attack epic feat. So if OP switches to rog 8 / rgr 12 vs rog 13 / rgr 6 like I recommended, they're giving up 6d6 sneak atk: 3d6 from rog lvls, 3d6 from ISA feat. Vistani already provides Deflect Arrows and +1 crit multiplier, rendering Tempest's lvl 12 core redundant / useless; and there's not enough APs to spare to invest into AA or DWS's lvl 12 cores. Besides, what two heroic feats do you think this build really needs but lacks?

[Dream_Marauder]

If you went Ranger 12, Rogue 8, you would get for free two of the feats you are purchasing...

Yes, thank you for the input. I agree with unbongwah though. I'd much rather have the extra sneak attack dice than two more feats. Not to mention the extra rogue feat (lets me have both opportunist and improved evasion).