Sword and Board build for second life.

[Malkariss]

Hello all and thanks for reading! Im looking for a build to try out for my second life. Been running a CC warlock and a shuriken thrower and im looking for my second life to be more of an all in playstyle. I like the idea of a sword and board tank using a bastard sword and tower shield and was hoping to be self sufficient. To give myself some healing and some buffs I was thinking of picking up bard levels or for better saves and such paladin levels. Just wanted some thoughts and suggestions or to see some other builds you guys had come up with that fits this type of style. (To be honest I really wanted an EK build for the perma tensors and the enhancement that gives false life every 6 seconds based on shield but Ive been told EK is a very lack luster prestige and that for both tanking and DPS im better off with fighter/bard or fighter/pally.) To recap im looking for a self healing tank that is still capable of dishing out decent damage. Show me what you guys got! Thanks again all.

[GreenBastred]

Human Cleric 14/6 Fighter
War Domain

28 Point
Strength 16
Dexterity 8
Constitution 14
Intelligence 12
Wisdom 10
Charisma 14

32 Point
Strength 16
Dexterity 8
Constitution 14
Intelligence 12
Wisdom 14
Charisma 14

All level ups into Strength.

Skills: Jump, Heal, (UMD), Search

Level 1 (Cleric) Feat: (Deity) Follower the Blood of Vol
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack Feat: Two Handed Fighting
Level 2 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery (Large Shield Best to use overall)
Level 3 (Cleric) Feat: Empower Healing Spell Domain: War
Level 4 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave or Stunning Blow
Level 5 (Cleric)
Level 6 (Fighter) Feat: Improved Shield Bash
Level 7 (Cleric)
Level 8 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Level 9 (Cleric) Feat: Extend Spell War Domain: You gain proficiency in all Martial and Exotic weapons.
Level 10 (Fighter)
Level 11 (Cleric)
Level 12 (Fighter) Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery Feat: Quicken Spell
Level 13 (Cleric)
Level 14 (Cleric)
Level 15 (Cleric) Feat: Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Level 16 (Cleric)
Level 17 (Cleric)
Level 18 (Cleric) Feat: Greater Two Handed Fighting
Level 19 (Cleric)
Level 20 (Cleric)

Vanguard 19 AP
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - To the Fore! I
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Combat I
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Vicious Shield I
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - No Weakness I
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Shield Smash III
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Brutality III
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Stunning Shield III
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Action Boost: Melee and Ranged Power III
Enhancement: Vanguard (Ftr) - Follow Up III

Warpriest 22 AP
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Foe I
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Resilience of Battle I
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Sanctuary I
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might III
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness III
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Sacred Touch I
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Weakness I
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel III
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Burden of Sin III
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Strength I
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Ameliorating Strike I

Stalwart Defender 39 AP
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Toughness I
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defense I
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense III
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defensive Mastery III
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense III
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Shield Mastery III
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Armor Expertise III
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense III
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Expertise III
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Swift Defense I
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense III
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Reinforced Armor III
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Reprisal III
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Block and Cut III
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Reinforced Shield III


If starting at level 1: Use a Two Handed Weapon early on. Switch to S&B when you get Exotic weapon proficiency from Cleric War Domain Dwarven Axe or Bastard Sword.
Level 10 start Stalwart Defender 13 AP (Stalwart Stance PRR MRR, Saves, 20% HP) and full 22 AP in to Warpriest for Ameliorating Strike.
Or if you would like to start using Stunning Shield add the Vanguard AP and the rest in to Stalwart Defender. What ever you like best.

Could go as low as 7 Cleric and I would suggest Strength or Luck Domain.

Edit: If you want to go pure i would suggest Paladin S&B for self healing and awesome defense good damage.

[unbongwah]

I like the idea of a sword and board tank using a bastard sword and tower shield and was hoping to be self sufficient.
The obvious choice is pure paladin Vanguard: ideally PDK for the free b.sword prof from Helm, but human works fine too.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/451677-Sacred-Vanguards-(aka-Revisiting-S-amp-B-Paladins-for-New-Players)
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/470842-Vanguard-Paladin-for-new-players

Less obvious is a Swashbuckler / fighter hybrid. This is probably the most tank-y of the options.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/444545-The-dwarven-defender-parody

(To be honest I really wanted an EK build for the perma tensors and the enhancement that gives false life every 6 seconds based on shield but Ive been told EK is a very lack luster prestige and that for both tanking and DPS im better off with fighter/bard or fighter/pally.)
All of that is correct.

[Malkariss]

Less obvious is a Swashbuckler / fighter hybrid. This is probably the most tank-y of the options

How does the dps from this hybrid stack up against a fighter/pally build? I thought the dps from a pure pally build was subpar?

[Selvera]

I did a bard/fighter/rogue build, swashbuckling with handaxes and bucklers and the damage it could output was very high, especially after level 10 (when I was able to use the forgotten axe), and at cap (with the legendary forgotten axe).

*Edit* I took a look at the build Unbongwash linked for the build; and it's different then mine in a fair number of ways (It uses con as the main stat instead of cha or dex, and it invests in racial enhancements instead of kensai), but it also has a lot of similarities (they have the same class/level split and are handaxe+buckler builds).

My build is probably a little higher damage and lower HP then that build. But both builds should be good at multiplying the effect of every defense or offense boost/gear/past-life you get to about "double" value.

[unbongwah]

How does the dps from this hybrid stack up against a fighter/pally build? I thought the dps from a pure pally build was subpar?
Swashbuckler has a couple of big advantages over Vanguard: higher attack speed (+30% from GSWF feat vs +20% from lvl 20 VG core) and +1.5x dmg mod (vs 1x for traditional S&B). Also if you use handaxes on a bard / fighter combo like the build I linked, your critical threat range is 15-18/x4 19-20/x7 in LD; whereas the best a pally VG using Spinal Tap (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Spinal_Tap) (still the best named b.sword AFAIK due to x3 base crits) gets is 16-18/x4 19-20/x6 in LD or 15-18/x4 19-20/x5 in Crusader. B.swords have higher base damage and get glancing blows (http://ddowiki.com/page/Glancing_blows), but those aren't enough to make up the single-target DPS difference.

The biggest downside to Swashbuckler is the gear restrictions; in particular you can only use light armor and bucklers, so you start out at an AC and PRR disadvantage compared to a classic S&B Vanguard. OTOH you should have much higher Dodge and as a bard you can self-buff with Displacement; so even if you dump AC you still have a pretty good miss chance.

[GreenBastred]

Sure nice to smack em all in the face with your shield, stun and just stand there tanking with 65% shield AC 50% Armor AC high Saves PRR MRR, spreading the love around with Bastard Sword glancing blows and cleaves!

Edit: Then pressing Block and Cut followed by Ameliorating Strike for a double hit heal :cool:

[Malkariss]

Sure nice to smack em all in the face with your shield, stun and just stand there tanking with 65% shield AC 50% Armor AC high Saves PRR MRR, spreading the love around with Bastard Sword glancing blows and cleaves!

Edit: Then pressing Block and Cut followed by Ameliorating Strike for a double hit heal :cool:

Im assuming this is what a pure pally build does? Or the build you mentioned above?

[GreenBastred]

Im assuming this is what a pure pally build does? Or the build you mentioned above?

Pure Pally doesnt have Block and Cut unfortunately. This is actually an idea i originally saw from Ellisdee's Kensai Warpriest build. Unbongwah fleshed it out actually :)


S&B is all about the doublestrike:

15% from Shield Mastery feats & Legendary SM (US)
15% Enhancement (EE First Blood (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:First_Blood))
6% morale bonus
5% Alchemical bonus
3% Artifact bonus
3% Hail of Blows (GMoF)
25% from Block & Cut in T5 Stalwart D. tree (10 sec. duration, 20 sec. cooldown)


That's 47% base doublestrike once fully kitted out, 72% while B&C is active; so the idea would be to use B&C just before using Smite Foe to max out chance of double-procing Ameliorating Strikes. If I also double-proc Smite Weakness, well, so much the better. :)

AP costs make things tight, though: I need to spend at least 33 APs in SD for B&C, 22 APs in WP for Ameliorating Strike. Which leaves 25 APs for whatever else I need/want.

Edit: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/426765-Kensei-Warpriest-for-new-players-(Human-12-8-Fighter-Cleric)

Could add in 3-4 levels of Pally for added Saves from Divine Grace and would enable you to overlap some AC from Sacred Defender if you ever need it by moving some AP around.
Cleric 9/8 Fighter/3 Pally could work. Luck or Strength Domain.

An idea i got from the Elven Steel Maiden build. https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/476148-The-Elven-Steel-Maiden-(-AC-Fighter-)?highlight=elven+steel+maiden

[Selvera]

Just a note about the double-heal from Amol. I have run a pali/fvs bastardsword + shield build, and Amol seemed to heal 2ce on average, but there was a low chance that it would heal 3 or even 4 times; with sword + shield!

So that makes me think that it's not just doublestrike which double-heals; I'm guessing you also get a chance from the shield bash, and also a chance from "weapon effects on glancing blows" or something like that. (I can't really verify that, but not sure how else I was getting a 4th heal about 1% of the time).

Oh, and if you're looking at taking SD tier 5s and Warpriest tier 4s, You might prefer favored soul to cleric; just take a moment to see how whatever domain you would have picked stacks up to favored soul advantages at level 9. Pali/fvs have a synergy in that they both use cha decently well.

[GreenBastred]

Just a note about the double-heal from Amol. I have run a pali/fvs bastardsword + shield build, and Amol seemed to heal 2ce on average, but there was a low chance that it would heal 3 or even 4 times; with sword + shield!

So that makes me think that it's not just doublestrike which double-heals; I'm guessing you also get a chance from the shield bash, and also a chance from "weapon effects on glancing blows" or something like that. (I can't really verify that, but not sure how else I was getting a 4th heal about 1% of the time).

Oh, and if you're looking at taking SD tier 5s and Warpriest tier 4s, You might prefer favored soul to cleric; just take a moment to see how whatever domain you would have picked stacks up to favored soul advantages at level 9. Pali/fvs have a synergy in that they both use cha decently well.

This sounds promising. An average double heal is great but 3-4 is amazing! What % was your doublestrike and secondary shield bash at the time?

I havent tried Favored Soul yet. Nice versatility with Charisma and Wisdom. Could be nice with Helm.

Would be a very effective Paralyzing Arrow with some kind of AA build unless you need to be a full time Aura healer.

[Malkariss]

This sounds promising. An average double heal is great but 3-4 is amazing! What % was your doublestrike and secondary shield bash at the time?

I havent tried Favored Soul yet. Nice versatility with Charisma and Wisdom. Could be nice with Helm.

Would be a very effective Paralyzing Arrow with some kind of AA build unless you need to be a full time Aura healer.

Ok so... I hear alot of things that sound amazing but at the same time I dont know half these abbreviations lol. Can someone break this build we are talking about down for me one more time lol. Also one of the links you guys shared at one point had a build that claimed over 300 ac... IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE?????

*edit* Its the iron maiden build that shows over 300 ac... I cant even believe you can get that high and if you can how does anything ever hit you lol

[GreenBastred]

Ok so... I hear alot of things that sound amazing but at the same time I dont know half these abbreviations lol. Can someone break this build we are talking about down for me one more time lol. Also one of the links you guys shared at one point had a build that claimed over 300 ac... IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE?????

*edit* Its the iron maiden build that shows over 300 ac... I cant even believe you can get that high and if you can how does anything ever hit you lol

It takes a while to learn all the DDO lingo haha!

400 AC is possible with the right things in place and running Sentinel. The Elven Steel Maiden has multi layered defense with 400 AC 19% Dodge, Elven Displacement, a high PRR MRR (Physical/Magical Resistance Rate). I merely made this build because you wanted self healing and S&B tank. The added links are to show you how the layered defense works and the best explained build I have seen for Ameliorating Strike, Kensai Warpriest. I would suggest you learn the DDO lingo by searching ddo and what ever you might want to learn about (eg PRR). ddowiki is a great help along with this forum.

Because you like to go it alone I would suggest for you to try:

Human (or Purple Dragon Knight) Fighter 10/Cleric 7(Luck Domain)/Paladin 3 or

Elf Fighter 10/Cleric 9 (Strength Domain)/Wizard 1.

I will add builds to reflect this if you would like.

Edit: Character planner is a program that can be downloaded to help you plan and see your build before you start.
http://ddowiki.com/page/Character_planner

[unbongwah]

Pure Pally doesnt have Block and Cut unfortunately. This is actually an idea i originally saw from Ellisdee's Kensai Warpriest build. Unbongwah fleshed it out actually :)
Note that my post is from Update 20, so it was about a year before Vanguard came out and paladin got significantly buffed thru KotC & Holy Sword changes. Somewhere I probably have a pal 14 / ftr 6 S&B build which had Block&Cut + Holy Sword + lvl 12 VG core (+10% atk speed).

That said, what you did is just a different Enhancement spread from what we discussed in this thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/491503-Battle-Cleric-Sword-Shield-Build). You gave up Radiant Servant (aura) for Stalwart Defender (B&C).

[Miow]

Hello all and thanks for reading! Im looking for a build to try out for my second life. Been running a CC warlock and a shuriken thrower and im looking for my second life to be more of an all in playstyle. I like the idea of a sword and board tank using a bastard sword and tower shield and was hoping to be self sufficient. To give myself some healing and some buffs I was thinking of picking up bard levels or for better saves and such paladin levels. Just wanted some thoughts and suggestions or to see some other builds you guys had come up with that fits this type of style. (To be honest I really wanted an EK build for the perma tensors and the enhancement that gives false life every 6 seconds based on shield but Ive been told EK is a very lack luster prestige and that for both tanking and DPS im better off with fighter/bard or fighter/pally.) To recap im looking for a self healing tank that is still capable of dishing out decent damage. Show me what you guys got! Thanks again all.

Personal preference for me is Dwarven axe over bastard sword when going S&B.

[GreenBastred]

Note that my post is from Update 20, so it was about a year before Vanguard came out and paladin got significantly buffed thru KotC & Holy Sword changes. Somewhere I probably have a pal 14 / ftr 6 S&B build which had Block&Cut + Holy Sword + lvl 12 VG core (+10% atk speed).

That said, what you did is just a different Enhancement spread from what we discussed in this thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/491503-Battle-Cleric-Sword-Shield-Build). You gave up Radiant Servant (aura) for Stalwart Defender (B&C).

Actually, i was looking to make a high AC character combination of the Elven Steel Maiden with Kensai Warpriest. The split would be different with Fighter, Cleric, and either 3 Pally (for saves and AC overlap if needed or 1 Wizard (10% AC extra metagenic feat). The 5th tier Stalwart is for Block and Cut is for getting more out of Ameliorating strike wiith a higher doublestrike (and DPS) as well as 50% shield AC ( Plus all the other tier 5 goodies). Strength or Luck domain.

Edit:

Personal preference for me is Dwarven axe over bastard sword when going S&B.

I like Dwarven Axe too :cool:

[Selvera]

This sounds promising. An average double heal is great but 3-4 is amazing! What % was your doublestrike and secondary shield bash at the time?

I havent tried Favored Soul yet. Nice versatility with Charisma and Wisdom. Could be nice with Helm.

Would be a very effective Paralyzing Arrow with some kind of AA build unless you need to be a full time Aura healer.

Umm, it's been a while since I was in that build; although I plan to go back to it (on a different character) in a couple lives on my main. However I do still have a lot of the information behind the build...

15 paladin/4 fvs/1 fighter PDK with Helm; enhancements mostly KotC with some warpriest and sacred defender and just enough in PDK for cha to hit/damage and h-amp. All 3 shield feats, all 3 two handed fighting feats, and a smattering of other feat taxes (IC, ptwf, dire charge) and defensive feats (CE, EDR, Celestia). Sort of made it into an off-tank.

I think I was running in LD for most of it, because I recall trying to keep up blitz for the PRR bonus it gives.

So let's guess some stuff about my stats in this build:
Doublstrike: Total: 54%
0% Past Lives -> I'm pretty sure I didn't have any martial pasts on that character back when I did the build. I have one on her now though.
13% Feat -> PTWF, shield feats
10% spell -> Zeal
7% Epic destiny -> I twisted both shield-based ED abilities, one of them gives doublestrike
17% Item -> Cannith crafted ML 34 grants 17% doublestrike
7% Insightful item -> Legendary pendant of the warrior's focus

Secondary Shield Bash: Total: 40%
20% feat -> Shield bashing
20% item -> I was using the Bastion shield primarily because it doubled my shield bash chance, and thus provided more Amel healing.

Add those up and you get 94%; and as I said I think glancing blow-weapon procs also proc amel; which you can get up to 19% through feats alone, bringing the total to 113%. So on average you get 2.1 heals per use of amel; although anything as low as 1 or as high as 4 is possible.

Also note that with the release of raveloft; those items are no longer best-in-slot items for doublestrike. But I'll probably be using them for a bit longer as I figure out how to farm the ravenloft items and work them into a new gearset.

[Malkariss]

Little update... I hit 20 last night and started my second life today. Currently level 3 and enjoying the little bit I've done. I have started with 1 fvs and 2 fighter. I plan to do either a straight ftr/fvs split or drop 3 levels somewhere for 3 levels paladin . Would love to hear you guys thoughts or suggestions for where to go from here. I have taken power attack, bastard sword proficiency, shield mastery, and two weapon fighting thus far.

*edit* I'm considering either a 12/6/2 split (fvs/ftr/pal)
Or a 16/2/2 split for less feats but stronger spells