Cleric Rogue for reaper

[Jaysun]

Ok so I probably stretching things as I know it might not be possible anymore but when I first played I was a 14 cleric/2 rogue and was able to get every trap in the game and heal like a champ. But once arti came out i went full in on repeater builds. I am currently a 18 rogue 2 arti beast but I run with a group all the time and we want to amp up our reaper play.

I want to make a dedicated healer...don't really car to much about casting but wouldnt mind not being useless, BUT what I would like more then anything is to be able to be a heal and do all the traps in the zone. Is this possible?

I have a ton of pass lives, +7 tome...+5 to all skill tomes, ect. I know 2 rogue only gives normal evasion but would I be able to take epic evasion later with only 2 levels of rogue? I mainly want to be able to heal/do all traps.

Anyone recommend a race/build? Anyone tried one of these before in epic/reaper.

Thanks! Look forward to hearing what everyone has to say.

PS, I prefer repeater/great crossbow as a weapon if possible.

[C-Dog]

Unless you do an Int build, there is no way a build focusing on a primary class that has only 2 skill pts/level can cross-class to all of Spot/Search/Disable/(1/2) Lock/ & UMD (which is the usual goal for a Trapper type).

You can do Locks w/o any problem, which is not a bad perq, and if you, personally, know where all the Traps are you can do 95% of content without Spot. That still requires a high starting Int + Int tome, but it can be done.

Otherwise, you need more than 2 levels of Rogue.

GL.

[Kriogen]

For "just healing" you don't have to be single-class lvl 20 Cleric.

Rogue2/Arty2/Cleric16. Its like a Machine-gun nun :p

INT based (start with high INT, levelup points into INT). You will want Harper tree (for INT to damage and hit). Other stats: CON(is not a dump stat), DEX (pre-req for archery feats), enough WIS to be able to cast spells (though tomes and gear counts so you can more or less dump it).

Race: Human (+1 skill point per level) or INT based. Drow, Gnome. Sun Elf would be cool, but 1st level should be Rogue. So Human, Drow, Gnome.

Feats: for healing I'd take Quicken(must), Empowered Healing(nice but optional) and Enlarge. The rest is for repeater.

Class order: 1st level Rogue, then spread rogue and arty levels evenly for 2 to 20. To maximize skills.

[Vish]

I put together a vistani Harper cleric
14/3/3
See beloved spy of vol in cleric

[SirValentine]

I want to make a dedicated healer...don't really car to much about casting but wouldnt mind not being useless, BUT what I would like more then anything is to be able to be a heal and do all the traps in the zone. Is this possible?



Anyone tried one of these before in epic/reaper.



PS, I prefer repeater/great crossbow as a weapon if possible.


Sure, it's possible.

I routinely found all traps on a non-Int-build pure Cleric with few or zero ranks in Search, in Epic before Reaper existed, and in Heroic Reaper. Between past lives and the super-inflated stats available on gear, you should be able to get traps fine on a Rogue splash.

You mention casting, and also crossbow. Personally, I might do either crossbow/trapping/healing, maybe as a 11-15Clr/5-6Rog, possibly w some Arti or Ftr, etc. Or, a casting/healing/trapping build, as an 18Clr/2Rog.

Others might think differently, but I'd feel I was stretching myself too thin, feat-wise, enhancement-wise, and gear-wise, to try to be good at both offensive casting and ranged crossbow DPS.

[unbongwah]

would I be able to take epic evasion later with only 2 levels of rogue?
I presume you mean Improved Evasion (http://ddowiki.com/page/Improved_evasion), to which the answer is no. That requires monk lvl 9 or rogue lvl 10. The Tempest enhancement Evasive Dance has the same effect too.

War domain Holy Sword should work with xbows just like the paladin spell does. So if you have Harper too, that opens several options for xbow / healer combos, depending largely on how many cleric lvls you want: e.g., cleric 18 / arty 2, cleric 15 / arty 4 (Endless Fusilade) / ftr 1, or cleric 15 / arty 2 / ftr 3 (2 feats plus defensive stance).

Let's look at the 15/4/1 split:

Machine Gun Nun Reborn!
15/4/1 Cleric/Artificer/Fighter
Chaotic Good Human


Level Order

1. Artificer 6. Cleric 11. Cleric 16. Cleric
2. Artificer 7. Cleric 12. Fighter 17. Cleric
3. Cleric 8. Cleric 13. Cleric 18. Cleric
4. Cleric 9. Cleric 14. Artificer 19. Cleric
5. Cleric 10. Cleric 15. Artificer 20. Cleric


Stats
36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 8 +7 4: INT
Dexterity 15 +7 8: INT
Constitution 16 +7 12: INT
Intelligence 18 +7 16: INT
Wisdom 10 +7 20: INT
Charisma 8 +7 24: INT
28: INT

Skills
A A C C C C C C C C C F C A A C C C C C
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Heal 5 2 2 1 1 1 1 2 3 1 1 1 2 23
Disable 4 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Search 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Spot 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 23
UMD 4 1 1 9 3 1 1 1 1 1 23
Open Lo 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 5 1 1 1 1 21
Repair 4 1 5
Spellcr 4 1 5
Haggle 2 2 4
Balance 2 2
Tumble 1 1
------------------------------------------------------------
36 9 7 8 8 8 8 9 9 9 9 10 10 12 12 11 11 11 11 12


Feats

1 : Point Blank Shot
1 Human : Precise Shot
3 : Maximize Spell
6 : Empower Healing Spell
9 : Quicken Spell
12 : Rapid Shot OR Empower Spell
12 Fighter: Improved Critical: Ranged
15 : Precision OR Completionist
15 Arti : Improved Precise Shot
18 : Insightful Reflexes OR Completionist
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Positive OR Holy Strike OR Pierce Damage Reduction: Silver
27 Epic : Blinding Speed OR Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Fount of Life OR Deific Warding OR Embodiment of Law
30 Epic : Intensify Spell OR Epic Damage Reduction
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea OR Celestia

4 Cleric : War Domain

3 Deity : Follower of: Olladra
8 Deity : Luck of Olladra


Enhancements (76 of 80 AP)

Radiant Servant (34 AP)

Healing Domain, Pacifism, Positive Energy Burst, Improved Empower Healing

Extra Turning III, Bliss II
Improved Turning III
Intense Healing III, Unyielding Sovereignty
Endless Turning III, Divine Health
Positive Energy Aura, Cure Focus



Battle Engineer (27 AP)

Battle Engineer, Infused Weapons

Crossbow Training, Field Engineer III
Crossbow Training, Extra Action Boost III, Action Boost: Attack III
Crossbow Training
Crossbow Training, Endless Fusilade, Agility Engine III



Harper Agent (12 AP)

Agent of Good I

Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Versatile Adept II, Know the Angles III
Strategic Combat



Human (3 AP)

Damage Boost

Improved Recovery




Destiny (24 AP)

Divine Crusader

Bane of Undeath, Endless Turning II, Interrogation, Purge the Wicked
Consecration III
Sacred Ground, Empyrean Magic, Blessed Blades
No Regret, Crusade
Castigation, Heavenly Presence, Celestial Champion


Twists of Fate (31 fate points)

Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
Renewal (Tier 3 Sentinel)
Pin (Tier 2 Shiradi)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
Extra Action Boost (Tier 1 Dreadnought)


Tried to split APs and feats evenly between DPS (ranged feats, BE, Kensei, Harper) and healing (metamagics, Radiant Servant). Divine Crusader is my go-to ED for divine hybrid caster / <melee or ranged> toons, since it's got a mix of DPS boosts (Celestial Champion, Zeal of the Righteous) and extra healing (Sacred Ground and +5 CL to cleric spells). Likewise Twists are a mix of DPS (Grim Precision, Pin) and extra heals (Renewal, Cocoon). Has a TON of action boosts - Kensei Haste, BE Ranged Power, human Ranged Power, and Endless Fusilade - as well as Zeal of the Righteous and Know the Angles to manage, so uhh hope you like keeping your fingers dancin' over them buttons. :cool:

Chaotic Good is just for Blessed Blades; I actually haven't checked yet to see if Chaotic or Lawful is better for Ravenloft. If you don't plan to use Blessed Blades, you can take True Neutral instead to avoid neg-leveling from evil-tainted gear etc.

[Jaysun]

I presume you mean Improved Evasion (http://ddowiki.com/page/Improved_evasion), to which the answer is no.

I actually meant Epic Reflexes, that was my fault. I don't think I can play a build without evade and I believe that epic reflexes would all I need with normal evade since I plan to not fail on a 1. Improved evasion only halves the damage so I think I would be fine without it.

After reading everyones replies I am thinking that I would prefer 18/2 rogue or 17/3 rogue. How much do I lose by going the 1 extra level of rogue? I was thinking of making a repeater build but with the focus in Ravenloft on great crossbows I might go knife fighter (throwing). I dunno, I prefer ranged dps and don't mind doing casting/CC. I might stick to a para based repeater also. Anyone have a build or history with something similar? I really dislike melee so not interested in any build with melee.

Thanks

Coin

[C-Dog]

After reading everyones replies I am thinking that I would prefer 18/2 rogue or 17/3 rogue. How much do I lose by going the 1 extra level of rogue?...
Only thing you lose is whatever Core 18 you'd have taken - if Radiant Servant, a so-so healing SLA (Positive Energy Shield), if War Chanter, you lose +20 HP and BAB = Level.


o http://ddowiki.com/page/Radiant_Servant_enhancements#Core_abilities
o http://ddowiki.com/page/Radiant_Servant_enhancements#Core_abilities

So... meh, not a whole lot.


If riffing off Unbong's suggestion above*, that's no diff since that already stops at Cleric 15. However, if you go that low you do lose Level 9 spells; since you say you're not combat casting and only Healing, that's Mass Heal and True Resurrection (100% HP instead of 50%).

So the question is - is trading away +3 more non-cleric levels worth those 2 spells (and a couple Lvl 8 spell slots)? You're looking to build a hybrid - you can't have 100% if both. And you don't want to be a gimp archer just so you can be a 100% healer (I'm guessing?). So, can 2 non-cleric class levels get you what you want re combat? Alternately, what would those 3 extra X-class levels get you?

Rog Mechanic has THE strongest Enhancements for Cross-bows - and that means Mechanic Tier 5 (http://ddowiki.com/page/Mechanic_enhancements#Tier_Five), and that means a 15/5 split, call it a win. Without that (or the Tier 4-5 Arti enhancements, as above), any crossbow will be (comparative) weaksauce.


(* If you're not following that build closely, I STRONGLY recommend you use a Character Planner before anything else, to make sure you have a clear, working roadmap that gets you where you want to go from 1-20. In DDO, it's VERY easy to "fake a build" into a dead-end around Level 8-12. GL!)

[SocratesBastardSon]

I would prefer 18/2 rogue or 17/3 rogue. How much do I lose by going the 1 extra level of rogue? I was thinking of making a repeater build but with the focus in Ravenloft on great crossbows I might go knife fighter (throwing). I dunno, I prefer ranged dps and don't mind doing casting/CC. I might stick to a para based repeater also. Anyone have a build or history with something similar? I really dislike melee so not interested in any build with melee.

Thanks

Coin

I've done numerous 18/2 caster/rogue builds and never had any difficulty with traps except with a couple that are too difficult to bother with (one is in Cabal, a couple in Haunted Halls), but they were a problem mostly because of overlapping traps and not having the kind of evasion/reflex a dedicated rogue/trapper would have. And none of them were important, they were just too much hassle to bother with.

It's too bad Zen Archery doesn't benefit damage, but with Harper, ranged trapper splashes are good to go. I'm running a Cleric 18/Art 2 right now and love it. Just before disarming a difficult trap in epic pop off a Cocoon to give yourself a little buffer, and you're good to go, even on Reaper.

As for 18/2 vs. 17/3, the extra d6 from Rogue 3's back stab is nice, but doesn't justify the loss of an 8th and 9th level spell, the potential Core enhancement at level 18, loss of spellpoints, and the loss of a point of DC for offensive spells. To me it's no contest: 18/2 is best.

Finally, Repeater vs. Great XBow. I recommend repeater for several reasons, but the main one being GXBs don't come into their own until you have t4 or t5 in Mechanic, preferably t5. Then they are a portable artillery piece. So that means something like a 15/5 split if you really want to excel at ranged. At 18/2, you're ranged support, but as a utility player that handles healing and trapping, that's as it should be.