U36 Patch 3 First Preview Release Notes

[Cocomajobo]

[EDIT2: Lamannia is now open!]

[EDIT: Added more known issues encountered while approving the build. In addition: Lammania has been updated. The build has been approved. We are going through the process of doing a character wipe and setting all the world properties to what they need to be before players are allowed in. We intend to open tonight within the next hour or two. Will put out an announcement when it is open.]

After additional delays, a Lamannia preview that includes some (but not all) of the changes planned to come to DDO in the near future is expected to open either this evening or on Thursday 10/5/2017. In the meantime, despite the frustrating delays, here are the full release notes for this first preview of U36 Patch 3. Important to note: This preview does not contain all of the features that are planned for U36 Patch 3.


Reincarnation: Improvements have been made to the reincarnation system to prevent loss of items while undergoing the process!

Changes have been made to the way a player's inventory and bank are moved to the True Reincarnation cache during reincarnation. The process occurs upon first login after a reincarnation. The process is now more resilient against disconnects that occur at this time.
If there is a problem and it detects that items were lost, a message will be displayed in the chat window at login.
Customer service now has additional tools to identify and restore items lost in this process (These tools will not be able to assist issues encountered before this patch goes live).


Ravenloft Expansion Features: Some of the features from the upcoming Ravenloft expansion are available for early preview!

Race: Aasimar: A new heroic Eberron race which will be free to VIPs and available in all Ravenloft Expansion bundles and, at a later date, in the DDO store.

Base Traits:

+ 1 Charisma
+ 1 Wisdom
Racial Lay On Hands (Healing Hands). Start with one charge per rest, gain more in tree. Can only be used while your Bond Feat is active. 10+Character Level * WIS Mod = HP gained.
+2 Racial Bonus to Heal, Listen, and Spot.
+5 Resistance to Cold, Acid, and Electricity.
Choose one Bond Feat. These are toggled on to get their bonuses, have visual effects, are mutually exclusive with Warlock Pacts. (Bear in mind that these ability scores don't apply to Feat Prereqs or anything.)

Protector

+1 Charisma
+1 to Will Saving Throws

Fallen

+1 to Strength
+1 to Reflex Saving Throws



Racial Enhancement Tree:

Core Abilities

Core 1: +1 use of Healing Hands per rest.
Core 2: WIS/CHA/STR
Core 3: +2 more uses of Healing Hands per rest.

Protector Bond now grants +2% Dodge.
Fallen Bond now grants +2 to Tactics DCs.

Core 4: WIS/CHA/STR
Core 5: +3 more uses of Healing Hands per rest. You recharge one use of Healing Hands every 3 minutes.

Tier 1:

Fight the Wicked: +1 to hit and damage vs. Evil creatures. (1AP)
Counsel: +1/2/3 to the Heal, Listen, and Spot skills
True Resilience: +1/2/3 to your (Will/Ref Saving Throws) (Choice is gated based on your Bond Feat)
Bold: You overcome fear quickly - fear and shaken effects are removed from you after 12/6/3 seconds.
Improved Recovery: +20 Healing Amplification

Tier 2:

Fight the Wicked: +1 to hit and damage vs. Evil creatures.
Arcanum: +25/+50/+100 spell points and +1/+2/+3 spell penetration.
Divine Purpose: Gain an active ability with one charge per rest. Must have your Bond Feat active to use.

Protector: You sprout ethereal wings, the marks of the Protector. For one minute, you gain a Determination Bonus to Healing Amplification and Positive Spell Power equal to your Character Level.
Fallen: You sprout weird wings of a Fallen Aasimar. For one minute, you gain +2 Primal bonus to Strength and +5% Primal bonus to Doublestrike.

Divine Resolve: +1/2/3 (CHA/STR, gated by your Bond Feat) while your Divine Purpose is active.

Tier 3:

Fight the Wicked: +1 to hit and damage vs. Evil creatures.
Divine Charge: +1/2/3 Purpose Charges
Improved Recovery: +20 Healing Amplification

Tier 4:

Celestial Tutelage: Choose one of the following.

Tower Shield Proficiency
Bastard Sword Proficiency
Magical Training
Quick Draw

Divine Form: Toggle: 30sp, toggles off on rest. Must have your Bond Feat active to use. Mutually exclusive with Form feats (PM, Druid, etc).
Protector: You gain +3 stacking bonus to all Saving Throws, 10% Competence Bonus to Max HP, and a +10 Determination Bonus to PRR and MRR.
Fallen: You gain immunity to Fear, a +10 Determination bonus to Melee Power, and your melee weapon attacks add a stack of Vulnerability once per second.
Improved Recovery: +20 Healing Amplification





Universal Enhancement Tree: Vistani Knife Fighter: A new universal enhancement tree which will be available in select (but not all) Ravenloft Expansion bundles and, at a later date, in the DDO store, as well as able to be earned from Favor attainable in Ravenloft content on a per character basis.

Core Abilities

Core 1: Knife Expertise You gain +1 to hit and damage with daggers and throwing daggers.
Core 2: Knife Juggler You gain +5% to speed with throwing daggers. You gain the benefits of the Deflect Arrows feat, knocking aside one incoming projectile that would have struck you every 6 seconds.
Core 3: Quick Reflexes You gain Quickdraw as a bonus feat. You gain +5% Doublestrike (main and off hand), and Doubleshot.
Core 4: Plays With Knives You gain a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Threat Range and +1 to Critical Damage Multiplier with daggers and throwing daggers.
Core 5: Vistani Fortune Passive: You gain +10 Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating. Activate to gain one random Vistani fortune. Cooldown 60 seconds.

Coins: You gain 10% Doublestrike and 10% Doubleshot for 60 seconds.
Glyphs: You gain 10 Physical Resistance Rating and 20 Magical Resistance Rating for 60 seconds.
Stars: You gain +2 to all ability scores for 60 seconds.
Swords: You gain 15 Melee Power and Ranged Power for 60 seconds.

Core 6: Blade Master You gain +2 to all ability scores. You gain +5% attack speed one handed weapons and throwing weapons. You gain 20 Melee Power and 20 Ranged Power.

Tier One

Vistani Knife Training: When using a dagger in each hand, you now fight in melee using the Vistani style, with both daggers held down point down. You gain +1 to hit and damage with daggers and throwing daggers.
Undead Hunter: You resist evil influences particularly well, gaining a +2 bonus to saves against spells and effects produced by evil creatures. Undead are automatically consider a Favored Enemy for you.
Mist Stalker I: You gain +25% negative energy absorption. You gain +3 Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating.
Acrobatic: +1/2/3 Balance, Jump, and Tumble. Rank 3: +1 to Reflex Saving Throws.
Rapid Attack: You gain both of the following:

Rapid Slash: Requires dagger. Melee Attack: Deals +3(W) damage. You gain a 20% Morale bonus to (main hand) doublestrike for 10 seconds. Cooldown: 10 seconds.
Rapid Throw: Requires throwing knife. Missile Attack: Deals +3(W) damage. You gain a 20% Morale bonus to doubleshot for 10 seconds. Cooldown: 10 seconds. This puts Ten Thousand Stars and Manyshot on a 10 second cooldown.


Tier Two

Vistani Knife Training: You gain +1 to hit and +2 damage with daggers and throwing daggers.
Blooded Blades: When you score a Vorpal hit with a dagger or throwing knife you add a stack of Blood of Vengeance to your opponent.

Blood of Vengeance: You deal 1d6 damage per two seconds for 30 seconds. This damage scales with 200% Melee Power. This stacks up to 10 times, with news stacks refreshing the duration.

Mist Stalker II: You gain +2 to Will saving throws. You gain +3 Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating.
Weapon Versatility: Your melee and missile attacks use the higher of Melee Power or Ranged Power.
Haste Boost: Activate to gain a 10%/20%/30% Action Boost bonus to attack speed for 20 seconds. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)

Tier Three

Vistani Knife Training: You gain +1 to hit and damage with daggers and throwing knives.
Fan of Knives: On activation: You throw a hail of throwing knives in a cone in front of you. Enemies caught in the cone take 5 to 8 per character level of damage and take 1 stack of Blood of Vengeance. This damage scales with 100% Ranged Power. Cooldown: 15 seconds
Mist Stalker III: You are immune to Fear effects. You gain +3 Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating.
Deadly Blades: Your daggers and throwing daggers do an additional +1(W) of damage.
Gifted: Choose one:

+1 Strength
+1 Dexterity
+1 Constitution
+1 Intelligence
+1 Wisdom
+1 Charisma


Tier Four

Vistani Knife Training: You gain +1 to hit and +2 damage with daggers and throwing knives.
Celerity: You gain +5% Doublestrike (main and off hand), and Doubleshot.
Mist Stalker IV: You gain immunity to Energy Drain. You gain +6 Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating.
Choose One:

Single Dagger: When fighting single weapon style with a dagger: +20 Melee Power
Double Daggers: When fighting with a dagger in each hand: +20% stacking chance to make off-hand attacks when dual wielding weapons.

Gifted: Choose one:

+1 Strength
+1 Dexterity
+1 Constitution
+1 Intelligence
+1 Wisdom
+1 Charisma


Tier Five

Vistani Knife Training: You gain +3 to hit and damage with daggers and throwing knives.
Whirling Blades: Requires throwing knife. Missile Attack: +5(W) damage. Your throwing knife gains 100 doubleshot for 15 seconds. Cooldown one minute. (Shares cooldown with 10K Stars.)
Mist Stalker V: Activate to gain +20% Dodge and Maximum Dodge, +30 PRR, and +30 MRR for 20 seconds. Cooldown: 60 seconds.
Blessed Blades: You gain both of the following:

Blessed Blades: Requires dagger. Melee attack. +5(W) damage, plus one stack of Blood of Vengeance. Your equipped daggers gain a +10 Enhancement bonus for 10 seconds. They also gain Silver, Good, and Ghost Touch. 10 second cooldown.
Blessed Knives: Requires throwing knife. Missile attack. +5(W) damage, plus one stack of Blood of Vengeance. Your throwing knife gains a +10 Enhancement bonus for 10 seconds. It also gains Silver, Good, and Ghost touch. 10 second cooldown.

Vendetta: Activate to gain a unique +1 Critical Threat Range and +1 to Critical damage multiplier to your equipped daggers or throwing knive for 15 seconds. 60 second cooldown.




Permanent Gold Seal Hirelings: Scarecrow: Two new Permanent Gold Seal Hirelings which will be available in select (but not all) Ravenloft Expansion bundles.

Scarecrow Hirelings will have variants at the following levels:

Level 10
Level 30




New Cosmetics: A variety of cosmetic outfits, helms, pets, and weapon aura's which will be available in select (but not all) Ravenloft Expansion bundles.

The following cosmetic outfits are available for preview:

Barovian Noble
Vampire Hunter

The following cosmetic outfits are available for preview:

Barovian Noble
Vampire Hunter

The following cosmetic pets are available for preview:

Black Cat
Raven



Bug Fixes:

Attack animations for Dragonborn wielding runearms are no longer stiff and awkward when wielding melee weapons or crossbows.
Unyielding Sentinel's Vigor of Battle now gives only the 20 Healing Amplification its text indicates that it should.

Known Issues:

Aasimar:

The Bond specific bonuses in the third core of the Aasimar tree are not yet ever granted.
The Fallen Divine Form in tier 4 of the Aasimar tree does not yet grant Fear Immunity.
We know that Aasimar has a couple animation hitches (mostly related to attacking while moving and then returning to idle) but would still love reports of all animation issues you see.
Beards on Aasimar Males are not all directly attached to their faces.
Not all Aasimar character generation cosmetic options are currently hooked up. (Notably some eyes are blank and most mouths are the same)
Healing Hands and Divine Purpose currently never gain more than 1 charge.
Toggling "Ascendant Bond" on can sometimes cause your wings to sprout and remain as long as the toggle remains active.
Zoning can cause both "Bond" and "Ascendant Bond" buffs to be removed requiring you to toggle off and on again to get the benefits back.

Vistani Knife Fighter:

The Enhancement Tree symbol currently matches the Harper Agent Enhancement Tree symbol.
Vistani Knife Training I text does not state that it grants +1 to hit and damage with Throwing Knives (but it does).
Mist Stalker I does not grant +25% Negative Absorption.
Mist Stalker IV text states that it grants +3 PRR and MRR.

Other:

The Scarecrow Hirelings have not been statted. They are currently level 1 and level 17 Owlbear Fighters.

[Aelonwy]

Ravenloft Expansion Features: Some of the features from the upcoming Ravenloft expansion are available for early preview!

Race: Aasimar: A new heroic Eberron race which will be free to VIPs and available in all Ravenloft Expansion bundles and, at a later date, in the DDO store.

New Cosmetics: A variety of cosmetic outfits, helms, pets, and weapon aura's which will be available in select (but not all) Ravenloft Expansion bundles.

The following cosmetic outfits are available for preview:

Barovian Noble
Vampire Hunter

The following cosmetic outfits are available for preview:

Barovian Noble
Vampire Hunter

The following cosmetic pets are available for preview:

Black Cat
Raven



OMG OMG!!! can we get some screen shots posted for those of us that can't get Lammania to work? (I haven't been able to get Lammania to load since the preview of E3BC) Please, pretty please with bacon.

[nayozz]

hi cocomajobo, i do not like 1 thing about the aasimar...

in neverwinter nights 2 there is the aasimar race, and has got +2 wisdom +2 charisma

i do not like to have a race with +1 baseline wisdom and +1 baseline charisma...

what about this change i propose:

aasimar gets +2 baseline wisdom (and past life racial wisdom)

the bond perk gives either +2 strength or +2 charisma...

this way you can have a good aasimar with +2 wis +2 cha , and a fallen aasimar with +2 wis +2 str

this would make much more sense...

[Dopey_Power]

Will Aasimar lay on hands benefit from endless lay on hands from Unyielding Sentinel?

[Annex]

OMG OMG!!! can we get some screen shots posted for those of us that can't get Lammania to work? (I haven't been able to get Lammania to load since the preview of E3BC) Please, pretty please with bacon.

I downloaded Lammania yesterday. If time allows and it the client works I intend to take screen shots, post them to the DDO Wiki, and link them here. :D

Edit: Also, I am a vegetarian. :)

[unbongwah]

As expected, Vistani has obvious synergies with Assassin and Swashbuckler, depending on how the bonuses stack. I could also see making a fun TWF Blood of Vol build. Rapid Slash / Throw might actually be too powerful for tier-1 ability; i.e., I would expect it to be nerfed or moved higher in the tree. On the flip side, I think the melee bonuses in the tier-5 are weaker than tier-4 Single / Double Daggers. Little surprised / disappointed not to see any stat substitution options, meaning Vistani builds are STR-based unless they have access to other class abilities (or Harper); i.e., I would like to see "Different Tack but just for daggers" somewhere.

I have my doubts this is enough to make throwing daggers competitive with shurimonk builds - very hard to beat those extra procs from Shuriken Expertise + Adv Ninja Training - but extra options is not a bad thing.

[JoeShmo]

Did I miss something or does neither the Vistani tree, nor the Aasimar tree grant WIS to hit and damage? Is this tree coming at a later point in time?

[Cocomajobo]

Did I miss something or does neither the Vistani tree, nor the Aasimar tree grant WIS to hit and damage? Is this tree coming at a later point in time?

Neither of those trees are currently intended to have Wisdom to Hit and Damage. That was given to Favored Souls in U36 Patch 2.

[Wizza]

OMG OMG!!! can we get some screen shots posted for those of us that can't get Lammania to work? (I haven't been able to get Lammania to load since the preview of E3BC) Please, pretty please with bacon.

Please give us the screenshots Coco. Pretty please with pizza.

[LevelJ]

Would be cool if we could get an enhancement in the Aasimar tree for some light/positive spell power. I know they seem to be geared towards paladins, but it wouldn't hurt to throw Clerics a bone without making it a copy of Morninglord.

I'm not too keen on the mutual exclusivity clauses (and healing hands working solely with WIS); I understand they are for keeping warlocks from getting stronger, but it basically nullifies the viability of Aasimar for Warlock at all, since the majority of its primary abilities don't even remotely offer benefit to Warlock. If power creep of Racial trees is getting to the point that we have to start nullifying that power from certain classes, perhaps that power should be reduced instead. I figured racial trees were always something of a complementary thing anyway, but more recent races have taken a drastic turn in that regard.

I'll reserve further judgement till after Lama testing.


-Jayron

[JoeShmo]

Neither of those trees are currently intended to have Wisdom to Hit and Damage. That was given to Favored Souls in U36 Patch 2.

Hmm, I guess I must have severely missed something; I could have sworn there was talk about holding off on adding WIS to hit/damage for monks and other classes because a Universal tree would be released at a later time. Interesting that you're more or less limited to having the majority of your levels in Favored Soul to have the option to do so.

[Steelstar]

Would be cool if we could get an enhancement in the Aasimar tree for some light/positive spell power. I know they seem to be geared towards paladins, but it wouldn't hurt to throw Clerics a bone without making it a copy of Morninglord.

I'm not too keen on the mutual exclusivity clauses (and healing hands working solely with WIS); I understand they are for keeping warlocks from getting stronger, but it basically nullifies the viability of Aasimar for Warlock at all, since the majority of its primary abilities don't even remotely offer benefit to Warlock. If power creep of Racial trees is getting to the point that we have to start nullifying that power from certain classes, perhaps that power should be reduced instead. I figured racial trees were always something of a complementary thing anyway, but more recent races have taken a drastic turn in that regard.

I'll reserve further judgement till after Lama testing.


-Jayron

D&D has a long history of mutual exclusivity clauses preventing certain synergies, ranging from class alignment restrictions (can't be a Bard AND a Paladin), to class mechanics (if you want to use Rage, you'll have to give up most forms of Spellcasting). In this particular case, it made sense both on a game-balance level (Aasimar are intended to be more of a boon to CLR/FVS/PAL than WLK) and a Lore level (you can't invoke a Celestial Pact AND a Warlock's Pact at the same time).

Aasimar do not make optimal Warlocks, and that is fine. :)

[Kza]

I Think this is quite nice, not insanely op but really good.

Can any plz plz give us screenies on aasimars and vistani knifers pointing daggers down?

And as already asked for, all new cosmetics!

Hmm time to go to drawingboard and get some new builds going :-)

(Lovely you devs going to beef things to around same powerlevel now, and not just doing last thing extremely better- this is how the game get more options imho, thumbs up!)

[Aelonwy]

I downloaded Lammania yesterday. If time allows and it the client works I intend to take screen shots, post them to the DDO Wiki, and link them here. :D

Edit: Also, I am a vegetarian. :)

Thanks, and *hugs*, did you know fried dulse (type of seaweed) tastes like bacon?

[dragons1ayer74]

D&D has a long history of mutual exclusivity clauses preventing certain synergies, ranging from class alignment restrictions (can't be a Bard AND a Paladin), to class mechanics (if you want to use Rage, you'll have to give up most forms of Spellcasting). In this particular case, it made sense both on a game-balance level (Aasimar are intended to be more of a boon to CLR/FVS/PAL than WLK) and a Lore level (you can't invoke a Celestial Pact AND a Warlock's Pact at the same time).

Aasimar do not make optimal Warlocks, and that is fine. :)

"You must spread reputation around before giving it to Steelstar"

As much as I like warlocks Steelstar is very accurate on this the game has many potential very interesting and powerful build combinations and you could still likely make a powerful Warlock/Aasimar build; you just don't get, nor should you all of the synergies.

[HastyPudding]

I think I'd like some clarification.

Are Aasimar and the vistani knife fighter coming in patch U36.3 or are they just currently being tested on lammania in preparation for the upcoming ravenloft expansion and will be officially released with the expansion? It also sounded almost like you're giving aasimar to VIP's and nobody else until ravenloft comes out, or it could be poor wording. I'm confused.

Also, what are the Aasimar past lives? My guess is +1 heal and +1 wisdom.

[unbongwah]

in neverwinter nights 2 there is the aasimar race, and has got +2 wisdom +2 charisma

i do not like to have a race with +1 baseline wisdom and +1 baseline charisma...
Aasimar are an effective character level (ECL) +1 race, meaning they are considered 1 level higher than an ECL 0 race like humans with the same number of class levels. That was the tradeoff for having extra racial bonuses. DDO doesn't implement ECLs, of course, so when it came to drow (an ECL +2 race), they're considered an inherent 32-pt race due to extra stat bonuses. So clearly the way to implement Aasimar in DDO is to give them +2 CHA +2 WIS upfront, but deduct 2 build pts from them; i.e., Aasimar only get 26/30/32/34 stat pts to spend rather than usual 28/32/34/36.

*sits back, waits for minmaxer hate*

EDIT: of course, they didn't do that to Deep Gnomes, which are an ECL +3 race; instead they tweaked the stat bonuses/penalties to cancel out.

[Aelonwy]

Aasimar are an effective character level (ECL) +1 race, meaning they are considered 1 level higher than an ECL 0 race like humans with the same number of class levels. That was the tradeoff for having extra racial bonuses. DDO doesn't implement ECLs, of course, so when it came to drow (an ECL +2 race), they're considered an inherent 32-pt race due to extra stat bonuses. So clearly the way to implement Aasimar in DDO is to give them +2 CHA +2 WIS upfront, but deduct 2 build pts from them; i.e., Aasimar only get 26/30/32/34 stat pts to spend rather than usual 28/32/34/36.

*sits back, waits for minmaxer hate*

Actually, I'd prefer your implementation to theirs. Oh wait... I'm a casual player. I would still prefer your idea.

[peng]

hi cocomajobo, i do not like 1 thing about the aasimar...

in neverwinter nights 2 there is the aasimar race, and has got +2 wisdom +2 charisma

i do not like to have a race with +1 baseline wisdom and +1 baseline charisma...

what about this change i propose:

aasimar gets +2 baseline wisdom (and past life racial wisdom)

the bond perk gives either +2 strength or +2 charisma...

this way you can have a good aasimar with +2 wis +2 cha , and a fallen aasimar with +2 wis +2 str

this would make much more sense...
I definitely second this. Or keep +1 wis/cha, but make the bond give +1 cha or *wis*. My monk has been waiting ages for a (non-iconic) wis race, and it only gives +1? Every stat but wis has +2 to that stat on at least 2 non-iconic races. Only deep gnome, an iconic race, has a bonus to wisdom. Let wisdom finally have its race. Please.


Neither of those trees are currently intended to have Wisdom to Hit and Damage. That was given to Favored Souls in U36 Patch 2.
It was strongly implied that wis to-hit/dmg would be more widely available. As is, it's available to-hit with bows, or to-hit/dmg on a build that is at least half fvs, and only with your deity's weapon.

[Morroiel]

Aasimar are an effective character level (ECL) +1 race, meaning they are considered 1 level higher than an ECL 0 race like humans with the same number of class levels. That was the tradeoff for having extra racial bonuses. DDO doesn't implement ECLs, of course, so when it came to drow (an ECL +2 race), they're considered an inherent 32-pt race due to extra stat bonuses. So clearly the way to implement Aasimar in DDO is to give them +2 CHA +2 WIS upfront, but deduct 2 build pts from them; i.e., Aasimar only get 26/30/32/34 stat pts to spend rather than usual 28/32/34/36.

*sits back, waits for minmaxer hate*

EDIT: of course, they didn't do that to Deep Gnomes, which are an ECL +3 race; instead they tweaked the stat bonuses/penalties to cancel out.

Dragonborn (not in 3.5 from what i remember) - +2 str, +2 cha, -2 Dex
Drow (EL from 3.5, +2) - +2 dex, +2 int, +2 cha, -2 con

There's no reason for aasimar to have +1, +1 with the pact "feature" bumping str to +1 or cha to +2 (as long as you aren't a warlock).

No other race has +1 to a stat anywhere in the 3.5 official content for races iirc. No other ddo race has +1 to stats instead of an even +2.

You say that they essentially are +2 points ahead of everyone else, but in reality they are bad. I foretell their only use being sorcerers and maybe favored souls if they go charisma based.

They are supposed to be a boon to clerics, etc. but why would I ever take that instead of deep gnome that offers a +2 to my casting stat. O wait its because I need a +1 heart.

[Vish]

Neither of those trees are currently intended to have Wisdom to Hit and Damage. That was given to Favored Souls in U36 Patch 2.

I just can't smoke enough to tell you how excited I am by this.

Waited 2 years for something of the ilk.
And you give it to favored sould.
You know I play a cleric right?
A radiant.
Since that's best in class for healer.

Oh well,
I already got the best bow healer in the game,
And I'm head of the silver flame jokers.
Better stick to longbows, I guess.
Don't want to change the name,
To the jokers of vol...

Ya,
Just saying,
Universal?
What everybody throwing daggers in ravenloft?
How is that universal?
Missed the bus completely,
If you wanted to shore up some things
Coulda been cool monster hunter tree,
With wisdom conversion
You know,
Something missing from the game?

Oh well.
I will test out a vol cleric.
Sometime.

My condolences
Vish

[silinteresting]

Thanks, and *hugs*, did you know fried dulse (type of seaweed) tastes like bacon?

sry i had to chime in here nothing and i mean nothing taste like bacon. bacon is mana from the heavens while seaweed
comes from hell.

your friend sil :)

[Morroiel]

D&D has a long history of mutual exclusivity clauses preventing certain synergies, ranging from class alignment restrictions (can't be a Bard AND a Paladin), to class mechanics (if you want to use Rage, you'll have to give up most forms of Spellcasting). In this particular case, it made sense both on a game-balance level (Aasimar are intended to be more of a boon to CLR/FVS/PAL than WLK) and a Lore level (you can't invoke a Celestial Pact AND a Warlock's Pact at the same time).

Aasimar do not make optimal Warlocks, and that is fine. :)

This is a bunch of lies (or at the very least an attempt at deception) and if I need to I'll find quotes from the WoTC dnd team.

DDO has NEVER had class/race restrictions. DND 3.5, DND 4E, DND 5e -> all DON'T have class/race restrictions. Additionally to further emphasize my point, moving from version 2 to version 3 (later rebranded as 3.5) - one of the main design changes they implemented was to remove the class/race restrictions from 2nd edition. Note that DDO started in the era of 3.5 and was branded as a 3.5 MMORPG -> which later started to take/borrow mechanics from 4e and 5e (see warlock).

In the history of DDO and DND 3.5+, there has never been a feature of a race that was class dependent. Especially not one as important for race/class combination balance as a stat point.

Additionally odd increments to stats have never been done in the history of DDO or in 3.5.

If you wanted to do it for some other reason, outright say it. Don't pawn this off on DND design fundamentals when it clearly isn't the case!

[HastyPudding]

This is a bunch of lies (or at the very least an attempt at deception) and if I need to I'll find quotes from the WoTC dnd team.

DDO has NEVER had class/race restrictions. DND 3.5, DND 4E, DND 5e -> all DON'T have class/race restrictions. Additionally to further emphasize my point, moving from version 2 to version 3 (later rebranded as 3.5) - one of the main design changes they implemented was to remove the class/race restrictions from 2nd edition. Note that DDO started in the era of 3.5 and was branded as a 3.5 MMORPG -> which later started to take/borrow mechanics from 4e and 5e (see warlock).

In the history of DDO and DND 3.5+, there has never been a feature of a race that was class dependent. Especially not one as important for race/class combination balance as a stat point.

Additionally odd increments to stats have never been done in the history of DDO or in 3.5.

If you wanted to do it for some other reason, outright say it. Don't pawn this off on DND design fundamentals when it clearly isn't the case!

It's made to give aasimar their paladin/fvs/cleric celestial flavor without giving warlocks a +2 cha race with a free heal. Sorry, dwarves don't make powerful sorcerers. Sorry, half-orcs aren't the best wizards. Sorry, halfings don't make the best barbarians. Sorry, aasimar don't make the best warlocks. Get over it.

[Morroiel]

It's made to give aasimar their paladin/fvs/cleric celestial flavor without giving warlocks a +2 cha race with a free heal. Sorry, dwarves don't make powerful sorcerers. Sorry, half-orcs aren't the best wizards. Sorry, halfings don't make the best barbarians. Sorry, aasimar don't make the best warlocks. Get over it.

That's fine but don't pawn it off as a historical DND mechanic as being the impetus. Come out and say its strictly for balance reasons. Further there's no rationale for having a +1 wis instead of +2 wis.

Also by your logic aasimar's wouldn't make good sorcerers? But aasimar just became the best race for sorcs.

[peng]

Do sources of extra lay on hands (sacred defender, unyielding sentinel) also grant extra healing hand uses, or vice versa? What about regeneration of uses (aasimar tree, sentinel)? Can Light the Dark use healing hand uses?

[PsychoBlonde]

This is a bunch of lies (or at the very least an attempt at deception) and if I need to I'll find quotes from the WoTC dnd team.

DDO has NEVER had class/race restrictions. DND 3.5, DND 4E, DND 5e -> all DON'T have class/race restrictions. Additionally to further emphasize my point, moving from version 2 to version 3 (later rebranded as 3.5) - one of the main design changes they implemented was to remove the class/race restrictions from 2nd edition. Note that DDO started in the era of 3.5 and was branded as a 3.5 MMORPG -> which later started to take/borrow mechanics from 4e and 5e (see warlock).

Not saying "you can't play a half-orc paladin" is not the same thing as saying "all half-orc optional abilities synergize perfectly with paladin". You can still PLAY an Aasimar warlock. Some of the ABILITIES involve mutual exclusivity. Maybe read what he actually wrote next time instead of making something up and claiming it was a "bunch of lies".

[PsychoBlonde]

That's fine but don't pawn it off as a historical DND mechanic as being the impetus. Come out and say its strictly for balance reasons. Further there's no rationale for having a +1 wis instead of +2 wis.

Also by your logic aasimar's wouldn't make good sorcerers? But aasimar just became the best race for sorcs.

He didn't say that a historical DND mechanic was "the impetus", just that there are plenty other examples of OTHER similar mechanics of mutual exclusivity in the system--both historically, AND in DDO.

The rationale for them getting +1 stats is that they're nominally an overpowered race in their original version--they get TOO MANY stat points and abilities, so normally you have to lose a level to play them (a mechanism that is non-functional in DDO). If you want +2's, they have to get a -2 somewhere to compensate. So you can either get two bonus stats at +1 and NO negatives, or eat a negative somewhere.

And "odd numbers make me gitchy" is not a rationale for complaining about it.

[Renvar]

Sev explicitly stated that there would be a wis to hit and damage tree in the future. This was supposed to be it.

I never saw a dev say that wis to hit/damage was coming in the universal tree in ravenloft. I saw it coming in the future. Players seem to have made the leap that it was the very next one released in Ravenloft.

[Renvar]

This is a bunch of lies (or at the very least an attempt at deception) and if I need to I'll find quotes from the WoTC dnd team.


Ok. Give us a quote from the WoTC DnD team that says that alignment restrictions on classes (that prevent a Pally/Bard or a Monk/Bard style multiclass) are not a traditonal part of DnD.

Include in there quotes from WoTC about rage and spellcasting not being mutually exclusive traditionally in DnD.

Thanks! Should have plenty of time to do the research since you aren't playing the game.

[knifefighter]

Choose one Bond Feat. These are toggled on to get their bonuses, have visual effects, are mutually exclusive with Warlock Pacts. (Bear in mind that these ability scores don't apply to Feat Prereqs or anything.)

Protector

+1 Charisma
+1 to Will Saving Throws

Fallen

+1 to Strength
+1 to Reflex Saving Throws





I was very excited for and looking forward to both Aasimar and the expansion, now with this anti warlock nonsense I'm really not looking forward to any of it any more. Warlock is one of my favorite classes to play(I enjoy playing it) and Aasimar was one of my favorite races (From pnp). I am very disappointed, It's Epic Greensteel all over again (nothing even remotely useful for a fey warlock there that you can't already get from random loot or cannith crafting). I expect the rest of the expansion to be just as exclusive against things I enjoy.

[HastyPudding]

That's fine but don't pawn it off as a historical DND mechanic as being the impetus. Come out and say its strictly for balance reasons. Further there's no rationale for having a +1 wis instead of +2 wis.

Also by your logic aasimar's wouldn't make good sorcerers? But aasimar just became the best race for sorcs.

I'm not sold on the +1 wis/cha thing, either, nor does the +1 str 'boon' make much sense, to me. Still, something had to be done rather than just give aasimar +2 wis AND cha: what -2 penalty would they have had, anyway? They're not stupid, or weak, or frail, or sluggish. Dragonborn don't have a -2 dex in PnP but it makes sense due to their bulky frames. Aasimar have no innate weakness like that; they're just celestial humans that are both wise and charismatic. Classic example of PnP/D&D not fitting into the mechanics of DDO. I'd have rather seen aasimar as a +2 wisdom race with with only minor innate racial bonuses (like dragonborn who only get a +30 resistance bonus).

Sorcerers do not have an endless supply of damage, regardless of your 6,000 spell points or how many superior mnemonic elixirs you possess. Warlocks do. Warlocks also have effortless UMD, where sorcerers still need to wait a little bit to get acceptable UMD in heroics. Warlocks have several self-healing abilities or survival enhancements (like, you know, having 2,000 extra HP on a short cooldown for a cost of peanuts); sorcerers only have innate self healing if they're a warforged and then they pay for it with -2~4 charisma and a racial tree that is irrelevant to spellcasting, at best. Warlocks have damage that not only cannot be interrupted, but use damage types that have the absolute least enemies resistant to it (light, chaos, and evil). Sorcerers have to use quicken to have 100% uninterruptible damage and that damage is subject to all kinds of resistances. Sorcerers only have two real advantages over warlocks: a strong early game and high damage in epics which requires a massive feat and gear investment.

Also, the aasimar tree doesn't look geared towards sorcerers: if anything it looks geared towards paladins and warpriests. I think drow and dragonborn would still make better sorcerers than aasimar.

[Iriale]

What? Only +1 wis but +2 cha? Do you hate wis builds, devs? Aasimar should be more about wis than cha. And we have several races with cha bonus. Please, this is ridiculous, why are you so bad with D&D background? This game is based in 3.5, not in 5.0. Why str? Where is str in the original race? But meh at least that has a (sort of) pass.

Puff in your line.

[JoeShmo]

I never saw a dev say that wis to hit/damage was coming in the universal tree in ravenloft. I saw it coming in the future. Players seem to have made the leap that it was the very next one released in Ravenloft.

Yes, but I had asked about this earlier in this thread and Coco responded that the Favored Soul Tree was this tree; so it appears there will NOT be a universal WIS to hit/damage tree.

[Carpone]

What are the racial reincarnation benefits of Aasimar? That's missing from the preview notes.

[HastyPudding]

What are the racial reincarnation benefits of Aasimar? That's missing from the preview notes.

My educated guess is +1 heal for first life and +1 wisdom for the second life.

[Opensezame]

I'm not sold on the +1 wis/cha thing, either, nor does the +1 str 'boon' make much sense, to me. Still, something had to be done rather than just give aasimar +2 wis AND cha: what -2 penalty would they have had, anyway? They're not stupid, or weak, or frail, or sluggish. Dragonborn don't have a -2 dex in PnP but it makes sense due to their bulky frames. Aasimar have no innate weakness like that; they're just celestial humans that are both wise and charismatic. Classic example of PnP/D&D not fitting into the mechanics of DDO. I'd have rather seen aasimar as a +2 wisdom race with with only minor innate racial bonuses (like dragonborn who only get a +30 resistance bonus).

Sorcerers do not have an endless supply of damage, regardless of your 6,000 spell points or how many superior mnemonic elixirs you possess. Warlocks do. Warlocks also have effortless UMD, where sorcerers still need to wait a little bit to get acceptable UMD in heroics. Warlocks have several self-healing abilities or survival enhancements (like, you know, having 2,000 extra HP on a short cooldown for a cost of peanuts); sorcerers only have innate self healing if they're a warforged and then they pay for it with -2~4 charisma and a racial tree that is irrelevant to spellcasting, at best. Warlocks have damage that not only cannot be interrupted, but use damage types that have the absolute least enemies resistant to it (light, chaos, and evil). Sorcerers have to use quicken to have 100% uninterruptible damage and that damage is subject to all kinds of resistances. Sorcerers only have two real advantages over warlocks: a strong early game and high damage in epics which requires a massive feat and gear investment.

Also, the aasimar tree doesn't look geared towards sorcerers: if anything it looks geared towards paladins and warpriests. I think drow and dragonborn would still make better sorcerers than aasimar.

Someone would think you have an issue with warlocks, not the +1 wis/cha....

These days starting stats do not make a difference past early game when you can get +32/33 to a stat just from items alone...

17/18 base stat enchantment on lvl 28 items
+8 insightful
+1 exceptional
+4 quality
+2 profane

+2 more on top of all that if your lucky enough to get a festive stat augment...

Anyway, a similar approach to this in the way that drow are designed would be best. Give them +2 Cha and Wis, -2 dex and 34 pt build instead of 36.

[RandomOldFart]

Aasimar do not make optimal Warlocks, and that is fine. :)
Optimal is one thing, but as I read "mutually exclusive", it would seem that since Aasimar MUST select a Bond, and Warlocks MUST select a Pact. This overtly implies impossibile rather than merely sub-optimal. And as others have said, a race/class impossibility is completely unprecedented since D&D 3.0. Feels like a very bad design choice to me.

In the category of constructive criticism, the issue is that you didn't implement the alignment restrictions for Warlocks (any evil or any chaotic). Aasimar are "usually good" according to the SRD, and the alignment system would have been a great way to preclude certain paradoxical builds. However, there should have been nothing wrong with an Aasimar Chaotic-Good Fey Warlock.

I'm also highly disappointed by the laughable +1s instead of +2s on the stats. There's precedent in how to handle this with Drow and that would have worked just fine.

[Renvar]

Yes, but I had asked about this earlier in this thread and Coco responded that the Favored Soul Tree was this tree; so it appears there will NOT be a universal WIS to hit/damage tree.

No. Actually he didn't. He said:


Neither of those trees are currently intended to have Wisdom to Hit and Damage. That was given to Favored Souls in U36 Patch 2.

You changed that to:

"there will never be a universal tree with wis to hit and damage because FvS is 'that' tree".

This is the same kind of leap/assumption that took:

"Wis to hit and damage will come in a universal tree in the future"

to

"The very next universal tree we do will have wis to hit and damage."

Read what they say vs. what you want them to be saying or are afraid they are saying.

[Renvar]

This overtly implies impossibile rather than merely sub-optimal.

No it doesn't. You implied impossible. Nothing written by the devs does that. Overtly or not.

Hop on Lama and try it out.

[Steelstar]

Optimal is one thing, but as I read "mutually exclusive", it would seem that since Aasimar MUST select a Bond, and Warlocks MUST select a Pact. This overtly implies impossibile rather than merely sub-optimal.

Both Bond Feats and Warlock Pacts are toggles. You can't have both toggles on at the same time, in the same way you can't have Lich Form and Bear Form on at the same time. You can be an Aasimar Warlock, you just can't enable both things simultaneously.

[Carpone]

Disappointed there's no ranged synergy with Vistani Knife Fighting and Grace of Battle/Knowledge of Battle for FvS. Blood of Vol doesn't include throwing daggers as a favored weapon.

Also disappointed there's no +2 WIS base option for Aasimar.

Scourge Aasimar are also absent, and not included in the known issues list.

[Steelstar]

Scourge Aasimar are also absent, and not included in the known issues list.

This is intentional. :) Stay tuned.

[Cordovan]

Please don't use abusive language against developers. It's fine to disagree with the idea of class restrictions being a part of D&D history, but to accuse someone of lying deliberately is not acceptable. Additionally, Steelstar didn't say that class/race restrictions were part of D&D, so I'm not sure where that's coming from. He did say that exclusivity involving various synergies is part of D&D, which is true. Additionally, Aasimar are not restricted from being Warlocks, although not all abilities will synergize, and that may impact your decision on whether to play that particular combination.

I am not aware of us committing to a universal Wisdom-to-Damage enhancement tree. If we did indicate that, then I apologize. I am not aware of a universal Wisdom-to-Damage tree in the works.

[Opensezame]

This is intentional. :) Stay tuned.

There's your iconic version right there

[RandomOldFart]

Both Bond Feats and Warlock Pacts are toggles. You can't have both toggles on at the same time, in the same way you can't have Lich Form and Bear Form on at the same time. You can be an Aasimar Warlock, you just can't enable both things simultaneously.
Well that take a little salt out of the wound. Thanks for the clarification.

[Xaxx]

Well lets see, the first look at whats intended for ravenloft and I'm sorry but its a miss from the gate.

I know the devs realize there are alot of former players who are going to look in on the expansion and debate about poppin back in for a new setting. This time around (unlike the last two expansions) I'm one of them, havent been around much in the last two or so years, stopped sub 6 months ago for first time in a few years and I have to say that I loved ravenloft and dark sun back in my dnd days (2nd edition)...

All that said, sorry guys this time you have to EARN my money... theres no oh look its ravenloft take my money.... nope sorry guys way to much bs and half done **** still laying around in the ruins of this game. You guys MUST bring your A game this time around and you and everyone here know this is your last hurrah, if this fails the game dies.

You have alot of work ahead of you if this is the first part of your major offerings. You gotta offer major with it becaus sorry you first two expansions really werent expansion... an expansion is not two or 3 packs and some cosmetics, and this race and tree are NOT anywhere near enough to put on top of your skimpy content *expansion* to call it an expansion. Wasnt the fist two time s either, but your numbers are a whole lot worse than the last two times.

Bring the A game or dont bother devs. This is your normal C to F try. C to F wont pry open the wallets of me and many former players...

[Wizza]

So, we have the full enhancements in the release notes. Any developer wants to post screenshots of the cosmetics yet?

[Cordovan]

So, we have the full enhancements in the release notes. Any developer wants to post screenshots of the cosmetics yet?

We want people to actually log in and check things out, and posting up the pics of all the cool stuff prior tends to work against that goal.

[Wizza]

We want people to actually log in and check things out, and posting up the pics of all the cool stuff prior tends to work against that goal.

...But you described literally everything else in the release notes. We pay for those cosmetics.

[Opensezame]

We want people to actually log in and check things out, and posting up the pics of all the cool stuff prior tends to work against that goal.

Is Lam even live yet?

[Hobgoblin]

there is a typo in the enchantments.


Undead Hunter: You resist evil influences particularly well, gaining a +2 bonus to saves against spells and effects produced by evil creatures. Undead are automatically consider a Favored Enemy for you.

this should be considered

again not being a grammar police, but trying to fix it before it goes live

and hoping its just a typo in the layout for us to look at, not in the code itself.

[unbongwah]

Also there's a certain irony to Vistani getting Undead Hunter, considering two of the most common undead types (skeletons and zombies) resist piercing damage - which, ya know, daggers. :rolleyes:

[Arkat]

I am not aware of a universal Wisdom-to-Damage tree in the works.

It was hoped for because of Monk's low damage output with handwraps. Many monk players, including me, have become disillusioned with their handwrap builds because Monks are the most MAD (Multiple Attribute Dependent) of all classes followed somewhat closely by Paladins.

When PDKs got to use Charisma, instead of Strength, as their main attack and damage stat, it was only natural for Monk players, like myself, to hope that we'd get an enhancement option to do likewise with our Wisdoms. Paladin players got a break from MAD so why not us Monks? Indeed, one of the Devs (could have been Steelstar on a livestream or "ask the devs"-type segments on DDOCast or another similar show) seemed to suggest that a separate enhancement tree similar to the Harper tree that allowed for WIS to be the primary to hit and damage stat could be a possibility. That may yet still be in the works or maybe just being considered but what's clear is the Vistani tree isn't going to be it.

Having said all that, as a Monk devotee, I am hoping for either a change in one of the Monk enhancement trees (Shin Tao seems to be the most appropriate) or a new, separate tree that would allow Monks to use WIS as their main To Hit and Damage stat.

Thanks.

[Arkat]

There's your iconic version right there

I hope it makes Clerics and Paladins better Undead turners and destroyers. More Light spellpower should also be part of their racial tree if indeed it will be a separate, iconic "race."

[Gratch]

Really like Aasimar. You had me at Arcanum + Hamp (w/o being a helf). Also "Activate wing mode".

I get the "well you're either running your deity ancestor through your spirit or your nether pact through your spirit".

Can't wait to see 'em.

[Dragavon]

Would be cool if we could get an enhancement in the Aasimar tree for some light/positive spell power. I know they seem to be geared towards paladins, but it wouldn't hurt to throw Clerics a bone without making it a copy of Morninglord.

I'm not too keen on the mutual exclusivity clauses (and healing hands working solely with WIS); I understand they are for keeping warlocks from getting stronger, but it basically nullifies the viability of Aasimar for Warlock at all, since the majority of its primary abilities don't even remotely offer benefit to Warlock. If power creep of Racial trees is getting to the point that we have to start nullifying that power from certain classes, perhaps that power should be reduced instead. I figured racial trees were always something of a complementary thing anyway, but more recent races have taken a drastic turn in that regard.

I'll reserve further judgement till after Lama testing.


-Jayron

May I just ask, do you actually understand how a warlock gets his power?

Do you understand what an aasimar is?

It is obvious that an aasimar should not be a warlock at all. In the same way a paladin can not do evil things.

[Draculetta]

We want people to actually log in and check things out, and posting up the pics of all the cool stuff prior tends to work against that goal.

So does this mean, you are also not wanting videos/posts done :) I had plans for DDO Players... :)

[EllisDee37]

I'm disappointed that the dev team decided against wisdom to hit and damage from enhancements, but even more disappointed that they didn't tell us during the divine pass. Instead, we the players were all "yeah this requires 10 favored soul levels, but don't worry, we still have a universal enhancement tree coming for it for normal builds." Turns out that no, no we didn't, and the devs clearly knew that during the divine pass.

I feel deceived.

[LevelJ]

D&D has a long history of mutual exclusivity clauses preventing certain synergies, ranging from class alignment restrictions (can't be a Bard AND a Paladin), to class mechanics (if you want to use Rage, you'll have to give up most forms of Spellcasting). In this particular case, it made sense both on a game-balance level (Aasimar are intended to be more of a boon to CLR/FVS/PAL than WLK) and a Lore level (you can't invoke a Celestial Pact AND a Warlock's Pact at the same time).

Aasimar do not make optimal Warlocks, and that is fine. :)

Okay, fair point. Admittedly with my lack of D&D knowledge I wasn't aware of the pact clause in the lore, so thanks for explaining that one. =)


-Jayron

[unbongwah]

This is why it's a bad idea for devs to gossip too much about upcoming changes that are not yet set in stone*. Because invariably, "speculated about the possibility of adding feature X someday" - no matter how tentatively expressed nor how many disclaimers put on it - eventually morphs into "OMG WE WERE PROMISED FEATURE X AND IT'S NOT HERE YOU LIED TO US!!1!" Aka the Molyneaux Effect. :rolleyes:

The flip side to that is: don't take anything you read on the forums as gospel until it shows up on Lamannia at least.

*HA! See what I did there?

[Hipparan]

Aasimar looks fun! I'm thinking maybe Bard has some nice synergies. Along the lines of toggles and forms, I'm guessing the Aasimar toggle doesn't work with Wild-Shape or Undead forms?

[EllisDee37]

This is why it's a bad idea for devs to gossip too much about upcoming changes that are not yet set in stone*. Because invariably, "speculated about the possibility of adding feature X someday" - no matter how tentatively expressed nor how many disclaimers put on it - eventually morphs into "OMG WE WERE PROMISED FEATURE X AND IT'S NOT HERE YOU LIED TO US!!1!" Aka the Molyneaux Effect. :rolleyes:

The flip side to that is: don't take anything you read on the forums as gospel until it shows up on Lamannia at least.

*HA! See what I did there?

Hypothetical: During the divine pass, people voice concerns that requiring 10 favored soul levels and only working with favored weapons seems overly restrictive for getting wisdom for attack and damage.

Other people respond that this is just a niche favored soul thing; other builds will get it in a universal tree like harper gives int for attack and damage.

Are you saying those other people shouldn't have responded that way, and we all should have just pretended that we never heard the original dev statements?

[Renvar]

This is why it's a bad idea for devs to gossip too much about upcoming changes that are not yet set in stone*.

Or Players need to realize that not everything the devs say is written in stone.

[EllisDee37]

Or Players need to realize that not everything the devs say is written in stone.I'm saying the devs should clarify their previous statements when they are set in stone no longer happening.

During the original cannith crafting beta, they should have explicitly said "We decided against pulling effects off one item and putting them on another." And during the divine pass, they should have explicitly said "This wisdom for attack and damage ability of favored souls takes the place of the proposed universal enhancement tree option."

[unbongwah]

But it was never a "proposed" change, unless your definition of a proposal is "a dev makes an offhand comment in a DDOCast a year ago about maybe doing this." THAT is my point: it's a mistake to believe rumors, but devs should also do a better job of preventing loose lips from starting rumors in the first place (IMO).

[Morroiel]

I guess I'll leave it at this since I'm being censored: this update fails to meet any of the design goals or promises that are expected of a paid expansion, such as ravenloft; further, this update's lack of adhering to consistent mechanics laid out in ddo's early history and in canon 3.5 and 5e dnd material, leads me to the singular desire of never spending a single penny on the game again. Additionally, now that they've supposedly fixed the tr issue; SSG is continuing the trend of not giving compensation to players for their lost time and money (for recent references I bid you to look at the winter of lag back in 2016 Feb-May wherein no compensation was given when the servers were unplayable).

Hopefully that sums up my dispensation.

[SerPounce]

Neither of those trees are currently intended to have Wisdom to Hit and Damage. That was given to Favored Souls in U36 Patch 2.

This is going to get a lot of hate, but I like that not all stat-to-dmg abilities are gated the same way and some are rarer than others. Every stat shouldn't be an option for hit/dmg for every build. What makes character building so interesting is both the options and the limitations.

[EllisDee37]

But it was never a "proposed" change, unless your definition of a proposal is "a dev makes an offhand comment in a DDOCast a year ago about maybe doing this." THAT is my point: it's a mistake to believe rumors, but devs should also do a better job of preventing loose lips from starting rumors in the first place (IMO).They don't need to prevent rumors in the first place. They need to clarify when those rumors have been invalidated but a new direction they're firmly set on taking.

I'm saying nothing should have been done differently, from either the players or the devs, until during the divine pass. Players actually brought up the universal tree in the thread discussing the favored soul feats. I'm saying the one change from anybody that should have happened is that a dev should have directly responded to that quote to say that they went in a different direction, and the favored soul restrictive option is the way they decided to go for wisdom as a melee stat.

[SerPounce]

I'm saying the devs should clarify their previous statements when they are set in stone no longer happening.

During the original cannith crafting beta, they should have explicitly said "We decided against pulling effects off one item and putting them on another." And during the divine pass, they should have explicitly said "This wisdom for attack and damage ability of favored souls takes the place of the proposed universal enhancement tree option."

That's simple to write, but actually keeping track of everything a dev has said in every venue and correcting any changes based on the every changing long term plans would be impractical. If they were to implement such a policy the only way to stick to it would be to strictly limit what gets said in the first place. i.e. limited player interaction and communication, something people are always saying they want more of.

[EllisDee37]

That's simple to write, but actually keeping track of everything a dev has said in every venue and correcting any changes based on the every changing long term plans would be impractical. If they were to implement such a policy the only way to stick to it would be to strictly limit what gets said in the first place. i.e. limited player interaction and communication, something people are always saying they want more of.They don't need to do that, or anything. They just need to read and then respond to player posts in official discussion threads.

Like, for example, this post, which was post 27 in the official discussion thread for the favored soul changes, and then followed up with an "In case you missed it" in post 73. Not exactly buried or hard to find.


3) Previously (eg here (https://youtu.be/tnWcV9PrBcw?list=PLzPthfI5h08_aUwWtrFLs7lGw0jJtk86 s&t=1763)) you indicated that unusual abilities to atk & dmg such as wisdom would be more appropriate in universal trees where everybody can get them, but where they should have to pay a premium price to get it. However above you are proposing giving it for free to all favored souls, but noone else. So has the previous thinking changed?


Gargoyle's link goes directly to Severlin saying the following on a live stream:


Cordovan: Oh, a question for you Sev that I know you can answer: Why no wisdom to hit and damage for the monk?

Severlin: Yeah we're working on a...we want to move unusual to-hit and damage effects like that to races and universal trees, rather than having them in base classes. So the base classes are limited to conceptually dex, because weapon finesse has always been a part of core 3.5, and obviously strength, and then the other ones will tend to move to more exotic places rather than base classes. We kind of want people to have to pay for...we want stat diversity, and if people really want to streamline in one stat we want them to have to sort of go outside to get that. So yeah, that's my fault, so don't yell at Steelstar for that.

Cordovan: On the plus though one we do get that it's going to be be available to far more classes because of it.

Severlin: Yes.

Cordovan: Alright I have switched over to a cleric, and the reason being is we are adding some new cleric feats...

I'm saying Severlin should have responded to this, because the direction they decided to go was the direct polar opposite of what he himself said on this livestream. Which was helpfully linked for him directly, no searching or keeping track of stuff required.

[thomascoolone64]

This is going to get a lot of hate, but I like that not all stat-to-dmg abilities are gated the same way and some are rarer than others. Every stat shouldn't be an option for hit/dmg for every build. What makes character building so interesting is both the options and the limitations.

Any ETA?

[HuneyMunster]

We want people to actually log in and check things out, and posting up the pics of all the cool stuff prior tends to work against that goal.

Is Lama down for the night or will be back up?

Unable to connect to patch my client and also seems server are showing as offline.

[thomascoolone64]

Is Lama down for the night or will be back up?

Unable to connect to patch my client and also seems server are showing as offline.

No it hasnt been up at all there still wanting to open it...

[Roland_D'Arabel]

How is an enhancement tree specific to melee dagger and throwing dagger considered a universal tree? Is it just me or does this not compute for others too?

Arguably, the Harper tree has enhancements that benefit spell casters, melee, ranged, tanks, glass cannons, nukers, healers... about the only character genre that doesn't benefit much if at all would be DC casters.

So what is so special about this tree to label it universal.

It could be called a weapon users tree... but to get the most benefit it pigeon holes a player in to daggers or throwing daggers.... so really, it's an assassin/fighter tree? Someone enlighten me :D

[Cordovan]

How is an enhancement tree specific to melee dagger and throwing dagger considered a universal tree? Is it just me or does this not compute for others too?

Arguably, the Harper tree has enhancements that benefit spell casters, melee, ranged, tanks, glass cannons, nukers, healers... about the only character genre that doesn't benefit much if at all would be DC casters.

So what is so special about this tree to label it universal.

It could be called a weapon users tree... but to get the most benefit it pigeon holes a player in to daggers or throwing daggers.... so really, it's an assassin/fighter tree? Someone enlighten me :D

It's universal in that points can be spent into it without having to be a certain class or race.

[thomascoolone64]

How is an enhancement tree specific to melee dagger and throwing dagger considered a universal tree? Is it just me or does this not compute for others too?

Arguably, the Harper tree has enhancements that benefit spell casters, melee, ranged, tanks, glass cannons, nukers, healers... about the only character genre that doesn't benefit much if at all would be DC casters.

So what is so special about this tree to label it universal.

It could be called a weapon users tree... but to get the most benefit it pigeon holes a player in to daggers or throwing daggers.... so really, it's an assassin/fighter tree? Someone enlighten me :D

Its there as an Option for ALL classes and races... not just these ones you listed.

[Jasparion]

It's universal in that points can be spent into it without having to be a certain class or race.

With 3 named throwing daggers and only 2 of them having epic upgrades the tree can be universally ignored by thrower builds as well.

Did it not occur to you guys that you could have made it really useful by having it work for all thrown weapons - but with a way to stop it making Monk throwers ridiculously powerful instead of just incredibly powerful?

And the melee version will possibly be liked by Rogue Assassins - if they ever return - depending on whether stealth gets fixed and you stop making road blocks in every dungeon where you have to kill all the creatures before doors unlock.

Or maybe melee Rangers will give it a try, if they decide not to go for Harper and KTA.

At least there are quite a few nice melee daggers in the game.

[Roland_D'Arabel]

It's universal in that points can be spent into it without having to be a certain class or race.

Yes, technically I get that. I'm not that dense :)

Other than that, it's not universally useful is it?

[Roland_D'Arabel]

Its there as an Option for ALL classes and races... not just these ones you listed.

Sure it's an option.... just not a universally useful one.

I could take it or leave it. At this point whatever SSG does to the game, I find my own entertainment and just don't let myself be disappointed by broken expectations.

It's an awful lot of effort though for something that is arguably only useful to limited number of playstyles.

I guess Harper set the bar pretty high, but since it is a premium purchase item, I figured it would be similarly useful as the Harper tree.

[Gratch]

I'm saying Severlin should have responded to this, because the direction they decided to go was the direct polar opposite of what he himself said on this livestream. Which was helpfully linked for him directly, no searching or keeping track of stuff required.

They have mentioned having multiple "universal tree" ideas on Lama dev chat before - there's not just the 2. Could have been they were able to secure animator's time from SSG resource pool to do the knives down animation and went with that tree for Ravenloft over a universal tree where wis to toHit/Damage would make sense. Holding devs to stuff they said off hand streaming often results with devs not responding more and more. Not a good direction to push them.

Kate Paiz promised me Time Stop 9 years ago... still waiting. Why hasn't she responded?

Personally I want str-based FVS DC casting. MUSCLE-IMPLOSION-FTW.

[Roland_D'Arabel]

Holding devs to stuff they said off hand streaming often results with devs not responding more and more.




Perhaps...

But then SSG shouldn't use ddocast, twitter, and you tube as ways of disseminating information that isn't shared here on the OFFICIAL forums first or ever.

[edrein]

Both Bond Feats and Warlock Pacts are toggles. You can't have both toggles on at the same time, in the same way you can't have Lich Form and Bear Form on at the same time. You can be an Aasimar Warlock, you just can't enable both things simultaneously.

Would this be mutually exclusive with Celestial Spirit? I could actually see a melee warlock working for once on a Fallen Aasimar if both toggles can be ran at the same time. But I know that Celestial Spirit is most likely typed as a form like PM toggles or animal shapes.

[Gratch]

Perhaps...

But then SSG shouldn't use ddocast, twitter, and you tube as ways of disseminating information that isn't shared here on the OFFICIAL forums first or ever.

If you want everything they say to be OFFICIAL then they could easily stop using any means except researched and verified forums posts (and probably fewer of them). In most streaming and definitely on that last relevant DDO Cast about DDO's future there is prefacing of "I think this is the shape of the question you're asking but don't hold us to it because resources, tech, bugs, priorities may change the direction". Hopefully the devs see that many players get their info not from the forums but from podcasts, tweets, other web site interviews, etc. - and don't just end those forms of communication even though by nature those communication forms are often less precise.

[CPDK9]

Is it just me or does a big chunk of the Sun Elf tree seem more Aasimar? Just because they are called Sun Elves doesn't mean that they are sun-based casters. I was hoping to have seen changes to the Sun Elf tree along a more arcane line of casting and those sun-based enhancements added to the Aasimar tree. An Aasimar should be the ultimate light cannon or paladin.

I know, I know, I wish for too much.............sigh.

[HuneyMunster]

The biggest problem with Vistani Knife Fighter is that only one subclass that specializes in knives (Dagger and Kukri?) and that is Assassin. No other build with maybe the exception Bard Swashbuckler have any benefit of using daggers that can match other weapon types. Even on an Assassin I would be hard pushed to spend much points outside of its class trees and possibly harper tree.

Vistani should have been more like harper and based on their culture and not just a single weapon style. This would have allowed others to benefit from the enhancements with maybe multi-selectors that would benefit rogues, bards, fighters and arcanes types etc.

Maybe instead of just knifes include light weapons would at least expands its scope. Knives suffer from the problem of poor crit profiles as well as damage die. It seems only reason to take the Tier 5 is maybe on a throwing dagger build as you can't throw Kukris.

[EllisDee37]

I am not aware of us committing to a universal Wisdom-to-Damage enhancement tree. If we did indicate that, then I apologize. I am not aware of a universal Wisdom-to-Damage tree in the works.Have you reviewed the podcast section linked upthread, or at least read the transcript of it I posted?

Do you now understand how and where the playerbase got that impression? Bearing in mind that Severlin was specifically responding to the direct question "Why no wisdom to attack and damage for monks?"

You were literally sitting right there, part of the conversation. It seems disingenuous at best to now say "I'm unaware of us committing to a universal Wisdom-to-damage tree" when your executive producer discussed that exact topic directly to you in a broadcast you made available to the public. Unless maybe you're hanging your hat on the weasel word "committed"?

I feel misled.

[thomascoolone64]

Both Bond Feats and Warlock Pacts are toggles. You can't have both toggles on at the same time, in the same way you can't have Lich Form and Bear Form on at the same time. You can be an Aasimar Warlock, you just can't enable both things simultaneously.

Can you guys give an ETA on lam? I really want to play and test things for you guys... I have faith in you! please! I know you can do it :D

[thomascoolone64]

I just wanna say thank you Devs of the QA Team I am proud of you guys and I love that you work so hard on the game to keep it running for us! I just really cant thank you enough.

[Cocomajobo]

The biggest problem with Vistani Knife Fighter is that only one subclass that specializes in knives (Dagger and Kukri?) and that is Assassin. No other build with maybe the exception Bard Swashbuckler have any benefit of using daggers that can match other weapon types.

The Vistani tree, unlike the Harper tree, is less a complimentary tree and more readily able to provide the backbone of a build. The tree allows anyone to specialize in two otherwise underutilized (and relatively underpowered) weapon types. Currently, on live, you will basically never see a Barbarian, a Paladin, or even a Fighter running around with daggers. Currently on live you will basically never see anyone running around with throwing daggers. The Vistani tree, however, makes it possible to create a perfectly reasonable dagger Barbarian (majoring in Vistani and taking the bits and pieces of generically useful for all weapon types enhancements that they want from the Barbarian trees), or a Blood of Vol Paladin majoring in either Knight of the Chalice or Vistani, or a Ranger swapping between daggers and thrown daggers mixing and matching Vistani with Deepwood stalker. There are plenty of more possibilities that simply do not exist currently on live.

The majority of the options that Vistani grants come only when thought of not as a way to supplement a build you already know about but to use as the basis of a new build. In order to get that sort of backbone type tree it basically has to specialize in something heavily instead of having some bonuses to all play styles like Harper Agent does. Perception wise, I get the confusion over the term "Universal" being applied to a tree that gives bonuses to two niche weapon types but what it accomplishes is being a step in the direction of slowly building out the number of types of builds that are available instead of simply supplementing the ones people are already accustomed to playing and thinking about.

[Cocomajobo]

Can you guys give an ETA on lam? I really want to play and test things for you guys... I have faith in you! please! I know you can do it :D

Lammania has been updated. The build has been approved. We are going through the process of doing a character wipe and setting all the world properties to what they need to be before players are allowed in. We intend to open tonight within the next hour or two. Will put out an announcement when it is open.

[The_Human_Cypher]

Lammania has been updated. The build has been approved. We are going through the process of doing a character wipe and setting all the world properties to what they need to be before players are allowed in. We intend to open tonight within the next hour or two. Will put out an announcement when it is open.

Yay! I am going to make an Aasimar character and test it out.

[thomascoolone64]

Lammania has been updated. The build has been approved. We are going through the process of doing a character wipe and setting all the world properties to what they need to be before players are allowed in. We intend to open tonight within the next hour or two. Will put out an announcement when it is open.

Yes, Sir!

[edrein]

The first thing I'd like to see is for daggers and throwing daggers to be centered weapons in either for first core or the knife training line.

This harkons back to the revamping of Ninja Spy but leaving several of the piercing and slashings weapons from monk's innate proficiency list out of additions for ninja spy and opens quite a few build avenues. This is mostly due to daggers being the only named weapons that actively have poison built into them. There isn't a single poisoned shortsword in the game, despite ninja spy having the exclusive poison vulnerability ability.

Other than that; it's an ok tree? Not a fan of the sort of spam abilities playstyle, but it feels manageable. The T5s are a bit lackluster, I think they could be tweaked a bit more to be static and not so clickie based.

[Renvar]

There isn't a single poisoned shortsword in the game


http://ddowiki.com/page/Envenomed_Blade


But I agree with you. A monk dagger build would be one of the sweet spots to get to. Without having to spend 30+ points in kensai and lock up T5 to do so.

[Shoemaker]

Lammania has been updated. The build has been approved. We are going through the process of doing a character wipe and setting all the world properties to what they need to be before players are allowed in. We intend to open tonight within the next hour or two. Will put out an announcement when it is open.

How long, assuming there are no further major issues, is it planned for Lamannia to be available? Any chance of it staying up through the middle/end of the day Monday? I'd love to incorporate some Lama testing as part of my 36 hour livestream on https://twitch.tv/technical_13 where I'd do some testing and demonstrate how to submit proper bug reports... Thanks if this is doable, if not --- maybe next time Lamannia is up.

[Augon]

The Vistani tree, unlike the Harper tree, is less a complimentary tree and more readily able to provide the backbone of a build. The tree allows anyone to specialize in two otherwise underutilized (and relatively underpowered) weapon types. Currently, on live, you will basically never see a Barbarian, a Paladin, or even a Fighter running around with daggers. Currently on live you will basically never see anyone running around with throwing daggers. The Vistani tree, however, makes it possible to create a perfectly reasonable dagger Barbarian (majoring in Vistani and taking the bits and pieces of generically useful for all weapon types enhancements that they want from the Barbarian trees), or a Blood of Vol Paladin majoring in either Knight of the Chalice or Vistani, or a Ranger swapping between daggers and thrown daggers mixing and matching Vistani with Deepwood stalker. There are plenty of more possibilities that simply do not exist currently on live.

The majority of the options that Vistani grants come only when thought of not as a way to supplement a build you already know about but to use as the basis of a new build. In order to get that sort of backbone type tree it basically has to specialize in something heavily instead of having some bonuses to all play styles like Harper Agent does. Perception wise, I get the confusion over the term "Universal" being applied to a tree that gives bonuses to two niche weapon types but what it accomplishes is being a step in the direction of slowly building out the number of types of builds that are available instead of simply supplementing the ones people are already accustomed to playing and thinking about.

I like the fact that you folks are thinking of ways to encourage variety in builds. And, since I like playing knife wielders (I have a character that DOES in fact carry around throwing daggers), I think this tree will give me something to look at. However, one aspect of this type of tree I do not care for is how there is no variety in the builds that focus on the tree. Every Vistani build will basically be the same - all carrying the same weapons, all playing the same way etc. One thing I like about the Kensai Tree is that early on you pick the direction you are going with the tree (i.e. your Focus Weapon set) and so Kensais have a wide variety of build possibilities. Although this build may a a new build possibility to the overall mix, it only adds a single build possibility. Not saying there is anything wrong with some trees doing it one way and others doing it the other, just that its an aspect of the tree I'm not a fan of.

[zehnvhex]

Kate Paiz promised me Time Stop 9 years ago... still waiting. Why hasn't she responded

Funny you should mention time stop. Steelstar actually talked about them playing around with it in testing and could never get it working in a way that didn't make things awful and impossible to balance/tune properly. So yeah, they actually responded about that.

I imagine a lot of the frustration stems from the fact that this hasn't exactly been a "we forgot about it until now" thing. We've been actively speculating about psionics or with Ravenloft coming we might get some sort of vampirism universal tree. Every time someone has asked on Reddit, the forums and elsewhere that we talk shop it's been "Oh yeah they said that they're going to probably put wis to dmg in a universal tree"

So there's really no excuse when they started working on this X months ago that they could have stepped in on any of those threads/discussions and said "Hey guys, we're pulling a 180 on this idea. We're totally behind putting wis to dmg on specific classes instead. Just not, y'know, clerics, rangers, monks or druids."

[Cocomajobo]

Lamannia is now open!

[The_Human_Cypher]

Lamannia is now open!

Starting the client...

[HastyPudding]

Lamannia is now open!

weeeeeeeee

*runs to find cosmetic outfits*

[Jasparion]

The Vistani tree, unlike the Harper tree, is less a complimentary tree and more readily able to provide the backbone of a build. The tree allows anyone to specialize in two otherwise underutilized (and relatively underpowered) weapon types. Currently, on live, you will basically never see a Barbarian, a Paladin, or even a Fighter running around with daggers. Currently on live you will basically never see anyone running around with throwing daggers. The Vistani tree, however, makes it possible to create a perfectly reasonable dagger Barbarian (majoring in Vistani and taking the bits and pieces of generically useful for all weapon types enhancements that they want from the Barbarian trees), or a Blood of Vol Paladin majoring in either Knight of the Chalice or Vistani, or a Ranger swapping between daggers and thrown daggers mixing and matching Vistani with Deepwood stalker. There are plenty of more possibilities that simply do not exist currently on live.

The majority of the options that Vistani grants come only when thought of not as a way to supplement a build you already know about but to use as the basis of a new build. In order to get that sort of backbone type tree it basically has to specialize in something heavily instead of having some bonuses to all play styles like Harper Agent does. Perception wise, I get the confusion over the term "Universal" being applied to a tree that gives bonuses to two niche weapon types but what it accomplishes is being a step in the direction of slowly building out the number of types of builds that are available instead of simply supplementing the ones people are already accustomed to playing and thinking about.

3 named throwing daggers for Heroic, 2 named throwing daggers for Epic. I cant imagine too many people jumping for joy at the thought of that.

Especially when really their only option is to play a Bard Swashbuckling Thrower.

Is the plan in future to continue releasing highly specialised Enhancement trees to solve broad problems with the game? I imagine it would be a 6 or 8 year plan?

And people stopped playing Assassins because of issues with Stealth and dungeon design, not because the class/enhancements themselves were bad.

[The_Human_Cypher]

The Aasimar race looks very good; basically, an idealized human with some angelic features and effects. The white within white eyes (with an option for regular human eyes) is a nice touch.

I was only able to see the cosmetic outfits and pets because Coco and Kookie's toons were displaying them in the Test Dojo. The Scarecrow hireling was nowhere to be found. Is there any way to put those items in the Lamannia Store or hand them out as bundles?

[PermaBanned]

I have no luck getting Lama running, has anyone tried cosmetic {swords/similar one handers} while having Dagges equipped for the Vistani style?


The Vistani tree, unlike the Harper tree, is less a complimentary tree and more readily able to provide the backbone of a build. The tree allows anyone to specialize in two otherwise underutilized (and relatively underpowered) weapon types. Currently, on live, you will basically never see a Barbarian, a Paladin, or even a Fighter running around with daggers. Currently on live you will basically never see anyone running around with throwing daggers. The Vistani tree, however, makes it possible to create a perfectly reasonable dagger Barbarian (majoring in Vistani and taking the bits and pieces of generically useful for all weapon types enhancements that they want from the Barbarian trees), or a Blood of Vol Paladin majoring in either Knight of the Chalice or Vistani, or a Ranger swapping between daggers and thrown daggers mixing and matching Vistani with Deepwood stalker. There are plenty of more possibilities that simply do not exist currently on live.

The majority of the options that Vistani grants come only when thought of not as a way to supplement a build you already know about but to use as the basis of a new build. In order to get that sort of backbone type tree it basically has to specialize in something heavily instead of having some bonuses to all play styles like Harper Agent does. Perception wise, I get the confusion over the term "Universal" being applied to a tree that gives bonuses to two niche weapon types but what it accomplishes is being a step in the direction of slowly building out the number of types of builds that are available instead of simply supplementing the ones people are already accustomed to playing and thinking about.Sure would be nice if Monks could Center with Daggers... (w/o going Tier 5 Kensai) ;)

[Arkat]

I was only able to see the cosmetic outfits and pets because Coco and Kookie's toons were displaying them in the Test Dojo. The Scarecrow hireling was nowhere to be found. Is there any way to put those items in the Lamannia Store or hand them out as bundles?

I believe the lack of a Scarecrow hireling is a Known Issue in the newest Lamannia release notes. Look towards the bottom.

[edrein]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Envenomed_Blade


But I agree with you. A monk dagger build would be one of the sweet spots to get to. Without having to spend 30+ points in kensai and lock up T5 to do so.

What's sad is the fact I have an upgraded Envenomed Blade sitting in the bank, completely forgot about that one.

[Krelar]

I have no luck getting Lama running, has anyone tried cosmetic {swords/similar one handers} while having Dagges equipped for the Vistani style?

Haven't tried it myself but I saw someone on lammania with what appeared to be 2 spinal taps held backwards.

[The_Human_Cypher]

I believe the lack of a Scarecrow hireling is a Known Issue in the newest Lamannia release notes. Look towards the bottom.

The Release Notes just state that the Scarecrow hireling has placeholder stats, not that the hireling itself is not ready. "The Scarecrow Hirelings have not been statted. They are currently level 1 and level 17 Owlbear Fighters."

[edrein]

Alright, I know it's been said plenty but I want to say it as well. Please drop the +1 charisma and make the racial bonus +2 wisdom. I'd rather we have a single even ability score bump than a split uneven bump. One of the main reasons is due to the fact that the racial Lay on Hands included will use our wisdom score rather than charisma. The charisma synergies within the race for Paladin and FVS already exist in the Protector line, which is good. Let Protector emphasize those synergies and boost them.

Scourge is missing and was seemingly dropped for this first viewing (atleast compared to what was initially considered when I was on the PC, hope that's not breaking the NDA). I'd suggest readding it as the 'wisdom' line and giving it spellcaster benefits.

Overall Protector feels strong and it's clear synergy with paladin is a great emphasis. It'll also be good for Cleric or FVS as well, which is nice.

On the flip side; Fallen is a little lacking. Fallen's Stronger Bond and Divine Purpose is great, they are both thematic and give good functionality for the AP investment. However, when we get to the toggle Divine Form is where the difference in power is vastly made wider. Rather than changing the bonuses on Protector, which I think are great. Could we see Fallen get an additional DPS buff to promote it's place as the 'DPS/melee damage line'? Give us a weapon buff similar to Lighting the Candle from Henshin Mystic, Envenomed Blades for drow/assassins, and Winter Favored/Iced Edges for Shadar-kai and Warchanter respectively. Give us a 1d6 evil damage and a 'cursespewing' type effect on crits for a small evil damage proc. If evil damage is not exactly within your vision for DDO's Fallen Aasimar then perhaps bane damage. Just an unique little DPS buff to give them a proper use for that bit of melee power they get. I simply do not believe that +10 melee power, fear immunity, and 1 stack of vulnerability per hit is equivalent to 10% competence bonus to HP (sadly only stacks with paladin sacred defender intentionally), +3 saves, and +10 PRR/MRR.

Might I also suggest that for Celestial Tutelage that you offer the selection of a damage boost based on your heritage. 1d6 Good for Protector, 1d6 Evil for Fallen, and possibly a 1d6 spell damage proc for Scourge if they are added and are the casting tree? If not outright damage; how about damage bypass here. Aligned damage for weapons would be a great niche spot that fits the theme of Aasimar. Or even Outsider bane on hit. Even minor/low level SLAs could be a great addition for this one. Cure light wounds SLA, Divine Favor SLA, so on and so forth.

Might I also suggest that Divine Charge increase the time of your Divine Purpose by say 30 seconds each rank. That gives a total uptime of 2:30, which will feel like less of a chore on the upkeep realm for those who abhor playing the clickie micromanagement game.

Personally, I will admit I'm against the exclusiveness of Divine Form. I can live with our Bond locking out Warlock Pacts as that does make sense (although I'd love to see a celestial pact now? Eladrin pact with light damage or electric please?) I think while it's a nice idea, there are possibilities for aasimar warlocks, especially of the fallen variety to have fiendish pacts. Though celestial pacts exist and I feel like this sort of makes the inclusion of the Fey Pact as the 'good' option a bit moot at the moment. Back on point with Divine Form, is there any chance this restriction could be removed? A fallen aasimar running in say vampire form would be a neat choice and give a little more utility and life to a currently dead palemaster build. On the flip side; a protection bear druid would make for a neat tank until a full fledged druid pass can occur. Is it possible that you might allow us to try a lamania build with this exclusiveness turned off to test and see how certain builds might work without this restriction? It would certainly give some builds a chance to be revisted and brought back to life by having access to things they normally wouldn't. (Such as a maximum HP 10% for a pure druid.)

[LevelJ]

Not sure if this is part of the known bugs with Aasimar, but the option for maximum metallic skin is hardly noticeable under all but the brightest of lighting conditions. I'm not sure if that is my own visual settings getting in the way or not, but it may need to be looked into.


...also, I agree with everything written above by Edrein.

-Jayron

[PermaBanned]

Haven't tried it myself but I saw someone on lammania with what appeared to be 2 spinal taps held backwards.
Ah giggidy giggidy I hope this to be true! (...and remain so when it goes Live!)

[Silverleafeon]

A new gold seal hireling sounds interesting.
Lvl 10 & 30 are good ranges to place them at.
Hopefully they are small enough to move thru doors (which is a problem with the owlbears).

Scarecrow implies to me a willingness to take extra damage with less risk of death,
which would be interesting. Waiting to see how the whole design player out.


Aasimar race being introduced for the expansion also sounds interesting.
The concept that stands out the quickest is the racial version of Lay on Hands,
and since this is the third race to introduce self healing that is a major bonus.

The questions that I have are how does this Lay on Hands interact with the Pally Lay on Hands,
and how do both of these interact with the Unyielding Sentinel Lay on Hands/Light the Dark.

Can you use Healing Hands alone to power up Light the Dark?
Will Pally/US +X Lay on Hands stack with Healing Hands?
Will Aasimar/US Lay on Hands/Healing Hands regeneration stack with each other multiplicatively or additionally?

These are major question because I have found that Pally Tanks > Fighter Tanks simply due to Light the Dark healing,
as the luxury of a dedicated healer or any sort of healing is quite randomly granted in parties.

Regarding the +1 wis & cha, I rarely lineup Stats perfectly while leveling up, just as I rarely have the perfect equipment group,
so its fine with me.

The other main tank build nowadays involves 12 Warlock, so locking out Warlock Pacts with bond form is fine with me,
as this allows a bit more liberty in creating a self healing race.

Adding to various Form type stances also seems good, overall this will grant more variety and concepts within each race.

Healing amp is always welcome, and I do admire any form of fear immunity/recovery as that is one of the few debuffs that disable a toon long term.



Adding a new form of Fighting style is always a good idea.
Vanguard/Shield fighting actually become viable awhile back and that felt very welcome.

The first question is what set of Fighting Style feats will apply to the Vistani style?
Assuming the Two Weapon Fighting line up, or are you planning on introducing a new feat line just for thus?

Thumbs up for promoting daggers along with throwing daggers for weapon variety.
Assuming more named daggers will be accompanying the expansion and possible one or more future updates afterwards?

My main character owns a dart along with a throwing dagger as part of her weapon systems, so there are fans out there.
Druids by the way are proficient with daggers but not throwing daggers strangely enough.
Is there any possibility of adding throwing dagger proficiency to this tree for any classes that might lack thus?

I do like that this independent tree is designed for a toon to use the tree as a primary tree not a bonus tree,
this will open up other possibilities in the future such as challenge classes, new builds, etc...


Hopefully there will be more independent trees in the future.


Wis to damage for Favored Souls does distinguish the class from Cleric...



Cosmetics are always welcome.


I do hope this expansion has a least one raid inside it,
frankly What goes up should have been a raid not a quest.
Hopefully there will be a fair amount of quests as well.

[Fenix93]

I say that my and only aesthetic opinion,When I saw the note I could see the time to look and see the new breed, so this morning I fell on the lamannia to test.

https://i.imgur.com/glhdV0v.png

So what about ... virtually a copy and glue of humans, unlike dragonborn and Gnome race ... here I see again a drop in the quality of the models in general.But then I went to search the internet of Aasimar's 3.5 and 5th images on the internet and I came across these.

https://i.imgur.com/xrRowdo.png

It is clear that the Aasimar on the one hand are "descendants" to say the Arconti, and so their appearance looks a bit like the Shavarta arconti, which is why more or less and the concept that it was so.What I find annoying is that the hair and the beard in general for the Aasimar have no unique appearance, only the color of the skin and the fact that above the head can have different symbols of Ebberon's plans as they are originated in this world in DDO.

https://i.imgur.com/80Hks9U.png

More or less here is how an Aasimar is created,by this I am not saying that is a bad job and only that, I would like to see something more, the hair is a pose different from the normal human, we already have Shar-dakay and half-elves that have the basic posture of human ... perfection .. .vi spongiuro given a different pose to Aasimar ... to end it more different.But the movements I have to say are not that bad ... I also seem to have taken the elf in LOTRO but ... this is just a detail, what I do not understand and whether there are any new animations in itself in the use of weapons, I noticed that some Aasima characters who used sticks or two-handed weapons held them in a different way from other races ... it would not be bad if these features were implemented in all races ... not to make all the characters look like so unrealistic ... and ridiculous that my characters keep my arms all the time even when I do emoes ... it would be nice if SSG would bump on all the characters when they are not in combat to have the weapons rebuilt as in the creation of the character, it would be more realistic and less "Pocket of a board game".

So what "I want" or "I want to see" are:


Unique hairstyles for Gli Aasimar.


A unique pose for Aasimar.


New ways to keep weapons for all characters so that they do not look like the same handgun for all weapons (this for all races and even the iconics).


Make sure that when you are out of combat, weapons are refitted rather than being held in hand.

[The_Human_Cypher]

Not sure if this is part of the known bugs with Aasimar, but the option for maximum metallic skin is hardly noticeable under all but the brightest of lighting conditions. I'm not sure if that is my own visual settings getting in the way or not, but it may need to be looked into.


...also, I agree with everything written above by Edrein.

-Jayron

Yes, I barely noticed the result of upping the Metallic skin in character builder until I made a second Aasimar toon.

[DaveyCrockett]

Will the Healing Hands of aasimar work while in tree mode from Avatar of Nature?

[Aelonwy]

Would it be possible to get some unique hairstyles for Aasimar? I was thinking one feathered, one scaled, possibly one rainbow hued? Also would it be possible to get one more skin tone column for lavender/violet? Please.

What controls the color of the forehead symbol? Can this be toggled on/off if I don't want to show it?


From left to right: on the far left is a Ghaele ancestry inspired Aasimar with rainbow hair. Second from the left Lillend ancestry results in pastel skin tones of a variety of lavender, pale violet, periwinkle, seafoam, and usually feathers or scales for hair. I used an existing hairstyle and layered feathers over it and tried for a similar skin tone to one of the drow skin tones but lighter and less dusky. Third is gold solar ancestry. The green is suitable for Planetar, Lillend, or couatl ancestry.

Examples:

https://i.imgur.com/3ZILvuz.jpg

[JoeShmo]

As others have mentioned, it really would be quite nice to have something in the Vistani tree that allows daggers to count as centered weapons for us monk players so we don't have to invest heavily in the Kensai tree. Us pure monks (yes I know there aren't too many left), have a hard AP split as is, but I would love to be able to try a dagger monk build if daggers could allow me to be centered. Please consider this; not sure if maybe this is something that the iconic Aasimar tree may have or not. Thank you :)

[FuzzyDuck81]

Knife fighter tree looks very cool, time to get planning out a couple of potential builds. It'd be cool if there was something in it to allow them to be compatible with monks too though, IMO the different fighting style would fit it & if you're looking for some lore justification, see Danica from the Cleric Quintet :)

Aasimar looks nice too, but it's going to be challenging fitting that in for existing builds - am liking the look of it for a monk in particular though.

[Vulkoorex]

When will SSG come out with a definite Ravenloft bundle list?
Will any of the bundles include the recent races (Dragon born, gnomes, Deep gnomes)?
Will any of the bundles include some of the newer quest packs?
Will any bundled have ddo points included?

I want to know how much money I need to set aside.

[SpartanKiller13]

Before everything else, thank you for giving results about the TR mess. That has cost a bunch of players etc, so I'm glad that it's being fixed.

I'm really excited by Aasimar, finally a base race that gives MP/hp plus healamp instead of huge penalties to healing.

And 5% DS for 4 minutes/rest, totally OP - seriously, at least get a useful boost there, Divine Purpose is more like a random priest waved at you than deity-given power. Alternatively gain about half as much HAmp as a randomgen item. Mindboggling in how much the meta will shift from this.

If I understand correctly, a Aasimar Paladin 3+ in US should be able to have +50% hp? Sacred, Insight, and Competence should stack; along with double LoH, this should be a fairly standard part of tank builds coming up. Pretty cool :D

I'm not personally a fan of Vistani, because I don't like daggers XD. It's pretty cool in that it allows for more universal builds, so hopefully we'll be able to get a Reaper capable Race+Vistani build that works regardless of class split = easy Class PL farming.

I feel like it could make a fun SWF build with Swashbuckler, even if the +1/+1 from Vistani won't stack. Throw on a buckler, get shield mastery, have hilarious doublestrike as well as some decent combat boosting attacks.


Do sources of extra lay on hands (sacred defender, unyielding sentinel) also grant extra healing hand uses, or vice versa? What about regeneration of uses (aasimar tree, sentinel)? Can Light the Dark use healing hand uses?

This. Although I'd imagine they don't stack, because one is Cha based and one is Wis based, as well as different scalings.


Aasimar do not make optimal Warlocks, and that is fine. :)

Still make great Warlock dip races, giving healing + temps + Displacement for only 5 levels :P


Not saying "you can't play a half-orc paladin" is not the same thing as saying "all half-orc optional abilities synergize perfectly with paladin". You can still PLAY an Aasimar warlock. Some of the ABILITIES involve mutual exclusivity. Maybe read what he actually wrote next time instead of making something up and claiming it was a "bunch of lies".

TBF you totally can toggle the Aasimar part on, heal, and flip back to the Warlock toggle. It's barely an issue except for mid-combat heals, and you can Stanch/Shining Through for those anyway. IMO it's a straight buff, like a Halfling Dragonmark except it refreshes.


Also there's a certain irony to Vistani getting Undead Hunter, considering two of the most common undead types (skeletons and zombies) resist piercing damage - which, ya know, daggers. :rolleyes:

Gotta shore up their weak point. :cool:

[edrein]

Knife fighter tree looks very cool, time to get planning out a couple of potential builds. It'd be cool if there was something in it to allow them to be compatible with monks too though, IMO the different fighting style would fit it & if you're looking for some lore justification, see Danica from the Cleric Quintet :)

Aasimar looks nice too, but it's going to be challenging fitting that in for existing builds - am liking the look of it for a monk in particular though.

I've always been saddened by not being able to run a pure ninja spy with daggers in the vein of mimicking Danica. Loved those books, probably Salvatore's best writing character wise.

[Steelstar]

Do sources of extra lay on hands (sacred defender, unyielding sentinel) also grant extra healing hand uses, or vice versa? What about regeneration of uses (aasimar tree, sentinel)? Can Light the Dark use healing hand uses?

Nope, they're separate sources. There will likely* be other things in the future that give out extra uses of Healing Hands.


What are the racial reincarnation benefits of Aasimar? That's missing from the preview notes.

Ah, sorry. Heal, Wisdom, +1 Racial AP.


With 3 named throwing daggers and only 2 of them having epic upgrades the tree can be universally ignored by thrower builds as well.

Did it not occur to you guys

There are new throwing daggers at a variety of levels dropping at the same time as Vistani, and several more soon after.

Over 12 years, there are very few things that haven't occurred to us yet. :) (Most forum posts I've seen over the years that lead with "have you thought about x", the topic has almost always been discussed internally at least once before. Including this!).


Will the Healing Hands of aasimar work while in tree mode from Avatar of Nature?

Should, yes. Healing Hands requires your Bond feat to be active, which doesn't preclude Tree Form. I'd need to double-check the specifics of Tree Form, but if you can currently use Lay On Hands in tree form, you should also be able to use Healing Hands.

[wmdearmond]

the guide is not working

[edrein]

Nope, they're separate sources. There will likely* be other things in the future that give out extra uses of Healing Hands.

If this is done; can I please make a small request. Do not make these items race specific. I mean in this case that's fine, although I'd like the ability to create my own gear for this in cannith crafting albeit at a lesser amount. It's just the fact I have a sour taste in my mouth about breath attack DC boosts being dragonborn only. When anyone can run Draconic as an ED and druid's can also benefit from the breath DC gear for winter wolf. (A small niche on the druid aspect, but DC boosts are still important.)

[dragons1ayer74]

Sorry I think the Vistani Knife Fighter enhancement tree is generally underwhelming and at all levels far too clickie. Other than for a flavored alt build I can say as this tree exists currently I would feel even when I own it I would nearly never invest even a single AP. Very disappointing for what is supposed to be one of the new toys.

Also the new race should have it base stats and stat progression in the tree evaluated some more; (make them better and allow CHA and WIS at +2) even if it means making it a 34 point build vs a 36 point build.

[Saaluta]

3 named throwing daggers for Heroic, 2 named throwing daggers for Epic. I cant imagine too many people jumping for joy at the thought of that.




Just do what I did, bring over your crafter and make some throwing daggers to test with :)

Saal :)

[Arkat]

Honestly, the Iconic Aasimar (Scourge? Not familiar with the lore on this one) should be the Turn/Destroy Undead specialist that is from Barovia.

Turn/Destroy Undead = Primary
Caster = Secondary (more Light spellpower...maybe also Alignment spellpower)
Melee = Tertiary


I'm ok with the non-Iconic Aasimar focusing more on Melee (Paladins and Melee FvSes).

Melee = Primary
Caster = Secondary/Tertiary
Turn Undead = Tertiary/Secondary

[Niminae]

He didn't say that a historical DND mechanic was "the impetus", just that there are plenty other examples of OTHER similar mechanics of mutual exclusivity in the system--both historically, AND in DDO.

The rationale for them getting +1 stats is that they're nominally an overpowered race in their original version--they get TOO MANY stat points and abilities, so normally you have to lose a level to play them (a mechanism that is non-functional in DDO).

It's not entirely accurate to say that the "lose a level" for the Aasimar +1 level adjustment is a non-functional mechainc in DDO. Iconic races force the first level into a specific class, so an Aasimar race selection could force the first level into an 'Aasimar level adjustment' class (or whatever they wanted to call it) which does the same thing in DDO as it does in PnP D&D. You'd need to prevent using a +1 LR stone from getting away from that first level, and making the Aasimar level adjustment class is probably more work than just throwing a +1 to two stats at the race and calling it a day, but it could have been done if there was the will to do so. It would have probably have limited Aasimar to two class multi-classing, since that first level would count as a class, but I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Loromir]

I'm confused as to why SSG is averse to giving us an Ebberron Version of a +2 Wisdom Race. Aasimar is a perfect opportunity to do so. I don't like seeing it split between +1 Wis and +1 Chr.

There currently is no Eberron Race with a Wisdom Bonus, yet there are at least 2 with a Charisma Bonus. Why Dilute the Aasimar?

+2 Wisdom for Aasimar is perfectly in line with D&D lore. As is +2 Chr.

If you really are hellbent on including Chr for Aasimar...why not give us a multi selector so we can spread out 2 bonus points as we see fit?

I'm an admitted DDO Fanboi...but this just makes no sense.

[Aelonwy]

I'm confused as to why SSG is averse to giving us an Ebberron Version of a +2 Wisdom Race. Aasimar is a perfect opportunity to do so. I don't like seeing it split between +1 Wis and +1 Chr.

There currently is no Eberron Race with a Wisdom Bonus, yet there are at least 2 with a Charisma Bonus. Why Dilute the Aasimar?

+2 Wisdom for Aasimar is perfectly in line with D&D lore. As is +2 Chr.

If you really are hellbent on including Chr for Aasimar...why not give us a multi selector so we can spread out 2 bonus points as we see fit?


I agree. Most wisdom based classes are P2P, monk, fvs, druid unless VIP (still paying), the only race that gives +2 wis is currently iconic... just feels like wisdom based is unnecessarily penalized.

[Cordovan]

We have corrected the issue with The Guide, who is now working correctly.

[Niminae]

Also there's a certain irony to Vistani getting Undead Hunter, considering two of the most common undead types (skeletons and zombies) resist piercing damage - which, ya know, daggers. :rolleyes:

Long, long before the movies there was Blade the comic book character, who hunted vampires with his wooden daggers instead of using a katna just because it is perceived to be cooler (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KatanasAreJustBetter). Because what is a wooden dagger but a stake with an edge and a point instead of just a point? I'd love to see something like that with itemization to go along with the tree and the expansion.

[Silverleafeon]

Nope, they're separate sources. There will likely* be other things in the future that give out extra uses of Healing Hands.



Sounds reasonably balanced.

Hoping for a Planar Epic Destiny Sphere.
One could drop in a Null Challenge Epic Destiny to help fill it out quickly.
A Null Challenge Epic Destiny simply does not have any (or very small) benefits (yes crazy but interesting).
The Planar Epic Destiny fits in the middle of the map and provides a bridge to other Spheres.
The upcoming someday Artificier support ED could go there, along with a Warlock themed ED.



Ah, sorry. Heal, Wisdom, +1 Racial AP.


Sounds good.




There are new throwing daggers at a variety of levels dropping at the same time as Vistani, and several more soon after.


Nods happily.



Over 12 years, there are very few things that haven't occurred to us yet. :) (Most forum posts I've seen over the years that lead with "have you thought about x", the topic has almost always been discussed internally at least once before. Including this!).


Nods sagely, suggests adding pink bubble gum to the game that one can chew and toss on the pavement for other players to get stuck in....
;)
Oh, Unicorn rental for riding around Eveningstar...
;)



Should, yes. Healing Hands requires your Bond feat to be active, which doesn't preclude Tree Form. I'd need to double-check the specifics of Tree Form, but if you can currently use Lay On Hands in tree form, you should also be able to use Healing Hands.

Awhile back I wondered if Tree Form should require Wild Shape and maybe be a Wild Shape form, but then I though about all the broken builds that would complain...
Whatever...

Epic Wild Shape someday?

[EllisDee37]

Is it intended that Unyielding Sentinel Tier 3: Endless Lay On Hands does not help Healing Hands?

If so, it's kind of funny that the prereqs listed are one of the following:

Healing Hands (Tier 3 Sentinel ability)
Lay On Hands

[Silverleafeon]

Is it intended that Unyielding Sentinel Tier 3: Endless Lay On Hands does not help Healing Hands?

If so, it's kind of funny that the prereqs listed are one of the following:

Healing Hands (Tier 3 Sentinel ability)
Lay On Hands

Healing Hands: Passive Bonus: You gain the Lay On Hands feat. You gain +25 positive spellpower.

EDP Cost: 2
Ranks: 1
Progression: 8
No requirements


Nice Catch.

If there are upcoming sources from other Epic Destinies to support the new racial healing hands,
then it might be wise to rename thus or rename the ED ability to avoid confusion.

It also might be very wise (since upcoming ED might not be upcoming in the next 6 months?),
to consider letting US ED healing hands stack/ work with the racial healing hands,
as well as letting either healing hands power light the dark.

After all, this racial tree seems to synergize with Pally (which is what the US ED tree is geared towards).

Either way, I can understand making racial healing hands not stack with Pally features.

[Renvar]

Is it intended that Unyielding Sentinel Tier 3: Endless Lay On Hands does not help Healing Hands?

If so, it's kind of funny that the prereqs listed are one of the following:

Healing Hands (Tier 3 Sentinel ability)
Lay On Hands

Steelstar answered that question here:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/490207-U36-Patch-3-First-Preview-Release-Notes/page7?p=6024596#post6024596

LoH and Healing Hands are separate things. It is confusing, though, that US has an enhancement called Healing Hands.

[Silverleafeon]

Steelstar answered that question here:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/490207-U36-Patch-3-First-Preview-Release-Notes/page7?p=6024596#post6024596

LoH and Healing Hands are separate things. It is confusing, though, that US has an enhancement called Healing Hands.

As long as they plan some additional support for the wisdom healing hands, and rename one of the two, then it sounds ok.

[Silverleafeon]

It appears that only Monk & Druids (and certain potential upcoming classes) are not proficient in throwing daggers.
So the vast majority of classes will be able to use the new Knife trees without spending extra feats.

[EllisDee37]

Some issues I came across while transcribing the trees into my planner:

Aasimir Tier 3: Divine Charge
+1/2/3 Purpose Charges
Requirements: None

This should require Tier 2: Divine Purpose, being the ability that Divine Charge adds uses for. They're right on top of each other in the tree.


Vistani Knife Fighter Tier 2: Vistani Knife Training
Requrements: None

This should probably require Tier 1: Vistani Knife Training. There's five of these, one on each tier, and they all require the tier below it except tier 2 doesn't require tier 1.

[MarDeRoam]

Here's a quick look at the cosmetic pets (Dark Cat and Raven) and Outfits (Outfit and Hat)
https://i.imgur.com/hF8mQaC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/T5HwvEU.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/M7UKjmZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/rKqXl7w.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Dms14ys.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YeodMSj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/tJuZOe4.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/NjYgZSH.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5MXCfQT.jpg

[Steelstar]

Aasimir Tier 3: Divine Charge
+1/2/3 Purpose Charges
Requirements: None

This should require Tier 2: Divine Purpose, being the ability that Divine Charge adds uses for. They're right on top of each other in the tree.


Our system doesn't play nice right now with a 3-rank Enhancement hard-requiring a 1-rank Enhancement; it won't let you buy beyond Rank 1 of the 3-rank Enhancement, because you don't have the nonexistent Rank 2 of (in this case) Divine Purpose.

I'll see what I can do, but otherwise careful reading of the skills' descriptions should hopefully help people realize they shouldn't buy a skill that has no use to them. ;)

[EllisDee37]

Our system doesn't play nice right now with a 3-rank Enhancement hard-requiring a 1-rank Enhancement; it won't let you buy beyond Rank 1 of the 3-rank Enhancement, because you don't have the nonexistent Rank 2 of (in this case) Divine Purpose.

I'll see what I can do, but otherwise careful reading of the skills' descriptions should hopefully help people realize they shouldn't buy a skill that has no use to them. ;)Totally fair enough, and I empathize since I ran into that exact same headache with my character planner.

But that just means that it's part of the game already, so it should definitely be doable. Examples from my release notes from July of this year (meaning it took me forever to get it squared away):


Abilities with multiple ranks now properly ignore prereq ranks taken if prereq doesn't have ranks Dragonborn Tier 3: Draconic Heritage => Tier 2: Dragon Breath
Divine Disciple Tier 1: Spellpower => Tier 0: Emissary (of Light/Darkness)
Divine Disciple Tier 3: Spellpower => Tier 0: Emissary (of Light/Darkness)
Unyielding Sentinel Tier 3: Intolerant Blows => Tier 2: Fanaticism
Unyielding Sentinel Tier 3: Endless Lay On Hands => Tier 3: Healing Hands

Maybe one of those has some hidden code tucked away to handle it in-game.

EDIT: I can see most of those list items may not apply to regular enhancements. The only one that seems like a candidate is the dragonborn breath thing, but I'm not 100% positive that prereq is actually enforced in-game. (I don't own dragonborn.)

[DrWily]

I'm not sure where to post bugs on the test server so I'll just put it here to be relayed. This is all from last night and I'm not sure if it's been fixed since then.

Vistani's Action Boost: Haste currently gives you 0 charges and can't be increased beyond 0. I didn't check to see if Extra Action Boost increased that.
Vistani's Fan of Knives seems to be able to spell crit, as it says in the Combat log. I don't know if it's also affected by force spellpower like other force/physical/untyped attacks.
Aasimar's Divine Purpose seems to only last 20 seconds rather than the advertised 60 seconds, making it more like an Action Boost with only one charge.

[emmanuelvargas]

this way you can have a good aasimar with +2 wis +2 cha , and a fallen aasimar with +2 wis +2 str

much like in the D&D 4th Edition that you get to choose where to assign the secondary ability bonus, I like it. But let's see if the DDO team think about this.

[Paisheng]

Gargoyle's link goes directly to Severlin saying the following on a live stream:
Cordovan: Oh, a question for you Sev that I know you can answer: Why no wisdom to hit and damage for the monk?

Severlin: Yeah we're working on a...we want to move unusual to-hit and damage effects like that to races and universal trees, rather than having them in base classes. So the base classes are limited to conceptually dex, because weapon finesse has always been a part of core 3.5, and obviously strength, and then the other ones will tend to move to more exotic places rather than base classes. We kind of want people to have to pay for...we want stat diversity, and if people really want to streamline in one stat we want them to have to sort of go outside to get that. So yeah, that's my fault, so don't yell at Steelstar for that.

Cordovan: On the plus though one we do get that it's going to be be available to far more classes because of it.

Severlin: Yes.


I remember this conversation regarding wisdom to be in a universal tree for hit and damage; and as a monk player am still holding my monk hood on that hook for the future. I understand how Cordovan or others could have forgotten this as they deal with countless ideas and suggestions. I am sure there is no guile. But now that you have "gently" reminded them of a direction they appeared to consider seriously at that time, perhaps a comment from a dev that this is still (or back on) the table for an upcoming universal tree (2018 hopefully). It would cheer all of us monk fans and I am sure many other wisdom based classes as druid, cleric, etc.

But I don't want to forget my manners. A HUGE thank you for still infusing the ddo game with new inspiration, builds, mystery, and quests with this upcoming expansion. Even the lively debate and those with concerns are once again infused with passion because they love dnd and ddo. Thank you for giving us so much enjoyment!

[sjbb87]

Vistani Knife Fighter vs Assassin enhancements
So.... can i assume that Daggers bonus will not stack?

[edrein]

Vistani Knife Fighter vs Assassin enhancements
So.... can i assume that Daggers bonus will not stack?

Only the T5 clickie bonuses would stack.

[Wongar]

I moved my main to Lam to do some testing and did a TR into a male Aasimar - 14C/4P/1F

Some things that don't appear to work:
I took all 5 cores in Aasimar and healing hands stayed at one charge per rest. Additionally stronger bonds did not seem to be recharging the ability.
I took three ranks of Blessings for the +30 Positive Spell Power and listed Positive Spell power did not change.
Ascendant Bond: Protector has no affect when toggled on. Neither the HP bonus or PRR/MRR changes on the character sheet.
I selected the Wisdom and healing Amp and they worked correctly.
These tests were done with no equipment on or other AP spent to avoid stacking issues.

Leveled to 30 and selected the Divine Crusader destiny and it seems to have some problems as well:
Aura of Purification does not affect nearby mobs: I stood in the middle of a pack of mobs (LOD - epic) and only one mob got a stacks of Purification, the others - no matter how many or how close did not get stacks.
I did a mass Inflict light Wounds and all nearby mobs got 1 stack as they should that wore off without being refreshed / affected by Aura of Purification. If you kill the one mob that is getting stacks, all close by mobs will get a few stacks from No regret as expected but only one will continue to build stacks - the others will ware off.
Consecration did do damage and build stacks of Purification.

[Silverleafeon]

Gargoyle's link goes directly to Severlin saying the following on a live stream:
Cordovan: Oh, a question for you Sev that I know you can answer: Why no wisdom to hit and damage for the monk?

Severlin: Yeah we're working on a...we want to move unusual to-hit and damage effects like that to races and universal trees, rather than having them in base classes. So the base classes are limited to conceptually dex, because weapon finesse has always been a part of core 3.5, and obviously strength, and then the other ones will tend to move to more exotic places rather than base classes. We kind of want people to have to pay for...we want stat diversity, and if people really want to streamline in one stat we want them to have to sort of go outside to get that. So yeah, that's my fault, so don't yell at Steelstar for that.

Cordovan: On the plus though one we do get that it's going to be be available to far more classes because of it.

Severlin: Yes.



Reading thru that again, thanks for the link....

This definitely does not promise the next or any independent tree will be wis to damage.

Its simply a philosophy that any such type situation other than Str or Dex would be tended to move to more exotic places rather than base classes.

Pardon my assumptions otherwise.



;;;;


On another note, not granting synergy for every component of DDO is actually a good thing as DDO adds more and more to the game.
Class and Race distinction becomes more and more problematic as time goes by, but MtG seems to have kept up original ideas for decades, so...

[edrein]

On another note, not granting synergy for every component of DDO is actually a good thing as DDO adds more and more to the game.
Class and Race distinction becomes more and more problematic as time goes by, but MtG seems to have kept up original ideas for decades, so...

Yes and no, I'd argue to an extent some of the distinction here is a bit overkill. Fey Pact warlock should fit for an aasimar, although I'd prefer were straight up got a celestial pact in general. Warlock pacts are not bound to be infernal or eldritch horror in nature. And Fallen Aasimar and a lawful evil fiend pact go hand in hand as far as theme and lore go. I get where the devs are coming from and to an extent I accept it, I just think they're stretching the reasoning a bit. Better to say, "We don't want broken warlock-aasimar combinations" than trying to explain it away with a lore flub. Especially in a D&D game that refuses to allow evil player characters, but still allows us to have access to some evil alignment based prestiges (ravager, assassin, PM, and ninja spy).

I think the biggest problem in general is just the Divine Form toggle. Making that exclusive with other 'form' toggles is a bit overkill. Atleast hand tweak it rather than blanket it. As I pointed out earlier with a question, this could possibly block Enlightened Spirit's Celestial Spirit, which I doubt is intended to be blocked on Aasimar. It also prevents a wisdom race from making the unique distinction of the only potentially pure druid tank that doesn't have to splash fighter levels for defender stance.

I'm fine with warlocks being excluded until we possibly see a celestial pact down the line. I'm not fine with pretty much every non-paladin build option being excluded from things like Divine Form. Additionally there's the issue of how this will interact with EDs, such as the Angellic form in Exalted Angel or Avatar of Nature in Primal Avatar. How does this interact with Construct Exemplar? Druid forms are being just wolf exploit builds. Caster druids that are aasimar won't be able to enjoy a nice HP boost until druids get their pass at all, same for tanks. This also extends to aasimar sorcs; they won't be able to use their capstones while they have Divine Form toggled. The utility of these options are eclipsed by the exclusiveness. I mean there are a lot of things that need to be tested and considered. There are too many finer points that can be messed up with exclusions than inclusions.

[EllisDee37]

This definitely does not promise the next or any independent tree will be wis to damage.Promise, no, but Severlin clearly described the direction he wanted to head in:

Unusual stat mods for attack and damage -- particularly wisdom for monks -- is fine for players to have, but they want to put that kind of thing in racial or global trees. Specifically not as class features.

Fast forward to the next changes of the kind discussed:

- Wisdom to attack and damage is added to one class only, requires having at least 10 levels in that class, and only works for a very limited set of weapons. Which, notably, does not include handwraps.

- Two racial trees and a global tree are added, with no unusual attack/damage mods in sight.

The direction Severlin discussed going in has apparently been abandoned completely, as they've gone in the complete opposite direction.

[PermaBanned]

Vistani Knife Fighter vs Assassin enhancements
So.... can i assume that Daggers bonus will not stack?
Generic Enhancement bonuses to Hit & Damage *always stack. Specific Typed bonuses (i.e. Competence bonus to Crit Range and/or Multiplier) don't stack with others of the same type.

* "always" excepting Bugs, Antirequisits or cases where there's text noting the unusual circumstance.

[PermaBanned]

Promise, no, but Severlin clearly described the direction he wanted to head in:

Unusual stat mods for attack and damage -- particularly wisdom for monks -- is fine for players to have, but they want to put that kind of thing in racial or global trees. Specifically not as class features.

Fast forward to the next changes of the kind discussed:

- Wisdom to attack and damage is added to one class only, requires having at least 10 levels in that class, and only works for a very limited set of weapons. Which, notably, does not include handwraps.

- Two racial trees and a global tree are added, with no unusual attack/damage mods in sight.

The direction Severlin discussed going in has apparently been abandoned completely, as they've gone in the complete opposite direction.Yeah, the turn around time from "we don't want to put that in a Class" to "here it is for Favored Souls" was laughably fast.

[Amoneth]

Would it be possible to get some unique hairstyles for Aasimar? I was thinking one feathered, one scaled, possibly one rainbow hued? Also would it be possible to get one more skin tone column for lavender/violet? Please.

What controls the color of the forehead symbol? Can this be toggled on/off if I don't want to show it?


From left to right: on the far left is a Ghaele ancestry inspired Aasimar with rainbow hair. Second from the left Lillend ancestry results in pastel skin tones of a variety of lavender, pale violet, periwinkle, seafoam, and usually feathers or scales for hair. I used an existing hairstyle and layered feathers over it and tried for a similar skin tone to one of the drow skin tones but lighter and less dusky. Third is gold solar ancestry. The green is suitable for Planetar, Lillend, or couatl ancestry.

Examples:

https://i.imgur.com/3ZILvuz.jpg

Dammit man, I was skimming through this post for screenshots, saw these and got really excited about being able to have rainbow hair! Then I realised they were just fan art, ebil, eeeebil I tells you!

[SpardaX]

I am not aware of us committing to a universal Wisdom-to-Damage enhancement tree. If we did indicate that, then I apologize. I am not aware of a universal Wisdom-to-Damage tree in the works.

I know it isn't a commitment persè, fair point. But putting it in Favored Soul and (at least for now -only- favored soul) not only forgets this statement, but actually goes against what was originally said. If you need me to jog your memory, I'm more than happy. I only had to find the video, and youtube automatically put me at the exact time I needed to be at, so apparently Iv gone back to this more than once. Why? Because I really -really- want my wis to hit and damage :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnWcV9PrBcw&t=1757s

This is you there, while they mention not only that wis to hit and damage was (at least, at the time) on their radar, but what and where they were planning on putting it.

P.S.: I guess what I should gauge from your comment, is that if there was plans, they are no longer planned. And this makes me very sad. It makes me very sad that currently my 18 wizard / 2 monk with Int to hit and damage is a better melee character than my 20 monk who's just sitting pretty desperately waiting for soon(tm). But oh well.

Edit+P.P.S: Apparently iv been beaten to the punch with my above link. Ah well. I'll just see myself out.

[Aelonwy]

Dammit man, I was skimming through this post for screenshots, saw these and got really excited about being able to have rainbow hair! Then I realised they were just fan art, ebil, eeeebil I tells you!

I'm sorry it wasn't my intention to mislead anyone, only to get my point across to the devs that currently the Character Creation selections for Aasimar are incredibly bland and there isn't much to get excited about visually.

[Steelstar]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?

[Renvar]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?

I would be in favor of this change.

[SerPounce]

Divine Purpose: Gain an active ability with one charge per rest. Must have your Bond Feat active to use.

Protector: You sprout ethereal wings, the marks of the Protector. For one minute, you gain a Determination Bonus to Healing Amplification and Positive Spell Power equal to your Character Level.
Fallen: You sprout weird wings of a Fallen Aasimar. For one minute, you gain +2 Primal bonus to Strength and +5% Primal bonus to Doublestrike.


The wing bit is great, but unless I'm missing something the actual bonuses are pretty weak for their AP cost. 4 AP for 4 minutes of +2 str and 5% doublestrike? That's only marginally better than what I would expect out of 4 AP for a passive. Same with the Healing Amp. You would usually get +40 amp out of 4 AP right? Here you get max +30 Amp and +30 positive spellpower for 4 minutes for 4 AP... pretty lackluster.

I think you could double those bonuses. Action boosts really need to add a considerable amount of power to be worth the trouble. I'd hate to see something with such a stand out visual be neglected because the mechanics are underwelming.

[guzzlr]

I like the proposed +2 Wis. I was not as... impassioned... as others regarding +1/+1, but of the two I prefer this. I gives the race an actual Wisdom modifier bonus, not just a possible bonus modifier.

I also generally feel that the time is past due for Wisdom to hit and damage, and this race feels like the one to do it. If Purple Dragon Knight has charisma, Aasimar could easily have wisdom.

Options, I like options.

[thomassmith2]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?

I, and I suspect many others, would support the change in attribute allocation.

I would still like to see bonds changed as I personally see no reason why a fallen aasimar shouldn't be able to use an infernal or eldritch pact or why a protector aasimar can't use a fey pact. I'd prefer to limit bonds by alignment rather than being a toggle.

I'd also like to see healing hands and lay on hands share a cool down and be effected by the same things as lay on hands

[The_Human_Cypher]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?

Offer the option of either base WIS +2 or CHA +2, but not both in a single build. This would allow players to add more customization to the kind of Aasimar they want to play (WIS for Clerics and CHA for Favored Souls).

[Amoneth]

I'm sorry it wasn't my intention to mislead anyone, only to get my point across to the devs that currently the Character Creation selections for Aasimar are incredibly bland and there isn't much to get excited about visually.

No need to apologise but please get a job in the art dept at SSG. Thanks! :D

[The_Human_Cypher]

I was on Lamannia last night and saw the Scarecrow fighting pet in the Test Dojo. The pet looks good and I look forward to using it at Level 10. :D

[JoeShmo]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?

Greatly in favor of this change as well.

[JoeShmo]

Also @Steelstar if you or another dev could provide some feedback/commentary to the overwhelming responses from the community about it being time for WIS to hit and damage to be available since every other stat has been compensated for in some fashion, I know we would all greatly appreciate it. Aasimar, or the iconic version, seem like a great opportunity to introduce this option to the players. Thank you.

[Loromir]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?

This would be a good move.

[Loromir]

I was on Lamannia last night and saw the Scarecrow fighting pet in the Test Dojo. The pet looks good and I look forward to using it at Level 10. :D

I agree. I wonder if it would be a reasonable Idea to lower the level of the epic version from 30 to 28 or even 27?

I'm not sure how durable it going to be in high level epic content anyway.

[Amoneth]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?

Yes please! Also, rainbow hair, thanks! :D

[Paisheng]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?

In favor of the wisdom +2.

However there are some caveats of concern to the aasimar racial tree. I fear the aasimar racial tree is so strong already toward wisdom builds, like my monk, that it will be the only race that many such wisdom builds will use. I mean, for example, they have the same heal amp available as human -- but for half the ap cost. Its 2 in human and only 1 in aasimar per 20pts hamp. And with all the other --in my opinion -- better synergy enhancements in aasimar than human or halfling or any other race -- I am afraid every monk, cleric, fs, etc. will be aasimars! I want to see more diversity. While human in essence still has a free chosen feat, aasimar still gets a bonus feat too (bond). Not sure I will be tempted any more to be anything but aasimar for my monk. At least tweak the human tree to only cost 1 ap for hamp or make aasimar 2pts also.

And if they will start with 2 more wisdom? Sure I love it -- But another reason to never play other races with wisdom builds. Maybe shore up or give some love to human in particular -- I mean aasimar seems just like a better human tree.

And I am all for +1 hit and +1 dmg for wisdom if you are still considering that -- but if you put it in this racial tree (despite its synergy) then it is a done deal. 100% of monks and most other wis builds will ever only be aasimar unless choosing another just for flavor. Please put it in a universal tree as was originally discussed by the devs.

Thanks for getting our feedback.

[JoeShmo]

In favor of the wisdom +2.

However there are some caveats of concern to the aasimar racial tree. I fear the aasimar racial tree is so strong already toward wisdom builds, like my monk, that it will be the only race that many such wisdom builds will use. I mean, for example, they have the same heal amp available as human -- but for half the ap cost. Its 2 in human and only 1 in aasimar per 20pts hamp. And with all the other --in my opinion -- better synergy enhancements in aasimar than human or halfling or any other race -- I am afraid every monk, cleric, fs, etc. will be aasimars! I want to see more diversity. While human in essence still has a free chosen feat, aasimar still gets a bonus feat too (bond). Not sure I will be tempted any more to be anything but aasimar for my monk. At least tweak the human tree to only cost 1 ap for hamp or make aasimar 2pts also.

And if they will start with 2 more wisdom? Sure I love it -- But another reason to never play other races with wisdom builds. Maybe shore up or give some love to human in particular -- I mean aasimar seems just like a better human tree.

And I am all for +1 hit and +1 dmg for wisdom if you are still considering that -- but if you put it in this racial tree (despite its synergy) then it is a done deal. 100% of monks and most other wis builds will ever only be aasimar unless choosing another just for flavor. Please put it in a universal tree as was originally discussed by the devs.

Thanks for getting our feedback.

Not sure I would agree about the very strong synergy for monks with the Aasimar tree. For starters, neither bond is really that crazy useful since STR and CHA are really not needed on modern monks these days. Sure the effects higher up in the tree are pretty nifty, but that brings me to my next point. Monks have such a tight AP split as it is to get everything they need (Henshin for MP, Shintao, Ninja Spy for Shadow Veil, Harper tree for DC boosting, etc.) that I think they would have a hard time investing heavily into the Aasimar tree to the point where it would be very useful to them.

All that being said, however, I would love to have another option for a +2 WIS race other than gnome and welcome the challenge that this race would present in terms of AP allocation and build optimality. And as I mentioned/asked Steelstar earlier, I would also really love to hear about the option to have WIS to hit and damage in Aasimar or the iconic Aasimar race.

[thomassmith2]

Not sure I would agree about the very strong synergy for monks with the Aasimar tree. For starters, neither bond is really that crazy useful since STR and CHA are really not needed on modern monks these days. Sure the effects higher up in the tree are pretty nifty, but that brings me to my next point. Monks have such a tight AP split as it is to get everything they need (Henshin for MP, Shintao, Ninja Spy for Shadow Veil, Harper tree for DC boosting, etc.) that I think they would have a hard time investing heavily into the Aasimar tree to the point where it would be very useful to them.

All that being said, however, I would love to have another option for a +2 WIS race other than gnome and welcome the challenge that this race would present in terms of AP allocation and build optimality. And as I mentioned/asked Steelstar earlier, I would also really love to hear about the option to have WIS to hit and damage in Aasimar or the iconic Aasimar race.

I'd agree with this. It doesn't matter if Aasimar enhancements are better than humans as long as they're not also better than class enhancements because that just means you have to think hard about how to spend your points. I don't like the idea of giving them wisdom to hit though and agree this would be too strong. Personally I favour wisdom to hit being in a universal tree or class tree such a Shintao.

[Iriale]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?
Should have an option in which we can build an aasimar with +2 wis / + 2 cha. Followers 3.5, which are a few among your players, want a classic aasimar although you provide too other options

But better than +2 cha/+1 wis

[Vish]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?

I like the aasimar
Never played them in add
Look like humans, celestial?

Yes to +2 wisdom
If iconic, add +2 charisma

I had to play a monk as a deep gnome,
Just to get the +2 wis
Felt awkward
I like playing humans
I would run a monk as an aasimar
And maybe even my cleric
Even though that free feat means completionist
Which is overall better,
Meaning human monks for me
But I'd try it out.

Shores up the wisdom shortage
Much needed

[DYWYPI]

For Vistani Knife Fighting [Vistani Knife Training I]; I didn't observe any 'Active Blocking' animation, so I'm not sure if I just didn't notice that, or there isn't actually an animation for Active Blocking. I also presume the hitbox is perhaps narrower horizontally than classical dagger fighting when using Vistani Knife Training. It at least appeared that way from the over arm, Reverse Grip Knife Fighting animations or perhaps it was all just an illusion.

https://i.imgur.com/2ocxPS4.jpg

I think you did a good job with the cosmetics. I did notice an infinitesimal graphic glitch with my - none Vistani - Assassin's hair; oddly poking through the stiff back collar of the Vampire Hunter cloak (without the hat and mask) but it was hardly noticeable. It's possibly a cosmetic style I'd consider wearing. Have you thought of using the scarecrow outfit or parts of it as a Character wearable cosmetic since Scarecrow fashion is all the rage.

[edrein]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?

Thank you, this is definitely the direction most of us are wanting. I think we're fine with the Bond feats locking out warlock pacts. But can you please address the points I brought up in my previous posts about the Divine Form toggle and how that interacts with various classes beyond PM and druid? I still think the rules here are a bit strict in a harms build diversity way.

[Crowstep-Xanth]

hey how do I download Lamania? do you know?

[The_Human_Cypher]

hey how do I download Lamania? do you know?

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/376688-How-to-Access-Lamannia?

[Arkat]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?I would be in favor of this change.

As would I.



Should have an option in which we can build an Aasimar with +2 Wis OR + 2 Cha.

This would be better if it were possible.



For the iconic version, +2 Wis AND +2 Cha would seem appropriate. This would further my idea that the iconic Aasimar should be more focused on turning/destroying undead and being more "castery" than the non-iconic Aasimar which seems to be somewhat focused on melee ability. Obviously, the iconic racial tree would have to reflect my suggested differences.


Honestly, the Iconic Aasimar (Scourge? Not familiar with the lore on this one) should be the Turn/Destroy Undead specialist that is from Barovia.

Turn/Destroy Undead = Primary
Caster = Secondary (more Light spellpower...maybe also Alignment spellpower)
Melee = Tertiary


I'm ok with the non-Iconic Aasimar focusing more on Melee (Paladins and Melee FvSes).

Melee = Primary
Caster = Secondary/Tertiary
Turn Undead = Tertiary/Secondary

[Aelonwy]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?

Totally in favor of it.

[jakeelala]

Lammania has been updated. The build has been approved. We are going through the process of doing a character wipe and setting all the world properties to what they need to be before players are allowed in. We intend to open tonight within the next hour or two. Will put out an announcement when it is open.

No.

This tree is actually completely terrible and not better than the already mostly terrible options we already have for throwing with a knife (Assassin, Bard, Ranger/DwS + AA).

[Captain_Wizbang]

[EDIT2: Lamannia is now open!]











Bug Fixes:

Attack animations for Dragonborn wielding runearms are no longer stiff and awkward when wielding melee weapons or crossbows.
Unyielding Sentinel's Vigor of Battle now gives only the 20 Healing Amplification its text indicates that it should.










DB stunning blow is a head-butt and SLOW. Slow to the point of not using DB for melee.

[Steelstar]

DB stunning blow is a head-butt and SLOW. Slow to the point of not using DB for melee.

Dragonborn's Stunning Blow animation, while more bodily involved than other races', has the same total animation time and same hit detection/timing as everyone else's.

[Paladin_of_Power]

The wing bit is great, but unless I'm missing something the actual bonuses are pretty weak for their AP cost. 4 AP for 4 minutes of +2 str and 5% doublestrike? That's only marginally better than what I would expect out of 4 AP for a passive. Same with the Healing Amp. You would usually get +40 amp out of 4 AP right? Here you get max +30 Amp and +30 positive spellpower for 4 minutes for 4 AP... pretty lackluster.

I think you could double those bonuses. Action boosts really need to add a considerable amount of power to be worth the trouble. I'd hate to see something with such a stand out visual be neglected because the mechanics are underwelming.

Agreed. Paladin KotC Vigor of life gives:Your Positive Healing Amplification is increased by 20%, and you take 10% less damage from Negative Energy. For 2 AP and you can take it three times in Tiers 3,4,5. And its Passive.

Agree with an Action Boost it should be doubled.

[QueenOfTheHook]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?

I would love this. It would give heroic toons a chance to start with a +2 for wisdom which we don't currently have. I did a couple test builds with the 1/1 and ended up with odd numbers on a couple of stats because of it.

[Silverleafeon]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?

That direction would flow better with all the other races, and would finally add a +2 wis race to the game.
So, yes.

[Silverleafeon]

I would like to speak to the all the Employees of Standing Stones Games that Cordovan's videos are a good thing, but remember that not everyone has the time to watch them,
therefore many of us are very likely to read a summary thereof.

So, please think of that when you give out exclusive information thru nonforum sources that we cannot easy read directly.

[Silverleafeon]

Lol, god, you are easy to lie to

There are a few people still wearing rose colored glasses in this modern world...fortunately there are wiser and smarter who hopefully look out for such souls...

[Hipparan]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?

This is great! I was thinking about making an Aasimar Druid before I saw they only got +1 Wisdom, but now I think I'll definitely have to roll one out.

[Saekee]

The biggest problem with Vistani Knife Fighter is that only one subclass that specializes in knives (Dagger and Kukri?) and that is Assassin. No other build with maybe the exception Bard Swashbuckler have any benefit of using daggers that can match other weapon types. Even on an Assassin I would be hard pushed to spend much points outside of its class trees and possibly harper tree.

Vistani should have been more like harper and based on their culture and not just a single weapon style. This would have allowed others to benefit from the enhancements with maybe multi-selectors that would benefit rogues, bards, fighters and arcanes types etc.

Maybe instead of just knifes include light weapons would at least expands its scope. Knives suffer from the problem of poor crit profiles as well as damage die. It seems only reason to take the Tier 5 is maybe on a throwing dagger build as you can't throw Kukris.
agreed

The Vistani tree, unlike the Harper tree, is less a complimentary tree and more readily able to provide the backbone of a build. The tree allows anyone to specialize in two otherwise underutilized (and relatively underpowered) weapon types. Currently, on live, you will basically never see a Barbarian, a Paladin, or even a Fighter running around with daggers. Currently on live you will basically never see anyone running around with throwing daggers. The Vistani tree, however, makes it possible to create a perfectly reasonable dagger Barbarian (majoring in Vistani and taking the bits and pieces of generically useful for all weapon types enhancements that they want from the Barbarian trees), or a Blood of Vol Paladin majoring in either Knight of the Chalice or Vistani, or a Ranger swapping between daggers and thrown daggers mixing and matching Vistani with Deepwood stalker. There are plenty of more possibilities that simply do not exist currently on live.

The majority of the options that Vistani grants come only when thought of not as a way to supplement a build you already know about but to use as the basis of a new build. In order to get that sort of backbone type tree it basically has to specialize in something heavily instead of having some bonuses to all play styles like Harper Agent does. Perception wise, I get the confusion over the term "Universal" being applied to a tree that gives bonuses to two niche weapon types but what it accomplishes is being a step in the direction of slowly building out the number of types of builds that are available instead of simply supplementing the ones people are already accustomed to playing and thinking about.
yes but universal trees are the ultimate complimentary tree due to how anyone can access them.

Please make it specific which cores and abilities only function with daggers since it sounds like one can have deflect arrows while holding a falchion.

I suggest you make the vistani effect work with kukris and short swords (thrower side is only daggers, fine). Or at least make more stuff functional with light weapons.

The thrower stuff is weak compared to ANT, 10K and shuriken expertise.

best named throwing daggers are Cormyrian spellplague right now.

[HuneyMunster]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?

I don't find the +1 wis and +1 cha an issue as both are great for divines. Its more the fact there is no Bond option for +1 wis to effectively make its +2.

Also, need to take into account that many favored Souls may wish to choose Cha as their main stat. In which case Aasimar will maybe be less attractive for those builds.

The only other alternative is +2 wis and +2 cha and reduce their builds points by -2.

[Silverleafeon]

Prefer to ultimately have several (4ish) independent trees someday.

Be aware that Shrunken builds are considered by some as top tier end game dps.
Also, Druid casters are dependent upon Shirdai as the ED was primary created for Druids and Rangers.

[jakeelala]

Prefer to ultimately have several (4ish) independent trees someday.

Be aware that Shrunken builds are considered by some as top tier end game dps.
Also, Druid casters are dependent upon Shirdai as the ED was primary created for Druids and Rangers.

all properly built, geared, optimized and played builds should be top tier DPS. That's the whole point (for DPS builds).

[Arkat]

I don't find the +1 wis and +1 cha an issue as both are great for divines. Its more the fact there is no Bond option for +1 wis to effectively make its +2.

Also, need to take into account that many favored Souls may wish to choose Cha as their main stat. In which case Aasimar will maybe be less attractive for those builds.

The only other alternative is +2 wis and +2 cha and reduce their builds points by -2.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/490207-U36-Patch-3-First-Preview-Release-Notes?p=6025031&viewfull=1#post6025031

[Equatis]

Ah giggidy giggidy I hope this to be true! (...and remain so when it goes Live!)I went back to Lammania today since I never tried to use swords, this is possible, BUT only if you cosmetic the swords with a mirror of glamour and place those cosmetics in your cosmetic weapon slots AND then equip daggers. Since the daggers will appear to be swords in your hands. Unfortunately it does not work with equipped swords as you will see the normal current in game animations.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Dragonborn's Stunning Blow animation, while more bodily involved than other races', has the same total animation time and same hit detection/timing as everyone else's.

I have about 30 guildies that would debate that comment. It very well maybe that "on paper" it is the same. but as witnessed by more than a few, it "looks" borked and had delays. but then trip has a wonderful delay to it as well so.... The "Game's afoot" or rather a head in this case. Still felt so clunky I wont use again for melee.

Thanks for the response sir. Muchly appreciated.

[MarDeRoam]

Just some screenshots of the Scarecrow hireling
https://i.imgur.com/td8ZzRV.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/dr4r0nf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/j1MoUMG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/bewgq4N.jpg

[Carpone]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?
Excellent proposal.

[SpardaX]

Just some screenshots of the Scarecrow hireling

Do we know what kind of hireling it actually is yet? Like, class?

I think it looks amazing, but I'm going to be at least slightly disappointed if it's a fighter. Considering every single other gold seal perma hireling (other than that one level 3 cleric) is a fighter.

[Qhualor]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?

suggest keeping it +1/+1 because Aasimar. no bonus in Cha just doesn't make sense. if players are worried about it being uneven than there is gear, tomes, enhancements, feats, racial past lives etc that can even it out. I have read the concerns. maybe I'm not seeing what they are saying.

I had trouble in the past trying to figure out a good race to go with Swashbuckler (already had plans with most other races) I had planned on doing one day and I think Aasimar is it. no bonus to Cha just pushes this race to the side for me.

[Niminae]

A new gold seal hireling sounds interesting.
Lvl 10 & 30 are good ranges to place them at.
Hopefully they are small enough to move thru doors (which is a problem with the owlbears).

Lvl 10 is a good choice. Right in the middle of Lvl 3Eilieri and the Lvl 17-but-can-ruin-your-BB-since-it-can-be-summoned-at-Lvl-15 Owlbear.

Lvl 30 is almost certainly a horrible choice, since hirelings do not scale well and are almost completely useless in epic levels. There's been no hints that I've seen of any work on Hireling AI for U36 Patch 3 or Ravenloft, so the Lvl 30 Scarecrow contract is just going to fill a bank slot forever and remain unused.

[blerkington]

Happy to see +2 WIS being considered for aasimar, although an option that allows you to choose between +1/+1 or +2 in WIS or CHA might be more useful.

Would also like to echo the suggestion that we not be given a level 30 hireling. In a game where constant reincarnation is being so heavily incentivised over play at cap, why even bother. Mid epic levels maybe, but with the game the way it is now two mid points in the heroic levels would probably be better.

It's like the people making these decisions have no understanding at all of how their design decisions affect player behaviour or the game itself.

Sure, give us a hireling for play at cap, which hardly anyone does anymore and is likely to be useless above normal anyway, and fret about whether aasimar will make warlocks even more commonplace and overpowered when the damage has already well and truly been done (and the sales have been made).

Seriously ...

[Tlorrd]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?

Please go with +2 Wis. Thx.

[Captain_Wizbang]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?

Maybe a choice at creation w/ an affiliate bonus @ trees.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

fallen aasimar seems REALLY strong for dps and they have a choice to +10% hp which is weird because dwarves and warforged dont have anything close to that level of power for hp and are supposed to be con based races.

i mean it doesnt come as any surprise that the new shiny is much stronger to push sales, i just hope they dont look like total ****.

cause 5% dstrike, 10 mp, and racial positive healing...if i were playing this game and there was an endgame id be playing this race for sure.

[KoobTheProud]

I don't find the +1 wis and +1 cha an issue as both are great for divines. Its more the fact there is no Bond option for +1 wis to effectively make its +2.

Also, need to take into account that many favored Souls may wish to choose Cha as their main stat. In which case Aasimar will maybe be less attractive for those builds.

The only other alternative is +2 wis and +2 cha and reduce their builds points by -2.

+2 Wis/+2 Cha and reduce build points by 4, like Drow. They'd actually be better than Drow because they could have full Con alongside 20 Wis or Cha.

[edrein]

fallen aasimar seems REALLY strong for dps and they have a choice to +10% hp which is weird because dwarves and warforged dont have anything close to that level of power for hp and are supposed to be con based races.

i mean it doesnt come as any surprise that the new shiny is much stronger to push sales, i just hope they dont look like total ****.

cause 5% dstrike, 10 mp, and racial positive healing...if i were playing this game and there was an endgame id be playing this race for sure.

Fallen does not have a choice for 10% HP. That is protector. 5% doublestrike and 10MP come at a cost, these aren't free. They are an option for building your character not a freebie, let's not get something nice absolutely destroyed by misreading information or jumping the gun.

[Silverleafeon]

Lvl 10 is a good choice. Right in the middle of Lvl 3Eilieri and the Lvl 17-but-can-ruin-your-BB-since-it-can-be-summoned-at-Lvl-15 Owlbear.

Agreed, would be nice to find out if it was Gold Seal or not?
EI can you summon thus at level 8, but it counts as 10?


Lvl 30 is almost certainly a horrible choice, since hirelings do not scale well and are almost completely useless in epic levels. There's been no hints that I've seen of any work on Hireling AI for U36 Patch 3 or Ravenloft, so the Lvl 30 Scarecrow contract is just going to fill a bank slot forever and remain unused.

Again, is this a gold seal hire, meaning one can summon it at level 28, even though its a level 30?
In a way that would grant more usage for leveling up that last million xp, while confusing a few folks.


As far as I can tell, Hiring UI is a time consuming per each character type of thing although there is a certain amount of overall help it can get.
Which means, hey I don't know, it could think fine and then again...

A simple design with high defense, way too much hit points, and a single swing your arms slow but very big attack could profit.

It does seem so much better than the owlbears who consistently had to be called to teleport past a great many doorways, but then again...

Thousands of hit points might help a bit, maybe 100+ healing amp, 200+ ac, 150 prr, 100 mmr...


Regardless, the Devs do need to address an issue that I encountered that seems to affect summons and possibly hires ~ offensive bonuses where not applying last I checked.
Such as the +X melee power per epic level ect...

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Fallen does not have a choice for 10% HP. That is protector. 5% doublestrike and 10MP come at a cost, these aren't free. They are an option for building your character not a freebie, let's not get something nice absolutely destroyed by misreading information or jumping the gun.

i know that is protector thats why i mentioned its a different choice.

the first 10 ap in a racial tree are essentially free. sure the 5% dstrike is a limited buff which makes it less appealing but as far as benefits fallen have all the time they have vulnerability on hit, 10 mp, quickdraw feat which essentially replaces the lack of a human bonus feat, and a couple points of str which is a pretty solid combination. if the dstrike boost works simultaneously with action boosts (its obviously going to) that means in reaper you can have +35% dstrike and +30% alacrity at the same time which is 5% more dstrike and only 10mp less than a wf version of whatever build while also potentially giving them the ability to use esos on bosses whereas a wf wouldnt (wf would want to use a vulnerability stacking weapon whereas a fallen could use a vulnerability stacking item to get to 20 stacks right off the bat and use esos and their racial to finish the fight with +1 crit multiplier over a falc and maintain vulnerability stacks with their racial).

to be clear, this isnt something nice, this is something too nice designed to push sales like always. theres no misreading or gun jumping here, and theres also no chance that aasimar will be nerfed because once again, its all about the money. it does occur to me now that theres no point in introducing clearly unbalanced racial trees into the game when that is obviously unhealthy for the game in favor of money when there is no one left to buy the power creep. meh.

[The_Human_Cypher]

Do we know what kind of hireling it actually is yet? Like, class?

I think it looks amazing, but I'm going to be at least slightly disappointed if it's a fighter. Considering every single other gold seal perma hireling (other than that one level 3 cleric) is a fighter.

The Scarecrow will be a Level 10/Level 30 Fighter hireling.

[PermaBanned]

Lvl 10 is a good choice. Right in the middle of Lvl 3Eilieri and the Lvl 17-but-can-ruin-your-BB-since-it-can-be-summoned-at-Lvl-15 Owlbear.

Lvl 30 is almost certainly a horrible choice, since hirelings do not scale well and are almost completely useless in epic levels. There's been no hints that I've seen of any work on Hireling AI for U36 Patch 3 or Ravenloft, so the Lvl 30 Scarecrow contract is just going to fill a bank slot forever and remain unused.
Agreed on both counts. I'm thinking the Epic Hireling should be a Gold Seal @ min level 28 /summonable @ 26.

Scarecrow-> Owlbear -> Panther -> Owlbear -> Scarecrow looks like a good progression IMO.

[edrein]

i know that is protector thats why i mentioned its a different choice.

the first 10 ap in a racial tree are essentially free. sure the 5% dstrike is a limited buff which makes it less appealing but as far as benefits fallen have all the time they have vulnerability on hit, 10 mp, quickdraw feat which essentially replaces the lack of a human bonus feat, and a couple points of str which is a pretty solid combination. if the dstrike boost works simultaneously with action boosts (its obviously going to) that means in reaper you can have +35% dstrike and +30% alacrity at the same time which is 5% more dstrike and only 10mp less than a wf version of whatever build while also potentially giving them the ability to use esos on bosses whereas a wf wouldnt (wf would want to use a vulnerability stacking weapon whereas a fallen could use a vulnerability stacking item to get to 20 stacks right off the bat and use esos and their racial to finish the fight with +1 crit multiplier over a falc and maintain vulnerability stacks with their racial).

to be clear, this isnt something nice, this is something too nice designed to push sales like always. theres no misreading or gun jumping here, and theres also no chance that aasimar will be nerfed because once again, its all about the money. it does occur to me now that theres no point in introducing clearly unbalanced racial trees into the game when that is obviously unhealthy for the game in favor of money when there is no one left to buy the power creep. meh.

The fact that neither the 10% HP nor the 10 melee power can be used with half the capstones for any given class is proof they are currently underpowered than overpowered. I'd say they've erred far too much on the side of caution. Atleast in the case of Fallen, there needs to be an on hit proc attached as well to make it worth dropping capstone bonuses for your build. Or negating key class features PM and druid, let alone the bleed over in epic feats/epic destinies such as Angellic form from EA, Avatar from Avatar, or even Construct Exemplar for any artificer aasimar.

If they want to keep the blanket exclusion, there needs to be an on hit/on crit proc for Fallen as +10MP and 1 vulnerability stack does not remotely compare to +3 saves, 10% HP (which stacks exclusively with Paladin's defender stance's typed bonus), and +10PRR/MRR. Nor is +10MP really all that powerful when you consider the investment you spend to get it (even with the 10 'free' racial AP from racial lives), if I want +10MP for practically nothing I could put a single point in Henshin Mystic.

[Rykka]

This is why it's a bad idea for devs to gossip too much about upcoming changes that are not yet set in stone*. Because invariably, "speculated about the possibility of adding feature X someday" - no matter how tentatively expressed nor how many disclaimers put on it - eventually morphs into "OMG WE WERE PROMISED FEATURE X AND IT'S NOT HERE YOU LIED TO US!!1!" Aka the Molyneaux Effect. :rolleyes:

The flip side to that is: don't take anything you read on the forums as gospel until it shows up on Lamannia at least.

*HA! See what I did there?

I didn't think Vistani was going to be a Wis combat tree because they never said it would be. But I was surprised that Cordo said in this thread that they weren't working on a tree that was. Even though the devs never said that either, it just seemed like something that would be in the works. In any case, when FVS got Wis combat, the Dev gossip was done.

What happened next was Players that really wanted their Wis Monks and Wis Rangers to shoot into FotM territory and could not get that with FVS, they expected a Harper like Wis focus in Vistani. Even though any cursory examination of Vistani lore wouldn't support it.

[EllisDee37]

suggest keeping it +1/+1 because Aasimar. no bonus in Cha just doesn't make sense. if players are worried about it being uneven than there is gear, tomes, enhancements, feats, racial past lives etc that can even it out. I have read the concerns. maybe I'm not seeing what they are saying.

I had trouble in the past trying to figure out a good race to go with Swashbuckler (already had plans with most other races) I had planned on doing one day and I think Aasimar is it. no bonus to Cha just pushes this race to the side for me.Swashbucklers already have two non-iconic races to choose from if they want bonus cha.


Also @Steelstar if you or another dev could provide some feedback/commentary to the overwhelming responses from the community about it being time for WIS to hit and damage to be available since every other stat has been compensated for in some fashion, I know we would all greatly appreciate it. Aasimar, or the iconic version, seem like a great opportunity to introduce this option to the players. Thank you.They addressed it last update by giving it to favored souls. Based on dev posts, they consider this "Mission Accomplished."

[DeltaBravo]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?
Yes please..

I dont understand what +1 Cha have to do with the protector bond though..
So that one I think sould give either another stat OR give PRR / AC ?

Protector


+1 Charisma
+1 to Will Saving Throws

[Hugoleo]

Yes please..

Dude, you have enough wisdom already.

[SeveredSteel]

except for wolf druids thats also not what im talking about at all, im talking about melee dps builds.
Isn't wolf a melee dps build? So are trees. They're actually the highest melee dps builds in the game. not even close.

[Banegrivm]

We're strongly considering shifting the base starting attributes of Aasimar to +2 Wisdom (from the current +1WIS/+1CHA). The Bond feats and other associated bonuses would otherwise remain the same.

Thoughts?

Honestly? I think you should just stick to PnP.

[PermaBanned]

Isn't wolf a melee dps build? So are trees. They're actually the highest melee dps builds in the game. not even close.
Might be time to start adding a "for now" when talking about Melee Wolf capabilities. Looking back at how the Devs tend to handle things which are often cited as OP or otherwise complained about *cough*Warlock*cough* I'm expecting Wolves to be severly neutered when a Druid pass happens. Anyone still building/playing Broken Wolves should be expecting a nerf hammering in the post Ravenloft nearish future is my best guess.

[Qhualor]

Swashbucklers already have two non-iconic races to choose from if they want bonus cha.

yes there is, but I was giving my opinion of how I would treat the race. I play more for synergy mixed with flavor and like I said, most other races are already planned out. if you look at 3.5 and 5E Aasimar get +1 or +2 to Cha. I get that players want another choice besides Deep Gnome for +2 Wis, but for PnP reasons, it doesn't make sense without the bonus to Cha. not that I am saying they should get +2 Wis and +1/+2 Cha with or without other stat penalties to offset the increase, but because the choice between +1/+1 or just +2 Wis is done for the balance reasons I suspect.

[HuneyMunster]

For the iconic version, +2 Wis AND +2 Cha would seem appropriate. This would further my idea that the iconic Aasimar should be more focused on turning/destroying undead and being more "castery" than the non-iconic Aasimar which seems to be somewhat focused on melee ability. Obviously, the iconic racial tree would have to reflect my suggested differences.

Currently there is already an iconic Cleric and iconic Paladin, so what would the starting race be for iconic Aasimar?

Unless I'm mistaken Aasimar favored classes are Paladin and Sorcerer.

I think it may still be true that only the base classes that are f2p are only available for iconics so people don't have to purchase a class and race at same time.

So it will more likely be Sorcerer as iconic in which case the non-iconic race should be changed to +2 Wisdom so wisdom build don't require a Lesser +1 to play +2 wisdom race. Or will there be another Paladin iconic? Lesser +1 is the same again for those that are looking for a +2 Wisdom race.

[MarDeRoam]

The Scarecrow will be a Level 10/Level 30 Fighter hireling.
There were no stats or class on the Scarecrow visible, but it might have been mentioned somewhere else?
This is the current tooltip description:
https://i.imgur.com/4P0QgqL.jpg

[Thar]

Or Players need to realize that not everything the devs say is written in stone.

You mean we're not getting racial pre trees like elf for everyone? Like the Dwarven defender?

We're not getting a crafting system that can pull paralyzing off a weapon and put it on another?

We're not getting the Aunorch desert (is that raid still on the list live?)

[JOTMON]

The Scarecrow Hirelings have not been statted. They are currently level 1 and level 17 Owlbear Fighters.
[/LIST]
[/LIST]

https://i.imgur.com/4P0QgqL.jpg


is there any plausible reason why hirelings cant be BTA..
Cluttering every alt toon with BTC copies is not necessary,

Please change all the hirelings retroactively from BTC to BTA.

Its just compounding the inventory problems we are already facing.


Would really prefer to see an inventory tab based on the cuti-pet system that holds all the hirelings across the account.. the DDO store hireling folder is inadequate and also BTC.

[Rys]

Would really prefer to see an inventory tab based on the cuti-pet system that holds all the hirelings across the account.. the DDO store hireling folder is inadequate and also BTC.

And cosmetics.

[SerPounce]

Cosmetics are all BtA or unbound right? So you can store them on mules. Not the most elegant solution sure, but it's not really like you're forced to fill up your character bank with them. I have a mule with "cosmetic" in the name where I store them all (I have a bunch of similar mules for all kinds of stuff). A cosmetic system like the pet system would be great, but everything has trade offs. There's a lot of other stuff that would be more valuable to me.

I agree that the biggest hireling folder is oddly small (why?), but it does the basic job. 20 slots gives you enough room for your gold seals and the most used healer types (there are some levels where the healers suck, so you're better off using the pervious level a bit longer. It will get all the tighter with the new gold seals. In lieu of a whole new system at least a bigger folder would be nice.

[The_Human_Cypher]

There were no stats or class on the Scarecrow visible, but it might have been mentioned somewhere else?
This is the current tooltip description:
https://i.imgur.com/4P0QgqL.jpg

From the Lamannia Release Notes:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/490207-U36-Patch-3-First-Preview-Release-Notes

"Permanent Gold Seal Hirelings: Scarecrow: Two new Permanent Gold Seal Hirelings which will be available in select (but not all) Ravenloft Expansion bundles. Scarecrow Hirelings will have variants at the following levels:

Level 10
Level 30"

[JOTMON]

Cosmetics are all BtA or unbound right? So you can store them on mules. Not the most elegant solution sure, but it's not really like you're forced to fill up your character bank with them. I have a mule with "cosmetic" in the name where I store them all (I have a bunch of similar mules for all kinds of stuff). A cosmetic system like the pet system would be great, but everything has trade offs. There's a lot of other stuff that would be more valuable to me.

I agree that the biggest hireling folder is oddly small (why?), but it does the basic job. 20 slots gives you enough room for your gold seals and the most used healer types (there are some levels where the healers suck, so you're better off using the pervious level a bit longer. It will get all the tighter with the new gold seals. In lieu of a whole new system at least a bigger folder would be nice.

No, not all cosmetics.. things like the iconic cosmetics are BTC.

I have done the same thing by creating an alt packmule cosmetic holder toon.. doesn't make it any less of a poor mechanic.

Hireling folders are BTC and definitely too small.. yet another poor system. and still ends up shifting stuff to alt mules..


The existing storage systems are antiquated and its only getting worse.

Instead of helping players by consolidating and organizing with useful management tools like the AH interface gives we have to resort to scattering our stuff across alts and whatever other alt sources to squirrel away pieces across multiple storage area's.

[MarDeRoam]

From the Lamannia Release Notes:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/490207-U36-Patch-3-First-Preview-Release-Notes

"Permanent Gold Seal Hirelings: Scarecrow: Two new Permanent Gold Seal Hirelings which will be available in select (but not all) Ravenloft Expansion bundles. Scarecrow Hirelings will have variants at the following levels:

Level 10
Level 30"

So it doesn't say fighter anywhere? Or was it maybe mentioned by Cordovan on one of his livestreams?

[Niminae]

https://i.imgur.com/4P0QgqL.jpg


is there any plausible reason why hirelings cant be BTA..
Cluttering every alt toon with BTC copies is not necessary,

Please change all the hirelings retroactively from BTC to BTA.

Its just compounding the inventory problems we are already facing.

Eilieri Thistledown is BtA. She comes in a $10 pack, so you'd think that the Owlbears, Lionesses, and now Scarecrows and such in more expensive expansions would have at least the same if not greater utility, and bind status is certainly a large part of their utility.


So it doesn't say fighter anywhere? Or was it maybe mentioned by Cordovan on one of his livestreams?


Typically you have to target the hire and hit 'z' to examine it to see that it is called a "level 10 Fighter" or whatever.

[MarDeRoam]

Typically you have to target the hire and hit 'z' to examine it to see that it is called a "level 10 Fighter" or whatever.

Ah, roger that. I'll try to log in on Lama next week when it's back up and see if examination has info.

[Dungeoner49]

A Knife Throwing enhancement tree? Now we can have knife throwing contests and Five Finger Fillet with the Traveling Troubadors! I can already taste the knife puns :D

[Arkat]

Currently there is already an iconic Cleric and iconic Paladin, so what would the starting race be for iconic Aasimar?

Unless I'm mistaken Aasimar favored classes are Paladin and Sorcerer.

I think it may still be true that only the base classes that are f2p are only available for iconics so people don't have to purchase a class and race at same time.

So it will more likely be Sorcerer as iconic in which case the non-iconic race should be changed to +2 Wisdom so wisdom build don't require a Lesser +1 to play +2 wisdom race. Or will there be another Paladin iconic? Lesser +1 is the same again for those that are looking for a +2 Wisdom race.

Supposedly, the Iconic Aasimar is going to be called a "Scourge." I didn't know what that was so I Googled it. Apparently it is from 5th Edition D&D and it's kinda like a path. It's supposed to be a "Scourge of Undead" or an enemy of the undead.

I doubt it'll be a Sorc. I agree that since other iconics are Cleric and Paladin, a Scourge shouldn't be so maybe it'll be a FvS? I realize FvS is not a core class but a Sorc just doesn't make sense to me. Sorcs aren't really melee types and I seem to recall the Scourge from 5th Edition is sort of a melee type (yeah I know...both Aasimar seemingly will be melee-favored which I think is dumb).

Anyway, I'm curious to see what they come up with.

[edrein]

Supposedly, the Iconic Aasimar is going to be called a "Scourge." I didn't know what that was so I Googled it. Apparently it is from 5th Edition D&D and it's kinda like a path. It's supposed to be a "Scourge of Undead" or an enemy of the undead.

I doubt it'll be a Sorc. I agree that since other iconics are Cleric and Paladin, a Scourge shouldn't be so maybe it'll be a FvS? I realize FvS is not a core class but a Sorc just doesn't make sense to me. Sorcs aren't really melee types and I seem to recall the Scourge from 5th Edition is sort of a melee type (yeah I know...both Aasimar seemingly will be melee-favored which I think is dumb).

Anyway, I'm curious to see what they come up with.

People keep bringing up an iconic, did the devs confirm one or something? It would explain why scourge is missing from base aasimar, but there hasn't been any official written information on an iconic.

[The_Human_Cypher]

So it doesn't say fighter anywhere? Or was it maybe mentioned by Cordovan on one of his livestreams?

The DDO Wiki doesn't mention a class for the Scarecrow hireling, but I believe that Fighter was mentioned somewhere.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Scarecrow

[cru121]

Typically you have to target the hire and hit 'z' to examine it to see that it is called a "level 10 Fighter" or whatever.

On Lamannia, hirelings were not yet statted (see known issues somewhere). The level 10 scarecrow had 45 hp. It also had no special commands. Upon examining it said something like level 1 owlbear.

[Paladin_of_Power]

People keep bringing up an iconic, did the devs confirm one or something? It would explain why scourge is missing from base aasimar, but there hasn't been any official written information on an iconic.

Come on now, this is the forums. Turning hopes and supposition into confirmation is what they do here. Look how well it worked out for Wisdom ........ oh nevermind.

[blerkington]

People keep bringing up an iconic, did the devs confirm one or something? It would explain why scourge is missing from base aasimar, but there hasn't been any official written information on an iconic.

There's been some dev hinting earlier in this thread, but nothing concrete.

Thanks.

[Fenix93]

For the iconic version, +2 Wis AND +2 Cha would seem appropriate. This would further my idea that the iconic Aasimar should be more focused on turning/destroying undead and being more "castery" than the non-iconic Aasimar which seems to be somewhat focused on melee ability. Obviously, the iconic racial tree would have to reflect my suggested differences.I do not really believe that the iconic version is another Aasimar ... in the logic of the opposite of Aasimar and Theafling, which is the demonic version of Aasimar, and since there are still Ftp classes, Sorcerer, Ranger, Barbarian and Bardo , Theafling for me I see it as a Sorcerer, who stands by itself ... and to see if it will be so ... but still to see if the Devs are going to invest further resources for other "iconic Races".

[edrein]

I do not really believe that the iconic version is another Aasimar ... in the logic of the opposite of Aasimar and Theafling, which is the demonic version of Aasimar, and since there are still Ftp classes, Sorcerer, Ranger, Barbarian and Bardo , Theafling for me I see it as a Sorcerer, who stands by itself ... and to see if it will be so ... but still to see if the Devs are going to invest further resources for other "iconic Races".

Aasimar Iconic could have a few interesting routes; but off the top of my head and with how the devs act/feel about certain classes I doubt they'd happen.

One could be a celestial pact warlock; with the automatic level 1 warlock giving them the singular option of a celestial pact that works with their bond. Let's assume their racial tree would be similar to Enlightened Spirit in theme.
Two could be a sorcerer as previously discussed, though like warlock this class isn't innately celestial/divine enough for the devs and their feelings. However, their racial tree could work similar to a Light/Alignment styled Savant in a similar vein to the elemental savants.
Three and the most likely candidate for being a non-used iconic would be a favored soul. I'm not sure what they could really add here as Aasimar racial abilities from tabletop SLA wise wouldn't translate to DDO. I'd suspect this tree would be something similar to Divine Disciple in adding a few SLAs and synergies that current Angel of Vengeance lacks and could be supplemented by.
Fourth is the obvious favorite choice of the devs, that'd be a paladin. Although we've already got Protector for the paladin synergy, so who knows how this would go.

[Burdock]

Aasimar Iconic could have a few interesting routes; but off the top of my head and with how the devs act/feel about certain classes I doubt they'd happen.

One could be a celestial pact warlock; with the automatic level 1 warlock giving them the singular option of a celestial pact that works with their bond. Let's assume their racial tree would be similar to Enlightened Spirit in theme.
Two could be a sorcerer as previously discussed, though like warlock this class isn't innately celestial/divine enough for the devs and their feelings. However, their racial tree could work similar to a Light/Alignment styled Savant in a similar vein to the elemental savants.
Three and the most likely candidate for being a non-used iconic would be a favored soul. I'm not sure what they could really add here as Aasimar racial abilities from tabletop SLA wise wouldn't translate to DDO. I'd suspect this tree would be something similar to Divine Disciple in adding a few SLAs and synergies that current Angel of Vengeance lacks and could be supplemented by.
Fourth is the obvious favorite choice of the devs, that'd be a paladin. Although we've already got Protector for the paladin synergy, so who knows how this would go.

Can someone please tell me - Will we be able to create 1st Level Characters and start actually IN Ravenloft (for the entire experience?) What will the integration be like? Please dont have that only MAX level characters can participate!!

[edrein]

Can someone please tell me - Will we be able to create 1st Level Characters and start actually IN Ravenloft (for the entire experience?) What will the integration be like? Please dont have that only MAX level characters can participate!!

Ravenloft is level 10 and level 30, the devs however have stated they have plans for a special veteran status 10 character creation option for those who want to immediately jump into Ravenloft.

[JOTMON]

Can someone please tell me - Will we be able to create 1st Level Characters and start actually IN Ravenloft (for the entire experience?) What will the integration be like? Please dont have that only MAX level characters can participate!!

Not sure if you would actually start in Ravenloft, but there will be an 'option' to attain a third tier of Veteran status and level a new toon to 10 (not existing toons).
Ravenloft is set for player levels 10 and 30.

some preliminary info here..
http://ddowiki.com/page/Mists_of_Ravenloft
~New level 10 Veteran Status

no details on how it will be attainable, but likely 5k favor and DDO store by guessing at the current Veteran status options.
http://ddowiki.com/page/Veteran_Status

[Silverleafeon]

The scarecrow could have guard features, that way it would always function even if it did not properly attack.
In fact, massive hit points, guard features that scaled with difficulty and zero attack could work effectively thereby eliminating AI problems.
{If not now, consider for future hire?}


Adding an iconic is the sort of thing that one might expect inside an expansion.
It would certain increase the content, which important as we do expect lots of goodies to tempt us to buy.

I would lean towards making the kobold iconic race Sorcerer instead of Aasimar.
That seems to leave Favored Soul as a possibly choice or Warlock?
I realize it may be awhile before we get Kobold, but it will also be awhile before we get Sorcerer pass.

[Xgya]

The scarecrow could have guard features, that way it would always function even if it did not properly attack.
In fact, massive hit points, guard features that scaled with difficulty and zero attack could work effectively thereby eliminating AI problems.
{If not now, consider for future hire?}

Oh, like a reverse Voodoo Doll!

You take damage, the scarecrow takes a portion, or even all of it for you. Shield Other!

[Silverleafeon]

Oh, like a reverse Voodoo Doll!

You take damage, the scarecrow takes a portion, or even all of it for you. Shield Other!

Excellent idea.

The UI would be so simple: follow party member.

[Saekee]

The Scarecrow will be a Level 10/Level 30 Fighter hireling.

I feel like it should be a barb or something more akin to scarecrows lore-wise.

Well, whatever scarecrows are supposed to be...

Constructs? Material: straw. DR 5/20 against piercing and ranged weapons, fire vulnerability
Has Fearsome defense, immune to fear, Intimitank, regenerates...

[Vulkoorex]

Can we get a cosmetic head gear with the pre-order of Ravenloft?

Something like...
+1 Profane bonus to all charisma based skills
+2 Profane bonus to saving throws against poison

Or

+1 Profane bonus to all skills
+4 Profane bonus to saving throws against poison

:p

[Fenix93]

Aasimar Iconic could have a few interesting routes; but off the top of my head and with how the devs act/feel about certain classes I doubt they'd happen.

One could be a celestial pact warlock; with the automatic level 1 warlock giving them the singular option of a celestial pact that works with their bond. Let's assume their racial tree would be similar to Enlightened Spirit in theme.
Two could be a sorcerer as previously discussed, though like warlock this class isn't innately celestial/divine enough for the devs and their feelings. However, their racial tree could work similar to a Light/Alignment styled Savant in a similar vein to the elemental savants.
Three and the most likely candidate for being a non-used iconic would be a favored soul. I'm not sure what they could really add here as Aasimar racial abilities from tabletop SLA wise wouldn't translate to DDO. I'd suspect this tree would be something similar to Divine Disciple in adding a few SLAs and synergies that current Angel of Vengeance lacks and could be supplemented by.
Fourth is the obvious favorite choice of the devs, that'd be a paladin. Although we've already got Protector for the paladin synergy, so who knows how this would go.

I said theafling is not why I played NWN2 and is an Aasimar subrace, but because it seems to me the most logical choice they can take and then, the base of iconics is only FtP classes can not make an iconic Monk or Worloak is not possible to stop us creating unnecessary fantasies, if you do not like Theaflig to say it, I generally love all breeds even though I prefer elves mostly but do not create unnecessary fantasies? when it is time to announce another iconic one will be seen but until then we would not know anything, and any assumption that will be said will not make false voices and misguided thoughts in people.

[edrein]

I said theafling is not why I played NWN2 and is an Aasimar subrace, but because it seems to me the most logical choice they can take and then, the base of iconics is only FtP classes can not make an iconic Monk or Worloak is not possible to stop us creating unnecessary fantasies, if you do not like Theaflig to say it, I generally love all breeds even though I prefer elves mostly but do not create unnecessary fantasies? when it is time to announce another iconic one will be seen but until then we would not know anything, and any assumption that will be said will not make false voices and misguided thoughts in people.

Iconic Monk would be best left off the table until we get around to Psionics and Kalashtar. As that's literally their lore appropriate class (being a monk that is), while their favored class is psion. That being said they could easily sway the racial bonuses to be innate and both in the racial tree to make this be a great monk tree fitting their whole lore theme.