New player 14 Fighter 6 Ranger for full Strength 2WF ?

[Frumpyster]

I want to build a low budget 2WF on a 28 pt build without using 17 dexterity for Two weapon Fighting. Heavy armor Kensai tweaks and options in fighter Stalwart to add more strength or constitution, 20% HP made this option more appealing to me.

Firstly, do i have to wait 6 levels ranger to get Greater Two Weapon Fighting feat?

And for curiosity sake will the core enhancement Graceful Death override strength to damage with dexterity to damage if i wanted to go further with the ranger levels?

Havent decided on weapon choice but looking at long swords or rapiers and will go with what ever i find at these low levels.

Human
17 Str
10 Dex
17 Con
8 int
8 wis
8 cha

Power Attack
Smashing Blow
Cleave
Great Cleave
Over sized Two Weapon Fighting
etc

I wanted to build a full Dex build at first but quickly noticed i wouldnt get the cleaves or smashing blow.
I like precision better than power attack but because it costs dex and i needed power attack anyways as prerequisite. Smashing Blow reduces targets fortication nicely too.

I wanted to say thanks to all the people who have made this forums so great to visit :cool:

[unbongwah]

Firstly, do i have to wait 6 levels ranger to get Greater Two Weapon Fighting feat?
You get ITWF free from rgr lvl 6 and GTWF free from rgr lvl 11. Note that if you stop at rgr lvl 6, you still need base DEX 17 to take the GTWF feat separately, so you're not really dodging that requirement with rgr 6 ftr 14 split, unfortunately.

Havent decided on weapon choice but looking at long swords or rapiers and will go with what ever i find at these low levels.
For TWF STR-based builds, khopeshes are always going to be your best option.

[Phil7]

This is build is a bit complicated and it requires high base Stats and most likely some stat tomes. As unbongwah already said you need a base 17 DEX for GTWF anyway and you could also use some INT for KTA, but that would complicate matters even more.

So I'm going to answer some of your questions and tell you my opinion on TWF + cleaves/PA and after that it's your decision.
Graceful Death and Tempest (2nd core enhancement) will use your DEX to hit and damage if it is higher, yes. But not with every weapon only for light weapons... and Khopeshes are not included.

Also Cleaves with TWF are fairly weak, their AoE burst damage is low and the same applies to Momentum Swing + Lay Waste. Also the range of these skills is lower compared to a THF weapon. Imo you are better off using Dance of Death and Precision on this build. That means your AoE damage would kick in at level 12+
Zerging and leveling on a TWF build is slower compared to THF + SWF.
PA benefits THF much more because of the double damage bonus so you might aswell drop it alltogether.

Now I see 2 choices for your specific build:
A) full STR using crafted Khopeshes, Stunning Blow and Trip which also benefits from Strong Defense (+6 STR). You will also need 17 base DEX for GTWF and can also take Precision.
B) full DEX build with 16 CON and 16 INT starting stats for KTA, using Scimitars (best dex-based twf weapon) and Precision which does not bother with Stunning Blow and Trip

Generally I strongly advise against Cleaves and PA on TWF builds that use Dance of Death. The only 2 TWF builds that should use Cleaves is unarmed monk and Assassin as far as I remember.

Also you mention Smashing Blow!? I'm not sure what that is, perhaps you mean Stunning Blow or Sundering Shot.
Oversized TWF is not a must-have feat. It is great at level 30 in LE+, but if you plan to play on easy difficulties then you can drop this feat.

Now if you ever consider a more aggresive option and want to max your DPS then I would suggest pure 20 Tempest ranger with Khopeshes, it has insane DPS and wins Evasion, but it's squishier.

[Fedora1]

Now I see 2 choices for your specific build:
A) full STR using crafted Khopeshes, Stunning Blow and Trip which also benefits from Strong Defense (+6 STR). You will also need 17 base DEX for GTWF and can also take Precision.
B) full DEX build with 16 CON and 16 INT starting stats for KTA, using Scimitars (best dex-based twf weapon) and Precision which does not bother with Stunning Blow and Trip


I agree with most of the points you made, and while I do not disagree with the quote above I want to point out that it's not likely the OP can do either of those with a low budget 28 point build. Full str +17 dex means a 10 con. Full dex, 16 int and 16 con isn't possible at all.

[Fedora1]

To do what you want to do you could possibly go deeper into ranger and less fighter, 14\6 might do it. If you go full DEX skip the PA and cleaves, for the reasons mentioned by Phil and use scimitars. For a STR build you could grab a khopesh proficiency at mid-higher level as there are some decent named longswords at L8+. Otherwise scimitars will work until you pick up khopesh. Rapiers are nice too, but I find slashing weapons more effective for most mobs vs piercing.

[Frumpyster]

Thank you for your replies very much appreciated :cool:

I was going to purchase extra content of the game but decided to try free to play level 20 to see if i will enjoy it first. I dont like being pigeon holed by tactics of game developers either and try to purchase content if i feel the game is worth playing. So i am building this 28 point character the best way i can minimalist style to start.

The two handed fighting is uninspired looking and cheap to watch while playing imo, although the easiest to build with aoe cleaves and crazy damage.

I meant to say Stunning Blow not Smashing Blow my bad, I tested it and the hit blows so i wont use it anyways opting for precision instead.

I was considering pure 20 ranger build but was looking for more survivability with the fighter and heavy armor.
Elf ranger would be an awesome build for DPS! I would have to address the squishiness of the build with added toughness, better equiptment and smarter playing tactics such as Greater Dragonmark of Shadows.

For a pure fighter heavy weapons have no dex to hit modifier option that i can see.
Min 3 levels of ranger gives me scimatar weapon proficiency and dex to hit and dex to damage i could then go 17 fighter pumping dex the rest of the way.
Elf would add some nice added dex and damage to scimitar weapon and +6 enchantment savies. No effective aoes with fighter though.

Looks like I have three very good options then:
Elf 3 Ranger 17 fighter (Maybe more ranger levels looks tempting)
Str 8
Dex 18
Con16
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 8

Human or Dwarf 20 Tempest Ranger Khopeshes
Str 16
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 8

Elf 20 Tempest Ranger Scimitars
Str 8
Dex 18
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 8

Lack of aoe for 2WF is disappointing i have to say. If i can tank w/o aoes and kill 1 at a time really fast might be ok.

Leaning towards Elf 20 Tempest Ranger Scimitars atm. I will give it some more thought though.

If there are any other things to consider i would appreciate some further advice :)

[C-Dog]

Note that a lot of advice assumes you're going on to Epic (20+) Levels - if that's not the case, the bar will simply not be so high, and you can get away w/ some "flavor" in your build, not worry about 100% maxing DPS/etc. Makes it harder for a newer player, but just saying that there is more wiggle room if that's the case.


Also Cleaves with TWF are fairly weak... (etc. etc.)
While true, Cleaves still are better than no cleaves, and they are one of the only real AoE most melee can get (depending). They are indeed MUCH less effective than on a 2HF, but are far from useless. If that's the flavor you want, and you understand it's not "optimal DPS", then go for it.

(The real question is "If you don't take PA/Cleave/Great Cleave, could you take something much/any better?" And the answer is - probably "some", but not without losing that AoE attack. )


For TWF STR-based builds, khopeshes are always going to be your best option.
Listen to Ung', he knows that of which he speaks.

Unless it's purely "for flavor" (i.e. it just looks/sounds so cool!), drop the "oversized", go w/ Khopeshes. Haunt the AH for some decent droploot at a good price, shouldn't be hard to find something for Heroics.


You get ITWF free from rgr lvl 6 and GTWF free from rgr lvl 11. Note that if you stop at rgr lvl 6, you still need base DEX 17 to take the GTWF feat separately, so you're not really dodging that requirement with rgr 6 ftr 14 split, unfortunately.
@ OP - I'm guessing that you're leaning toward Fighter for the extra Feats (a habit from building characters on tabletop). But strong D&D builds are not (always) strong DDO builds.

In DDO, Feats are important, but the Enhancements are equally or more so. So probably going mostly Ranger (to bypass that Dex requirement for GTWF) is the key to the build you want. It just feeds into 2WF so well.

Here's a classic example, Str-build, an almost pure Ranger who can also do Traps. Very successful/popular build.

o https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423116-Tempest-Trapmonkey-for-new-players?p=5072817&viewfull=1#post5072817

You could drop PBS/Dodge/Ranged Crit and take your Cleave chain. If you don't want to bother w/ Traps, drop Int and take 16 Con, worry only about Concentration, Search, (Spot?) & UMD.



Also - don't forget that if you can scrape together 1750 favor, you'll get a +2 (Dex?) Tome (plus 32 pt Builds for future characters). Not possible for F2P w/o buying some packs, but just mentioning it as a possible long-term goal (and by Level 25 or so, when you'd need it, you should have ample DDO Pts to have bought a couple/few good ones on sale.)

o http://ddowiki.com/page/Favor#Total_Favor

[unbongwah]

Leaning towards Elf 20 Tempest Ranger Scimitars atm.
In that case, see my elven ranger thread, in particular the Shadow Tempest build.

[Frumpyster]

In that case, see my elven ranger thread, in particular the Shadow Tempest build.

Shadow Tempest (U32)
Ranger 20
True Neutral Elf


Stats
28pt 32pt Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 8 8 4: DEX
Dexterity 20 20 8: DEX
Constitution 12 14 12: DEX
Intelligence 14 14 16: DEX
Wisdom 8 8 20: DEX
Charisma 8 8 24: DEX
28: DEX

Skills
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Concent 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Heal 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Search 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Spot 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Hide 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Move Si 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 23
Spellcr 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
UMD 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Tumble 1 1
------------------------------------------------------------
32 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8


Feats

1 : Precision
1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
3 : Dodge
5 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant
6 : Mobility OR Point Blank Shot
9 : Improved Critical: Slashing
10 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
12 : Least Dragonmark: Shadow
15 : Quicken Spell
15 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Construct
18 : Empower Healing Spell
20 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Elemental OR Human
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Two Weapon Defense OR Improved Critical: Ranged
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: First Blood OR Elusive Target OR Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Embodiment of Law OR Deific Warding
30 Epic : Blinding Speed OR Epic Reflexes
30 Legend : Scion of: Ethereal Plane OR Plane of Earth


Enhancements (80 AP)

Tempest (42 AP)

Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death, Deflect Arrows, Whirlwind, Dervish

Improved Reaction III, Whirling Blades
Improved Parry III, Improved Dodge III, Whirling Blades
Storm Dancer, Improved Mobility II, Whirling Blades
Storm Tempest, The Growing Storm III, Whirling Blades
Dual Perfection, Cuts: A Thousand Cuts III, Whirling Blades, Dance of Death III


Deepwood Stalker (26 AP)

Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Exposing Strike, Advanced Sneak Attack

Stealthy III, Tendon Cut I
Survivalist, Improved Weapon Finesse, Melee/Range Power Boost III
Survivalist, Thrill of the Hunt II, Favored Hunter III
Survivalist, Killer III


Elf (12 AP)

Elven Accuracy

Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus III, Valenar Weapon Training
Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow, Valenar Weapon Training
Greater Dragonmark of Shadow


Leveling Guide

Tem0 Shield of Whirling Steel; DS0 Far Shot; DS1 Stealthy I, II
DS1 Stealthy III; DS1 Tendon Cut I; DS2 Improved Weapon Finesse; Tem1 Improved Reaction I
Tem1 Improved Reaction II; Tem1 Whirling Blades; Tem0 Tempest
DS0 Sneak Attack; DS2 Melee/Range Power Boost I, II, III
Tem2 Whirling Blades; Tem2 Improved Parry I, II
Tem0 Graceful Death; DS0 Exposing Strike; Tem3 Storm Dancer
Tem3 Whirling Blades; Tem2 Improved Parry III; Tem2 Improved Dodge I
Tem3 Improved Mobility I; Tem2 Improved Dodge II; Tem3 Improved Mobility II; Tem4 The Growing Storm I
Tem4 The Growing Storm II, III; Tem4 Storm Tempest
Tem4 Whirling Blades; Tem1 Improved Reaction III; Tem2 Improved Dodge III
DS2 Survivalist; DS3 Survivalist
Reset Deepwood Stalker

Tempest: Deflect Arrows

(none)
(none)
(none)
(none)
Cuts: A Thousand Cuts III, Dance of Death III


Elf: Elven Accuracy

Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus III, Valenar Weapon Training
Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow, Valenar Weapon Training
Greater Dragonmark of Shadow

Tem5 Dual Perfection; Tem5 Whirling Blades
DS0 Far Shot; DS1 Stealthy I, II, III
DS1 Tendon Cut I; DS2 Melee/Range Power Boost I, II, III
DS0 Sneak Attack; DS2 Improved Weapon Finesse; DS0 Exposing Strike; DS3 Thrill of the Hunt I
DS2 Survivalist; DS3 Survivalist
Tem0 Whirlwind; DS3 Favored Hunter I, II, III
DS3 Thrill of the Hunt II; DS0 Advanced Sneak Attack; DS4 Survivalist
Tem0 Dervish; DS4 Killer I, II, III



Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought

Extra Action Boost III, Constitution
Damage Boost III, Constitution
Critical Damage III, Haste Boost III
Volcano's Edge
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz


Twists of Fate (26 fate points)

Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
Lithe (Tier 2 Shadowdancer)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)

Incredible build with a lot of options and versatility i like this!
You start with 20 Dex and pump full dex the rest of the way maximize weapon damage and reflex saves.
12 Con seems low without any extra along the way on a 1st build though?
And you can use Owl's Wisdom for +4 wis for casting spells and healing?
I like the bow option to get those pests in the high to reach areas but the damage looks low without AA.
Gives me a lot to think about thanks for this unbongwah :cool:

I have seen the Tempest Trap Monkey suggested to new players before and it does look like a lot of fun to play! Very well rounded game play with sneak damage.

To Tank or not to Tank seems to be the big question for me atm on a first build. And 2 half powered cleaves are better than no aoe at all!

[Fedora1]

And you can use Owl's Wisdom for +4 wis for casting spells and healing?

Yes you can. :)

[Mindos]

And 2 half powered cleaves are better than no aoe at all!

http://ddowiki.com/page/Tempest_enhancements#Dance_of_Death

[Frumpyster]

I guess another question i have is just how squishy is a 20 Tempest Ranger compared to a full 2WF in your experiences?

And another question came to mind is can i make up a lot of HP from a low Con start up in a pure 2WF build with Stalwart Defender and 2 feats of Toughness? I have seen posts having 1 shot or 2 shot builds and there is a point of no positive return for your effort in adding HP?

[the_one_dwarfforged]

mixing ranger and fighter for twf is not ideal or recommended because both of them have much of their power concentrated in their t5s which are mutually exclusive and their 18/20 cores which are also mutually exclusive.

from the fighter perspective, if you are mainly fighter and arent taking the tempest t5 then ranger doesnt actually add anything much to your build but takes away from your mp and feats total which means less dps.

from the ranger perspective, if you are a ranger and you want to add many fighter levels you might end up with higher base damage and mp than a pure ranger build but (in the 14/6 split at least) you will lose all of your crit profile buffs and a lot of your double strike and your only alacrity buff which means less dps.

also, generally speaking dance of death is overall better for twf but do not mistake cleaves as being "weak" on twf just because somebody told you so. cleaves have the advantage of being instant, not scaling with haste boost (yes, i count that as an advantage), being a larger aoe, and working with normally while moving. while mathematically cleaves are obviously not going to deal as much damage per cleave on a twf build as they would on a thf build, instant aoe is still instant aoe. also, ranger builds dont run with lay waste in epics which is a pretty awesome cc or burst damage ability.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

I guess another question i have is just how squishy is a 20 Tempest Ranger compared to a full 2WF in your experiences?

And another question came to mind is can i make up a lot of HP from a low Con start up in a pure 2WF build with Stalwart Defender and 2 feats of Toughness? I have seen posts having 1 shot or 2 shot builds and there is a point of no positive return for your effort in adding HP?

a fighter is definitely going to be better suited to high level reaper because you can actually build them to survive 1+ hits more easily. rangers have a clear advantage in avoidance stats, but clear disadvantages in hp and mitigation. fighters also can achieve very high tactical dcs which are an active defense and probably more valuable than any defensive stats a dps character is going to have.

having played a pure fighter in reaper at cap, i quite enjoyed it and i found twf to be the better combat style because of the increased single target damage without really hurting my aoe by too much. aoe is more for trash and thus is less important anyway.

[Fedora1]

from the ranger perspective, if you are a ranger and you want to add many fighter levels you might end up with higher base damage and mp than a pure ranger build but (in the 14/6 split at least) you will lose all of your crit profile buffs and a lot of your double strike and your only alacrity buff which means less dps.

The Ranger\Fighter 14\6 or 15\5 split lets you take T5 Kensai enhancements - Keen Edge (+1 Competence bonus to Critical Threat Range with your Focus weapons), Deadly Strike (Automatically considered a critical threat. On Vorpal: 500 damage which scales with Melee Power) and One With the Blade (+20 Melee and Ranged Power).

The 14\6 split is proably better though, so you can still grab Power Surge from the Kensai cores.

You give up Dance of Death and a lot of double strike from Tempest 18\20 cores though, but that doesn't affect crit profile.

It's all a trade off, and just my opinion that with the enhancement passes making the core 4-5 so strong, in most cases pure classes are going to be better and easier to build. There are some very good split\splashes but they are more advanced and leave less room for error now as compared to 3+ years ago.

[Frumpyster]

Thanks again for all your replies to this thread it is much appreciated :cool:

I have learned a lot and im sure a lot of new players will to and avoid weak or gimped characters down the line.

The ability to multiclass seems to heavily rely on the use of tomes and past live feats to really maximize their potential.
The Ranger class just isnt viable with Fighter splash. I agree you lose too much with out the capstones.

Playing the free content to level 20 with 2WF seems like the better option because i can make up HP from a low Con start up.
I think i can still get to 1000 HP by level 20 with Stalwart Tree and still have a couple of cleaves for taking the garbage out.

The Ranger is a more complicated character and you have to be more calculated in your attack options. I will play it next live and pay for some game content
so i can add tomes and have a stronger base to start from. Most mmorpgs i play i start with the tank builds and its usually an easier time learning the game that way.
You cant get favor playing free content to get tomes which is kind of cheap imo but it is how it is.

Reaper is nice for the extra XP and reaper points for reaper based skills helps with survivability. I solo a lot but i know it will be easier in reaper parties for some quests.

I always play the characters i like the best and i like Dual Weapon builds the most in this game and its nice to have two options.

[unbongwah]

12 Con seems low without any extra along the way on a 1st build though?
You can also start DEX 20 CON 14 INT 10 - just pick two skills to drop.

I have seen the Tempest Trap Monkey suggested to new players before and it does look like a lot of fun to play! Very well rounded game play with sneak damage.
The big question mark is whether the added versatility from rogue splash makes up for losing the Tempest capstone: "+4 Dexterity. +25% chance to doublestrike with your off-hand while dual wielding. While wearing light or no armor: +10 Melee Power, Physical Resistance Rating, and Magical Resistance Rating." In particular, the +10 MP +25% offhand doublestrike are significant DPS bonuses.

And 2 half powered cleaves are better than no aoe at all!
Dance of Death provides your AoE DPS and is a lot better than Cleaving on a TWF build. Plus you don't need the Power Atk / Cleave / GC feat chain, which also means you don't need to worry about base STR.

[Frumpyster]

Just when i thought i had made up my mind you put me back on the Ranger path again haha!
I do luv the female elf in light armor <33.

Mobility Feat looks like an excellent addition to Dodge.

I think i would replace Greater Dragonmark of Shadow for Spring Attack since the prerequisites are met with Mobility and Dodge feat. (Spring Atack: Character suffers no penalty to his attack roll when meleeing and moving (-4 attack roll). You will also gain a 2% dodge bonus.

Replacing Dragon Mark in Elf racial enhancements would help to allow:
Valenar Weapon Training +1 Hit +1 Damage Scimitars (x4) is worth AP?
Elf Skill: +3% Doublestrike (Main Hand only) +3% Doubleshot, +3% dodge, and bypass 3% of enemy dodge.


Will there be enough for survivalist is probably the question.

I also wanted to address the ability to heal with the Ranger. What increases the ability Feat wise, AP wise, Stat wise, and Spell wise?
Is extra spell points from Elf enhancement and AA trees (200 SP total) worth it and helpful for the SP pool?

[Frumpyster]

You can also start DEX 20 CON 14 INT 10 - just pick two skills to drop.

The big question mark is whether the added versatility from rogue splash makes up for losing the Tempest capstone: "+4 Dexterity. +25% chance to doublestrike with your off-hand while dual wielding. While wearing light or no armor: +10 Melee Power, Physical Resistance Rating, and Magical Resistance Rating." In particular, the +10 MP +25% offhand doublestrike are significant DPS bonuses.

Dance of Death provides your AoE DPS and is a lot better than Cleaving on a TWF build. Plus you don't need the Power Atk / Cleave / GC feat chain, which also means you don't need to worry about base STR.


For these reasons alone a may decide on a pure Ranger build. The free human feat for The Dragonmark allows for 2 powerful skills Dimension Door, and Knock which could make up for the rogue splash.
The other Human enhancement is the 1st skill Human Versatility Damage Boost which can be pumped up with Dex for hit (or charisma for Knock?).

Also Heaing Amp useful?

[Mindos]

Replacing Dragon Mark in Elf racial enhancements would help to allow:

That dragonmark opens up displacement, and taking extend makes it last much longer, especially at level cap. Granted, nowadays there is gear that comes close, so...

[Frumpyster]

Displacement is probably a lot more useful to a glass canon melee than Demension Door and Knock for picking locks doors and chests.

The Ranger sure has a lot of useful spells. Im looking at ways to increase the Cure Serious Wounds spell.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

The Ranger\Fighter 14\6 or 15\5 split lets you take T5 Kensai enhancements - Keen Edge (+1 Competence bonus to Critical Threat Range with your Focus weapons), Deadly Strike (Automatically considered a critical threat. On Vorpal: 500 damage which scales with Melee Power) and One With the Blade (+20 Melee and Ranged Power).

The 14\6 split is proably better though, so you can still grab Power Surge from the Kensai cores.

You give up Dance of Death and a lot of double strike from Tempest 18\20 cores though, but that doesn't affect crit profile.

It's all a trade off, and just my opinion that with the enhancement passes making the core 4-5 so strong, in most cases pure classes are going to be better and easier to build. There are some very good split\splashes but they are more advanced and leave less room for error now as compared to 3+ years ago.

if you arent going to take dance of death though, why would you take any ranger levels at all though. it would just gimp the fighter, not buff the ranger.

[Frumpyster]

I didnt realize that Human Action Boost wont run with Haste Boost of the Kensai Tree for fighter. Good to know.

[unbongwah]

I think i would replace Greater Dragonmark of Shadow for Spring Attack since the prerequisites are met with Mobility and Dodge feat.
Displacement from the Greater Shadow Dragonmark is a far, far bigger boost to your survivability than the +2% Dodge bonus from Spring Attack. Negating the to-hit penalty for movement is a fairly minimal boost to your DPS; and as an elf you can offset it with the Accuracy bonuses from the racial cores anyway. There are other ways of getting Displacement - namely raid gear and UMDing Displacement scrolls - but nothing which would be immediately available to a first-lifer like Shadow DM is.

Plus glowing facial tattoos are cool. :cool:

http://ddowiki.com/images/Dragonmark_elf.jpg

The biggest downside to the Dragonmarked elf build is the 12 APs you have to spend to get Gtr Shadow DM, which are APs not being spent on more DPS. E.g., the Cuisinart (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/465697-The-Divine-Cuisinart-A-dual-khopesh-wielding-pure-tempest-ranger-in-divine-crusader) has higher DPS than my elf ranger: partly because it's STR-based using khopesh rather than scimitars; and partly because it has extra DPS bonuses like Mark of the Hunted and Know the Angles which my Shadow Tempest can't afford. [Not unless you're willing to bang out 30 Racial Reincarnations (http://ddowiki.com/page/Racial_Reincarnation) for 10 extra APs which, umm, might take a while. :rolleyes:]

[Frumpyster]

I thought about spring attack as another way to negate the -4 hit while moving because you do that a lot when you get mobbed up and a 2% to dodge nice bonus. I came to the conclusion that the Hit stat on this character will be extremely high regardless and i wont be tanking any high level bosses that are some how harder to hit even with their size.

So im opting for the cool looking Dragon Mark and the skill scales 6 seconds per caster level (No maximum). Extend Spell will keep it ticking for a good while after level 10+ then. Cant argue with that :cool:

I was looking at the Human Dragon Mark for skills such as Protection from Elements and Globe of Invulnerability. Globe of invulnerability is only 30 sec (1 min with entend spell) and it is confined to i believe 20 meters around you. Protection from the elements looks good though (1 minute per caster level) it still doesnt benefit fully like Displacement does imo.

Would a start with ELf :

8 Str
18 Dex
14 Con
14 Int
10 wis
8 cha

be better for tomeless start?

What level do you start to see the DPS really amp up excluding aoe?

[unbongwah]

I was looking at the Human Dragon Mark for skills such as Protection from Elements and Globe of Invulnerability. Globe of invulnerability is only 30 sec (1 min with entend spell) and it is confined to i believe 20 meters around you. Protection from the elements looks good though (1 minute per caster level) it still doesnt benefit fully like Displacement does imo.
Protection from Energy is a ranger spell, so the only real advantage to Prot. from Elements is it casts all five elements at once rather than individually; that's an SP- and time-saver, but really it's just a convenience, since it's rare to need more than 2-3 elements at a time. GoI sounds cool, but since it's stationary and only protects against lower-level spells, it's not all that useful. The Kundarak Gtr DM Radiant Forcefield (http://ddowiki.com/page/Radiant_Forcefield) is a lot more practical as emergency defenses go.

What level do you start to see the DPS really amp up excluding aoe?
Dance of Death is really the Tempest's raison d'etre, IMO, which you don't get until lvl 12. Up until that point, you'll have respectable single-target DPS, but since you spend so much time fighting trash mobs, you'll probably feel behind the curve compared to, say, the cleaving barb or ftr who plows thru them. Then you hit lvl 12 and gain DoD, Dual Perfection, Thousand Cuts, and +1 crit multiplier; so you see big jumps in base DPS and gain one of the best AoE melee abilities in DDO.

EDIT: BTW, decided to update my Shadow Tempest by dropping the Dodge+Mobility feats and taking Shadow DM feat much sooner, which is really the signature ability of this build. So those feat slots can go towards some ranged DPS or other perks like Two-Weapon Defense.

[C-Dog]

I thought about spring attack as another way to negate the -4 hit while moving ...
You're thinking D&D - different game.

First, in DDO, "To Hit" is (almost?) meaningless - if your build is decent, you're going to hit on a 2, np. But more to the point, Mobility is for all the other benefits: http://ddowiki.com/page/Mobility

And it's arguable whether the feat chain is worth those - ymmv. But don't consider "to hit" as part of the equation.

[Frumpyster]

EDIT: BTW, decided to update my Shadow Tempest by dropping the Dodge+Mobility feats and taking Shadow DM feat much sooner, which is really the signature ability of this build. So those feat slots can go towards some ranged DPS or other perks like Two-Weapon Defense.

I was thinking along the same lines of moving the Shadow DM up to the earliest level because with no Dexterity to Hit and Damage will be a dangerous time.I was also thinking about adding a couple of Toughness in place of Dodge+Mobility.

Trying out the updated Shadow Tempest Ranger Tonight!

My limited experience in DDO is a lvl 8 Ranger Strimpton's acid bow and a lvl 6 Dwarf 2HF HP tanker build. I never felt the need to use spells with the bow char other than flipping the power switches on and using Manyshot with an Action Boost. It is a very easy character to level for beginners but i prefer melee classes. Seems to me that the Bow could benefit a lot from Displacement as well in tough spots.

The Dwarf THF i could bash my way through 1st lvl Reapers with a Cleric in Tow. Sometimes throw on a shield when the going got tough. Both simple and effective builds.

I started a Human 2WF with cleaves to try it out yesterday. I started with all offensive Feats Two Weapon Fighting, Ovesized Two Weapon Fighting. and a Cleave then took a test drive. At lvl 4 added in second cleave. Not feeling over powered at all at this point rather under powered due to the lack of good weapons (Two very average LongSwords). Added in Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopeshes and have one really good and will add a second when i find one should make a big difference. Ready to roll at lvl 4! The cleaves are very average but do help with taking out the garbage.

[Frumpyster]

You're thinking D&D - different game.

First, in DDO, "To Hit" is (almost?) meaningless - if your build is decent, you're going to hit on a 2, np. But more to the point, Mobility is for all the other benefits: http://ddowiki.com/page/Mobility

And it's arguable whether the feat chain is worth those - ymmv. But don't consider "to hit" as part of the equation.

I agree with a high main stat of Dexterity to hit for the Shadow Tempest build shouldnt be an issue at all even against tougher enemies. "To hit is important" but my idea was really a waste of a feat.