Assassin Class is the only class in my collection that is multi class and here is why

[Wonedream]

I have 41 toons on Thelanis. I will probably make 2 clerics of each domain on every other server too, to see other servers, and to help here and there, while increasing my collection.

Thelanis is almost all pure prestige classes, one of each brings it to 39 roles to fill. I love my collection all in one place! <3

There is only one class of all 39 prestige classes in the game I won't make pure, and that is Assassin.

The main reason is his sneak movement is so slow it only works if I play solo. I like to solo, but I like to group also. I like having options, not just doing one way or another. So all my toons have to be optimal in both settings for me to like them the most.

My pure prestige Assassin a in a group...

Tries to sneak, moves slower, ends up way behind the entire group. We rush a room, by the time my assassin has sneaked up to a monster, it is already dead.

Repeat every single room almost, occasionally getting some kills on champs that don't die so fast or some left overs. He feels like a janitor this way.



So I throw in 2 levels of Ranger, pick up some feats (the 2wf line is nice, good free feat), and get my sneak speed faster.

Now I run with a group, I actually move a bit faster then they do, and can sneak up and put my life in danger that much faster (which is fun), get lots of kills, I can kill those monsters before THEY reach them now... big difference in group setting when the primary engine that makes Assassin tick allows you to move ahead or makes you fall behind.

It also makes soloing way more fun, my Assassin's sneak becomes a real part of his style, and after comparing the pure version to the mulit version, I can't go back to pure version unless it has a sneak like multi version. The difference is me having fun or me getting frustrated with the build. I choose fun off course.

The assassin is a 1st life, and will unlikely ever TR, but if it does, it will only do so twice for the +4 to stats, a few meebly PL enhancements, and most importantly the favor tombs for a total of +5 to 3 of his primary stats and +2 to the rest, as well as gaining legendary title. Which makes me like him more. Other then that, he intends to park at level 30, and it is unlikely he will even TR once really (maybe I will live a long long life, and he then will...)

I am just sharing my take on Assassin and what it is like to play it. It is a great class, so much fun, but that sneak for me is what makes it or breaks it. All the other prestiges I have managed to extract AP combinations with feats etc, to make totally fun and top notch (with only 2 falling short, but good enough still), but Assassin with fast sneak is just way more fun then Assassin with slow sneak and +2 assassinate DC in epics.

WAY more fun for me.


I am not trying to start any debate here, just sharing my Assassin build, which is

Halfling
Assassin Rogue 18 / Ranger 2

2wf with dagger melee line dexterity dump with KTA dps
scrolled up to act like a semi caster of both wiz and cleric spells

sneak speed 125% making him go faster then if he isn't sneaking. If I added monk, I could take the exploit further, but that is fast enough already. I made a super sneak with 225% sneak speed, and it felt like a God messing up the game. I rarely ever play exploit builds these days, preferring the good old honest pure prestige by far, but there are a few I find too much fun to resist (TOGG build for example), if I ever get more character slots, since my pure prestige line is complete (minus pure Assassin), I will make a few exploit multi class builds, including once again... the evil sneak monk/rogue/ranger which was ridiculously fun to play :D Not sure if he will be another Assassin...

APs mostly in Assassinate class, with Acrobat follow up and lousy but sometimes useful repeater.


Feel free to share your Assassin build if you have one, I am quite interested to see em because it is the only prestige I prefer not to play pure.

That extra sneak speed is just too much fun :P

[Avocado]

I've never had issue in my 4 assassin lives of not being able to move fast enough. As a rogue I tend to stay ahead of the group enough so that they draw aggro back and I can assasinate the enemies from behind. Also on reaper, i dont usually have an issue of dead mobs before o can reach them, that only happens of ee or under. Ive never needed to move faster than the 75 from the assassin tree. That said, it's known that you can stack sneak speed and I have no idea if it's wai. I have a very hard time giving up my 3 assassinate dc for some extra movement speed. There is also the jumping you can do in order to move faster. Jump in while stealthed will help you move faster.

Also that's funny, assassin is he only class I play pure because of its unbeatable capstone. I don't use kta...its rather a big waste of a p. 43ish assassin, 31 ta, 6 in mechinc. Rogues do little base dps and as a dex build my int gets to maybe 40 making k ta like 7 extra damage. So not worth is for me.

I bet the extra movement speed is fun but as an endgame reaper player i need all the dc i can get. I cant give up 3 from capstone. 100ish dc is already too low for endgame.

[slarden]

Pure is better. You have no idea what slow sneak speed is unless you played assassin before the pass. It's significantly improved and although myself and others thought it should be a little faster others were not happy with the speed bonuses given which was a huge bump up. If you use the clickie in shadow dancer you can sneak faster than anyone else can move for a short time. If anything they should change that clickie to a smaller passive sneak speed bonus.

assassins have the same issue all melees have in high skull reaper except with lower prr and lower hp so the issue is more pronounced. Unlike the old days you can't mitigate damage through good play due to many aoe type attacks. That and aggro changes are what is wrong with assassin more than sneak speed.

although in theory with enough reaper points assassin may rock. I am not there yet.

[Marshal_Lannes]

I think pure is better but the game allows you to do many things so it ends being player preference. The old rule of thumb was that assassins who spend all their time in stealth mode don't know what they are doing. Stealth is great for solo or for coordinated group play but it fails big time in most questing modes if that is all you're in. A TWF Rogue in the assassin tree is a monster in Reaper when they are tied to the hip of any DPS melee (Barb, Fighter, Monk, Paladin etc). Those two working in tandem can really take down mobs. If you have a divine watching them, then use your other 3 spots with ranged you have a seriously strong party.

The main issue with assassin isn't their sneak speed nor their DCs nor their lack of defense - it is the lack of an AOE attack. What is an assassin supposed to do in Newcomers when wave after wave of mobs charge the group?

[blerkington]

My pure prestige Assassin a in a group...

Tries to sneak, moves slower, ends up way behind the entire group. We rush a room, by the time my assassin has sneaked up to a monster, it is already dead.

Repeat every single room almost, occasionally getting some kills on champs that don't die so fast or some left overs. He feels like a janitor this way.

You don't need to waddle along in stealth all or even most of the time. Spending a few points in the TA tree gives you fast movement and it's worth the cost.

So keep up with the group out of stealth and just approach enemies in a way such that you don't pick up aggro. Not getting seen/not attacking first will usually stop you getting aggro initially, but that doesn't mean cowering down the back of the group either. Drop into stealth only when you need to use it rather than as a roleplaying device.

Making a small change to your playstyle will largely solve this problem you're having. My opinion about multiclassing them is that you lose much more than you gain, although that is most noticeable on higher difficulties. The capstone is quite good and the loss of it is not something you can get back by changing the way you play; without it your character is just objectively worse at most of its specialties.

Assassins absolutely do not need an AOE attack. It is already a strong PRE. A properly built one can instakill two targets every twelve seconds and dish out very good melee damage too. I'm really not a fan of people constantly asking for classes to be made stronger and given more abilities; it's pure munchkinism leading to more power creep and eroding the difference between classes.

Thanks.

[Saekee]

I also play multiclass assassins and agree they are funner. My main is 18/2 ranger.

Here is what I did:
feats: level 1 rapid reload 3 light repeater prof. I took 2 levels ranger and so at level 3 I have rapid shot. I use a ML 4 vorpal light repeater until assassin time at level 12 (I tried going TWF from level 9 onward but was not worth it). You are not an assassin until level 12; until then you are a squishy improved TWF.

By level 12 I swapped rapid reload and repeater prof for improved feint (insanely good) and quickdraw. With quickdraw and rapid shot, I can toss daggers at a good rate and this should synergize with the future knife tossing tree. I think that I will do Sap over quickdraw though.

I have been setting up the ROGUE workbook with this split.

Stacking faster sneak speed is WAI--it is a cost for the powerful assassin capstone. Assassin faster sneaking is bugged at 50% not 75%; when that is fixed I will use my Prowler build.

[Thrudh]

I have 41 toons on Thelanis. I will probably make 2 clerics of each domain on every other server too, to see other servers, and to help here and there, while increasing my collection.

I thought the devs had forced you to only play one character?

Me, I rarely have any "pure" characters, except my wizard. Most of my guys are multi-class. Just more fun that way usually. Crazy amount of choices in level splits, and enhancements.

[Wonedream]

I thought the devs had forced you to only play one character?

Me, I rarely have any "pure" characters, except my wizard. Most of my guys are multi-class. Just more fun that way usually. Crazy amount of choices in level splits, and enhancements.

No, they haven't forced anything. But the way the game is now causes me to see my alts as just mules and it forces me to focus PLs on one toon only if I intend to reach my goal of having one toon with all the PLs.

Permadeath is right, PLs have become far too relevant in this game.


Paper and Pen DnD didn't have its players TRing... for PLs, there is NO PL index in ANY of the DnD books!

TRing is not dungeons and dragons.

It is more Buddhism or something...

I think it is great to have it available, for if someone gets bored of their Main toon's configuration, though I would prefer people make more alts they took seriously to try new builds out instead of seeing so many mains on my server being the only toon they play usually.


For a lot of people... the idea of building something is so you can USE it. Not delete it back to lvl 1 and start over.

Imagine doing that with your house!

You build a house... burn it over to build it a little bigger (but pay the price, time, and energy all over)




Dungeons and Dragon's Online? They should maybe call it something else, reaper prr TR game online? The dungeons and dragons part is less and less there when Dungeons and Dragons Paper and Pen does not have random reapers, reaper exp, physical resistance rating, and reincarnation system.

My shape changing flying wizard looks at DDO and says, no, I ain't going there so they can take my spells away!!!

My rogue can't climb walls, nor steal from other players and make mischief.




But I will be damned if my Assassin is gonna take another hit too, and the advantage I get from fast sneaking is faster tactical positioning, which, in real war and according to the Art of War is one of the most important factors in making or breaking victory. I find that being able to move extremely fast while sneaking allows me to very quickly get into a position I like, or out of one I don't.

I do take the Acrobat speed boost too, no way I am gonna pass up 20% speed when I am talking about speed here. It only makes her sneak faster, to my satisfaction.


I really like this idea of merging her with the knife thrower build... guess Ill have to wait and see, but she uses daggers anyways.

Improved Feint... I might try that, sounds like it would be deadly to the max on an assassin build.


If 100 DC on assassinate is still not enough to deal with content later on, then my 1st life assassin will be really bad at assassinate, since I doubt she will reach that DC being first life.. 2 lifes at best add 2 +5 favor tombs and +4 to stats but won't add much to DC beyond that. But, as I understand, to reach 100 you got to go for every little bonus you can find.. I don't have yugoloth potions, or cookies... they should just make a freaking cookie star! Or a place you can get yugo potions (if they got one, maybe I just need to know where)...

If I can get my DC to 80 I would be astonished, falling so short why am I even playing an assassin? If I can get my DC past 90 I will throw away sneak speed and go for it, but if it is so much lower then that 100 that is not easy to get, I find fast sneak is more valuable to an adaptable toon.


What is the highest a first level assassin can hope to get for on his or her assassinate DCs anyways?
(including the +5 favor tomb added to dump stat)


And am I better off not using KTA and just focusing on Dex?

[Saekee]

No, they haven't forced anything. But the way the game is now causes me to see my alts as just mules and it forces me to focus PLs on one toon only if I intend to reach my goal of having one toon with all the PLs.

Permadeath is right, PLs have become far too relevant in this game.


Paper and Pen DnD didn't have its players TRing... for PLs, there is NO PL index in ANY of the DnD books!

TRing is not dungeons and dragons.

It is more Buddhism or something...

I think it is great to have it available, for if someone gets bored of their Main toon's configuration, though I would prefer people make more alts they took seriously to try new builds out instead of seeing so many mains on my server being the only toon they play usually.


For a lot of people... the idea of building something is so you can USE it. Not delete it back to lvl 1 and start over.

Imagine doing that with your house!

You build a house... burn it over to build it a little bigger (but pay the price, time, and energy all over)




Dungeons and Dragon's Online? They should maybe call it something else, reaper prr TR game online? The dungeons and dragons part is less and less there when Dungeons and Dragons Paper and Pen does not have random reapers, reaper exp, physical resistance rating, and reincarnation system.

My shape changing flying wizard looks at DDO and says, no, I ain't going there so they can take my spells away!!!

My rogue can't climb walls, nor steal from other players and make mischief.




But I will be damned if my Assassin is gonna take another hit too, and the advantage I get from fast sneaking is faster tactical positioning, which, in real war and according to the Art of War is one of the most important factors in making or breaking victory. I find that being able to move extremely fast while sneaking allows me to very quickly get into a position I like, or out of one I don't.

I do take the Acrobat speed boost too, no way I am gonna pass up 20% speed when I am talking about speed here. It only makes her sneak faster, to my satisfaction.


I really like this idea of merging her with the knife thrower build... guess Ill have to wait and see, but she uses daggers anyways.

Improved Feint... I might try that, sounds like it would be deadly to the max on an assassin build.


If 100 DC on assassinate is still not enough to deal with content later on, then my 1st life assassin will be really bad at assassinate, since I doubt she will reach that DC being first life.. 2 lifes at best add 2 +5 favor tombs and +4 to stats but won't add much to DC beyond that. But, as I understand, to reach 100 you got to go for every little bonus you can find.. I don't have yugoloth potions, or cookies... they should just make a freaking cookie star! Or a place you can get yugo potions (if they got one, maybe I just need to know where)...

If I can get my DC to 80 I would be astonished, falling so short why am I even playing an assassin? If I can get my DC past 90 I will throw away sneak speed and go for it, but if it is so much lower then that 100 that is not easy to get, I find fast sneak is more valuable to an adaptable toon.


What is the highest a first level assassin can hope to get for on his or her assassinate DCs anyways?
(including the +5 favor tomb added to dump stat)


And am I better off not using KTA and just focusing on Dex?

TA tree boosts max dex & dodge bonus, knockdown immunity, shadow dodge dex boost and, perhaps most importantly, improved defensive roll

[Avocado]

No, they haven't forced anything. But the way the game is now causes me to see my alts as just mules and it forces me to focus PLs on one toon only if I intend to reach my goal of having one toon with all the PLs.

Permadeath is right, PLs have become far too relevant in this game.


Paper and Pen DnD didn't have its players TRing... for PLs, there is NO PL index in ANY of the DnD books!

TRing is not dungeons and dragons.

It is more Buddhism or something...

I think it is great to have it available, for if someone gets bored of their Main toon's configuration, though I would prefer people make more alts they took seriously to try new builds out instead of seeing so many mains on my server being the only toon they play usually.


For a lot of people... the idea of building something is so you can USE it. Not delete it back to lvl 1 and start over.

Imagine doing that with your house!

You build a house... burn it over to build it a little bigger (but pay the price, time, and energy all over)




Dungeons and Dragon's Online? They should maybe call it something else, reaper prr TR game online? The dungeons and dragons part is less and less there when Dungeons and Dragons Paper and Pen does not have random reapers, reaper exp, physical resistance rating, and reincarnation system.

My shape changing flying wizard looks at DDO and says, no, I ain't going there so they can take my spells away!!!

My rogue can't climb walls, nor steal from other players and make mischief.




But I will be damned if my Assassin is gonna take another hit too, and the advantage I get from fast sneaking is faster tactical positioning, which, in real war and according to the Art of War is one of the most important factors in making or breaking victory. I find that being able to move extremely fast while sneaking allows me to very quickly get into a position I like, or out of one I don't.

I do take the Acrobat speed boost too, no way I am gonna pass up 20% speed when I am talking about speed here. It only makes her sneak faster, to my satisfaction.


I really like this idea of merging her with the knife thrower build... guess Ill have to wait and see, but she uses daggers anyways.

Improved Feint... I might try that, sounds like it would be deadly to the max on an assassin build.


If 100 DC on assassinate is still not enough to deal with content later on, then my 1st life assassin will be really bad at assassinate, since I doubt she will reach that DC being first life.. 2 lifes at best add 2 +5 favor tombs and +4 to stats but won't add much to DC beyond that. But, as I understand, to reach 100 you got to go for every little bonus you can find.. I don't have yugoloth potions, or cookies... they should just make a freaking cookie star! Or a place you can get yugo potions (if they got one, maybe I just need to know where)...

If I can get my DC to 80 I would be astonished, falling so short why am I even playing an assassin? If I can get my DC past 90 I will throw away sneak speed and go for it, but if it is so much lower then that 100 that is not easy to get, I find fast sneak is more valuable to an adaptable toon.


What is the highest a first level assassin can hope to get for on his or her assassinate DCs anyways?
(including the +5 favor tomb added to dump stat)


And am I better off not using KTA and just focusing on Dex?

I think dex is the way to go. Weezily on khyber plays an int built pure and it seems to work well for him. My dex goes to about 90 temporary. Store stat potions, 3 reaper, 4 tensers, 2 yugo, 2 ta core 5, 7 tome, and 2 from assasin cap core. Thats a start for why mine is 100.

[Arty_Farty]

I'm in agreement with those who favour the pure 20 capstone over the splash, particularly if you are aiming for reaper difficulty.

I run my assassin as an INT based 1st lifer and do just fine in pretty much any content, past lives are certainly not everything for an assassin. The assassin is challenging to play, but therein lies the fun.

I personally find there is no need to sneak faster than the party. Using skill and tactics you can drop in/out of stealth regularly and with careful positioning and aggro mitigation work from both ahead or together with the party as appropriate to the situation, contributing to party success through a combination of assassinations, raw dps and utility. The faster you can sneak the easier this will be, but the current sneak speed when staying pure is not an impediment to success.

One suggestion I noted in this thread was to change the Shadow Training II speed sneak clicky into a lower passive bonus. I would not like to see that change. The existing 30 sec super-speed clicky is a nice unique benefit, and one which offers great advantages in some niche situations. Reducing the number of unique effects would be a backward step, we need more of these type of niche effects to keep things interesting and differentiate between classes/builds.

Weezily the Wicked, Khyber
Proving 1st life INT based assassins are truly the most op class in DDO ;-)

[Wonedream]

I'm in agreement with those who favour the pure 20 capstone over the splash, particularly if you are aiming for reaper difficulty.

I run my assassin as an INT based 1st lifer and do just fine in pretty much any content, past lives are certainly not everything for an assassin. The assassin is challenging to play, but therein lies the fun.

I personally find there is no need to sneak faster than the party. Using skill and tactics you can drop in/out of stealth regularly and with careful positioning and aggro mitigation work from both ahead or together with the party as appropriate to the situation, contributing to party success through a combination of assassinations, raw dps and utility. The faster you can sneak the easier this will be, but the current sneak speed when staying pure is not an impediment to success.

One suggestion I noted in this thread was to change the Shadow Training II speed sneak clicky into a lower passive bonus. I would not like to see that change. The existing 30 sec super-speed clicky is a nice unique benefit, and one which offers great advantages in some niche situations. Reducing the number of unique effects would be a backward step, we need more of these type of niche effects to keep things interesting and differentiate between classes/builds.

Weezily the Wicked, Khyber
Proving 1st life INT based assassins are truly the most op class in DDO ;-)

I looked forward to lvling my assassin to epics!

Might switch to INT also, was considering this for a long time.

I find that while it isn't an impediment it does a lot to increase performance. Things will look different in epics, and I may +3 heart those 2 levels to make it pure, if I feel that extra 3 DC to assassinate is really gonna get those kills higher and provide a better utility for overall situations then the ability to maneuver in the dark unseen 50% faster, getting into position, and unleashing death. I will be considering the frequency of attack with the success rate and trying to determine if one gives more dps... speed can get to the target faster, and this does add to more dps, kills count for a lot too though, sorta like taking all the hps at once, so Ill pay attention to if I am able to basically kill stuff faster with or without the sneak speed. I might remove the APs first to get a better idea also.

It will be interesting to see what happens to my assassin in epics, I know rogues in general do much better then :P