The Ultimate Warlock Nerf

[Wonedream]

Their light damage and light bursts... now HEAL monsters... while hurting other party members and even themselves... a few blasts and they die...

Their magic attacks also heal monsters... and all buffs make monsters tougher...

I am sure even then the nerf club will say it is not enough...

:(

To the nerf club I have a message from high above...

"you suck"

Ok, my 2 cents.

[cpw_acc]

Their light damage and light bursts... now HEAL monsters... while hurting other party members and even themselves... a few blasts and they die...

Their magic attacks also heal monsters... and all buffs make monsters tougher...

I am sure even then the nerf club will say it is not enough...

:(

To the nerf club I have a message from high above...

"you suck"

Ok, my 2 cents.

Did you have a traumatic experience with a warlock in your early childhood?

:)

[KoobTheProud]

The first rule of Nerf Club: "Nobody talks about Nerf Club."

[Kylstrem]

Wow... is this conversation still going on.

If anyone thinks that warlocks were actually nerfed then they don't know much about warlocks. Only one build type of warlock was slightly nerfed, and it wasn't even the best build type (just the easiest for those who won't try to improve their knowledge/skill in this game).

That being said, I don't care either way. I'm not advocating more nerfs.

The whiners yelling for more nerfs need to get a life.
The whiners believing that Warlocks were broken with this nerf need to learn more about the game.

[Phoenicis]

Their light damage and light bursts... now HEAL monsters... while hurting other party members and even themselves... a few blasts and they die...

Their magic attacks also heal monsters... and all buffs make monsters tougher...

I am sure even then the nerf club will say it is not enough...

:(

To the nerf club I have a message from high above...

"you suck"

Ok, my 2 cents.

I am (still) of the opinion that there are people who won't be happy unless all classes do exactly the same DPS, just with different graphics.

you are single target? you do 100 DPS to one mob at a time max.

You are AOE? you can do a total of 100 DPS to all mobs you hit, max.

You are an instakill DC caster? the total HP of mobs you are allowed to kill is 100 DPS worth of mobs, anything over that will auto save.

And there are people who STILL won't be happy, Why you ask? His graphics are better than mine!

*facedesk

[cpw_acc]

I am (still) of the opinion that there are people who won't be happy unless all classes do exactly the same DPS, just with different graphics.

you are single target? you do 100 DPS to one mob at a time max.

You are AOE? you can do a total of 100 DPS to all mobs you hit, max.

You are an instakill DC caster? the total HP of mobs you are allowed to kill is 100 DPS worth of mobs, anything over that will auto save.

And there are people who STILL won't be happy, Why you ask? His graphics are better than mine!

*facedesk

^^^ this :)

Don't forget the "issue" where the quest ends and someone notices that another player in the party with a different class managed, for whatever reason, to get a higher kill count. They then immediately post a thread moaning how that class is OP and needs immediate nerfing.

I suggest that whoever gets in the lead in the kill-count table immediately gets an "over-confidence" nerf (half-damage) until another player matches their kill count (unless solo-ing of course).

[TedSandyman]

^^^ this :)

Don't forget the "issue" where the quest ends and someone notices that another player in the party with a different class managed, for whatever reason, to get a higher kill count. They then immediately post a thread moaning how that class is OP and needs immediate nerfing.

I suggest that whoever gets in the lead in the kill-count table immediately gets an "over-confidence" nerf (half-damage) until another player matches their kill count (unless solo-ing of course).

Well when you're running with a group and the kill counts are about even at 30 or 40 each, then a single warlock joins and everyone drops to 5 and 10 and the warlock skyrockets to 100. Once you see this time and time and time and time again ad nausium warlocks with 10 times the kill rate over everyone else all the time in every party, it does become a bit noticeable.

And just maybe a class with unlimited magical damaging ability, that can do area of affect and ignores most damage because of fantastical pre-healing abilities which are not subject to any healing penalty and can attack from distances that make it nearly impossible for the monsters to attack the character and can do that fantastic damage while running at a full sprint might just be a tad overpowered.

I have played my three lives as a warlock. It is stupidly overpowered. You may think it is overpowered, but you like it, and don't want it nerfed. That I can understand. But there is no way anyone with any sense can say that warlock isn't overpowered.

[skorpeon]

Their light damage and light bursts... now HEAL monsters... while hurting other party members and even themselves... a few blasts and they die...

Their magic attacks also heal monsters... and all buffs make monsters tougher...

I am sure even then the nerf club will say it is not enough...

:(

To the nerf club I have a message from high above...

"you suck"

Ok, my 2 cents.

I thought that issue was fixed? It sure sounds like the one that was fixed? Any thing that can hurt other players (apart from grease etc) will be fixed pretty quick I would imagine!

[Arch-Necromancer]

Well when you're running with a group and the kill counts are about even at 30 or 40 each, then a single warlock joins and everyone drops to 5 and 10 and the warlock skyrockets to 100. Once you see this time and time and time and time again ad nausium warlocks with 10 times the kill rate over everyone else all the time in every party, it does become a bit noticeable.

And just maybe a class with unlimited magical damaging ability, that can do area of affect and ignores most damage because of fantastical pre-healing abilities which are not subject to any healing penalty and can attack from distances that make it nearly impossible for the monsters to attack the character and can do that fantastic damage while running at a full sprint might just be a tad overpowered.

I have played my three lives as a warlock. It is stupidly overpowered. You may think it is overpowered, but you like it, and don't want it nerfed. That I can understand. But there is no way anyone with any sense can say that warlock isn't overpowered.

Yeah, that's true, especially the bolded part.

I think that they should have done something about Cone shape too since they nerfed the Aura. Many people have advised respecing to conelock because the Cone shape has now become the OP replacement for nerfed auralocks.

And it is because of that 130% spellpower scale that matches scale values of focused one target blasts instead of being closer in value to 95% spellpower scale from Chain shape (multi-target shape).

But I guess the devs wait for everyone to respec to conelock so they can acknowledge this and then make the nerf even more painful since everyone wll be (ab)using it.

[blerkington]

The nerfs we've seen so far haven't really done a whole lot, other than generating complaints and giving the appearance of SSG wanting to fix this very problematic class. But it seems like the problem with warlocks won't be solved by the type of fiddling around they've already tried.

I'd say some combination of adding saves to and increasing sp costs of SLAs, adding a target cap to AoE abilities, preventing fast movement powers from working during dungeon alert, reducing temp hp abilities, and making changes to quest designs and/or AI so monsters responded more effectively to AoE attacks would be much more to the point.

I do realise some of these suggestions are contentious and would affect more than just warlocks. But if they were implemented, they might get the game back on track to making single target builds more useful again, reducing lag due to quests not being packed quite so full with mobs, and making the game seem more like an adventure again and less like a second job of driving a souped-up ride-on mower over thousands of yards of bunny-infested lawn.

Letting the class into the game as it was, taking people's money then nerfing them later on was a real disservice to the community, and SSG deserves every gallon of community vitriol they get for how they've done it. Apart from the game balance issues, it's also been absolutely incendiary as a topic of discussion on the forums.

Thanks.

[WickedRogue]

I've been reading this forum. And Although I do agree with some of the warlock nerf. "Me being a warlock player myself" Seems a bit unfair when you go from doing 6-800 damage on normal rolls and then after this nerf your damaged is dropped to 2-300 on normal rolls..... My warlock is level 25 and I can't even one hit monsters on Epic Normal quest anymore.... This is a very big problem for warlock players such as myself... I do agree with some of the nerf but to take it down this low is nuts.... I have talked with a few people about this in game and they don't even wanna play DDO anymore due to this nerf... I mean it's pretty sad when you go from doing great dps to hardly any at all....I don't even wanna play my warlock anymore due to this. And he's the leader of my guild so I have to play it....people have said try getting better gear to boost my dps back up. Did that and tried that.... Nothing changes.... This warlock nerf is nuts. I mean Okay you wanna nerf warlocks dps good for you. I'm happy for ya. But when you nerf it so bad that you can't even one shot an enemy in an Epic normal quest??? Come on now don't you think that's a little to much?? People have actually quit DDO due to this nerf.... I'm not asking to put them back the way they was Just give us back some of our dps... This is just to much... Thank you...

[cpw_acc]

Well when you're running with a group and the kill counts are about even at 30 or 40 each, then a single warlock joins and everyone drops to 5 and 10 and the warlock skyrockets to 100. Once you see this time and time and time and time again ad nausium warlocks with 10 times the kill rate over everyone else all the time in every party, it does become a bit noticeable.

And just maybe a class with unlimited magical damaging ability, that can do area of affect and ignores most damage because of fantastical pre-healing abilities which are not subject to any healing penalty and can attack from distances that make it nearly impossible for the monsters to attack the character and can do that fantastic damage while running at a full sprint might just be a tad overpowered.

I have played my three lives as a warlock. It is stupidly overpowered. You may think it is overpowered, but you like it, and don't want it nerfed. That I can understand. But there is no way anyone with any sense can say that warlock isn't overpowered.

I was maybe being slightly ironic in my previous post, based on the occasional complaining posts I've see in here!

I do actually agree with you.

I only have one warlock character - specialised in souleater cone-shaped before they were even the 'in-thing' in the forums! - and I do have to agree that it seemed pretty OP in levels 1-20 compared to others in the party that I was running with (typically at least double the kill-count, sometimes more, and more than I could account for by the fact he had a few non-warlock past-lives and the other players didn't).

He had just reached mid-epic level by the time of the nerf. Currently I find that my kill count tends to be roughly the same as my guildie on his ranger (though it fluctuates depending on quest - I think the ranger tends to do better in quests with more open spaces and widely spaced creatures whereas my souleater warlock does better in quests with more enclosed spaces and mobs).

I haven't played a low-level warlock since the nerf so can't really comment.

[psykopeta]

I've been reading this forum. And Although I do agree with some of the warlock nerf. "Me being a warlock player myself" Seems a bit unfair when you go from doing 6-800 damage on normal rolls and then after this nerf your damaged is dropped to 2-300 on normal rolls..... My warlock is level 25 and I can't even one hit monsters on Epic Normal quest anymore.... This is a very big problem for warlock players such as myself... I do agree with some of the nerf but to take it down this low is nuts.... I have talked with a few people about this in game and they don't even wanna play DDO anymore due to this nerf... I mean it's pretty sad when you go from doing great dps to hardly any at all....I don't even wanna play my warlock anymore due to this. And he's the leader of my guild so I have to play it....people have said try getting better gear to boost my dps back up. Did that and tried that.... Nothing changes.... This warlock nerf is nuts. I mean Okay you wanna nerf warlocks dps good for you. I'm happy for ya. But when you nerf it so bad that you can't even one shot an enemy in an Epic normal quest??? Come on now don't you think that's a little to much?? People have actually quit DDO due to this nerf.... I'm not asking to put them back the way they was Just give us back some of our dps... This is just to much... Thank you...

that info is just false, not only using values 2-300 and 6-800(can't be that low as 2 or 6 unless u are lvl 4 or so) but you also adjusted them to the "60% conspiracy" which tries to say something like "you reduce part of the damage by 60% so the whole damage is reduced 60%"

as an example, at lvl 26 the damage nerf is under 20%, also 1 hitting mobs on epic normal given their hp in most situations, unless they are helpless, you wouldn't do it w/o proper gear(and would prolly need burstx2)

so pls, stop trying to fool players, spreading the drama is of no use

btw playing warlock this life too, 1st life doing reaper (so decided soloing r2 would be fair) and the nerf caught me at lvl 5, atm lvl 14 so not sure wherr all this drama comes from, prolly from missconception and missperception, cause i don't understand all that whining and dooming... by any chance aren't playerd comparing all damage outside reaper vs current on reaper?

[GlassCannon]

Wow... is this conversation still going on.

If anyone thinks that warlocks were actually nerfed then they don't know much about warlocks. Only one build type of warlock was slightly nerfed, and it wasn't even the best build type (just the easiest for those who won't try to improve their knowledge/skill in this game).

That being said, I don't care either way. I'm not advocating more nerfs.

The whiners yelling for more nerfs need to get a life.
The whiners believing that Warlocks were broken with this nerf need to learn more about the game.

A Scaling 80% to 40% nerf (from level 1 to later on) is not slight. Even after that we still have people saying "Make Warlock unplayable because I hate other people that play DDO!"

I think the nerf was implemented differently than it should have been as it did not address the problem directly but sidestepped it, harming the general population of warlocks rather than just making them squishy and impossible to turn into an indestructible stationary pain machine. If you want one of those, make a Dwarven Defender.

IMHO Warlock needs to start with 2d6 base damage and get more out of the non-Spirit trees if they will get their damage later in life like they have been made to do (every 4 lvls instead of every 3 knocks some dice off but is most noticeable when leveling in the early lvls) to flatten out the power curve and help them not struggle so badly from lvl 1-4. I don't like how the Spirit tree was implemented with an extremely cheap Displacement SLA and two AoE Bursts alongside a free HP clicky with Heal Amp that gives a significant temp HP pool.

I think Spirit needs to be reworked. I'll put that in another thread.

[barecm]

My paladin wants his holy sword affecting all weapons back, as well as his orb being a shield for all bonuses and SWF stance etc.... Just saying, some builds are too strong and need to be reeled in a bit. I know the "I want to be super powerful" need for some, but for the good of the game, SOME things need to be changed. I am not in favor of over the top nerfs, but at times, the bat needs to come out. PS, I run a warlock as well but realize what is what here.

[Arch-Necromancer]

that info is just false, not only using values 2-300 and 6-800(can't be that low as 2 or 6 unless u are lvl 4 or so) but you also adjusted them to the "60% conspiracy" which tries to say something like "you reduce part of the damage by 60% so the whole damage is reduced 60%"

I think the guy meant 200-300 (two to three hundred) and 600-800.

But you are right about the 60% conspiracy whine. :D

[Kylstrem]

A Scaling 80% to 40% nerf (from level 1 to later on) is not slight. Even after that we still have people saying "Make Warlock unplayable because I hate other people that play DDO!"

I think the nerf was implemented differently than it should have been as it did not address the problem directly but sidestepped it, harming the general population of warlocks rather than just making them squishy and impossible to turn into an indestructible stationary pain machine. If you want one of those, make a Dwarven Defender.

IMHO Warlock needs to start with 2d6 base damage and get more out of the non-Spirit trees if they will get their damage later in life like they have been made to do (every 4 lvls instead of every 3 knocks some dice off but is most noticeable when leveling in the early lvls) to flatten out the power curve and help them not struggle so badly from lvl 1-4. I don't like how the Spirit tree was implemented with an extremely cheap Displacement SLA and two AoE Bursts alongside a free HP clicky with Heal Amp that gives a significant temp HP pool.

I think Spirit needs to be reworked. I'll put that in another thread.

Statistics can always be used to frame anyone's bias. Saying it went from 80% to 40% does sound bad. But when you realize that 40% is still more than enough to easily run through content, then it's still not a huge nerf. essentially if I could overkill stuff by 200% before the nerf, but I'm only overkilling stuff by 150% now, then the nerf is not significant.

Again, I played Warlock before the nerf and after the nerf. My quest completion times are not noticeably taking longer. Maybe 30 seconds over the course of a 10 minute quest.

The only players who might actually notice a nerf are the ones who were just doing the Aura/Burst/Blast but even then they would still be doing very good Aura Damage (they'd be down 3d6 damage dice at level 20.

[Phil7]

Wow... is this conversation still going on.

If anyone thinks that warlocks were actually nerfed then they don't know much about warlocks. Only one build type of warlock was slightly nerfed, and it wasn't even the best build type (just the easiest for those who won't try to improve their knowledge/skill in this game).

That being said, I don't care either way. I'm not advocating more nerfs.

The whiners yelling for more nerfs need to get a life.
The whiners believing that Warlocks were broken with this nerf need to learn more about the game.

I agree with this. ES is supposed to be a defensive tree, but it had too much damage which made it able to do everything. Survive, kill fast, have CC, have temp HP and buff. Imo the nerf was accurate and ES will now be the "defensive tree" with the drawback of having lower damage.

Now the only things I would nerf/change on warlock is:
a) the +60% spell crit damage from TS which is too much compared to other casters. Either lower it or give the other casters a similar bonus.
b) Strickened Form from SE, stack 20 vulnerability in around 22 seconds, no internal cooldown. This makes no sense... all other classes with Vuln stacking have an innate cooldown, even TF weapons are worse than this enhancement. And it's only a T4 enhancement meaning u can use it from level 6. Just turn on Cone and everything in the room has Vuln stacks on it (wrong statement my bad, only the target of Stricken is inflicted with Vulnerability). Boss fight auto attack 20+ seconds and cap it.
c) Feed on Magic, add a cooldown. Something like 15 seconds cooldown. SE gets 2 SLA death-spells and that's great, wizards should too, but a class with 2 death SLAs and free no-cost damage (Eldritch Blast) should at least have a cooldown on such an enhancement.

I've heard people complaining about Eldritch Wave aswell, saying it's too strong. Well the thing is if u play R1 or lower then it will indeed 1shot everything, but so will an ES warlock with tentacles too or a cone warlock. If u play R3+ at level then E-Wave will not 1shot mobs, unless u play smart. Use your helpless spells first like Hold Monster and then throw the E-Wave. Very useful for bursting down Reapers, but not op imo. Leave this as it is.

[Cableman]

b) Strickened Form from SE, stack 20 vulnerability in around 22 seconds, no internal cooldown. This makes no sense... all other classes with Vuln stacking have an innate cooldown, even TF weapons are worse than this enhancement. And it's only a T4 enhancement meaning u can use it from level 6. Just turn on Cone and everything in the room has Vuln stacks on it. Boss fight auto attack 20+ seconds and cap it.

Really, I've seen so much misinformation spread about warlocks, I think there are some people out there that will not be satisfied until the class is totally destroyed. Only targets marked with stricken are made vulnerable, it is single target with a 10 second cool down. Too mark a whole room would take significant time just to make them vulnerable. Simply marking a Target and just start hitting everything with cone will not make everything vulnerable, only the target that was strickened.

[Phil7]

Really, I've seen so much misinformation spread about warlocks, I think there are some people out there that will not be satisfied until the class is totally destroyed. Only targets marked with stricken are made vulnerable, it is single target with a 10 second cool down. Too mark a whole room would take significant time just to make them vulnerable. Simply marking a Target and just start hitting everything with cone will not make everything vulnerable, only the target that was strickened.

yes my bad that's what I get for writing on the forums at night after work...
Btw I don't want warlock destroyed I like necro-locks. This is why I wrote down only 3 enhancements from the class which imo are broken right now. Otherwise I could just copy-paste the entire Soul Eater tree which is magic compared to Wiz/Sorc trees and say "NERF IT ALL!". And say nerf their UMD, their inherent resistances, the Slow Stance from Tainted Scholar and this and that.
Hell I even say that they should leave E-Wave alone calm down.