Monster Manual

[AlsoWondering]

I know that they are extra work, but does SDG plan to include more Monster Manuals in future updates?

[The_Human_Cypher]

I know that they are extra work, but does SDG plan to include more Monster Manuals in future updates?

I would like to see future volumes of the Monster Manual as well. There are still a number of core monsters missing from the current roster.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Monster_Manual

[Arch-Necromancer]

I think that existing manuals need to be tweaked first to make more sense.

Some monster types are general (and i think that more general is better), while some other are too specific.

For example, I think it was a bad idea to separate Elf and Drow in the manual. Drow ARE Elves and there is no need to make a difference between those while for example different race zombies or skeletons are counted as one monster type. There are not many non-drow elves as enemies for Elf manual entry to make sense without the drow. And duergar are not separated from regular dwarves in the manual so it is a consistency matter too.

Drow elves should just be moved into Elf count in Volume 2, and then one additional monster could be included into Volume 7 instead of Drow elves.

Of course, slay count threshold should be incresed drastically (merge the numbers from both entries) to take into account that drow elves are one of most numerous enemies in game.


Hill Giant entry in Volume 3 should be renamed to "Giant" and include all giants, not just hill giants (with slay count thresholds increased).


Elementals should be merged into one entry in Volume 2 (Earth Elemental -> Elemental) for all elementals. And then new monster types could be included into their place in other volumes. Current counts and thresholds should be merged.

All golems should be merged into one entry in Volume 3 (Flesh golem entry) and then other golem entries in other volumes replaced by new types.


Following merges may not make sense as ones above, but would help with manual entries being more general:

Flesh Renders, Ice Flenisers and Fire Reavers could be merged into one entry (Reavers, Renders and Flenisers).

Ghouls and Ghasts could be merged into one entry (Ghouls and Ghasts).

Efreet and Djinn could be merged into one entry (Djinn and Efreet).


With that we could have new monsters in the manual without making new volumes, and it would set a standard for manual entries to be more general when included, to have all subtypes in one entry rather than various subtypes being separated for some monsters (while being general for other).

[florestan]

I don't know if it fits perfectly in the monster manual but there should absolutely be slayer rewards for champs and reapers

[The_Human_Cypher]

I don't know if it fits perfectly in the monster manual but there should absolutely be slayer rewards for champs and reapers

This might be an interesting manner of expanding what the MM offers in the next volumes.

What essential monsters are still missing from the MM?

[Scrapco]

What essential monsters are still missing from the MM?

Barrels. I'd have expertise FO SHO

[Sunnie]

What essential monsters are still missing from the MM?
Owlbears are being discriminated against! They are not listed with the other bears. #owlbearkillsmatter

Also wights, I'm pretty sure. And fire giants, frost giants, cloud giants... all we get are the hill giants that usually don't even show up anywhere near hills.

[Cantor]

I like the mm, I would not like to see subraces combined I think that would kill most of the flavor. Some people like the collect them all aspect. That said a lot of giant subtypes are not represented. My buddy and I also talked about the idea that they would add reapers and champs I'd be all for something like that.

[Nonesuch2008]

I like the mm, I would not like to see subraces combined I think that would kill most of the flavor. Some people like the collect them all aspect. That said a lot of giant subtypes are not represented. My buddy and I also talked about the idea that they would add reapers and champs I'd be all for something like that.

Agreed, keep them split apart.

And add more volumes please!

[Sweyn]

I second keeping the subtypes. I like collecting them all and get excited whenever I reveal a new monster art. If all were combined, the monster art aspect would not be that exciting.

[Arch-Necromancer]

Well, I like to collect them all too, but only when there are enough of those monsters in game so you can collect them by playing normally, and not grind them by playing rare quests where you can maybe find only sevaral specimens of the particular monster type.

How many quests feature non drow elves? Are there any quests in game where they are a majority of enemies? Where can you grind this entry?

If there are entries for every subtype then the thresholds should depend on their number in game, so you can complete them just like you can those entries that are numerous like drow.

And second, if you make it that way, you can also separate duergar from regular dwarves into a new entry, with its own art so it is consistent with elves split.

Of course, all giant subtypes should be added, as separate entries, with their own art.

Yes, this IS a better way. Takes more work though, but really is better than merging subtypes.

Champions and/or reapers should be added to the Prologue (free) volume (since it lacks monsters and reapers are a general thing, not a regular monster type) and give mysterious remnants for reward. Not sure if they can make champion entry because they are regular monsters, just buffed to be stronger. But reapers should be doable.

[Sweyn]

Well, I like to collect them all too, but only when there are enough of those monsters in game so you can collect them by playing normally, and not grind them by playing rare quests where you can maybe find only sevaral specimens of the particular monster type.

How many quests feature non drow elves? Are there any quests in game where they are a majority of enemies? Where can you grind this entry?

If there are entries for every subtype then the thresholds should depend on their number in game, so you can complete them just like you can those entries that are numerous like drow.

I completely agree. I don't know where SSG comes up with the thresholds for different entries. Seriously. Warforged Titan = 200 kills for art, Horned Devil = 400 kills for art... nobody is every going to accomplish that unless they spend hours upon hours grinding. Then there are things like Bat = 500 kills, Abashai = 400 kills where you can get after running just a few quests. I understand Warforged Titan and Horned Devil might be "worth more", per se, but honestly the numbers are ridiculous.

[Cantor]

My loose idea for champs would be a count of champ kills, with a record of tier and type. Bonus points if you can collect a record of all bonus types they can get, like you have now faced a xxxx champ with every bonus type it can have. Art rewards could be codex or remnent related.

[Niminae]

I completely agree. I don't know where SSG comes up with the thresholds for different entries. Seriously. Warforged Titan = 200 kills for art, Horned Devil = 400 kills for art... nobody is every going to accomplish that unless they spend hours upon hours grinding. Then there are things like Bat = 500 kills, Abashai = 400 kills where you can get after running just a few quests. I understand Warforged Titan and Horned Devil might be "worth more", per se, but honestly the numbers are ridiculous.

The mismatched kill counts is always going to happen. I don't think you're ever going to hear about a planning session for a new update where the major goal was to create more quests with Warforged Titans, for example. They were probably only added in the first place because players pointed out that there was a raid and a very few quests where they were encountered, and no MM entry.

But who grinds for MM counts anyway? Picking up a Hell Hound pet would be nice, I guess, but I'm not going to run the few quests or slayers where they are present in any significant numbers just to increase my speed of reaching that goal. It'll happen organically over time, and yeah that might mean years, because you never lose the account level achievements.

[Sweyn]

But who grinds for MM counts anyway? Picking up a Hell Hound pet would be nice, I guess, but I'm not going to run the few quests or slayers where they are present in any significant numbers just to increase my speed of reaching that goal.

Nobody is going to grind for MM counts, that's my entire point. Why set some MM thresholds so high that nobody in the history of DDO will ever reach them?

[The_Human_Cypher]

Nobody is going to grind for MM counts, that's my entire point. Why set some MM thresholds so high that nobody in the history of DDO will ever reach them?

I know if players who grind explorer areas for MM kills or run certain quests to find rare bosses. And I also know of players that have capped every category in the MM.

[Sweyn]

I know if players who grind explorer areas for MM kills or run certain quests to find rare bosses. And I also know of players that have capped every category in the MM.

I stand corrected then. However, I still believe some of the MM thresholds are a little ridiculous.

[The_Human_Cypher]

I stand corrected then. However, I still believe some of the MM thresholds are a little ridiculous.

The MM bar is low for someone with over 50 past lives. :eek:

[Dragavon]

I completely agree. I don't know where SSG comes up with the thresholds for different entries. Seriously. Warforged Titan = 200 kills for art, Horned Devil = 400 kills for art... nobody is every going to accomplish that unless they spend hours upon hours grinding. Then there are things like Bat = 500 kills, Abashai = 400 kills where you can get after running just a few quests. I understand Warforged Titan and Horned Devil might be "worth more", per se, but honestly the numbers are ridiculous.

If you run the defiler raid a few times you will see that the numbers for horned devil are very low. I think I maxed my MM entry for horned devils before I had 20 runs of that raid on any of my characters.

[Sweyn]

If you run the defiler raid a few times you will see that the numbers for horned devil are very low. I think I maxed my MM entry for horned devils before I had 20 runs of that raid on any of my characters.

I've never ran that raid, I guess that explains it.

[Pyed-Pyper]

...stuff....


drow vs elves - somehow drow and elves are coded as different. Someone pointed out that drow don't add to the elf kill count so DDO added drow as drow. Perhaps not a perfect solution, but thumbs up to DDO for addressing a problem in a timely manner. (That happened with the next MM addition, IIRC.)

[Scrapco]

drow vs elves - somehow drow and elves are coded as different.

Who would want to be associated with those light-loving race traitors?!

[Krelar]

drow vs elves - somehow drow and elves are coded as different. Someone pointed out that drow don't add to the elf kill count so DDO added drow as drow. Perhaps not a perfect solution, but thumbs up to DDO for addressing a problem in a timely manner. (That happened with the next MM addition, IIRC.)

Elves were in volume 2, drow were in volume 7, two and a half years later.

EDIT: I had the time frame wrong it was actually closer to 4 years apart.

[Pyed-Pyper]

Elves were in volume 2, drow were in volume 7, two and a half years later.

Drow were added in a timely manner after DDO was told about the issue.

[Nonesuch2008]

I remember the comments at the time something like this -

The community was after both a new MM, and the inclusion of drow. A dev actually posted around that timeframe that they were working on a new MM '...which may or may not include drow', and then the reasoning provided was that there were already a lot of drow in the game to account for & program into the MM. Even well before the addition of additional Forgotten Realms quests with even more drow, this statement made total sense. It was no surprise that drow did not make the next MM release, but instead came in the one of the releases afterward.

[Wonedream]

Love those MMs.

If they add more, the next one should include reapers.... IT MUST...

WE NEED TO KEEP TRACK OF THIS...

It is by far... the most interesting count to follow!!!

And that goes for each type...

How many Carnage Reapers did you kill and one which reaper lvl where they killed...

The more I think about it... Reapers need their very own Monster Manual which would be different, it would tell you how many reapers of which kind you killed on Reaper Skull 1, 2, 3, all the way up to 10.

"I killed 100 carnage reapers on R10, another 511 on R6.... and here is a screen shot to prove it..."

I imagine they would give better rewards then the other manuals... which only makes sense.


Yes to more monster manuals...

And multiply that by the 5th power in regards to a Reaper Manual


REAPER MANUAL please

[The_Human_Cypher]

Love those MMs.

If they add more, the next one should include reapers.... IT MUST...

REAPER MANUAL please

Interesting idea...