mad about wondrous items

[vassilator]

I am not only saddened by this change but actually mad as I had invested real money to buy these items by using shards in AH and now they are garbage. had some shields and armor that now are useless too as I don't play epic and have now become lvl 22 junk as it is useless compared to greens of equal lvl. worse is that the weapons lost the 1.5 which I find strange above lvl 10 as I thought all weapons get a 1.5 multiplier. 1 foot out the door from this game seems realistic with some of these updates. the pally nerf was bad enough. what are they going to entice me with to keep paying to play? also now I have a bunch of shards that I will never use for anything else.

[Soleran100]

I am not only saddened by this change but actually mad as I had invested real money to buy these items by using shards in AH and now they are garbage. had some shields and armor that now are useless too as I don't play epic and have now become lvl 22 junk as it is useless compared to greens of equal lvl. worse is that the weapons lost the 1.5 which I find strange above lvl 10 as I thought all weapons get a 1.5 multiplier. 1 foot out the door from this game seems realistic with some of these updates. the pally nerf was bad enough. what are they going to entice me with to keep paying to play? also now I have a bunch of shards that I will never use for anything else.

While I understand the use of shards to purchase those items, you didn't think for a minute that it would be fixed?

What were they like plus 10 stats etc with no lvl restrictions?

[Livmo]

I am not only saddened by this change but actually mad as I had invested real money to buy these items by using shards in AH and now they are garbage. had some shields and armor that now are useless too as I don't play epic and have now become lvl 22 junk as it is useless compared to greens of equal lvl. worse is that the weapons lost the 1.5 which I find strange above lvl 10 as I thought all weapons get a 1.5 multiplier. 1 foot out the door from this game seems realistic with some of these updates. the pally nerf was bad enough. what are they going to entice me with to keep paying to play? also now I have a bunch of shards that I will never use for anything else.

That was a bug. They should not have had No minimum level. You can't blame them for your purchases. Nobody forced you to make those purchases. If something is too good to be true...

BTW they are not garbage. They were ML 28 and then went to no ML, and now they are ML 14 : ) ) We still win. I love the +10 stat and +10 resistance at ML 14. They still make nice IR gear.

Be more careful with your money in the future. This was obviously not working as intended. You got to exploit the benefit for a long time before they fixed.

[vassilator]

While I understand the use of shards to purchase those items, you didn't think for a minute that it would be fixed?

What were they like plus 10 stats etc with no lvl restrictions?

not really thinking of the +10 items but more the weapons and armor as the items I can craft are now way better at lvl than the Wondrous versions. the whole point of a wondrous item is that its supposed to be a little better than at lvl greens.

[vassilator]

That was a bug. They should not have had No minimum level. You can't blame them for your purchases. Nobody forced you to make those purchases. If something is too good to be true...

BTW they are not garbage. They were ML 28 and then went to no ML, and now they are ML 14 : ) ) We still win. I love the +10 stat and +10 resistance at ML 14. They still make nice IR gear.

Be more careful with your money in the future. This was obviously not working as intended. You got to exploit the benefit for a long time before they fixed.

not the general items but weapons and armor as they are now junk . weapons are nerfed as they get no 1.5 damage mod and armor became lvl 22 and now will never use. all these were min lvl 6 not min lvl 1. lvl 6 armor no worries has same ac as the wondrous items did but the 1 mod they had on them is now useless at lvl 22 .

[Krelar]

That was a bug. They should not have had No minimum level. You can't blame them for your purchases. Nobody forced you to make those purchases. If something is too good to be true...

BTW they are not garbage. They were ML 28 and then went to no ML, and now they are ML 14 : ) ) We still win. I love the +10 stat and +10 resistance at ML 14. They still make nice IR gear.

Be more careful with your money in the future. This was obviously not working as intended. You got to exploit the benefit for a long time before they fixed.

The no ML items definitely needed a fix however...

I had a ML 6 great sword that was +6 1.5W and 4d6 additional damage dice. (So +3 enhancement and +.5W over what you can craft at that level. )

It changed to ML 14 and is now only 1W So it is +1 enhancement but -.5W, -2d6 additional damage, and - whatever third effect (+2 insightful deadly?) I feel like putting on compared to crafting.

At ML 6 it felt "wondrous" without being totally overpowered. At ML 14 it's very much garbage.

[YUTANG75]

I managed to snag a Deadly+10 goggles of wizardry+250 (Not the actual name) for 134k plat with no min level. This must have been around level 16 or so. With the goggles the uplift in DPS was huge and carried me up to 20. I knew it would get fixed eventually (though it didn't when I tried lamannia) but was of course secretly hopeful.
Yesterday I log in and grab them out of my tr cache where they become level 14. Obviously nowhere near as good as before but still a great legacy item.

[Cantor]

Shields and armor took it heavy with enforcement of absolute ml, but it's not like it didn't say absolute ml22 when you bought it. The weapons really should get the +w.

These items were obviously bugged, it sucks to buy something to exploit then see it fixed. But you have to look at it as buying the time you use it before it gets fixed.

[LXP]

Another sad part is, they even nerfed some items that should not have been nerfed at all. Details here.

[Inanout]

Why would they even let bugged items sell on the astral auction? They sell the shards then take back a third. Really it is kind of wrong. I am not mad at the change, but clearly see the dark grey area the op i talking about.

[retrojet]

Yes it was obvious it would eventually be fixed. But the greater issue at hand is that except for a very few power gamers already at the end of all their heroic, iconic, and epic grinds, these items were necessary to play new content at level any more. Yes, the old content is still pretty easy but for all intensive purposes all new content can not be played by 36 point builds without every piece of uber gear acquired (and often no longer even possible to get or raid gear from a raid that is NEVER run, i.e. TORC, SOS, Epic Antique GreatAXE, Epic Abashai Set, DragonTouched, etc...).

I know that I no longer am having fun playing characters with 3 lives and certainly hate playing a New Character (why would any new player put up with all the frustration and abuse heaped on them when they try to join LFM's).

Every time someone comes up wit ha new build to be competitive (not even top performing) for a newer player, the DDO management nerfs it to non-existence (because a few whiny uber players want all the glory- IMO). Almost all decent gear is no longer possible to sell or give to a newer player and these few things like wondrous items (and I am sure all the ICY Burst items suffered the same fate). which were possible to acquire allowing them to at least survive elite content with difficulty and with a full party

Do these power gamers have pictures of developers in compromising positions or do they spend so much more money than the rest of the player base that they are the only ones that matter.

[Thar]

Another sad part is, they even nerfed some items that should not have been nerfed at all. Details here. A level 14 improved smiter is not a nerf as it's not possible at that level even when it was available. If i recall smiting doesn't exist on the loot table anymore at any level too.

[SerPounce]

It was a bug that ya'll exploited and you knew it. Now come the crocodile tears.

The bug was fixed.

[ShifterThePirate]

How can you be mad about bugged items to be fixed? It was your own choice to buy these obvious bugged items with real money/shards. You could have just not buy them or get them from the plat auction house instead.

[Amundir]

But the greater issue at hand is that except for a very few power gamers already at the end of all their heroic, iconic, and epic grinds, these items were necessary to play new content at level any more.

Anyone else find this to be true?

[CThruTheEgo]

Anyone else find this to be true?

Absolutely not.

[Andu_Indorin]

Why would they even let bugged items sell on the astral auction? They sell the shards then take back a third. Really it is kind of wrong. I am not mad at the change, but clearly see the dark grey area the op i talking about.

A PSA that this bug fix was officially in the planning, after years of inaction, might have been provident. Clearly some individuals, having visited Lammania, took advantage of the situation to flood the Shard Exchange with soon to be worthless weapons and equipment. Shame on the greed of those players. And poor public relations -- again! -- from Turbine. Er, SSG.

[scipiojedi]

Anyone else find this to be true?

Nope. My level 23 tank is still wearing his level 8 heroic slaver's set. I have other toons with 0% fort at level 10. Abysmal saves, 0% dodge, dps of a level 5 character. Yet I still manage to quest and level up. The gear just makes it faster or so you won't die. I don't craft. Most of my characters wear RNG/old named items.

[Renvar]

Anyone else find this to be true?

Lol. Nope. People who exploited obviously broken stuff are complaining when it gets fixed and argue it should stay broken so that they can play higher difficulties than they otherwise could?

No tears for the no ML items, terror x-bow/thrower, or wolf build complainers.

[retrojet]

Anyone else find this to be true?

But the real question is are you running any new characters with 0-2 lives only in their belt and only the gear you acquired during that life. Do that and then come back and disagree with my statements. Otherwise, you don't really know how hard it is for a new player today.

Even then, you will have the benefit of all the knowledge we have acquired over time of where to position ourselves that the monsters cant hit you or become confused or where the deadly traps are, etc.. even though you dont have the ability to see the trap because you only have the +3 Korthos spot item because no item you pulled has spot at your level and you cant buy from the auction house because you don't have enough gold yet. That is what a new player is facing. And at elite and hard there are champions that easily can oneshot you with stacking acid damage that stacks over time because you don't have a 200 level guild ship to buff your HP and no guild is offering you to join because you are just a new player. These did not even exist for many of us when we were first playing.

This is why I liked the the Gingerspyce New Druid build YouTube series because that is what he did. Showing it was at least possible for some builds with enough guidance and game knowledge. But also it showed how much harder it is.

This is the environment newer players are in today.

[Amundir]

I'm doing that right now with my character on Argo, a server I've never played seriously.

I disagree with you. Others disagree with you. I believe "except for a very few power gamers" to be hyperbole.

At some point the question has to become, "maybe it's not them. is it me?"

[scipiojedi]

But the real question is are you running any new characters with 0-2 lives only in their belt and only the gear you acquired during that life. Do that and then come back and disagree with my statements. Otherwise, you don't really know how hard it is for a new player today.

.
Yes I do create new characters and level them still.
I know it is difficult for new players - i got two of my friends to join and they get excited when they complete a level 3 quest on hard when they are level 5. They play normal most of the time because hard is, well hard, and elite is just impossible for them. That's the way it should be and I'm ok with it when I run with them we do normal because they have fun in normal and don't like dying all the time in elite.

[Cantor]

But the real question is are you running any new characters with 0-2 lives only in their belt and only the gear you acquired during that life. Do that and then come back and disagree with my statements. Otherwise, you don't really know how hard it is for a new player today.

Even then, you will have the benefit of all the knowledge we have acquired over time of where to position ourselves that the monsters cant hit you or become confused or where the deadly traps are, etc.. even though you dont have the ability to see the trap because you only have the +3 Korthos spot item because no item you pulled has spot at your level and you cant buy from the auction house because you don't have enough gold yet. That is what a new player is facing. And at elite and hard there are champions that easily can oneshot you with stacking acid damage that stacks over time because you don't have a 200 level guild ship to buff your HP and no guild is offering you to join because you are just a new player. These did not even exist for many of us when we were first playing.

This is why I liked the the Gingerspyce New Druid build YouTube series because that is what he did. Showing it was at least possible for some builds with enough guidance and game knowledge. But also it showed how much harder it is.

This is the environment newer players are in today.

The point is a new player should not be in elite or reaper, normal and hard are the playground where you learn. Or are you claiming that anyone can't just pick up anything and play normal?

[Cantor]

Yes I do create new characters and level them still.
I know it is difficult for new players - i got two of my friends to join and they get excited when they complete a level 3 quest on hard when they are level 5. They play normal most of the time because hard is, well hard, and elite is just impossible for them. That's the way it should be and I'm ok with it when I run with them we do normal because they have fun in normal and don't like dying all the time in elite.

+ for both sentiments.

[retrojet]

I'm doing that right now with my character on Argo, a server I've never played seriously.

I disagree with you. Others disagree with you. I believe "except for a very few power gamers" to be hyperbole.

At some point the question has to become, "maybe it's not them. is it me?"

And if you are doing that on a new server, without the benefit of items other than what you pull then you certainly have the right to disagree. And even some of what I say may be hyperbole, but I am trying to say that the game is different now and the gap between newer players and even the average player base is widening to a point that in my opinion makes the game too frustrating for many new players to keep playing. So lend a hand and some positive advice when you meet a new player. Too often these players are met with derision or silence when they ask for help. In some case they may even be too embarrassed to even ask for help, I know I was 4 years when I started. Reach out to them if you see someone having difficulty.

[Amundir]

And if you are doing that on a new server, without the benefit of items other than what you pull then you certainly have the right to disagree. And even some of what I say may be hyperbole, but I am trying to say that the game is different now and the gap between newer players and even the average player base is widening to a point that in my opinion makes the game too frustrating for many new players to keep playing. So lend a hand and some positive advice when you meet a new player. Too often these players are met with derision or silence when they ask for help. In some case they may even be too embarrassed to even ask for help, I know I was 4 years when I started. Reach out to them if you see someone having difficulty.

The issue that you are talking about is addressing the gaming culture, which isn't something easy to "fix". First you gotta agree on what is broken. And I'd wager that not everyone thinks that it is broken. But really that kind of discussion is getting off topic from the OP.

[Cantor]

And if you are doing that on a new server, without the benefit of items other than what you pull then you certainly have the right to disagree. And even some of what I say may be hyperbole, but I am trying to say that the game is different now and the gap between newer players and even the average player base is widening to a point that in my opinion makes the game too frustrating for many new players to keep playing. So lend a hand and some positive advice when you meet a new player. Too often these players are met with derision or silence when they ask for help. In some case they may even be too embarrassed to even ask for help, I know I was 4 years when I started. Reach out to them if you see someone having difficulty.

I have never seen a new player met with anything but courtesy. Where are these people who put down others for being new? I and all those I group with offer help to new players when we meet them.

[Eliyse]

Devs - these are supposed to be "wondrous" items. Just logged and checked how badly some of the items were affected (and I did not have any of the "use at any level" ones - just a L12 sword). And that sword went from L12 to L14, dropped the +0.5W damage that it is *supposed* to have as L10+ weapon, and hardness dropped to 10. "Wondrous"? Seriously? That is worse than OLD rangen, let alone current.
There is nerfing, and there is spiteful.
And then upgrading the Red Fens items and then NOT upgrading any items that you may already have because it is "too difficult". In the same release that downgrades a whole raft of tiems that people have.
That takes it to p*ss-taking levels beyond my ken.
Also, just checked on a crafted SR item - yes, silly me, I was using a crafted L34 Spell Resist item that had some use at high level quests. Not anymore. Any chance of getting a refund on all the rare ingredients it took to make it?
(From VIP that was wondering whether to re-subscribe for another year. With the way this is going, don't think I'll bother.)

[RydeaNikkna]

Quote Originally Posted by retrojet
But the greater issue at hand is that except for a very few power gamers already at the end of all their heroic, iconic, and epic grinds, these items were necessary to play new content at level any more.
----------------------------------
Anyone else find this to be true?

While I don't find the absolute "you must be uber/exploit geared to play the new content" to be true, the "new content" is harder than the older quests, and better gear helps.

I define "new content" as update 25 and later, TOEE, Archon's Trial, Devil's Gambit, New Meridia Quests, Memoirs, Search and Rescue, Good Intentions, Against the Slave Lords, and Tower of Frost. I do find that particular content to be noticeably harder then similarly leveled quests. However "new new content" :P Update 35; Dragonblood Prophecy, and Update 36; The Mines of Tethyamar don't seem to have the same difficulty edge as the others. For example this life doing R1 lvl 15 quests, we got through the Missing line with a couple deaths, we got to search and rescue and wiped, twice, dropped to Elite and had 4 re-entries just to finish it. We were using Level 10 Cannith Crafted gear, and had lvl 16 crafted waiting for us. So, Yes, having better gear would make it easier to get through the "new content" but if you had better gear for that, the older content would be even easier.

In my opinion getting better gear is part of the game. Gather ingredients to make your own, farm for that named item, get xp along the way, make your toon better with past lives and tomes... If you choose to use exploits know they will be fixed, designing your build around an exploit is a bad idea (I'm guilty of that, cause I was jealous of someone else's build, it sounded too good to be true, I tried it, and it was) and now that it's fixed I'll pay the price and reincarnate out of it.

[Phoenicis]

But the real question is are you running any new characters with 0-2 lives only in their belt and only the gear you acquired during that life. Do that and then come back and disagree with my statements. Otherwise, you don't really know how hard it is for a new player today.

Even then, you will have the benefit of all the knowledge we have acquired over time of where to position ourselves that the monsters cant hit you or become confused or where the deadly traps are, etc.. even though you dont have the ability to see the trap because you only have the +3 Korthos spot item because no item you pulled has spot at your level and you cant buy from the auction house because you don't have enough gold yet. That is what a new player is facing. And at elite and hard there are champions that easily can oneshot you with stacking acid damage that stacks over time because you don't have a 200 level guild ship to buff your HP and no guild is offering you to join because you are just a new player. These did not even exist for many of us when we were first playing.

This is why I liked the the Gingerspyce New Druid build YouTube series because that is what he did. Showing it was at least possible for some builds with enough guidance and game knowledge. But also it showed how much harder it is.

This is the environment newer players are in today.

Do it all the time.

I have four or five first life chars I duo with my GF, cause she likes playing different characters all the time, not sticking with one, So if she makes a new one so do I.

Some gear might get moved, if I happen across a named or lootgen item that is ideal for the char, or we farm something for one of hers with higher level toons. We also have a pair that is on their third heroic class, and a pair that is on their second racial life.

But no, for the most part ideal gear isn't required. A duo partner makes things ALOT easier...

[sk3l3t0r]

That was a bug. They should not have had No minimum level. You can't blame them for your purchases. Nobody forced you to make those purchases. If something is too good to be true...

BTW they are not garbage. They were ML 28 and then went to no ML, and now they are ML 14 : ) ) We still win. I love the +10 stat and +10 resistance at ML 14. They still make nice IR gear.

Be more careful with your money in the future. This was obviously not working as intended. You got to exploit the benefit for a long time before they fixed.

same, loved it when they had no ML, but now even with ML 14 my +10 CHA / +10 vs saves goggles and my +10 STR / 10% dodge trinket are still nice TR twink gear items.

[SerPounce]

But the real question is are you running any new characters with 0-2 lives only in their belt and only the gear you acquired during that life. Do that and then come back and disagree with my statements. Otherwise, you don't really know how hard it is for a new player today.

Even then, you will have the benefit of all the knowledge we have acquired over time of where to position ourselves that the monsters cant hit you or become confused or where the deadly traps are, etc.. even though you dont have the ability to see the trap because you only have the +3 Korthos spot item because no item you pulled has spot at your level and you cant buy from the auction house because you don't have enough gold yet. That is what a new player is facing. And at elite and hard there are champions that easily can oneshot you with stacking acid damage that stacks over time because you don't have a 200 level guild ship to buff your HP and no guild is offering you to join because you are just a new player. These did not even exist for many of us when we were first playing.

This is why I liked the the Gingerspyce New Druid build YouTube series because that is what he did. Showing it was at least possible for some builds with enough guidance and game knowledge. But also it showed how much harder it is.

This is the environment newer players are in today.

Maybe more should be done to help newer players, but not fixing bugs and exploits is a terrible way of doing it.

If you play on Sarlona I can invite you to a lvl 200 guild. I can't imagine other servers don't have newb friendly large guilds also.

If elite and hard are to difficult, try normal or casual. On my first toons when I started playing I rarely ran stuff over normal unless I was in a good group.

[CThruTheEgo]

But the real question is are you running any new characters with 0-2 lives only in their belt and only the gear you acquired during that life. Do that and then come back and disagree with my statements. Otherwise, you don't really know how hard it is for a new player today.

^This is a far extreme from your original statement, which was:


But the greater issue at hand is that except for a very few power gamers already at the end of all their heroic, iconic, and epic grinds, these items were necessary to play new content at level any more. Yes, the old content is still pretty easy but for all intensive purposes all new content can not be played by 36 point builds without every piece of uber gear acquired (and often no longer even possible to get or raid gear from a raid that is NEVER run, i.e. TORC, SOS, Epic Antique GreatAXE, Epic Abashai Set, DragonTouched, etc...).

I get the point you are trying to make, but you don't help your argument by constructing it with such extreme examples. You went from saying that new content cannot be completed at level without teh uber max build and gear and then tried to defend that claim against opposition by saying that the newest of newbs can't complete that same content. There's a huge middle ground in between those two extremes which you have glossed over.


I am trying to say that the game is different now and the gap between newer players and even the average player base is widening to a point that in my opinion makes the game too frustrating for many new players to keep playing.

^This is true, but has been for a very long time now. And this is also a separate issue from talking about bugged, no min-level, over-powered items. Do you honestly think that the newest of newbs were the ones who were acquiring and benefiting from these items? Not likely, because, to use your own words:


you cant buy from the auction house because you don't have enough gold yet. That is what a new player is facing.

Most likely, it was players who have been around a while and saw an obviously bugged item and decided to take the chance to benefit from it for however long it would take SSG to correct the issue. And let's face it, Turbine/SSG has a very spotty history with fixing broken things. It could very well have been years before these were fixed. Furthermore, if it was more long time players who were buying these items up and not new players, then these items only served to widen the gap between new and old players, not shrink it.


So lend a hand and some positive advice when you meet a new player. Too often these players are met with derision or silence when they ask for help. In some case they may even be too embarrassed to even ask for help, I know I was 4 years when I started. Reach out to them if you see someone having difficulty.

And this is a totally separate issue from the power disparity you previously mentioned. I completely agree with you on this. New players are an endangered species in this game and the community needs to take every step we can to see that every member of that species is given the space to grow and flourish, but allowing bugged over-powered items which new players were probably never benefiting from in the first place is not the answer.

[Graskitch]

The no ML items definitely needed a fix however...

I had a ML 6 great sword that was +6 1.5W and 4d6 additional damage dice. (So +3 enhancement and +.5W over what you can craft at that level. )

It changed to ML 14 and is now only 1W So it is +1 enhancement but -.5W, -2d6 additional damage, and - whatever third effect (+2 insightful deadly?) I feel like putting on compared to crafting.

At ML 6 it felt "wondrous" without being totally overpowered. At ML 14 it's very much garbage.

yeah I agree with this.

The reason why "wondrous craftsmanship" items stopped dropping in wheloon and storm horns (they were changed to masterful craftsmanship drops a few updates ago), was because of that bug after an update that caused wondrous jewelry/clothing to lose their minimum levels (whereas previously they had been ML26, they now had the same enchantments without minimum level). The recent update to patch them back to either ML14 or ML26 was fine and necessary.

The wondrous weapons though - I am not sure why that was changed/patched in any way - there did not seem to be anything exploitable about them. There was nothing in the wondrous weapons descriptions that indicated that there was anything broken about them. They were just decent weapons which had really good enchantments available at a lower level; they actually were wondrous - they inspired delight in the possible combinations of random gen loot.

The wondrous armors/shields - those were feycraft/magecraft/celestial in material and did indicate an absolute minimum level in their description which was being bypassed. There was a lot of community forum discussion whether these were WAI or not, and apparently (ultimately) it was not (there were arguments in past forum threads about how the enchantments at ML22 or ML26 for those armors/shields would make them not wondrous at all but rather worthless). It would have been nice if Turbine (at the time) had put out a definite statement that they were not WAI. The way that the armors/shields functioned at the lower level really did make them wondrous.

but yeah, now those wondrous armors/shields are basically worthless, and you are not even able to disjunct/craft onto them for their unique appearances.

what is the point of calling an item "wondrous" if they are obsolete at their minimum level?

Wondrous Craftsmanship felt like an attempt in the Wheloon and Storm Horns loot to give an opportunity for rare random combination enchantment levels, and it is gone now. It was a good way to attract people into the Shadowfell expansion, because most of the named loot from Wheloon/Storm Horns is obsolete (very soon after it was released too).

It would be nice at some point if they brought back Wondrous Craftsmanship to bring in rare super enchantments/enhancements available at a lower minimum level. because the way masterful craftsmanship functions currently in random gen (as others have pointed out before), the range of the random gen values is so wide that masterful craftsmanship generally means nothing. Sure, there can be some nice random gen loot items that drop, but most of it can be Cannith crafted if you have a high enough crafting level. It would be nice to see some wondrous random gen that cannot be crafted. It sure would restore for me a sense of value for top tier random gen loot.

[Drakiz]

not really thinking of the +10 items but more the weapons and armor as the items I can craft are now way better at lvl than the Wondrous versions. the whole point of a wondrous item is that its supposed to be a little better than at lvl greens.

I do agree the items did need a propper level requirement, for +10 stat wonderous item.

But Cannith crafting
+7 Stat+3 insight stat, is min level 13. witch equals a +10 stat item.
True you could zerg it and go combine with an insight stat item, to on the +10, but they are not btc.

IF wonderous items, should be better, remove btc, to bta or non-bind.

Or adjust the minimum lvl to 9-12. So it is slightly better than cannith crafted.

Regards
Drakiz

[Arkai]

Reading all this, I wonder... what happened to the ML6 wondrous items? Was that a bug? Are they gone forever?

[zehnvhex]

Those are fixed now too.

As someone who used to play EverQuest back in the day, I'm kinda glad they went this route with fixing it. As much fun as it was being someone who had a pre-nerf CoS, manastone, etc...etc... it was also pretty broken and just furthered the have/have not divide.

[Kza]

Items changed that were bugged/op. And ppl cry about that??
Try instead play the game a tad better and you will do ok even
Without items clearly not working as intended.

Its great ssg nerf and buff stuff and do bugfixes.

Are some of you ppl real or just trolls?

[DrawingGuy]

I'm actually surprised they changed them to ML 14 - I fully expected them to either revert to the old and useless ML 28, or 20/21 to match 10 stat random/crafted loot. ML 14 is at least competitive for in slot, especially for those that can't afford Insightful abilities. I do think they could have afforded to go as low as level 10 in the current game, but they're far from useless. Though the change didn't affect me much - I deleted my stockpile of Wonderous items back in u29 as they were trash compared to similar level items, and was taking a break for most of the exploit time.

As for the discussion as to these items actually being needed at level 1, that's BS. The game is very different than it was in the early days. Random loot is much more powerful, so throwing on whatever is stronger than a toon with carefully farmed named gear from years ago. The AH plat economy is dead, so you can find gear rather cheap - before ASAH and duping happened, anything you wanted you could expect to pay 5-6 figures for in plat, and a new player can't afford that... now they can find stuff in more likely in a new player's price range. Of course there are ship buffs, augments, potions, hirelings, etc - none of which a new player is restricted from.

The barrier of entry on this game is NOT gear, but rather the steep learning curve. I know the game very well - know the traps, where to go, etc. I've rolled brand new toons on multiple occasions, and have never struggled. I don't even bother with gear and run around naked on my first few levels because you can hit 4/5 so quickly, why take up bank space or go through the effort? And knowing quests is only a small portion of the game. Knowing how to efficiently build a toon with your millions of options, knowing how guilds work, knowing how the myriad of crafting systems works, knowing where you can find certain scrolls and potions... the list goes on. And when you do start factoring gear, that too requires the knowledge of what you can find on gear, what slots they can come on, what named gear options there are - I've helped many new players, and I've often seen where they've been missing things that would greatly help their toon and duplicate stats because they don't know where else to find a certain thing on an item.

So, yeah, no ML Wonderous items is not the barrier for new players making it or not.

[Enoach]

.... But the greater issue at hand is that except for a very few power gamers already at the end of all their heroic, iconic, and epic grinds, these items were necessary to play new content at level any more. ...[QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Amundir;5995781]Anyone else find this to be true?

I can say no I do not find that to be true.

I had acquired 4 items, A Heavy Mace ML6, Scale Armor ML6 97 Light Power, Cloak ML1 with +10 Charisma w/ +10 Resistance and Belt ML +10 Constitution w/+10 Protection

The Armor is ML6 with AML 22. Sure 97 spell power for light is great for levels 6 to 20 and Ok from 20 to 23. So while not as useful still useful.

The Heavy Mace - Still have not looked at it since it is still in TR Cache at this time as I didn't use it.

The Cloak and Belt are now ML 14. +10 to an Attribute is still nice from level 14+

---
I should state that I expected these items to be "fixed". I was around when the End Reward for the Madness Chain (the level 17 one) would drop Rings with no minimum level popular twink items for a stretch of DDO history.

Next they told us they were going to fix it, in fact I think they last said something back in June. So this should not have been a surprise.

@OP - I understand you being upset by your investment not panning out for a longer time. But you did get some value out of them (as long as you didn't buy them the day before U36 that is).

[vassilator]

Devs - these are supposed to be "wondrous" items. Just logged and checked how badly some of the items were affected (and I did not have any of the "use at any level" ones - just a L12 sword). And that sword went from L12 to L14, dropped the +0.5W damage that it is *supposed* to have as L10+ weapon, and hardness dropped to 10. "Wondrous"? Seriously? That is worse than OLD rangen, let alone current.
There is nerfing, and there is spiteful.
And then upgrading the Red Fens items and then NOT upgrading any items that you may already have because it is "too difficult". In the same release that downgrades a whole raft of tiems that people have.
That takes it to p*ss-taking levels beyond my ken.
Also, just checked on a crafted SR item - yes, silly me, I was using a crafted L34 Spell Resist item that had some use at high level quests. Not anymore. Any chance of getting a refund on all the rare ingredients it took to make it?
(From VIP that was wondering whether to re-subscribe for another year. With the way this is going, don't think I'll bother.)

this is exactly *** I was talking about . I wouldn't care if they went from lvl 6 to lvl 14 but don't make them weaker and the armor and shields are now entirely useless to me as I don't do epic but they are useless as if you compared them to same lvl green stuff it would be several lvls lower than the green . key word here is wondrous. it should say less than average as of now so we are all clear.

[vassilator]

I think some of you are missing the point here. I understand they had to change the min lvl and I had +10 str/50hp bracers that went to lvl 14 I am totally ok with something like that but here is the problem the weapons were lvl 6 and yes truly wondrous as they had 1.5 weapon damage and 1 additional random bonus. I would be ok again if at lvl 14 they had their 1.5 damage bonus but they don't which does anything but make them wondrous. the armor and shields are the worst as they went from lvl 6 to 22 and the random effect they had is totally useless at lvl 22 as I can craft better stuff at that lvl but I DONT PLAY EPIC which makes them **** to me now. I don't come on the forums and blast the devs unless they blow an update and HELLOOOOOO they did with this. its just too bad that I renewed my yearly vip 1 month ago . they really know how to drive some people away . its getting harder and harder to find people to play with and then they start messing stuff up to make it an unpleasant experience for the ones that stay .. I am almost at the end with this as pally nerf was my first foot out the door.

[LXP]

Anyone else find this to be true?

Not me.

[CaptainPurge]

Remove the "Wondrous" qualifier.

[HuneyMunster]

Has anyone run Stormhorns or even Wheloon and seen wondrous items again in chain end rewards?

[dunklezhan]

But the real question is are you running any new characters with 0-2 lives only in their belt and only the gear you acquired during that life. Do that and then come back and disagree with my statements. Otherwise, you don't really know how hard it is for a new player today.


Most of my characters are life 1, a few at life 2 and two at life 3. Its possible that my artificer is life 4 but I don't think so.

I find the new (anything post MOTU) content very difficult indeed on my preferred HE or EH. It seems to me that the newer quests are not even close in difficulty to older ones, and quest level is no longer even a slightly useful indicator of how hard a quest is going to be. Honestly, if the current difficulty on Normal is supposed to be the standard, they need to take anything older than MOTU and lower its quest level by at least two.

So I tend to play newer quests on a lower difficulty, or skip them entirely (for the sake of my BB but also because normal difficulty still feels like cheating even in the newer stuff), unless I have friends online. Note however that I still find Shavarath difficult. I don't know how typical that is even amongst casual players.

I've never had any of these ML zero items I keep hearing about. My understanding was that these were bugged, so there seemed little point going after them. Unfortunately, generally speaking new loot may as well be off limits to me due to the quest difficulty issues I mention above so I'm always using stuff that's way under level or alternatively very old loot. I probably could get the new loot if I ground my face off on normal but that's boring.

[Graskitch]

Has anyone run Stormhorns or even Wheloon and seen wondrous items again in chain end rewards?

I will have to try running the chain to see...

After wondrous items jewelry/clothing had become broken (without minimum level), they had eliminated wondrous items from dropping in Stormhorns and Wheloon; they were replaced instead with masterful craftsmanship identifier (although the items themselves had the icon appearance of wondrous).

It will be interesting to see if they restored wondrous drops after update 36, although I think it is unlikely. but I do remember that after the change a few updates ago, some people reported that the Wheloon and Storm Horns chain rewards lists were broken so that sometimes, they would only get one item on the reward list. Maybe this was looked into for update 36.

I will report back after running the chain. I would be delighted if wondrous items were dropping again, even if they are the ML14 items that they were currently patched into.

it just would be nice though if we were able to disjunct/craft onto them again now that they have fixed the minimum level issue.

[Niminae]

Yes it was obvious it would eventually be fixed. But the greater issue at hand is that except for a very few power gamers already at the end of all their heroic, iconic, and epic grinds, these items were necessary to play new content at level any more. Yes, the old content is still pretty easy but for all intensive purposes all new content can not be played by 36 point builds without every piece of uber gear acquired (and often no longer even possible to get or raid gear from a raid that is NEVER run, i.e. TORC, SOS, Epic Antique GreatAXE, Epic Abashai Set, DragonTouched, etc...).

I do not have a heroic, epic, or iconic completionist. I have zero racial past lives. My most advanced character has a Torc, a SOS, an Antique Greataxe (missing the shard), Epic Abashai Set (not updated yet but I have all the s/s/s needed). I don't have any dragontouched items even though I enjoy that chain, because the stuff is not at all appealing to me. I probably have enough of the mats to make a couple items but I really haven't even looked into it.

The Torc I got almost entirely by soloing the pre-raid and raid. Because this is a raid that you can solo at level on elite. And then keep re-playing it every 3 days until you hit your 20th completion and get your ~60% shot at a Torc (do the 20th on Heroic for the best chance of base items appearing, and on Elite for the only chance of seals being offered). It's not at all a matter of this being a raid that isn't run anymore, because you can solo it. It's only a matter of you wanting the item and putting in the time to get it.

The same applies for the Antique Greataxe: If you want it, you can get it. Solo. It's a chain reward and will always be in the third repetition of the chain. Pulling the shard is a different matter, but this is also a thing that you can solo if you want to shoot for it. This isn't a raid, it's just a quest that you can solo. All it takes is the time put in and the will on your part to do so.

And the same applies to an Abashai Set. The heroic set is trivial to get, and the epic raid is not so difficult that you can't solo it. A lot of my completions there were from posting an 'ip' LFM up and then people would join because the raid is still decent XP. Being able to solo that in epics for me took being over-level for a long while, but that's fine. There's no over-level penalty to the XP and the chances at shards and seals is the same regardless of your level. So again the only thing missing is the will to get it done. After collecting all of those seals and shards (and I never got to a 20th list, which is achievable if you put in the time) I found that the Epic set wasn't terribly worthwhile to create due to item power level creep, and would be BtC while the heroic items can sit on a bank mule, so I have not bothered. YMMV.

The SOS does require a group. But it is also a raid which gives a lot of XP (in the pre-raid) and so it shouldn't be terribly difficult to find people willing to join you if you post a LFM. I have the SOS but I'm missing all of the s/s/s for the ESOS, and I wouldn't ever make the ESOS unless I had two of the SOS in any event.

I managed to get almost all of the items you mentioned, mostly solo, while playing on Wayfinder where seeing more than one or two LFMs posted is abnormal. If you are on a more populous server and can't do the same, I'm afraid that I find that the fault is not in your stars but in yourself.


The no ML items definitely needed a fix however...

I had a ML 6 great sword that was +6 1.5W and 4d6 additional damage dice. (So +3 enhancement and +.5W over what you can craft at that level. )

It changed to ML 14 and is now only 1W So it is +1 enhancement but -.5W, -2d6 additional damage, and - whatever third effect (+2 insightful deadly?) I feel like putting on compared to crafting.

At ML 6 it felt "wondrous" without being totally overpowered. At ML 14 it's very much garbage.

So now you can run the Sharn Syndicate chain for a guaranteed offer of ~4 of the named weapons from that list per completion, with all of them offered on the third completion. Check out the U36 Nicked Greatsword as it compares to your now-ML14 greatsword, and then maybe go farm one up for your low level two-handed hack and slash enjoyment. Or maybe look into a Carnifex.

[Niminae]

So lend a hand and some positive advice when you meet a new player. Too often these players are met with derision or silence when they ask for help. In some case they may even be too embarrassed to even ask for help, I know I was 4 years when I started. Reach out to them if you see someone having difficulty.

I've seen plenty of derision or silence (mostly derision, it's hard to see silence) on the forums, but I've never seen it in game. And you and I have been playing for about the same amount of time.

[Fedora1]

How can you be mad about bugged items to be fixed? It was your own choice to buy these obvious bugged items with real money/shards. You could have just not buy them or get them from the plat auction house instead.

I am in the same boat as the OP. Here are a few things to consider:

1. I am not a power gamer, I don't know about all the bugs and exploits that everyone on the forums seems to "wink wink" talk about all the time.
2. I am not talking about anything with no ML and +10 stats. I have never seen such an item anywhere, not on the forum and not in the AH or anywhere else in game.
3. The items I am referring to are ML6 weapons that are +6 items with 1.5W and a random 4d6 effect. Powerful - yes. Out of this world game-breaking - no. They are also BTC on equip, vs. the ML7 TOEE weapons which are BTA (and which are +3 items with 1.5W, several effects, and augment slot plus a possible mythic bonus to MP etc).
4. These items - WONDROUS items mind you - have now lost their 1.5W and are ML14. This is worse than random loot of the same level.

[HuneyMunster]

Something Ive notice that since the fix wondrous items still only have 10 hardiness and 10 durability.

[Fedora1]

Most of my characters are life 1, a few at life 2 and two at life 3. Its possible that my artificer is life 4 but I don't think so.

I find the new (anything post MOTU) content very difficult indeed on my preferred HE or EH. It seems to me that the newer quests are not even close in difficulty to older ones, and quest level is no longer even a slightly useful indicator of how hard a quest is going to be. Honestly, if the current difficulty on Normal is supposed to be the standard, they need to take anything older than MOTU and lower its quest level by at least two.

So I tend to play newer quests on a lower difficulty, or skip them entirely (for the sake of my BB but also because normal difficulty still feels like cheating even in the newer stuff), unless I have friends online. Note however that I still find Shavarath difficult. I don't know how typical that is even amongst casual players.

I've never had any of these ML zero items I keep hearing about. My understanding was that these were bugged, so there seemed little point going after them. Unfortunately, generally speaking new loot may as well be off limits to me due to the quest difficulty issues I mention above so I'm always using stuff that's way under level or alternatively very old loot. I probably could get the new loot if I ground my face off on normal but that's boring.

Your situation seems quite similar to mine. I have been playing about the same amount of time (unless your Join Date is inaccurate like mine - I started in late 2009). My main has 8 heroic past lives, 5 epic and 2 iconic but I don't have much raid gear - a couple items from raider's reward box and such, my best stuff is Thunderforged for epic or TOEE stuff for heroic. I also skip many of the newer quests until I am a couple levels over and then run them on hard - I could do them on hard at-level or elite over-level but I am usually too tired to have to pay that much attention to tactics and such.

[SpiderPig]

Something Ive notice that since the fix wondrous items still only have 10 hardiness and 10 durability.

Yes I've noticed that too, I had no issue with the level change on the items. But why leave the durability/hardness at 10, which is the same as a level 0/1 item?

[LightBear]

Anyone else find this to be true?
Sadly, yes.

It's just another "let's kick away the ladder" scenario.

[OzDrew]

Yes I've noticed that too, I had no issue with the level change on the items. But why leave the durability/hardness at 10, which is the same as a level 0/1 item?

Yes, this has pretty much ruined my deadly accuracy cloak and necklace as I play melees and as soon as a mob looks at me suspiciously they are broken. To add insult to injury the cloak was NOT a 0 ML item, it was ML 28 until this happened. I also have no problem with the level changes, obviously.

[minorpenthes]

And then upgrading the Red Fens items and then NOT upgrading any items that you may already have because it is "too difficult". In the same release that downgrades a whole raft of tiems that people have.
That takes it to p*ss-taking levels beyond my ken.

Strange...

That incredibly cack-handed "fix" of handwraps managed to affect items I already had (including breaking items that were BTC on equip). One might really wonder at times how much mickey there is a need to stockpile on the part of certain individuals...