Help save Shifty!

[C-Dog]

Here's a challenge, for those so inclined...

DISCLAIMER: This build has, so far, been largely unplanned, but here I am. I don't know if I'll get any help here, but it can't hurt. And you're welcome to laugh - I have to. ;)

Shifty started off as a disposable L4 favor runner (to tow sponges and then farm WW for a mithral shield), then became a permanent mule (when I noticed that he had earned himself close to enough Kundarak favor), and then kinda took on a life of his own, running whenever I found only LFG's beneath the level of my main. As he leveled, I just grabbed whatever looked handy at the time (and Rog required no thought). But now he's hitting level 10, and, well, I'm either gonna delete him or gotta come up with a plan...

Originally built as a simple Level 4 2HF Str build, w/ Traps, w/ Barbarian for Barbarian Power Attack boost, and Bard for CLW/etc plus Warchanter's Skaldic Rage (longer lasting, QoL choice). Starting stats and current feats/enhancements are irrelevant, happy to reset them all. Use the Lesser HoW and call it a win, whatever it takes. He won't be everything he could be, but that'll be part of the charm...

(Fwiw, I had originally gone Power Attack, Cleave/GC, I2HF - but Bard + 2HF is not the most synergetic, esp by the time you hit Lvl 10, turns out.) :rolleyes: :D


This is what's not changeable:


Currently Level 9 (10 banked)
Human
32 point build

L1: Rog 1
L2: Barb 1
L3: Bard 1 (orig for Skaldic Rage + CLW/etc.)
L4: Barb 2 (faster mules is better mules)
L5-9: Rog 2-6 (orig R2 to trap at his level, then... just cuz it was always easier than thinking about Barb/Bard.) :/

I had been thinking of adding Rogue Levels and making him a Rogue 13/Bb+Bd 5 stick fighter - never tried staffs. (PA + Great Cleave + TA Cleave + Trip ftw?) There's some low-hanging fruit in both Warchanter and Swashbuckler that could add in, but same can be said for Ravager/Frenzied B'r, and with Mechanic - I can't grab it all...

Not sure about going w/ Bard from here out - SWF, lack of AoE crimps my playstyle. And Barbarian... nah. :/

Have Harper, if that helps. Epic is a looong way off for this one, so let's not worry ~too~ much about anything past 18. And Reaper is irrelevant too - if can do, great, but low priority for this one. ;)

Like I said, I don't expect any optimization, not at this point - but if we can get him so he could get to 18, that'd rock.

TIA!

[GeoffWatson]

Here's a challenge, for those so inclined...

DISCLAIMER: This build has, so far, been largely unplanned, but here I am. I don't know if I'll get any help here, but it can't hurt. And you're welcome to laugh - I have to. ;)

Shifty started off as a disposable L4 favor runner (to tow sponges and then farm WW for a mithral shield), then became a permanent mule (when I noticed that he had earned himself close to enough Kundarak favor), and then kinda took on a life of his own, running whenever I found only LFG's beneath the level of my main. As he leveled, I just grabbed whatever looked handy at the time (and Rog required no thought). But now he's hitting level 10, and, well, I'm either gonna delete him or gotta come up with a plan...

Originally built as a simple Level 4 2HF Str build, w/ Traps, w/ Barbarian for Barbarian Power Attack boost, and Bard for CLW/etc plus Warchanter's Skaldic Rage (longer lasting, QoL choice). Starting stats and current feats/enhancements are irrelevant, happy to reset them all. Use the Lesser HoW and call it a win, whatever it takes. He won't be everything he could be, but that'll be part of the charm...

(Fwiw, I had originally gone Power Attack, Cleave/GC, I2HF - but Bard + 2HF is not the most synergetic, esp by the time you hit Lvl 10, turns out.) :rolleyes: :D


This is what's not changeable:


Currently Level 9 (10 banked)
Human
32 point build

L1: Rog 1
L2: Barb 1
L3: Bard 1 (orig for Skaldic Rage + CLW/etc.)
L4: Barb 2 (faster mules is better mules)
L5-9: Rog 2-6 (orig R2 to trap at his level, then... just cuz it was always easier than thinking about Barb/Bard.) :/

I had been thinking of adding Rogue Levels and making him a Rogue 13/Bb+Bd 5 stick fighter - never tried staffs. (PA + Great Cleave + TA Cleave + Trip ftw?) There's some low-hanging fruit in both Warchanter and Swashbuckler that could add in, but same can be said for Ravager/Frenzied B'r, and with Mechanic - I can't grab it all...

Not sure about going w/ Bard from here out - SWF, lack of AoE crimps my playstyle. And Barbarian... nah. :/

Have Harper, if that helps. Epic is a looong way off for this one, so let's not worry ~too~ much about anything past 18. And Reaper is irrelevant too - if can do, great, but low priority for this one. ;)

Like I said, I don't expect any optimization, not at this point - but if we can get him so he could get to 18, that'd rock.

TIA!

If you go stick build, get Elemental Bloom from ToEE. It's the best non-epic staff available.

[C-Dog]

Somehow, I doubt you had to quote my entire post to make that suggestion. Thx, though (altho' I'm Premium, and don't (yet) own ToEE).

[cru121]

I have played a frenzied swashee trapper a while ago

Shadar-kai rogue 2 / bard 3 / barbarian 12 (not sure about the rest of levels)
- T5 in.... Frenzied Berserker for accelerated metabolism (passive heal over time when raged - probably sucks in reaper - this was before reaper)
- Strength based, supreme cleave for some AoE fun
- I also grabbed Ear Smash/Knock Out for no save stun
- enh split: 30+ in FrB, 21ish in OS (for fourth core), 11ish swash, 6 in ravager
- feats: Power Attack, SWF x3, Improved Crit, IIRC shield masteries

EDIT: but you already have 6 rogue levels so I should learn to read.

[C-Dog]

EDIT: but you already have 6 rogue levels so I should learn to read.
Meh, with the exception of Barb Lvl 12 Cores (which are nice, I admit! but not 'til end-game heroics), I could get the rest. Thanks, I'll consider it!

[C-Dog]

Still working on this problem, but it's... well, non-intuitive, let's just leave it at that. :rolleyes:


(For those who missed the OP, he started as a mule, then grew without a plan, and at Level 10 I'd ~rather~ not just delete him. So it's the Lesser Heart of Wood, and he's stuck with:

Human
1. Rogue
2. Barbarian
3. Bard
4. Barbarian
5-9 Rogue

He won't be anything near optimized, I'm just hoping to reach "good nuff".)

I like Trapping (and with a name like "Shifty"...), so I'm thinking Rogue will be the dominant class. He's already almost there anyway.

I was hoping to cobble together some Dex-based stick build, but I ~think~ the only intersection with Barbarian and Bard is in Rage, and that means a Strength build. Fortunately, "stick" can be done Dex or Strength, so atm I'm leaning that way...

Currently, I have about 2/3 of his points in the TA tree, which leaves 20+ to spread around, looking for low-hanging fruit. Some into Warchanter, some into Ravager, some... nm, already overspent points. :/

I'll put the build up later for review, once I make some coin tosses.

[Selvera]

So you have 3 classes already; so you can't just level out with warlock (or whatever) to get you to 20. Which mean's you're down to 3 classes you can pick; so let's look at these classes:

your current split: 6 rogue, 2 barbarian, 1 bard

Rogue:
General: 1 level grants the ability to do traps, 2 levels grant evasion
Assassin: Dual wield focused on dexterity or intelligence, much of the power comes from the tier 5 enhancements, the level 18 core and the level 20 core. You cannot get the latter cores, so this might not be a great build to focus on.
Mechanic: Ranged combat utilizing intelligence with some great low-hanging fruit for trappers. much of the power again comes from tier 5 enhancements, and the level 18 and 20 cores. Again might not be the best build to focus on, unless you want to be ranged.
Thief Acrobat: THF with quarterstaffs. Utilizes strength or dexterity and specializes in attackspeed and doublestrike. Power fairly evenly distributed through the tree, with good options at low tiers, mid tiers and high tiers of enhancements.

Barbarian:
General: 1 level gives you fast movement and rage. More levels makes rage better, grant defense in medium armour and more easily sustainable on a permanent basis.
Frenzied Berserker: THF tree focused on glancing blows and cleaves. Much of the power comes from supreme cleave (Tier 3) and the core abilities.
Occult Slayer: Relatively defensive tree (for barbarian) focused controlling your own HP and thwarting enemy casters. As a tree it's generally better the deeper you go in it. (Maybe not the best since you can't get the later cores, which account for a significant amount of the power).
Ravager: Melee tree good for most melee fighting styles. Much of the power comes from improved power attack (tier 1), and blood strength + critical rage (tier 5). Makes a good case for being tier 5s that you want to pick if you get enough con to keep rage up most of the time.

Bard:
General: Umm... they got some really nice buff spells at later levels that might be worth cherrypicking. Or maybe not.
Spellsinger: Caster tree with lots of bonuses to DC's and some casting DPS stuff that's good for casters... which doesn't do well with your other classes and doesn't do well with losing a bunch of levels in non-casting classes. Best not to focus on this tree. Spell song trance and sustaining song are nice and UMD is good, but maybe not worth the investment.
Warchanter: Melee tree that works with any fighting style, has some defensive stuff and works in light or medium armour. Much of the power comes from the Frozen Frenzy (tier 4) as a good form of CC, but the auras and buffs to inspire courage are also pretty nice. Also the Tier 5 isn't bad, so look at it when considering what's worth it.
Swashbucker: SWF tree with light armour and specific weapon restrictions. Some synergy with rogue levels, not much synergy with barbarian besides some builds that are built around using specific weapons that benefit from both swashbuckling and critical rage for good critical profiles. For example; Rapier becomes 13-20 x3 when swash-buckled during a critical rage. (better then 15-20 x3 the usual swash critical profile).

Take from that what you will to make a good build. My first suggestion would probably be combining Frenzied Berserker, Warchanter and Theif Acrobat for a strength-based power-attacking raging berzerker in either light armour (evasion) or medium armour (defense). However a swashbuckling frenzied berserker could work, or a few other ideas might turn out well.

And a fair number of trees have some good low-hanging fruit that could be considered. Poisoned weapons from assassin and skill boost from mechanic are good examples of this. Also 1 point in warchanter is the cheapest +1 con you'll ever pick up on a split like this (unless the rage is more valuable for you).

[C-Dog]

First, thanks for the input - I've looked at it all before, but that sums it up in a nutshell, and helps to see someone else spell it out.

I've tried to tackle this several times, but find mostly dead ends and equally unappealing alternatives. :P But, some conclusions...


o He's headed to HR at 20, almost certainly into a Festival/Cannith Farmer (and pro'ly a Monk). That means that, of the 4 past lives he can grab (Barb, Bard, Rogue, or Human I), Rogue is the most useful. So at least a Dominant Class of Rogue.

o As a first life, if he tries for raw DPS he'll be at best a glass cannon, at worst still a fail. So along w/ DPS, he needs CC and survivability. So Tripping pops up as the best option.

o The Str aspect of Barbarian doesn't mesh well w/ the Dex needed for Sweeps DC's. So he has to go Dex, and we just accept that all the pretty +Str enhancements of Barb are only a trap (if only b/c of the corner I've painted myself into).

So, if I'm not overlooking anything obvious*, I'm looking at a Dex-based Staff/Trip build. Seems like the best combo of decent defense, CC, AoE and DPS.

(* Bets?)


Questions:

1) In the other Stick Builds I've looked at, TA II "Trip Focus" (+3 to DC's) is not popular. Is it just not needed on a Dex build? Sweeping Strike has "+Rogue Levels" as part of the DC math - would Trip Focus be advisable on this build, since he's 1st life and missing more than a couple Rogue Levels?

2) Human Damage Boost, Barbarian Melee Power Boost, Rogue Haste Attack Boost - do these share # of uses, and so are they (somewhat) redundant? Which is better here? (AP are not 100% finalized as this could free up some points.)

3) Blanking on a Level 18 Feat. :?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Shifty the Shortsighted, the Reborn
16/3/1 Rogue/Barbarian/Bard
True Neutral Human

Notes:

o He's currently Lvl 9, so he'll be taking Barbarian 3 for Greater Cleave immediately.
o Rogue 16 gives 2 Special Abilities before Lvl 18, plus another at 20.

Level Order
1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Rogue. . . . . 11. Rogue. . . . . 16. Rogue
2. Barbarian . . . 7. Rogue . . . . .12. Rogue . . . . .17. Rogue
3. Bard. . . . . . 8. Rogue . . . . .13. Rogue . . . . .18. Rogue
4. Barbarian . . . 9. Rogue . . . . .14. Rogue . . . . .19. Rogue
5. Rogue. . . . . 10. Barbarian . . .15. Rogue . . . . .20. Rogue


Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 13. . . .4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 18. . . .8: DEX
Constitution. . 14. . . 12: DEX
Intelligence. . 13. . . 16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . 20: DEX
Charisma. . . . .8. . .


Skills

Disable, Search, Spot, Balance, Hide, Move Sil, UMD - all @ 23
Open Lo 18
Jump 20
Perform 3
Haggle (7), Swim (4), Tumble (1)

Feats

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.1 Human. : Cleave
.3. . . . : Combat Expertise
.6. . . . : Great Cleave
.9. . . . : Improved Trip
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
14 Rogue. : Improved Evasion
15. . . . : Precision
17 Rogue. : Opportunist
18. . . . : ( ? TBD ? )
20 Rogue. : Defensive Roll

Spells
Bard
Focusing Chant

Enhancements (78 of 80 AP)

Thief-Acrobat (54 AP)
Staff Control, Stick Fighting
Acrobat Staff Training, Thief Acrobatics III, Sly Flourish III, Fast Movement
Acrobat Staff Training, Trip Focus III, Quick Strike III, Haste Boost III
Acrobat Staff Training, Shadow Dodge III, Sweeping Strikes III
Acrobat Staff Training, Improved Defensive Roll III, No Mercy III, Staff Lunge I
Acrobat Staff Training, Staff Specialization, Spinning Staff Wall, Vault

Frenzied Berserker (13 AP)
Die Hard, Frenzied Toughness
Cracking Attack III, Die Harder I
Blood Tribute III, Sprint Boost I
Supreme Cleave III

Ravager (4 AP)
Furious Rage
Barbarian Power Attack III

Warchanter (4 AP)
Skaldic: Constitution
Rough and Ready III

Human (3 AP)
Damage Boost
Improved Recovery

[C-Dog]

Fwiw, I just decided that, with Reaper what it is, I'd morph him into a Great Crossbow Mech, and call it good. And it's worked well, almost ready to TR (right after greensteel grind).

After the fact critiques and snipes welcome! :)

Shifty
16/2/2 Rogue/Barbarian/Bard
True Neutral Human

Level Order
1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Rogue. . . . . 11. Rogue. . . . . 16. Rogue
2. Barbarian . . . 7. Rogue . . . . .12. Rogue . . . . .17. Rogue
3. Bard. . . . . . 8. Barbarian. . . 13. Rogue. . . . . 18. Rogue
4. Rogue. . . . . .9. Rogue. . . . . 14. Bard. . . . . .19. Rogue
5. Rogue. . . . . 10. Rogue. . . . . 15. Rogue. . . . . 20. Rogue

Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 11. . . . . . . . 4: INT
Dexterity . . . 16. . . .+2. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 14. . . . . . . .12: DEX
Intelligence. . 17. . . . . . . .16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . . . . .20: INT
Charisma. . . . .8. . . . . . . .

Skills
. . . . .Rg Bn Bd Rg Rg Rg Rg Bn Rg Rg Rg Rg Rg Bd Rg Rg Rg Rg Rg Rg
. . . . . 1. 2 .3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Disable . 4. . . . 3. 1. 1. 1. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Search. . 4. . . . 3. 1. 1. 1. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spot. . . 4. . . . 2. 2. 1. 1. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Bluff . . 4. . .2. 1. 1. 1. 1. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Balance . 4. . .2. 1. 1. 1. 1. . .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Jump. . . . .5. . . . . . . . .5. . .1 .1 .1 . . . . . 3. 3. . .3 .1 .23
Hide. . . 4. . . . . . . 5. 1. . . . 2. 1. 2. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Move Si . 4. . .1. 1. 2. 1. 1. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Haggle. . 4. . .2. 1. 1. 1. 1. . . . 2. 2. 1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
UMD . . . 4. . . . 1. 3. 1. 1. . .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Swim. . . 3. 2 . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . .4 .2. 1. 2. 1. . . . 1. 20
Open Lo . 4. . . . . . . . .4 . . . . . 2. 2. . . . . . . . .2 . . 1. 15
Heal. . . 2. ½ . . . .½ . . . . . . . . . . . . .1. . . . ½. 1½ 1 .1 . 8
Perform . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1. . . . . . . . . . .4
Tumble. . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .48. 8 10 13 13 13 13 .9 13 13 13 13 13 11 13 14 14 14 14 14


Feats
.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.1 Human. : Rapid Shot
.3. . . . : Rapid Reload
.6. . . . : Precision
.9. . . . : Precise Shot
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
13 Rogue. : Improved Evasion
15. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
17 Rogue. : Slippery Mind
18. . . . : Dodge
20 Rogue. : Opportunist


Spells
Bard Cure Light Wounds, Focusing Chant

Enhancements (80 AP)
Mechanic (39 AP) Arbalester, Tanglefoot, Targeting Sights, Improved Detection Sharpshooter, Mechanics III
Sharpshooter, Wand and Scroll Mastery II, Skill Boost III
Sharpshooter, Wracking Shot I, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Fletching III, Leg Shot, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Rapid Fire III, Sniper, Mechanical Reloader
Swashbuckler (13 AP) Confidence On Your Toes I, Blow By Blow: Range III
Deflect Arrows, Double Shot Boost III
Warchanter (10 AP) Skaldic: Constitution Enchant Weapon, Rough and Ready III
Words of Encouragement II, Iced Edges I, Sprint Boost I
Harper Agent (8 AP) Agent of Good I Harper Enchantment, Awareness II
Know the Angles III
Frenzied Berserker (4 AP) Die Hard Die Harder III (Equiv of +45 HP for 4 AP)
Human (3 AP) Damage Boost Improved Recovery
Thief-Acrobat (3 AP) Staff Control Fast Movement