Advice on a quarterstaff using char mutliclass (with trap skills)

[wolfy42]

Hello everyone.

I'm coming back again and planning on playing a new character from scratch.

I could reincarnate a few other characters but they could not be dragonborn (which I'm thinking would be a good choice), and they have already done most of the quests I enjoy.

I'm looking to make a staff using character, with enough rogue levels to at least max spot/search and disable device. Hide and move silently would be nice to have as well though, and UMD is always nice to fit in if possible (Especially if I'm going to have a decent Cha anyway).

I want to stay away from using a ton of clickies (I do have alot of them), and potions/scrolls etc. I would kinda like to fit in Shadow Veil if possible for the 25% incorp, which would require 6 monks levels. I'm not set in stone on that, but 3 monk levels is VERY nice for fists of light and the bonus healing finisher, so another 3 seems like it makes sense for the 25% incorp and bonus feat (and adapt feat for free as well if I go for grandmaster eventually).

That brings me down to some serious decisions on a 3rd class (if I take a 3rd class).

I could go 18 monk/2 rogue, which seems like a really good combo, and with a 14 int (and tomes), I should be able to keep spot/search/disabled device up at least (not sure on UMD, but I'd have alot of backup healing anyway). So that is the simpliest option probably. Not sure how much I will be partying though, and more healing options/defense options (freedom of movement etc), is good if solo.

So, I'm thinking of mixing in some favored soul, and going with a dragonborn for +str and cha. Divine might with a high Cha seems like it would really rocket up your staff damage quickly. The other option is to go with Paladin instead (full BAB progression there, but divine might costs turn bonuses instead). Paladin would have much higher saves probably though with such a high Cha long term. Seems weird to have a bunch of pally levels but not wear heavy armor though.

Finally, last option I'm looking at is a dex based build, but I'm not sure if you get 1.5x your dex bonus when wielding the staff, like you do from strength (Also you can't boost dex as high as strength with things like divine might etc. I think the damage potential of divine might probably way outweighs the advantages of having a higher dex, and either Favored souls reflex saves and bonuses to saves, or paladins aura bonus to all saves would give more reflex saves then a dex based setup anyway (and while armor would be higher with more dex, does armor make THAT much difference anymore?)

So it's looking more and more like I'm trying to decide between 18 monk/2 rogue or a combo/split of rogue/monk and favored soul or pally (didn't look at cleric, although I guess that could be an option as well).

If I did go with favored soul/pally, I'm thinking I'd want more favored soul levels, and less pally levels. I'd like to be able to get tier 5 rogue acrobat enhancements, so the smaller number of pally levels would probably let me take more rogue, keep my other skills up more, end up with higher saves etc.

One thing I don't know, do you need 4 paladin levels to get any turn undead attempts (so you can use divine might?). I know you can get extra turns from enhancements so would that give you the first turn undead and then let you get bonuses from your Cha modifier for more? Not sure if it matters since your Cha bonus to saves is now restricted by pally levels, so I'd probably want at least 4 pally levels now anyway.

I think having improved uncanny dodge from rogue 8 would be very nice, along with shadow veil from monk 6, which leaves 6 levels left. 2 more levels in rogue would give me a special feat (probably defensive roll, then grab improved defensive roll from TA enhancement).

That leaves 4 levels left for Pally.

So in that case I would go with Rogue 10/monk 6/pally 4

Race Dragon Born (32 point build).

Str 18 (10)
Dex 10 (04)
Con 12 (04)
Int 12 (04)
wis 08 (00)
Cha 18 (10)

All level up points in cha (only 14 max bonus to saves though sigh).

I could go with 17 str and 17 cha, and use the 6 points to pump con up to 16 as well, or if need be int to 14 and con to 15.

Any suggestions? I'm thinking if I want a decent number of rogue levels (I need at least 5 if I want tier 5 rogue enhancements), favored soul is not really going to work well (no point if I won't get enough levels for decent spells).

18 monk/2 rogue would mean going tier 5 on monk instead of Rogue (you get more staff damage from rogue on the way up. Rogue gets a vault similar to the monk ability for tier 5 (course you gotta use enhancment points for it), but rogue gets +10 melee power and spinning staff wall (Which seems pretty sweet).

So I pretty much definatly want 5 rogue levels for my staff build (minimum), 8 gives me improved uncanny dodge (which is ANOTHER 5% dodge bonus, and 50% dodge bonus short term every 2 minutes). If I go up to 10 rogue that means I snag defensive roll which halves damage when my hp are under 50% (Probably should go with 15 or 16 con above and 17/17 str/cha), especially if i'm gonna be in wind stance alot.

So now I have narrowed things down a bit, I pretty much want 5 rogue levels for sure, having at least 3 monk levels makes sense for some free healing along the way. 6 monk gives me another monk feat, sounding staff (10 more melee, 3 more PRR, AND 2 more ki gen per hit).

So yeah, 6 just makes sense.

So min 5 rogue/6 monk setup for me, but I would prefer 10 rogue/6 monk.....which leaves only 4 levels. Pally would give a huge damage boost from divine might with 4 levels, and seems like the obvious choice.

Any suggestions the on a Rogue 10/Monk 6/Pally 4 build?

[wolfy42]

Hmm, I can see that choosing the enhancements is going to be VERY hard.

I'd really like to get the AMP enhancements from KoTC pally as well (40% for 4 ap), and the first 2 core enhancements (Wish I could get 6 pally levels for perm ghost touch...but I'd have to sacrifice defensive roll or shadow veil which I don't think is worth it).

Gonna see if I can use a character building now that I have a general idea of what I want.

[wolfy42]

Used the lite char generator, but couldn't get it to work with dragonborn.

Not going to have ANY AP for racial enhancements left over (not even 1 to get the +4 skill boost if I was human), so Dragonborn seems like a good/great idea.

Stats in such a case will probably be:

Str 17 (08)
Dex 08 (02)
Con 15 (08)
Int 14 (06)
Wis 08 (00) (probably going to grab force of personality)
Cha 17 (08)


Thinking of changing level up bonuses to STR instead of Cha, since cha bonus only applies to str, and my bonus to saves from cha will max out at 38 cha (which I think I can get without level ups put into it). Every 4 strength adds 3 damage, but only every 8 cha adds 3 damage.

I really need to know if you can get turn undeads before level 4 pally, since I only really need 3 pally levels if that is the case (would drop my max save bonus down to 11, but honestly a 32 cha is going to be hard enough to get/keep going without putting stat points into it.

One extra monk level would let me snag wholeness of body which would be a nice bonus heal in between fights (topping me off).

Oh well, still working on this:)

[wolfy42]

Tried it out myself and yep, you need 4 paladin levels to get any turn undeads to use divine might sigh.

On the positive side you can take Child of Auron at 6 to get +2 to hit and damage with Q-staves!!!

That is pretty cool:)

Anyway that means I need to take 4 pally levels initially (in my first 7 levels) since I want all that snarfy extra damage asap.

Leaves me only 3 non-pally levels, which really hurts as That means only 1 rogue or monk level (and 2 of the other).

2 monk gives me both power attack and THF fast, and i'm 1 away from fists of light at level 8 (although my rogue skills will be lagging big time by then)

Still I think it's best to go with 4 pally/2 monk/1 rogue to start off. Get my nice pally bonuses right from the start, then work on my skills and other enhancements as I go.

[EllisDee37]

Used the lite char generator, but couldn't get it to work with dragonborn.Do you have the current version, v2.2?


As for turn undead, if you're mostly running in epics you could twist it from one of the divine trees. (Divine Crusader, maybe?)

[wolfy42]

Do you have the current version, v2.2?


As for turn undead, if you're mostly running in epics you could twist it from one of the divine trees. (Divine Crusader, maybe?)

In all these years I never made it to epic content, plan on changing it this time though.

Don't think I had the newest version, but I made the char already. Need the 4 pally levels to use Divine might on my way up the levels. Seems like a pretty nice/big boost to be honest.

Going with str on level up and actually started with 18 str/17 cha.

Dex was now a dump stat for me, I'll get the reflex saves from cha etc. Wisdom was also a dump stat.

So went with:

18 Str (10)
06 dex (00)
15 con (08)
14 int (06)
08 wis (00)
17 cha (08)

All stats into str:

I'll have at least a +3 (may spring for a +4) superior tome. So just after the tomes alone the stats will be:

22 STR
10 dex
19 con
18 int
12 wis
21 Cha

After just level up stats Str will be 27, add in enhancement bonuses (think I get 3) for 30 base str.
I don't think I'll get to the full 14 bonus from cha to saves (would need a 38 cha).

Without anything special and just +6 to str/cha from items (Running through heroic only for now) that should give me a 36 base str and 27 cha (pump that up to 28 somehow (insight probably), and with ship buffs that would be a 38 base strength and 30 cha.

That would pump the strength up to 48 after divine might is factored in.

If I get an insight 3 for cha, that would actually nab me a 32 (+11 to strength and saving throws), but I would really like another 2 if at all possible, since that gives me another damage boost (+12 str since +11 won't probably do much), and almost caps my save bonus at +12 (2 away from cap). Not sure how to easily get that later on though.

[giftie]

So min 5 rogue/6 monk setup for me, but I would prefer 10 rogue/6 monk.....which leaves only 4 levels. Pally would give a huge damage boost from divine might with 4 levels, and seems like the obvious choice.

You should give some consideration to 13 Rogue/6 Monk/1 Fvs or Clr. The divine level gives access to very cheap DM based on SP instead of turns. You won't have the pally saves, but can take knockdown immunity from Rogue cores as well as another Rogue special feat (Improved Evasion or Opportunist), so it's a fair trade-off, IMHO. You save some AP as well, as full DM costs only 4 AP from Warpriest tree.

[wolfy42]

You should give some consideration to 13 Rogue/6 Monk/1 Fvs or Clr. The divine level gives access to very cheap DM based on SP instead of turns. You won't have the pally saves, but can take knockdown immunity from Rogue cores as well as another Rogue special feat (Improved Evasion or Opportunist), so it's a fair trade-off, IMHO. You save some AP as well, as full DM costs only 4 AP from Warpriest tree.



I'll have to consider that on a reincarnation, though it sounds like a good way to get rogue past lives. The 4 pally levels are not all bad, and the loss of the rogue levels isn't horrid.

Pally gives full BAB bonus and I like the 2 lay on hands I have as backup healing. The save bonus (eventually +12-14) is pretty huge, especially with evasion, and divine might is actually not that horrible with only 2 AP spent on it so far (30 second duration), although eventually i'll want to spend more.

Also get more heal amp this way, which is nice.

But yeah, saving AP and going with more rogue will be nice, just realized though, my setup leads to a rogue past life anyway lol.

Anyway, he seems to be working pretty well. Main problem is important powers are really spread out in levels. Divine might I got already, but shadow veil which I really want won't be till monk 6 (currently have 2 monk levels), but I also really want rogue 5 so I can get tier 5 abilities as well.

Can't have all of those till level 15!!! 5 rogue/6 monk/4 pally

At least I get fists of light next level, although I already got iron first now, which gives me a use for the insane amount of Ki I generate lol. If I eventually take the stealth enhancements from ninja spy and get yet another passive ki regen, I think I'll regen almost to full Ki while standing still!!

[wolfy42]

Bit of an update:

Been working on getting 125 favor so I could afford a +5 superior tome instead of a +4 (sadly they don't give you the bonus DDOpoints for VIP till the month actually starts grr).

Anyway to do that I made a char on another server I had not played and zoomed him up to 50 favor really quick.

Thing is, that char was more fun to play lol.....although my main char will get there eventually.

I went with 1 rogue level and 6 monk levels, and honestly in the future I think that is how I will go if I reincarnate.

That gave me some serious advantages over my main character, although my saving throws where a bit lower (but not actually THAT much lower).

I had shadow veil from the start, which is great both for fighting and for steal missions (like stealthy reposession), it's especially great if your just rushing through quests for favor though.

Monks 6 levels gave me a natural 10% movement speed bonus right away (at least I'll get 5% next level with my main).

I had fists of light right from the start (won't get that till I level up with my main, which I won't do till I have enough exp for 2 levels, so it'll be awhile, alot of quests).

Monk adapt of forms right away for more attack speed and double attack in wind form.

Another bonus monk feat (although since I was just quick running I just grabbed toughness), right away.

Over all it just moved faster, had natural healing, ki blast for ranged attacks (don't have that on my main yet), natural invisibility, and the ability to have 25% incorporeal for harder fights, faster attack speed and more double strike (still had the 15% boost from 1 rogue level), and you still have evasion from 2 monk levels.

The trap skills where a bit lower with only 1 rogue level total initially, but....early traps are cake anyway even on elite with twink eq etc. I was able to keep spot maxed obviously, move silently maxed (works well in combo with invisibility), and disable devices maxed. Search was not maxed but no biggie till later anyway.

So yeah, probably would have been better over all to start with 1 rogue/6 monk then go with 2 pally, then 1 rogue (get skills back up to par), and 2 more pally. Would have gotten me divine might by level 11, which is early enough (most quests up till then are super cake anyway).

Oh well, my setup will work, just gonna be a long road till level 6 monk, especially if I toss in some rogue levels, which I probably will. 3 monk next at level 8 for sure, then probably 3 rogue after that (skills and higher tier enhancements), then maybe go for the last 3 monk all in a row by level 12.

[DaLooza]

Spot is a nice skill to have, but Search could be a better choice into having maxed. Other than being able to see invisible monster, I don't think that a high spot is really needed in later (epic) levels (I haven't put into spot on my rogue the past 2 lives, with gear gets a decent level and can still 'spot' the traps in EE Haunted Halls but then it's basically second-hand nature at this point and I can still remember most trap box locations.) but I'm not entirely sure.

I see you also considered going Dex-based. Now, while you can pump Str to higher numbers, Dex can be easier to maintain (less buffs, less time having to spend on clicking them in the middle of combat to stay on top of your game). Even with a 32 point build you can easily get high 60s if not higher (would need tomes ofc, but you already stated that you were working on a +5 supreme).

While 5 rogue is really all you need for a good acrobat splash, 10 can make it shiney and 13 can make it sparkle(like a magically amulet, Charlie. Sparkle, sparkle!) (You need at least 12 rogue to qualify for the Epic Feat: Improved Sneak Attack, +3d6 sneak damage). Especially as a Str based, you might want to consider Improved Evasion over any other rogue feat. 13 you can pretty much choose any other rogue feat but Opportunist is my personally go-to (never tried Defensive Roll, will have to roll a Shar to play with it.)

Also remember every odd rogue level, your sneak attack feat goes up another die. The more rogue, the more you can hurt those baddies while your party members get their faces smashed! More rogue means more skills points when leveling up so you can put into skills like hide (Max this out as much as you can along with trapping skills; if you want the Scion of the Ethereal Plane Legendary Feat, adds 1 point of sneak damage for every 3 points of hide skill you have), move silently (sneaky, Charlie, you gotta be sneaky), UMD (Amulet. . !), and Bluff (besides UMD, this is, imo, the best skill to invest into if you can afford it as a melee).

Monk does give you speed boost, but so does the Acrobat tree, as a tier 1 enhancement gives 1% speed per rogue level (the more rogue the merrier! See a trend in my post here?).

And on Divine Might, going cleric (or favored soul if you have it) would be a huge AP saver. It costs one level versus four, and at least 2 ap and a few spell points vs at least 7 ap and turn undead ability. The only upside for paladin would be the small bonus to saves based on char. LoH is a quick life saver, good if the target has high heal amp, but its over all potential is based on paladin level and char bonus.

~ Will come back to finish this as I am currently out of time :( ~