Seduced to Death! Black Widow (4 Bard - 4 Sorc - 12 Fighter) Incredible Melee w/ CC

[savingsoul]

Folks,
Here are two amazing builds that have emerged from a few angles of experimentation. I haven't yet seen anything like them, so I would appreciate your feedback.

The Swax (Swashbucker w/ a Hand-axe using 3Bard/3-5Rogue/12-14Fighter split) builds are powerhouses that take advantage of the stacking bonuses to the critical profile from Swashbuckler and Kensei.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/477127-SWAX-3-Bard-5-Rogue-12-Fighter-Dwarf-w-Hand-Axe-amp-Buckler

At the same time, I've always been fond of the conjuration spells Web and Glitterdust (yes, Glitterdust), because they provide powerful crowd control for a conjurer (and they are lacking in an evoker).

Wait a minute, Swax is a melee build, why am I talking about casters?!?

It just so happens that Web and Glitterdust are only 2nd level spells! You can get Web and Glitterdust with merely 3 levels of Wizard (or you can get Glitterdust from 4 levels of Bard and Web from 4 levels of Sorc)!! These wonderful spells also have ***no penetration*** requirement . . .

Because the Swax builds are rich in feats, I realized this meant that I could build some solid melee characters using the Swax template that have formidable crowd control as well.

. . . That means you can kill those baddies that want you without letting them lay . . . um . . . a hand on you. ;)

There are other excellent features to the builds. So with no further ado, here are . . .
Black Widow (4Bard/4Sorc/12Fighter) and Jorogumo (3Bard/3Wiz/14Fighter).



Black Widow
4 Bard – 4 Sorcerer – 12 Fighter
*This is the original version. The only downside to it is that you may be tempted to play with your food.

Purple Dragon Knight w/ Hand-axe and Buckler+++

Black Widow Enhancement Set:
**Swashbuckler
-Confidence, Swashbuckling
-On Your Toes x1, Blow by Blow x3,
-Sword Dance x3,
-Elegant Footwork, Skirmisher, Smooth Flourishes [CHA to dmg]

**Kensei
-Focus: Axes, Spiritual Bond, Strike w/ No Thought, Power Surge
-Extra Action x3, Extra Tactics x3, Critical Master x3
-Opportunity Attack, Strike at the Heart
-Weapon Master (and all prereqs.), One w/ the Blade

**Vanguard
-To the Fore
-Shield Smash x3, Unbalancing Shove x1
-Stunning Shield x1, Brutality x3

**Stalwart Defender
-Toughness, Stalwart Defense
-Durable Defense x3 [for cumulative +25 PRR/MRR]
-Resilient Defense x3, Tenacious Defense [+20% hp]

**Eldritch Knight
-Eldritch Strike
-Improved Mage Armor x3 [+10% AC], Toughness x1
-Improved Shield x3 [+10 PRR]

+++Black Widow can also use PDK Cormyrean Knight Training w/ Shortswords for CHA to hit and dmg w/ +1/3 CHA Mod to Tactical Feats. (Divine Crusader and Unyielding Sentinel then also become viable EDs.)


*Starting Stats . . .
--Str 8
--Dex 14
--Con 14
--Int 14
--Wis 8
--Cha 16

*Heroic Feats:
-Shield Mastery
-Single Weapon Fighting
-Force of Personality
-Spell Focus: Conjuration
-Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
-Precision
-ISWF
-IC: Slashing
-GSWF
-Empower Healing (for Cocoon)
-Improved Shield Mastery
-Weapon Focus: Slashing
-Weapon Specialization: Slashing
-GWF: Slashing
-GWS: Slashing

*Epic Feats:
-Details Forthcoming.

*Leveling:
-Start with 1 Fighter, then 4 Bard (to open up skills for full ranks), then 4 Sorc, then the remaining Fighter levels for 4Bard/4Sorc/12Fighter.
-Put all level ups into CHA.

*Skills:
-When on first Fighter level, put skill points into Jump and Balance.
-When on Bard levels, put points into Concentration, Balance, Jump, Perform, and UMD.
-When on Sorc, put points into Concentration and Perform,
-When on remaining Fighter levels, put points into Concentration, Perform, and UMD.

*Spells:
-Bard
--Glitterdust
-Sorc
--Web

*Epic Destiny:
-Legendary Dreadnought [Tried and True]
--Legendary Tactics x3, Extra Action Boost x2
--Action Boost: Power x3
--Critical Damage x3, Action Boost: Haste x3
--Anvil of Thunder
--Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
--Master's Blitz Dodge, Headman's Chop
-Twists: Legendary Shield Mastery (Unyielding Sentinel), Conjuration Specialist (Magister), and Cocoon (Primal Avatar).

*Equipment:
-Kobold Admiral's Tiller or Buckler of the Demonic Soldier
-Light Armor
--Easy options while leveling: Snakeskin Vest, then Parasitic Breastplate
--Aspirations: Drow Outrunner Armor or Whisperchain.
-Have an accuracy item to boost your to hit on your weapon and the buckler for Stunning Shield.



Jorogumo
*This is a INT/Wizard variation of “Black Widow”. Due to high reflex saves, it sometimes feels a little more sturdy than the original version. However, there is still an overwhelming temptation to play with your food.

3 Bard – 3/5 Wizard – 14/12 Fighter

Deep Gnome w/ Hand-axe and Buckler
(Can be various other races.)

Jorogumo Enhancement Set:
**Swashbuckler
-Confidence, Swashbuckling
-On Your Toes x1, Blow by Blow x3,
-Sword Dance x3,
-Elegant Footwork, Skirmisher, Two Steps Ahead [INT to dmg.]

**Kensei
-Focus: Axes, Spiritual Bond, Strike w/ No Thought, Power Surge
-Extra Action x3, Extra Tactics x3, Critical Master x3
-Opportunity Attack, Strike at the Heart
-Weapon Master (and all prereqs.), One w/ the Blade, Deadly Strike, A Good Death

**Vanguard
-To the Fore
-Shield Smash x3, Unbalancing Shove x1
-Stunning Shield x1, Brutality x3

**Stalwart Defender
-Toughness, Stalwart Defense
-Durable Defense x3 [for cumulative +25 PRR/MRR]

**Harper Agent
-Agent of Good I
-Strategic Combat I [INT to hit]

**Racial [Deep Gnome ONLY]
-Illusory Escape, Underdark Experience [+3 All Saves]
-Hardy Nature x3, Color Spray x2###

*Starting Stats . . .
--Str 6
--Dex 14
--Con 14
--Int 20
--Wis 14
--Cha 6

*Heroic Feats:
-Shield Mastery
-Single Weapon Fighting
-Spell Focus: Conjuration
-Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
-Insightful Reflexes
-Heighten
-ISWF
-IC: Slashing
-GSWF
-Empower Healing (for Cocoon)
-Improved Shield Mastery
-Weapon Focus: Slashing
-Weapon Specialization: Slashing
-GWF: Slashing
-GWS: Slashing
-Precision

*Epic Feats:
-Details Forthcoming.

*Leveling:
-Start with 1 Wizard, then 3 Bard (to open up skills for full ranks), then 4 Wiz, then the Fighter levels for 3Bard/5Wizard/12Fighter.
-Put all level ups into INT.

*Skills:
-When on first Wizard level, put skill points into Concentration and Spellcraft.
-When on Bard levels, put points into Concentration, Spellcraft, Balance, Jump, Perform, and UMD.
-When on remaining Wizard Levels, put points into Concentration and Perform.
-When on remaining Fighter levels, put points into Concentration, Perform, and UMD.

*Spells:
-Wizard
--Glitterdust
--Web

*Epic Destiny:
-Legendary Dreadnought [Tried and True]
--Legendary Tactics x3, Extra Action Boost x2
--Action Boost: Power x3
--Critical Damage x3, Action Boost: Haste x3
--Anvil of Thunder
--Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
--Master's Blitz Dodge, Headman's Chop
-Twists: Legendary Shield Mastery (Unyielding Sentinel), Conjuration Specialist (Magister), and Cocoon (Primal Avatar).

*Equipment:
-Kobold Admiral's Tiller or Buckler of the Demonic Soldier
-Light Armor
--Easy options while leveling: Snakeskin Vest, then Parasitic Breastplate
--Aspirations: Drow Outrunner Armor or Whisperchain.
-Have an accuracy item to boost your to hit on your weapon and the buckler for Stunning Shield.

[Further details forthcoming.]

Wait a second, did I mention these builds are AXE MURDERERS?!?

[savingsoul]

Here is the Illusion variation of "Jorogumo". It is very similar to the other build, but now lying there naked on a clean sheet for you--or so it would seem.

I initially used a Deep Gnome to level and experiment quickly with an INT/Wiz version of "Black Widow", but the natural flavor on a DG is to be based on Illusion.

This is built primarily for Color Spray, using Web, Glitterdust, and/or Sleet Storm as backups for situational purposes.



Maya

3 Bard – 5 Wizard – 12 Fighter

Deep Gnome w/ Hand-axe and Buckler

Maya Enhancement Set:
**Swashbuckler
-Confidence, Swashbuckling
-On Your Toes x1, Blow by Blow x3,
-Sword Dance x3,
-Elegant Footwork, Skirmisher, Two Steps Ahead [INT to dmg]

**Kensei
-Focus: Axes, Spiritual Bond, Strike w/ No Thought, Power Surge
-Extra Action x3, Extra Tactics x3, Critical Master x3
-Opportunity Attack, Strike at the Heart
-Weapon Master (and all prereqs.), One w/ the Blade, Deadly Strike, A Good Death

**Vanguard
-To the Fore
-Shield Smash x3, Unbalancing Shove x1
-Stunning Shield x1

**Stalwart Defender
-Toughness, Stalwart Defense
-Durable Defense x3 [for cumulative +25 PRR/MRR]

**Racial - Deep Gnome
-Illusory Escape, Underdark Experience [+3 All Saves]
-Hardy Nature x3, Color Spray x2
-Racial Spell Focus: Illusion x3

**Harper Agent
-Agent of Good I
-Strategic Combat I [INT to hit]


*Starting Stats . . .
--Str 6
--Dex 14
--Con 14
--Int 20
--Wis 14
--Cha 6

*Heroic Feats:
-Shield Mastery
-Single Weapon Fighting
-Spell Focus: Illusion
-Greater Spell Focus: Illusion
-Insightful Reflexes
-Heighten
-ISWF
-IC: Slashing
-GSWF
-Empower Healing (for Cocoon)
-Improved Shield Mastery
-Weapon Focus: Slashing
-Weapon Specialization: Slashing
-GWF: Slashing
-GWS: Slashing
-Precision

*Epic Feats:
-Details Forthcoming.

*Leveling:
-Start with 1 Wizard, then 3 Bard (to open up skills for full ranks), then 4 Wiz, then the Fighter levels for 3Bard/5Wizard/12Fighter.
-Put all level ups into INT.

*Skills:
-When on first Wizard level, put skill points into Concentration and Spellcraft.
-When on Bard levels, put points into Concentration, Spellcraft, Balance, Jump, Perform, and UMD.
-When on remaining Wizard Levels, put points into Concentration and Perform.
-When on remaining Fighter levels, put points into Concentration, Perform, and UMD.

*Spells:
-Wizard
--Glitterdust/Sleet Storm
--Web

*Epic Destiny:
-Legendary Dreadnought [Tried and True]
--Legendary Tactics x3, Extra Action Boost x2
--Action Boost: Power x3
--Critical Damage x3, Action Boost: Haste x3
--Anvil of Thunder
--Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
--Master's Blitz Dodge, Headman's Chop
-Twists: Legendary Shield Mastery (Unyielding Sentinel), Illusion Specialist (Magister), and Cocoon (Primal Avatar).

*Equipment:
-Buckler of the Demonic Soldier
-Light Armor
--Easy options while leveling: Snakeskin Vest, Parasitic Breastplate (or Rakshasa Hide)
--Aspirations: Drow Outrunner Armor (or Whisperchain)
-Have an accuracy item to boost your to hit on your weapon and the buckler for Stunning Shield.

[Further details forthcoming.]

[Fedora1]

Are these builds using INT/CHA for damage? I don't see it in the featured enhancements.

[savingsoul]

Are these builds using INT/CHA for damage? I don't see it in the featured enhancements.

Yes, Jorogumo uses INT for hit/dmg, Black Window uses CHA for hit/dmg. I suppose that is worth featuring. Thanks. :)

[Saekee]

I thought the rogue splash was for evasion

are the DCs high enough to make those spells work? I am clueless when it comes to casters

[TitusOvid]

I thought the rogue splash was for evasion

are the DCs high enough to make those spells work? I am clueless when it comes to casters

This puzzles me as well. I can't imagine that 2 spell foci do the trick and you don't use heighten. Please explain further.

[savingsoul]

This puzzles me as well. I can't imagine that 2 spell foci do the trick and you don't use heighten. Please explain further.

Heighten only increases to the highest caster level possible (which is already two on these builds), so it won't help.

I've been able to web and blind in the lower reaper levels while playing at base level without much problem. You do need appropriate conjurer dc boosting gear though.

[savingsoul]

I thought the rogue splash was for evasion

are the DCs high enough to make those spells work? I am clueless when it comes to casters

That's a good point, evasion is pretty awesome on the original DEX Swax. You can also get trap skills w/ evasion on a Swax INT build. So perhaps I oversold it a little contra an original DEX and INT Swax w/ rogue. :)

The upshot is that even though the INT/CHA builds are a little more squishy than the original DEX Swax (which doesn't have trap skills), you can decrease incoming damage and (ironically) boost outgoing SA damage to everyone significantly on this build w/ web and glitterdust.

See my reply to Titus re: spells.

EDIT: I've updated the OP, removing the comments about SA/rogue. Reads much better that way. Thanks for your feedback.

[unbongwah]

Heighten only works for the highest caster level possible (which is already two on these builds), so it won't help.
I think that's the point: with only 2 spell caster levels, how are you going to hit viable DCs in later content when you can't get the +7 DCs from Heighten that a wiz 17+ build does? More if you factor in AM bonuses to DCs which you presumably can't afford.

Plus I don't see the point of building for Glitterdust when you could do, say, bard 3 / wiz 5 / ftr 12 and use Sleet Storm instead, which also blinds but doesn't have a save plus the occasional free knockdown. Also since you're INT-based gnome I would try to squeeze in the Color Spray SLA, though I'm not sure what you should give up for it.

[unbongwah]

Kensai + action surge charisma is +7.5 all DCs.
Power Surge is +8; action surge is +3. Doesn't that make it +5.5?

Charisma to damage with handaxe is from swashbuckling Smooth Flourishes, not KTA with a handaxe btw. There is no charisma to hit with a handaxe.
It's unclear from my post, but I was commenting on OP's first build, which is INT-based DG using handaxes.

[savingsoul]

I think that's the point: with only 2 spell caster levels, how are you going to hit viable DCs in later content when you can't get the +7 DCs from Heighten that a wiz 17+ build does? More if you factor in AM bonuses to DCs which you presumably can't afford.

Plus I don't see the point of building for Glitterdust when you could do, say, bard 3 / wiz 5 / ftr 12 and use Sleet Storm instead, which also blinds but doesn't have a save plus the occasional free knockdown. Also since you're INT-based gnome I would try to squeeze in the Color Spray SLA, though I'm not sure what you should give up for it.

The Kensei ability surge helps a bit when your DCs are challenged, getting you already 4 of the 7 you would get from all those levels of Wiz + Heighten. Also, as I stated, Web and Glitterdust have no spell penetration requirement.

The builds are focused primarily on Web, and built accordingly, hence the names/themes. Glitterdust just makes the party that more exciting. Moreover, people are still less fond of Sleet Storm than they are of Web or Glitterdust for obvious reasons (like they can't see sh**), and neither the 3 Wiz nor the 5 Wiz split can cast FOM to deal consistently w/ Sleet Storm, let alone guarantee that everyone else has FOM. However, your point is still well taken.

Despite what you suggest, it doesn't really say anything against making the Jorogumo build with Glitterdust. It's merely a nice riff on it. Taking your Sleet Storm suggestion into consideration, people could get both Glitterdust and Sleet Storm and use them situationally alongside Web. That way the build would still perform swimmingly when people say NO after you politely ask them if you can cast Sleet Storm in the first place (rather than rudely presume that they will tolerate it). Of course, that whole issue might leave you wondering why you bothered to build with 5 whole levels of Wiz for merely Sleet Storm in the first place. ;)

[Fedora1]

Charisma to damage with handaxe is from swashbuckling Smooth Flourishes, not KTA with a handaxe btw. There is no charisma to hit with a handaxe.

On the CHA build, I believe he is using the racial PDK Cormyrean Knight Training for CHA.

[savingsoul]

On the CHA build, I believe he is using the racial PDK Cormyrean Knight Training for CHA.

I caused confusion by mentioning CHA to hit without clarifying (and cutting and pasting from the Jorogumo to Black Widow specs without finishing to edit the differences).

The original idea from Swax is ofc to use Handaxes, so in that case on the original Black Widow build you need to use the Swashbuckler enhancement for CHA to dmg and be sure to have an accuracy item equipped to boost to hit, etc.

Black Widow can also use PDK Cormyrean Knight Training w/ Shortswords for CHA to hit and dmg w/ +1/3 CHA Mod to Tactical Feats.

Jorogumo uses INT for to hit and dmg.

[savingsoul]

Okay, so I've experimented with the Black Widow build a bit more, and the best enhancement set I've found so far is the following:

Black Widow Enhancement Set I:
**Swashbuckler
-Confidence, Swashbuckling
-On Your Toes x1, Blow by Blow x3,
-Sword Dance x3,
-Elegant Footwork, Skirmisher, Smooth Flourishes [CHA to dmg.]

**Kensei
-Focus: Axes, Spiritual Bond, Strike w/ No Thought, Power Surge
-Extra Action x3, Extra Tactics x3, Critical Master x3
-Opportunity Attack, Strike at the Heart
-Weapon Master (and all prereqs.), One w/ the Blade

**Vanguard
-To the Fore
-Shield Smash x3, Unbalancing Shove x1
-Stunning Shield x1, Brutality x3

**Stalwart Defender
-Toughness, Stalwart Defense
-Durable Defense x3 [for cumulative +25 PRR/MRR]
-Resilient Defense x3, Tenacious Defense [+20% hp]

**Eldritch Knight
-Eldritch Strike
-Improved Mage Armor x3 [+10% AC], Toughness x1
-Improved Shield x3 [+10 PRR]

+++Black Widow can also use PDK Cormyrean Knight Training w/ Shortswords for CHA to hit and dmg w/ +1/3 CHA Mod to Tactical Feats. (Divine Crusader and Unyielding Sentinel then also become viable EDs.)

These updates are reflected in the OP.

[savingsoul]

I've also experimented a bit more on the Jorogumo build.


Jorogumo Enhancement Set I:
**Swashbuckler
-Confidence, Swashbuckling
-On Your Toes x1, Blow by Blow x3,
-Sword Dance x3,
-Elegant Footwork, Skirmisher, Two Steps Ahead [INT to dmg.]

**Kensei
-Focus: Axes, Spiritual Bond, Strike w/ No Thought, Power Surge
-Extra Action x3, Extra Tactics x3, Critical Master x3
-Opportunity Attack, Strike at the Heart
-Weapon Master (and all prereqs.), One w/ the Blade

**Vanguard
-To the Fore
-Shield Smash x3, Unbalancing Shove x1
-Stunning Shield x1, Brutality x3

**Stalwart Defender
-Toughness, Stalwart Defense
-Durable Defense x3 [for cumulative +25 PRR/MRR]

**Eldritch Knight
-Eldritch Strike
-Improved Mage Armor x3 [+10% AC], Toughness x1
-Improved Shield x3 [+10 PRR]+++
+++Suggestion: If you have trouble w/ attack, you can drop Improved Shield for Strategic Combat I from Harper.
+++**Harper Agent
+++-Agent of Good I
+++-Strategic Combat I [INT to hit]

**Racial [Deep Gnome ONLY]
-Illusory Escape, Underdark Experience [+3 All Saves]
-Color Spray x1###

###Optional: Drop Eldritch's Improved Shield x3 and Harper's Strategic Combat I for Color Spray x3. Indeed, you can change the whole focus of the build to Illusion and simply use Color Spray x3, but Color Spray x1 is nice to have on the Conjurer/Web build for situational purposes.

I also decided to try 5 levels of Wizard, but not for Sleet Storm [h/t Unbongwah]. I did it for the additional spell points, Blur, Haste, and Displacement (w/ no spell slots left for Sleet Storm). The leveling progression w/ 14 Fighter is nicer though and you can get those effects/spells from elsewhere. Hence, I've kept the suggested split in the OP. However, the additional sp's for 5 Wiz are nice--especially for Cocoon.

These updates are reflected in the OP.

[savingsoul]

I've added a clean spec of the Illusion-focused variation on Jorogumo/Swax. It's in the first comment following the OP.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/486491-Seduced-to-Death!-Black-Widow-(4-Bard-4-Sorc-12-Fighter)-Incredible-Melee-w-CC?p=5972561&viewfull=1#post5972561

[savingsoul]

Jorogumo Enhancement Set (Updated):
**Swashbuckler
-Confidence, Swashbuckling
-On Your Toes x1, Blow by Blow x3,
-Sword Dance x3,
-Elegant Footwork, Skirmisher, Two Steps Ahead [INT to dmg.]

**Kensei
-Focus: Axes, Spiritual Bond, Strike w/ No Thought, Power Surge
-Extra Action x3, Extra Tactics x3, Critical Master x3
-Opportunity Attack, Strike at the Heart
-Weapon Master (and all prereqs.), One w/ the Blade, Deadly Strike, A Good Death

**Vanguard
-To the Fore
-Shield Smash x3, Unbalancing Shove x1
-Stunning Shield x1, Brutality x3

**Stalwart Defender
-Toughness, Stalwart Defense
-Durable Defense x3 [for cumulative +25 PRR/MRR]

**Harper Agent
-Agent of Good I
-Strategic Combat I [INT to hit]

**Racial [Deep Gnome ONLY]
-Illusory Escape, Underdark Experience [+3 All Saves]
-Hardy Nature x3, Color Spray x2###

[savingsoul]

Here is the suggested epic destiny for all three builds . . .

***Epic Destiny***
**Legendary Dreadnought [Tried and True]
-Legendary Tactics x3, Extra Action Boost x2
-Action Boost: Power x3
-Critical Damage x3, Action Boost: Haste x3
-Anvil of Thunder
-Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
-Master's Blitz Dodge, Headman's Chop
--Twists: Legendary Shield Mastery (Unyielding Sentinel), Conjuration Specialist [for Jorogumo and Black Widow]/Illusion Specialist [for Maya](Magister), and Cocoon (Primal Avatar).

[This update has been made in the OP as well. See OP for further details.]

[savingsoul]

MAYA HAVE YOUR ATTENTION?

Maya Enhancement Set:
**Swashbuckler
-Confidence, Swashbuckling
-On Your Toes x1, Blow by Blow x3,
-Sword Dance x3,
-Elegant Footwork, Skirmisher, Two Steps Ahead [INT to dmg]

**Kensei
-Focus: Axes, Spiritual Bond, Strike w/ No Thought, Power Surge
-Extra Action x3, Extra Tactics x3, Critical Master x3
-Opportunity Attack, Strike at the Heart
-Weapon Master (and all prereqs.), One w/ the Blade, Deadly Strike, A Good Death

**Vanguard
-To the Fore
-Shield Smash x3, Unbalancing Shove x1
-Stunning Shield x1

**Stalwart Defender
-Toughness, Stalwart Defense
-Durable Defense x3 [for cumulative +25 PRR/MRR]

**Racial - Deep Gnome
-Illusory Escape, Underdark Experience [+3 All Saves]
-Hardy Nature x3, Color Spray x2
-Racial Spell Focus: Illusion x3 [+3 to Illusion DC's]

**Harper Agent
-Agent of Good I
-Strategic Combat I [INT to hit]

Full Spec of the Maya build can be found at . . .
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/486491-Seduced-to-Death!-Black-Widow-(4-Bard-4-Sorc-12-Fighter)-Incredible-Melee-w-CC?p=5972561&viewfull=1#post5972561