Arcane Archer/DWS: What is the best Epic element type?

[n1x0r-]

Which elemental type do you think is the best level 20+ and why?

Also... not related to topic. But what feats would you pick on an arcane archer/dws build as:
- Your level 26 destiny feat?
- Your level 30 legendary feat?
- What Epic destiny would you use?

If it depends on build or content, feel free to elaborate.

Thanks!

[Hobgoblin]

Which elemental type do you think is the best level 20+ and why?

Also... not related to topic. But what feats would you pick on an arcane archer/dws build as:
- Your level 26 destiny feat?
- Your level 30 legendary feat?
- What Epic destiny would you use?

If it depends on build or content, feel free to elaborate.

Thanks!
in theroy they are the same. but you have to consider the mobs you are facing

in epics a lot of mobs are immune to fire. others to ice. some to elec only a few are immune to acid. so for general purposes acid is best, but its not a sure feat of ya pick this

i use fury/dread/crusade/fate depending on what im doing

i forget 26 feat, but i like either the scion of ethreal plane or scion of arborea

[Mindos]

Which elemental type do you think is the best level 20+ and why?

Also... not related to topic. But what feats would you pick on an arcane archer/dws build as:
- Your level 26 destiny feat?
- Your level 30 legendary feat?
- What Epic destiny would you use?

If it depends on build or content, feel free to elaborate.

Thanks!

Acid. Cause its uber.
I eventually took arcane warrior, Your weapon and unarmed attacks grant you a stack of Arcane Warrior: Magical (+1 Universal Spell Power). Your offensive spells grant you a stack of Arcane Warrior: Physical (+1 Melee (http://ddowiki.com/page/Melee_power) and Ranged (http://ddowiki.com/page/Ranged_power) power). Each of these stacks to 20 times and each stack lasts for 6 seconds. You may gain a stack of each no more than once per second.

It's level 29 though. Gives that spellpower.

Then I took at 30: http://ddowiki.com/page/Scion_of_the_Plane_of_Earth adds acid damage, scales with spellpower. it basically doubles your acid damage. Bam, everythings dead.

For epic destiny, I used mostly Shradidi. The low level stance, cold, actually does something different then its description. It slows mobs down, and it procs a lot!

[n1x0r-]

Acid. Cause its uber.
I eventually took arcane warrior, Your weapon and unarmed attacks grant you a stack of Arcane Warrior: Magical (+1 Universal Spell Power). Your offensive spells grant you a stack of Arcane Warrior: Physical (+1 Melee (http://ddowiki.com/page/Melee_power) and Ranged (http://ddowiki.com/page/Ranged_power) power). Each of these stacks to 20 times and each stack lasts for 6 seconds. You may gain a stack of each no more than once per second.

What offensive spells do you use to trigger it?

[Mindos]

What offensive spells do you use to trigger it?

I don't! :) I rely on the first part, which generates spell power from attacks!

[CThruTheEgo]

Take a look at White Feather Sniper in my sig for my take on a DWS/AA. There's some discussion in the thread about the different element types and their relative value. Ultimately, it depends on what content you intend to play primarily.

[FuzzyDuck81]

I usually use acid as my primary damage imbue with force as a secondary for acid-immune enemies

For the level 26 feat usually one of the spellpower ones, level 30 probably wellspring of power for the extra imbue damage, scion feat i go with limbo, less predictable but usually something good.

[EllisDee37]

For the legendary feat, Scion of Arborea is pretty nice:

+20 ranged power
+40 force spell power
+2 enhancement bonus to your bow

[n1x0r-]

Went over your answers, and I also looked through the white feather (and Strimtoms threads) as suggested.

For the elemental type it seems either Electric or Acid is preffered.
Would any of you have some examples of specific end-game quests/raids where either of them runs into immunities?
And... Are there any noticeable enemies in the game that are immune (or have resistance) to both [Force/Electric] or [Force/Acid]?

[FuzzyDuck81]

And... Are there any noticeable enemies in the game that are immune (or have resistance) to both [Force/Electric] or [Force/Acid]?

Golems usually have some pretty significant resistances to almost all kinds of magical damage if not outright immunity (acid heals clay, lightning outright buffs flesh golems as well as heals), and helmed horrors will always be healed by force plus whatever element that matches their sword, which will change around.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

Just a few

Devils Reduced Acid, Full Force
Demons Reduced Electric, Full Force
Arcane oozes and Clay Golems are Healed by Acid, Reduced Force
Flesh Golems are Healed by Electric and Reduced Force and Acid

[CThruTheEgo]

Would any of you have some examples of specific end-game quests/raids where either of them runs into immunities?
And... Are there any noticeable enemies in the game that are immune (or have resistance) to both [Force/Electric] or [Force/Acid]?

Sor'jek in Tempest's Spine is immune to electric, so force or acid is better against him. Kor-Kaza from Riding the Storm Out is also immune to electric. Many devils have resistance to acid, so electric or force is better against them. And if you're running high difficulty content, then paralyzing arrows is better than all of them. So it really depends on what content you intend to run.

[EllisDee37]

Immune to Electricty
Blue Abishai
Blue Dragon
Death Knight
Dretch
Eladrin
Flesh Golem (healed by electricity)
Gelatinous Cube
Glabrezu
Goristro
Hezrou
Jarilith
Lich
Marilith
Ochre Jelly
Tiefling
Will-o'-Wisp

Immune to Acid
Acid Witt (everything in quest, I think)
Arcane Ooze (healed by acid)
Black Abishai
Black Dragon
Clay Golem (healed by acid)
Crimson Foot spiders
Djinn
Green Abishai
Green Dragon
Thaarak Hound (?)
Will-o'-Wisp


Nothing on either list is also immune to force. Many demons and devils have acid resistance but no electric resistance, except (of course) the many demons that are immune to electricity.

[n1x0r-]

Much appreciated! :)
I think acid-resistance has a little more presence in the content I would run the most, but it is kinda hard to get a quick overview. On the other hand, I checked some of the other raid bosses after Sor'Jek and Kor Kaza, and a total of 5 among the content I might run are lightning immune. Oh well.

[unbongwah]

As long as we're discussing Legendary feats too, it depends partly on which ED you plan to use. E.g., for FotW builds, I think I'd rather have Arborea just for the +20 Ranged Power to amp your Adrenalized attacks.

OTOH, if you're focused more on sustained DPS in e.g. Crusader, consider Ethereal Plane for the extra sneak atks, esp. if you went DEX-based and maxed out Hide. After all, you'll have up to 6d6 SA from DWS already plus whatever you get from SA gear; taking the rogue PL feat provides a temp boost as well. With SAs you don't worry about elemental resistances; instead it's about proccing vulnerability, having enough Fort bypass, and staying in PBS range. Sniper Shot will be providing SA vulnerability 2/3 of the time; Deception gear will (hopefully) cover the other 1/3.

[n1x0r-]

Not really sure how I would go about calculating the DPS of the different legendary feats, so it feels hard to tell when (or why) Arborea would be better than the 2d20 elemental damage... or the breakpoint where Ethereal plane would be better than a scion for DPS. Then comes the other factors, like my paralyzing DC having to be high enough without the +2/+4 DC the other feats could offer.

Still, when I made this thread i was exclusively looking at the scions and spellpower (for 26). It is nice to see alternatives being presented, such as wellspring (26) or the various considerations for destinies, and the legendary feat.

[CThruTheEgo]

Not really sure how I would go about calculating the DPS of the different legendary feats, so it feels hard to tell when (or why) Arborea would be better than the 2d20 elemental damage...

It depends on the kind of build you have/want. Fury of the wild archer builds emphasize big crits from adrenaline and huge burst dps from activating slaying arrows with the unbridled fury epic moment. These builds aren't as concerned with the extra dps you'd get from an elemental legendary feat, so the extra ranged power from arborea serves their primary goal better. Arborea also offers force spell power, which has good synergy with the force arrow imbue.


or the breakpoint where Ethereal plane would be better than a scion for DPS.

Because sneak attack damage is multiplied by 1.5x ranged/melee power, ethereal plane actually puts out more dps than any of the other legendary feats if you go all in on hide (i.e. dex based, wearing max hide gear, etc.). If you haven't fully invested in hide, then your probably better off with another feat.


Then comes the other factors, like my paralyzing DC having to be high enough without the +2/+4 DC the other feats could offer.

The interesting thing about paralyzing arrows is that you aren't in the same situation as a DC caster. A DC caster is only going to get one shot at landing their spell which is why they aim for a no fail DC. But the rate of fire of a level 30 archer (doubleshot included) means mobs will get hit again and again with paralyzing arrows, so you don't need to have a no fail DC or even anywhere close to it. If you're DC is at a 50% success rate, that means, on average, 1 in every 2 arrows is going to paralyze the enemy. If you're at a 25% success rate, then 1 in 4 arrows will paralyze. So as long as your DC still falls within the range of effectiveness, you can afford to be at the lower end of that spectrum and still provide some very effective CC with paralyzing arrows. In other words, you don't really need to worry too much about using your legendary feat to invest in your paralyzing arrows DC.

In addition, the elemental legendary feats have great synergy with the elemental arrow imbues because you're already building for a single spell power, so the legendary feat is just extra damage on top of what you'd already be doing.

So again, which feat is ideal really depends on the kind of build you have/want as well as the content you intend to play. There is no single best answer for all, but I hope this clarifies why some options are better for some builds than others.

[barecm]

I know this is not an element, but it is an imbue nonetheless. I would encourage to go paralyze / fear if you intend to run reaper and/or legendary elite quests. Simply put, you will not do enough damage quickly enough to knock things down before they get to you. So, that being said, Scion of the Feywild provides quite a nice array of abilities that work well in reaper / LE:

+10 Sonic Spell Power, +30 Universal Spell Power
+4 to the DCs of Enchantment spells, +2 to DCs of other spells
Add 2d20 Sonic damage to weapon and unarmed attacks (Scales with Spell Power)
+20 Healing Amp

Enchantment DC boost of +4 is fantastic for the build and healing amp is of extreme value in reaper. Just remember to add 1 point into perform when at char creation to get some sonic spell power. It is not the main point of taking Feywild, but it is some more damage. If you want to be aggressive with the sonic damage, you can level up perform and maybe add a +perform skill item into your build as well. More than likely you can get it over 400-500 with the right gear and not stress your build too much.

[n1x0r-]

As long as we're discussing Legendary feats too, it depends partly on which ED you plan to use. E.g., for FotW builds, I think I'd rather have Arborea just for the +20 Ranged Power to amp your Adrenalized attacks.

OTOH, if you're focused more on sustained DPS in e.g. Crusader, consider Ethereal Plane for the extra sneak atks, esp. if you went DEX-based and maxed out Hide. After all, you'll have up to 6d6 SA from DWS already plus whatever you get from SA gear; taking the rogue PL feat provides a temp boost as well. With SAs you don't worry about elemental resistances; instead it's about proccing vulnerability, having enough Fort bypass, and staying in PBS range. Sniper Shot will be providing SA vulnerability 2/3 of the time; Deception gear will (hopefully) cover the other 1/3.

How would Ethereal Plane perform without rogue PL in comparison to the alternatives?

[unbongwah]

How would Ethereal Plane perform without rogue PL in comparison to the alternatives?
...fine, I presume? We're starting to get a little further into the weeds than I had intended here. Which I suppose is inevitable in any discussion of endgame DPS builds, so I should've read the label on the can of worms before opening. :p

My main point is that several of the Legendary feats have something to offer an AA build. The trick is figuring out which one best complements your toon, which depends on factors like which ED you're using and which aspects of your build you want to focus on.

[CThruTheEgo]

How would Ethereal Plane perform without rogue PL in comparison to the alternatives?

You get 3 uses of the active rogue past life and each lasts for 1 minute. If I'm adding correctly, at level 30 it adds a total of +24 sneak attack damage for 3 minutes total per rest. That's pretty good but it shouldn't make or break the build nor change the feat's relative value when compared with the others. If you've properly built for the ethereal plane feat, then you'll do fine without it and should still out-dps the others. If you haven't built for it, or want to emphasize some other build potential such as burst dps or CC, then you're better off with another feat.