DDO Ruined Me

[Knobull]

Since my main character is nearing the end of a tempest ranger life and was farming tokens to TR and there is no fix in sight for months for the crit multiplier bug, I thought I'd try some other MMOs this weekend...

First up was LOTRO. OMG. Just. Can't. Do. It.

Next up was Guild Wars 2. Bit better than LOTRO, but still the combat system of every other MMO I have tried over the years just does not compare in the least.

We cannot let DDO die. Or if it does, the combat system needs to be replicated in another game.

I feel less inclined to complain about everything that is wrong with DDO now. :)

[Hutoth]

Aye

[PermaBanned]

That's actually why I complain: this game has much squandered potential. The ship could be righted, wether it will or not is simply out of our hands. We can voice our opinions and/or we can "vote with our wallets;" I do both. Unfortunately, the latter leaves the Devs with less money to act on the former, but such is how it is.

[sephiroth1084]

Not just the combat, though that's a big part of it.

Character generation that is more than: pick class, pick specialty, go.

Character development that is more than: gain HP, gain MP, gain single new ability.

Quests that are (sometimes) more than: hold auto-attack and kill everything in sight. DDO has been hurting a bit here recently, I think. We need more quests that can be solved with stealth. Fewer doors that are magically locked until all monsters are dead. Fewer quests that require beating down a bag of HP to succeed. More traps that alter your approach to the quest. More situations that encourage the use of the mechanics that make DDO such a stand-out game.

I wish we could get a DDO 2, but I know that won't ever happen, since, at best, they would keep a similar engine but change to 5th Edition, but even that is doubtful. I just don't know how SSG can possibly fix some of the glaring problems with the game, like runaway power inflation.

[walkin_dude]

I wish we could get a DDO 2, but I know that won't ever happen, since, at best, they would keep a similar engine but change to 5th Edition, but even that is doubtful. I just don't know how SSG can possibly fix some of the glaring problems with the game, like runaway power inflation.

If there every is a DDO 2, I hope it has a stingy GM.

[KoobTheProud]

DDO 2 would be the fix for power creep. Fresh slate, DDO still running for people who couldn't give up Mini-Thor, etc.

DDO's combat system would be great were it not for the lag in the system at this point and I'm not talking about latency. Playing a melee recently has been less than fun, and this is not a Reaper thing because I do not play Reaper. It's the lag in monster and character interactions that is the problem. Range to target is an issue a lot of the time and hit box is an issue a lot of the time and missed swings due to both of the above is an issue a lot of the time.

It's not as noticeable with a caster or ranged character but you still get actions disappearing into the aether with them also, it just doesn't happen in a cloud of mobs all swinging at you and hitting while your action vanishes.

The basic combat flow is very hinky for a melee right now. I'm not sure if this was the case before the servers were virtualized but it is definitely the case now.

[Mr_Helmet]

DDO2 could also be 5th edition.

Never happen.

[Roberto]

Since my main character is nearing the end of a tempest ranger life and was farming tokens to TR and there is no fix in sight for months for the crit multiplier bug, I thought I'd try some other MMOs this weekend...

First up was LOTRO. OMG. Just. Can't. Do. It.
:)

Why not? What are the shortcomings of LOTRO as compared to DDO?

[dunklezhan]

First up was LOTRO. OMG. Just. Can't. Do. It.



I know, but I'd certainly log on and kill 10 rats using cooldown based combat if I thought it would give me a shot at getting their UI customisation options embedded into DDO.

Incidentally, your various reasons mirror my own and its why I'm still here for sure. There simply is not anything even close to like it.

[scipiojedi]

Since my main character is nearing the end of a tempest ranger life and was farming tokens to TR and there is no fix in sight for months for the crit multiplier bug, I thought I'd try some other MMOs this weekend...

First up was LOTRO. OMG. Just. Can't. Do. It.

Next up was Guild Wars 2. Bit better than LOTRO, but still the combat system of every other MMO I have tried over the years just does not compare in the least.

We cannot let DDO die. Or if it does, the combat system needs to be replicated in another game.

I feel less inclined to complain about everything that is wrong with DDO now. :)

Yep. Tried Rift. Tried Warhammer Age of Reckoning. Even tried SWTOR - and I'm a huge star wars nerd but couldn't get into it. I've tried Lotro twice and can't get past level 2.
I keep thinking that LoTRO would be just like DDO but with Lotr stuff...but its not. I can't do it. I tried something else too that I forget the name of but it was one of those korean ones where you pick a class and your race is tied to it and you get no options. Sure the cut scenes were cool but I don't wanna just fight big monsters, I want to PICK everything on my character.

[Tetsugin7]

I had decided to try LOTRO because I do like the fact SSG are a more independent studio. Plus add on packs were on sale around Christmas.
There are things i really do like in LOTRO, graphics seem better to me. Has Capes... Must have... Capes in DDO!!!
But overall, got a character to level 25 and was done (goes up over 100). Gameplay is very standard MMO as stated by others above.
Don't like Tabbed Targeting and the just stand toe to toe with a monster til dead. That is where DDO's action combat wins in spades.

Now, Guild Wars 2 is a different type of game even for an MMO. The art style, music and action-ish combat (you can dodge at least! No Tumble though!).
More akin to DDO than any other MMO I would say. Since you can move and attack.
For someone that does not like MMO's really (DDO is D&D, the main reason I play!). Guild Wars 2 held my interest and maxed out several toons.

I do know what you are saying, Preach it!!!
When you start playing another MMO, the character customization is just not so much there.
And mashing 1, 2, and feeling like you are playing Paper Scissors Rock is kind of crappy.
The sheer number of options in DDO just crushes the others.

My 2 cents.

Oh, and Elder Scrolls Online has come a long way.
Will attempt the Morrowind add on in June. (love the single player games)
But... at the end of the day, still very much an MMO and it tires me out also.

[cdbd3rd]

Concur all of the above - except I do play LOTRO as well. It is different and follows more standard MMO click-n-wait combat. I don't raid there either, and just play it to relax - even sometimes spending some time throwing a line in the water and gathering fish.

When those aren't doing it for me, it's back to Diablo 2 for me. (Hate D3, and PoE just didn't click with me for some reason.)


I'd buy a new puter for DDO2. :o

[JOTMON]

DDO 2 would be the fix for power creep. Fresh slate, DDO still running for people who couldn't give up Mini-Thor, etc.
~snip~
.


Nah, there would be a transfer option with carry over perks to entice veteran DDO1 players to switch.

[Knobull]

Why not? What are the shortcomings of LOTRO as compared to DDO?

Mostly this:


... follows more standard MMO click-n-wait combat.

---


... a shot at getting their UI customisation options embedded into DDO.

That Lua plugin system did indeed catch my eye...

[Hcinrich_Hain]

"Character generation that is more than: pick class, pick specialty, go."
(If only Elder Scrolls Online was like the single player games in that regard...)

and the other things mentioned are a big plus a DDO 2
however should focus on what MMORPGs leave out:

Roleplay

Really, aligments hardly matter?
No choices - do the quest to get the reward instead
of pick a way that suits your character to get a reward.

No way of players influencing the game.
I remember in Planescape Torment a whole down
changed planes...
I mean how much has Stormreach changed
in half a decade?

That'd be the hard part of making a new DDO.

[Greyhawk6]

DDO doesn't compare to using a big tv and four boxing four toons at once to max level while also levelling your own guild in Everquest 2. Most multi-box friendly game out there. Playing four toons simultaneously in combat and then getting so good at it that you can do a raid (albeit a basic one) single handed is awesome. Also making your own home, crafting furniture for it and bedecking it with a ton of trophies gained through your adventures. Riding on flying mounts, massive open world...a pity SOE/SSG decided to abandon all the content prior to level 85 :(. It's now a shadow of what it once was.

DDO is easily the least friendly to anyone who likes multi-boxing. That said, its by far and away the best one for character development - nothing I've tried has even come remotely close to what you can do in DDO. Even TESO.

[cnynridr2]

Since my main character is nearing the end of a tempest ranger life and was farming tokens to TR and there is no fix in sight for months for the crit multiplier bug, I thought I'd try some other MMOs this weekend...

First up was LOTRO. OMG. Just. Can't. Do. It.

Next up was Guild Wars 2. Bit better than LOTRO, but still the combat system of every other MMO I have tried over the years just does not compare in the least.

We cannot let DDO die. Or if it does, the combat system needs to be replicated in another game.

I feel less inclined to complain about everything that is wrong with DDO now. :)



The same for myself.
i tried alot of the other MMO'S and just couldn't stay with them. I guess your first love is the one you always go back to. If there was a way to upgrade the graphics we would have a lot more players playing but as they are we won't unfortunately.

I will always complain about the ladder bug!!! it still hasn't been fixed.

When DDO dies I am not sure what I will do. Go outside in the 110 heat. Yayyyyy!!!

Lighter

[Artrish]

still the combat system of every other MMO I have tried over the years just does not compare in the least.

I find other MMO's the same as DDO.

I had played DDO for roughly 10 years of my life and was accustomed to the combat and scene. It took me 2 years to switch out of the mindset though once it happened it is challenging to go back to DDO as DDO feels awkward.

DDO is still a good game and much more community inclusive then when I first started back in the early naughties. Other games have just as much variety, just takes a while to get accustomed to using it.

The only part I miss in DDO are the friends I met though the game mechanics involved in those interactions are a story for another topic

[Hydian]

Why not? What are the shortcomings of LOTRO as compared to DDO?

Played LOTRO from beta until a little while after Wardens were introduced and then sporadically after that for a while. I still occasionally log in, roam around, and say hi to any guildies that happen to be on, but that's about it.

The combat is terrible! It is completely turn based, though they have gotten better at obfuscating that since beta. If you pay attention, there is a delay between when you hit an ability and when it fires. This is on a strict round timer, rather than being lag based. I played a minstrel in beta and during the beginnings of live and it was extremely noticeable back then. Not as noticeable when I leveled up my Warden. It is also EQ/WoW based button mashing (the EQ Bard being an outlier) with no tactics involved which is the norm for MMOs, really. Only a few like DAoC, WAR, and DDO bucked that trend (and the first two had heavy PvP elements).

It also follows the same general F2P model as DDO, but it feels a lot harsher to me. There is pretty much nothing to do past a certain level (20?) unless you start buying packs.

Character customization is fairly limited, like most class/level based systems. I haven't really tried to decypher the last couple of skill/ability revamps, so it might be better than it used to be.

Unless there has been a graphics revamp since I last logged in, you have these beautiful vistas and wonderful villages that are populated by models that all look like they rolled out of the gutter that morning.


All of that said, if you like Tolkien (and even if you don't) the world is well worth exploring and the vistas are gorgeous. They have explorer and kill achievements like WAR introduced, a lot of fun quests and events (great stories, too), and it is a slightly different take on the holy trinity. I recommend it in the same way that I recommend Secret World. You aren't going to like the combat and the mechanics won't blow you away, but the world and adventures make up for it. You'll still come back to DDO though.

[PsychoBlonde]

Concur all of the above - except I do play LOTRO as well. It is different and follows more standard MMO click-n-wait combat. I don't raid there either, and just play it to relax - even sometimes spending some time throwing a line in the water and gathering fish.

When those aren't doing it for me, it's back to Diablo 2 for me. (Hate D3, and PoE just didn't click with me for some reason.)


I'd buy a new puter for DDO2. :o

Try Grim Dawn, you might enjoy it.

[Egeus]

DDO is easily the least friendly to anyone who likes multi-boxing.

That's a feature rather than a bug IMO ;)

[Greyhawk6]

That's a feature rather than a bug IMO ;)

Haha - yeah I know its not everyone's cup of tea. You can still do it in DDO, it's just extremely slow and laborious and you can kind of get your party all fighting at once occasionally but really it's only use is for guild xp farming and maybe mats/collectibles.

I don't enjoy groups much in DDO. Unless it's a bunch of casual players or me and my mates. Grouping is great if you are all the same level of expertise, abysmal if you're not. Reaper notwithstanding. Even then you still get the twitch players running ahead all the time...annoying as hell.

[Thumbed_Servant]

If there every is a DDO 2, I hope it has a stingy GM.

Aye aye!!!

[Gratch]

Tried Warhammer, AoConan, Wildstar, Neverwinter, and ESO. While the run through the leveling up isn't too bad (and Wild Star was pretty great for platforming exploration, platforming moves around specific boss fights (but not general attack/defense), and thematically), the only 3 classes most of these support (tank, heal, dps) and optimal combat rotations of 1-10 mostly regardless of monster type that you settle upon at cap get too repetitious to play past the base campaign. Though I stayed in some for guild/PvP type stuff.

I think the 100% PvE focus, 20+ combat bars, FPS interface including dodging and more active combat contribute highly to DDO's longevity. Also variance of monster types/attacks/vulnerabilities. All of the things I most like about DDO were mostly listed as its negatives in the initial reviews at launch. "Why no PVP!, Why FPS?, Why not purely turn based?"

Things DDO could pull from each of these:

Warhammer: Their tiered, scaled public encounter combat system would help with DDO's feeling more "Massively"MO. I think a portion of the marketplace and eveningstar should have a devil/drow attack every once in a while, (not just Deleras in October but something daily). With 2-4 tiers of progress. e.g., Defeat Devil Wave 1, Close the Portals, Defeat the three devil bosses.

Wildstar: A number of platformer raids/dungeon designs could easily fit with DDO's playstyle though it would not be for everyone. Hopefully some of the content devs have played through Wildstar. Also... more massively vertical explorer areas needed... like stormhorns but more compact.

Age of Conan: The combat added an extra dimension toward directing attacks to the weak spot. DDO has some of that in facing requirements on some bosses or tells/special attacks from monsters such as Lord of Blades, but for AoC it was baked into the general combat system. Not directly portable, but I think keeping each boss fight spicy and not just bag of HP should be a goal in every quest.

Neverwinter: I think we already have 40+ forum threads on how we'd love player created content along with dev responses that the tools in DDO no way allow that. Would be nice if SSG was more open to player input as to upcoming campaigns for which levels and say alpha looks at map/monster setup. Though content design via committee may over-stress a number of designers... so maybe just sometimes. :)

[Chai]

Next up was Guild Wars 2. Bit better than LOTRO, but still the combat system of every other MMO I have tried over the years just does not compare in the least.



If you master gw2, youll see the character build system has far more complexity than most other MMOs. The issue is the combat system involves using the exact same rotations of button pushing you see in all other MMOs. DDO doesnt escape this either. While there are some specific situations where using something different is optimal, much of that has been withered away and eroded by the community demands to make the game easier, and the result of that is after one rotation is memorized it works in most situations.

[sephiroth1084]

DDO2 could also be 5th edition.

Never happen.

And that's why I wouldn't want a DDO 2. I like the 3.5 system. I prefer Pathfinder, but I hear they tried their own MMO.

[Astoroth]

I thought I'd try some other MMOs this weekend...

Next up was Guild Wars 2. Bit better than LOTRO, but still the combat system of every other MMO I have tried over the years just does not compare in the least.


Dunno how you could give any of those games a decent test in 1 week, much less a weekend. Testing all of them on one weekend is just implausible.


If you master gw2, youll see the character build system has far more complexity than most other MMOs. The issue is the combat system involves using the exact same rotations of button pushing you see in all other MMOs. DDO doesnt escape this either. While there are some specific situations where using something different is optimal, much of that has been withered away and eroded by the community demands to make the game easier, and the result of that is after one rotation is memorized it works in most situations.

GW2 does have some player skill combat evasion as well. Though the combat bars are pretty limited. Honestly the cheesy ability to dodge lots of spells and arrows in combat isn't much of a plus for DDO for me. It's more a symptom of how broken combat has become in DDO, and why so many people play ranged characters in reaper or w/e.

What GW2 does have going for it is a great modern interface with lots of player conveniences, deposit things to bank from anywhere read mail anywhere. And a great exploration and interactive jumping world, none of teh silly bouncing off walls and objects that DDO and ESO share.

[Havesmat]

We cannot let DDO die. Or if it does, the combat system needs to be replicated in another game.

What can we do about it? They destroyed the game. It's not our fault. They've taken the worst decisions all the way since 2012, and when you think things are going to get better... they get worse.... ALWAYS.

[harmlesslarry]

I think its odd that the person proclaiming the greatness of GW2 would also say he doesnt care for 1 2 3 button mashing... That game has what, five skill slots? You basically hit the same skill over and over and... I was a HUGE GW fan and didnt mind the small ammount of skills because they focused on balancing and complementing them to one another but the new one seems rather simple in comparison. The leveling is a total grindfest and doesnt represent a feeling of any real progression. The fact that you cannot be lvl 40 and enter a lvl 10 zone and be strong enough to clear it out fast baffles me. About the only good thing going for that game is the guild panel and the pvp, which I never got to enjoy because I couldnt stand to play the game. That pvp had a lot of promise though. The original GW was an excellent pvp and PVE game, probably the one game that got it right on both accounts.

[Chai]

GW2 does have some player skill combat evasion as well. Though the combat bars are pretty limited. Honestly the cheesy ability to dodge lots of spells and arrows in combat isn't much of a plus for DDO for me. It's more a symptom of how broken combat has become in DDO, and why so many people play ranged characters in reaper or w/e.

Thats the reason gw2-esque combat systems are superior to balancing games, over nerfing character power. The ability to dodge using your own human reflexes is limited by an energy bar, and kiting has multiple counters.


What GW2 does have going for it is a great modern interface with lots of player conveniences, deposit things to bank from anywhere read mail anywhere. And a great exploration and interactive jumping world, none of teh silly bouncing off walls and objects that DDO and ESO share.

And the ability to respec character builds when desired, free of charge.

[zehnvhex]

DDO is the ugly girlfriend who is amazing in bed. It's just lately she's had a headache a lot and now her cooking kinda sucks -but- she said she bought a really sexy outfit for halloween so we're all kinda just hanging out hoping that it pays off...

Anyways...

DDO's quests, prior to the last year or two, are some of the best out there. I think part of it is the ~feel~ of the dungeons. Too many other games so much focus is placed on the gimmick-laden mini-bosses in the dungeon. In most other games your dungeons are always sort of a one-off or a continuation of the zone you were grinding xp in. In DDO there's often a story linking 5~6 dungeons together and I think that, in part, leads to the affinity we feel towards them.

DDO is also unique in that it's one of the few games where platforming actually happens. Movement is a large factor and that allows for a certain level of play that you just don't get in other games. I can't think of another MMO where stutter step micro can make a huge difference in your defenses. I played WoW for 7+ years and they could have disabled the jump key and I never would have noticed for all it mattered in that game.

That being said...

There has been a -serious- decline in quest quality the last few updates. Run a quest like Lords of Dust or Siegebreaker and then run Newcomers. It's pretty obvious quite quickly which ones had a lot of planning, love and care put into them and which one feels like a module where someone drew a straight line and put an encounter every 6 feet.

Lords of Dust is exactly how I would feel a cultist hideout to feel like, the NPC's are interesting and varied, the characters involved have personality, the shift in zone design and the 'hidden' wall is well placed. There is a story told just by the layout and mob dialogue, the cultists make battlecries and shout for retaliation. The traps are thoughtfully placed and make sense. The mobs are placed where I would expect them to be in defending a base of operation from an incursion of Silver Flame zealots.

Then you run newcomers. Why are there giants there? What are they doing? The lizardmen fall over without saying a thing. Every pack of mobs has the same 4x2x1x combination of NPC types. The puzzle with the floating platforms is neat but feels so significantly out of place. Why is it there? The final area feels like just some abandoned corner of another zone, as if I took a wrong turn in Prey on the Hunter. I killed the dragon at the end and nothing changed. Wasn't I supposed to save it? I don't know!

Anyways...

There's a lot of potential here. There really is. I'd say it needs to do 3 things to really turn this ship around:

DDO needs a massive UI overhaul. I don't know if they will ever have the ability to invest in fixing it though as they seem to just be adding patchwork on top of patchwork until it one day just finally breaks and ends the game.

DDO needs to focus on quality of life. Right now DDO is kind of a chore to play. I spend more time prepping and running to quests then actually playing them. And I'm an 11 year veteran who has this stuff memorized to the point where I can do it blindfold. I feel bad for new players.

DDO needs to rediscover what it is to make good quests. When you manage to screw up ToEE so badly...

[Knobull]

Dunno how you could give any of those games a decent test in 1 week, much less a weekend. Testing all of them on one weekend is just implausible.

Combat system evaluation can take place in minutes. Exploring the entire game? No.

I played GW2 for most of the day yesterday, and the combat system was exactly the same as it was in my initial assessment, it did not change.

I don't expect that the LOTRO combat system has changed since last week either.

So my evaluation of the combat systems of all two of these games in comparison to DDO has not changed.

That said, the physics changes in DDO circa U19 are still a major problem. Pre-U19 physics was far superior. (I suspect those changes are also to blame for the increased server-side lag since then.)

[Greyhawk6]

There's physics in DDO??

Or...was?

[KoobTheProud]

That said, the physics changes in DDO circa U19 are still a major problem. Pre-U19 physics was far superior. (I suspect those changes are also to blame for the increased server-side lag since then.)

Melee combat is definitely hinkier than it was a few years ago. I used to be able to really move around the battlefield without seriously affecting the damage I was doing. Now if I do much more than stand toe-to-toe with a mob and auto-attack I am giving up damage in the process. When mobs move in combat it's no big deal for a ranged/caster but it's a serious drop in damage for a melee.

Basically the entire combat system feels stickier than it used too but the changes are only really apparent when I'm playing a character that wants to be right next to mobs to deal damage to them. I used to do the Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat Expertise, Whirlwind Attack feat load but now I'd be gimping myself dramatically if I took the chain. The problem is that all the things that make it good are now intermittently interfered with by combat lag and the way the new mob AI works. Running behind a mob that is retreating is likely to deal no damage at all to it for the interval it retreats in and only incidental damage to other mobs that get in the way during the move.

[goldgolem]

Over the last 11 years I have tried every other game out there. Nothing has come close to DDO

Other MMOs are wider, but DDO is the only one with depth

Edit: I am am marketer - this is why I get so frustrated at DDOs non-existent marketing. We know its great product - its time to tell people about it! This is why I even did free advertising on Facebook for DDO, to prove how cheap and easy it is for them to acquire customers

[Candela90]

I want DDO2 so badly...
I'd pay my all my life savings to play it.
Please someone make it happen.

[Aurora1979]

As far as mmo's go not much touches ddo. However, gaming has moved on from mmo's now a days. There are a lot more open world survival games coming out.

You should have a look at some of the newer games on the market thought, while not the same as ddo at all there are plenty of other genre of games out there that give excellent fight systems and engrossing game play.

Add to that the ability to make games look much better, run better, be more immersing etc with the new engines and stuff.

I keep popping back into ddo but the fact is, the reason it will now always struggle to greatly increase population. The game is great for nostalgia but it really quite dated now compared to new releases... Just not necessarily mmo's.

[BuyerSeller]

I go between Everquest and DDO most of the time. I used to also play city of hero's/villains, but sadly they shut it down. Another great game was FFXI, but now all people do is PL to max level, so not that great anymore imo.

My great hope is Pantheon if they ever release that lol

DDO has a lot of great thing about it, but it also has equal if not more bad things about it. They also keep giving us new things as a band aid or smokescreen instead of fixing the problems. In a way, they are fixing some of the problems and giving us new things at the same time when they do class passes, but those are few and far between. They need to give every class a pass ASAP. They need to stop nerfing as a solution to problems and start fixing other class tree's instead. I think a great example would be a Warlock. They did a great job with the warlock, and all people did was complain about it being OP and needing to be nerfed, so that is what they did more than once. That is NOT the problem, warlock is not the problem! The problem is almost every other class has horrible class tree's and broken enhancements etc. If they want to keep the game alive then focus more on fixing things that are broken and not releasing some new way for us to reincarnate!

[Nandos]

There was going to be a new MMO that would have been very appealing to DDO players. It was called Everquest Next, but it got cancelled by Daybreak. It was going to have a DDO like multiclassing system, great graphics, player designed castles etc.

Daybreak's MMO engine is called Forgelight and has been used by some games. They were supposed to be working on a newer version Forgelight 2, but I'm not sure if they still are.

The could certainly license it to SSG if they wanted to make something new, but making a AAA MMO requires a substantial amount of resources.

[Gremmlynn]

And that's why I wouldn't want a DDO 2. I like the 3.5 system. I prefer Pathfinder, but I hear they tried their own MMO.My personal preference would be for them to look at all editions for inspiration and set it in an "SSG edition" that uses what fits the flavor best from TSR/WotC while building it as a video game (i.e. dumping the simplistic math that causes so many problems with DDO and even with PnP).

[slarden]

I played some GW2 recently and I was expecting to be disappointed but found myself enjoying it quite a bit. If what you want is to make your character more powerful continuously with significant time investment DDO is the right game. If you are more interested in a social experience where the whole party feels they are contributing somewhat equally GW2 is a much better game.

The thing ddo offers is the ability to differentiate yourself in terms of power with accomplishments (past lifes, reaper ap, tomes, etc.) and build. Certain things like making a really solid DC caster are very rewarding after literally years of work sometimes.

The issue with DDO isn't mechanics, but rather too much variation in character power between players. A secondary problem is knowledge of favorable bugs, safe spots, cheese completions, etc. that are masked as "good builds" but are really just taking advantage of game bugs. It could be I am simply unaware of these things in GW2 but it doesn't seem to matter in GW2 anyhow. I wonder how many DDO casual folks migrated to GW2 because it reminds me a lot of DDO pre U14 from a grouping and cooperative perspective.

The other thing like I like about GW2 is that it seems if you need to take a break and come back, you haven't really lost any ground. But DDO also has its strengths but those strengths don't outweigh the disadvantages of DDO so much that I would be too concerned if they shut the game down or officially go into maintenance mode.

I hope they do well because the SSG families depend on the income, but at least in my opinion they haven't been the victims of bad luck. They really made some questionable choices even when warned by the community clearly and loudly, but I feel they usually meant well by what they did even if it was a disaster.

[Gannicus]

I want DDO2 so badly...
I'd pay my all my life savings to play it.
Please someone make it happen.

This ^^^ So much this ^^^

I would pay obscene amounts of money for a fresh slate that was more like the days before the enhancements became trees. That old system was limited but the game felt so much more D&D. +6 should be amazing and used to be. +7 was only found on epic gear which was truly epic to obtain. Now you kill a kobold, loot a chest in a level 15 quest and walk away with a +9 item or some BS. I dont even know what the RNG loot is up to now it just keeps climbing. I mean +17 Gear???!!!!!? Are you touched in the head?? I dont care what level you are +17 is ridiculous.

We need a fresh slate. The game has a steep learing curve and that was compensated for by most people running NNN/H/E newbies would frequently join groups running normal then get a taste of elite and it allowed them to learn appropriately. Then BB was introduced it was go Elite or go home. Very punishing for new players.

The TR system was revolutionary never seen before and an exceptional way to gain a bit of extra power and the gains where small but noticeable once they started to accumulate. And that is what a D&D game needs not do one thing and get massive gain the ePL's are too large. Then they throw racials in. 10 racial AP is MASSIVE in some builds. And then top on a free granted completionist feat?? The gains are too great.

And dont even get me started on the massacre that is reaper........what in the flying blue dragon is the point of adding a hardcore difficult if you are going to include a enhancement tree that allows you to turn it into easy mode???? Honestly WHY??!!!?? And then you add MORE xp gains on top of that!! No one wanted more xp from reaper they wanted more difficulty you made this massive carrot AGAIN and now it is go reaper or go home. How are we supposed to keep new players now??? You cant we need a fresh slate. I have a toon I have been working on for YEARS with a ton of PL's maxed crafting levels and a lot special gear that I would gladly walk away from for a fresh slate.

Please some one make DDO2 the money will come very quickly. I would buy the game for $200 and then pay a yearly sub for another $100 and gladly donate thousands to a kickstarter if the team didnt have the start up funds. Please make it happen.

/end rant

[Uska]

DDO ruined me until they ruined DDO with power creep and going Monty Haul

[Uska]

If there every is a DDO 2, I hope it has a stingy GM.

Yes please

[Chai]

Next up was Guild Wars 2. Bit better than LOTRO, but still the combat system of every other MMO I have tried over the years just does not compare in the least.



I would suggest going back and really learning GW2. You will find the combat system to be far from "every other MMO". I thought much the same when I first played GW2 because at that time the combat system was not fully implemented like it is today. Revisiting that game shows that their methods of handling power creep, build complexity, and keeping all roles relevant, are better than most, if not all games on the market today.

DDO could learn a thing or two from GW2 regarding lateral and horizontal progression systems.

[Brandwynn]

I have tried other games. DDO for me works. It has the spirit of the PnP. For an old timer like me. That means a lot. Though I could do with out of the Hack and slash and a little more roleplay. That is personal preference.

If DDO2 came out. i would be there. I do not see that happening any time in the future. On the other hand should this game close its doors. I would have to get up off my dead ass and actually go out, find a PnP group.

Other MMO's that I have tried. Does not entertain me as much as DDO does. For all of it flaws and the ladder bugs. For all the lag monster problems. We really need a greensteel weapon of lag monster killing. For all that. I would rather still bang around the underdark or the demon web on a afternoon. Even running a raid with my guildies at some godawful hour. Because of some are on the other side of the world. That time being when everyone can be there. At the same time.

I would rather spend time here on DDO. Forgetting the real world for a few hours. Than being almost anywhere else. It is worth it to me. For all of DDO bugs frustration and some of the most entertaining and wonderful visitas. I will chose to be in the game. With my h/orc rogue swinging his great ax. Or dancing on top of a fountain..

Let the doom criers here on the forums cry. The real fun is in the game.

That is my 2 cents.

[Phil7]

I would suggest going back and really learning GW2. You will find the combat system to be far from "every other MMO". I thought much the same when I first played GW2 because at that time the combat system was not fully implemented like it is today. Revisiting that game shows that their methods of handling power creep, build complexity, and keeping all roles relevant, are better than most, if not all games on the market today.

DDO could learn a thing or two from GW2 regarding lateral and horizontal progression systems.

I agree but note that my opinion is biased because I have been playing, not always actively, GW2 for 5 years (bought it on release) and have also played more than 4 years of GW1 before that with a lot of friends and old guildies. It is an amazing MMO and is considered right now to be the 2nd most popular after WOW. If it wasn't that good and was simply another button-mash fest then trust me it wouldn't be so famous and you wouldn't have in this thread alone at least 5 people mentioning it.

Yes, it does not surpass DDO's build diversity and so far I have found no MMO that does that, but compared to most of the other MMOs it's combat and it's build system are very advanced.
I played ESO for 10ish hours... it was fun but the combat and the build system became clear to me instantly. It felt like a lazy attempt from the devs to kind of make classes a bit unique and contained tons of passive bonuses just for the sake of diversity. It was all about passive DPS increase and various damaging abilites, Heals, personal-buffs (not even group buffs), 1 or 2 boss-debuffs from the tank and a few threat-generation abilities and then tons of passive power creep added from gear, stats, Champ Points etc.

Now look at GW2: tons of conditions, a class that can manipulate conditions in almost every way, that can turn into a Reaper and drastically change it's entire build with a simple trait line, a class that can manipulate time and create clones of itself, a class that can merge with it's pet and "become" the pet, reflects, missile absorptions, massive group buffs like quickness/Alacrity/Might/Fury which add a special role for classes that focus on maintaining those buffs, AoE use of invisibility for experienced players who want to speed run included in a single class (Thief), Portals, Spirits to buff ur group or debuff enemies, Banners, Shouts, Consecrations, Break-Bars and Interrupts which you have to time accurately and all sorts of things each one with their own purpose and effectiveness to create diversity and give classes a purpose in raids and dungeons.

I'm sorry but if u think this game has a generic and simplified combat and build system then u are free to do so... I will simply let the numbers speak for themselves. I can tell you that when the 1st raid came out, it took the players weeks before they could even defeat the second boss.

And I'm only touching the surface here... I haven't even mentioned world exploration, balanced PVP, zero P2W, buy-to-play, exploiting or cheesing (which doesn't exist or gets fixed instantly) and power creep (which is almost non-existant). Oh and the grinding does not limit you to specific quests over and over again. You can do almost everything and get exp.

Arenanet is one of the best developer teams out there with lots of experience behind them and have also managed to create one of the most advanced cosmetic-driven MMO out there. The graphics along with the level of detail on the gear is insane (wait till u see the Legendary G.swords) and the tons of fashion items on the Store are only optional, they don't affect your gameplay at all but some are still cool :)

[Hilltrot]

DDO ruined me until they ruined DDO with power creep and going Monty Haul

There is no long-lasting MMO without power creep. This is why most MMOs will continually bump up the level of characters - power creep.

Saying they ruined DDO with power creep is like saying people ruin their cars by adding gasoline.

The game was a high magic world to begin with. Monty Haul is the basis of every MMO.

[Hilltrot]

If there every is a DDO 2, I hope it has a stingy GM.

So you want people to grind a whole lot more for the same stuff. That always makes a game more fun . . . .

[Hilltrot]

What can we do about it? They destroyed the game. It's not our fault. They've taken the worst decisions all the way since 2012, and when you think things are going to get better... they get worse.... ALWAYS.

'member berries . . . mmmm

[Hilltrot]

Tried Warhammer, AoConan, Wildstar, Neverwinter, and ESO.

I find it strange that no one mentioned Tera - the only other MMO to have action combat. Warhammer died a horrible death. Why would you want to take any of their ideas?

Customer created content has never been a problem in Neverwinter . . . never. . . ever. . . .

Wildstar has nice new car smell.

AoConan is boring. I'm sorry but it is.

I have no clue about ESO.

[Uska]

I have tried other games. DDO for me works. It has the spirit of the PnP. For an old timer like me. That means a lot. Though I could do with out of the Hack and slash and a little more roleplay. That is personal preference.

If DDO2 came out. i would be there. I do not see that happening any time in the future. On the other hand should this game close its doors. I would have to get up off my dead ass and actually go out, find a PnP group.

Other MMO's that I have tried. Does not entertain me as much as DDO does. For all of it flaws and the ladder bugs. For all the lag monster problems. We really need a greensteel weapon of lag monster killing. For all that. I would rather still bang around the underdark or the demon web on a afternoon. Even running a raid with my guildies at some godawful hour. Because of some are on the other side of the world. That time being when everyone can be there. At the same time.

I would rather spend time here on DDO. Forgetting the real world for a few hours. Than being almost anywhere else. It is worth it to me. For all of DDO bugs frustration and some of the most entertaining and wonderful visitas. I will chose to be in the game. With my h/orc rogue swinging his great ax. Or dancing on top of a fountain..

Let the doom criers here on the forums cry. The real fun is in the game.

That is my 2 cents.

Ddo felt a bit like pnp before the enhancement system arrived then that feeling nearly vanished and with the power creep I can't even really see the roots any more there is almost more pnp feel to NWO then here almost

[walkin_dude]

So you want people to grind a whole lot more for the same stuff. That always makes a game more fun . . . .

No, I'd like it to be more like the D&D I played when I first started table-top gaming, which was ... uh ... about 1980 I guess.

Character progression is great, and always a goal, but it doesn't have to happen at breakneck speed.

Note that I don't feel the need to have every possible goodie within hours of starting, so my perspective is sure to be different from that of some other members of the community. I've been playing DDO for well over six years, and can count on one hand the times when I've done a "grind" to get something. I'd rather just play the game and get stuff as I get it.

On that topic, I can say that when I pull something cool at the end of a quest, I get a much more positive feeling from it than when I pull something I'm grinding for. When I've done a grind for some item, I've felt entitled to it by the time it lands in my inventory. Not nearly as positive of an experience.

[Knobull]

On that topic, I can say that when I pull something cool at the end of a quest, I get a much more positive feeling from it than when I pull something I'm grinding for. When I've done a grind for some item, I've felt entitled to it by the time it lands in my inventory. Not nearly as positive of an experience.

Bingo. Just say no to the grind. I just play DDO when I feel like it because it is fun and mostly entertaining way to pass the time. On one of my main characters it has taken me about 5 years to reach the third life.


Someone above was talking about the GW2 combat system being just as good as DDO? No comparison at all. I played GW2 until the free content ran out (a few days worth of play) and the combat system remained exactly the same the whole time. Does the GW2 combat system change later in the game? In all the free content it is extremely simplistic in the style of a Perfect World game (actually even more simplified than the Perfect World combat systems IIRC).

[acdcrocks]

Since my main character is nearing the end of a tempest ranger life and was farming tokens to TR and there is no fix in sight for months for the crit multiplier bug, I thought I'd try some other MMOs this weekend...

First up was LOTRO. OMG. Just. Can't. Do. It.

Next up was Guild Wars 2. Bit better than LOTRO, but still the combat system of every other MMO I have tried over the years just does not compare in the least.

We cannot let DDO die. Or if it does, the combat system needs to be replicated in another game.

I feel less inclined to complain about everything that is wrong with DDO now. :)

tried PoE last year..way more updates and a responsive dev team to boot. Need more incentive? they just released an expansion that more than doubled the content. my vote goes to poe ;p

[Knobull]

... my vote goes to poe ;p

Poe? As in Edgar Allan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Allan_Poe)?

[acdcrocks]

Poe? As in Edgar Allan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Allan_Poe)?

google is a helpful tool

[Knobull]

google is a helpful tool

DuckDuckGo (https://duckduckgo.com/) is a better tool. :)

[walkin_dude]

DuckDuckGo (https://duckduckgo.com/) is a better tool. :)

I agree completely. I read an article a couple of years ago about "the Google bubble," looked around and found DuckDuckGo, and have been using it ever since.

[Whitering]

Why not? What are the shortcomings of LOTRO as compared to DDO?

Leveling is a long, long, long process and that's even if you ignore all the farming you really should do as you level to get your virtues and class/racial traits maxed.

I mean, they hid trait points behind obscene big battle farming, insanely long quest and rep farming and also sub standard build usage. Ouch.

I can probably TR a character 15 times in the same amount of game time it takes to level a character in LotRO.

Finally, in DDO your good gear remains useful, if not for alts, then for your TRing, in LotRO the gear gets invalidated every single time they issue a new expansion, I will never forget farming Hytbold gear for weeks and unlocking it for all my characters only to realise that, at the time, 2nd tier level 85 gear was crushed by level 86 common gear as of the next expansion. That hurt, and I've never farmed any gear since, I may do so when the game goes into maintenance.

Now, I love Middle Earth, so I still play Lotro, but it comes in spurts, because I've done this all before and it's a long process, not like DDO, 1-20 or 15-30 then poof, maybe 12 hours if you are slow.

There are other differences, but if you love Middle Earth, start as any class, play through the intro, they are all pretty decent, and then head right to the Shire and deliver pies and letters, you will have to quest there for your virtue anyway, might as well have fun doing it, also kill every slug you see, just a pro tip.