Ranger Bow dps or rogue repeater. Which will I like more?

[Jaysun]

So i am very familiar and knowledgeable with my repeater 18/2 rogue/arti built. I have like 16 Pl's all dedicated to the build and they will transfer nicely to a ranger.

My playstyle is I don't like having to click a lot of buttons 1-3 max during rights. I love toggles and passives:P I also MUST be able to do all traps/locks because I duo with my wife and it just allows us to maximize experience/the quest.

So with that...I am not happy with my rogue because of sneak attack. When it's working its great dps but when I am not getting the sneak attack bonus...I feel like I am just useless on the dps. I either have yellow numbers all day or just immune all over the place. But with LD and sneak attack working its amazing.

I am thinking that maybe I should give ranger a serious shot. My wife and I duo all the time and unless I am using assassin trick I never get sneak attack damage because I constantly have aggro. Also when I am trying to hit multiple mobs only the one I am targeting gets the SA damage..the rest dont.

I am wondering if the damage on ranger is more up front all the time without having to deal with SA? How close do rangers compare to rogues repeaters with DPS? At they just better all around due to more upfront damage? Also how much constant casting of abilities will I have to be doing while fighting?

I want to great at traps and really put out a lot of dps on trash mobs and bosses. I've seen builds but not playing a ranger before I am not 100% sure how it relates to what I want above? Does not going 20 full ranger gimp the bow damage?

Thanks.

Going to be doing a lot of Racial Tr's and wondering if I should focus on Dex/Str/ or Int if I go ranger.

[Alfhild]

If traps are a must then pure Ranger is out
1 Barb for runspeed.
1 Art gives all the x-bow wep profs and rapid reload.
18 ranger gives access to the L18 cores in DWS and AA.
My suggestion is to go 1 Art/3 Rgr/ 1 Barb /Rest Ranger.
Bow RoF is highly BAB dependent and is not that great (outside of Manyshot) until higher levels.
Run with repeaters and switch to bow for Manyshot.
Put your first 22 pts in AA to get both the 4 tiers of elemental arrows and Force imbues. Use elemental for everything except mobs immune to the element and incorps.
Next 12 into Harper
Get a House C challenge item for your elemental spellpower and have an impulse item to swap in for force.
31 pts in AA to get the L18 core
35 pts in DWS to get SSL(*edit SLL) and an extra FE
14 pts in Harper for Int to hit/dam, KTA, and an extra FE.
You'll have 6 FE's for +12 dam along with the +5 from DWS for a total +17

I am currently running a L8 Elf Pure Arti with Elven AA. The 3peat damage from elemental imbues is sweet (until they fix it).

[Jaysun]

But how would the dps compare to the 18/2 rogue/arti build? As I said in my post i've seen a lot of builds but I am not knowledgeable with ranger so not sure how they actually perform in reaper/endgame? Also is the playstyle action heavy? Meaning do i have to use multiple instant abilities to max perform it?

I am also very curious to your arti build. I thought the AA tree mostly dealt with bows, not crossbows (I gotta read again). Hows that build working for ya in epic levels?

[katz]

my understanding is the AA imbues working on crossbows is a bug and will eventually be fixed.

that said, i currently have a ranger-based monkcher (11 ranger 6 monk 3 rogue). my AA completionist project just finished her ranger life (11 ranger 8 monk 1 rogue)... both very strong... the former i haven't played as much. the latter i leveled the ranger life mostly in R1/R2 duo with a friend (also an AA). the damage is very nice if you already know how to play a ranged build well and have some gear aimed at that style of build... traps not a problem (i hate traps. i like 30% extra bonus xp) unless i do something like go straight into a 30th level quest as a fresh 20... as long as i was reasonably close to my level range i was able to do the traps. sounds like you already got the gear for that, so you should be fine in that department also

as for active abilities/clickies etc etc etc etc.... depends on your build to some degree. as a ranger-based archer, your go-to DPS ability will be manyshot. if you add at least 6 monk levels you add 10k stars to that... an AA gets slayer arrows, and DWS gets sniper shot (nice damage, and gives you sneak attack for a few seconds). and there's also potentially action boost: damage. so... typically... 1-2 "instant" one shot damage buttons... a damage boost which lasts 20 seconds (5 charges per rest, or more if so specced), and every 2 minutes or so a 20 second mega DPS boost.

[Alfhild]

But how would the dps compare to the 18/2 rogue/arti build? As I said in my post i've seen a lot of builds but I am not knowledgeable with ranger so not sure how they actually perform in reaper/endgame? Also is the playstyle action heavy? Meaning do i have to use multiple instant abilities to max perform it?

I am also very curious to your arti build. I thought the AA tree mostly dealt with bows, not crossbows (I gotta read again). Hows that build working for ya in epic levels?
I have not levelled to epic in this build and it is the first time trying Arti w/Arrow imbues. Again, as the person above mentioned, this is a bug. Special shots are supposed to work with xbows but not imbues. However primary imbues (i.e. Force, Elemental, 'enchants') work if toggled on with a bow equipped and then switching to xbow. Thesecondary imbues (DR breakers, Shadow arrows) do not work at all.

As for DPS, I would day it is in fact better than a mechanic in Heroic pre-18 levels since the elemental imbues put out major damage. It is when the L18 mech core come in that I think mech would beat this build.
As for other comparisons, pure Ranger would be better, and a 1 Rogue/6 Ranger/13 Monk would be better than that. The problem of course is monk squishiness and you become a shuriken bow build as opposed to an xbow/bow build.
As for Reaper, I have not been farming it really at all. Just doing R1 for the xp bonus when soloing, higher R's if I can get a group.

[Soleran100]

I have not levelled to epic in this build and it is the first time trying Arti w/Arrow imbues. Again, as the person above mentioned, this is a bug. Special shots are supposed to work with xbows but not imbues. However primary imbues (i.e. Force, Elemental, 'enchants') work if toggled on with a bow equipped and then switching to xbow. Thesecondary imbues (DR breakers, Shadow arrows) do not work at all.

As for DPS, I would day it is in fact better than a mechanic in Heroic pre-18 levels since the elemental imbues put out major damage. It is when the L18 mech core come in that I think mech would beat this build.
As for other comparisons, pure Ranger would be better, and a 1 Rogue/6 Ranger/13 Monk would be better than that. The problem of course is monk squishiness and you become a shuriken bow build as opposed to an xbow/bow build.
As for Reaper, I have not been farming it really at all. Just doing R1 for the xp bonus when soloing, higher R's if I can get a group.

Why not 1 arti/6ranger/13monk? Even if your not centered you can still pew pew pew with repeaters and get traps.

[Jaysun]

Why not 1 arti/6ranger/13monk? Even if your not centered you can still pew pew pew with repeaters and get traps.

Mind showing me a basic build and why it would be good? Some minor background with me is I was a cleric...then an artificer when it came out...then made the 18/2 rog/art when artificer became less useful as time went on. I've seen and read some of the monk builds but I have no experience playing it.

The more I think about it I am leaning toward just staying with my rogue (full great crossbow build) but is there a ranger/rogue build with greatcross bows that would hit harder/better? (Not using the AA bug). Or would a dex based ranger/rogue using bows hit better? I just hit 30 and am about to TR back to one (iconic). I am thinking of doing some type of 5 rogue/XX ranger/1 Art build so I can just test a ton of things. But I basically want a build that hits hard without depending on SA if possible and can get any trap out there. Anyone have one of those lying around heh.

[Alfhild]

Why not 1 arti/6ranger/13monk? Even if your not centered you can still pew pew pew with repeaters and get traps.
Being Uncentred will drain KI very fast prohibiting use of 10K stars.

[Alfhild]

Mind showing me a basic build and why it would be good? Some minor background with me is I was a cleric...then an artificer when it came out...then made the 18/2 rog/art when artificer became less useful as time went on. I've seen and read some of the monk builds but I have no experience playing it.

The more I think about it I am leaning toward just staying with my rogue (full great crossbow build) but is there a ranger/rogue build with greatcross bows that would hit harder/better? (Not using the AA bug). Or would a dex based ranger/rogue using bows hit better? I just hit 30 and am about to TR back to one (iconic). I am thinking of doing some type of 5 rogue/XX ranger/1 Art build so I can just test a ton of things. But I basically want a build that hits hard without depending on SA if possible and can get any trap out there. Anyone have one of those lying around heh.
1 rogue/18 Ranger/1 x where x can be fighter/wizard or barb.
Barb for faster movement.
Fighter for extra feat.
Wizard for extra feat as well as opening up Spellcraft as a class skill for extra spellpower.

1 Rogue/6 Ranger/13 Monk
I actually just finished a Shadar-Kai life using this split.

Both would utilize bows though the monk split also benefits from being built to use shuriken. However swapping between bow and shuriken will bug the shuriken to use imbues so you would want to use bow exclusively.

If you are looking for a specific build, you would want to list your stat tomes.

[Jaysun]

1 rogue/18 Ranger/1 x where x can be fighter/wizard or barb.
Barb for faster movement.
Fighter for extra feat.
Wizard for extra feat as well as opening up Spellcraft as a class skill for extra spellpower.

1 Rogue/6 Ranger/13 Monk
I actually just finished a Shadar-Kai life using this split.

Both would utilize bows though the monk split also benefits from being built to use shuriken. However swapping between bow and shuriken will bug the shuriken to use imbues so you would want to use bow exclusively.

If you are looking for a specific build, you would want to list your stat tomes.

I have a +7 to all tome. 3 PL ranger/rogue. 2 barb/1art/1sorc/1cleric/1fight/1wiz Epic Pl I have doubleshot x3. enchant weapon x2 fortifcationx2 and colors of the queen x1 (when i didnt know it was one or the other with doubleshot). Iconic just bladeforgex2 No racial PL yet.

Also am VIP for harper.

[Alfhild]

For Skills, you will be able to max Concentration, Disable Device, Heal, Search, Spellcraft, Spot, and UMD have points to spare.
If you have a Pinion or Epic Sapphire Sting, you do not need Blinding Speed at L27.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 4.35.101
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 30 Lawful Good Human Male
(13 Monk \ 1 Rogue \ 6 Ranger \ 10 Epic)
Hit Points: 558
Spell Points: 145
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 23
Reflex: 24
Will: 15

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 30)
Strength 8 15
Dexterity 15 25
Constitution 16 23
Intelligence 17 32
Wisdom 13 20
Charisma 8 15

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Strength used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Strength used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Strength used at level 19 \par +6 Tome of Strength used at level 23 \par +7 Tome of Strength used at level 27 \par +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 19 \par +6 Tome of Dexterity used at level 23 \par +7 Tome of Dexterity used at level 27 \par +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19 \par +6 Tome of Constitution used at level 23 \par +7 Tome of Constitution used at level 27 \par +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19 \par +6 Tome of Intelligence used at level 23 \par +7 Tome of Intelligence used at level 27 \par +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 19 \par +6 Tome of Wisdom used at level 23 \par +7 Tome of Wisdom used at level 27 \par +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Charisma used at level 19 \par +6 Tome of Charisma used at level 23 \par +7 Tome of Charisma used at level 27 \par

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Human Bonus) Insightful Reflexes




Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Lawful Outsider


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 4 (Ranger)


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Mobility


Level 10 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Ten Thousand Stars


Level 14 (Monk)


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot


Level 16 (Monk)


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Shot on the Run


Level 19 (Monk)


Level 20 (Monk)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Combat Archery


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Arcane Sphere: Epic Spell Power: Force


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Primal Sphere: Doubleshot


Level 29 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Multiple Spheres: Harbinger of Chaos


Level 30 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Damage Reduction
Feat: (Legendary) Scion of Arborea
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Conjure Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Shock Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Elemental Damage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Soul Magic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Elemental Damage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Elemental Damage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Far Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sneak Attack (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sniper Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Stealthy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Stealthy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Stealthy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Versatile Empathy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Survivalist I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Survivalist II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Thrill of the Hunt (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Thrill of the Hunt (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Thrill of the Hunt (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Aimed Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Survivalist III (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Killer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Killer (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Killer (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Merciful Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Strikes Like Lightning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Head Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Shadow Veil (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Harper Agent - Agent of Good (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Harper Agent - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Harper Agent - Traveler's Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Harper Agent - Traveler's Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Harper Agent - Strategic Combat I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Harper Agent - Know The Angles (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Harper Agent - Know The Angles (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Harper Agent - Know The Angles (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Harper Agent - Strategic Combat II (Rank 1)

[Jaysun]

Thanks for the build. Some questions thou. So is this a shuriken based build? whats the "rotation" I am suppose to be using. Does arcane archer work on shurikens? Or is this a bow build. Is the purpose to basically keep switching between 10k stars and manyshot? So your basically rapid firing the entire time? (or with limited cooldown?) Also is evasion in this at all. Monks get it at level 2 or something (can't remember).

I see that ninja spy uses dex as the modifier and harper uses int. I assume whatever is higher is going to work? Also. Whats the rank 1 of action boost for? Just ran out of points for rank 3? I assume LD is the way to go for epic destinies? If so id just grab it from there i think. Or is something else better for this?

[Alfhild]

Thanks for the build. Some questions thou. So is this a shuriken based build? whats the "rotation" I am suppose to be using. Does arcane archer work on shurikens? Or is this a bow build. Is the purpose to basically keep switching between 10k stars and manyshot? So your basically rapid firing the entire time? (or with limited cooldown?) Also is evasion in this at all. Monks get it at level 2 or something (can't remember).

I see that ninja spy uses dex as the modifier and harper uses int. I assume whatever is higher is going to work? Also. Whats the rank 1 of action boost for? Just ran out of points for rank 3? I assume LD is the way to go for epic destinies? If so id just grab it from there i think. Or is something else better for this?
What I posted is pure bow. I Shuriken build would have Shuriken expertise and Quick Draw. Primary AA imbues work on Shuriken in the same way the work with xbows. In other words they are bugged and will work.
With Manyshot/10K builds you tend to use one of two rotations.
1)
Manyshot 20 seconds
Single shot 10 seconds
10K stars 20 seconds
Single shot 30 seconds
Repeat
2)
10K stars 30 seconds
Manyshot 20 seconds
Single shot 10 seconds
10K stars 30 seconds
Single shot 30 seconds

Monks get evasion at L2
The larger of the two stats apply.
Ninja MP/RP action boost only has one tier for 2AP

FotW for Excellent Burst DPS
LD for Excellent Sustained DPS
DC for Good DPS plus healing
Shiradi for Decent DPS and CC

[Jaysun]

Random question,

If I download the test server and transfer my character, is it possible to do a respec of him into those level/class mix? Love to actually try this out before I commit to a TR. Anyone know how that works or if its possible?

[Jaysun]

I notice you dont have slayer shot in the build you gave me. I saw someone posted a U33 furythrower and they were getting 39k crits using adrenaline and slayer shot together. I am thinking of going that way. Is there a big reason I shouldnt?

[Alfhild]

I notice you dont have slayer shot in the build you gave me. I saw someone posted a U33 furythrower and they were getting 39k crits using adrenaline and slayer shot together. I am thinking of going that way. Is there a big reason I shouldnt?

Two schools of thought. Taking Slayer in the top tier of AA locks you out of the top tier of DWS. So you do get a better burst for furyshotting but lose the +20% doubleshot from SLL. Depends on your situation and your ED. I would go SLL in DC or LD for instance,

[katz]

Random question,

If I download the test server and transfer my character, is it possible to do a respec of him into those level/class mix? Love to actually try this out before I commit to a TR. Anyone know how that works or if its possible?

i think i do this at least once or twice every time Lammy is up. that's what i love it for. lol. just make sure you pull any "must have" equipment from your TR cache (or is it shared bank? probably both to be safe) before you character copy...


I notice you dont have slayer shot in the build you gave me. I saw someone posted a U33 furythrower and they were getting 39k crits using adrenaline and slayer shot together. I am thinking of going that way. Is there a big reason I shouldnt?

bigger crits... bigger burst... from AA manyshot/damage boost/slayer arrow (especially if you can get a pin/whistler in there first for helpless damage). higher sustain/faster trash killing from T5 DWS. you won't get the big sexy crits... but the overall damage per draw when NOT bursting is higher

[Blastyswa]

So i am very familiar and knowledgeable with my repeater 18/2 rogue/arti built. I have like 16 Pl's all dedicated to the build and they will transfer nicely to a ranger.

My playstyle is I don't like having to click a lot of buttons 1-3 max during rights. I love toggles and passives:P I also MUST be able to do all traps/locks because I duo with my wife and it just allows us to maximize experience/the quest.

So with that...I am not happy with my rogue because of sneak attack. When it's working its great dps but when I am not getting the sneak attack bonus...I feel like I am just useless on the dps. I either have yellow numbers all day or just immune all over the place. But with LD and sneak attack working its amazing.

I am thinking that maybe I should give ranger a serious shot. My wife and I duo all the time and unless I am using assassin trick I never get sneak attack damage because I constantly have aggro. Also when I am trying to hit multiple mobs only the one I am targeting gets the SA damage..the rest dont.

I am wondering if the damage on ranger is more up front all the time without having to deal with SA? How close do rangers compare to rogues repeaters with DPS? At they just better all around due to more upfront damage? Also how much constant casting of abilities will I have to be doing while fighting?

I want to great at traps and really put out a lot of dps on trash mobs and bosses. I've seen builds but not playing a ranger before I am not 100% sure how it relates to what I want above? Does not going 20 full ranger gimp the bow damage?

Thanks.

Going to be doing a lot of Racial Tr's and wondering if I should focus on Dex/Str/ or Int if I go ranger.

For my personal recommendation, I'd either go 18/2 ranger/rogue and do Arcane Archer with at least 11 AP Sniper for Sniper Shot, or do some type of deep split such as 12/6/2 ranger/monk/rogue and use 10k stars as well as manyshot. The second version is more commonplace and probably will be better, but the first version should work fine as well.

[Jaysun]

For my personal recommendation, I'd either go 18/2 ranger/rogue and do Arcane Archer with at least 11 AP Sniper for Sniper Shot, or do some type of deep split such as 12/6/2 ranger/monk/rogue and use 10k stars as well as manyshot. The second version is more commonplace and probably will be better, but the first version should work fine as well.

How would the 18ranger/2rogue compare to a 18 rog/2 art? Will the dps be pretty comparable just delivered differently? I think I am leaning toward something simple like 18 ranger/2 rogue. I've never been great with 3 class splits ect. I dont have to be the best dps possible but I want to be 85% good with surviabilty

[goodspeed]

So i am very familiar and knowledgeable with my repeater 18/2 rogue/arti built. I have like 16 Pl's all dedicated to the build and they will transfer nicely to a ranger.

My playstyle is I don't like having to click a lot of buttons 1-3 max during rights. I love toggles and passives:P I also MUST be able to do all traps/locks because I duo with my wife and it just allows us to maximize experience/the quest.

So with that...I am not happy with my rogue because of sneak attack. When it's working its great dps but when I am not getting the sneak attack bonus...I feel like I am just useless on the dps. I either have yellow numbers all day or just immune all over the place. But with LD and sneak attack working its amazing.

I am thinking that maybe I should give ranger a serious shot. My wife and I duo all the time and unless I am using assassin trick I never get sneak attack damage because I constantly have aggro. Also when I am trying to hit multiple mobs only the one I am targeting gets the SA damage..the rest dont.

I am wondering if the damage on ranger is more up front all the time without having to deal with SA? How close do rangers compare to rogues repeaters with DPS? At they just better all around due to more upfront damage? Also how much constant casting of abilities will I have to be doing while fighting?

I want to great at traps and really put out a lot of dps on trash mobs and bosses. I've seen builds but not playing a ranger before I am not 100% sure how it relates to what I want above? Does not going 20 full ranger gimp the bow damage?

Thanks.

Going to be doing a lot of Racial Tr's and wondering if I should focus on Dex/Str/ or Int if I go ranger.

Its a tough call. With SA ya id say the repeater would win. Being that you toss in vorpal (which lands alot) you can fully invest in int for hit and dmg, and their are ways to force SA dmg on a target be it bluff and racial bluff (half elf) some of the rog enhancments, inproved deception, ect.

Another way is also going for a 14 pally split to trade a bit of SA dmg for full frontal damage with holy. And using gear plus precision to force crit damage on fully fortified mobs. (More easier still with TF)

Rangers however are a bit more versatile but are more loaded from enhancments now with the AA tree being the lead as with a good spellpower item such as the circlet each arrow can pack a punch with that extra 60 to 85 acid damage early on. However with doubleshot the way it is 3 and 4 arrows is not the norm anymore with many and 10k even with a crapload of monk and doubleshot. So the repeater has an edge. BUT! as stated the rangers rely alot more on attacks that deliver +2 +3 (I think theirs a +5) attacks as well as front loaded damage like slayer AND the aoe shot from tier 5 AA.

So they're more in line. Id say very early 1 to 8ish the repeater holds top. Then around 9 to 16 the bow gets its stuff from enhancments and levels and then they're matched (assuming the rog has the way of forcing SA, time bombs all that. Then after 16 the bow edges out with better spellpower and more action points for it to basically just keep firing off 3w hits and whatnot with deepwood and AA, monsters get alot more HP and it gets alot harder to kill them as your depending solely on forcing SA dmg with very little. Which is where I find the pally route makes it more even as you subtract a bit of SA in favor of a more secure means to dmg. (Lets face it the repeaters are like 1d20 with a x2)

Now going into epics the bow will rape the repeater. It just will. You have massive elemental dmg that will dmg even if they are doing 1 or 0 reduced damage from not bypassing (Ive killed the indom in LH tempest just with that cause I was dumb and forgot the bow lol) It climbs far and away when you add Furyshots to the mix which are wai.

And if your a monkcher (lol who isnt with a bow) you also have that 50% (extra miss chance) incorp spam ability. And in reaper as your grinding to cap I can tell you that is very very nice to have in hand to hand or ranged.

So in heroics its mostly either or with more utlility given to arrows. And then definitely arrows in epic. Not to say the repeater or great cant shine well in dreadnot or maybe even shirardi (really its dread) but the arrows even with only 2 landing are gonna tear through in damage with a fury burst and an enhancement attack.

[Stoner81]

How would the 18ranger/2rogue compare to a 18 rog/2 art? Will the dps be pretty comparable just delivered differently? I think I am leaning toward something simple like 18 ranger/2 rogue. I've never been great with 3 class splits ect. I dont have to be the best dps possible but I want to be 85% good with surviabilty

Personally I think 18 Rogue/2 Arti would have more DPS than 18 Ranger/2 Rogue due to Sneak Attack dice plus all the extras you get for boosting crossbow DPS from the Mechanic tree which is huge.

As for the Monkcher builds mentioned they are fairly straight forward, I have one which is 12 Monk, 6 Ranger, 2 Pally but you could probably swap the 2 Pally for 2 Rogue easy enough. I can send you a PM with the build in it later on tonight when I get home if you would like :)

Stoner81.

[blerkington]

So with that...I am not happy with my rogue because of sneak attack. When it's working its great dps but when I am not getting the sneak attack bonus...I feel like I am just useless on the dps. I either have yellow numbers all day or just immune all over the place. But with LD and sneak attack working its amazing.

Before changing builds, try these things.

1. Use deception/improved deception and/or blinding gear so that you are getting SA damage as often as possible. Blinding is usually only on weapons, but you can also cause it using sleet storm scrolls or glitterdust traps.

2. Make sure your build has plenty of fortification bypass from opportunist, precision, grim precision, armour-piercing gear, etc.

If you didn't have these two things covered already, you may find addressing them really improves your character's effectiveness in those situations where it's not doing well now. Another thing to try, if you haven't already, is using a GXB instead of a repeater and running in FoTW.

Thanks.