Mass hold monster

[Tebaco]

Is there any particular reason why warlock have this spell as level6 and sorcerers/wizards as level9 ?
So that meantime warlock at that level can crowd control everything with Evard's Black Tentacles.
Sorcerer/wizard struggle with several imune messages on several mobs and also must wait more levels to gain mass hold monster?

Do devs plan changing this or just wish to players playing only warlocks?

[Mr_Helmet]

Do devs . . . players playing only warlocks?

Somebody gets it!

[Alfhild]

Is there any particular reason why warlock have this spell as level6 and sorcerers/wizards as level9 ?
So that meantime warlock at that level can crowd control everything with Evard's Black Tentacles.
Sorcerer/wizard struggle with several imune messages on several mobs and also must wait more levels to gain mass hold monster?

Do devs plan changing this or just wish to players playing only warlocks?

I agree! Change it the Warlock spell to L9 so they can get an extra +3 DC! That'll teach those OP Locks!

[Tebaco]

I agree! Change it the Warlock spell to L9 so they can get an extra +3 DC! That'll teach those OP Locks!

nope. just remove easy enough.
Or keep it as it is so sorc can feel like rabbit next to bull.

[doubledge]

Warlocks have the same staggered spell progression as Artificers, namely, they only go up to spell level 6.

Unlike artificers, however, they've got a great selection from the arcane trees.

Either they need to buff artificers up to that level, because they need to invest the same amount, or they need to remove some of the more overpowered spells from the warlock.


However, the warlock spells are by far the weakest part of the class: mass hold is really one of the few spells that are any good.

Finger of death? You'll never see a necromancer warlock

Trap the soul? Thematic, and blocked by deathblock now.

WOTB? See FOD.

[AbyssalMage]

However, the warlock spells are by far the weakest part of the class: mass hold is really one of the few spells that are any good.

Finger of death? You'll never see a necromancer warlock

Trap the soul? Thematic, and blocked by deathblock now.

WOTB? See FOD.
I would argue that the spells round out the class.

Your observation about their "offensive" spells though is "on-point."

[Satyriasys]

Warlocks could have no spells and 10hp and still be grossly op. They need a lot of work before they are realistically balanced.

[Tebaco]

Warlocks could have no spells and 10hp and still be grossly op.

is this irony or just nonsence?

[Enoach]

The issue here is there is a miss understanding of Spell Level and Character Level

Warlocks get their first 6th Level Spell at Level 16 and Level 18 get their 2nd

Wizard gets their first two 9th Level Spells at Level 17 and by 20 can have 5 Level 9 spells

Sorcerer gets their first 9th Level Spell as Level 18 and by 20 can have 3 level 9 Spells


Now there as you can see in theory Warlock has this spell 1 level before a wizard and 2 levels before a warlock, but in exchange for this it is also 3 DC under the Wizard and Sorcerer.

Classes like Artificer, Bard and Warlock only have 6 Spell Levels and will get some spells that are from higher spell levels of other casters, but they do so with a DC disadvantage.

[CaptainPurge]

(since I'm here)
hahahaha

[Sam-u-r-eye]

The issue here is there is a miss understanding of Spell Level and Character Level

Warlocks get their first 6th Level Spell at Level 16 and Level 18 get their 2nd

Wizard gets their first two 9th Level Spells at Level 17 and by 20 can have 5 Level 9 spells

Sorcerer gets their first 9th Level Spell as Level 18 and by 20 can have 3 level 9 Spells


Now there as you can see in theory Warlock has this spell 1 level before a wizard and 2 levels before a warlock, but in exchange for this it is also 3 DC under the Wizard and Sorcerer.

Classes like Artificer, Bard and Warlock only have 6 Spell Levels and will get some spells that are from higher spell levels of other casters, but they do so with a DC disadvantage.

+1

[Sam-u-r-eye]

However, the warlock spells are by far the [color=red]strongest[/red] part of the class: mass hold is really one of the few spells that are any good.

Finger of death? You'll never see a necromancer warlock

Trap the soul? Thematic, and blocked by deathblock now.

WOTB? See FOD.

ftfy

Warlocks are OP dc casters. A proper warlock is either: a. tank, b. blaster, c. DC caster

The most OP version of that is DC caster for a variety of reasons.

Warlock DC casters were actually nerfed after reaper testing.

EITHER WAY, we should be encouraging build diversity, not making it more linear.

[Odysseus2011]

Finger of death? You'll never see a necromancer warlock
WOTB? See FOD.

I know a necromancer DC warlock. I run reaper 10 with a necromancer DC warlock. He's actually pretty good and well rounded, it gives our group a reliable alternative for support and killing mobs.

[noinfo]

Warlocks have the same staggered spell progression as Artificers, namely, they only go up to spell level 6.

Unlike artificers, however, they've got a great selection from the arcane trees.

Either they need to buff artificers up to that level, because they need to invest the same amount, or they need to remove some of the more overpowered spells from the warlock.


However, the warlock spells are by far the weakest part of the class: mass hold is really one of the few spells that are any good.

Finger of death? You'll never see a necromancer warlock

Trap the soul? Thematic, and blocked by deathblock now.

WOTB? See FOD.

DC locks are only rare because
1. DC builds only recently become viable/strong in hard content
2. Gearing and building requires far more effort to have effect
3. Most people only see warlocks as blast or burst and only build that way

DC locks are very strong and in higher level reapers far more effective than other locks (IMO)

Yes artis need significant love
I would suggest caster druids need a bit too and melee vs suitability vs red named in higher level reaper

Evards should also be available to other casters too since it was originally a wizard spell, though we need greater spell choice for all caster classes.

[Daine]

Evards should also be available to other casters too since it was originally a wizard spell, though we need greater spell choice for all caster classes.

Let the Warlocks keep their Evard's, give wizzies Bigby's Crushing Hand!

[Enoach]

Let the Warlocks keep their Evard's, give wizzies Bigby's Crushing Hand!

I would be ok with getting the Bigby's Hand line of spells :).

[HastyPudding]

Speaking as an enchantment DC warlock (although not right now, I'm racial tring) we're not overpowered, by any means. Wizards and especially bards can get a higher enchantment DC, and easier spell penetration. And, like all DC casters, you have to sacrifice everything else for DC's to become viable. My Warlock only had around 970ish HP at level 30, with not a single AP spent in the ES tree: everything was tied up in scholar and souleater (with some in drow racial tree for charisma and the +1 to enchantment). And yes, mass hold is one of the few warlock spells worth having.

If you know me you probably saw this coming, but here goes, anyway: you want overpowered? Look at all of these 1,001 warlocks with their shiny little auras around their feet, 2k extra HP on a tiny cooldown for a minuscule sp cost, almost as much PRR/MRR as a fighter/paladin defender, and pretty decent damage. All they do is run into rooms, gather up some mobs, and spam two buttons.

It's not that warlocks are blatantly OP, it's just they're easy to build and very easy to play. I'll say it, again, because I've said it a hundred times, already: eldritch blast should have never been an auto-attack, it should have been a no-cost, 4 second cooldown, ray-like SLA that scaled with warlock level with various shape/essence options. It would have been much easier to balance and manage.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Warlocks make great DC casters, so long as you love drinking SP potions.

[Satyriasys]

is this irony or just nonsence?

About as nonsense as you soloing reaper 10 on your broken ass toon. You are not that great a player, you have no concept of teamwork or strategy. Your builds are cookie cutter fotm cheese. Having to admit warlocks are absurdly over the top ridiculous would also mean admitting you're just cheesing the game and not as great as you think you are.

[Tebaco]

About as nonsense as you soloing reaper 10 on your broken ass toon. You are not that great a player, you have no concept of teamwork or strategy. Your builds are cookie cutter fotm cheese. Having to admit warlocks are absurdly over the top ridiculous would also mean admitting you're just cheesing the game and not as great as you think you are.

I was pointing at statement that it will work also with 10hp. I doubt that. 10 hp is literary death.

[Ulfo]

Warlocks make great DC casters, so long as you love drinking SP potions.

Just play reaper instead elite, and you almost don't need much... ;)