When do you get to spend racial PL AP?

[EllisDee37]

Let's say I'm maxed out with 30 racial past lives for +10 AP. When do I get to spend those? Can I spend 10 AP in my racial tree immediately at creation while still level 1?

[SpartanKiller13]

Let's say I'm maxed out with 30 racial past lives for +10 AP. When do I get to spend those? Can I spend 10 AP in my racial tree immediately at creation while still level 1?

I haven't seen any dev posts about it, but that seems like the most reasonable solution. PL's are front-loaded as far as benefits go (EPL scaling aside) and I can't see a reason to spend development time to have them scale at 1/level or something.

Hopefully will bring a lot of chest blessers to DDO.

[EllisDee37]

I'll go with that theory.

U35 looks to be going live tomorrow, and for some reason it never occurred to me to include the extra racial AP in my character builder until minutes before I posted this thread. So it looks like I've got more work to do than I was expecting.

[MistaMagic]

There is a post on it and yes at level 1 you can spend your 10 points. Int, dex etc are also granted at level1 BUT do NOT count towards feats so be careful

[Silinrul]

The bonuses from Racial Past Life Feats are granted at level 1.



Attribute bonuses from racial past life feats do not impact your ability to qualify for feat prerequisites or your skill point pool.

Here's the quote.

[DaggomaticDwarf]

I'll go with that theory.

U35 looks to be going live tomorrow, and for some reason it never occurred to me to include the extra racial AP in my character builder until minutes before I posted this thread. So it looks like I've got more work to do than I was expecting.

I expect nothing but awesomeness from you.

[Whitering]

There is a post on it and yes at level 1 you can spend your 10 points. Int, dex etc are also granted at level1 BUT do NOT count towards feats so be careful

Well, they are feats, does completionist count that way? I doubt it (I don't have it yet).

[Qhualor]

The bonuses from Racial Past Life Feats are granted at level 1.



Attribute bonuses from racial past life feats do not impact your ability to qualify for feat prerequisites or your skill point pool.

I guess I missed this response and would like a better understanding as to why not? all this is going to do is cause confusion for the players. is this only at creation or do they impact feats, skills, etc at level 2 or higher? the coding for this must be similar to how equipping stat gear has no affect with feats, skill points, etc when you go to the trainer to level. that would mean the racial stat points is only good for modifiers which makes certain racial past lives only attractive if you want to grind out for the 10 racial AP.

[dancing_hawktopus]

Wait so Str will increase carrying capacity, Dex will increase Reflex, Con will increase HP and Fort, Wis will increase Will, Cha will increase UMD marginally, but Int *will not increase your skill pool*? What is the logic of frontloading all 10 AP into level 1 but then having Int not fuel skill points, if it's going into level 1 anyway? That seems bizarre and makes Int especially weak when I had hoped it would be the most useful and planned on actually farming those Int lives. Kinda silly. Because having a tiny bit more robust skills is OP but 14 AP at level 1 isn't?

[kmoustakas]

Wait so Str will increase carrying capacity, Dex will increase Reflex, Con will increase HP and Fort, Wis will increase Will, Cha will increase UMD marginally, but Int *will not increase your skill pool*? What is the logic of frontloading all 10 AP into level 1 but then having Int not fuel skill points, if it's going into level 1 anyway? That seems bizarre and makes Int especially weak when I had hoped it would be the most useful and planned on actually farming those Int lives. Kinda silly. Because having a tiny bit more robust skills is OP but 14 AP at level 1 isn't?

It's exactly the same as completionist feat works.

[PermaBanned]

I guess I missed this response and would like a better understanding as to why not? all this is going to do is cause confusion for the players. is this only at creation or do they impact feats, skills, etc at level 2 or higher?The players figured out a long time ago that Initial Build + Tomes + Level Ups are the only factors that affect Skill Points and Feat Prerequisites. Since that hasn't changed, I expect only limited confusion - such as from the folks who are also confused by Bulls Strength not doing anything if they have a +4 or better Str item equipped; or the players who are confused by Quicken preventing Concentration Checks for Spells but not Scrolls, and not effecting Spell Casting Animation/Speed. The rest of us should be pretty OK here, or at least not confused for too long ;)


the coding for this must be similar to how equipping stat gear has no affect with feats, skill points, etc when you go to the trainer to level. that would mean the racial stat points is only good for modifiers which makes certain racial past lives only attractive if you want to grind out for the 10 racial AP.Personally, I suspect the coding to be more similar to the Completionist Feat than Gear - but then I know squat about coding so maybe those two things are coded similar already?

[PermaBanned]

Wait so Str will increase carrying capacity, Dex will increase Reflex, Con will increase HP and Fort, Wis will increase Will, Cha will increase UMD marginally, but Int *will not increase your skill pool*? What is the logic of frontloading all 10 AP into level 1 but then having Int not fuel skill points, if it's going into level 1 anyway? That seems bizarre and makes Int especially weak when I had hoped it would be the most useful and planned on actually farming those Int lives. Kinda silly. Because having a tiny bit more robust skills is OP but 14 AP at level 1 isn't?We have 14 non-iconic races? I must be missing some as I only counted 10. The current set up suggests to me they plan to introduce two more non-Iconic races (like Dragonborn, though they may have Iconic versions like Gnome/Deep Gnome). As a Dev bonus, those two races can be craptastic and folks will buy them just for the extra +1s to Int & Wis and 2 more Racial AP.

[EllisDee37]

Personally, I suspect the coding to be more similar to the Completionist Feat than Gear - but then I know squat about coding so maybe those two things are coded similar already?It's coded as a feat, like all past lives. A dev at one point actually said (in an unrelated conversation) something to the effect of "we'd probably do [that thing] as a feat bonus because feats are well understood." IIRC, the "well understood" bit referenced both development knowledge and also player familiarity.

All past life bonuses (heroic, epic, iconic, passive, active) are feats. There is no reason to think racial past life bonuses will be any different.

[Holleyz]

Racial past lives. Now will this interrupt me trying to get completionist in the classes? I can't get an answer from Sam1313 as he never speaks about anything the players council is working on. I am 3 classes away from getting completionist now with racial past lives does this mean I have to grind out the last 3 classes and THEN get all the racial past lives to obtain completionist??? so confused.

[EllisDee37]

I am 3 classes away from getting completionist now with racial past lives does this mean I have to grind out the last 3 classes and THEN get all the racial past lives to obtain completionist??? so confused.You have to first grind out your last 3 classes to get completionist.

After that, if you want to add some racial past lives you can if you want to. But it's not required for completionist.

[SirValentine]

It's coded as a feat, like all past lives. A dev at one point actually said (in an unrelated conversation) something to the effect of "we'd probably do [that thing] as a feat bonus because feats are well understood." IIRC, the "well understood" bit referenced both development knowledge and also player familiarity.

All past life bonuses (heroic, epic, iconic, passive, active) are feats. There is no reason to think racial past life bonuses will be any different.

It's more complicated than that, though. Inherent bonuses, from tomes, are also feats. They count for pre-reqs, and, for Int, for skill points.

Racial PL bonuses being auto-granted at level 1, are more similar to inherent feats than they are to actually spending a feat slot to take Completionist.

To be honest, the 2 dev "clarification" posts on the issue left me more confused. Not really worried about it, though. Shortly, someone will have actually tried it, and then we'll know.

[bartharok]

We have 14 non-iconic races? I must be missing some as I only counted 10. The current set up suggests to me they plan to introduce two more non-Iconic races (like Dragonborn, though they may have Iconic versions like Gnome/Deep Gnome). As a Dev bonus, those two races can be craptastic and folks will buy them just for the extra +1s to Int & Wis and 2 more Racial AP.

I think he means the 10 from pls + the 4 you can earn before lvl 2.

[Qhualor]

The players figured out a long time ago that Initial Build + Tomes + Level Ups are the only factors that affect Skill Points and Feat Prerequisites. Since that hasn't changed, I expect only limited confusion - such as from the folks who are also confused by Bulls Strength not doing anything if they have a +4 or better Str item equipped; or the players who are confused by Quicken preventing Concentration Checks for Spells but not Scrolls, and not effecting Spell Casting Animation/Speed. The rest of us should be pretty OK here, or at least not confused for too long ;)

I can see how it could easily be confused though. you get the drow and gnome past lives for +2 Int and assume that at level 1 you would get +1 more skill point, as an example. until now I had always assumed it would work that way and now more confused as to why not. this actually only makes my desire for specific racial past lives even easier rather than wanting to do all of them. like I had planned on doing only WF, dwarf, horc and human on my barb. if I did anymore racials it would be just a long grind for the remaining AP since the rest of the stat bonuses are unimportant to her.

[Chai]

Wait so Str will increase carrying capacity, Dex will increase Reflex, Con will increase HP and Fort, Wis will increase Will, Cha will increase UMD marginally, but Int *will not increase your skill pool*? What is the logic of frontloading all 10 AP into level 1 but then having Int not fuel skill points, if it's going into level 1 anyway? That seems bizarre and makes Int especially weak when I had hoped it would be the most useful and planned on actually farming those Int lives. Kinda silly. Because having a tiny bit more robust skills is OP but 14 AP at level 1 isn't?

Its coded to follow the 3.5 rule. Only natural int increases skill pool. character creation + level ups + tomes. Same for qualifying for feats. Dex from racial TR for instance would not count toward qualifying for IPS or TWF.

[Redgob]

Its coded to follow the 3.5 rule. Only natural int increases skill pool. character creation + level ups + tomes. Same for qualifying for feats. Dex from racial TR for instance would not count toward qualifying for IPS or TWF.
3.5 rule? Really? You mean there's racial reincarnation in 3.5? The main reason why completionist and other feats do not count is because you can swap them out. Abilities from racial reincarnation cannot be swapped out or removed. They should have been added as special feats just like tomes.

[bartharok]

3.5 rule? Really? You mean there's racial reincarnation in 3.5? The main reason why completionist and other feats do not count is because you can swap them out. Abilities from racial reincarnation cannot be swapped out or removed. They should have been added as special feats just like tomes.

3.5 lists which do. Logically it would mean that others dont.

[Redgob]

3.5 lists which do. Logically it would mean that others dont.
Nah. DDO is not DND. And if you want it "logically" then you get effects from reincarnation when you are reborn. That means they are natural just like your initial attributes or your race bonuses.

[bartharok]

Nah. DDO is not DND. And if you want it "logically" then you get effects from reincarnation when you are reborn. That means they are natural just like your initial attributes or your race bonuses.

DDO isnt D&D, true. But they are originally based on it. Thus they still use part of the rules, and have decided to thus far not add more bonuses to the list of things that affect your base stat. It is logical that, since they still use the original list, rpl bonuses do not give you skillpoints.

[Qhualor]

/shrug

I would think past lives are natural.

[bartharok]

/shrug

I would think past lives are natural.

I would rather say they are supernatural

[scipiojedi]

I would say they are unnatural

[Simard]

Extra boost from a past life that's au naturel.

[EllisDee37]

Inherent bonuses, from tomes, are also feats. They count for pre-reqs, and, for Int, for skill points.
The main reason why completionist and other feats do not count is because you can swap them out. Abilities from racial reincarnation cannot be swapped out or removed. They should have been added as special feats just like tomes.It never even crossed my mind that racial past life bonuses would count for skill points and feat prereqs, and I still don't think they should, but I have to concede that you guys make some valid points.