Banking Levels

[Trugaard]

I don't understand why we have a limit on banking levels. I have passed up quests because I level too fast. This sounds like first world problems but I wish we could bank as many levels as we want. I know they have the mechanic (receiving massive XP at once) just wish there was a viable reason I could accept.

[Jasparion]

I don't understand why we have a limit on banking levels. I have passed up quests because I level too fast. This sounds like first world problems but I wish we could bank as many levels as we want. I know they have the mechanic (receiving massive XP at once) just wish there was a viable reason I could accept.

To what purpose?

Sit at XP cap and run those dungeons in your level range if you want. Or run them at higher level if you want. I dont see a problem here.

[Trugaard]

There are tons of reasons why. Playing at level or below mitigates the XP penalty. Playing at level is much more fun than being way overpowered and favor farming. There are other reasons but those are my main reasons. This question wasn't really a complaint just interrogatory.

[laesgirith]

It's probably just an old code made from the pen and paper rules. it goes something along the lines of:
"A character can only receive as much experience that would grant them two levels, less one experience point."

The point of it was to develop characters a bit more before making them more powerful, as well as to hopefully curb the DM's enthusiasm... As for its application in ddo, i'm pretty sure it has been around as long as the game has been up (not 100% sure), but it basically slows the leveling process, which can make sense in pen and paper games, but doesnt really carry over into MMOs... And if they were to change this mechanic now, i'm sure that with DDO's spaghetti coding, that 8 other things would get messed up...

hope this shed some light on it...

[psykopeta]

Maybe i'm wrong, butnit's made to incentivate players purchasing new packs

Just imagine you can farm any quest and bank its xp w/o limits, you could skip entire lvls w/o having nornplaying certain packs

Ofc that does not affects vips or players who have all the packs, but in the era when it was implemented it made sense(remember now ransack fades with time, so it would be much easier to cap with f2p quests)

[Trugaard]

It's probably just an old code made from the pen and paper rules. it goes something along the lines of:
"A character can only receive as much experience that would grant them two levels, less one experience point."

The point of it was to develop characters a bit more before making them more powerful, as well as to hopefully curb the DM's enthusiasm... As for its application in ddo, i'm pretty sure it has been around as long as the game has been up (not 100% sure), but it basically slows the leveling process, which can make sense in pen and paper games, but doesnt really carry over into MMOs... And if they were to change this mechanic now, i'm sure that with DDO's spaghetti coding, that 8 other things would get messed up...

hope this shed some light on it...

Best answer so far. Honestly tho its so easy to level legit I would only level when I've completed all elites in my level range. Yer right on the 8 more problems. I just hate the Otto boxes the store sells. Its biggest pay to win bull I've ever seen. I'm hoping SSG never sells them again. They seem like purists. Can't wait for Ravenloft

[wonkey]

My impression is that the intention is that challenge is SUPPOSED to increase as you increase in level.

Therefore, banking too much xp would be, in a sense, cheating. For example, to get to level 8 from 7, you are supposed to be running level-7 challenge quests (or close, at least). But if you could bank all the xp you needed at 2, and then level to 8, the challenge you faced to obtain that xp would be far lower than intended.

In general, it encourages running more content, rather than finding some optimal few quests, and running them to death.

It's not preventing you from doing all the quests. Simply run them double-blued, and don't get xp for them. I've seen people do that all the time.

[TDarkchylde]

Yeah, let's let people bank infinite levels. I'll just be right here running Shadow Crypt to Heroic cap.

For those who didn't detect the sarcasm, no, just no. Got to move up eventually and run new stuff.

[Trugaard]

Yeah, let's let people bank infinite levels. I'll just be right here running Shadow Crypt to Heroic cap.

For those who didn't detect the sarcasm, no, just no. Got to move up eventually and run new stuff.

I would argue that would be slower than actually running it legit. I guess I don't really care what people run to level. Ive been able to level a TR very quickly just by running down my adventure compendium and hitting everything one by one. I think I only repeated the fire caves and that was because I was in a group that wanted to do it. Everything else just a single run on elite or reaper and on to the next. If some turd wants to run the same quest over and over, I doubt they would save much time and it certainly wouldn't be fun.

Also did the word infinite take on a different meaning?

[Xanthrawl]

This has long been a pet peeve of mine. Even on a 3+ life character, running once on elite/reaper with full BB is enough to hard cap you. This is problematic if you want to use XP pots for Reaper XP, as you will hard cap your character XP making you feel like you're not getting the most bang for your buck on your pots. (You want to run everything possible on Reaper for 1st time bonus.) This leads to a decreased desire to buy pots and/or play the game.

Letting us go beyond the hard cap is a good solution. Sure, some people will farm big XP quests to level up. Spoiler alert, they do that now. With the repeat penalty, I don't think this is really an issue to be concerned about.

[Impaqt]

so let me get this straight...

You get to much experience. So much in fact that you cannot run all the quests before you "need" to level.

but you dont want to take the level and run them a little higher because you with get as much XP out of them if you level? XP that you cant use anyway...

yeah. total first world problem. Especially since we have reaper now if you're really worried about "challenge".

[Xanthrawl]

so let me get this straight...

You get to much experience. So much in fact that you cannot run all the quests before you "need" to level.

but you dont want to take the level and run them a little higher because you with get as much XP out of them if you level? XP that you cant use anyway...

yeah. total first world problem. Especially since we have reaper now if you're really worried about "challenge".


I think you're either missing the point, or don't understand how Reaper XP is calculated. If I were to level up (because my character XP is hard capped) I will take a significant hit to Reaper XP for the lower level quests I have not had the opportunity to run yet.

If I choose to stay hard capped and gain no character XP and run my remaining quests on Reaper, I feel like I am not using my time and resources (XP pots) efficiently.

[AbyssalMage]

Yeah, let's let people bank infinite levels. I'll just be right here running Shadow Crypt to Heroic cap.

For those who didn't detect the sarcasm, no, just no. Got to move up eventually and run new stuff.
To the OP, this^.

People (ok, not everyone) will farm the best XP/Min Adventures. There are dead spots in the leveling range. Then there are some sweet spots. Necro I - IV and a few others are just insane XP/Min which then causes the hamster wheel of "Why they don't adjust other adventures so things are more 'equal' argument" which I fall into. I would gladly bank multiple levels to avoid dead spots where adventures provide horrible xp/min ratios.

So yes OP, they do this to prevent people like me who would gladly avoid certain level ranges in heroics.

[Xanthrawl]

To the OP, this^.

People (ok, not everyone) will farm the best XP/Min Adventures. There are dead spots in the leveling range. Then there are some sweet spots. Necro I - IV and a few others are just insane XP/Min which then causes the hamster wheel of "Why they don't adjust other adventures so things are more 'equal' argument" which I fall into. I would gladly bank multiple levels to avoid dead spots where adventures provide horrible xp/min ratios.

So yes OP, they do this to prevent people like me who would gladly avoid certain level ranges in heroics.

I think Reaper sorted most of this out. Most people will want to "one and done" most content for maximum Reaper returns. I think the people that would farm like this are in the extreme minority.

[Impaqt]

I think you're either missing the point, or don't understand how Reaper XP is calculated. If I were to level up (because my character XP is hard capped) I will take a significant hit to Reaper XP for the lower level quests I have not had the opportunity to run yet.

If I choose to stay hard capped and gain no character XP and run my remaining quests on Reaper, I feel like I am not using my time and resources (XP pots) efficiently.

Or maybe you mentioned nothing about reaper XP in the op.

[Enoach]

I don't understand why we have a limit on banking levels. I have passed up quests because I level too fast. This sounds like first world problems but I wish we could bank as many levels as we want. I know they have the mechanic (receiving massive XP at once) just wish there was a viable reason I could accept.


It's probably just an old code made from the pen and paper rules. it goes something along the lines of:
"A character can only receive as much experience that would grant them two levels, less one experience point."

The point of it was to develop characters a bit more before making them more powerful, as well as to hopefully curb the DM's enthusiasm... As for its application in ddo, i'm pretty sure it has been around as long as the game has been up (not 100% sure), but it basically slows the leveling process, which can make sense in pen and paper games, but doesnt really carry over into MMOs... And if they were to change this mechanic now, i'm sure that with DDO's spaghetti coding, that 8 other things would get messed up...

hope this shed some light on it...

This is most likely just as laesgirith points out, one of the rules that comes from the legacy system DDO uses as a base. There was also another reason at least in the 3.5 and lower versions where there were activities the player could participate in that required spending XP. From casting a spell to even crafting an item.

Now running quests once-n-done using the Elite system running quests where your level equals the level of Elite on that quest for the most part allows a 3rd life without lots of XP bonuses such as what comes from high end XP Potions to just about do every quest once. Some levels you won't be able to fit it all in, and some levels are a bit dry, but on average it just about works out.

With the change in Reaper with more people now running the Reaper Mode of the quest when their character's level equals the Normal Level of the quest will shift the levels that have more and less (I see a shift of 2 downward). However, I'm not sure it will necessarily be bad, but it will potentially have players running different content some of which they may be less familiar with such as the level 18, 19 and Heroic 20 level quests. Many of these quests are currently skipped because players out level them running level 16 Quests while holding level 18.

But I do agree running a quest when in the XP range with little to no penalty is much more fun then running it over level. I've gotten to the point that if I miss Kobold Assault or Gladeswatch Defense I pull out a hireling and my gold seal hirelings (of which I now have one more of) and pet if I have one, set them all to attack and watch youtube or catch-up on facebook :) or even eat a meal.

[Xanthrawl]

Or maybe you mentioned nothing about reaper XP in the op.

Or maybe I'm not the OP. I just agree that this is an issue and tried to point out a different point of view to nay-sayers.

[Blastyswa]

I don't understand why we have a limit on banking levels. I have passed up quests because I level too fast. This sounds like first world problems but I wish we could bank as many levels as we want. I know they have the mechanic (receiving massive XP at once) just wish there was a viable reason I could accept.

Agreed.

[Impaqt]

Or maybe I'm not the OP. I just agree that this is an issue and tried to point out a different point of view to nay-sayers.

Ah. ok. then I probably wasnt referencing anything you said in my response. Maybe you should start a thread complaining about reaper XP.

[Chai]

Another issue that would be solved if the PCs were scaled, instead of the mobs.

[Cantor]

Yeah, let's let people bank infinite levels. I'll just be right here running Shadow Crypt to Heroic cap.

For those who didn't detect the sarcasm, no, just no. Got to move up eventually and run new stuff.

Yup. Just gives bots all the heroic pasts now. Unless they actually fixed optional ransacking.

[CSQ]

I don't understand why we have a limit on banking levels. I have passed up quests because I level too fast. This sounds like first world problems but I wish we could bank as many levels as we want. I know they have the mechanic (receiving massive XP at once) just wish there was a viable reason I could accept.

I don't see any practical benefit to the XP cap. Granted, you can ostensibly earn more exp and bank tons of levels if it's removed (though it would be hard to level in one go from 1 to 20 or anything crazy like that), but I don't think that's necessarily a *bad* thing, just something that is a little unusual. Without the XP cap, you could encourage grouping (how many groups have broken because "I'm about to hit hard cap" or something like that) or guildies working together ("I'll stick at level X to help you with this content"). I think there are more positives of getting rid of the level cap, especially for people who want to farm favor (or Reaper exp first completes) than negatives, so ultimately I think this is a good idea. Now, I won't quit DDO if it doesn't happen, but how hard can it be to make the change, should people want it?

For people who support the cap, let me ask if you have a reason other than "Balance" (with no further explanation or argumentation) or "Because 3.5 did it that way" (DDO is 100% faithful to 3.5, right guys?). I'm not being snarky (except about those two), I really would appreciate other arguments, because that way I can see if there's something I haven't thought about. I'm not sure I really appreciate "People are just going to farm one quest" because that's really a personal decision; if you want to play the game like a chore that's fine, but it's not really the point. However, if you can think of a reason why it would be a big issue, let me know.

[VinceWhirlwind]

Yeah, let's let people bank infinite levels. I'll just be right here running Shadow Crypt to Heroic cap.

For those who didn't detect the sarcasm, no, just no. Got to move up eventually and run new stuff.

Agreed. There's no way the game would be improved by allowing people to bank crazy amounts of XP.

[AbyssalMage]

<Snip>

I've gotten to the point that if I miss Kobold Assault or Gladeswatch Defense I pull out a hireling and my gold seal hirelings (of which I now have one more of) and pet if I have one, set them all to attack and watch youtube or catch-up on facebook :) or even eat a meal.
How dare you eat food and gain nourishment. Next thing you will be telling us is you go outside!!! Blasphemy.

[Xanthrawl]

Ah. ok. then I probably wasnt referencing anything you said in my response. Maybe you should start a thread complaining about reaper XP.

That's asinine. Why would I start a separate thread to complain when there is a thread right here with a concept that would solve my issue? Complaining without offering a solution is not productive.

Is there a better solution to my problem? Possibly. Am I arrogant enough to believe that I will be the one to solve it? No.

Ultimately there are a few things that need to happen. People have to voice that they perceive an issue. People brainstorm solutions. Devs decide on a solution, while balancing a ton of other factors (ease of implementation, future systems/updates, etc.)

I have seen a couple other posts, and have talked to many others that agree. If you do not see the issue, you can simply say so. However you will not convince me that there is no issue here. Better yet, you can help think up an alternative solution and be constructive.

[Blastyswa]

Yeah, let's let people bank infinite levels. I'll just be right here running Shadow Crypt to Heroic cap.

For those who didn't detect the sarcasm, no, just no. Got to move up eventually and run new stuff.

Lets see, if you run Shadow Crypt starting at 800,000 xp (This would be just starting level 11) you'll need 3 million experience to level. If you have a sovereign potion running, and go reaper your first run, you'll probably get around 70k experience (All these numbers count optionals). Pretending that you have 5 people flagged that use their flags separately, you can then do an elite for 40k, a hard for around 30k, and a normal for around 25k, for a total of 165k experience within probably 20 minutes. Then your last flagged person opens up elite again (Since rerunning it on reaper wouldn't add additional experience, or I guess you could run it on reaper for the reaper xp) and you start completing 3 minute runs. Your second elite run then grants 25k; with ransack, your third grants 20k, your fourth 15k, your 5th 10k, and your 6th down to around 5k when fully ransacked. At this point, you've made another 75k experience, which combined with your starting xp and your first time runs xp brings you up to a total of 1,040,000 xp, putting you into level 12; congratulations, you've gotten an entire level from shadow crypt, using a sovereign potion and extreme zerging, within (3 minutes per run, 9 runs, some time spent grabbing window and getting peoples flags) 30 minutes.

Now you start rerunning elite, making around 5k/3 minutes. that's 1,666 xp per minute, or 99,960 xp per hour. To get the remaining 2,760,000 experience you need for capping, that's 28 hours of in quest time. In terms of runs, you'd have to run shadow crypt about 552 times. You could of course space out runs to bypass the ransack penalty, but then it'd be over the course of months. Contrast that with running every single heroic quest level 10 through 16 (You'd cap by the time you finished LoD/Wheloon/Vale) since your initial shadow crypt runs before ransacking gave you level 12, and you're looking at a total of 265 quests. That even includes the ones that are unlikely to be ran, like Restless Isles (including raids), and in actuality you'd probably be running around 250 quests. I'd personally much prefer running 250 different quests than running Shadow Crypt 552 times.