Necrolock, 90DC, 10skull tested

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Necro abilites bypassing deathward are OP atm.
This is a version of Soul-Eater Capstone + Hurl.
Was working even decently in 10sk Tempest's Spine and 10sk TOEE. We got wiped on bosses in both places though.

http://imgur.com/FbFbtpu.png

gear

used to be a pure sorc, hence some of the lightning stuff

Helm: Panosophic Circlet

Goggles: LGS, dominion set
Cloak: LGS, domnion set
Boots: LGS, negative escalation ethereal (SP and spellcraft), swap to FOM boots.

Belt: Slavers Crafted
Wrists: Slavers Crafted
Neck: Slavers Crafted

Slavers Crafted + orb + ring for 5piece
prefix1, sheltering 44
prefix2, charisma 17
prefix3, constitution 17
suffix1, kinetic lore 27
suffix2, lightning lore 27
suffix3,
greenextra1,
greenextra2, spell focus mastery 6
greenextra3,
yellowextra1, quality sheltering 11
yellowextra2, quality charisma 4
yellowextra3, quality constitution 4
aug1: vitality
aug2:
aug3: insightful con 2

ring1: spinneret
ring2: Cannith Crafted, false life, wizardry, insightful charisma 7

gloves: magnetism, healing amp, insightful magnetism,
armor: light armor of the celestial sage
trinket: eLitany

main-hand: vacuum
orb: mutilator

~~
~~

feats...
standard stuff + ruins so not max dcs

[Livmo]

Nice DC on the FoD!

Lots of other nice stats as well.

[Morroiel]

While I realize, this is a rather finally tuned build for the particular player that posted it (I have a lot of respect for sam).

However, I feel I owe the players looking upon this build for inspiration/help/tips etc. enough to put them straight. While this build will perform adequately well in reaper 10 in a very particular subset of quests it will struggle in others, for instance I feel the OP has without a doubt accidentally lied or is simply mistaken about the build performing well in 10 skull TS given the twists he posted. A 59 spell pen will NOT perform "very well" on LE TS drow let alone reaper 10 LE TS drow. Any dc caster worth his salt will agree with this. The reason why I'm calling the OP out on it rather than chalking it up to just simply switching up the twists is because it fundamentally changes the build. When you start having to take magister spell pen, draconic spell pen, fatesinger spell pen, and either necro magister twist or two charisma twists - you get into an issue where the build becomes fundamentally different and changed. Further, the fact that the feats aren't shown is extremely misleading.

Projected Feats:
1)quicken
3)completionist
6)max
9)Heighten
12)Spell Foc Necro
15)Spell Pen
18)G Spell Pen
21)Epic Spell Pen
24)Embolden
27)Ruin
30)GRuin

Which means you are down enlarge, spell focus g necro, pl wizard (for DC). Down empower, intensify, wellspring of power (for dps). I also see you don't take shadows upon you. Shadows upon you + pl wizard active + hurl through hell is a key combo of any true hurler build in end game content. Enlarge is critical as it represents range / safety / ability to prep a pack of mobs / etc.

While your build tries to accomplish dps and dcs at the same time - you are crippling yourself. You CANNOT achieve both at the same time on an endgame focused toon. If you want to pigeonhole yourself to certain quests/raids than by all means go ahead. BUT don't do other players the disservice of doing the same to them by advertising it as a good idea ("plays well").

Lastly if you ignore all of the above, at least do yourself the favor of optimizing your particular build style - energy burst fire IS not a good choice - mobs are typically resistant to fire and in addition your gear is even slotted for electric which is the best option at the moment. Lastly, the enhancements above stricken aren't necessary. Build a vacuum stick if a dps member isn't already spamming it - its faster anyways. Take those 4 points and put them into whatever you want - personally I'd recommend consume sight for deathwarded archers, and dark feeding (blood feast or your will is mine). Though more spellcraft or reduced threat are both options if you want to take a dps approach. Either way, 4 points for a subpar vulnerability stacking ability is stupid at this point. Worst economical use in the game. Also of note a lot of old school reaper quests won't even have melee power/ranged power/spell power attributes to be reduced anyways so the other debuff is largely useless.

P.S. Sorry if this was overly critical - it was meant to be constructive. I've found that with warlock in the past while its been possible to do a damage / DC pseudohybrid by using hurl on a max charisma build simply because of the lack of need to take focus feat/items/twists and spell pen gear/items/twists/etc. It isn't currently possible to do DCs + damage without being mediocre in both. But your definition / build constraints might differ. Again, I have a lot of respect for you as a player, so I hope there's no ill will felt. And if you have some magic way of getting more spell pen that I'm not aware of, please let me know?

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Excellent response Morr. Did we play together when Codex dropped on Lamma? I believe I had a thrower at the time.

I have no issue with polemic. You accurately deduced my feats. You are correct that without being in magister it is not possible to obtain no-fail spell pen; however I'm willing to give up a 10% failure in TS to keep wings. You are perhaps overly polite with someone as lazy as me, but I'll answer your post because of it.

56-60 spell pen breakdown:
20 Caster Level
7 Equipment: Spell Pen
4 Equipment: Insightful Spell Pen
3 Destiny
3 Twist
9 Past Lives
2 Tainted Scholar
2 Feat: Spell Penetration
2 Feat: Greater Spell Penetration
4 21 Feat: Epic Spell Penetration
2 Echoes of the Ancestor swap
2 Gloves of the Arcane Soldier swap


It isn't currently possible to do DCs + damage without being mediocre in both. But your definition / build constraints might differ.

The build was designed for Elite Shroud / Slavers (hence the nukes). I believe you to be slightly off in appraising its DCs to be mediocre. I am a knowledgeable caster and I target a mob's weak saves. Pure Wizards trying to brute force the DCs to kill a Trog Warchief is humorous---when a simple hurl over 20 DCs lower does the trick. I guess that's what I love most about the build.

DCs are like defense. I tell myself that once you have enough you should invest in something else. (E.x., a Wizard should play in Sentinel in LE shroud if they want to play aggressive.)
I chose to invest in DPS, but I agree that I may do the reader a disservice by not noting what should be changed for Reaper (outside of the points you made well).

1. GRUIN + RUIN -> Enlarge + Wizard Active PL
2. Perhaps, Maximize -> Greater Necro focus (Though it approaches a wash.)
3. Eburst -> Shadows upon you
4. Use Staunch from Tainted Scholar Core.
5. Swap Domion-SP set for Mat-OP-HP set after SP runs down 1k points.
6. ?

~

You are being a bit hyperbolic about the Stricken upper cores being awful, given the alternatives---I like the alternatives. In Reaper does the scaling occur via Melee Power? It obviously has use in the newer content anyway. (Or at least I hope. Its terribly hard to see how useful it would be.)
I am using vacuum and slotting insightful CHA on ring.

Cheers I hope this discussion is to someone's benefit.

~SAM

[Morroiel]

I've definitely seen and played with you on lamm before whether that was when codex dropped I don't recall. I almost always check out lamm when preview is up.

Thanks for the reply to my post and for not taking it badly. I'm going to chime in with my opinion/thoughts/comments.

While it is true that you can't achieve no fail spell pen (I believe the target is something like 72 for three barrel cove drow), it is possible to get no fail spell pen for LE TS drow which have a spell pen check of 65, which means you need a 64 spell penetration to make the save 100% of the time.

(pulling from my spreadsheet)
Base Levels: 20
Wiz Pls: 6
Fvs Pls: 3
Item: 7
Ship: 1
Feats: 8 (spell pen, g spell pen, epic spell pen)
Insightful item: 4 (mutilator orb)
draconic spell pen twist: 3
magister spell pen twist: 3
fatesinger magister echoes spell pen twist: 2
exalted angel spell pen: 3
tainted scholar: 2
gauntlets: 2
Total:64

For reference: Twists would be - draconic spell pen, magister spell pen, echoes spell pen, magister:necro

The point is a bit moot. You obviously like your setup so play it how you like it. I'm with the rest of my guild - I HATE seeing blue shields pop up more than anything. First and foremost imo, this is a DC caster build for me - I optimize spell pen -> necro -> enchant -> conj -> hps -> dps.

As to the enhancements above stricken and why I devalue them, its because I specifically tested it (I suggest when lamm pops up you test it for yourself to see how much utility it brings in for instance toee). Its not used in reaper as a mechanic just like its not used in old quests as a mechanic. Its the same reason why negative prr/mrr doesnt actually do anything. Idk again this is just my opinion. Also burning blood for a damage dot isn't half bad if you do want to go the damage route (I take it in heroic leveling sometimes for fun). Though personally I'd still take the spellcraft if you want to do dps route.

[KoobTheProud]

Side question: what is the maximum realistic Charisma score that an unguilded solo Warlock can reach? It always blows my mind when I see numbers in the 90's because I'm pretty sure my effective cap as an unguilded solo player is in the mid 60's to low 70's.

[Morroiel]

Side question: what is the maximum realistic Charisma score that an unguilded solo Warlock can reach? It always blows my mind when I see numbers in the 90's because I'm pretty sure my effective cap as an unguilded solo player is in the mid 60's to low 70's.

Depends on a lot of things. If you are going full cha lock. Low 90s/high 80s should easily be achievable imo. Im not going to give a breakdown because im on mobile atm but will later.

[Tlorrd]

Side question: what is the maximum realistic Charisma score that an unguilded solo Warlock can reach? It always blows my mind when I see numbers in the 90's because I'm pretty sure my effective cap as an unguilded solo player is in the mid 60's to low 70's.

Drow 20 Warlock Cha breakdown

20 base
2 race
6 enhancement
2 Harper
7 tome
7 level up
6 destiny
2 angelic presence
2 ascendance
17 item
7 insightful
4 quality
----
82
2 superior ability pot
2 yugo pot
4 alchemical (cookies or slavers set)
1 globe
2 ship
---
93

Something like that.

[KoobTheProud]

What's the maximum +Cha, +Insightful Cha, +Quality Cha outside of raids? Highest I've seen at this point is 14, 4 and 4 on those.

On the enhancements, I can see getting the two Drow tiers because that's just 6 AP to do that. The Harper 2 takes 12 AP to get both and 7 AP to get 1. Not sure that's doable in any acceptable build alongside the 6 AP required in Drow to get 2.

Epic Destinies looks like 5 from the main destiny and maybe 3 twists for 8 total. Probably more like 5 and 1 given the other twists wanted by most builds so the 6 overall that you posited.

So from my solo perspective I could see:

20 Drow
2 Drow Enhancement (6 AP spent)
6 Class Enhancements (64+ AP spent - assuming a 41+ for capstone giving 2 Cha + 2 Cha in tree, 23+ for2 Cha is in a second tree plus 4th tier Core in that tree)
1 Harper Agent (7AP spent)
7 Tome
7 Level up
6 Destiny
2 Angelic Presence
2 Ascendance
14 Item
4 Insightful
4 Quality
= 75 - which is more than I'd have thought based on numbers I've seen on my characters so far.

If I wanted to go full DC and really push it I could do the 3 twists instead of 1 and get to 77. Maybe I can get a +15 item on a loot bonus day or with a pot or both?

Last question, how realistic is it to craft an Insight bonus to an attribute above +4 without having any raid-only mats? That would be another path to getting close to 80 or so.

[Tlorrd]

What's the maximum +Cha, +Insightful Cha, +Quality Cha outside of raids? Highest I've seen at this point is 14, 4 and 4 on those.

On the enhancements, I can see getting the two Drow tiers because that's just 6 AP to do that. The Harper 2 takes 12 AP to get both and 7 AP to get 1. Not sure that's doable in any acceptable build alongside the 6 AP required in Drow to get 2.

Epic Destinies looks like 5 from the main destiny and maybe 3 twists for 8 total. Probably more like 5 and 1 given the other twists wanted by most builds so the 6 overall that you posited.

So from my solo perspective I could see:

20 Drow
2 Drow Enhancement (6 AP spent)
6 Class Enhancements (64+ AP spent - assuming a 41+ for capstone giving 2 Cha + 2 Cha in tree, 23+ for2 Cha is in a second tree plus 4th tier Core in that tree)
1 Harper Agent (7AP spent)
7 Tome
7 Level up
6 Destiny
2 Angelic Presence
2 Ascendance
14 Item
4 Insightful
4 Quality
= 75 - which is more than I'd have thought based on numbers I've seen on my characters so far.

If I wanted to go full DC and really push it I could do the 3 twists instead of 1 and get to 77. Maybe I can get a +15 item on a loot bonus day or with a pot or both?

Last question, how realistic is it to craft an Insight bonus to an attribute above +4 without having any raid-only mats? That would be another path to getting close to 80 or so.

Cannith Craftable at cap is +15 attribute and +7 insight on same item. Quality has to come from named item or slavers. And slavers can give +17 attribute.

I highly recommend getting levels in cannith crafting. To do min level 34 crafting, you need CC level 300+ ... Easily attainable with essences only and some boosters. No other mats needed until you actually craft an item.

[Mr_Helmet]

Necro abilites bypassing deathward are OP atm.


Just play warlocks, it's what SSG wants you to do.

[JOTMON]

Necro abilites bypassing deathward are OP atm.
This is a version of Soul-Eater Capstone + Hurl.
Was working even decently in 10sk Tempest's Spine and 10sk TOEE. We got wiped on bosses in both places though.



I call BS.
you claim you were reliable with 94 CHA...


I was testing 10 skull with my warlock and while yes some hurls and devour the souls landed it was in no way reliable or even decently reliable.
I was running a near stars aligned Warlock with 102CHA. (no feats used for CHA) but had a bard.

http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r671/JOTMON/ScreenShot00972a_zpshdhqkjcn.jpg~original

Near 3x completionist (missing 2 druid/2bard past lives I did not care about) / 3x iconic completionist / 3x epic completionist.
5 piece slavers fully crafted set, 2 pieces LGS gear (PMO) , 3x cha affirmation stick. rest is ideal best in slot gear to date.

Lamannia self healing was still functional during this testing, not that it mattered much, when I got hit I went splat.
Necro DC 92, Spell Pen 62

[Sam-u-r-eye]

I call BS.
you claim you were reliable with 94 CHA...


I was testing 10 skull with my warlock and while yes some hurls and devour the souls landed it was in no way reliable or even decently reliable.
I was running a near stars aligned Warlock with 102CHA. (no feats used for CHA) but had a bard.


We both experienced the same thing and felt differently about it. For you decent means reliable. For me...

Reliably = 85% of the time
Decently = 30-75% of the time

I had 80% of the kills in any context of reaper, and my comrades include some of the better names on the achievement boards. It honestly felt dirty.

Do you have the footage? I recently deleted mine because I wasn't going to bother uploading. What quest were you running? You are experienced enough that you are targeting weak saves? Did you have a real tank and other useful comrades? Just trying to adjust your frame so that you're not straw-manning and being silly.

[Zoriaan]

What's the maximum +Cha, +Insightful Cha, +Quality Cha outside of raids? Highest I've seen at this point is 14, 4 and 4 on those.

On the enhancements, I can see getting the two Drow tiers because that's just 6 AP to do that. The Harper 2 takes 12 AP to get both and 7 AP to get 1. Not sure that's doable in any acceptable build alongside the 6 AP required in Drow to get 2.

Epic Destinies looks like 5 from the main destiny and maybe 3 twists for 8 total. Probably more like 5 and 1 given the other twists wanted by most builds so the 6 overall that you posited.

So from my solo perspective I could see:

20 Drow
2 Drow Enhancement (6 AP spent)
6 Class Enhancements (64+ AP spent - assuming a 41+ for capstone giving 2 Cha + 2 Cha in tree, 23+ for2 Cha is in a second tree plus 4th tier Core in that tree)
1 Harper Agent (7AP spent)
7 Tome
7 Level up
6 Destiny
2 Angelic Presence
2 Ascendance
14 Item
4 Insightful
4 Quality
= 75 - which is more than I'd have thought based on numbers I've seen on my characters so far.

If I wanted to go full DC and really push it I could do the 3 twists instead of 1 and get to 77. Maybe I can get a +15 item on a loot bonus day or with a pot or both?

Last question, how realistic is it to craft an Insight bonus to an attribute above +4 without having any raid-only mats? That would be another path to getting close to 80 or so.

Hi,

This is my blaster lock...only raid gear is elitany, no cookies (they are on hotbar, but did not eat them for this screeny), no completionist feat, no drow....only "cheese" item I chugged was a store +2 stat pot...rest is all yugo, etc etc...if I go drow or decide to mix up some ED/twists etc I guess 90-94 sustained CHA is very doable if I plan on going necro route...

Unless you are going to max the hell out of your necro/DC lock, I would recommend playing a blaster build like this to farm the gear you need to max out your DC build...just my 2cents worth...

https://s29.postimg.org/g316ce0kn/Screen_Shot00201.jpg

[JOTMON]

Necro abilites bypassing deathward are OP atm.


Congratulations they are screwing Warlocks.

Per Cordovans notes on Lamannia release.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438926-Lamannia-Release-Notes-(Last-Updated-1-24-17)

~Death effects, including the Warlock Feat Hurl Through Hell and the spell Trap the Soul, are now properly blocked by death wards. These effects will continue to work on undead or monsters who are only protected by their own racial traits, genius, or other effects, but will be specifically blocked by death ward effects. Additionally, Hurl Through Hell now has a spell point cost of 20 Spell Points.


...Double screwover... Hurl costs SP now... the sp dependant warlock theme continues...

guess it time to TR to a bastardized shiradi build.

[Mr_Helmet]

guess it time to TR to a bastardized shiradi build.

We'll get those nerfed next.

[Kebtid]

We'll get those nerfed next.

Yip Yip

[Tlorrd]

Congratulations they are screwing Warlocks.

Per Cordovans notes on Lamannia release.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438926-Lamannia-Release-Notes-(Last-Updated-1-24-17)

~Death effects, including the Warlock Feat Hurl Through Hell and the spell Trap the Soul, are now properly blocked by death wards. These effects will continue to work on undead or monsters who are only protected by their own racial traits, genius, or other effects, but will be specifically blocked by death ward effects. Additionally, Hurl Through Hell now has a spell point cost of 20 Spell Points.


...Double screwover... Hurl costs SP now... the sp dependant warlock theme continues...

guess it time to TR to a bastardized shiradi build.

Being able to complete any LE quest (outside of Raids) at level 20 w/o hurl ... I'm sure you'll be able to find another way to win DDO.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

we'll get those nerfed next.

muahahaha eventually i will proxy nerf everything so that my fire savant is powerful

in shroud

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Congratulations they are screwing Warlocks.

Per Cordovans notes on Lamannia release.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438926-Lamannia-Release-Notes-(Last-Updated-1-24-17)

~Death effects, including the Warlock Feat Hurl Through Hell and the spell Trap the Soul, are now properly blocked by death wards. These effects will continue to work on undead or monsters who are only protected by their own racial traits, genius, or other effects, but will be specifically blocked by death ward effects. Additionally, Hurl Through Hell now has a spell point cost of 20 Spell Points.


...Double screwover... Hurl costs SP now... the sp dependant warlock theme continues...

guess it time to TR to a bastardized shiradi build.

Honestly that was my intention. Prismatic spray needs the treatment too; however my main intention was a boost to Reaper DCs.

[Full_Bleed]

Congratulations they are screwing Warlocks.

Per Cordovans notes on Lamannia release.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438926-Lamannia-Release-Notes-(Last-Updated-1-24-17)

~Death effects, including the Warlock Feat Hurl Through Hell and the spell Trap the Soul, are now properly blocked by death wards. These effects will continue to work on undead or monsters who are only protected by their own racial traits, genius, or other effects, but will be specifically blocked by death ward effects. Additionally, Hurl Through Hell now has a spell point cost of 20 Spell Points.


...Double screwover... Hurl costs SP now... the sp dependant warlock theme continues...
Poor warlocks. Are they really so fragile that they can't even handle a bug fix... let alone a real nerf?

See what you've enabled, devs?

It's like watching someone complain about their burger only having 9.5 strips of bacon on it instead of 10.

[JOTMON]

Poor warlocks. Are they really so fragile that they can't even handle a bug fix... let alone a real nerf?

See what you've enabled, devs?

It's like watching someone complain about their burger only having 9.5 strips of bacon on it instead of 10.

I think you fail to comprehend the issue.
Hurl is based purely on CHA Modifier and Warlock levels, nothing else impacts it. no feats, no DC items, no meta's..
With 100 Cha, my hurl is an 80 DC.. 12 DC's below my necro spells.(which can still be boosted)
.. further parted when casters get another 7 DC's to their spells boosted in Reaper enhancement trees..

the only perk that hurl had was that they bypassed deathward and requiring a will save vs the necro spells that are fort based.
but it also has a slow scasting cycle and a 25 second cooldown.. so not spamming this one...

by implementing this nerf they screwed Hurl not only for warded mobs, but also for high level content.
Hurl was really the only thing that Fiend offered... with that neutered , fiend now is kinda sucky.

[Morroiel]

if they stick the enhancement trees (their versions). Sorc dc casters are going to be king. I already have a build theorycrafted that can achieve 100+ necro, 96+ ench, 96+ evoc, and 92+ conj, and no fail spell pen on anything important. Low cd discos (disco is literally half the cd) and instakills are going to be the way to go. Also it wasn't only locks that got screwed over with the instakill @jotmon... it was ein, violet and green rays, etc. it was a good change. The only thing I disagree with is the sp cost on hurl. I also have a hope that they'll go back and buff it in a upcoming update. Also the nerf isn't nearly as bad as you think it is.... its deathward not deathblock.... so you can still hurl/etc orange nameds not to mention ravenloft coming out at the end of the year.

[Morroiel]

snip

[slarden]

Looks very close to my U32 necro warlock build with a 93/94 necro dc. Here is the link in case there is anything useful you can get from it. It does perform well in reaper, but also all the LE raids.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/460700-Pure-Casting-Warlock-DC-Eld-Blast-Build?p=5869299&viewfull=1#post5869299

One difference is I found utterdark blast to be sub-optimal on the build. I prefer being force based with instakill for trash and most dps force-based: ruin, greater ruin, arcane pulse, eld wave, cone, etc. You can definitely get light higher, but with ruin, greater ruin, arcane pulse being key for boss damage in LE raids I just find maxing force spellpower and crit chance better. For just reaper using free dps perhaps light is useful, but I assume most people will want to run the build in LE raids also.

A necro warlock pairs up really nicely with a high DC deep gnome illusionist/enchanter.

[JOTMON]

if they stick the enhancement trees (their versions). Sorc dc casters are going to be king. I already have a build theorycrafted that can achieve 100+ necro, 96+ ench, 96+ evoc, and 92+ conj, and no fail spell pen on anything important. Low cd discos (disco is literally half the cd) and instakills are going to be the way to go. Also it wasn't only locks that got screwed over with the instakill @jotmon... it was ein, violet and green rays, etc. it was a good change. The only thing I disagree with is the sp cost on hurl. I also have a hope that they'll go back and buff it in a upcoming update.


Also the nerf isn't nearly as bad as you think it is.... its deathward not deathblock.... so you can still hurl/etc orange nameds not to mention ravenloft coming out at the end of the year.


?
Did you even try Lamannia?


~Death Ward is more powerful than the continuous item enhancement called deathblock, which only protects against death effects, and not other kinds of negative energy~

Hurl doesn't work on any of the reapers, they are all warded and immune to Hurl after the change.
based on my testing in Lamannia.. they screwed Hurl..

It was pure nerf, they could of at least allowed it to be boosted by Necro spell focus to make it's DC comparable to the other spells after taking away its only benefit.
Instead we have long casting animation with a long cooldown on a SLA spell that is 15+ DC's less than any of the castable spell dc's.

[Morroiel]

?
Did you even try Lamannia?


~Death Ward is more powerful than the continuous item enhancement called deathblock, which only protects against death effects, and not other kinds of negative energy~

Hurl doesn't work on any of the reapers, they are all warded and immune to Hurl after the change.
based on my testing in Lamannia.. they screwed Hurl..

It was pure nerf, they could of at least allowed it to be boosted by Necro spell focus to make it's DC comparable to the other spells after taking away its only benefit.
Instead we have long casting animation with a long cooldown on a SLA spell that is 15+ DC's less than any of the castable spell dc's.

Yes I did try lamm... I can't believe you ask me that or question my knowledge of game mechanics after you didn't know that prismatic rays weren't no fail / modified by a dc.

The reason why I said its better that its applied to death ward and not death block is a good thing is simple. Not all orange named mobs have death ward, whereas all orange named mobs have deathblock. This means that you can still hurl orange named mobs for instance in LE shroud the portal keepers. While death ward is more powerful than deathblock, it is rarer (especially in non-reaper).

Now don't get me wrong its a nerf, especially in reaper. However, even hurl needed this nerf. LE 10 skull raids - 500k (accounting for damage reduction) hp every 25 seconds on cd.... that's 20k dps assuming a 100% success rate. Not to mention that it works on orange named mobs. The problem with a 1/12 - 1/14 damage factor scaling onto mobs is that instakills are king again unless if you level them off someway else - ergo you get lots of deathward or high saves or blanket immunity and in hurls case attachment to deathward.

Do I think they could have gone about it another way, sure?

Do I think you should freshen up on game mechanics or knowledge before posting / accusing another player of not knowing trivial things about the game, sure?

[Morroiel]

Looks very close to my U32 necro warlock build with a 93/94 necro dc. Here is the link in case there is anything useful you can get from it. It does perform well in reaper, but also all the LE raids.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/460700-Pure-Casting-Warlock-DC-Eld-Blast-Build?p=5869299&viewfull=1#post5869299

One difference is I found utterdark blast to be sub-optimal on the build. I prefer being force based with instakill for trash and most dps force-based: ruin, greater ruin, arcane pulse, eld wave, cone, etc. You can definitely get light higher, but with ruin, greater ruin, arcane pulse being key for boss damage in LE raids I just find maxing force spellpower and crit chance better. For just reaper using free dps perhaps light is useful, but I assume most people will want to run the build in LE raids also.

A necro warlock pairs up really nicely with a high DC deep gnome illusionist/enchanter.

You can actually push it a bit higher: 96 necro, 90 enchant, 86 conj or 95 necro, 89 enchant, 89 conj depending on what you prefer. This is with ofc a 64 spell pen depending.

[slarden]

You can actually push it a bit higher: 96 necro, 90 enchant, 86 conj or 95 necro, 89 enchant, 89 conj depending on what you prefer. This is with ofc a 64 spell pen depending.
I take ruin and greater ruin for le raids. If there is a sustainable D.C. Or spell pen I a missing that won't gimp me please point it out. I am always looking to learn something I am missing.

[JOTMON]

Yes I did try lamm... I can't believe you ask me that or question my knowledge of game mechanics after you didn't know that prismatic rays weren't no fail / modified by a dc.

The reason why I said its better that its applied to death ward and not death block is a good thing is simple. Not all orange named mobs have death ward, whereas all orange named mobs have deathblock. This means that you can still hurl orange named mobs for instance in LE shroud the portal keepers. While death ward is more powerful than deathblock, it is rarer (especially in non-reaper).

Now don't get me wrong its a nerf, especially in reaper. However, even hurl needed this nerf. LE 10 skull raids - 500k (accounting for damage reduction) hp every 25 seconds on cd.... that's 20k dps assuming a 100% success rate. Not to mention that it works on orange named mobs. The problem with a 1/12 - 1/14 damage factor scaling onto mobs is that instakills are king again unless if you level them off someway else - ergo you get lots of deathward or high saves or blanket immunity and in hurls case attachment to deathward.

Do I think they could have gone about it another way, sure?

Do I think you should freshen up on game mechanics or knowledge before posting / accusing another player of not knowing trivial things about the game, sure?


I never said they were no fail. mobs fail on a 1 coming from scroll attacks.
spray 20 mobs with a prismatic spray and chances are 1 will die, maybe 2.. I can cast 4x from scrolls before my hurl regenned on warded mobs prior to the change.
Saves me using ruins when I am low on mana and between eldritch cone attacks waiting for cooldowns.. a couple stacks of prismatic spray scrolls does actually work ..

I was referring to reaper exclusively, not existing content..
I could not use any spells to kill Reapers they were warded and effectively immune to all my necro spells, hurl and devour. I was reduced to trying to eldritch blast them while taking 300hp damage ticks.
and of course the Reapers have the giant type aggro where they can see you a mile away and b-line right to you.
The Necrolock doesn't have much in the way of CC for reapers, the tenticles/web didn't hold them for me.
Even tried a globe of invulnerability vs the reapers.. did nothing... not that it would be a good spell to use anyway.. detrimental to party more than helpful to group...

Trash mobs are trash mobs..
not being able to insta-kill them evolves the game builds and strategy to DPS and Shiradi's.
This change from my perspective will likely push the DC Fiend builds to Fey where Fey can pickup some CC and damage the mobs down while they are dancing.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

You can actually push it a bit higher: 96 necro, 90 enchant, 86 conj or 95 necro, 89 enchant, 89 conj depending on what you prefer. This is with ofc a 64 spell pen depending.

nice

[Morroiel]

I never said they were no fail. mobs fail on a 1 coming from scroll attacks.
spray 20 mobs with a prismatic spray and chances are 1 will die, maybe 2.. I can cast 4x from scrolls before my hurl regenned on warded mobs prior to the change.
Saves me using ruins when I am low on mana and between eldritch cone attacks waiting for cooldowns.. a couple stacks of prismatic spray scrolls does actually work ..

I was referring to reaper exclusively, not existing content..
I could not use any spells to kill Reapers they were warded and effectively immune to all my necro spells, hurl and devour. I was reduced to trying to eldritch blast them while taking 300hp damage ticks.
and of course the Reapers have the giant type aggro where they can see you a mile away and b-line right to you.
The Necrolock doesn't have much in the way of CC for reapers, the tenticles/web didn't hold them for me.
Even tried a globe of invulnerability vs the reapers.. did nothing... not that it would be a good spell to use anyway.. detrimental to party more than helpful to group...

Trash mobs are trash mobs..
not being able to insta-kill them evolves the game builds and strategy to DPS and Shiradi's.
This change from my perspective will likely push the DC Fiend builds to Fey where Fey can pickup some CC and damage the mobs down while they are dancing.

I'm not going to argue what you said or didn't. It's over on the other thread if anyone wants to read it.

You are simultaneously right and wrong about the change in meta. The beauty of reaper (in theory) is that no one build shines because you have so much content cracked wide open again. Dark delirium + otto's irres is a nice combo for a fey lock to have also ottos disco. Atm this is my thoughts on what will be best:

1) Need High DC and High Spell Pen (Its possible that they could scale spell pen/res numbers in future - I'm actually going to suggest they do this depending on what the final reaper trees end up being) - pm wiz
2) Lots of Undead, non danceables - fiend warlock
3) Need multiple discos - pretty much locked into being a sorc for reduced cd (its actually HUGE)
4) Otherwise - fey will be best

Honestly its my thought that sorc will overtake everything but situationally it might help to have a few guildies/friends with other DC caster types to bring if needed.

Still with ravenloft around the corner, fey and fiend locks are still decent if not superior choices. I actually really like the nerf because it brought all the caster dcs into their own niches imo.

[Morroiel]

nice

Thanks just putting numbers out there for people who want to minmax. I know you and slarden have different ideas from me about building. If I'm going DC caster based, I edge out all the DC stats I can possibly get. I'll admit at cap atm your build is probably more fun :P

I just started school again. I'll be updating/posting a whole bunch of builds within a week or so (my take on the necro lock will probably be one of them) in a feeble attempt at celebrating the mutilated reaper mode that we're getting.

[JOTMON]

I'm not going to argue what you said or didn't. It's over on the other thread if anyone wants to read it.

You are simultaneously right and wrong about the change in meta. The beauty of reaper (in theory) is that no one build shines because you have so much content cracked wide open again. Dark delirium + otto's irres is a nice combo for a fey lock to have also ottos disco. Atm this is my thoughts on what will be best:

1) Need High DC and High Spell Pen (Its possible that they could scale spell pen/res numbers in future - I'm actually going to suggest they do this depending on what the final reaper trees end up being) - pm wiz
2) Lots of Undead, non danceables - fiend warlock
3) Need multiple discos - pretty much locked into being a sorc for reduced cd (its actually HUGE)
4) Otherwise - fey will be best

Honestly its my thought that sorc will overtake everything but situationally it might help to have a few guildies/friends with other DC caster types to bring if needed.

Still with ravenloft around the corner, fey and fiend locks are still decent if not superior choices. I actually really like the nerf because it brought all the caster dcs into their own niches imo.


Sorc does looks like it will come out ahead.. but I must resist this option otherwise Cetus and Darkstrife will be right.. and I just cant have that...
Will have to wait and see what Ravenloft brings..

[slarden]

Thanks just putting numbers out there for people who want to minmax. I know you and slarden have different ideas from me about building. If I'm going DC caster based, I edge out all the DC stats I can possibly get. I'll admit at cap atm your build is probably more fun :P

I just started school again. I'll be updating/posting a whole bunch of builds within a week or so (my take on the necro lock will probably be one of them) in a feeble attempt at celebrating the mutilated reaper mode that we're getting.
I think from my listed build you can drop ruin greater ruin and empower and replace with past life wizard , greater spell focus necromancy and epic spell focus necromancy which gets me to 96 on finger 97 on wail devour. You could get finger to 97 by dropping maximize for heighten. I just don't think it is worth it.

with warlock kills having will based and fort based saves options I prefer the dps for those 3 slots as there are very few enemies that have both will and fort save that high. There are some and it will make a 15% difference on only those few.

[Morroiel]

I think from my listed build you can drop ruin greater ruin and empower and replace with past life wizard , greater spell focus necromancy and epic spell focus necromancy which gets me to 96 on finger 97 on wail devour. You could get finger to 97 by dropping maximize for heighten. I just don't think it is worth it.

with warlock kills having will based and fort based saves options I prefer the dps for those 3 slots as there are very few enemies that have both will and fort save that high. There are some and it will make a 15% difference on only those few.

Yes but by taking esf: necro and making other decisions you'll be lowering your overall dc caster stats. The stats I posted are the theoretical maximum (I believe) for no fail spell pen in end game content. If you went full necro lock, you could probably pump it up to 99 (maybe 100 I'm unsure of even/odd cha off top of my head). All your other stats would suffer greatly though.

Not to be a enforce my playstyle on others but there's a big difference between a 59 and a 64 spell pen in some content.

All this is besides the point - I'll post the build soon-ish.

On a side note: while yes the power of a necro lock has always been the ability to target weakest save for instakills. In reaper 10, you'll want to push your dc casting stats to the limit imo. The difference between a 94 necro, 59 spell pen and 96 necro, 64 spell pen can literally make or break whether certain cc oriented spells are effective (e.g. failing to blind a champ archer could lead to multiple deaths): contagion, blindness, etc. Your job as the DC caster is simple: get your group to the boss. That's the only job you have - it doesn't matter if you can throw on a ~2-30k gruin + ruin combo (let's be realistic here you don't crit EVERY time). If you are designing for non-reaper, it makes more sense as I indicated in the above post :).

Edit: @Slarden make sure to take the magister spell pen twist instead of echoes. Same fate point usage and you get +1 spell pen. You are now at 60 spell pen.

[slarden]

Yes but by taking esf: necro and making other decisions you'll be lowering your overall dc caster stats. The stats I posted are the theoretical maximum (I believe) for no fail spell pen in end game content. If you went full necro lock, you could probably pump it up to 99 (maybe 100 I'm unsure of even/odd cha off top of my head). All your other stats would suffer greatly though.

What you haven't been able to do is provide a single way to improve my dc without giving up ruin, greater ruin, empower, etc. The build was designed for instakill with supporting dps. It's not lacking DC. It's choosing DPS instead of those last few points. As far as I know it's maxed out aside from that.

Even in reaper the enchantment DC is working.



Not to be a enforce my playstyle on others but there's a big difference between a 59 and a 64 spell pen in some content.

I never saw a spell pen failure in LE shroud or LE Hound. I rarely see a spell pen failure in LE tempest spine but that is incredibly easy content so in the rare case where it's missed, I simply cast another spell. Not all drow are at 65, most are under 60 based on how rarely I encounter a spell pen failure. I didn't run any of the raids on reaper - so not sure how spell pen scales. That could be an issue in reaper.

I previously used the gloves for 2 more spell pen - it simply wasn't needed so I decided to go for a 2 piece LGS hp set instead.



On a side note: while yes the power of a necro lock has always been the ability to target weakest save for instakills. In reaper 10, you'll want to push your dc casting stats to the limit imo. The difference between a 94 necro, 59 spell pen and 96 necro, 64 spell pen can literally make or break whether certain cc oriented spells are effective (e.g. failing to blind a champ archer could lead to multiple deaths): contagion, blindness, etc. Your job as the DC caster is simple: get your group to the boss. That's the only job you have - it doesn't matter if you can throw on a ~2-30k gruin + ruin combo (let's be realistic here you don't crit EVERY time). If you are designing for non-reaper, it makes more sense as I indicated in the above post :).


You are forgetting that my build was designed when U32 was on Lamannia - before we knew anything about reaper. I only mentioned it here in case the OP can see anything useful.

I will agree that ruin and greater ruin may not be as good for reaper as it is for the LE raids. Still, I will want those for the LE raids and the extra dc is quite simply not needed for reaper so I don't see much benefit to gimping myself in LE raids just for reaper. This build was made specifically for LE shroud but did great in the other LE raids also. If you want super high fort save DCs you go with an illusionist with DCs in the mid 100s without giving up ruin, greater ruin, etc. As a warlock you are at a huge disadvantage with DC and spell pen which previously was made up for by having hurl and devour which as I understand it will no longer exist after the next update. Now the main advantage of a warlock is no-sp instakill going against will save and free dps. The finger SLA also is quite nice as is the command SLA.

Playing a necro warlock requires greater decision making compared to a wizard - knowing when to debuff, when to use the various death spells, when to use command and placement of tentacles, etc. Warlock also has other spells, but obviously not nearly the arsenal a wizard will have.


Edit: @Slarden make sure to take the magister spell pen twist instead of echoes. Same fate point usage and you get +1 spell pen. You are now at 60 spell pen.

On this point you are just flat-out wrong. The spell pen from magister doesn't stack with spell in exalted angel. Taking one locks out the other and using an exploit to get around that is not something I would consider.

[goldgolem]

Im on 2 skull ice tower, and 101 necro dc aint doing ****!

[Ellihor]

Im on 2 skull ice tower, and 101 necro dc aint doing ****!

The saves are really higher on that quest compared to the other stuff at lv or higher lv than Tower of Forsts' lv. I think they did it planning for reaper trees.

[majorhavoc]

Excellent response Morr. Did we play together when Codex dropped on Lamma? I believe I had a thrower at the time.

I have no issue with polemic. You accurately deduced my feats. You are correct that without being in magister it is not possible to obtain no-fail spell pen; however I'm willing to give up a 10% failure in TS to keep wings. You are perhaps overly polite with someone as lazy as me, but I'll answer your post because of it.

56-60 spell pen breakdown:
20 Caster Level
7 Equipment: Spell Pen
4 Equipment: Insightful Spell Pen
3 Destiny
3 Twist
9 Past Lives
2 Tainted Scholar
2 Feat: Spell Penetration
2 Feat: Greater Spell Penetration
4 21 Feat: Epic Spell Penetration
2 Echoes of the Ancestor swap
2 Gloves of the Arcane Soldier swap



The build was designed for Elite Shroud / Slavers (hence the nukes). I believe you to be slightly off in appraising its DCs to be mediocre. I am a knowledgeable caster and I target a mob's weak saves. Pure Wizards trying to brute force the DCs to kill a Trog Warchief is humorous---when a simple hurl over 20 DCs lower does the trick. I guess that's what I love most about the build.

DCs are like defense. I tell myself that once you have enough you should invest in something else. (E.x., a Wizard should play in Sentinel in LE shroud if they want to play aggressive.)
I chose to invest in DPS, but I agree that I may do the reader a disservice by not noting what should be changed for Reaper (outside of the points you made well).

1. GRUIN + RUIN -> Enlarge + Wizard Active PL
2. Perhaps, Maximize -> Greater Necro focus (Though it approaches a wash.)
3. Eburst -> Shadows upon you
4. Use Staunch from Tainted Scholar Core.
5. Swap Domion-SP set for Mat-OP-HP set after SP runs down 1k points.
6. ?

~

You are being a bit hyperbolic about the Stricken upper cores being awful, given the alternatives---I like the alternatives. In Reaper does the scaling occur via Melee Power? It obviously has use in the newer content anyway. (Or at least I hope. Its terribly hard to see how useful it would be.)
I am using vacuum and slotting insightful CHA on ring.

Cheers I hope this discussion is to someone's benefit.

~SAM

I have played a Necro Loc &/or Nuke Loc for the last 50 lives, and I must agree, the extremes are nice on paper but you can easily be very good of both worlds.

Currently running heavey DPS > DC Necro > DC Charm, Having a blast on any content mostly R4-6 w/ some R10 & Raids.
Current DCs: 90 FoD, 88 Devoure Soul, 85 Mass Hold & Mass Chard, 80 Hurl, for sure NOT the best, but good enough for any content IMHO w/o sacrificing DPS.
Currently, on life 111/123, only a few more to go, not saying this is final configuration, just what the current flavour is.
Current scores 30, 30, 60. 60, 40, 102 w/ 1500/4k HP/Mana, & over 100+ in AC,PRR,& MRR


Feats

1 : Empower Spell
1 Dragon : Draconic Ancestry: Red
1 Warlock: Pact: Fiend
3 : Completionist
6 : Past Life: Wizard
9 : Maximize Spell
12 : Enlarge Spell
15 : Quicken Spell
18 : Heighten Spell
21 Epic : Epic Eldritch Blast
24 Epic : Intensify Spell
26 Destiny: Epic Arcane Eldritch Blast
27 Epic : Ruin
28 Destiny: Hellball
29 Destiny: Arcane Pulse
30 Epic : Greater Ruin
30 Legend : Scion of: Plane of Fire

Enhancements (80+10 AP)

Soul Eater (42 AP)
• Inhuman Understanding, Inhuman Nature, No Worse Fate, Inhuman Nature II, Eldritch Seeker, Devour the Soul
1. Consume, Subtle Spellcasting III, Hungry for Destruction III
2. Stricken III, Hungry for Destruction III
3. Burning Blood, Eldritch Cone Shape, Charisma
4. Greater Hunger, Immortal Will, Charisma
5. Eldritch Ward, Supreme Hunger, Feed on Magic, Spell Tearing, Finger of Death

Tainted Scholar (32 AP)
• Tainted Spellcasting, Tainted Lore, Stanch, Tainted Lore II, Blood Component
1. Feigned Health III, Strong Pact
2. Utterdark Blast, Eldritch Chain Shape, Strong Pact
3. Confusion III, Strong Pact, Charisma
4. Enervating Shadow, Bewitching Blast III, Strong Pact, Charisma

Dragonborn (16 AP)
• Hardy, Charisma, Hardy II, Charisma
1. Resilience
2. Resilience, Arcanum III


Destiny (24 AP)

Exalted Angel
1. Radiant Power III, Endless Faith III, Healing Power III, Charisma
2. Charisma
3. Piercing Spellcraft III, Charisma
4. Charisma
5. Charisma
6. Charisma

Twists of Fate (35 fate points)
1. Energy Burst: Fire (Tier 4 Draconic)
2. Echoes of Arcane (Tier 3 Fatesinger)
3. School Specialist: Necromancy (Tier 2 Magister)
4. Interrogation (Tier 1 Crusader)
5. Charisma (Tier 1 Fatesinger)

[Spadedragon]

We'll get those nerfed next.

Clerics and Favored Souls followed by ranged characters will be next on the nerf list.