Elf Rangers seem to suck. Some ideas to fix.

[AMADHA]

Original post has been deleted. I would delete the entire thread, but I can't seem to figure out how.

Thank you for all your responses. I learned a lot, especially to NEVER, NEVER EVER, use the word suck in any context. People have trouble with that word. ;-)

[Mr_Helmet]

Comments?

If you think rangers "suck" in the current state of the game the biggest issue exists between your keyboard and your chair.

[Bacab]

I will keep this short...

I disagree withe the OP.

Too many things to point out all of them.

Keep playing your Warlock if you like it more.

Many people think Warlock is overpowered. I am not trying to go down that road.

Maybe this whole thread is just a complicated and veiled "Nerf warlocks" thread?

[KoobTheProud]

Comparing any other class to Warlocks in Heroic play will likely make the other class look weak.

Use Khopeshes and things will get better in Epic levels.

[psykopeta]

Sorry, but starting from thw point that you don't know how to build your toon properly, your suggestions don't make sense

Atm 2 ranger builds are way ahead of warlock, some things about what you posted:
-24 str is low, if you think that's high maybe your stat distribution is weird
-from that we could assume you lack gear(niwadays random gear has insane values)
-then we also could assume your leveling stats are weird, therefore your feats choice can be just wrong too
- with all that, there're no enhancements that can save your toon

Did you try any ranger build to see what makes your toon strong and what not? It may be something related to playing skill(that's what missleads to think warlocks are OP)

In short: if you think racial that gives 1 to hit and damage is something you need, you are doing it wrong

[Mofus]

Wow tough crowd here tonight. If you are at level 18 and not happy with your build, I would level to 20 and tr the toon. You will get the past life feat and be able redo your build. I would look at some of the forum builds for rangers. I have seen quite a few rangers in my time playing, and most didn't suck. A lot of what these guys are saying here makes sense, you should look at your build limitations, and go from there. If you are a 28 point build trying to do elite quests on level, that may be an issue. Gear is certainly an issue if you don't outfit correctly. Again, I would look at other buikds, and work towards that. Good luck, and have fun out there.

[Xaxx]

If you think rangers "suck" in the current state of the game the biggest issue exists between your keyboard and your chair.

this.... quite this...

first thing to remedy your problems... go to the classes section.... then go to rangers section... find the build theads with a page or 12 in them from the last 10 months.... and read a couple of them. This might be a bit more of a simple solution then asking the devs to you know change coding just because your having a bit of a problem.... food for thought?

[Rykka]

Warlock is the p2p easy button for new players. Ranger is the slightly less easy button, f2p class, for new players. Both are fine where they are.

Human ranger is better than elf ranger as Gygax intended. I'm OK with that.

[Memnir]

http://i.imgur.com/4RlKtHP.gif

[Jetrule]

As a melee ranger you will get more damage by focusing your enhancement points in tempest and deepwood stalker than going for the small bonuses in a racial tree. In general the only racial tree worth pursuing weapon bonuses in is Dwarf to eventually get throw your weight around. This isnt done for a superior damage build but mostly for a high hit point/constitution build that doesn't sacrifice as much damage for the higher constitution. Taking racial weapon focuses might be used in other races too but it is usual in pursuit of something high in the racial tree. Like a high dragon mark focus.

For a heroic leveled pure ranger tempest strength isn't bad you can buff strength a bit with rams might and rage potions. Int focused with harper and know the angles will be a bit higher damage than that once you get at least 28 int by taking the insightful reflex feat you will have good reflex saves too. Other wise strength based is tied or in the lead with rage and rams. And there is nothing to stop you from going high strength and having a good starting int and wearing int items to boost damage with know the angles. Dex based is good for reflex saves and getting some feats like spring attack and precision as a ranger though you will get the 2 weapon fighting feats for free without dex so its not as vital. If you do go dex then scimitars and rapiers and even some named short swords and daggers are very nice. As a melee ranger your main tree should be tempest getting the nice things in tier 5 your secondary tree should be deepwood stalker getting at least killerIII and advanced sneak attack, I would take all the survivalist enhancements too. Dont neglect to use a bow with manyshot you can doo good damage and a few points in AA would help that. At least enough for conjure arrow.

This is a good template with several options for a first life ranger. https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/445226-Revisiting-the-Elven-Ranger-for-New-Players scroll down to the shadow tempest.

[Dragavon]

I think these two 'fixes' would fix all three races' weapon issues, the ranger class as a whole, and specifically... elves. So a big win for the elf ranger. Comments?

Sorry to say this, but you have only played a ranger to level 18. The problem here is not that rangers are weak, because they are not. The problem is that you do not understand how to build them and play them. You need to level to 30, then do some epic reincarnations. I am certain you will learn a lot and be able to build and play a much better ranger with more experience.

Warlocks are simply much easier and require less effort than rangers.

Just take this part for example:


So I focused the build and tested it. I found that Dex to hit/damage within the tempest/deep wood stalker line isn't as good as Int to hit/damage from the Harper line because of the weapon restriction (light). Sigh. Plus, he hits very softly even with a strength around 24.

An elven ranger can get higher in DEX than in any other stat, and that should be your focus. You say harper / int gives more damage, and with KtA that may be the case, but you also talk about STR at 24 makes you do little damage. STR should be a dump stat on your character.

To me it does not sound as if you have made a focused character at all.

[AzureDragonas]

All *issues* comes when someone who clearly don't know how to build fails to do so and blames game for his mistake. Ranger specially pure can do tons of damage already same as tempest. Instead of trying to fix something that is not broken learn to build and check how others builds them https://www.ddo.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/27-Ranger

For warlock i guess most will agree that even autistic child who started playing can play him well, because that's how silly warlock is. Claim to be good with warlock is as good as being proud that you can sum 1+1. Issues with warlock it's a separate discussion.

[kanordog]

I found that Dex to hit/damage within the tempest/deep wood stalker line isn't as good as Int to hit/damage from the Harper line because of the weapon restriction (light). Sigh. Plus, he hits very softly even with a strength around 24. But, I have an idea on how to fix this, but you need to read more.


Elves, Drow, and Gnomes




Why are you doing str build ranger rogue? Int makes more sense for trapping and dex for sneaking anyway. So I'd do dex for light or elven weapons or Int for anything else. With this You could dump STR and put those points into Your main stat.

Elf = ftp
Drow = 995 store points or gametime (favour)
Gnome = 1295 store points
obviously drow and gnomes supposed to have some perks

[Coyopa]

If you think rangers "suck" in the current state of the game the biggest issue exists between your keyboard and your chair.

This. Learn to build and play rangers correctly and your play experience will be completely different. This means reading up on the forums and the wiki and really understanding what feats and enhancements do and where the synergies are.

[FranOhmsford]

Sorry, but starting from thw point that you don't know how to build your toon properly, your suggestions don't make sense

Atm 2 ranger builds are way ahead of warlock, some things about what you posted:
-24 str is low, if you think that's high maybe your stat distribution is weird
-from that we could assume you lack gear(niwadays random gear has insane values)
-then we also could assume your leveling stats are weird, therefore your feats choice can be just wrong too
- with all that, there're no enhancements that can save your toon

Did you try any ranger build to see what makes your toon strong and what not? It may be something related to playing skill(that's what missleads to think warlocks are OP)

In short: if you think racial that gives 1 to hit and damage is something you need, you are doing it wrong

The OP is lvl 18 and first life - I'd say there is a good chance that the OP is a 28 pt build not 32 pt {Not sure if a Lesser Reincarnation to gain 32 pt would be worth it at lvl 18 or whether soldiering through to 20, running DA 20 times and TRing would be more feasible}.

Now the OP has prioritised Dex - Guessing 18 base as 19/20 would really gimp everything else.
Maybe the OP read or heard the news about Con 14 being an absolute requirement and went for that despite being an Elf or maybe he/she has the more gettable 12 Con.
Maybe the OP didn't know about +4 items being so prevalent that a base Wis of 10 or even 8 is fine for spellcasting.
Perhaps the OP wanted a decent Int of 12.
This doesn't leave much room for Str to go above 14 base.

Or perhaps the OP even went with the Tempest Pre-Build and didn't customize?

Considering the OP is a Dex build the chances are the OP put all Level Ups into Dex.

Elf Racial = Dex
Tempest = Dex or Str but chances are the OP would have gone with Dex here too.

So....14 Base Str + a +10 item which is pretty decent for a Lvl 18 Character - I think I've seen +10 items with min Lvl 18 and below?



http://i.imgur.com/P7hJVB8.jpg

[FranOhmsford]

An elven ranger can get higher in DEX than in any other stat, and that should be your focus. You say harper / int gives more damage, and with KtA that may be the case, but you also talk about STR at 24 makes you do little damage. STR should be a dump stat on your character.

To me it does not sound as if you have made a focused character at all.

Excuse me but pretty sure as a Tempest he still needs Power Attack which requires a Base 13 Str - 13 is not dumping!

[Dragavon]

Now the OP has prioritised Dex - Guessing 18 base as 19/20 would really gimp everything else.


If you carefully read the first post, he says focused dex build, but later complains about low damage with 24 str.

That leaves me uncertain as to what the OP means with focused, and I doubt he has a good understanding of how his character works.

If OP could post his build and show us what he has done I am certain we could help, but I am not going to assume anything like you do Fran.

[Dragavon]

Excuse me but pretty sure as a Tempest he still needs Power Attack which requires a Base 13 Str - 13 is not dumping!

Precision is better than PA. And PA is not at all something you must have. I do not have it on any of my TWF ranger builds.

[FranOhmsford]

If you carefully read the first post, he says focused dex build, but later complains about low damage with 24 str.

That leaves me uncertain as to what the OP means with focused, and I doubt he has a good understanding of how his character works.

If OP could post his build and show us what he has done I am certain we could help, but I am not going to assume anything like you do Fran.

Hang on so what does "focused on" mean to you?

And 20 would be max Dex for an Elf - 18 is more viable for a 28 pt build but even that as I've shown gimps you elsewhere - The OP wanted a Ranger/Rogue build so it's actually possible he pushed Int up to 12 and has 12 Con rather than 14, He may even have pushed Int to 14 as he's stated that Harper is better for him - This would really hurt him elsewhere and may have even dropped his Dex to 17 or even 16 as he made sure to keep at least 13 str and at least 12 Con.

Now if he has 32 pt build on that character it becomes easier to get all these requirements but you're still not going to get 20 Dex, 16 Int, 14 Con and 13 Str! {And that's if you know you can leave Wis at 8 which the OP might not have known when he first created this character! - The little Dev write-up on the creation screen states that Wis is needed!}.




Precision is better than PA. And PA is not at all something you must have. I do not have it on any of my TWF ranger builds.

This isn't something you read too often - The general consensus still seems to PA.

Maybe this is actually worth a Poll? - https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/482649-Poll-Tempest-PA-or-Precision

[Eth]

This isn't something you read too often - The general consensus still seems to PA.

Maybe this is actually worth a Poll?

If we talk higher end LEs there is no build that can hit everything on a 2 or higher, which alone makes precision already better (5 damage per swing doesn't make up for doing one less hit per 20 swings).
Let alone the 25% fort bypass, which brings precision further ahead.

PA still makes sense if you want to pick up some abilities (momentum swing) or if you simply can't use precision (barbs while raged).

For leveling it's probably PA.

[FranOhmsford]

If we talk higher end LEs there is no build that can hit everything on a 2, which makes precision already better (5 damage per swing doesn't make up for doing one less hit per 20 swings).
Let alone the 25% fort bypass...

PA still makes sense if you want to pick up some abilities (momentum swing) or if you simply can't use precision (barbs while raged).

For leveling it's probably PA.

The OP is level 18 - He hasn't even got to Epics yet!

[Dragavon]

Hang on so what does "focused on" mean to you?

And 20 would be max Dex for an Elf - 18 is more viable for a 28 pt build but even that as I've shown gimps you elsewhere - The OP wanted a Ranger/Rogue build so it's actually possible he pushed Int up to 12 and has 12 Con rather than 14, He may even have pushed Int to 14 as he's stated that Harper is better for him - This would really hurt him elsewhere and may have even dropped his Dex to 17 or even 16 as he made sure to keep at least 13 str and at least 12 Con.

Now if he has 32 pt build on that character it becomes easier to get all these requirements but you're still not going to get 20 Dex, 16 Int, 14 Con and 13 Str! {And that's if you know you can leave Wis at 8 which the OP might not have known when he first created this character! - The little Dev write-up on the creation screen states that Wis is needed!}.





This isn't something you read too often - The general consensus still seems to PA.

Maybe this is actually worth a Poll?

If OP wants a rogue / ranger build he should max INT and have good con, the rest of the stats are not important, beyond having enough str to not get encumbered with loot. You say "pushing int to 12", in my opinion that is gimping a rogue / ranger build completely. Maximum possible int and as many points in harper as you need to get int to attack, int to damage and KtA will be the best way to do it.

An int based ranger does not need dex at all, he will get all the feats for free anyway. Insighful reflexes takes care of reflex save.

PA gives you slighty more damage, but reduces your chance to hit. Precision increases your chance to hit, and lets you crit monsters with fortification. In my opinion, if you miss on a 2 with PA active then precision is better. If you hit everything on a 2 with PA active then maybe it is good on a THF build. But I think precision is better on every boss / raid boss in the game, all constructs and all undead.

[FranOhmsford]

If OP wants a rogue / ranger build he should max INT and have good con, the rest of the stats are not important, beyond having enough str to not get encumbered with loot. You say "pushing int to 12", in my opinion that is gimping a rogue / ranger build completely. Maximum possible int and as many points in harper as you need to get int to attack, int to damage and KtA will be the best way to do it.

An int based ranger does not need dex at all, he will get all the feats for free anyway. Insighful reflexes takes care of reflex save.

PA gives you slighty more damage, but reduces your chance to hit. Precision increases your chance to hit, and lets you crit monsters with fortification. In my opinion, if you miss on a 2 with PA active then precision is better. If you hit everything on a 2 with PA active then maybe it is good on a THF build. But I think precision is better on every boss / raid boss in the game, all constructs and all undead.

The OP's joindate is 2011

Harper did not exist in 2011!

The OP has stated he played around with an Int Build on Lamannia - He may not be able to reincarnate on Live though.

[Dragavon]

The OP's joindate is 2011

Harper did not exist in 2011!

The OP has stated he played around with an Int Build on Lamannia - He may not be able to reincarnate on Live though.

Stop beeing ridiculous Fran. OP was posted hours ago, we are talking about what is in game now, not in 2011.

[FranOhmsford]

Stop beeing ridiculous Fran. OP was posted hours ago, we are talking about what is in game now, not in 2011.

NO!

People have attacked the OP for his build which as the OP has stated was his FIRST character and the OP's joindate is 2011 it is EXTREMELY RELEVANT to note that talking about abilities that exist today for a build that was created in 2011 doesn't help!

The OP is already Lvl 18 - Doing a Lesser Reincarnation now could very easily be a waste of a Heart when a True Reincarnation is just around the corner!

We are talking about what was available in 2011 because the OP Built his Character in 2011!

P.S. I hated the "Re-Roll your Character" Statement back then and I still hate it now! Lesser Hearts do not grow on trees - The OP may have used his free one before Harper came out also!
And even if he hasn't used that free Heart HE IS LVL 18, ONLY 2 LEVELS AWAY FROM BEING ABLE TO TR! He may need that Heart on a later life and I wouldn't advise he use it at Lvl 18 unless he absolutely has to!

[Dragavon]

So, you think we should talk about what he could do in 2011, and not what he can and should do today? :rolleyes:

[BigErkyKid]

Warlocks are easier to play, I think that's what you are finding out.

If you want a template for a melee elf ranger, mine is super standard.

See here:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/475462-U31-Poor-man-s-ranger

[Ulfo]

If you think rangers "suck" in the current state of the game the biggest issue exists between your keyboard and your chair.

^^^
This.


Stop beeing ridiculous Fran.

^^^^^
And this.

[moomooprincess]

I agree with the OP on this part ELF characters are not good.

I create them as a complete garbage character. If I create an elf it is to mark that character down as to be deleted in the future.

As for Rangers, all my rangers are dwarves. For me, that is the best race for a ranger. My clerics tend to be humans or dwarves. My fighter types are half orcs. My rogues are halflings. My bards are Drow. My wizards and Sorcs are Warforged.

The first character I made on Argonesson, khyber, Sarlona, Wayfinder, Thelanis, and Orien is a dwarven 28 pt ranger.

[FranOhmsford]

So, you think we should talk about what he could do in 2011, and not what he can and should do today? :rolleyes:

No I think you should stop judging a player by what he did in 2011 based on what is available today!


And I think you should temper your "advice" to what the OP can realistically do without a full respec!
Too many players in this thread have just jumped on the OP without attempting to find out what is actually available to him {Remember his playing around with his toon's build has been done on Lamannia not on Live servers!}.



My post was about the limitations of a 28 pt build {which this likely is as the OP's very first character unless he's already done a respec after earning 1k favour} built in 2011 which the OP's joindate suggests it was!


And I keep hearing/reading people saying that 1 pt of damage or 1 pt of saves or 1 pt of anything doesn't make or break a build.
So what exactly is so wrong with asking for Racial Wpn Enhancements to be given a bit more Oomph? {Which is basically what the OP did only to get jumped on by people attacking him for not knowing how to build a Ranger!}.

The OP's ideas weren't that bad either although I don't like that he dropped Falchion from Elves entirely - But no-one's argued his ideas, Everyone's just jumped on his perceived lack of build knowledge!
IT WAS HIS FIRST TOON! HE STATED THIS IN THE OP! IT WAS BUILT 6 YEARS AGO! maybe just say that a 6 year old toon maybe outdated today and that as he's lvl 18 already he should perhaps just soldier on to 20 and TR it.
Then you could perhaps give him a build he could play on that 2nd Life that would fit with today's standard.

[janave]

Ranger AA is possibly the more new player friendly (mix in some DWS). Using paralyzing and elemental arrows mainly.

Tempest requires a fair bit more preparation, and possibly +3-6 months of very active playtime on a VIP account with helpful friends before it gets "That Good" as F(orum)DDO suggests.

Warlock is a broken class in DDO, the class ignores rules of all kinds, the implementation missing several limiting parameters, so it will always be easier compared to other options. (we call the class legal cheat in the guild)

I would say that a sprinting AA - or - (multi TR) Tempest on Blitz will actually outperform the lazy-played Warlock builds. But it would take far less investment on a warlock to reach autopilot EE runs compared to a melee Ranger.

Before the latest "patch", i'd have recommended to use stealth as part of your strategy and skip some mobs/limit what you fight, but that isn’t ideal right now. (Dex. Rangers would get good at stealth at later levels, most certainly by lvl18.)

[Renvar]

Rangers are very strong DPS. Elves have a decent racial tree, although most racial trees are lacking in general.

One thing you could do is give up a feat for the dragon mark and spend some AP for displacement. an Elf ranger with a lot of displacement is a nice defense boost, particularly in heroics where there isn't a lot of true seeing on mobs.

All that said, I wouldn't mind seeing a racial tree pass at some point after the class passes are done. There seems to be some imbalance, and just general lack of value, in the racial trees.

[Dragavon]

No I think you should stop judging a player by what he did in 2011 based on what is available today!

I am not bashing OP because of the choices he did in 2011.

I am bashing OP because he has a 5 year old ranger that he has played to lvl 18, and then he thinks he knows what is wrong with rangers and how to fix them, when he has not seen half the game.

I do not care what OP did in 2011, I am talking about what we can do today.

Rangers can be very strong today, if you build and play them right.

[FranOhmsford]

I am not bashing OP because of the choices he did in 2011.

I am bashing OP because he has a 5 year old ranger that he has played to lvl 18, and then he thinks he knows what is wrong with rangers and how to fix them, when he has not seen half the game.

I do not care what OP did in 2011, I am talking about what we can do today.

Rangers can be very strong today, if you build and play them right.

Bashing the OP is not helping! All you're doing is perhaps driving a returning {I can't think of any other reason it would have taken 6 years} player to quit again!

You could have tried to "help" the op but instead decided to "attack" him {and others have done the same}.

And Heroic and Epic are so different that you may as well be playing two completely different games! BUT If the OP's Ranger isn't working at 18 then it's very very unlikely it will work in Epics for some time {Destiny Farming a requirement!}.

[Dragavon]

I am helping OP, I am trying to tell him what is good today.

Then someone without a clue comes along and makes a lot of noise, like empty barrels do.

And many of today's best builds does not come together until epic levels. I have characters that only shines from lvl 24 and up.

[Mr_Helmet]

Elves do kinda suck, I did ignore that part.

Make it until 20, TR into a human.

Or just go warlock, it's what SSG wants you to do anyway.

[Whitering]

I had a level 7 elf monk I tred into a ranger and used the xp boost option with her anniversary golden ticket, because I was just kind of stuck. Now, she's an alt, so I just get a level per week on her, but she's coming along nicely. I use the Saphire Sting bow and can elite my way up. She is a first life toon that is 6ish years old, but I lred her, so I got the 32 points v. the 28 the OP would have started with.

If it is about gear take a look at the lower level quests, trials of the Archons has weapons in it that will see you through to TF at level 23. Also, modern day crafting can make some really nice weapons, put festival icey burst on them come Risia. If you are melee you really need Blurry. I get mine from a Ring of Shadows. Just work out your gear, personally, I do not love warlock play, but I have a couple of them, alts that were otherwise stuck or just to test theories.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

While Warlocks are OP; Elf Rangers are just downright fun! (and don't suck)

[Paleus]

Okay, my first toon was selected to be a ranger elf with a level of rogue so he could open locks, disable traps, and have good survival capability. He is now level 18, meanwhile I recently started a warlock and she is quickly closing in on my ranger's level. Why? Because he sucks!

Gonna stop you right there. Just to double check, you have a join date of 2011, but you mention your first toon was an elf ranger? I'm operating therefore under the assumption that this is indeed your first toon and the join-date is out of sync. You will see noticeable gains to your performance during the first several iterations of this game / heroic leveling. Personally, I would not find it surprising that a second character performed better than the first.

Second, the warlock is just a bad measuring stick, they are quite powerful in heroic for new players, which is distorting your gauge. But I think one thing that might be magnifying this is a ranged vs melee difference. Ranged means you start hitting things sooner and they don't hit you as often. You focus on tempest and melee DWS features, so am I correct to assume your ranger is melee oriented? I'm not saying that ranged is better than melee, just that if you are new as I'm thinking, the advantages that a Warlock has for a new player are compounding along this axis.

I would suggest, you might want to redo your ranger and this time level up ranged focus (AA and DWS). If you're lucky, you're on a server where we can get someone to pass you a silver bow. For heroic leveling, it'll be quite nice. Taking a second spin might give you a different perspective on the differences in power.

[NaturalHazard]

Racial trees are mainly a noob trap these days, take most or even all of your APs out of the racials put it in tempest all the way to get all the cores plus the highest tiers the rest into DWS as a melee ranger.

Gear yourself appropriately. Scimitars are fine, if your a new player doign a first life I would say goign dex based is not a bad route with scimitars.

your ranger is level 18 get him to level 20 tr back to ranger with a better planned build and notice the difference, also make note of what gear to look out for.

You need to get the highest melee attack speed item you can get, the highest seeker items, the highest primary stat item for your damage be it strength or dex, 24 is super low for level 18, then of course do not dump con, look for con items and false life items, then saves, insight, parrying. theres threads with info on how to build and gear your melee ranger.

Dance of death will be your friend, its awesome for a 2wf,

[unbongwah]

Rangers are fine. Racial trees (outside of human / BF) could definitely use some buffs, though, but that goes well beyond the scope of this particular thread, which basically boils down to "my warlock is more powerful than my ranger at level 18 and that's not right!" Which, y'know, is a pretty narrow view of DDO game balance...

[AMADHA]

While Warlocks are OP; Elf Rangers are just downright fun! (and don't suck)

I agree they are fun. However, when I participate in the odd group or the various "festivals" it is painfully obvious that my ranger is woefully under-powered compared to other classes. However, I really enjoy the hit them with arrows to soften them up then hack them up with swords approach to adventuring that rangers provide.

[AMADHA]

Rangers are fine. Racial trees (outside of human / BF) could definitely use some buffs, though, but that goes well beyond the scope of this particular thread, which basically boils down to "my warlock is more powerful than my ranger at level 18 and that's not right!" Which, y'know, is a pretty narrow view of DDO game balance...

It might come down to the fact that I'm better at rolling characters now... however, when participating in the various 'festivals' my ranger has an obvious different kill rate from any of the other player characters I see. Could be my slow finger speed on clickies, but I've noticed the difference time and again.

[AMADHA]

Gonna stop you right there. Just to double check, you have a join date of 2011, but you mention your first toon was an elf ranger? I'm operating therefore under the assumption that this is indeed your first toon and the join-date is out of sync. You will see noticeable gains to your performance during the first several iterations of this game / heroic leveling. Personally, I would not find it surprising that a second character performed better than the first.

Okay, technically, my first toon was a dwarf cleric. I didn't like his not being able to open locks, chests, and not being able to do anything about traps. So I went looking and rolled me up a tempest trap monkey. I enjoyed playing him and I still do (hence lvl 18). But he takes effort to meander through quests on solo without getting killed. Plus I don't play any 'festivals' with him especially the Halloween ones or Pirates cove as his kill rate is just too low to make them worth while. Good thing I get these +3 hearts every now and then, so have an opportunity to 'tune' him. Like I said, all those nice trees with what seems like good things in them... experience has shown, are worthless. Like you say push to 20 and TR, stash great gear, start over, focus = better play.

[AMADHA]

I am not bashing OP because of the choices he did in 2011.

I am bashing OP because he has a 5 year old ranger that he has played to lvl 18, and then he thinks he knows what is wrong with rangers and how to fix them, when he has not seen half the game.

I do not care what OP did in 2011, I am talking about what we can do today.

Rangers can be very strong today, if you build and play them right.

I don't know how to fix Rangers, but I believed that I had an concept of an idea, therefore I put forward a post to propose an option that seemed to make sense to me after reading several hundred ranger builds and testing out dozens of them. I've not made it to elite play levels except in Lamania and things do play different there. However, my focus is on new players (or less experienced ones) being successful with what I think is a potentially great class. The question is... would what I proposed assist in that or over correct? The comments I have read thus far do not for the most part actually respond to the viability of my proposal, but rather how terrible a player I am, which I freely admit.

As for rangers being strong... I submit that once they have TRed and are loaded up with the right gear, sure. Many of the builds on these forums have long equipment lists with them. I haven't even seen most of them plus you have to build the ranger exactly right for your play style and gear. Is that ideal? I propose that it isn't. If you need to have a level 6 or 7 out of 10 knowledge of how the game works to build successful characters then new or inexperienced players will fail. A great example is racial trees, they basically should be ignored if one looks at builds for strong rangers or other classes for that matter. As for playing them right, that takes a lot of time. I've been playing off and on for 6 years and I'm just starting to get the hang of it, but perhaps I'm just a slow learner or just a generally bad player. Either way, does my post have any merit and if not, why not? If you don't agree with the premise that rangers are now a somewhat flawed class, why not? As an experienced player imagine not being one, and how would that impact your view of the play of a particular class?

[AMADHA]

...And I keep hearing/reading people saying that 1 pt of damage or 1 pt of saves or 1 pt of anything doesn't make or break a build.
So what exactly is so wrong with asking for Racial Wpn Enhancements to be given a bit more Oomph? {Which is basically what the OP did only to get jumped on by people attacking him for not knowing how to build a Ranger!}.

The OP's ideas weren't that bad either although I don't like that he dropped Falchion from Elves entirely - But no-one's argued his ideas, Everyone's just jumped on his perceived lack of build knowledge!
IT WAS HIS FIRST TOON! HE STATED THIS IN THE OP! IT WAS BUILT 6 YEARS AGO! maybe just say that a 6 year old toon maybe outdated today and that as he's lvl 18 already he should perhaps just soldier on to 20 and TR it.

Thanks for finally commenting on the idea. I think it's interesting that so many are so distracted by the "first toon". I have remade him a few times using +x Hearts that he's received over the years using build ideas from the forums and he's not as bad as he was. I have added stuff I thought would make him more interesting to me to play... which seems to have hurt him, but he's level 18 now and I've respected him one final time for the push to 20 with a more specific focus and better success at his level.

I dropped Falchion because it was a two handed weapon and could never in any world be considered as 'light' so my change to the enhancement to consider racial weapons as 'light' for Dex to hit/dmg wouldn't make sense. However for an AA or DWS focused drow ranger... maybe keeping Falchion and dropping scimitar would be better suited for the race. What do you think?

[AMADHA]

If you carefully read the first post, he says focused dex build, but later complains about low damage with 24 str.

That leaves me uncertain as to what the OP means with focused, and I doubt he has a good understanding of how his character works.

If OP could post his build and show us what he has done I am certain we could help, but I am not going to assume anything like you do Fran.

The dex of this Char is 30+ with gear and tomes. ST started at 14, DE at 17, CO 14 IN 12 WI 10 or something close to those with all level up to DEX. But this thread, like the PA vs Precision discussion, while interesting has nothing to do with the main point of my post.

Does the concept of making those two changes to racials and enhancements that I proposed make sense within the game? Would they improve the low end play-ability and growth of elf/drow Rangers (and rationalize Gnome racial weapons) or would make them a bit too easy to play and level.

[AMADHA]

... I disagree withe the OP.

Too many things to point out all of them.

...Maybe this whole thread is just a complicated and veiled "Nerf warlocks" thread?

Thanks, but one or two reasons would be nice, since that is what I asked for. No it's not.

[AMADHA]

If you think rangers "suck" in the current state of the game the biggest issue exists between your keyboard and your chair.

Maybe. But I said SEEM to suck, there's a difference. I've played about 20+ versions of one up to level 8 or 10 and then I kill them. Even after all that I still prefer the class. BTW I prefer 'ID 10T system error', if you don't mind.

[KoobTheProud]

The reason you're getting so many responses is that Rangers were one of the most recent classes that were fixed by class passes. Properly built Tempest Rangers are one of the stronger classes in the game right now and so when you say that Elf Rangers suck, well the average player isn't willing to give that idea much credence at this point.

Elves are a bit less effective than some other races as a melee due primarily to -2 Con in the racial passives but that's just a minor issue. Humans are a bit more effective than some other races due primarily to an extra feat and more skill points and a damage boost in the racial but again that's just a minor effect overall.

Read the posts in the thread that have suggested how to make your Ranger better. No disrespect intended but it's not Rangers or Elven Rangers that are the primary problem in your perception that Elven Rangers are weak. It's the choices that you have made in playing an Elven Ranger your way that are weak.

Be aware that many of the players responding to you are going to see a low 30's score in an attribute as very, very low. It's not uncommon for a veteran player who understands how to stack stats to have attribute scores in the 50's and 60's by the time their character is in the early 20's.

[EllisDee37]

The reason you're not getting feedback on how to make rangers stronger is because rangers are already one of the stronger melee classes in the game.

EDIT: Doh! Or what KoobTheProud said. Looks like I left this window open too long before hitting submit.

EDIT 2: Think of it this way. Imagine a new player posted a thread saying that Warlocks suck, and then proposed a couple ideas to improve them so that they could become playable. How would you respond to such a thread?

[AMADHA]

Rangers are fine. Racial trees (outside of human / BF) could definitely use some buffs, though, but that goes well beyond the scope of this particular thread, which basically boils down to "my warlock is more powerful than my ranger at level 18 and that's not right!" Which, y'know, is a pretty narrow view of DDO game balance...

Actually, I was using my favorite ranger as an example... which seems to pull almost everyone down the same rabbit hole.

However, you seem to agree with the need for buffs to racial trees... so is the buff being proposed for the races identified too much or not the right one? That was the question.

[AMADHA]

The reason you're not getting feedback on how to make rangers stronger is because rangers are already one of the stronger melee classes in the game.

EDIT: Doh! Or what KoobTheProud said. Looks like I left this window open too long before hitting submit.

EDIT 2: Think of it this way. Imagine a new player posted a thread saying that Warlocks suck, and then proposed a couple ideas to improve them so that they could become playable. How would you respond to such a thread?

With an explanation of why the idea was not a good one and possible options as to how they might improve their experience with them using their complaint as hints to that advice. Because, regardless about how 'uninformed' they may seem to be... at least they were interested enough to think about it and post something. The other option is that they don't do that and say "Chuck it, I'll play something else!" and if enough of them do that... DDO dies, and none of us will be playing this game. That is how I would respond.

Also, I'm not sure that I agree with the first statement, I have seen fighters and barbarians slice through stuff faster than blinking. Although, it seems to have a lot to do with gear... possibly more than class. I have teamed up with some impressive players who did things I've been trying to copy for quite a while, so it could be that it is the player as well. Either way, I do not share that opinion and I have not seen a lot of other comments in forums that agree with it as well... but maybe I just need to read different threads.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

I agree they are fun. However, when I participate in the odd group or the various "festivals" it is painfully obvious that my ranger is woefully under-powered compared to other classes. However, I really enjoy the hit them with arrows to soften them up then hack them up with swords approach to adventuring that rangers provide.

under powered compared to other classes, or other players, or other characters? they can all look the same to the untrained eye. most people who play this game are noobs, and actually not very good at it. however they play the same characters long enough gaining more and more power from both past lives and gear, and memorizing the content to the point that a new player will always be less powerful than any old character (that has actually been played) being played, and often be less powerful than an old player who simply knows where to go and what to do.


It might come down to the fact that I'm better at rolling characters now... however, when participating in the various 'festivals' my ranger as an obvious different kill rate from any of the other player characters I see. Could be my slow finger speed on clickies, but I've noticed the difference time and again.

i have paragraphs and paragraphs of stuff to say about "kill rate" if you are primarily using the kill count to determine that. if you are just making eyeball dps comparisons, see above.

if you are a new player, let me definitively inform you that there are a lot of variables in literally every circumstance, scenario, and comparison that are relevant in determining outcomes of those things that you both do not know about and do not understand properly that trying to make determinations about this game like "rangers are bad" is both dumb and a waste of your time. a better response to a perceived lack of success with a character that is a ranger would be "i am not having very much success with my ranger." that is not however the end. you should be asking yourself "what can i be doing that i am not currently to have success on my ranger?" if you actually care about achieving that, then you will find and do those things.

my two quick and easy recommendations for improving your knowledge and ability as a player and also your character in the most efficient way:
1) read and post in the ranger subforum. make sure to ask questions so you get answers specifically tailored to give you exactly the information you want to know.
2) dont tr, take your ranger to cap and keep it there. tring is not a significant increase in power, and if you tr into a different class then you waste the learning experience of rangers you got from just being one. at cap you will get better gear (and get gear that is actually worth getting, as well as be in a better position to farm twink gear) and player with better and more knowledgeable players whom you should use as a learning resource. the game is more difficult at cap than anywhere else, so you will have to develop strategies and habits to be effective that arent necessary elsewhere, but will make you better at the entire game. you will also be in a position to etr (which can give some slightly meaningful increases in power) which will give you the redo on your character you seek without forcing you down to level 1.

[Paleus]

Okay, technically, my first toon was a dwarf cleric. I didn't like his not being able to open locks, chests, and not being able to do anything about traps. So I went looking and rolled me up a tempest trap monkey. I enjoyed playing him and I still do (hence lvl 18). But he takes effort to meander through quests on solo without getting killed. Plus I don't play any 'festivals' with him especially the Halloween ones or Pirates cove as his kill rate is just too low to make them worth while. Good thing I get these +3 hearts every now and then, so have an opportunity to 'tune' him. Like I said, all those nice trees with what seems like good things in them... experience has shown, are worthless. Like you say push to 20 and TR, stash great gear, start over, focus = better play.

Here's my recommendation, check out the following Ranger build:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/469213-quot-Strimtom-s-Acid-Arrow-quot-Maximum-Bow-DPS-F2P-new-player-Friendly

Everything listed in that post is true. I was promoted to Mega CEO of my company after trying out this build. And don't get me started about my problem with the men lately.

That said, your experience may show you that ranger is worthless, and honestly, that might be the case for you. Ranger just might not be the class for you. My experience, and the experience of people responding, is that ranger works well for us and doesn't need the fixes you're suggesting. So I'm wondering if it might just be that you haven't found the right ranger for you. You've mentioned playing a tempest trap monkey, and tweaking out builds up to 8 or 10 (which honestly isn't that far into a build's core power). A lot of people like tempest rangers, but myself I had more fun playing a pure ranged ranger like the build linked above than I did with a tempest. Maybe the same for you.

[Dragavon]

Maybe. But I said SEEM to suck, there's a difference. I've played about 20+ versions of one up to level 8 or 10 and then I kill them. Even after all that I still prefer the class. BTW I prefer 'ID 10T system error', if you don't mind.

Your heading for the thread is:

Elf Rangers seem to suck. Some ideas to fix.
So you did say elf rangers suck.

What people are saying is that they do not.

As for your suggestions, I do not see how they would change much. The "problem" with the racial trees are that they are weak, and you get more for your action points in other trees. If any change is needed then it is a boost to the racial trees, not changes to ranger trees.


There are no composite longbow/shortbow proficiencies in DDO. Only longbow and shortbow, and that covers all bows.

[Astoroth]

Okay, my first toon was selected to be a ranger elf with a level of rogue so he could open locks, disable traps, and have good survival capability. He is now level 18, meanwhile I recently started a warlock and she is quickly closing in on my ranger's level. Why? Because he sucks!

With the most recent opening of Lamania I tested a 'more specialized' version of my ranger (He has a number of feats I took because I thought they would enhance my enjoyment playing the character, this was obviously wrong, because he sucks. Ya gotta focus or so it would seem from the build forums.). So I focused the build and tested it. I found that Dex to hit/damage within the tempest/deep wood stalker line isn't as good as Int to hit/damage from the Harper line because of the weapon restriction (light). Sigh. Plus, he hits very softly even with a strength around 24. But, I have an idea on how to fix this, but you need to read more.


Quite a bit of piling as on, as per usual with these forums. The big issue with an elf ranger is there are too many noob traps in the build process, dex based, no prr, w/e. On top of it all there's no explanation of melee power or prr in character creation, or many of the other changes over the years. Warlock is sort of cookie cutter, in comparison. It's hard to mess one up. No one wants to be a gimp with a bad character, advocating tring, or re-rolling isn't really a valid solution to how flawed the game is right now. Read the forums or wiki for a few hours then try playing the game again; that's a horrible solution to present to a new/casual or returning player. Many such people won't be making that investment.

The current game has gone horribly wrong, where most successful builds are built around broken dynamics. And there's no reasonable way for new or less experienced people to know how to make good builds. And the devs chose to make reaper mode around over performing builds instead of balancing the game.

[NaturalHazard]

Okay, technically, my first toon was a dwarf cleric. I didn't like his not being able to open locks, chests, and not being able to do anything about traps. So I went looking and rolled me up a tempest trap monkey. I enjoyed playing him and I still do (hence lvl 18). But he takes effort to meander through quests on solo without getting killed. Plus I don't play any 'festivals' with him especially the Halloween ones or Pirates cove as his kill rate is just too low to make them worth while. Good thing I get these +3 hearts every now and then, so have an opportunity to 'tune' him. Like I said, all those nice trees with what seems like good things in them... experience has shown, are worthless. Like you say push to 20 and TR, stash great gear, start over, focus = better play.

Those festivals are mainly for AOE builds, ranger is better than most 2wf melees because of dance of death but come on, its well know, people even roll up AOE toons just for those events like warlock, you go afk with warlock for kills and mats.

[AMADHA]

Those festivals are mainly for AOE builds, ranger is better than most 2wf melees because of dance of death but come on, its well know, people even roll up AOE toons just for those events like warlock, you go afk with warlock for kills and mats.

I did not know that. Thanks, it explains a lot.

[AMADHA]

Quite a bit of piling as on, as per usual with these forums. [Agreed, almost every comment is about the 'first toon' rather than the changes proposed.]

The current game has gone horribly wrong, where most successful builds are built around broken dynamics. And there's no reasonable way for new or less experienced people to know how to make good builds. And the devs chose to make reaper mode around over performing builds instead of balancing the game.

Also, strongly agree. The 'formula' builds on creation are also, generally, terrible which leads to disappointment and bad experiences as well, rather than providing a positive first time learning/play experience. (Another reason I think Warlock should be a free class. But that's another post. :-)) Contrary to what seems popular belief, I do spend a lot of time reading the forums and looking up PRR and other definitions people toss around, but like you say that is no way for new or casual players like myself to have to spend their time in order to be reasonably successful actually playing the game. I used to play PnP D&D, you never had to know much to have a good time. You built players with skills and abilities you thought would be useful, or interested you, and most of the time they were. Not so with this game. For a "role-playing" game the "role" part is seriously lost.

[AMADHA]

My experience, and the experience of people responding, is that ranger works well for us and doesn't need the fixes you're suggesting. So I'm wondering if it might just be that you haven't found the right ranger for you.

I have rolled up a Strimtom's ranger and it did feel like it suited me and my play style better. (When Ranger 1 was first created the Tempest Trap Monkey was the best option available for what I wanted. I kept at it over the iterations of the game and levels, probably because I kind of like to finish things. <grin>) Since I play Solo mostly, for various reasons, I like having that rogue level. I find it fun. However, the gist I get from the forums that for an archer focused build missing the capstone isn't worth it. Sigh. So you are probably right, wrong type of ranger. (It might also be that Ranger 1 is an elf and almost every Tempest ranger build I see start Human, elf is a later 'adjustment' as is drow characters.)

Thanks for the feedback. BTW this is my last response. I have removed the original message.