What if there was a "mode/season" made to make non twinked toons popular?

[warioman91]

I appreciate this game, but moreso when it presents a decent challenge overall. Most people just run twinked toons who constantly have gear waiting on level, etc. (that and high level ship buffs make everything so very easy)

Now, the logistics and systems of setting an idea like this up can certainly be argued, but to have a system like this setup so its not simply something done out of some arbitrary self-imposed rule upon yourself like the Nuzlocke challenge in Pokemon would make it popular especially if there is some kind of reward for partaking in the act.

But basically when you make a toon or TR a toon(it would be far too splitting to the community to say only fresh toons could partake) you willingly opt into this mode and basically deny yourself trading or receiving items that have been on toons who are not flagged for this mode. What do we do about the TR cache? Idk... deny use of items from it and just lock it from the player? Only allow X items from it to be used?

Also presumably, but to some discomfort I'm sure, you would not be able to party with non flagged toons, or perhaps it would give you an immediate warning if you tried to join or someone did join your party, but you could proceed in joining them simply meaning you disqualify yourself from the mode in a sense... kind of like in ARPGS where you run a hardcore toon, if they die, then it becomes a softcore toon.

Obviously the problem with that is it is basically segregating the population to an extent. that's why I think it might be worth it as far as implementing something like this is you would do it "seasonally", like have a three week window or something to create new toons for this mode and let it go for a month or two. Then do it again in another few months. I'd say only to apply this mode for heroic purposes, and really the reward should totally be cosmetic or of title or something. If you are a slow player, and don't keep up with the "crowd", well then you can either keep chugging along probably by yourself or just forget the challenge and join back in with the general population.

Another consideration is guild buffs....
An idea since I don't think super high lvl buffs should simply be available(at least immediately) is let players of this mode make new *temporary* guilds that act slightly different for the purpose of this mode. Either they are free to make, or at a reduced cost for a charter. They progress much faster than regular guilds. they can have a designated "parent" guild(a normal longstanding guild presumably) such that at the end of this "season"(or perhaps at the same time), experience earned with this temporary guild will go into the parent guild.


any thoughts in general, or just regarding general difficulty of the game (or what it once was before everyone was twinked and ship buffs were aplenty)?
Looking for a discussion on the whole matter if people are interested.

[SiliconScout]

I appreciate this game, but moreso when it presents a decent challenge overall. Most people just run twinked toons who constantly have gear waiting on level, etc. (that and high level ship buffs make everything so very easy)

Now, the logistics and systems of setting an idea like this up can certainly be argued, but to have a system like this setup so its not simply something done out of some arbitrary self-imposed rule upon yourself like the Nuzlocke challenge in Pokemon would make it popular especially if there is some kind of reward for partaking in the act.

But basically when you make a toon or TR a toon(it would be far too splitting to the community to say only fresh toons could partake) you willingly opt into this mode and basically deny yourself trading or receiving items that have been on toons who are not flagged for this mode. What do we do about the TR cache? Idk... deny use of items from it and just lock it from the player? Only allow X items from it to be used?

Also presumably, but to some discomfort I'm sure, you would not be able to party with non flagged toons, or perhaps it would give you an immediate warning if you tried to join or someone did join your party, but you could proceed in joining them simply meaning you disqualify yourself from the mode in a sense... kind of like in ARPGS where you run a hardcore toon, if they die, then it becomes a softcore toon.

Obviously the problem with that is it is basically segregating the population to an extent. that's why I think it might be worth it as far as implementing something like this is you would do it "seasonally", like have a three week window or something to create new toons for this mode and let it go for a month or two. Then do it again in another few months. I'd say only to apply this mode for heroic purposes, and really the reward should totally be cosmetic or of title or something. If you are a slow player, and don't keep up with the "crowd", well then you can either keep chugging along probably by yourself or just forget the challenge and join back in with the general population.

Another consideration is guild buffs....
An idea since I don't think super high lvl buffs should simply be available(at least immediately) is let players of this mode make new *temporary* guilds that act slightly different for the purpose of this mode. Either they are free to make, or at a reduced cost for a charter. They progress much faster than regular guilds. they can have a designated "parent" guild(a normal longstanding guild presumably) such that at the end of this "season"(or perhaps at the same time), experience earned with this temporary guild will go into the parent guild.


any thoughts in general, or just regarding general difficulty of the game (or what it once was before everyone was twinked and ship buffs were aplenty)?
Looking for a discussion on the whole matter if people are interested.

My guildies did some con dumped sorcs. Went so far as to take a couple levels of monk to drop con in as well as as a bloodrage Symbiont (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Bloodrage_Symbiont) and a con cursed item. Our rule was no equipment or spells that granted CON or HP. Basically we had a 2 Con and kept it there and 2 or 3 manned everything.

Had 36 HP at level 20 and it was a bit of work to get there Especially because we elite streaked the whole thing. It was really tough, and a hell of a challenge but we did it. There's something amazing when you are capped at 20 and people see your HP when you join a group.

Seriously it was tough, a glancing blow could kill you. Granted we had blur, displacement, stoneskin but that was about it. I could pump it up to about 140 @20 with gear if I needed to but really it was a 1 hit and you die situaion so I can say it really honed those "Active combat" skills! LOL

As for this idea, I understand and sympathise where you are coming from but the time required to design and maintain this system vs the likely number using it more than 6 months after it was out just wouldn't pay off and you risk fracturing the servers even more than they already are. That said adding essentially 10 more difficulty levels with Reaper coming soon is going to make that a **** show anyway so I think that is less of a concern.

I think the Dev time would be better spent on polish and an overall re-fit of systems and quests to align the multitude of systems this game has to try and tighten things up and better position them to add new quality content.

[Jasparion]

This sort of thing should be player driven, not use up developer time.

Set yourself a challenge, as the poster above did. Be happy if you succeed.

[Miahoo]

My guildies did some con dumped sorcs. Went so far as to take a couple levels of monk to drop con in as well as as a bloodrage Symbiont (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Bloodrage_Symbiont) and a con cursed item. Our rule was no equipment or spells that granted CON or HP. Basically we had a 2 Con and kept it there and 2 or 3 manned everything.

Had 36 HP at level 20 and it was a bit of work to get there Especially because we elite streaked the whole thing. It was really tough, and a hell of a challenge but we did it. There's something amazing when you are capped at 20 and people see your HP when you join a group.

Seriously it was tough, a glancing blow could kill you. Granted we had blur, displacement, stoneskin but that was about it. I could pump it up to about 140 @20 with gear if I needed to but really it was a 1 hit and you die situaion so I can say it really honed those "Active combat" skills! LOL

As for this idea, I understand and sympathise where you are coming from but the time required to design and maintain this system vs the likely number using it more than 6 months after it was out just wouldn't pay off and you risk fracturing the servers even more than they already are. That said adding essentially 10 more difficulty levels with Reaper coming soon is going to make that a **** show anyway so I think that is less of a concern.

I think the Dev time would be better spent on polish and an overall re-fit of systems and quests to align the multitude of systems this game has to try and tighten things up and better position them to add new quality content.

That's awesome.

/Win

[NaturalHazard]

Not worth the time for the return, just do what silicon scout did, we are getting 10 levels of reaper to add to the 4 difficulty levels............

[NaturalHazard]

My guildies did some con dumped sorcs. Went so far as to take a couple levels of monk to drop con in as well as as a bloodrage Symbiont (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Bloodrage_Symbiont) and a con cursed item. Our rule was no equipment or spells that granted CON or HP. Basically we had a 2 Con and kept it there and 2 or 3 manned everything.

Had 36 HP at level 20 and it was a bit of work to get there Especially because we elite streaked the whole thing. It was really tough, and a hell of a challenge but we did it. There's something amazing when you are capped at 20 and people see your HP when you join a group.

Seriously it was tough, a glancing blow could kill you. Granted we had blur, displacement, stoneskin but that was about it. I could pump it up to about 140 @20 with gear if I needed to but really it was a 1 hit and you die situaion so I can say it really honed those "Active combat" skills! LOL

As for this idea, I understand and sympathise where you are coming from but the time required to design and maintain this system vs the likely number using it more than 6 months after it was out just wouldn't pay off and you risk fracturing the servers even more than they already are. That said adding essentially 10 more difficulty levels with Reaper coming soon is going to make that a **** show anyway so I think that is less of a concern.

I think the Dev time would be better spent on polish and an overall re-fit of systems and quests to align the multitude of systems this game has to try and tighten things up and better position them to add new quality content.

wish you took it to 30 so you could join someones LE shroud with sub 100 hps lol.

[cru121]

no need for dev support here
create / join a permadeath / static group with rules that you want

[Pyed-Pyper]

There are a number of social problems associated with an intentionally gimped build. Current in-game support/solutions are essentially limited to explaining the 'rules' in your bio, and/or LFM comments, and more permanently, grouping (static groups, guilds).

It would be nice to have some preset categories defined in the game so that things such as grouping would be made easier. A few examples of categories I can think of:
naked (limited to only what you find in quests)
gimp (3 randomly chosen classes)
pre-MotU (no EDs, s/s/s epic gear)
points/life build (28 pt 1st life, vet II etc)

If these categories were pre-defined, then filters could be added to the social panel. Getting the categories defined would at first glance appear to be the biggest hurdle. Getting any sort of official support at the beginning seems unlikely. And with the current state of the game, I just cannot see how resources would be expended for that. My suggestion would be to advertise for a new guild in the appropriate forum and see what happens. (Maybe name it Gimps R Us if it isn't already taken.)

[AzB]

You can play the game any way you want. You don't need rules telling you that you can or can't use the AH to buy gear along the way, or that you can or can't use ship buffs. You can simply make the choice. There are even static groups and guilds that play with these ideals, and many other ways to play that you may not have even thought of.

A while back, some old friends and I decided to start with brand new toons, make them flavor based instead of FoTM based, and we agreed to use only what we find... no AH, no pawn shop, no hand me downs from other players. We also agree to no ship buffs.

It is indeed quite a challenge to quest this way, and it required a great deal more teamwork, patience, and skill. But it was also a lot of fun, our other uber characters mostly gathering dust while we played.

That's one of the reasons I think reaper is so silly. You can make the challenge yourself if you really want it. Reaper is literally just going to 11. Because it's 11.

[Cantor]

I've done first life, no twink gear, no AP, etc. You can make the challenge if you try.

But, that doesn't mean that the game providing challenge for the the best you can put out is not a good thing. Sometimes you want to see what you can do with your best (not with self imposed limits).

I think it would be cool to have a permadeath server. Maybe with a free server transfer when you die, that character is a ghost with inventory locked until transfer.
People have suggested pre-motu legacy servers. There are lots of great ideas, but not sure if resources and populations support them.

[Avantasian]

"Seasons" works really well in other games, I don't see why it would not work well here too.

[SiliconScout]

I think the main issue is population.

Is "Seasons" optional? Then good luck getting a lot of people to step off their main and run an alt. The majority seem to have much less ALTitis than they used to. Sure they might pile in the first time to try but like our other events they will tire of it as soon as they get what they want, and as described it would just be a different set of rules. So they will pop in try it, most will pop back out and go back to their main.

Is "Seasons" mandatory? Well then be prepared to see players "take a break" until it's over and every time they "take a break" some don't find their way back. Just look at what the lag issue did to an already anemic population.

Either way the player base is simply too small to support multiple types of games. Heck I can't remember the last time I had to tell someone what instance of the market place I was in so they could catch up.. hint, hint it's because there is only 1 instance.

Finally I simply don't have the faith in the dev team to be able to manipulate the rules around gear without either losing gear or messing it up. Out of the gate history says that will be a cluster**** that will eventually get better if they keep working it.

In the end I fear this would be like the Mimic event. Something that sounded like fun, absorbed some Dev time, got rolled out once and would never be seen again.

[LightBear]

There are quests that have those rolling over the floor half orbs (like center area of ADQ) that have a dispel effect on you if they touch you.

I think there are also some places where there is a general dispel effect or mana drain.


...but players try to avoid those places. ;)

[Enoach]

Player rules are best managed at the player level. I say this because even with our current population you won't get people to agree about the rules.

This is why there are multiple Permadeath Groups, G.I.M.P. groups and other sub groups in DDO.

I think it best that DDO development concentrate on things that will apply to all users of the game and let players handle their own subsets.

As a Note I'm currently playing with a group using the G.I.M.P. (AKA Get Into Multiclass Playing) rules. We have modified from base rules to meet our groups needs. Such as we are not first life characters. One player limited their class rolls to classes they have never played (they are working on Completionest). So as you can see a strict rules system on something that is player driven by development would not work.

[Lonnbeimnech]

There are already 2 modes for non twinked toons; normal and casual.

As far as only being able to use items you find along the way. The game is already like that. When I take my sword of shadows out of my TR cache, it's because along the way, I got that item.