Artificers and Trap Panels

[Igrovin]

I've got an Artificer with 18 int, and full ranks in search. He can find traps (The little heads that spit elements, blade slots etc), but he can't ever seem to find the panel to disarm it.
A Rogue of the same level with full ranks and 14 int however /can/ find the trap panels. Both are level 4.

What am I doing wrong with my artificer?

[skorpeon]

I've got an Artificer with 18 int, and full ranks in search. He can find traps (The little heads that spit elements, blade slots etc), but he can't ever seem to find the panel to disarm it.
A Rogue of the same level with full ranks and 14 int however /can/ find the trap panels. Both are level 4.

What am I doing wrong with my artificer?

I would normally equip a search skill item also, Normally need Int item and a search item. Also pots with heroism can help finding stuff.

Also then an item for disable device. Usually it means having to swap item around a bit which can be a pain.

Also make sure you not confusing Spot for Search? Two different things

Note also the boxes are often on the other side of traps, so having good trap evasion skills is important.

Noted I play rogues normally but there should be no difference

[DYWYPI]

It's hard to tell why you aren't finding the trap Control Panels (other than maybe not having enough Search DC). Albeit the Rogue might have other Feats, or have Spent AP that increases their Search DC or be drinking potions like Heroism to temporarily boost their skills or abilities (or ship buffs). Else more than likely, that Rogue was just simply using/wearing better "Search" boosting equipment. Like was mentioned; you also need to be close enough to the Trap's Control panel to detect the "box", so maybe move your position slightly.

You'll need the following Search DCs
Level 2 Elite: Search DC: 12
Level 3 Elite: Search DC: 15
Level 4 Elite: Search DC: 17

As a general rule for heroic [F2P] quests for Elite difficulty the 'Spot and Search' DCs tend to increase by either: +2 or +3 DC per quest level. There are odd exceptions to the rule but that is the pattern they tend to follow.

Most of the DDO Wiki heroic F2P quest Spot/Search for DCs [Hard/Elite] values for "traps", are up-to-date, since I added most of them them. You might find the following useful:
http://ddowiki.com/page/DDO_information_project/Spot_and_Search

[Livmo]

I've got an Artificer with 18 int, and full ranks in search. He can find traps (The little heads that spit elements, blade slots etc), but he can't ever seem to find the panel to disarm it.
A Rogue of the same level with full ranks and 14 int however /can/ find the trap panels. Both are level 4.

What am I doing wrong with my artificer?

Search and Disable Device are based on INT. You have to use Search to find the trap box and Disable Device to disarm it.

Spot only alerts to danger and does not find trap boxes. Spot is based on WIS. I typically ditch spot, because I already know where most trap boxes are in the game and know where to go to Search them out. Plus I'm a zergr and don't mind finding traps with my face.

Open lock is based on DEX.

I always keep my INT maxed, because it affects Search and Disable Device. Can't disarm the trap if you cannot find it.

[Enderoc]

If your spot is low you can't sonar in on traps or trap boxes. If you aren't getting the warning for traps after you spotted the trap devices...you either need to move around, find better gear, or do anything to get your spot up... Wisdom items and in the very least owls pots will help as well.

If you are getting the warning and still can't see the control panels... You need better search gear, flat out.

[Tscheuss]

I've got an Artificer with 18 int, and full ranks in search. He can find traps (The little heads that spit elements, blade slots etc), but he can't ever seem to find the panel to disarm it.
A Rogue of the same level with full ranks and 14 int however /can/ find the trap panels. Both are level 4.

What am I doing wrong with my artificer?

What are the Search levels of the two? Does the rogue have better Search gear, feats, enhancements, or buffs?

[Livmo]

If you are getting the warning and still can't see the control panels... You need better search gear, flat out.

I go for gear that maximizes my INT ability score and my skills (i.e. Search and Disable Device). I like hats or helms form INT ability item and googles for Search and Disable Device (lootgen).

Same concepts apply to WIS/Spot and DEX/Open Lock regarding gear.

[Igrovin]

I would normally equip a search skill item also, Normally need Int item and a search item. Also pots with heroism can help finding stuff.

Also then an item for disable device. Usually it means having to swap item around a bit which can be a pain.

Also make sure you not confusing Spot for Search? Two different things

Note also the boxes are often on the other side of traps, so having good trap evasion skills is important.

Noted I play rogues normally but there should be no difference

Nope, not confusing Spot/Search.

Both characters ran to a spot where there was a trap (The ice trap in the one where you have to get the smuggler gems back) A rouge, I used search. Found the trap panel and the head. As an artificer it found only the head.

The artificer has a search of 11
The Rogue has a search of 9.

[Enoach]

Nope, not confusing Spot/Search.

Both characters ran to a spot where there was a trap (The ice trap in the one where you have to get the smuggler gems back) A rouge, I used search. Found the trap panel and the head. As an artificer it found only the head.

The artificer has a search of 11
The Rogue has a search of 9.

Lets break this down...

First you claim that both have Full Ranks in search.
4 Ranks at First Level
3 Ranks (Levels 2, 3, 4)
-
7 Ranks is the base

Next
4 from 18 Intelligence Artificer
2 from 14 Intelligence Rogue

Based on this you are providing us only with the Ranks + Attribute Modifier ( 7 + 4 = 11 Artificer and 7 + 2 = 9 Rogue)

As others have pointed out you are not including:

Buffs - Boosts to skills which can include a rogues Action Boost
Buffs - that add luck bonus or buffs like heroism
Buffs - the improve attribute modifiers
Gear - Search item that boosts search
Enhancements that improve skills


If neither has gear then my bet would be that the rogue is using a skill boost or has purchased enhancements that boost their search skill.

The thing to ask is not how many ranks are in a skill but what is the current total skill, this will let you see the difference in why the Rogue can find a trap and you cannot.

----------
As a note, you can purchase scrolls of Trap Finding with UMD this will add a stacking Search bonus that improves over a +1 due to the Artificer's Scroll Level Bonus

[Igrovin]

Lets break this down...

First you claim that both have Full Ranks in search.
4 Ranks at First Level
3 Ranks (Levels 2, 3, 4)
-
7 Ranks is the base

Next
4 from 18 Intelligence Artificer
2 from 14 Intelligence Rogue

Based on this you are providing us only with the Ranks + Attribute Modifier ( 7 + 4 = 11 Artificer and 7 + 2 = 9 Rogue)

As others have pointed out you are not including:

Buffs - Boosts to skills which can include a rogues Action Boost
Buffs - that add luck bonus or buffs like heroism
Buffs - the improve attribute modifiers
Gear - Search item that boosts search
Enhancements that improve skills


If neither has gear then my bet would be that the rogue is using a skill boost or has purchased enhancements that boost their search skill.

The thing to ask is not how many ranks are in a skill but what is the current total skill, this will let you see the difference in why the Rogue can find a trap and you cannot.

----------
As a note, you can purchase scrolls of Trap Finding with UMD this will add a stacking Search bonus that improves over a +1 due to the Artificer's Scroll Level Bonus

Well that is because there is no gear, feats, or enhancements on either character that increase their search skill. The rogue was built to be an assassin than a traptoucher, and has all its focus towards dealing damage. So not using a skill boost either.

[Enderoc]

Range also comes into effect. I noticed with a higher search the range I can find the traps increases it seemed. Maybe higher spot gives a hidden bonus to search? In real life that would be feasible. Just thinking to myself not with any real evidence to this. Maybe spot increases the range for search? Dunno. Most likely not.

[Enoach]

Well that is because there is no gear, feats, or enhancements on either character that increase their search skill. The rogue was built to be an assassin than a traptoucher, and has all its focus towards dealing damage. So not using a skill boost either.

Lets see if I can be a little bit more clear.

There is nothing that innate to Rogue at Level 4 that it having a -2 to Search to the Artificer that would allow it to find a Trap box that an Artificer of higher search skill cannot.

Ok now that I've cleared that up, what that means is the Rogue has a Higher Search than the Artificer. That means they have something that is boosting their search more than 2 points over the Artificer.

It could be just about anything so the question comes down to what is the "real" search skill value which is more than the Ranks + Int Modifier.

[Nandos]

What is the race of your Artificer and what was the race of the Rogue? Some races get a search bonus. Check your racial enhancement tree. You may be able to buy a bonus to search or a skill boost enhancement which would help greatly.

[Tscheuss]

What is the race of your Artificer and what was the race of the Rogue? Some races get a search bonus. Check your racial enhancement tree. You may be able to buy a bonus to search or a skill boost enhancement which would help greatly.

Drow and Elf both get +2 Listen, Spot, Search, but that would only tie the Artie if the Rogue were and the Artie weren't.

What about Troubleshooter from Korthos?

ETA: Any past lives? Ironically, Artie past lives would give a Rogue up to +3 Int skills and UMD. :)

[DYWYPI]

So the quest you were running would have been; Level 2: The Smuggler's Warehouse (no higher than Hard setting), if the Search (at the time of the actual Search attempt check animation) was only 9 and succeeded.

Searching for trap Control Boxes is usually a simple DC check; you either have enough Search skills [DC] or don't. For example: one guy with their "active 10 Search attempt" will not find the Control Box for a Box that requires DC:12 Search regardless of class. Because there is no dice roll involved for a Search attempt.

So at the 'exact point' of the Search Skills check; a Character would have to have at least Search Skills equal to Search DC required for the Control Box. The Search skill can be temporarily boosted as explained prior via: spells, ship buffs, buffs, potions, skills boosts, feats, enhancements, or equipping Search boosting equipment.

The Rogue certainly did not find the trap Control Panel if its Search [attempt] was below the trap DC; the Artificer uncovered the trap itself (by the locked cage-like door). That suggests the Artificer had an active Search attempt of about; 1 or 2 DC lower than needed to find the Control Panel (so only revealed the trap the nozzles).